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Why iPod Can't Save Apple

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the assuming-they-needed-saving dept.

Media (Apple) 1121

MadMirko writes "MacNN quotes an article from Money Magazine titled Why iPod can't save Apple, which says 'the buzz on the digital music player and "swank" storefronts are masking an ebbing bottom line, noting reduced CPU sales (resulting a shrinking marketshare), decreased profits (in part due to the lower-margin iPod and little-to-no profit at the iTunes Music Store), failure of the iPod to drive CPU sales, failure of the retail stores to increase marketshare, hidden retail store costs, no operational income, and little value in the stock.'"

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Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (5, Interesting)

The I Shing (700142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609354)

Yes, yes, yes, Apple's about to bite to dust, we've been hearing that for years.

Check out the Apple Death Knell Counter [macobserver.com] for links to many, many other articles, dating back to 1995, all of which have experts predicting that Apple is about to go bust.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (2, Insightful)

Krondor (306666) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609400)

And one year they'll be right. It's a definite that one day apple will die. Just as IBM will die, Intel will die, AMD will die, America will die, England will die. Over an infinite amount of time all these things will one day end. It's a definite and provable truth. So yes Apple is constantly about to die, but the question is on who's timeline are you talking?

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609526)

Yeah, but unlike most of your examples, Apple deserves to die. They've been making shitty ass products and using only the adherence of their loyal fanatics to keep them in business.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609607)

Yes, I agreee. America needs to die.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (5, Insightful)

Orkin (61749) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609564)

All you have done is denied the premise of The I Shing's statement; you have in no way refuted it. Semantic arguments are just plain silly...

When someone refers to the immediacy of something by saying "Apple is about to die," they are OBVIOUSLY referring to a commonly accepted understanding of the relative immediacy of the impending collapse. To compare this to the collapse of England or the Sun going nova is just avoiding logical discussion of the topic altogether.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609482)

The only thing that would have topped this article is putting "Netcraft Confirms...." in the beginning of the title.

Well...they do have a point.... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609483)

OS X is based on BSD....

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (5, Funny)

tdemark (512406) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609487)

Yeah, but this article is different... I don't think they used the term beleagered [reference.com] once.

- Tony

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609496)

Am I the only one who read, in part due to the lower-margin iPod and couldn't manage to avoid snorting the liquid I was drinking out my nose?

Seriously, low margin? Ipod? How did those two things get in the same sentence?

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (4, Interesting)

SillyNickName4me (760022) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609537)

low margin != low price. What this is suggesting is that the ipod is rather expensive for apple to make.. soemthing I somehow don't really believe, which makes me doubt the entire article.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609573)

What this is suggesting is that the ipod is rather expensive for apple to make..

Well, yeah, that's exactly my whole point. An Ipod mini is not a $250 piece of gear, okay? And a 40 GB Ipod is *really* not a $500 piece. Don't get me started on their $40 headphone replacements, and $20 engraving. Low margin and apple do *not* mix.

Re:Yes, yes, yes, Apple's dying, blah blah blah (1)

edxwelch (600979) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609586)

On top of that there is an entire industry dependant on Apple. If you are in the graphic design business (I mean the printed variety not web design) then you have to use Apple.

Better link to article! (5, Informative)

amitti (210015) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609355)

Here, you won't have to sell your sole to read it:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/17/markets/freei ntro_ ipod_0404/

-Aaron Mitti

Re:Better link to article! (5, Funny)

BiggsTheCat (460227) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609379)

What about my halibut?

Re:Better link to article! (1)

eclectic4 (665330) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609594)

*eclectic, a women in a man's clothing, throws a stone at you*

Re:Better link to article! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609389)


Here, you won't have to sell your sole to read it:

Oh shit, FedEx already picked up my shoes.

Re:Better link to article! (0, Redundant)

swoebser (148435) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609397)

That's okay, my shoes aren't worth that much anyway.

Re:Better link to article! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609405)

sell your sole

Sell my sole? My fish or the bottom of my shoe?

Re:Better link to article! (4, Funny)

turgid (580780) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609415)

Here, you won't have to sell your sole to read it:

Good. We wouldn't want impared perambulatory function or to have to miss dinner.

Good! (2, Funny)

Dirk Pitt (90561) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609421)

Here, you won't have to sell your sole to read it

I hate having selling my fish to read the news.

Re:Better link to article! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609450)

i don't think I'll have a problem with my sneakers if I went to that link.

Re:Better link to article! (1)

pavon (30274) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609557)

That will only let you read the into, which doesn't say much more than the slashdot blurb.

But gol'darnit fish is much too expensive here in the desert for me to give it up just to read a professional troll.

Apple is dying...again. (5, Informative)

BWJones (18351) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609357)

Yet at the same time, Google has reported [google.com] an increase in the percentage of Mac users using Google. HP has licensed [slashdot.org] the iPod for distribution and iTunes for inclusion on HP computers. And furthermore, Apple appears to be making huge headway [vt.edu] into the science and technology markets as well as gaining steam again in the higher education environments. Finally, a significant portion of the scientists I work with are switching platforms from Windows to OS X.

So, from where I am viewing the market from the perspective of an end user, Apple's market position is looking pretty good to me. This article appears to be another one in the long chain of prognosticators predicting the demise of Apple Computer, but what they always miss is the disproportionate influence the company has had on the personal computer industry. Hey, where would Microsoft get all their R&D from if not for Apple?

Re:Apple is dying...again. (-1)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609412)

Microsoft "iPod Killer" to launch this year [reuters.co.uk] .

Excuse me whilst I laugh. I'm laughing now.

Remember when Microsoft positioned Windows 2000 Datacenter Server as a "mainframe killer" [com.com] ? I remember a lot of sysadmins laughing back then. Microsoft sold fewer than 1,000 copies of Datacenter Server before withdrawing it from the market.

Apple has solved the problem of how to play digital media on the go. They can build their empire on that, and that alone.

Re:Apple is dying...again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609517)

Microsoft sold fewer than 1,000 copies of Datacenter Server before withdrawing it from the market.

Withdrawn from market? [microsoft.com]

Interesting story you created there... You (and many sys admins) remind me of some professors of mine. Absurdly anti-microsoft, yet hadn't used a single one of their products since before Win95.

Re:Apple is dying...again. (-1)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609552)

Windows "Datacenter Server 2003" is nothing more than Windows Server 2003 with a few extra trimmings and a substantially higher price tag. Microsoft is trying to profit off of its clueless followers like yourself, who blindly accept the company's word as gospel.

Frankly, if Windows 2000 Datacenter Server was the "mainframe killer," why would they develop a separate Windows 2003 Datacenter Server? Aren't all the mainframes dead by now, Jimmy? I guess nobody uses mainframes any more! Right, Jimmy?

Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Windows User

Re:Apple is dying...again. (1, Funny)

morelife (213920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609520)

Yet at the same time, Google has reported [google.com] an increase in the percentage of Mac users using Google.

Exactly, they're all shopping online for new PCs.

Hey, where would Microsoft get all their R&D from if not for Apple?

If you're going to ingest hallucinogens, at least - offer us some.

Re:Apple is dying...again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609523)

Microsoft research.

They even give some of their stuff away. And other stuff would blow your mind.

Re:Apple is dying...again. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609529)

The author pointed out why the iPod won't save them. One cluster is only huge headway to someone who went from 0 to 1.

+5 for saying good things about Apple, though. Oh, and your personal anecdotes are the most complelling market research released on the subject.

Re:Apple is dying...again. (5, Interesting)

thogard (43403) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609571)

Apple may be dying but I know a large number of people that have recently bought new macs and I've been sending people off to buy macs because I do not answer window questions anymore. At the after meeting Pizza at the local lunix users group last month there were 10 people that had mac laptops out of the 30 or so people.

Of course I'm holding out on buying a new one till they come an Apple [tm] 3 button mouse.

Down with the American dogs! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609358)

You Americans should be ashamed of yourselves!

Detainees at Guantanamo Bay are shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg cuffs with metal links which cut into the skin. Their "cells" are wire cages with concrete floors and open to the elements - giving no privacy or protection from the rats, snakes and scorpions loose around the base. A diet of foul water and food up to 10 years out-of-date has left inmates malnourished. By contrast the camp guard dogs have wooden houses with air conditioning and green grass to exercise on.

But worst of all is the use of vice girls to torment the most religiously devout detainees. Prisoners who have never seen an "unveiled" woman before are forced to watch as the hookers touch their own naked bodies. One said an American girl had smeared menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation!

How dare you call yourselves the land of the free and the defenders of civilization. You make me sick! You are a bunch of depraved lunatics who deserve to drown in pig shit!

Re:Down with the American dogs! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609384)

lol i can't wait for jihad epidsode 2: bin laden strikes back. die you arrogant rubes!

Re:Down with the American dogs! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609508)

Dear Sir,

you are an absolute moron if you think that your troll has any other effect than making armchair Republicans proud.

Re:Down with the American dogs! (-1, Offtopic)

FunkDaddy (556594) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609512)

But worst of all is the use of vice girls to torment the most religiously devout detainees. Prisoners who have never seen an "unveiled" woman before are forced to watch as the hookers touch their own naked bodies. One said an American girl had smeared menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation!
And of course you have proof of this?

Apple... (5, Funny)

Azadre (632442) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609359)

Going out of business for over 28 years

Re:Apple... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609387)

Man...they need a shirt of that at ThinkGeek!

I love that!!!

Am I first? (-1, Offtopic)

thealpha (308746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609361)

Yeah...maybe

APPLES (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609362)

Apples are tasty.

Don't worry nutballs, we all know how "anti-apple" Money Magazine is.

Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609363)


How many tech companies (which were media darlings) imploded during the Dot-Bomb? Apple wasn't among them and they've been "Dying Since 1976". Hell, even one of the latest tech poster-children ( Segway [segway.com] ) is sucking rocks. Apple has a core (no pun intended) market and a loyal customer base.

These analysts have an intangible they can't convert to numbers on the spreadsheet: customer loyalty. No user I've ever met has the same passion for Dell, Compaq or Microsoft.

disclaimer: I'm an Apple fanboy; bought a ][+ in 1981 (which still works!) and a variety of Macs along the way.

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (2, Interesting)

Krondor (306666) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609437)

...No user I've ever met has the same passion for Dell, Compaq, or Microsoft..

You've clearly not been out much.. zealots come in all forms don't think Apple to have them all.

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609528)

Please show me a link to ANYONE being a Dell zealot. I dare you.

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (1)

ShavenYak (252902) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609554)

Does the "Dude, you're getting a DELL" guy count?

Damn twenty second delay.

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609527)

Passion clouds vision.

Paying $3000 for a $1000 computer is real smart. yep

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609589)

That comment would make sense if the same computer was available for $1000, but it isn't. Have you REALLY looked at a $1000 PC that's remotely comparable to a dual G5? If you find one, it's going to have lots of substandard and inferior parts. But biggest thing of all, it's going to come with Windows. As shocking as this may seem to you, some people think OS/X is enough better than Windows to be worth the additional cost.

Re:Sheesh. "The Sky Is Falling" (2, Insightful)

SillyNickName4me (760022) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609575)

I think all the things you say about loyal userbase could be applied to Commodore as well.. yet they died like a decade ago due to lack of vision and marketing stupidity.

OSX (5, Interesting)

mod_critical (699118) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609372)

I still think OS X is going to save Apple. It may be a slower propegation than this narrow analysis on the iPod and iTunes, but from what I have seen it has been creating more and more demand for Apple products.

Just locally, I have been spreading a "Mac Fever" to many of my collegues. A friend of mine turned me Mac this past summer after leaving an iMac with Panther on it up in our office all summer. He was working out of town for several weeks, and I used it regularily. I would have never wanted a Mac running OS 9, but now that I've used Panther...

After he got back I had to return to my Winblowz box (as I cannot use StuidoMX or Photoshop on Linux =[ ). After that I was fevering for a Mac hardcore. I finally was able to pick up a new G5 around Christmas time.

Ever since, I have been estatic about its performance, beauty, and stability. This has lead to antoher PowerMAC for the office, and two iBooks between my friend and I. The other people we work with are seeing how well our Macs help us get our work done, and are now looking to buy Macs of their own.

At other places I have worked I see the same thing happening. Someone gets a Mac, and six months later four or five other people have gotten not just one, but usually two, for office and home.

Of course, a computer is more expensive than an iPod, so this growth will be slower, but I see it occuring in force all around me.

Re:OSX (1)

Krondor (306666) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609493)

... as I cannot use StuidoMX or Photoshop on Linux

Yes you can use Photoshop in Linux [codeweavers.com] , but I'm not sure about StudioMX.. Quanta is getting very good though you should check it. I also thought I heard something about Adobe taking Linux commitment seriously, does anyone have a link to back me up?

Re:OSX (4, Interesting)

oscast (653817) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609555)

"I still think OS X is going to save Apple."

As if Apple needed "saving"

The company could use a healthy dose of growth but they are certinly not it need of "saving".

Panther? Last Summer? (1)

ksdd (634242) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609559)

Either you're in the southern hemisphere, or the guy who left his iMac got a copy of Panther pretty early...

Re:OSX (0)

Turd Rippleton (558149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609562)

Sorry but "Mac fever" isn't so contageous around the world as it is in your area. The issue is not only price, but most companies have standardized with microsoft products for delivering rfp's, flows, common documents, etc. In addition, gamers do not have "mac fever" because they are not willing to pay the price for a mac, not to mention there is very little game support. Gamers push the PC industry to the next level. Why would I buy a G5 when I can spend half the money and do twice as much?

~Turd has bad karma

Newbie passion, vision (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609581)

I think Mac users have a vision problem.

A lot of you guys are passionate about your Macs for sure but it seems to cloud your vision terribly.

I used a Mac for a while. It was nice looking and stuff but it has about the same problems as any OS. Crashes sometimes, errors, stuff not doing what you want it to.

In short, all operating systems suck equaly. Use whatever is cheapist to get done what you need to get done. That ain't Apple (you're mostly paying for the trendy logo).

Re:OSX (5, Interesting)

spamtrap (84490) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609592)

Yep. Same here. My wife is the Tech for a Geology Dept. at Ohio U. Whe she started there was her and one other Mac person. Now half the department has G5 Macs.

She spends 98% of her tech support time with the windoze folks.

Every time another virus runs amok, she adds another Mac person.. Last time, she got all of the professors in one room and had the ones with the virus raise their hands. Then all of the Mac people raise theirs.. Her Quote. "You are smart people. There is a lesson to be learned here."

For me, the only only time I boot windows is in VirtPC to play poker. Otherwise, I don't even give it a thought

Like she says.. Mac OS X has none of the stability and security that you associate with Windows...

Re:OSX (0)

You Didn't Spellchec (717959) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609611)

Ever since, I have been estatic about its performance, beauty, and stability.

Estatic? What the fuck is that? Is that what you hear when your internet radio station isn't coming in?

LOOKS LIKE SOMEBODY DIDN'T SPELLCHECK! YOU FAIL IT!!!1!!!!

OSX 64bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609613)

I agree with the parent; OSX is going to save apple. Aside from being a purty OS, it's receive attention from its BSD core to its easy of use. I'm willing to bet that the release of a true 64bit OSX will open new doors for Apple.

I'm thinking in the similar sense of when win3.11 went to win95. Remember that day? People lined around the store buying copies of the first consumer 32bit operating system. All joking aside, it launched microsoft into a new world.

I can't wait for Apple can get the true 64bit OSX compiled with the IBM optimized compiler. I can only wonder what 64bit memory addressing can do (not 2x32bit addressing).

I'm Steve and I've never owned a Mac or any apple product.

MSFT buys apple (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609380)

I give it about 2 years before MSFT buys apple. It will be a good move since they'll be able to kill OS X.

BSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609394)

Also, why iPod can't save BSD...

iPod tried to save Apple... (4, Funny)

bcolflesh (710514) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609399)

But in the midst of the rescue attempt, the battery died and couldn't be replaced!

too expensive (-1, Informative)

havaloc (50551) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609403)

Apple's #1 problem is the price. I might of grabbed one if it wasn't so expensive. The second problem is the unwillingness to license (which they did at one time). PC Magazine also said that Jobs did not embrace the games market, which probably has hurt Apple the most.

Re:too stupid (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609455)

Who the fuck moded that lameass troll up?

Re:too expensive (2, Interesting)

BlanketLord (753729) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609469)

It seems to me that the entire PC game market is slowing down. The most popular games now are of the MMO class, most likely due to their addictive nature. With the way console gaming is increasing, I think not pursueing a game market may actually have been a good idea. The thing that hurts apple the most, in my opinion, is the fact that they cannot call their Processor 4 GHZ. The target market is consumers who desire ease of use, but this same market likes big numbers. Apple's big numbers come with an even bigger price tag, which makes it difficult when Dell can offer a 3 GHZ machine for 700 dollars.

Welcome to last year... (4, Funny)

kakos (610660) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609408)

And the year before that...

And the year before that year...

And the year before that year...

Welcome to every point in the past 10 years except NOW.

Re:Welcome to last year... (1)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609485)

Indeed. As already the book of Salomon in the Bible said: "There is nothing new under the sun".

Every year is the year of Linux on the desktop, Apple and BSD are dying and Microsoft will collapse soon.

Re:Welcome to last year... (1)

Ranger96 (452365) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609612)

Good point, but wrong reference. It's actually from Ecclesiastes (written by Solomon):
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 [gospelcom.net]

Earnings (5, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609426)

Interesting because others have estimated that the iPod will add another 15 cents a share to Apple's earning this year which rises to 25 cents a share by 2006.

This is only focusing on the iPod and ignoring all other products in Apple's inventory announced and unannounced which are having large influences in their respective markets.

Facts (5, Insightful)

Lizard_King (149713) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609427)

"Out of the hundreds of people who were waiting outside Apple's SoHo store in the cold to buy an iPod, I could find only one whose positive experience with the music player led him to buy an Apple computer."

This is a strange statement. If the hundreds of people were waiting to buy an iPod, how would they have already had the iPod experience that would push them to purchase an Apple computer? Chicken before the egg here? As with most of the 'Apple is dying' articles we've seen over the last 15 years, this one mixes numbers without context and some strange subjective observations.

Oh yeah, BSD is dying too. And Bluetooth... =)

Re:Facts (2, Funny)

The I Shing (700142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609513)

Geez, that point, obvious as it is, went right over my head, just like must have gone over the head of the analyst.

It's like in HGtG when God exclaims, "Oh dear, I hadn't thought o that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

Honestly - who gives a fuck? (-1, Flamebait)

NotZed (19455) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609430)

Apple have always had mediocre hardware, and even more mediocre software.

The sooner they FOAD ("fuck of and die"), the better. They are and have always been just a leach on the industry.

Re:Honestly - who gives a fuck? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609500)

The words, "Prick" & "Ignorant" comes to mind.

A real post.. (2, Interesting)

thealpha (308746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609431)

The thought that Apple was counting on a music playback device to become a powerhouse is a joke. They are a computer firm, this is one revenue stream not the salvation of the firm. It is more likely that they want people to see how easy it is to use an iPod and then purchase a Mac for integration.
If they were counting on the iPod as their saviour, then they were doomed from the onset of the project.

part of the comments are probably true (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609436)

CPU sales: the G5 may be popular, that is popular for a high end machine, but the more affordable machines, the iMac and the eMac, are in need of a serious upgrade (why not a G5) to make them attractive again - these machines don't sell that well anymore (I don't have inside information, but this could be learned from various reports).

Tom, happy owner of a 2x1Ghz PowerMac

iTunes may save them... (5, Interesting)

MalaclypseTheYounger (726934) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609445)

As a user of iTunes (mainly because I drink way too much soda during the day, and redeem free songs from Pepsi on iTunes) I have grown to really like their service. If it continues to grow (by adding on to their somewhat meager existing library) they will definitely have a new source of income online selling music. From me, anyhow.

And I may just have to go buy an iPod now to hook up to my iTunes service.

Kudos, Apple... you have got a hard-core Mac hater to use your products. I would call that an amazing success.

Except that they don't make any profit on iTunes.. (1)

AzrealAO (520019) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609550)

They've said many times, that iTunes makes them almost no profit at all. It pays it's costs, but the real reason behind iTunes is to drive sales of the iPod, which does have a relatively healthy profit margin.

The iPod (and HP branded iPod) are the only devices that currently play iTunes Music Store content without having to format shift the music.

Another "Beleaguered Company" Story (4, Interesting)

chia_monkey (593501) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609451)

Some of these authors need to get with the times. Just because it was trendy to talk about the "beleaguered company" back in the 90s doesn't mean all those arguements still hold water.

iPod won't save Apple? Controlling most of the mp3 player market isn't good? And this helping iTunes Music Service start up...the FIRST one that all the major labels thought was worth trying and has 50 million downloads? I'd say the iPod did a good job (especially with it's high profit margin).

Oh yeah...I guess the deal with HP doesn't amount to anything either. I'm sure all the top brass at HP was thinking "hm...how can we get more money? Hey, let's go with a product that nobody knows and that won't bring in any money...not for the company that invented it and certainly not for us".

C'mon people...get with the times. The iPod is just one thing. And a damn good thing. It's bringing a lot of money and recognition to Apple. Now add a supercomputer built from G5s at VA Tech, major enterprise software apps being ported over to Mac...um...hello...

Oh, come on (5, Insightful)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609460)

Apple has one of the strongest brands in the world. They have fiercely loyal customers (no, I'm not one of them). They have a reasonable licensing policy for their OS (try and get a family multi-computer discount for XP Home Edition, ha ha). Anything they make with an "i" in the name gets snapped up by said loyal customers. If obscure Taiwanese component manufacturers with virtually no brand image can make money, Apple should be coining it in. Jobs just needs another big idea like the iMac and the iPod and everyone will forget about Apple's demise for a few years.

What they're basically saying is... (5, Interesting)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609473)

...Apple is nothing without the iPod, and the cash iPod sales bring in.

To which I say, where's the companion article about Microsoft's dire financial situation? I mean, if they didn't have Windows and Office income subsidizing all their money-losing products (which is almost everything else they make), they'd be hemmorhaging money in a way that would shame the Pentagon.

By the way, Apple's computer sales are down because the models are stale and a refresh is due (or overdue, in the case of the G5). I've got several thousand dollars sitting in the bank, just waiting for the new G5s to be announced, and I am far from alone. And the iMac and eMac lines were very recently EOL'd and should get updated soon as well.

~Philly

With 4 billion in cash and no debt ?? (5, Informative)

nazzdeq (654790) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609476)

Apple has 4 billion in cash and zero debt. As the Money magazine article stated, Apple makes more money from the interest on their pile of cash than they do in profit. But, they make 60 some million on both. That's 120 million a year in profit and no debt. The guy who wrote this article has an axe to grind and that's all. I would love to be in Apple's position.

Little value in stock? (5, Insightful)

JBMcB (73720) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609478)

Let's see, there's all Apple's IP, QuickTime technologies in MPEG4, a ton of software (OSX, Logic, Final Cut, Shake, i-Software) a fantastic industrial design department, manufacturing facilities, tight ties to Pixar (one of the most successful movie studios) a mature and integrated hardware/software design team, a chain of retail stores (successful or not, it's capital investment) and, currently, the most popular online music store (though not making profit, it's bringing in eyeballs) as well as the brand name Apple, probably as well known as Microsoft.

I'd say there's quite a bit of value in APPL.

Re:Little value in stock? (5, Funny)

zhenlin (722930) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609582)

APPL!?

What does Appell Petroleum Corporation (APPL.PK) have to do with Apple Computer?

You must mean AAPL.

Where can I get mod points... (-1, Offtopic)

J. Jacques (708438) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609479)

...to mod this entire article and discussion -1 Flamebait? Still, I guess Friday is a good day to have the Mac and PC zealots shouting at each other like howler monkeys.

Market share side note (-1, Redundant)

harvey_peterson (658039) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609486)

By the way, did you know that Apple has less than 5% market share?

Apple seems to be coming back (5, Interesting)

emacnabber (682085) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609491)

I go to a major university and have always had the habit of seeing what types of laptops people use as I walk around. In the last 6 months I've noticed a huge increase in the number of Mac users. Yesterday while walking to class, I saw that about 2/3 of the students had Macs. When I started at the university three years ago I really don't remember seeing anyone who had a Mac. From my personal experience, Macs seem to be increasing in popularity.

Blame Games (3, Insightful)

obsid1an (665888) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609504)

Games are what are driving most new PC sales. Most games don't run on macs. Even if they do, the needed hardware is just too damn expensive. Apples are nice computers but they are in a niche market, and that market doesn't really have a need to buy a faster computer every year or two.

I do love Macs... (4, Interesting)

Beardydog (716221) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609510)

I just can't afford a real one. I was raised on them, up until G3s, at which point we stopped buying from Apple, and I started molesting my poor 9600 with third party upgrade cards. Unfortunately, you can only push old hardware so far before it's overwhelming oldness clamps down on any boosts you might be striving for. It's going to be a long, long time before I can afford a new Apple computer, so here I am with a 2.4 Ghz PC I got for 300, playing the living hell out of games that aren't available for the Mac, Photoshopping, Dreamweaving, etc... My poor FrankenMac is living with my mom now, until she can afford a bargain PC of her own to run her home business on. It's too weak/old to run X properly, so she's using 9.1. It's a sad thing to be a huge fan, but be outside their intended user base because I don't have 3,000 to blow on something decent. Reminds me of a G5 parody site: Ask yourself, "Is my money good enough for this computer?"

Re:I do love Macs... (2, Interesting)

The I Shing (700142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609560)

There's a post above by a guy who claims to have paid for his new PowerMac by threatening to sue a junk faxer.

He got something like twelve grand that he split 50/50 with his lawyer, and now he has a new Mac.

Good for him!

non-paid link to article (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609514)

someone (a Karma Whore?) post a non-paid link please...

mp3-player monopoly? (0, Insightful)

lordsilence (682367) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609525)

The fact doesn't change that ipod is considerably more expensive then other alternatives on the market.
I chose to buy a Creative Zen Jukebox due to it's built-in 60gb disk and fair price. It also has superior soundquality compared to the ipod, according to the zen zealots out there (Including me) :).
Appearently it's a normal 2,5 laptop harddrive so it's possible to switch it for a larger one in the future.

For more on the "ipod vs jukebox war" see the forum at devhardware.com [devhardware.com] .

Does Apple really need to be saved? (5, Insightful)

imperator_mundi (527413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609533)

Apple is posting profits => Apple doesn't need to be saved.

Market share does matter only if you're from Redmond and/or your plotting to rule the world, "normal" corporation are just after money, and money is just what Apple is making.

Could the Walkman have Saved Sony? (5, Insightful)

H8X55 (650339) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609535)

Yeah - i think this is much ado about nothing. I wouldn't write Apple off at the moment. Using stats w/ declining computer sales is a little suspect. Couldn't we say the same about Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, and IBM? The iPod, if nothing else is advertisement for Apple Technology. The G5 running Panther OS seems like a very strong combination of hardware/software. And i might wager than PC owning consumers buying iPods just might consider a Mac the next time around the block.

I wonder if the iPod could actually save Apple. It's not that I think Apple needs saving, but more so, question whether or not a $300 mp3 player could revitalize a company. Did Sony need saving when they released their Walkman? Did Nintendo need the Gameboy the rescue them form extinction? Nope. These companies used these products to become even more powerful than they already were.

Don't worry. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609536)

Bill Gates and Microsoft will save them.
like he did the last time [com.com] .

Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said today that the software giant will invest $150 million in Apple and will develop and ship future versions of its Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer, and development tools for the Macintosh.

Gotta keep that second platform for Microsoft office open for business!

the death of apple - the longest death in history (0)

spamspam (56954) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609545)

now i know why i don't subscribe to money magazine - idiot writers

Why iPod Can't Save Apple? (4, Insightful)

mccalli (323026) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609549)

Why iPod Can't Save Apple? Easy - because it doesn't need saving.

Cheers,
Ian

woohoo (0, Redundant)

Steamhead (714353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609551)

In other news, apple's death is predicted yet again! Honestly this is another spin on an old storym nothing new here.

Could someone post the text? (1)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609577)

I'm not going to give them a cookie. Bad cookies. Bad!

Microsoft Fanatics Lashing Out (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8609588)

The VT Cluster.
The Microsoft Virus/Security Nightmare.
And now iTunes/iPod.

All three have had bizzaro 'lash out' stories like this one. As Apple continues to come out with hit products and MS's problems continue to grow, the die-hard MS journalists are showing their nature.

Apple isn't going to go bust... (2, Interesting)

shepd (155729) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609595)

Any more than Pepsi is going to go bust.

No matter what you're talking about, unless it's a government service, there's *always* a long-term underdog. Or so has been my experience.

Heinz? Hunts.
Frito-Lay? Humpty Dumpty.
Philishave? Remington.

etc, etc.

That all being said, the Apple platform, as currently sold and marketed, simply can't get a large marketshare. Their target audience (People with enough money that "good enough" isn't, and the monied disenfranchised) simply isn't big enough to get them out of the spot they're in.

oh no! (0)

negacao (522115) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609597)

oh no, apple is dying!

(again)

Typical (2, Insightful)

HarveyBirdman (627248) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609602)

This is why I stopped reading most of the mainstream financial magazines- article after article where the author's bias was so blatant it made you wonder if it was meant to be satire. Now when it comes to investing style, that's fairly subjective, and articles like that are basically editorials advocating one style or another. But when the "factual" reporting becomes biased, it's useless. Unfortunately, pretty much all news media is just as useless.

Apple Computer (1)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 10 years ago | (#8609616)

Proudly going out of business for 24 years.

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