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Canadian Record Industry Presses ISPs in Court

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the squeeze-play dept.

The Courts 247

An anonymous reader writes "'Internet service providers have neither an obligation nor, in some cases, the technical means to help the recording industry identify 29 alleged music pirates, a federal judge heard yesterday.' The article continues, 'Shaw Cable, the most defiant company among the pack, poked holes in CRIA's case and accused the music industry of planning an extended fishing expedition for the purpose of forcing individuals into costly settlements before cases ever get to trial. This is the same strategy used by sister organization the Recording Industry Association of America, lawyers argued.'"

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omg frist post? lol bare pwnt U!! LLOZLZ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553918)

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Um EDITORS? (0, Offtopic)

dsanfte (443781) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554038)

Can you not do an IP address block on this crap? When is it EVER on-topic? How about a nice filter to catch any AC posts in the first 30 (some arbitrary number) comments on a thread on a story, and reject them?

Great way to get people modding when they have to wade through this racist bullshit.

Re:Um EDITORS? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554054)

ahhhahhahahhahhahahahhahhahhahha dumb fuck. hahahahhahhahahahahahahhahhahahh

Re:Um EDITORS? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554064)

Can you not do an IP address block on this crap?

Umm... hello? Dynamic IP addresses anyone?

Great way to get people modding when they have to wade through this racist bullshit

And how do you know it isn't really being posted by homosexual African-Americans? Who made you the arbiter of racism?

YOU FAIL IT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554093)

Dear Editors:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAH!

ps: fuck you

Sincerely,
Everyone Who Matters

# Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal. FRESNO, California (CNN) -- Police found a pile of nine bodies -- seven of them children -- in the Fresno, California, home of a man police believe is the father of the victims. Fresno police were responding to a domestic disturbance call Friday afternoon when they found the bodies. Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.They said Marcus Wesson, 57, who lived at the house, was taken into police custody Friday afternoon after a short standoff. Wesson is the chief suspect, according to police, but as of late Friday he had not been charged. Ten empty wooden caskets stacked one on top of the other were found at the front of the house, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said.LENOIR CITY, Tennessee (AP) -- The teenage son of a prosecutor killed a sheriff's deputy and barricaded himself in his home before he was found dead inside Saturday with an apparently self-inflicted gunshot to the head, officials said. Michael Harvey, 16, was found in an upstairs bedroom of his lakeside home, said Loudon County Sheriff Tim Guider. He said the teenager had been dead for up to 20 hours.

ror (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554241)

The mods have failed it
Moderation is for fags
Choke on a big cock

Re:Um EDITORS? (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554167)

The parent is right, this spamming is stupid, but you are all AC for a good reason, mainly for the "C" part.

I'm Not Canadian, Thank God (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553920)

So how does this story affect 'My Rights Online'??

Damn slashdot editors think your rights are the same everywhere.

Re:I'm Not Canadian, Thank God (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553943)

Wait - I'm Canadian, but all your damn US stories about your rights count as "your rights online", even though they don't affect me.

Re:I'm Not Canadian, Thank God (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554027)

How about you go jump off a nice high cliff, and you can enjoy all the online rights that a bloody, broken corpse is afforded.

Re:I'm Not Canadian, Thank God (4, Insightful)

orthogonal (588627) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554363)

So how does this story affect 'My Rights Online'??

Damn slashdot editors think your rights are the same everywhere.


Because a precedent created anywhere -- but especially in Western democracies -- will be used as justification for the same legislation or rulings elsewhere.

It's a matter of record that on controversial issues, one nation's courts or legislatures will look to what is the prevailing opinion in other democracies -- witness some of the U.S. Supreme Court's various opinion on capital punishment, some of which make reference to the prevailing climate of opinion in Europe.

And it's not mere coincidence that the European Union and Australia is passing laws that look a lot like the DMCA; given world-wide trade, one nation will pressure another nation to bring its laws into conformance with the first's, or into conformance with some international treaty.

So wherever the bell tolls, whether in Canada or Germany or your own homeland, the bell tolls for you. It's in my direct interest to see that my neighbors' rights are secured in their countries, so as to provide a good example to the legislators and judges in my own country.

FP FOR GNAA (-1, Offtopic)

James A. J. Joyce (759969) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553921)

bares fails it hard, est/wrt/rolloffle pwns him

Go UK!

An (almost) happy Shaw customer (5, Funny)

m0nkyman (7101) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553924)

Makes me almost happy to put up with Shaw's mediocre mail servers.
GO SHAW!

Re:An (almost) happy Shaw customer (5, Funny)

Intocabile (532593) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553959)

Real pirates use shaws amazing Usenet server. Arrr.

Re:An (almost) happy Shaw customer (0)

Almond Tree (741341) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553995)

I'm looking for an anonymous isp server ... huh? ... what?...isp, ftp - bah! What's the difference!

Re:An (almost) happy Shaw customer (3, Interesting)

0racle (667029) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554052)

Ya I'm not sure how to feel either. On one hand the support sucks and in recent months I've had outages lasting from 6 hours to 3 days. On the other hand, they seem to actually care about things.

I'm so confused.

Re:An (almost) happy Shaw customer (4, Insightful)

Curtman (556920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554412)

Makes me almost happy to put up with Shaw's mediocre mail servers

Trust me, as a former Shaw customer, and current MTS ADSL [www.mts.ca] customer, their mail servers could be a LOT worse. LOTS worse. My guess is spam probably has a whole lot to do with the situation, but the mail server here goes down for an average of 2 hours per day, and at times its been down for several days straight.

130 KB/s down and 20 up is terrible compared to what I used to get with Shaw too.

Shaw! I've learned my lesson! I'll be coming back soon!

Ouch (5, Interesting)

Rick Zeman (15628) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553931)

Shaw lawyer Charles Scott, of Lax O'Sullivan Scott, said the cable company has a duty to protect the privacy of its customers, not to become a "private investigator" for the music industry by being forced, at its own expense, to analyze and hand over subscriber information

I can hear the next argument: "Hand all of your data over and we'll analyze it...."

Unlikely (2, Insightful)

Hal The Computer (674045) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554088)

The plantiffs (recording industry) would probably not be able ot show the judge that there are reasonable grounds for them to be able to anyalyze records of indivduals that are not associated with the lawsuit. If you are involved in a personal injury lawsuit, you can't subpoena the hospitals entire patient file.
Canada also has a privacy law [privcom.gc.ca] .

Re:Unlikely (2, Interesting)

Rick Zeman (15628) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554218)

The plantiffs (recording industry) would probably not be able ot show the judge that there are reasonable grounds for them to be able to anyalyze records of indivduals that are not associated with the lawsuit. If you are involved in a personal injury lawsuit, you can't subpoena the hospitals entire patient file.

I didn't say it was a valid argument, just a possible counter-argument. To play devil's advocate, what if in your hypothetical personal injury the only information known is that it was Patient 0149381?

Retreat and regroup (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553933)

This battlefront is already lost.

It's better to retreat and regroup. You can't win a battle or even a fight against the corporate monsters as long as there is no government willing to rein in their reign of terror.

Remember, don't vote for the republicrats in November. Vote for Nader!

WTF are you smoking? This is CANADA, moron (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553955)

Did you bother to RTFA, or even the summary?

Thought not.

US legislation == world legislation, thank WTO (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553982)

I did read it.

Why do you think the US legislation will not be implemented elsewhere.

AFAIK, Canada and Europe already have their draconian DMCA copies. Am right?

This story has nothing to do with DMCA, WTO, or US (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553986)

So please take the crack out of you bong.

MOD ABUSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554058)

How is this a troll? Other people have said the same thing. Canada does not have the same laws as the US.

Why would anyone want to censor this?

Re:US legislation == world legislation, thank WTO (2, Informative)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554042)

Canada and Europe already have their draconian DMCA copies. Am right?

No.

Re:Retreat and regroup (3, Interesting)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554028)

No ... any good strategist will tell you, don't let your enemy have anything for free. Make him pay for it. These industry groups have only the legal tools that government grants them, and they've only gotten those because there was no organized resistance. Keep the pressure on: don't let them take anything from you without a hard fight. Shaw is taking the proper stance, because once a precedent is set it's that much harder to correct later.

Re:Retreat and regroup (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554044)

Vote for Nader!

And vote for four more years for King George?

What the hell are you smoking?

Canada - Land of the free? (4, Informative)

Zone-MR (631588) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553934)

Seems canada's status as the new land of the free [slashdot.org] may have been short-lived.

Re:Canada - Land of the free? (4, Informative)

c_oflynn (649487) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553956)

Actually they are suing uploaders ONLY - they have no legal ground to sue downloaders.

Re:Canada - Land of the free? (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553973)

Who cares I'm ashamed of my country for this. And after we handled the whole 9-11 crapshoot so well. Jeeze :(

Re:Canada - Land of the free? (0, Troll)

Innominandum (453982) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553966)

I don't see why Canada was ever considered "Land Of The Free" by any means. Free speech was never protected here. The only reason why the record industry hasn't acted more aggressively is because the market is comparatively small.

wrong (5, Informative)

dsanfte (443781) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554013)

From the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, passed in 1982:

Fundamental freedoms


2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.


So yes, we do indeed have freedom of speech, and it is protected.

Re:wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554026)

Is this in your constitution, or just a law?

Re:wrong (2, Informative)

dsanfte (443781) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554057)

It's part of the Constitution Act. So yeah, it's in our constitution.

Re:wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554071)

Cool.

Re:wrong (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554094)

Well, since Google is apparently too difficult for you to use, allow me to enlighten you.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is our constitution. It was signed into law by King Pierre in 1982, shortly before he was assassinated by Joe Clarke. Clarke enjoyed a breif stint as PM (kinda like a president, only with complete power), until he was dethroned by Brian the Black. Brian tried his best to destroy the will of the Canadian people, and he was deposed in a bloody coup lead by Jean Cretien. (Brian actually escaped the coup with his life, by setting up Kim Campbell as a puppet PM, just before the revolution.)

Wrong again... (1)

Innominandum (453982) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554063)

Many laws have been passed since then that undermine the Charter Of Rights. Even if one was to agree with their intent, they are very broadly worded and could be used for other purposes.

See the Canadian Human Rights Act (articles 12 & 13). There was another one that supposedly dealt with child pornography. It was even worse, "child pornography" wasn't even mentioned in the bill. I'll see if I can find a link.

Re:wrong (2, Interesting)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554068)

Of course the controversial anti-hate speech laws have some effect on this..

Basically, you can say whatever you want until someone considers it "hate speech", and then there is a good chance that you will not be allowed to say it.

Holocaust deniers can not claim that the Holocaust did not happen, here in Canada.

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion..

Re:wrong (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554231)

They had a tough time even taking that creep Zundel to court on that one. I forget if they even got a conviction. Hopefully it'll be easier to boot his sorry ass out of the country. Guess not. [globeandmail.com]

If it were that easy to abuse that law, $cientology would have had critics in jail years ago.

Re:wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554272)

that's the funniest thing ive heard in a while...though it might be true on paper, just take a look at the CRTC in quebec, which is becoming the politicians' censor tool of choice - freedom of speech my arse.

OMG PRESS TEH ANAL S3X0R!!!!1one (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553937)

Not a usual pirate activity... (5, Funny)

BlueCodeWarrior (638065) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553939)

Well, they're obviously wrong.

Pirates don't go fishing, they go pillaging.

judge:NEXT!

Re:Not a usual pirate activity... (1)

Gunsmithy (554829) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554105)

Pirates fish, you cur! When they're out on the poop deck, without any supplies, what would any salty sea dog eat?

Fish, of course!

Words for the wise (3, Funny)

Hal The Computer (674045) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554107)

Always remember:

Pillage first, then burn.

We all know what happens next, don't we? (5, Funny)

James A. J. Joyce (759969) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553963)

ISP: "Look, it's not our job to scour our reams of data just so you can make up some dirt on our customers."
RIAA: "You're right...guess you'd better hand it over to us."
ISP: "No."
Court: "Yes."
ISP: "Fuck."

I like ending "C" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554170)

Haha.

Maybe it's more like:

ISP: Uh..no, that's expensive.
Court: That seems reasonable.
ISP (as voice over monologue): These jackasses are stupid and have deep pockets, and this is a reasource only we can provide. *manical laughter*
[cue thunderclap]
RIAA Lawyer1 (to RIAA Lawyer2): Why is he grinning and rubbing his hands together? Oh my God, are his teeth shaved into points?!

Re:We all know what happens next, don't we? (1)

Oopsz (127422) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554328)

There are privacy laws. They can't hand over the entire directory because a few might be guilty. Subpoenas have to be explicit.

That's great, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553967)

I'm on rogers, the problem is it seems they don't let you download from P2P or from their news servers. They shut your service off if you do.

Re:That's great, but... (1)

GrassMunk (677765) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554279)

Not only will they shut you off but they wont tell you specifically WHY they shut you off. Just that you were 'abusing the system' and 'hindering others access to the service'. So technically you can use all the p2p you want you'll just get trashed when you use up the oh so big pipe they have for you and 21 of your neighbours.

hm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8553974)

Well this guarantees I'll never subscribe to Videotron when I go back to Montreal. In fact, I'm going to try to convince my parents to switch over to Bell.

Small ISP (0)

duck_oil (645053) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553980)

This is one of the few times I'm happy to be with a small ISP. The service is crummy (I'm technically out of range) but the price is right for uncapped speed (3 Mbit) @ $40 mo. Plus I feel pretty safe from this legal battle (not that I've anything to hide that is).

Re:Small ISP (5, Insightful)

detritus` (32392) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553997)

Actually being on a small ISP leaves you way more open to harrassment by the various authorities, as your ISP probably doesnt have the legal funds or will to fight off the large well bankrolled organizations such as the CRIA. At least large companies like Shaw, Telus, etc. already have a plethora of lawyers just chomping at the bit to fight any legal challenges

Re:Small ISP (0)

duck_oil (645053) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554053)

Crap. Well, at least I used to "feel" safe. I suppose you're right. Of course, the chances of the CRIA going after an ISP this small seems pretty slim to me, but if they did, I'm sure they wouldn't put up much of a fight.

I've always wondered.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554337)

what would happen if the mom and pop shops just started crying "wolf". Run a more politically active "home" page that focuses on local politics with plenty of contact information (city, county, state) and good links to government reasources. Then everytime they get a threatening lawsuit, go off on their page, let their customers know their "privacy is being threatened." Make it political rather than commercial. Call up newspapers, tv stations, make an effort to know their customers well enough that they can use them to shape their business and community image. Offer up a typical p2p user for the company, a highly skilled technical professional with a fancy .com chair who uses it for hosting and obtaining iso's of open source programs, etc. Practically libel and slander the company under the protection of it being your clearly presented opinion of them. Talk about how the evil mega-corporations are trying to force them out of business so they can outsource jobs to India and provide less services for more money while they police all your activities on line, and sell the information to spammers.

If they didn't go too far off into space with the rhetoric, and ran their company so that it was reliable and responsive to its customers, I would bet it would be bulletproof. Slapped with a lawsuit just short of barratry? Get the community to demand the state's attorney general slap back. Who knows a trade association representing just such businesses might have a surprising amount of clout.

Hell, if a state attorney general just held a press conference and said that they'd think the record companies seeking to intimidate people into settling frivilous lawsuits should face a proportunate risk, and put up 10% of their gross profits against the 10% gross their asking of the average [insert state here] family, I'm sure at least a few suits would need changing.

"Haliburton is stealing your freedom for pennies on the dollar!" plays well at 5' 6' and 11'.

Maybe its just me (3, Insightful)

An-Unnecessarily-Lon (761026) | more than 10 years ago | (#8553998)

But is there not a right to privacy? If the RIAA can spy onto your shared folder is that not the same as looking into your house or mail? Are those rights not protected by the law? Lawyer Help me out

Re:Maybe its just me (1)

SigveK (545403) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554067)

if you're folder is shared on any p2p network, anyone on the network can see it...

Re:Maybe its just me (3, Insightful)

dartmouth05 (540493) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554131)

You have a right to privacy, of course, but not when it comes to your shared folder. Why? Because it is shared.

This is very different from looking into one's home or mail. I am no RIAA apologist, but I certainly wouldn't fault them for looking at shared folders on P2P services and the like. When you share a folder, you've made the contents open and available to be downloaded or looked at by anybody.

It's the equivelent of putting a big sign in front of your house saying "Come in, one and all", or opening your mail and tacking it on a bulletin board. In the first example, anyone could walk right in, and in the second, anyone could step right up and read your mail. Why? Because you've made your house and mail public.

The same logic holds true with a shared folder--by sharing it, you've made it public.

Do we have a right to Privacy on the Internet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554294)

Is it?

How about when you go browsing for pr0n. Any page request you make goes through your ISP. (Unless you use an anonymous proxy, but how many people do?) Your ISP probably logs every page you view. Anyone on your local hub could easily tell what nasty perverted filth you're into by using a packet sniffer. If your neighbor or your ISP came knocking on your door and handed your significant other a complete list of your online pr0n depredations, would it be an invasion of your privacy? If the snitch on your doorstep had set up a pair of binoculars across from your window and spied on you browsing pr0n you could charge his ass easily. But what about online snooping?

If you're walking down a street, does another random person have the right to walk up to you and demand you show them your ID for no apparent reason? Is browsing for beef jerky recipes and used star wars toys online the same as walking down the street?

We have a lot of privacy rights in the real world, and I'm trying to figure out how they should relate to the online world. It seems to me that our privacy online isn't what it is offline. Just because your ISP can pull up complete logs of your online habits doesn't mean they should be compelled to. Personally, I don't think they should be legally allowed to keep half of the records they do keep. Unfortunately, just the opposite seems likely to happen. All Shaw has to do to protect itself in the future is stop logging data which the CRIA could use. However, it is entirely likely that CRIA could legally compel Shaw to keep those logs. That, in my opinion, is wrong, and I hope it doesn't happen!

Re:Maybe its just me (1, Interesting)

An-Unnecessarily-Lon (761026) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554326)

By that same right, If I were to leave my garage door open does not mean come on in. At no time was an invitation given. Same holds true with a car with the windows down.

Hrrm... (1)

Gunsmithy (554829) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554000)

I can't pirate in the USA! Time to move north to Canad^H^H^H^Hwell, I hear Mexico is nice this time of year.

Rogers? Anyone? (1)

Spl0it (541008) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554002)

Is rogers standing up for its customers? I sure hope so... I can't get anything here but rogers highspeed cable internet access, nothing else is available!

Re:Rogers? Anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554315)

From what I understand, Rogers and most of the other ISPs are not contesting the customer information requests - they want the court to decide in favour of CRIA. Since most of the ISPs have relations to (or are) media companies (ie. companies that sell movies and music), there is no reason for them to be interested in protecting their customers.

Wierd. (5, Interesting)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554005)

My ISP is actually defending my rights?

What's going on here?.
I figgured that when the lawsuits start flying north of 49, Shaw would be the first to belly up and hand over my name, based on their records so far (I had a few billing issues).

Does Canada have a RICO-like law? (3, Interesting)

ArielMT (757715) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554008)

I wonder if Canadians can sue CRIA for racketeering like one or two Americans are the RIAA.
RIAA countersued Under Racketeering Laws [slashdot.org] .

Why are ISP logging anyway ? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554015)


why are they logging anyway ? whats wrong with unticking
[ ] save log to disk
or send them to dev>null

if the logs didnt exist there wouldnt be anything to argue

also the ISP has not said they will refuse, from the article..
by being forced, at its own expense, to analyze and hand over subscriber information.

are they saying that they will hand it over if the RIAA pay them for the information ? re-imburse their expenses ?

Re:Why are ISP logging anyway ? (2, Interesting)

Tuffnut (618438) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554060)

no logging? are you insane? if they didnt log anything, think of the crimes people could get way with.

Re:Why are ISP logging anyway ? (1)

Secrity (742221) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554271)

Retain the logs for three days and then delete them. Three days is long enough to investigate abuse (spam) and to comply with subpoenas involving life and limb, but it is not long enough for the customer to be abused by John Doe lawsuits. Yeah, so what if it's not long enough for fraud or kiddie pron investigations.

Re:Why are ISP logging anyway ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554244)

ISP's are already required by law to maintain certain logs for a period of time for use by law enforcment, they can shut you down for not doing so.

Forcing (0, Redundant)

barenaked (711701) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554019)

The ISP has a duty to protect the privacy of its customers, not to become a "private investigator" for the music industry by being forced, at its own expense, to analyze and hand over subscriber information.

Re:Forcing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554176)

Wow. It's uncanny, like you read my mind. Or copied and pasted from the article. Something like that.

why? (1)

gravyfaucet (759255) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554036)

Why would anyone put up for sharing, thousands of copyrighted songs? Its an invitation to get sued. It would be more stealthy to share 400-500 at a time. If it is meant as some sort of protest, the user should volunteer his/her info, and have his/her proverbial "day in court".

Re:why? (1)

BHearsum (325814) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554080)

Civil disobediance.

Re:why? (1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554255)

What do you mean?

In a democratic society you effect social change with the elections, not by breaking the law.

Re:why? (1)

BHearsum (325814) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554317)

Mmmkay...if you believe in that. I however, don't follow laws that I strongly disagree with.

Re:why? (1)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554383)

That's only if the society is approximated by reality to the extent that

(a) the democratic process is not being manipulated (by, say, intimidation of voters).

(b) the changes that need to be made are not incredibly urgent.

When Martin Luther King was running around, both of these two things were issues. Civil disobedience was, one could say, pretty darn justified.

That being said, I really don't think that "freedom to give out copies of MP3s of a CD that I own" is the greatest point to start fighting if you *really* have a legitimate issue with IP.

Re:why? (3, Insightful)

LordK2002 (672528) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554396)

Because
  1. Little Johnny may not know that that nice music player he downloaded is offering music for upload.
  2. Little Johnny may know that he is offering songs for upload, but not realise that it is illegal.
  3. Little Johnny may not know what "upload", "sharing" etc means, and just knows he has to have lots of shared files to get onto that cool music site.
  4. You get the picture.

K

The reason is (3, Funny)

mabu (178417) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554039)

Shaw is too busy spamming the rest of the world to care about cooperating with an investigation.

the question is... (2, Insightful)

Cynikal (513328) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554055)

will the courts uphold the previous laws passed about fair use... we pay tarrifs on media as a result of the laws that give us the right to share and copy music.. you cant charge someone a fee like that and then sure them for excercising their rights.

Re:the question is... (1)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554115)

They have upheld this, AFAIK.

You have the right to make private copies of media for your own use. You do not have to own the original to make the copy.

The CRIA isn't bothering to try going after downloaders -- the law isn't on their side.

They're going after uploaders -- this is not protected by law.

So, basically how it works is that your friend can buy a new computer game and you can copy it legally, however they can't copy it for you legally. That's the difference, however minor.

Re:the question is... (2, Interesting)

Cynikal (513328) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554136)

thats where you get into semantics.. who is copying for who? when i share on kazaa or whatever, im not actually making a copy, you are when you download it from me, you're copying it from my computer down to yours.

it is neither ilegal to be the copier, or the lender of the copy.. i dont know the specific wording of the law, but i cant see how borrowing a cd or whatever and copying it can be legal while lending the cd to be copied is ilegal.

Re:the question is... (1)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554316)

You are right in that it gets very vague in the digital realm..

For one to make the (legal) download, another has to make the file (illegally?) available to be downloaded.

BTW, maybe there was a phrasing problem with my original post.. You can borrow a CD from a friend and copy it. It's legal. They can lend it to you and you can copy it. That's legal too, in fact it's the same thing just phrased differently. What they can't do is copy their own CD and give you the copy.

Re:the question is... (1)

noname3 (580108) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554346)

You're right, they're going after uploaders.

One bit about the game copying: game copying isn't protected. Not even audio recordings such as audio books. Only music copying is allowed.

Private copying info here [justice.gc.ca] Section 80 is the relevant part, and note how it only covers music.

Case on static IPs? (1, Interesting)

barks (640793) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554072)

Scott said Shaw, because of the design of its network and its policy for storing customer data, does not have a way of "reliably" complying with such a court order.

I assume dynamic IP addresses might be an issue here - would hate to see poor senior Mrs. Johnson down the street get nabbed for being accused of dl'ing P.Diddy!

Re:Case on static IPs? (2, Insightful)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554342)

I'm sure Shaw must be able to track what dunamic IP was mapped to which username at any given point in time..

Used CD stores the next to go? (5, Insightful)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554133)

I haven't bought a new album from a retail record store in years and years. Whenever I desire a peice of plastic (which is frequent enough) I'll pick it up at a used store, earning the artist and label no money anyway. How long until second hand shops are shut down by CRIA?

Anyone who thinks Canada is freer than the States is full of crap. We are simply 1 or 2 years behind our big fat brother downstairs. We'll adopt every law they enact (file swapping) and maintain every nonsensical law they uphold (marijuana posession) until the end of time. Why? Because we don't want Dubya to drop a W-bomb on our various beaver hatcheries.

All hail America Jr., land of the slightly freer (until 1 year later).

In the mean time, keep doing what you do. Make a statement by defying the law. Protect yourself while you do it. Use PeerGuardian 2 [xs.tech.nu] .

woot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554162)

Glad im with Shaw, they're way better than Rogers or Telus by far.

a modest proposal (theoretically, or course) (2, Interesting)

yagu (721525) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554179)

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone go out and do this, but wouldn't it be an interesting scenario to protest and demonstrate against the recording industries' treatment of the customer as a pre-supposed criminal, and show what devastating effects losing the customers altogether can wreak?

For example, wouldn't it be interesting if all owners of CD's just decided after making sure they had ripped and encoded and backed up their existing CD's under the auspices of "fair use" suddenly decided to sell their CD's... say, maybe for $1? Now, of course, the most important thing in this transaction is the seller remember to destroy existing "fair share" stock... :-)

I would think if some organized mass effort like this ever grew legs, the recording industries would maybe understand better the repercussions of their disdain and disregard for the integrity of their customers. (I, myself, have about 1300 CD's )

Just my 01

I wonder why the Canadia music folks... (1)

pdcryan (748847) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554182)

... actually invited the ISPs into court, instead of getting an Anton Pillar order - which I believe is ex parte.

Maybe that's the next step. (Maybe I'm way off on this as well - I've only studied American law) As draconian as we all think the DCMA is - at least we don't have to deal with those Anton Pillar orders - talk about plundering.

Feh! (2, Informative)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554189)

Shaw's true reason is not that they CARE about their customer's privacy, but rather that their network infrastructure is so fucked-up that they are simply unable to keep logs properly...

-99 (flame troll) (1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554230)

Montreal-based Groupe Videotron Ltee. is the only service provider to say it will fully co-operate.

So, the French mode of surrender applies across the Atlantic too, n'est-ces pas?

Re:-99 (flame troll) (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554290)

As funny as that is, the real reason is that Videotron is owned by Quebecor, who sells music. So the CRIA going after filesharers is in their best interest. Whereas a company like Shaw, with no ties to the music industry, is telling the CRIA & co to fuck off and stop badgering their precious customers (after all, Shaw would much rather swindle us out of our money first!)

Offtopic, but... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554247)

I can't wait for the day a deaf man gets sued by the RIAA; or someone getting sued for sharing Jimi Hendrix.

sex with a Goat (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554268)

How is the GNAA Daaren Reed, which whether to repeat wiil recall that it a productivity website Third, you

Brand new law in Italy is gonna hunt down sharers (4, Informative)

SilveRo_kun (741555) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554275)

Yesterday an anti-piracy "decreto di legge" (for the moment only for movies, but it will be extended) was passed (the final step before it becomes a law). It is somewhat like the new european law, but it is stricter with sharers. The ISPs are by law forced to hand over to the "Guardia di Finanza" (cops) the info on the sharers whenever a copyright owner complains (the law says that if they don't comply, they can be fined for up to 250.000 euros). The sharers will then be fined "simbolically": (1500 euros), and the information of the fined sharer will be published (!!!) on a national newspaper!! Yup, no kiddin', Italy sucks, and if you know italian you can check for your self here: http://www.beniculturali.it/download/DL_Cinema_PCM 12032004.pdf
More info can be found here: http://punto-informatico.it/p.asp?i=47374 , but unfortunately it's all in Italian (I am waiting to find an article in english to submit the story....)

Nice to see some support from ISP's (3, Insightful)

xot (663131) | more than 10 years ago | (#8554283)

Whether Shaw Cable has a messed up network or they respect the users privacy, its nice to see ISP's stand up against the music industry for a change instead of whimpering in a corner.
At least they are not going out of the way to get some poor kid sued for a million dollars!

VOTE ROLLOFFLE IN 2004 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554318)

GNAA pwnage! CmdrTaco sucks a bellend!

Phone StarManta and tell him he's a fag!

This just in, GNAA has officially pwnt Slashfag StarManta! [slashdot.org]

Proof of concept here! [webhop.net]

This post proudly brought you by GNAA member: rolloffle

Daniels Hall, ROOM 0217 2720 SCIOTO ST CINCINNATI OH 45219
r.nothnagel@fuse.net
95130556-7920
(513)556-7920
courtesy of
http://ucdirectory.uc.edu/students.asp

This grand message brought to you by Jarnes Jayce Media!

55056273

VOTE ROLLOFFLE IN 2004 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554322)

GNAA pwnage! CmdrTaco sucks a bellend!

Phone StarManta and tell him he's a fag!

This just in, GNAA has officially pwnt Slashfag StarManta! [slashdot.org]

Proof of concept here! [webhop.net]

This post proudly brought you by GNAA member: rolloffle

Daniels Hall, ROOM 0217 2720 SCIOTO ST CINCINNATI OH 45219
r.nothnagel@fuse.net
95130556-7920
(513)556-7920
courtesy of
http://ucdirectory.uc.edu/students.asp

This grand message brought to you by Jarnes Jayce Media!

79112768

VOTE ROLLOFFLE IN 2004 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554323)

GNAA pwnage! CmdrTaco sucks a bellend!

Phone StarManta and tell him he's a fag!

This just in, GNAA has officially pwnt Slashfag StarManta! [slashdot.org]

Proof of concept here! [webhop.net]

This post proudly brought you by GNAA member: rolloffle

Daniels Hall, ROOM 0217 2720 SCIOTO ST CINCINNATI OH 45219
r.nothnagel@fuse.net
95130556-7920
(513)556-7920
courtesy of
http://ucdirectory.uc.edu/students.asp

This grand message brought to you by Jarnes Jayce Media!

48510681

VOTE ROLLOFFLE IN 2004 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8554334)

GNAA pwnage! CmdrTaco sucks a bellend!

Phone StarManta and tell him he's a fag!

This just in, GNAA has officially pwnt Slashfag StarManta! [slashdot.org]

Proof of concept here! [webhop.net]

This post proudly brought you by GNAA member: rolloffle

Daniels Hall, ROOM 0217 2720 SCIOTO ST CINCINNATI OH 45219
r.nothnagel@fuse.net
95130556-7920
(513)556-7920
courtesy of
http://ucdirectory.uc.edu/students.asp

This grand message brought to you by Jarnes Jayce Media!

42247949
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