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YaST to Become Open Source

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the changes-of-heart dept.

SuSE 478

Space_Soldier writes "According to News.com, YaST is going open source: 'For years, SUSE has considered its YaST (Yet Another Setup Tool) software for installing, configuring and managing Linux an advantage over its competitors and forbade them from incorporating it into the products they sold. But with the new plan, to be announced Monday at Novell's Brainshare conference, the company will release YAST under the GPL, sources familiar with the plan said.'" Several years ago, when I first used YaST, I found it to be superior to the rest of the all-in-one administation tools around at the time. It was generally regarded as a great program, save for the licensing. Today, that's no longer a concern.

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478 comments

Well fuck you too cowboy neal (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607018)

Some of us still prefer it

cool (-1, Troll)

m3j00 (606453) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607020)

first post

YOU FAILED IT YOU FILTHY COCKSUCKER (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607031)

I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO MY BLOODY ANUS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607056)

I SHOOT HEROIN AND RAPE UGLY NIGGERS EVERY NIGHT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607102)

adsfa

DEAR SLASHDOT: FUCKING BAN MY RACIST FAGGOTY ASS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607109)

plz

I FUCK GAY SHEEP ALL NIGHT (AND DAY) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607066)

help plz

Good work Novell (4, Insightful)

Teh_monkeyCode (752769) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607024)

Hopefully we can get other large companies putting as much support into open source as Novell is.

Re:Good work Novell (5, Insightful)

hawkeyeMI (412577) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607059)

I would say Novell's very livelihood depends on their switch to Linux. AFAIK they were no longer going anyhere, though they were once the leaders.

Let's hope they can bring the famed Novell ease-of-use to Linux.

Re:Good work Novell (1)

Canberra Bob (763479) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607065)

Yes, it would be good if large companies like:
IBM [ibm.com] , Hewlett Packard [hp.com] , Sun [sun.com] , etc would become interested in open source wouldnt it?

Obligatory (2, Funny)

Gherald (682277) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607168)

You forgot Microsoft [microsoft.com] ;)

Re:Good work Novell (2, Insightful)

Myuu (529245) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607197)

forgot Apple!

Sad (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607027)

It's sad that SuSE has given into the fascist GNU zealots. *sigh* Another win for communism :(

Re:Sad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607070)

Fascism != Communism!

Re:Sad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607112)

Dear MODs,

A post that comments on the post's parent is not OFFTOPIC!! TROLL, FLAMEBAIT, yes. OFFTOPIC, no!

Re:Sad (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607118)

STFU, NIGGER

Finally... (2, Funny)

Seoulstriker (748895) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607029)

Maybe I can finally install packages myself without having someone else remotely login and set them up for me.

Give me a break. I'm new to this whole "Linux" thing.

Re:Finally... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607038)

RTFM

Re:Finally... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607100)

RTFM??

Rape The Fat Monkey??
Roast The Furry Mule??
Rewind The Film Moron??
Release The Funky Mutants??
Reload The Flash Movie??

At Last! (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607040)

Just when I switched from Mandrake to SUSE Novell does the right thing and makes an honest Open Source distro out of it!

Way to go!

YaST - great for newbs but... (4, Interesting)

hawkeyeMI (412577) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607049)

While YaST may be great for people who know nothing about linux (and I'm happy to see that they're releasing it!) it annoys the hell out of me. Maybe I'm just not familiar with SuSE but it seems to me like any changes you make manually to configs will either (a) not take effect or (b) be overwritten by YaST next time you do something with it. Autoyast is very neat, btw. Apparently RedHat has something similar to that.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607072)

Since I use SuSE at home, i have become quite accustomed to using YaST. Although sometimes it does not make changes, I find that that is very rare, and can be changed manualy. I have never seen YaST overwrite a config file in having used it for over a year. Overall I think YaST is amazing, and is supperior to most other linux managment tools that I have used.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (4, Informative)

horati0 (249977) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607079)

Autoyast is very neat, btw. Apparently RedHat has something similar to that.

Yep. [redhat.com]

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (2, Informative)

grolschie (610666) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607092)

Same here. An awesome setup tool, however, myself being too Debianized, I try to edit the system files, and YaST overwrites them. arghhh!!!

However, it's an awesome tool. I love their installer and partitioner with the option of automatic NTFS partition resizing and the creation of a dual boot system if it finds Windows on the drive. Superb!

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (5, Interesting)

texroot (755903) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607116)

I think that the general rule for gui config tools is to either use the tool or config things manually, but don't do both. Or, use the tool, then add your manual tweaks, saving a copy of the config before using the gui tool again.

Aggravating, but I've seen the case made for this typical behaviour elsewhere. The justification is that if joe user invokes the gui tool you want predictable results, not results subtly sabotaged by a previous botched hand edit of config files.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (2, Interesting)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607230)

problem is that some of the config tools can't do advanced functionality, and so you have to hand-code it. Then when you go back to change one little thing, it resets the hand-coded part and you have to re-remember how to do it and then re-do it.

For instance, on Mandrake 9.2 after telling the firewall to let ftp through in the control center, it still blocked all the tcp ports ftp uses to transfer data... essentially blocking ftp. The advanced section which let you specify ports would not let you select port ranges (eg 60000:65535/tcp) but only individual ports, so I had to go in and hand code this. Then every time I need to change the firewall, I have to hand code it or It will undo my changes...

I dunno, maybe I'm doing something stupid, but that kinda stuff bugs me.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (4, Insightful)

Nailer (69468) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607279)

I think that the general rule for gui config tools is to either use the tool or config things manually, but don't do both.

I think a better rule would be not to make excuses for badly written tools.

GUI config tools should follow three simple rules:
  • Use the same config as the app does
  • never modify configuration without asking
  • display, preserve, and make editable comments about a configuration item that are placed above that item (with blank lines as delimiters).


Otherwise they are useless.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607170)

Ya, Mandrake does this too, overwriting only select config files if you change them. It's pretty annoying...

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (1)

Penguin Follower (576525) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607181)

I, too, got tired of all the "newb-tools" getting in the way on distros like Red Hat, Mandrake... (Never used SUSE though).

I was a big Slackware user after getting started with the easier distros like above. Now, however, I have seen the light -- and the savior's name is Gentoo Linux. I now have two seperate machines running Gentoo compiled from stage one installs :)

Long Live Gentoo!

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (1)

ev1lcanuck (718766) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607182)

I've used YaST and Mandrake's version (SetupDrake or InstallDrake or something like that) and I have to say that YaST bugs the hell out of me too. Mandrake's offering is far superior. Although it does sometimes think for itself it doesn't do it as badly as YaST does. YaST is one of those programs that "takes liberties." Blech.

Re:YaST - great for newbs but... (3, Interesting)

ickoonite (639305) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607258)

Apple does a good job here with their System Preferences.

On my iBooks, I have a firewall configured the old-fashioned way - using pico :P. If I try to tinker with the firewall using the relevant Preference Pane, I am warned that other firewall software is in use on the machine and that I cannot configure the firewall using Apple's pretty GUI unless I sort this out first. This basic level of protection can't be hard to do.

A better thing would of course be to get the GUI to be kind to custom-written configuration files, but this could be quite hard to do.

iqu :)

Gets my thumbs up. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607050)

Anything that uses a pineapple [www.suse.de] as an icon for "Misc" is alright in my book.

Re:Gets my thumbs up. (2, Interesting)

kevcol (3467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607104)

Ya know, I never once even thought about it when firing up yast but yeah- it's hilarious now that you point that out! A kitchen sink icon would have done nicely as well but that being sorta logical would perhaps make that less funny than a pineapple.

NIGGER-FUCKING FAGS CONTROL THE WORLD I HAVE PROOF (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607055)

gay sex everywhere

ohhhhh yeah

User Friendly (2)

oO Peeping Tom Oo (750505) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607058)

This looks like the least intimidating Linux setup i've ever seen! Forget sending a debian distro to less tech savvy friend, this seems like the way to go.....

restarting yast development (3, Insightful)

Truval (763526) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607060)

The problem is that YAST has been going downhill ever since Rolf Schilling left the project. Now they have to GPL it to get development going again. It was a great AI1 tool once but it has languished for at least a couple years now.

AT YAST! (2, Funny)

g-to-the-o-to-the-g (705721) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607063)

AT YAST! an open source system configuration/management tool for us all!

SHUT THE FUCK UP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607120)

harpo

Yast makes me happy (4, Insightful)

tokennrg (690176) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607068)

I've been using Yast for the last few months. I've been really happy with it. Updates are a breeze. Installing new software couldn't be easier. It hasn't missed a dependency yet. Usability is pretty good and fairly intuitive.

Great (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607071)

This should cut the number of comments in any Suse story in half.

Re:Great (5, Funny)

bsharitt (580506) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607151)

Red Hat: Doesn't include MP3

Debian: Outdated

Gentoo: Takes to long to compile

SuSE: Now we need a new thing to complain about SuSE.

How about that Gecko think, I never liked him any way.

License is good for software, so good i never... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607074)

License is good for software, so good i never used yast. I have no idea why it is good.

Yes sir, licensing is the cat's meow.

I love open source, BUT (4, Interesting)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607075)

aren't Novell giving away the store here? Just the same way that frustrated OpenBSD users distribute unauthorised OpenBSD iso's, now frustrated SuSE fans will be legally able to distribute home-rolled SuSE isos...or worse yet: Steal YaST lock stock and barrel and take away Novell's market.

Is this really such a good thing, in the long run?

Re:I love open source, BUT (5, Funny)

k_head (754277) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607121)

Not really. In a recent speech the CEO of novell said that they are no longer an operating system company. They make their money selling things on top of an operating system like eDirectory, groupwise, red carpet, ximian connector etc.

It looks to me like they are keeping their focus on the enterprise which has very little use for YAST but is more then willing to pay for an awsome product like eDirectory or Zenworks.

I have spent the last two weeks banging my head against Active directory and let me tell you if my CIO said they were switching to Edirectory I would litereally kiss his ass and wash his car.

A bit of a semantics problem here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607127)

How do you steal something thats already free for the taking?

Re:I love open source, BUT (5, Insightful)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607133)

Thing is, I think Novell's got the idea. Once we can develop good, solid, working ways to install the operating system, supporting it should be a lot easier. And Novell knows that there's no reason to NOT tap the millions of people online willing to help code this platform. I personally believe Novell's trying to secure itself as the second large Linux supporting company. By buying Ximian, they gave themselves a very viable desktop, by buying SuSE, they gave themselves a stable platform. Now they just need to do the middle work such as getting it to work on all hardware, and making it easy to support. And IMO, open source is a hell of a lot easier to support, especially since the people with the problems, usually know how to go about fixing them, and will send patches.

Don't discredit the selling power either. This probably won't hurt the sells of SuSE at all, in fact, it very well might augment sales, due to the people without fast internet connections wanting to get a taste of the YaST code. Don't count on it, but the potential's definitely there. Novell's making a good move here, I commend them.

Re:I love open source, BUT (1)

jrcamp (150032) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607291)

Personally, I don't believe Novell bought Ximian for their GNOME "enhancements". According to them, they were interested in SuSE (seen as a KDE desktop distribution) before Ximian entered the picture. The aquisitions just happened to not happen at the same rate.

As I was saying, Novell probably saw how useful the Exchange Connector might be as well as Red Carpet Express (to compliment ZenWorks on the Linux side). Mono might have also interested them in countering Microsoft's .NET push. The Ximian Desktop might be a decent side-gift, kind of like those you get when you buy stuff off TV at 2:00 am. You probably would have bought the shit anyway, but at least you get something else for your 14.95.

That's probably the point. (3, Insightful)

debest (471937) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607138)

Is this really such a good thing, in the long run?

It is if it increases SuSE's penetration as a distro. Before Novell (reasonably deep pockets) bought SuSE (pretty small pockets), the distro had to be a profit centre. Now Novell can afford to allow the entire distro to be free (a la Red Hat), so that more people use it and use Novell/SuSE's server and service offerings as a result.

Novell/SuSE will want as many people to try their software as possible: making their entire distro GPL-friendly will accomplish this, along with Red Hat's official abandonment of desktop Linux. Sure, short-term this may hurt them (I was planning on purchasing 9.1 soon, I may not now). It is *because* of the long-term benefits that this makes sense.

Re:I love open source, BUT (1)

capz loc (752940) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607158)

This comes just a few months after Anaconda, the RedHat installer, started being used for another distro (is it Debian's new installer?). Novell obviously saw this move as a good thing.

I disagree that this will take away significant market share from SuSE. It's not like they are stopping using YAST. And now it will benefit from the contributions of hackers around the world. An installer does not a distro make, and remember that any forks of SuSE will be GPL'd, so any features that Novell feels would benefit the distro, they could theoretically merge into the official tree. One could argue that opening up the entire distro is essentially buying Novell a development community.

Re:I love open source, BUT (3, Informative)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607183)

This comes just a few months after Anaconda, the RedHat installer, started being used for another distro (is it Debian's new installer?). Novell obviously saw this move as a good thing.

Well, I dunno what other OS is using it as it's installer, but it's not debian. Debian's new installer's self rolled, text only, very basic stuff. Anaconda has, however, been ported to install Debian by Progeny [progeny.com] . Pretty neat, but I don't see it eever taking precidence to the Debian Installer.

And I do agree with you that it probably won't take away any market share. If anything, it sets up SuSE as running against RedHat, which should be a very interesting battle. And we are the ones to benefit.

Re:I love open source, BUT (4, Insightful)

pavon (30274) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607174)

To add to the previous three posters who all made excelent points - RedHat GPL'd most everything and provided ISO's for download, and still managed to make money off of Red Hat Linux. This will just increase install base, not decrease sales.

Re:I love open source, BUT (5, Insightful)

Zeddicus_Z (214454) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607212)

No, not at all.

You need to realise that Novell's product is not a Linux distro - that was never their reasoning behind the purchase of SuSE. Rather Novell purchased SuSE to give them a strong, established Linux distro on which to base their directory service offering.

Prior to purchasing SuSE, Novell evaulated its position in the market. What they found was that while they had a kick-ass directory service product, they were being kicked in the pants when it came to new deployments - primarily by MS Windows and Active Directory.

Rather then attempt to re-build and re-position the NetWare brand among IT decision makers, Novell realised they could do much better by taking an existing base Operating System with widespread appeal, and integrating NDS with that.

Essentially Novell's cut NetWare* and tied its future to NDS on Linux.

Enter Linux. It had everything Novell needed: stability; maturity; widespread developer support; GPL (why write a new base when you can modify an existing one?); a wicked reputation among IT techs and, best of all, an increasingly bright future with the potential to topple all challengers.

Announcing NDS on Linux and then subsequently purchasing a well established Linux distro was, not to put to fine a point on it, absolute genious. NDS gets the best possible base, loss of market share to Active Directory is significantly slowed or halted (and eventually reversed if all goes to plan) and Novell regains the reputation it had among techs back in the days when MS' best offering was WfW.

GPLing YaST isn't a loss for Novell, it's a gain for Linux. Which makes it a gain for the base OS Novell will see increasing use of NDS on. Which makes it a win for Novell.

*Yes, Novell will continue to support and even offer NetWare-based NDS installations. But the fact remains that if all goes to plan, Novell will see its new business increasingly tied to NDS+Linux rather than the old bundle of NDS+NetWare

If giving away the installer... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607220)

...is a make or break for a Linux distro, poor them. The installer is, in my opinion the least important part of the system. As long as the installer doesn't crash, doesn't ask obscure questions without giving a default and gets me to a point where I can run up2date, yum or apt-get I'll make it, if the OS is worth it.

And if you're talking about newbies, they won't install OSs. My dad still needs hand-holding if there's anything more complex than doubleclick->next->next->next->finishe d. Either it'll come preinstalled or someone a lot geekier will install it for him. Either way, it's not important.

Kjella

Re:If giving away the installer... (1)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607283)

I don't think this is true either. An installer is a vital part of the whole solution. It gives you a chance to orient yourself with the operating system, to get the look and feel of things down, to understand what all is being installed, and to get to know the technologies at work. Microsoft honed the art of installing years ago, and ever since they've used the installer as a great billboard for their operating system. But since anyone who's likely to be looking at it is upgrading, reinstalling, or something of that like, it has to be friendly because they're probably already pissed as it is.

It's kinda like buying a new car. Shiny and pretty, plenty powerful under the hood, nice leather interior, cd player, all the good stuff you find in cars today. But would you buy that car without test driving it? Would you buy it before you knew how to drive it? Now apply this to an operating system, would you install it without getting some kind of a chance to orient yourself with it? Would you nosedive into it without having the slightest clue of what you're doing? Better yet, should you have to?

The installer's not all of the game, but it's defintely something you want to get right. If you get it to where even the most experienced users will feel just as at home as a complete computer newbie, than you're probably on the right path. YaST is close... closer than Anaconda IMO, but, as with everything.. could user a little work. Thank goodness now we get the chance.

Ability to Adapt (4, Insightful)

thedillybar (677116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607089)

You need to be able to adapt if you want to stay alive in this world. The United States has been along for so many years because of the "necessary and proper" clause which allows the government to adapt to a changing world.

Clearly Novell is taking the hint. They're aware of the fact that the world is going Open Source, and they're willing to deal with it. If they ensure a good relationship with the open source community now, they'll be rewarded with success for years to come. If they distance themselves from the open source community, like SCO, then they will make more money in the short term but be ousted in the long term.

Novell is a good organization that has been around since the beginning (or, at least, for a long time). I, for one, hope they continue to be around and keep up the good work.

Re:Ability to Adapt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607222)

You will hate yourself in the morning, whore.

Novell's doing? (4, Interesting)

Coryoth (254751) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607091)

So is this a sign of the "We are really taking open source on board" that Novell has been trying to sell us, or is this just an internal SuSE decision? To be honest, I'm quietly hoping this was a Novel call, and that it's a sign that we have a big player really taking open source and GPL seriously. That, and hopefully it would be a sign that Novell might eventually start open sourcing some of their own applications, which would be a tremendous boost for FOSS.

Jedidiah.

Will it actually be useful... (4, Insightful)

bangular (736791) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607093)

Many distributions have open sourced their installers and administration tools, but for the most part, many have been useless for other distros. Many expect the EXACT filesystem hierchy of the original distro, exact package tools, etc. etc. So if I want to make a distribution and base it on someone else's installer or admin tools, I either have to dig into their source and do it myself, or make another distribution. There are some notable exceptions (webmin being one of them). While this is mostly good news, what I question is, will I be able to use it on linux from scratch without heavy porting? If not, it's not much use to many people.

Re:Will it actually be useful... (1)

bangular (736791) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607106)

damn preview button being close to submit...
s/or make another distribution/ or make another distribution almost exactly like theirs./

YaST is not one of those (3, Informative)

r_j_prahad (309298) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607242)

I'm running YaST Online Update (YOU) in the background even as I type this, downloading a new Athlon kernel and associated security patches. YaST is not your run-of-the-mill useless sysadmin megascript; it's forty or fifty inter-related packages that address every important aspect of managing a Linux system. Microsoft doesn't have anything close to it. I don't know of any reason why you couldn't use it on any RPM-based distro, but I have to admit I've been using it solely on desktops, and not in a server environment. It's the newb's answer to keeping a healthy up-to-date patched Linux box on the Internet that won't be a detriment to it's neighbors or an embarassment to the Linux community.

YaST vs. Anaconda? (5, Interesting)

Xystance (660413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607095)

So, alright...

I purchase SuSE 9.0 Professional, DVD.

I boot off the DVD, and I get a whopping five step process that takes me through everything from network configuration, partitioning, and hardware configuration AS WELL as choosing a password for root and another user.

Incredible. Combined with hotplug even X configuration may not be necessary. This really could put the barriers to installing, configuring, and beginning to use Linux (for the general public of course) to rest.

But, what about the Anaconda installer?
Relatively simple install and relatively problem free. Not quite as "pretty" as SuSE has made YaST, but it does the job just as well. Then why hasn't Anaconda become a defacto standard? (Though, look at installing Gentoo from binary stages and GRP packages through Anaconda... looks damn good)

So, why does Mandrake choose to make their own installer? Why do other "user-friendly" distributions choose to use other installers? What are the deficiencies in Anaconda that have not attracted others to this install process? Are those same deficiencies non-existent in YaST?

Therefore, I pose the question :

Anaconda vs. YaST : All other variables made equal, which is easier to use as a user, and which is easier to implement as a distro developer?

WHO FUCKING CARES (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607135)

i suck dick

Re:YaST vs. Anaconda? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607142)

Well Anaconda is also getting ported to Debian by Progeny last I remember in addition to the gentoo port.

If I am not mistaken, the reason that Mandrake dosn't use anaconda, is that at the time that they made thier own installer, the anaconda installer just wasn't up to par. It, and all the redhat-config-* tools, have improved dramatically since RH8 and up.

Puns (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607101)

At YaST!

Psh. This is YaSTerday's news.

I'm using this and having a BlYaST!

Kiss my YaST! This is awesome!

YaST? NoST!

Whachutalkn' bout, Willis? hYaSSSSSST!!!

Byar, swab the deck, then raise the mYaST!

This post is not the funnYaST!

Re:Puns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607290)

Heh, nice one bro :)

one more (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607299)

Howard Dean: YeeeeeeeeeAASSSST!!

Other Closed Programs in SUSE? (5, Interesting)

Landaras (159892) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607113)

I am a huge SUSE fan, in fact running 9.0 Professional as I type this.

Before, SUSE kept individuals from reselling their ISO's by leveraging YaST. Specifically, the YaST license states that you can freely make copies of ISO's containing it, and give them away. However, no money could change hands in the process.

Want to host SUSE ISO's containing YaST for all of your friends? The YaST license says 'go for it.' Want to charge them five dollars to download them (just to cover your hosting costs). The YaST license says you can't do that.

You could still extract OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and other GPL'd (or similar) software from the SUSE distro and distribute those as you wished, but it was YaST that you could only give away, never sell.

Novell appears to be opening YaST up to try to get the market and other parties to standardize on it. I applaud this, as I definitely consider YaST to be a best-of-breed application.

My question is, is there any other software within the SUSE distro that Novell could leverage to keep the SUSE ISO's from being sold?

- Neil Wehneman

Re:Other Closed Programs in SUSE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607252)

My guess is that Novell will use a RedHat-style support license, which has been just about the only practical way discovered to make money from "Free Software".

Quite frankly, most enterprise customers will happily pay license fees anyway.

Re:Other Closed Programs in SUSE? (5, Interesting)

sflory (2747) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607296)

My feeling is having talked with some of the Novell people during the early days of the merger. The Suse Linux product will become much more like Red Hat Linux was. I'm fairly sure that you will see the following products suse 9.1 products free download /w isos, basic cdrom with installation support and manuals, and profession with some additional non free stuff. Of course I'm just guessing, but I get the feeling Novell intends to open things up a lot.

Remember that Novell isn't in the Linux distro business. Suse is a way for Novell to sell services, and additional enterprise software around. That and counter blance MS, and RH. Let's face it if Intel, and IBM actually liked Red Hat. Suse would have been out of business long ago. Then again having dealt with RH selling their RHEL product. I'm beginning to understand the feeling.

Different view. (3, Interesting)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607117)

Several years ago, when I first used YaST, I found it to be superior to the rest of the all-in-one administation tools around at the time.

Several years ago, when I came from Slackware to SuSe (just playing around), I found YaST to be extremely irritating, confusing and all together useless. I'd make a small change in a menu and that would trigger the running of lots and lots of mysterious scripts all over the place, doing gawd knows what. Went back to slackware after that.

(This was, as I said, years ago and is not a comment on YaST as of today).

Not exactly the Second Coming (2, Interesting)

mandolin (7248) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607124)

Several years ago, when I first used YaST, I found it to be superior to the rest of the all-in-one administation tools around at the time.

That is not saying much. I always felt a little sorry for the Linuxconf authors (for example), it looked like they tried to make a flexible program (at least front-end wise), but their proggy was always buggy presumably because they couldn't track all the various configuration file changes across different distributions.

It's certainly nice that Suse is moving farther in the open-source direction, though.

YEA! YAST! (1)

DrugCheese (266151) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607126)

YAST is what really first turned me on to SuSE. My favorite thing about it was that I could use it over an ssh connection and configure just about everything remotely. Over the years it has turned into a create setup facility.

GO SuSE!

Yast is great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607131)

This is a really good thing. After Gentoo, Suse is my favorite distro, but, unlike really all of the other distros, it couldn't be distributed. Instead they had the wimpy 90 day trial things. Suse really has a distro that could move linux further onto the desktop, and now this pushes Suse itself even closer.

YaST over SSH (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607134)

Best thing about YaST is that you can easily run it over an ssh connection. It works almost exactly the same over a terminal as from a X session.

Re:YaST over SSH (1)

norweigiantroll (582720) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607223)

Okay... with X-forwarding you can run anything over SSH, what's your point?

Re:YaST over SSH (4, Informative)

jrcamp (150032) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607269)

No, you must not be very familiar with YAST. Starting it from the command prompt yields a ncurses GUI with the same functions that you would get from the Qt version. So, the parent is quite correct in that it is easy to use over a plain SSH connection.

I got on board (4, Interesting)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607136)

with Suse 9.0 and I knew then that it was the right move. I used (and started out on) Mandrake 8.1 and stuck with it through 9.1, but when 9.2 released I switched to Suse.

I also switched everyone I know to Suse and they all agree, Suse is damn good stuff.

This is great news and I know that this will boost Suse sales. I push Suse and now I have another selling point.

Thank you Suse, thank you Novell..

Misleading Names (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607140)

For years, SUSE has considered its YaST (Yet Another Setup Tool) software for installing, configuring and managing Linux an advantage over its competitors

Then they probably should not have named it with the "Yet Another" schema. It does not really give the idea to the user that the setup tool is an advantage or in any way innovative. Serious lack of confidence there.

U.S. to Be Nearly Half Minority by 2050 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607144)

The White race will not survive, if what the census bureau is projecting turns out to be true. White men cannot keep their penises in their pants. They will breed with Asian females, and hispanic females, and in some cases, black females, until the white race is completely eliminated. Similarly, white women will continue mating with blacks, and latinos. The white gene is recessive and all offspring produced in such interracial unions will be colored.

I can't say that I'll be heartbroken about you guys' departure. But it's just something to keep in mind

Re:U.S. to Be Nearly Half Minority by 2050 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607162)

The White race will not survive

This may happen, it may not. One things for certain: whitey sure left a good legacy: Civilization, The Renaissance, science, computers, among others.

Re:U.S. to Be Nearly Half Minority by 2050 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607238)

Damn it! I'm moving to Canada.

Re:U.S. to Be Nearly Half Minority by 2050 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607253)

Nope. The nips control Canada!

SaX (4, Interesting)

Landaras (159892) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607159)

The article doesn't mention SaX, which I believe to be a fully separate program. For those who don't run SUSE, SaX handles video cards and monitors.

I ask because SaX saved me a few hours ago. I came home from school for a week, and left my 19" monitor at my apartment. I'm using a spare 17" monitor while at home. Unfortunately the refresh rate configured for the 19" monitor is incompatible with the lesser monitor.

I dreaded having to get a crash course in X configuration in order to manually change the refresh rate, but thankfully had SaX. I just restarted, chose "failsafe" from the GRUB options, hit SaX2 after logging in at the shell, and SaX automatically corrected the resolution and refresh rate to my new monitor.

I still haven't convinced my Windows 2000 box (damn you iTunes! [slashdot.org] ) to adjust to the new monitor.

I'll poke with the Windows box some more in the morning, but I found it interesting that SaX fixed this problem quicker and with less fuss than Windows 2000.

- Neil Wehneman

Re:SaX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607175)

Sorry to reply to my own post, but the title and body should mention something along the lines of...

"Is SaX being GPL'd as well?"

- Neil Wehneman

Thanks SUSE/Novell (4, Interesting)

Adrian De Leon (30979) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607160)

As one of the "OSS" zealots that has bitched and moaned about Yast's licence in the past, I would like to thank SUSE/Novell for this license change. ;-)

Now I can recomend and use SUSE without any holdups.

Please support SUSE with this decision by voting with your wallet.

It seems that Novell is making the right moves regarding Linux! I hope it pays off for them and the Community

Ximian YaST (2, Interesting)

Coryoth (254751) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607169)

So with YaST going open source and having a much larger developer base willing to scratch odd itches, I wonder if we'll get a GNOME/GTK port of YaST that will get included in Ximian Desktop?

Anyone want to give some odds?

Jedidiah.

Re:Ximian YaST (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607281)

2-3 odds on!

Try it! (3, Interesting)

invisik (227250) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607177)

I suggest anyone who hasn't seen SUSE 9.0 Pro to go out and try it. YaST is so simple and SUSE has done an excellent job in integrating things on the desktop with lots of standard drivers.

I can't wait for 9.1! I'm really excited to get on an integrated 2.6 and KDE 3.2 distro.

-m

Re:Try it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607294)

I can't wait for 9.1! I'm really excited to get on an integrated 2.6 and KDE 3.2 distro.

Wooaaaohaa,I'M SO EXCITED AND I JUST CAN'T HIDE IT

careful not to get ya panties ina knot.

This is great news! (1)

Phidoux (705500) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607190)

It will only serve to strengthen Linux distributions and make the adoption of Linux on the desktop a less daunting experience for existing Windows users. Great stuff guys!

Thanks! (5, Interesting)

Nermal6693 (622898) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607200)

SuSE has been my preferred distro for years, and a good part of that decision has been due to YaST. Configuring Linux with YaST is easier than configuring Windows. Well I suppose once XP came out, Linux looked a LOT easier in comparison :) So thanks SuSE/Novell, for opening up your distribution further. I hope that this move helps others to see the light.

Pernicious (0, Flamebait)

Z4rd0Z (211373) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607207)

From the article:
...YAST's current license carries prohibitions on distribution: "Distribution of the YAST program, its sources...and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SuSE Linux," according to the license.

Bruce Perens, who helped write the Open Source Definition and is an open-source advocate, described the permission provision as "pernicious" in an interview.


Let's see here...
$ dict pernicious
Pernicious \Per*ni"cious\, a. [L. perniciosus, from pernicies
destruction, from pernecare to kill or slay outright; per + necare to kill, slay: cf. F. pernicieux. Cf. {Nuisance},
{Necromancy}.]
Having the quality of injuring or killing; destructive; very
mischievous; baleful; malicious; wicked.
For god's sake, will someone fire Bruce Perens and the other whacked out leaders of the Open Source/Free Software movement? I love open source software, but can we please have some reasonable people speaking for it, once?

Now mod me the fuck down, zealots.

And meanwhile, Windows users look with... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607232)

...bemusement at how Linux still doesn not install stuff as easily as XP, ME, 98 and even 95.

Windows, it just works.

I will offer this, though. The one way to get Windows users to switch to Linux is to change the licensing terms of Linux so Microsoft can put their own distro out. In essense, Linux NEEDS Microsoft.

When MS-Linux comes out, finally things will work, and correctly! This is what you would get with an MS-Linux distro.

1) No hassle OS installation
2) No hassle device installation.
3) No hassle driver upgrade.
4) No hassle software installation.
5) Direct X.
6) Easy software update via MS-Linux Update.
7) An intuitive GUI.
8) Windows Media Player.
9) Quality commercial apps galore.

You have it your power to destroy Windows by contacting Linus and saying "Hey, this GPL thing REALLY isn't working, it's time to make Linux attractive enough for even Microsoft to utilize. The time has come to amend the terms."

MS-Linux, the savior of the world.

Re:And meanwhile, Windows users look with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607255)


10) Virus haven w/ advanced networking support
11) Spyware
12) IE for linux
13) Virus scanner that blocks Mozilla and OO.o
14) A large Bill for extra MS libraries.

Ah, but all that will be LINUS' fault. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607292)

Any security problems? Talk to Linus.

Any spyware got installed? Talk to Linus.

Remember, in MS-Linux, it is Linus who will bear 100% of any vulnerabilities. You will not be able to blame Bill, because he didn't code the kernel, LINUS DID.

MS-Linux will be sweet.

YaST support for console (4, Interesting)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607241)

Does YaST support running in the console as well as X?

I ask because this is important to many people -- and I remember that a good point of Red Hat's old Linuxconf was that it ran in both the console and X.

In Sun Java Desktop too (4, Interesting)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607265)

Also interesting is the fact that YaST is in Sun Java Desktop. You wonder how they did that?

I wonder how long will it take (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8607282)

for other distribution to use it.
I guess that's what I like about Open Source: Natural selection (and discrimition of non OS). If it's good it's in.

Compare to redhat-config-* (1)

Micah (278) | more than 10 years ago | (#8607284)

I've never used SuSE, but for those who have used both, how does YaST compare to all the redhat-config-* packages? In my experience they are pretty good.
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