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New Nano-ITX Boards Shown At Cebit

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the lust dept.

Hardware 228

Subartik writes "The new nano-itx boards from Via have been shown at the CeBit show in Germany. It looks like it will be a suitable platform for all kinds of small form factor devices. See VIA embedded and Linux Devices for the specs and pictures" An anonymous reader points to PC World articles about the Nano-ITX board itself as well as the first system which will include it.

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Linkage (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623595)

Looks like the first system to be built with this chip will be precisely twice as long as the chip itself!

MODS: If you don't get it, don't mod it down.

Re:Linkage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623639)

I don't get it?


Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623643)

MODS: If you don't get it, don't mod it down.

Re:Linkage (1)

Momo_CCCP (757200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623681)

and most probably fourth as expensive (for price varies as the square of the surface, as far as chips are concerned).

Re:Linkage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623748)

Someone explain this to me, thanks.

Re:Linkage (1)

Krunch (704330) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623843)

It seems the first system [] using it will have a CD-ROM drive. Now look at the first link.

Ironic Advertising (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623599)

I load up the PC World article [] on nano-tech and what ad do I see? That's right, an ad for ENIACS [] on the cheap.

imagine a beowulf cluster of those... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623817)

it would fill up all of soviet russia!

Re:Ironic Advertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623840)

You still see ads? How retro. Friend, it's time to get your adblock [] on.

Perfect size for a media center? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623601)


Re:Perfect size for a media center? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623645)

There is a perfect prebuilt system [] for a media centre as well.

Perfect size for a... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623746)

Home PBX with Asterisk.
Part of a smart home security system.

my dream (4, Funny)

wed128 (722152) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623602)

i can finally realise my dream of cramming a computer onto my bike!

I can see it now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623610)

"Man, all this biking has made me hot... AND BOTHERED! Time to crank up the ole computer..."

*switches on generator*

*begins pedalling very, very slowly*

"Ugh... all strength... in pedalling... motion. Not... enough... for hands... and wrists..."

useless to me (-1, Flamebait)

drwho (4190) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623624)

useless to me. No PCI, PCMCIA, or ISA slots? Seems like just a toy.

What I'd like is a small board that has at least one slot for $50. It doesn't have to be fast. 300 mhz would be ok.

Re:useless to me (1)

stecoop (759508) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623668)

Yeah - reminds me of the late past away EMachines (now Gateway) that soldered the CPU to the board.

When the boards get smaller along with PCI cards that are half-height then I'll show more interest.

Re:useless to me (5, Informative)

markclong (575822) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623680)

It does seem to have a mini-pci slot on the bottom according to this [] . This could make for one cool car computer for DVDs, mp3s, and GPS navigation. Low power consumption, low heat dissapation, and good performance for audio and DVDs.

Re:useless to me (3, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623781)

useless to me. No PCI, PCMCIA, or ISA slots? Seems like just a toy.

With built-in IDE, USB, sound, ethernet, and video, what do you need a PCI slot for? And considering the trend micro-ATX boards took, you can expect to see dual or quad ethernet and SCSI support within a few months.

Yes, I realize devices other than those three exist, but if you need them, you've probably missed the point of such a small board... Low power, passive cooling, quiet, small and portable... Loading it up with other toys (such as throwing in a high-end (and hot, and power-sucking) video card for gaming) kinda removes most of the advantages. If you want a "real" high-end desktop-class machine, you still need to get a standard ATX board.

And if you really need some expansion capabilities, you always have USB - You can get just about anything in a USB form these days.

Re:useless to me (0)

quelrods (521005) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623787)

how is this a problem? Everything is integrated. It would make a great car computer!

Re:useless to me (1)

Krunch (704330) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623805)

What about a Soekris [] ? It has mini-PCI.

Re:useless to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623876)

I have a couple soekrises. The miniPCI slot has wireless. The PCI slot one has NOTHING in the PCI.

Oh, via USB (using a 4801 or a PCCARD in the 45x1 series) gives me digital audio out (thank you mr edirol) []

Why would I want a PCI slot that was designed for rather large desktops anyway? It seems like a toy.

Were the nano-ITX to have a slot, perhaps somehting a tad more robust than PCI would be good. VME boards used to take quite a bit of industrial shaking. ISA would pop out at the least vibration.

USB looks like a grand interface - I can read lots of IO, A/D and IR via a festival of USB and rs232 ports all attached via one USB plug.

Re:useless to me (2, Insightful)

Pike65 (454932) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623844)

As long as someone has the brains to slap two ethernet ports in it it'd make a handy firewall/router in a convenient itty bitty size. The box I have currently doing routing is an old IBM PC Server and it's so big I have to keep all my stuff away from it in case it undergoes gravitational collapse . . .

Re:useless to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623878)

Not a replacement for an extra ethernet port, but one could always attach one of these []

Re:useless to me (1)

Pottsynz (756353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623902)

The main reason I'd want such a small board would be some sort of set-top box project involving MythTv or such like. Hence a pci slot is necessary for a tv tuner, well unless they start putting those on motherboards too (unlikely).

Pictures (5, Informative)

JPriest (547211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623626)

Mini-ITX has some pictures here []

Re:Pictures (3, Funny)

ManxStef (469602) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623687)

Yeah, I love this one [] . It seems to defy the universal law that toast always lands butter-side down, and cats always land on their feet. Or maybe they're inferring that it's a pussy magnet? Either way, I want one ;)

(apologies to MiniITX for the impending bandwidth onslaught)

Re:Pictures (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623702)

They are the same people that built a computer inside a Windows XP box [] a while back.

My head hurts, again. (4, Insightful)

gklinger (571901) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623636)

Let me get this straight. We've got ATX, Extended ATX, FlexATX, WATX, Mini ATX, microATX and now Nano-ITX? How is anyone suppose to keep this straight? What a pain in the atx. I will say this, these boards are getting pretty small. The article gave the dimensions as 3.7 inches by 5.9 inches by 6.3 inches. Nanode must have invented a debigulator.

Re:My head hurts, again. (3, Funny)

Rinikusu (28164) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623907)

All - ATX
Evil - Extended
Fucking - Flex
Women - WATX
Make - Mini
Men - Micro
Nuts - Nano

Re:My head hurts, again. (3, Informative)

gooberguy (453295) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623913)

Nano-ITX is 12cm x 12cm. Oh, and you forgot to list Mini-ITX. :)

Embedded (5, Funny)

oO Peeping Tom Oo (750505) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623637)

Wow! This'll open the door for much more efficient/interoperable embedded computers! Just think about it: A more advanced Big Mouth Billy Bass!

Re:Embedded (1)

WaterTroll (761727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623649)

Please allow me to retrieve my wooden baseball bat.

notice the AES hardware encryption... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623652)

Somebody needs to write a Linux driver for that shit! That would be so badass. The Eden chip is sweet and all (low power usage, low heat emission -- so no CPU fan) but it's not nearly as computationally capable as Intel or AMD's latest and greatest. But I bet if the Linux loopback encrypted filesystem had a driver for that chip, it would fly in comparison to even the fastest PIII!

Re:notice the AES hardware encryption... (1)

dont_think_twice (731805) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623682)

Somebody needs to write a Linux driver for that shit! That would be so badass.

no diggity

Re:notice the AES hardware encryption... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623834)

the chip has a standard x86 instruction set as far as i can tell... all the mini-itx boards load up linux fine anyway

Re:notice the AES hardware encryption... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623896)

Go back and read VIA's webpage (linked in the /. story) about the PadLock encryption thingy. That's not normal x86 instruction set!

More news and pictures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623656)

Check out [] for more info on this and a soon-to-be-released Nanode design.
Oh, in anticipation of the inevitable Beowulf post, scroll down the mini-itx page a bit...
Well, mini-itx based rather than nano-itx, but still.

The Nanode System (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623658)

at Mini-itx,
Nanode []

IPv6 (2, Interesting)

Zathras26 (763537) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623670)

A few people earlier today were wondering why anyone would need IPv6, since IPv4 "obviously has enough address space". Developments like this should pretty clearly demonstrate that that's not the case. It probably won't be too terribly long before even your fridge will need an IP so you can program your refrigerator to know when it needs to order more groceries and the like. And that's just practical applications; toy and game manufacturers are going to go nuts with this.

Re:IPv6 (0, Offtopic)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623744)

You know, it's not that hard to buy the food yourself...

Re:IPv6 (1)

Zathras26 (763537) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623792)

You know, it's not that hard to buy the food yourself...

No, it isn't, but having your fridge order it and then deliver it will save a lot of time and hassle, so it's going to happen eventually. We've already got home grocery delivery in some areas -- you order your groceries thru the grocery store's web site, then have them deliver it. This is for people like me who find it either too time-consuming or too much of a hassle (or both) to go to the grocery store.

Re:IPv6 (Worse than you think) (3, Interesting)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623814)

A few people earlier today were wondering why anyone would need IPv6, since IPv4 "obviously has enough address space". Developments like this should pretty clearly demonstrate that that's not the case. It probably won't be too terribly long before even your fridge will need an IP so you can program your refrigerator to know when it needs to order more groceries and the like.

Absolutely. In fact, your fridge might demand an entire subnet. Smaller, cheaper boards drive appliance makers to a federated, modular architectures in which every new function has its own CPU. Your fridge might need range of IPs addys if it has an ice maker, RFID-reading intelli-chiller, home-message center, Kalory-Kounter terahertz sensor array, Phreshness Gas Sensor, Open-Door SMS alert sender, remote shopping list VPN website, etc.

Its just much easier to make a bunch of modules that sit on a network than create a bloatware central system that has wires for every conceivable add-on function.

Re:IPv6 (2, Insightful)

Migrant Programmer (19727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623823)

Please explain to me why my fridge needs a publicly addressable IP.

Re:IPv6 (1)

Zathras26 (763537) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623852)

Maybe it wouldn't... I suppose household appliances could do their thing with private address space. But I was just trying to make a point, that IP-enabled devices are going to become ever more-widespread, which was one of the implications of this new form-factor. Most of the new gadgets and toys that have it will require IPs for one reason or another, and at least some of them won't be able to do their thing with private addresses (e.g., cell phones).

Re:IPv6 (1)

JPriest (547211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623901)

In case my grandmother needs technical help with it and I don't want to walk her through it over the phone?

More VIA based garbage (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623672)

No thanks!

The Pineapple system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623683)

As this [] picture shows it would be good for Suse [] users

Heat? (2, Insightful) (233303) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623700)

Anyone know how they plan to cool the CPU? Passive or active cooling? I am not an expert on VIAs CPUs at all. Hopefully they wont be as bad as AMDs first 1GHz...

And are there any cases ready to deliver, that support this new "standard"?

Re:Heat? (4, Informative) (233303) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623716)

I'm sorry, RTFA!

"None of these processors require a cooling fan, which means that the PC can be substantially quieter than other computers based on processors requiring cooling fans."


Re:Heat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623723)

it uses a heatsink, just like the other Eden chips on the current mini-itx boards...

Re:Heat? (2, Informative)

Illissius (694708) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623728)

Passive, that's the entire point. Their 1GHz CPU consumes 7W. (Yes. Seven. Which happens to be the same as Transmeta's Efficeon.) By comparison, Intel's current ~3GHz P4s consume around 70-80W, and their new (Prescott core) P4s over 100W.

Re:Heat? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623743)

and the 533 MHz Eden chip only use about 2 Watts... too bad they don't make laptops with this chip (at least i don't think they do)

Re:Heat? (2, Interesting)

JPriest (547211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623923)

And a 1GHz via C3 is also comparable to a 400 MHz celeron.

Re:Heat? (2, Informative)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623869)

The thing consumes 2.5Watts. For comparison, a 3.2GHz P4 consumes approximately 100W, a current Itanium-2 approximately 150W, and a Pentium-M "centrino" 1.4Ghz chip: 28W. So, to answer your question, hell, you could attach a single flattened penny to this thing and it would keep it from overheating :)

Pictures (2, Informative)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623733)

Here's some pictures and specs [] from the Nano-ITX PC that is selling.

Re:Pictures - stop the teasing (1)

Prisoner 9 (763730) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623813)

Ah!!!!! Pictures. More pictures. I've been looking at pictures of these since NOVEMBER 2003. The puddle of drool on the floor is already deep enough to support a diverse ecosystem of fish. STOP TEASING US. When will these things be shipping so we can play?

Unknown risks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623739)

I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude to these Nano-ITX boards. I think the long-term health risks of using these are unknown. There are some scientists that think inhalation of these motherboards can cross the blood-brain barrier. Remember the Slot 1 fiasco and all those babies born with appendages? Let your buddies go with the bleeding edge and if they don't sprout a third eye or six finger after a few months, you can start implementing safely (and cheaper).

Re:Unknown risks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623826)

Just as long as there are no flipper babies.

Re:I claim it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623762)

You can only call interplanetary dibs if you can see the planet as you call it. Just like calling shotgun.

Re:"If he committed no crime in his home country" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623763)

You fail to see the big picture. For instance, several books are prohibited in Iraq, Iran, and several other countries. Should employees be extradited to face death penalty in those countries for selling books that are prohibited there?

It's the same thing. You can't allow laws from one country to affect citizens of another or the most restrictive laws from any one country would apply to all Netizens. That's not wise.

Re:I guess that'll show em. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623764)

I feel that from an administration standpoint with a large number of hosts it wouldn't matter if you were using RedHat, Gentoo, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, or any other *nix for that matter as long as the machines you were running were using the same distro.
You haven't actually been an admin at a company with a large number of machines, have you? I worked for a large aerospace company and our Management (he wasn't even a PHB) wanted to know why we had an average of one admin for 20 machines when HP said one admin should be able to handle 200. Then HP explained that those 200 machines were absolutely identical -- same exact hardware, same exact OS patch level, and same exact applications. In the Real World, we had no two machines alike and thus needed the 1/20 ratio. And this was all the same brand of hardware and OS! Each department was different, which basically made vacation and illness backups a matter of "pray they don't call you." The admins who had the easiest time of it were those who worked on BSD boxes; the VR4 boxes were all over the map; even the users understood that if their admin was away, they were better off not bothering the backup on call for any more than password resets because they'd as likely break something else as fix your problem.

Granted, if you ran an all RedHat shop or an all Mandrake shop things would be easier than simply an all GNAA/Linux shop, but the same would be true for an all OpenBSD shop vs an all FreeBSD or NetBSD shop. But if each department is free to buy what they want I'd rather find who-knows-which-BSD on the box than who-knows-which-GNAA/Linux.

Take it one step further; share what you filter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623765)

DSPAM is one of these statistical filters (like spamprobe and CRM114) that can perform virtually perfect filtering of spam/non-spam you receive.

Now that you are free of spam yourself, may I suggest that you take it one step further and share your data with the anti-spam community; the WPBL project [] lets many users report the IPs sending them spam and non-spam in realtime using a couple simple scripts installed in procmail.

Our central database then publishes a real-time list of spam sources (the IP blocklist). Unlike spamcop, WPBL is entirely based upon automatic decisions made by statistical filters, 24/7. The resulting blocklist is already used by many ISPs; and you can also use it to block spamming IPs at your own server.

This isn't news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623766)

We already read the same exact thing, but in different words and headline over a week ago. This new article brings nothing new to the table except for a slightly misleading headline.

The's forum.**

** - Not that a 15 year old is less intelligent than anyone else, just young people tend to not have their heads glued on straight when it comes to business and law. Wisdom takes time to build.

John Doe lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623768)

That seemed like an odd comment, certainly they are doing this with permission from the record companies, much as iTunes did.

In Australia they also rise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623769)

Of course it depends which way your head is up, or down - sometimes they go sideways in both directions.

Re:That's okay - Holy cow 40 Million lines of code (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623771)

Give MS a frickin' break....MS said there is going to be something like 40 *million* lines of code...

Just out of curiosity, I counted the lines of code (both c & assembler, all processors) of the 2.6.4 kernel. It is less than 5.5 million.

40 million lines of code. There's all the reason I ever need to not use it.

With 40 million lines of code, you never fix bugs, the best you can hope for is to relocate them to a really obscure place.

Re:It's more than just the engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623772)

I had a problem with my '99 cavalier; the engine would drop it's RPMs by several hundred every once in a while; almost, but not quite, enough to stall.

Took it in to the dealer, they said 'is the check engine light on?'

'Nope,' I replied, 'but here's what it's doing...'

'Sorry,' came the reply. 'If the check light's not on, there's no diagnostic codes for us to look up. We can't fix it unless we know what's wrong.'

Re:Very cool, but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623773)

Something to consider about Japan and their rise in technology, is that since the end of WWII, they haven't had a military to take up financing, (or resources, or R&D, etc..) thus leaving the government, and the culture as a whole, to focus on something business and technology.

Re:This is news??? Who the fuck cares! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623774)

"Why is slashdot determined to report every single trivial detail when it comes to Microsoft?"

They're trying to prove to the world that Microsoft is incompetent and evil. Those of us that use Windows must all be real morons who don't know shit, so they're hoping that by pointing out that Steve Ballmer double-parked we'll finally "see the light!" It wouldn't bother me except that it is generally assumed that my choice to use Windows 2000 wasn't voluntary. Slashbots think that Microsoft's monopoly put a Windows box on my desk at both home and at work. Yeah, there might be some truth to it. But seriously, if Windows was the big lump of shit that the people stuck in the past imagine it to be, I wouldn't be able to do 3D rendering on it.

I agree with you that the petty "anything that can be spun against Microsoft" campaign is childish and obnoxious, but in this case, it was nice to find out why Hotmail was down. It's also nice to know when the next big worm breaks. Slashdot's helped me stay protected for years now.
I just hope one day Slashdot will take Microsoft a little more seriously instead of the righetous BS that I need to be running GNAA/Linux even though my work software isn't running on it.

*sigh* This post isn't going to be visible for very long. Pity. At least it felt good to let it out.

A distributed shell ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623776)

... was mentioned a few months back in one of the magazines I pick up almost monthly (forget which one out of the several it was).

I think the shell was called dsh. I believe this is the project site:

Are the aims of this fault tolerant shell and dsh the same? I'm not a programmer, but I'm trying to teach myself *nix system administration.

Eventually I'm hoping to cluster some older x86 systems I'm going to get at auction together for a Beowulf cluster. It sounds to me like one if not both of these two shells might come in handy!

Re:Media player an essential part of the OS??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623777)

IIRC, that's basically what the Commission said - right after RealNetworks demonstrated how to strip WMP from the OS. I'm amazed MS even bothered claiming it - I can only surmise that (a) they have non-geek lawyers or, (b) "we tried that lie with IE, and the dumb judge bought it, so let's try it again and see if we befuddle those dumb Euros".

Does this sound familiar? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623778)

Microsoft (circa 2001): "With this new licensing model, you buy "software assurance" so if a new version is released in the next two years, you're entitled to a free upgrade"

Uh huh...I see that's working out nicely...

Internet "Piracy" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623779)

A freind of mine was preaching to the choir (me) about how inappropriate it is that the RIAA is calling mass copyright infringement "piracy", and how it is an inappropriately biased term given the evils of Blackbeard and the like. Since I agreed, but like my rants to be backed up by better facts, I did some research on piracy of the "Argh, me hearties" kind. To my surprise, it almost fits, if you grant that copyright is "property", Cyberspace is a "place outside the jurisdiction of any State", and that mass copyright infringement falls within "act of depredation". (See what the UN has to say [] about the Jolly Roger type stuff.)

Skimming the web for some history on this, it seems that the idea of the laws against piracy arose slowly to deal with the problem of crimes committed outside of any national jurisdiction. I was wondering if Mike has any thoughts on this parallel, and what it may imply about how cyberlaw may evolve.

Re:The real problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623785)

I think the best answer the 'If nobody would by this stuff...' argument was:

Spam works on the level of 1 in 10,000. The general population contains a far higher rate of mental illness, senility, and retardation.

You'll never cure spam by 'education' of any sort. There are some people who are just too crazy or too stupid to learn.

aussie, aussie, aussie, ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623786)

.. conducted the study after Australian researchers announced in 1999 that they had made a computer model showing it was theoretically possible for beer bubbles to fall down the side of a glass

trust it to be australians that worked that one out first.
something tells me that experiment was most likely conducted on a friday nite after a few beers at the lab.

Re:I wonder if this will catch what Mozilla misses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623790)

Thunderbird's latest builds have an improved spam filter using some ideas from SpamBayes, it's substantially improved from the older filter.

Re:It's Okay, I guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623793)

I am not a Nerd. I am a "digitician":)

Re:um.. great? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623796)

"Shakespeare can put all England on stage in Henry IV, I am confident that we can put on the whole of Middle Earth..."

Oy veh...Note that putting the story of Henry IV on stage took Shakespeare two very long plays-- Henry IV parts one and two together are over seven hours, uncut. Even then, the scope of the plays is much smaller than the War of the Ring. Yes, the historical backdrop of Henry IV is a series of wars and rebellions that cover most of England as well as Brittany, but the realy story is much smaller. It's about the (contested) king, his son Hal, and a few other key court figures suh as Hotspur and Falstaff. The real plot is the search for honor by these characters, NOT the wars and the fate of the kingdom. Anyway, to cover the full scope of the war/political story, you have to include two more plays, Richard II and Henry V, which would bring the stage running time to over twelve hours.

So Shakespeare did NOT put "all England" on stage in Henry IV...he was much too smart to try that. Pity the West End producers can't learn from the Bard.

Legality of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623797)

What's the legality of An Anti-DoS Tool That Returns Fire [] ? It sounds pretty vigilante to me, but what sort of laws would be applicable to it?

Re:I guess that'll show em. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623798)

GNAA/Linux really has very few problems with userspace backward compatibility. What did you have in mind?

Merely my brief experience with Gentoo, when they first upgraded glibc (from 2.2 to 2.3 iirc) and broke half the packages, then downgraded it again and broke everything else. This is really a pet peeve: aren't minor versions supposed to be compatible? And a zillion similar but smaller-scale annoyances, well expressed by Bill Paul many years ago [] and the years haven't eased the pain all that much.

And BSDs are more likely to introduce binary incompatibilities

Clearly you haven't used the BSDs. You may have library incompatibilities between major versions, but just install the earlier "compat libraries" and you're set. I upgraded from FreeBSD 4 to FreeBSD 5 -- a huge upgrade, over 2 years in the making -- and all my software just worked, even complex stuff like KDE and Mozilla that had been compiled under 4.x.

If my Slinky taught me anything . . . (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623800)

One kink and it's trash can city.

Re:I know you need to be paid for your time, but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623801)

All down to the cost of labour and the costs of running a business, I'm afraid.

I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in the UK, the cost of new PCs is making PC "repairs" uneconomic if the repairer wants to charge rates similar to those of plumbers and the like (to put some numbers on that, a typical rate for a plumber is 60GBP per hour, and a new PC costs from 300GBP, with monitor and preloaded copy of whatever the latest flavour of Windows is; how much work do you reckon can do in under 5 hours?)

Of course, this does discount the stupid and the penny-wise-pound-foolish, whom are probably the best cash cows out there for any business.


Re:Sounds like inferior cephalopod nerves to me (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623802)

Actually, cephalopod nerves aren't that amazing. They're no faster that than the nerves in your body. It's just that cephalopods never developed myelinated nerves. Myselin insulates the nerve and allows for much faster signal propogation. The large size of cephalopod nerves is simply an alternate way to get higher transmission speeds.

Either way, nerves only transmit at a few hundred miles an hour. Even assuming these flex wires aren't as conductive as a bulk gold wire, you're still looking at a transmission speed at a significant fraction of c.

Silicon and metal wiring operates at speeds millions of times higher than biological nervous systems.

Apple ./. IBM Microprocessor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623803)

... Territo said. "It's like the difference between an Apple microprocessor and an IBM microprocessor."

Hmmh, and I thought Apples G5 Microprocessors come from IBM...

In Monopolistic America (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623804)

In monopolistic America, you tolerate faulty shell.

Re:Just go out and buy one... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623806)

This project is only economical if you have old laptops sitting around. If that's the case, you probably won't have enough CPU/RAM to install the latest version of debian.

I have built picture frames out of old pentium-class laptops ('bout $100 off ebay, or cheaper if you shop around your own town), and they have no problems running the latest Debian. Just don't run X!

I use zgv [] to cycle through the pictures. Works great, *and* is less filling.

Re:Different threading model (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623807)

Not exactly. All this means is that threads do not migrate preemptively, nor do they migrate while blocked or switched out while in kernel mode. Threads only migrate if (a) the thread itself wants to move to another cpu or (b) the thread is returning to user mode and the userland scheduler decides to migrate the thread to balance the load out (which only applies to threads associated with user processes since no other type of thread can 'return to usermode').

Kernel threads almost universally stay on the cpu they were originally assigned to. High performance threaded subsystems, such as the network stack, are replicated. That is, the network stack creates multiple threads (one per cpu) and those threads do not migrate because, obviously, they do not need to.

Generally speaking, the purpose of making thread migration explicit instead of automatic is to partition a larger data set across available cpu caches rather then cause the same data to be shared amoungst all cpu caches. The processors operate a lot more efficiently and SMP scales a lot better. Most people do not realize the horrendous cost of moving threads between cpus because the cache mastership change is invisibly handled by hardware, but the cost is still there and still very real.


FTSH is an exception system for shell programming (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623808)

What's with all of the people claiming that FTSH will ruin the world because it makes it easier to be a sloppy programmer. Did you freaking read the documentation?

To massively oversimplify, FTSH adds exceptions to shell scripting. Is that really so horrible? Is of line-after-line of "if [$? -eq 0] then" really an improvement? Welcome to the 1980's, we've discovered that programming languages should try and minimize the amount of time you spent typing the same thing over and over again. Human beings are bad at repetitive behavior, avoid repetition if you can.

Similarlly FTSH provides looping constructs to simplify the common case of "Try until it works, or until some timer or counter runs out." Less programmer time wasted coding Yet Another Loop, less opportunities for a stupid slip-up while coding that loop.

If you're so bothered by the possibility of people ignoring return codes it should please you to know that FTSH forces you to appreciate that return codes are very uncertain things. Did diff return 1 because the files are different, or because the linker failed to find a required library? Ultimately all you can say is that diff failed.

Christ, did C++ and Java get this sort of reaming early on? "How horrible, exceptions mean that you don't have to check return codes at every single level."

Where will the Boehemians sit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623809)

Seems a little techie for the cool, grungy Boehemians, reading their Kerouac. Where will they go?

Tons of uses... (4, Interesting)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623835)

Here's some ideas:

-Homebrew $200 firewalls (routers, gateways, etc) with much, much greater capabilities than those little D-Link units.
-Personal NAS devices that, again, are mega-cheap and tiny
-home automation devices: c'mon, who hasn't dreamed of fully automating their house?
-motorcycle-based GPS system anyone?
-cheapass public terminal systems: incorporate one of these into an LCD screen?
-smaller tablets, laptops with longer battery life? Sure there's not much computational power, but if you're just doing surfing or doing office chores...
-add a single wifi chip/small antenna and you have instant access point. I bet Starbucks would love this idea. Instant, easy, cheap wireless internet.

Now, personally, I think these things could be great building blocks for doing distributed computing research. You could build a rather large network of these tiny things into a standard ATX tower, and have yourself a portable beowulf cluster, or hell, nice little units to experiment with distributed computing ideas. I can see it now: a couple of 8-drive HDD external bays, with each slot housing full systems!

Portable Beowulf cluster? WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8623851)

Would you rather plow the same area (an full ATX box) with one strong ox (a fast CPU) or 1024 chickens (these units) pulling the load?

Cost? (2, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623838)

Didnt see it mentioned how much these things will be.

If they are more then 100 bucks or so, they wont be too useful for the 'embedded market' they are trying to enter. ( plus they are still a tad too big and power hungry for that.. )

Re:Cost? (1)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623909)

Not necessarily. Embedded systems are typically running Pentiums or slower CPU's. Just looking at the size of this board, it looks almost the same size as a PC104 form factor. If via could develop to that spec there may be a market for a very high performance embedded system. Their processors could also be designed for much lower power specs if you aren't as concerned with performance (run at quarter speed or lower).

Also, if you could purchase an embedded system for only $100 that would be a pretty good deal. Most embedded systems go for much more than a standard PC because they are not as much of a commodity.

Re:Cost? (1)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623920)

Big? Power-hungry? 2.5 watts is certainly not power-hungry. And as for big, this thing's 6x6". It could fit in my cable modem.

No DVI :( (1)

another_henry (570767) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623866)

I love the form factor but when will motherboard manufacturers as a whole produce something with integrated video that supports DVI for flat-panel displays? Integrated video sucks for games of course but it's fine for office work, and that's exactly where the sharp text from an LCD screen is needed most. The DVI port supports analog screens too, so why isn't it being used?

Re:No DVI :( (1)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623906)

LCD monitors can use VGA interface, as almost all have a VGA input or a converter cable. Compare this with CRT monitor, which usually lack a DVI-VGA converter, and you realise that you reach a bigger market with VGA than you do with DVI.

Re:No DVI :( (3, Informative)

sprprsnmn (619113) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623918)

It doesn't need DVI as it has 2 LVDS ports on the board itself.

More info (1)

ispel (266661) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623905)

See here [] for a hi-res picture (warning, it is 600k ).

In case you were wondering, it uses laptop-style SODIMM memory [] .

Ok blah blah blah (0)

MajorDick (735308) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623914)

I love when a new product is announced they get me all excited, I mean I would buy a couple of these tonight IF I COULD FIND A FRIGGIN PRICE ! People do generally like to know what something costs , unless youre buying a Bose Acoustic Wave radio, then youre better off not knowing what it costs.

DVD Playback (1)

colinramsay (603167) | more than 10 years ago | (#8623922)

I see it's got MPEG playback built in, but what's the real-world performance of these systems going to be? This is significantly smaller than anything that's gone before and it could be a pretty sweet device to sit under my TV... if it performs right.
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