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Online Consoles Marginalizing PC Gaming?

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the gaming-unplugged dept.

PC Games (Games) 603

MattW writes "The gist of this AP/Miami Herald article seems to be that consoles going online will mutate the MMORPG space. Already, there is word that PC game development is withering, even though as a preferential PC gamer I see the best games ever. Is the console destined for superiority, or will the ubiquitous need and superior user input of the PC keep it as a viable game platform?"

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Console vs. PC (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679182)

Well, there is always going to be the camp that would prefer to play games on their "PC" simply because they do not want a separate game box or they just don't play many games at all except for the occasional exceptional title. For instance, my work takes up most of my time (80-90 hours/week) so I really don't have much time or interest in playing games, but when Halo came out for OS X..... :-) Well, lets say productivity dropped a bit on the weekends, but I really don't have much interest in purchasing a game console.

I suppose however that the console market may eventually become the place for the pre-eminent titles especially given the kind of hardware that will be going into the next generation systems (G5s in the next Xbox?) and that PC titles will become ports. Of course we did see this approach with Halo, but only because MS screwed it up for us by purchasing Bungie, thus delaying the launch of Halo for Mac/Win and killing it all together for Linux.

Re:Console vs. PC (0, Redundant)

seaswahoo (765528) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679210)

I'm part of that group. I occasionally feel like playing a game (Rise of Nations, Age of Empires, etc. and YES, Solitaire/Minesweeper :P), but I don't feel like it's worth spending the money on a dedicated system considering I wouldn't be using it that much.

Re:Console vs. PC (5, Interesting)

deathazre (761949) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679247)

I'd personally rather play on my PC because of the extra control that having a keyboard and mouse gives you. There's only so many buttons you can put on a controller, and a mouse gives you an accuracy in just about anything that involves aiming that a joystick cannot and will never be able to match.

Re:Console vs. PC (1, Informative)

Acidic_Diarrhea (641390) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679370)

Mouse and keyboard combinations are available for the PS2 that I know of and I believe that there are keyboards for the Gamecube.

Re:Console vs. PC (5, Interesting)

ferralis (736358) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679248)

Absolutely, the PC will be around for a long time due to its extreme flexibility if nothing else.

However, I believe that we'll see many more games that work on the console and work incredibly well on the PC as well... kind of a "yes, the 'rabble' can play, too" in a way, although I have a feeling the consoles will be catered to more and more over time. After all, one must follow the money.

Still, I believe that as long as PC's are appreciably faster and featureful (and of course they will be- it takes more effort to stay ahead of the curve, and greater flexibility) all will be well.

My vision is that long-term OS game engines supporting multiple platforms including consoles will take over the world, and that those of us with PC's will be able to "run games" much like MUDS of the 90's and today but with rich 3d and eventually VR-like capabilities.

Who knows, with Maya et al, maybe that day will be sooner than I had thought. :)

Re:Console vs. PC (2, Insightful)

Skater (41976) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679341)

One thing - for me, the constant concern about video drivers, new video cards, faster processors, etc. is a turn-off to PC gaming. I understand that can be an advantage (only upgrade what you need to), but still it's a hassle.

The console systems have an advantage in that everything is set and the game is written for the console, which should remove any compatibility problems. I find this appealing.

Disclaimer - I don't own any consoles and rarely play PC games - my most frequent game (once or twice a week) is Doom, in part because I know my computer is plenty fast enough to run it smoothly under X Windows.

--RJ

Re:Console vs. PC (2, Insightful)

baudilus (665036) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679250)

I saw this debate coming a long time ago, and I saw consoles winning. The reason is the hardware - if you're developing a game for the Xbox, you know everyone that has an Xbox will have the exact same hardware, and see your game just as everyone else will. PC titles will always have hardware issues because different people have different hardware. One person may see things smoothly and clearly while another will see them as very choppy. When internet play is involved, I'd like to thing I'm owning the newbie because of my skill, not my PC.

I personally prefer PCs, but more and more people are moving away from the computer for things they can get elsewhere. Oh well.

Re:Console vs. PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679282)

I think that there will always be two camps- While the Console side has dedicated hardware, making better use of what hardware it has, as a class, there will probably never be the equivalent of the 499.00 add in video card to keep a console on the bleeding edge- as a one purpose machine, there is little incentive to create a secondary market for upgrades.

Re:Console vs. PC (2, Insightful)

k.ellsworth (692902) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679294)

.... just thinking... new video card for my pc, more ram, a new mobo/cpu.... no less than $900... just to play...

my current machine is a celeron 2.4, 512ram DDR+ radeon 8500 is more than enough to work... but not for gaming...

a PS2, is a gaming machine... unblocked (with especial chip) less than 250 dolars... and runs all the games for it... no more ram isues, no DX dramas.

and for MMORPG, add the harddisk/network card for the PS2 ($120). and voila...

a game console, is a better price/benefit than a computer gaming plataform...

Re:Console vs. PC (1)

socram (625524) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679295)

How are we going to play LAN games now? battle-net? i just can't see that working on consoles for now... plus, i just got a radeon 9700pro and i want to take the juice out of it ;)

Re:Console vs. PC (0)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679302)


Consoles have some nice features but I like my games with a keyboard and mouse, just as nature intended.

Re:Console vs. PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679407)

Working 80-90 hours a week? Damn, you will be dead within 10 years.

Price of console vs. price of graphics card (4, Insightful)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679408)

Its interesting that the price of a new console (PS2, XBox, etc.) is less than the price of a highest-end graphics card for a PC. Given that most people have old PCs, buying a console is the cheapest way to get into gaming. Add to that the comfort of a couch and big-screen TV vs. a desktop, I can see why many go for consoles.

Re:Console vs. PC (1)

AndrewCox (180128) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679412)

For instance, my work takes up most of my time (80-90 hours/week) so I really don't have much time or interest in playing games

Perhaps if you didn't post on slashdot while you were "working", you wouldn't need to "work" 80-90 hours a week. I'm hardly awake 80-90 hours a week!

How do you have time to eat and bathe, let alone play games?

Posta Firsta (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679183)

Posta Firsta

YFI//THE HOLE IS GREATER THAN THE SUM OF ITS FARTS (-1)

(TK)Dessimat0r (668222) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679211)

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_ ___ __ ___ ___ l '=.= '' =.=' l Trollkore - the premier
_ ___ __ ___ ___ l . .-....-. . l Slashdot trolls
_ ___ __ ___ ___ l )(o_/ll\_o)( l
_ ___ __ ___ ___ l/. . .oo. . .\l Trolling heaven
_ ____ (o._ .'.' (__. ./||\. .__) since 1911
_ _ _____) \_______\_\UUUUUUU/_/_________________,
_(_)o8o8{}(___\\_________o\___________\ \_________)
_ ___ __ )_/ .'.'.' l-UUUUUUU-l ACCEPT NO IMITATIONZ...
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_ ___ __ l. .s. .b. . l o . o . .'. . . .l SAY, UNABLE TO
_ ___ __ l.. . . .'.x.l. . .l. . . r". ..l MOVE FROM YOUR PC
_ ___ ___ l .c. .". . l. . .l .". . . . l \, DUE TO YOUR STOMACH
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_ ___ _____ l . . . . .l'o'l. . . . . lc. . .k. l LIVE ON THIS PLANET,
_ ___ _____ /"-.,__,.-"\'o'/"-.,__,.-"\"-.,_,.-"\ ALL YOU BRING IS
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_ ___ _____ \_P|_I|_M|_P/ \__|__|__|__/ \_|__|__/ STUPIDER THAN APES!

Like a pack of wolves, you surround the carcass
of Linux, hoping to digest any living flesh from
it in a desperate attempt to appetise your
swollen parasite infested stomachs. You make me sick...

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Re:Posta Firsta (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679225)

why bother? Hasn't the novelty worn off yet?

Nintendo Entertainment System vs IBM-PC (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679192)

Yeah, sounds like the same flame war my friends and I had in the late 80s only this time I'm on the PC side.

Down with the American Fascists! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679193)

You Americans should be ashamed of yourselves!

Detainees at Guantanamo Bay are shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg cuffs with metal links which cut into the skin. Their "cells" are wire cages with concrete floors and open to the elements - giving no privacy or protection from the rats, snakes and scorpions loose around the base. A diet of foul water and food up to 10 years out-of-date has left inmates malnourished. By contrast the camp guard dogs have wooden houses with air conditioning and green grass to exercise on.

But worst of all is the use of vice girls to torment the most religiously devout detainees. Prisoners who have never seen an "unveiled" woman before are forced to watch as the hookers touch their own naked bodies. One said an American girl had smeared menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation!

How dare you call yourselves the land of the free and the defenders of civilization. You make me sick! You are a bunch of depraved lunatics who deserve to drown in pig shit!

Re:Down with the American Fascists! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679228)

Let's hope that stuff is true. Those guys deserve it.

Re:Down with the American Fascists! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679320)

IN the land of the free and home of the bloody brave, it used to be 'innocent until proven guilty' ... if someone slaps u during a blackout you dont f*** the first guy u see when its light .... u find who did it and do him ... if some prisoner there IS proven guilty, take him to the grave, but until that atleast let people consider them human ...

Wow can I sign up for this torture? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679231)

vice girls..hookers..naked bodies dancing--I may head to Afghanistan and take up arms against those evil Americans if they would capture me and torture me like that!

Attn All Lockheed Martin Employees (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679203)

Valley Forge PA office Third Floor Men's Room 2nd stall from the left I left a huge 16 inch turd. This gastrointestinal jewel is so precious i used no toilet paper and did not flush so you would have the pleasure of viewing it. I recommend pictures and maybe even some "spear fishing" and taking a nibble. Enjoy!

Nethack or Dungeon Crawl ain't on the console (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679204)

Sorry... but I just don't see a PS3 version of Nethack coming out. PC games will never die. :)

Re:Nethack or Dungeon Crawl ain't on the console (1)

SmackCrackandPot (641205) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679436)

I thought noeGNUd [linuxgames.co.za] looked pretty cool. Having a multi-player version with a high-score page could make things interesting.

Ask Rev. Lovejoy (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679205)

Flanders: Is the console destined for superiority, or will the ubiquitous need and superior user input of the PC keep it as a viable game platform?"

Lovejoy: ooh, Ned. Short answer no with a but, long answer yes with an if.

Games: Topics Beat To Death (4, Insightful)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679206)

This topic has been absolutely done to death.

It's pretty clear that neither form of gaming is going to "die".

Re:Games: Topics Beat To Death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679274)

Agreed. Looks like the editors needed some more hits to fill their quota before the end of the month so they decided to start a console vs PC thread.

What a shitstorm this will become.

Re:Games: Topics Beat To Death (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679276)

It's pretty clear that neither form of gaming is going to "die".


Maybe not die, but the Big and Almighty PC is going to have a big fall... A PC can be used as a VCR but only nerds do that. Average people like simple (although many don't know how to use the VCR :-\) machines that do their job simple and efficiently.
We will see this trend happen in all fields. Of course , there will be many people that prefer the a multi-purpose tool, but I think that the trend will be make games for consoles and port it for the PC instead of the other way around...

Re:Games: Topics Beat To Death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679366)

Uh, actually it isn't clear.

One market segement is trending up, one is trending down.

Guess which.

Re:Games: Topics Beat To Death (1, Insightful)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679369)

On the contraty. PCs seem to be dead set on doing things which consoles will always do better. Such as pretty graphics.

PC was always a casual gaming platform. One games simply because he already has the hardware there in the PC. But buying a $400 graphics card can not be considered casual. This gaming 'requirement' is going to put a significant damper on 3d gaming on PCs if consoles can grab multiplayer gaming correctly.

Much easier to carry an X-box to a LAN party than a PC.

Non-3d intensive games will still flourish on the PC.

Old School (5, Interesting)

Analogy Man (601298) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679209)

I may be an old fart about this, but I think many of the slower more thoughtful strategy games are more fun than the twitchers. These games will always be on the PC side. I can see the migration where FPS's will tend toward the console.

Re:Old School (3, Interesting)

spellraiser (764337) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679306)

I may be an old fart about this, but I think many of the slower more thoughtful strategy games are more fun than the twitchers. These games will always be on the PC side. I can see the migration where FPS's will tend toward the console.

I think you are right about the strategy games; the 'serious' gamers who play a lot of slower games don't usually buy consoles; and I'm not sure that there's a big incentive for the console developers to push into that market; except perhaps in Japan, where there seems to be a market for everything.

FPS's might and might not gravitate towards consoles; that will, however, only happen with better controls for the consoles - playing FPS's on anything other than a keyboard/mouse is an exercise in frustration and futility. Consoles will either need provide these, or come up with something better - if that's even possible ...

Console FPS. (1)

Colosse (522266) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679351)

Well I belive that PC FPS are by far more superior to their console counterparts for one reason : Mouse aiming. It's much faster than the pad. And unless they add some kind of assist to console, if there ever is a internet server shared by PC and console players, the poor console guys will be cannon fodded.

No console games for me (0, Flamebait)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679216)

I don't even have a TV to connect a console up to, and haven't had one in years. The idea of buying a piece of hardware just to play games on is mildly offensive to me. But the high levels of DRM (note, that I have purchased every single game I've played in the past 5 years) on them is extremely offensive to me.

So, no console games for me. If they can't make them for a PC (and preferably Linux), I don't need to play them.

Re:No console games for me (1)

SlamMan (221834) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679257)

Of course you don't need to play them. Its a game.

Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679218)

Just look at the trends.

The expensive general desktop computer boom is over. The future growth is in smaller consumer friendly products like iPods, cellphones, and PS2s.

Re:Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (3, Insightful)

rhiorg (213355) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679284)

...unless of course you're into the whole "getting work done" thing.

Re:Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679330)

Wow, what a dumbass.

Almost everyone who needs a desktop system already has one. The majority of desktop sales are to people who already have them.

The explosive growth of the mid-nineties is over.

The vast majority of the people in the world who don't have desktop computers can't afford them. Low cost computing appliances, like consoles, are where the growth is.

Moron.

Re:Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (1)

sirdude (578412) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679396)

I'd say that the boom is not at all over, but is still progressing... The basic idea is that the personal computer is just getting smaller and more personal every year. iPods, cellphones, digital cameras and PDAs will all be amalgamated into something like a smartphone (which is well on it's way in this respect). Re: Consoles.. I think that the basic selling point of consoles is that

a) You don't need to buy a PC
b) It offers cheap multiplayer gaming without need for internet access (which is also possible now).

But I don't believe that console games offer any better an experience than a PC game. As broadband takes over, PC's become cheaper, and it gets to the stage that every person needs to have one, the two reasons stated above will also be nullified.

Regardless, I don't think that the PC gaming industry is withering at all. In fact, with untapped (commercially) markets in countries such as India and China (which are PC-rich), I'd say the PC gaming boom is yet to take place..

Re:Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (1)

spellraiser (764337) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679404)

Uhh - isn't that because everyone already has a desktop computer? :-)

Geeks always need gadgets; the smaller devices are just what they (and others) are buying right now ...

Re:Desktop Computer Are Becoming Less Relevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679421)

And how you are going to put stuff in your iPod without a PC? There aren't many CD/DVD players with MP3 encoding and firewire output...

Are there MMOGs that allow consoles AND PCs? (4, Interesting)

jjsaul (125822) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679220)

I love to be able to play against my console-loving nephews with a mouse-keyboard setup. Maybe I'd finally stop giving them the boundless amusement of slapping around Uncle Jim!

Re:Are there MMOGs that allow consoles AND PCs? (1)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679300)

FFXI allows both, on the same servers.

Re:Are there MMOGs that allow consoles AND PCs? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679326)

Yes there is at least one. Its called Final Fantasy XI, available on both PC and PS2

What about the workplace? (4, Funny)

Bander (2001) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679223)

If games stop coming out computers, how will we play them at work? My boss isn't going to be okay with me bringing in a PS2, but he doesn't mind if I play a round of Crimsonland [crimsonland.com] to blow off a little stress now and then.

Bander

I hope not ... (2, Interesting)

jasonsfa98 (648370) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679229)

We've already spent hundreds or even thousands on our PC's for gaming. No need to HAVE to buy a console either.

IRC, ICQ, Voice Comms, email, website's, they all help the PC be a more complete package for gaming (see The CPL).

PC's rule in my book.

Re:I hope not ... (1)

Knetzar (698216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679332)

I think the idea is that you spend a few hundred on a console INSTEAD of upgrading your PC.

I think it will stand here (5, Interesting)

Guardian of Terra (753181) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679230)

Because, show me game console equivalents of: Civilization Warcraft III ADOM :) Games of these genres does not exist on consoles, afaik. And i really need them, not something else. (I have never heard there are good FPS for consoles, while i don't know - not interested in) Consoles have their game-to-kill-weekend games market, but serious gamers will always like more intellegent devices.

Re:I think it will stand here (1)

Knetzar (698216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679380)

IMO consoles are best for games that are more social. I use a gamecube and a ps2, but usually I only play multiplayer games with others in the same room (Worms 3d, smash brothers, mario kart, etc...)

never heard? (1, Interesting)

mixtape5 (762922) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679399)

I have never heard there are good FPS for consoles

one word will do... Halo

It will eventually take over... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679234)

Were are moving out of the era of the generalized computing device and into the era of the specific computing device. The are cheap enough now to make them to do specific things. PDA's, Cell Phones, PVR's, Game Consoles, Web Terminals... These are where Linux will win, because it will run on any of these things with minor modification, no need to wait for the "software vendor" to expand to the platform.

Mod'ing games, eh? (5, Insightful)

superhoe (736800) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679235)

Mod'ing games is an aspect most hit games utilize to the maxx. And it rocks.

Unless the consoles can make mod'ing (especially on advanced level like on Operation Flashpoint, mmm I love that stuff) as easy as on PC, PC definitely won't die.

MS's XBox (2, Insightful)

SubtleNuance (184325) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679238)

When will IBM, HP, Dell and the like turn on MS for directly competing with them. The number 1 rule of honest business is 'dont compete with your customers' -- Im sure that MS's effort to ruin PC based gaming (by creating the Xbox in the first place and directing developers) should be a sign to the BigPCVendors that they are getting stabbed in the heart.

PC (3, Insightful)

blogboy (638908) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679242)

Me, I have to take the PS2 out of the media cabinet and hook it up to play. With the PC I can take a break from work and crank up UT2004, or even get my gaming fix from a quick game of Columns. Since I'll always have a PC, I'll just keep that hardware current, piece at a time, to support the latest games, rather than saving up for PS3. The PC is functional *and* fun.

Better screens? (3, Insightful)

Talence (4962) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679245)

I'd say that PC gaming offers various advantages including better screens, more flexibility in terms of choice of hardware, more flexibility in application (not just gaming, but also e.g. word processing), storage of games (harddisk), etc.

One could argue that consoles could be gearing towards the above-mentioned advantages too, but wouldn't they inherently be turning into PCs then?

Re:Better screens? (2, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679432)

I would agree. Some games that require small text (such as massive multiplayer games) REQUIRE a high res monitor. Your standard NTSC or PAL TV will not cut it. So untill HDTV because as cheap as owning a console, there will always be a PC gaming market simply because of the availability of the PC monitor.

Us vs Them!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679246)

I sent this to their webmaster:

I find it somewhat humorous that on this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/seminar/events/security.m spx [microsoft.com]

the photo you use is that of a Macintosh PowerBook G4 15" (with the Apple logo on the back of the screen Photoshop-ed out), on a page about security summits and programs. While I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which OS is more secure, it's mildly humorous to find a Mac being used to advertise Microsoft's security, even if it is subtle.

Respectfully,
Andy Ringsmuth



I'll try and keep an eye on it and see if they decide to change the photo.....

Without PC games (3, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679252)

The difference between PCs and consoles is not the input but rather that PCs don't need a modchip in order to run user-written code (even though unsigned code and signed code run in separate but equal sandboxes in newer restrictions-management-enabled operating systems). Only PCs allow programmers to make games without getting a license from the hardware manufacturer, and console makers tend to grant licenses only to established publishers, reinforcing the oligopoly. Without PC games, how is anybody supposed to begin to learn to develop games?

Thats a very "simplified" approach (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679254)

750,000 XBOX live users. Great. And how many non-console users? Decline my left foot.

Looks at UT2004 for example. How many keys do you regularly use there? No. Consoles simply aren't going that way. Unless you get a keyboard. And a hard drive. Oh wait, I've turned my console into a personal computer.

MMORPGS don't all charge either. Look at Neverwinter Nights.

The article is badly written, takes an over simplified approach and is obviously written by someone who has never played a game "online".

Thank goodness for Microsoft, then... (2, Insightful)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679256)

My understanding is that they are stepping in to save the PC [com.com] by uniting the X-Box and Windows game development environment.

Re:Thank goodness for Microsoft, then... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679280)

No, they are trying to save Xbox by making porting easier.

Re:Thank goodness for Microsoft, then... (2, Insightful)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679310)


That would be the first thing I'd really cheer Microsoft for doing in a long time.

Of course, if XBox2 ends up being PowerPC [theregister.co.uk] , that might still make things difficult for the x86 game world. PowerPC isn't merely a different set of opcodes...

suddenly more productive (2, Funny)

Phrack (9361) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679262)

Since I don't like consoles, if all the games went that way, I'd suddenly have more time to do other things.

Re:suddenly more productive (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679374)

Nah, you just spend more times on the games you already have & enjoy. Show of hands, who here still plays Master of Magic?

Jaysyn

Depends on what you play (3, Insightful)

Hekatchu (684465) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679266)

To me Its a matter of the game, simple, FPS-type and jumping and bouncing like a mad rabbit type of games are absolutely best when there is console with decent gear involved. Then again, complex RPG:s (or did they already die 10 years ago?) and games where you are allowed to think before you act are in my mind always going to be better with real computer environment. But its only my opinion :)

Re:Depends on what you play (1)

Jubedgy (319420) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679304)

Personally, I don't see how anyone can play FPS games on a console (wrt the controls). I've tried goldeneye (a couple years ago) and halo (more recently) and both of them just seemed to have very kludgy controls compared to the keyboard and mouse.

If you had players on computers play against players on consoles, who would win? I'd vote for the comp guys, but then again I'm pretty biased.

Re:Depends on what you play (1)

Hekatchu (684465) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679364)

I think you are right there about FPS games, my mistake. I was just thinking about mindless shooting and associating it with Xbox, sorry ;)

Re:Depends on what you play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679381)

The console guys would be utterly crushed.

There's no beating a mouse and keyboard for any FPS. This may seem a bit self-righteous but; I'd go so far as to say that people who will argue that console controllers are better than keyboard/mouse just haven't gamed enough with a keyboard and mouse. They're just flat out wrong.

Re:Depends on what you play (1)

JonasG (629786) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679345)

Exactly. I play a lot of strategy games, and I've never played one on a console. At the same time some types of games are not good to play on computers. I think they are just good for different types of games.

Because of that I think computer and console games will co-exist. Sure, consoles may take a big piece of the market, but the computer games will survive.

Re:Depends on what you play (1)

sindarin2001 (583716) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679401)

I couldn't agree more with you. I am what I consider a well rounded gamer. I like consoles for some sects of games: simpiler RPGs, some action, fighting, racing, platformers. The controls just feel right. Then there's RTS and FPS for the computer, great controls for more complicated movements or more precise movements. Oh, and then there's Descent...I have never been able to play that game with less than 16 buttons, so I can never see something that complicated on a console.

PC will dominate (1)

aquabat (724032) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679278)

Last time I checked, I couldn't emulate a PS2 game on an X-Box.

Granted, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but you can hit a lot of things with a hammer that aren't nails and still get the job done. Try that with an impact drill.

I think the versatility of a general purpose machine will win out in the long run over a specialized machine.

Two words: LAN party (5, Insightful)

bliSSter138 (636922) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679290)

I host a local LAN event and even if/when I've seen consoles at said events, there was only one. No one that I know wants to lug a 32"+ television around. 17" LCD, oh yeah. Shuttle (or comparable mini-) PC - you bet. I can appreciate where console gaming is headed - it's needed to step up to the level of the PC experience for a while. At the same time, console gaming still, INHO, pales in comparison to gaming on a personal computer.

The types of games that I, and most of our LAN attendees, play on a PC are dramatically different than a comparable console title. The Battlefield and UT2k series are beautiful examples. I have friends with Xboxes that hated UT Championship and I can't even fathom trying to play BF on a game pad. These games still harbor mass followings on the PC platform. At the same time, Splinter Cell is amazing on a console, and marginal at best on my PC.

P.S. - Halo PC ran SO horribly on my system (Athlon 2500+, 1GB ram, 256MB Radeon Pro video), that I invoked MS' 30-day money-back guarantee. They were prompt with the refund so, apparently they are good for something. :-P

Re:Two words: DORK party (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679430)

...aafadfadfadfdads

Disposable Income? (2, Insightful)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679292)

In a supposedly down economy, where people are losing jobs left and right, how do we come up with the cash and time to buy both PC games and consoles?

Well (3, Insightful)

GFLPraxis (745118) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679298)

It seems to me that FPS games play better on the computer, while the majority of other action games play better on the console. I generally buy games for console first, UNLESS the game supports Internet play, in which case I buy it for PC so I can play online. I have Zelda: Ocarina of Time for N64 and I downloaded the ROM of it to see how it'd play on the PC, and slamming keys on the keyboard is vastly inferior to using a controller. On the other hand, I could never stand playing a game like Jedi Knight 2 and Jedi Academy on a console with dual joysticks- I WANT A MOUSE. A game like Zelda: The Wind Waker is better on a console, and a game like Jedi Knight 2 is better on the PC.

console vs. pc (0)

mixtape5 (762922) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679303)

The age of the console is comming. While PC's own the MMORPG catagory right now, the console has many advantages. You are garenteed that your game will work on your machine, Communication through the headset can compensate for not having a keyboard, consoles are cheaper than computers, MMORPG dont take up Massive Memory Ammounts when on a console.

Didn'd /. have an arguement like this going the other day?

If other OSes gain popularity... (4, Interesting)

MolecularBear (469572) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679305)

If other OSes (i.e. Linux) gain popularity in the desktop market, then I would expect even more games to move to a console market. Let's imagine that Linux becomes so popular that it shares the desktop realm with Windows 50/50. Now a game developer must make the game cross-platform. Instead of dealing with issues with one OS, they now have to deal with two. At that point, it seems like it would be much easier to simply develop for a console where both hardware and software are known constants. Anyone else have ideas/opinions about this?

multiple factors (4, Interesting)

Lust (14189) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679315)

I'm very concerned about this. With the console market so strong (and why not, with the cost of a PS2/Xbox system less than just an average-quality video card), I don't see any way a game company can afford NOT to develop for a console. And so will we see the end of games like Starcraft that really can't work as effectively without better UI?

I really hope not, but we've already seen posts about Deus Ex II having a crappy interface that parallels that required for a console.

I had an opportunity to play Metroid Prime recently, given all its hype. I was very impressed with the game from graphics to story, but I got too frustrated by the controls. I couldn't stop thinking how easy these things I was TRYING to do were on a keyboard/mouse combo, but were complicated on the console by trying to press three buttons at once while moving one or another stick. So I scrapped it for Tony Hawk, which is totally suited to a joystick/controller.

Please tell me that PC gaming will live forever :)

Different Demographics (5, Insightful)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679323)

The PC as a gaming platform isn't going anywhere any time soon - and one of the reasons is that the PC Games market is different from the console market. Sure, there's some overlap like there is in any good Venn Diagram, but for the most part it's two distinct segments of the gaming community. For example: A friend of mine will only play PC games. Sure, he's a bit of an elitist, but he's not touching any "inferior console". He plays Call of Duty, Medal Of Honor, Warcraft 3, GTA3 / GTA3 Vice City, etc... My brother-in-law is a fireman, he owns a PS2 and plays Madden 2004, NHL 2004, NCAA Football 2004, SSX2, Tony Hawk's Underground, and has no intention of upgrading his PC to play games on it. There are those of us in the middle, who play both PC and (in my case PS2).

In the end, it's all about the games, not the console. Some games, even the multi-platform port releases, just seem to play better on one platform over the other. Madden 2004? I'd rather play it or any other sports games on my PS2. Unreal Tournament 2004 or any other FPS? PC. Warcraft 3 or any other RTS? PC. Button Mashing Fighting Game (Soul Caliber, Tekken) - PS2.

The PC as a gaming platform is far from dead - there's just too many of them in homes for game developers to ignore. Also, most of the biggest console games (GTA3 / Vice City) get ported to the OC, and in the case of GTA3, the graphics are FAR superior on the PC.

console/pc (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679336)

It's not only consoles or pc that die, it's only users that change.
The market is always changing and reinventing itself.
My generation enjoyed the Vcs2600, then the coleco, then...
Now, most of us feel less like playing.Some will keep playing the same Civilization or Transport Tycoon game after years, other may change for one of these 3D shoot em up which interest resides in the fact you can limit a party to a few minutes without making it less interesting.
Meanwhile, children are being more and more censored and control by their parents (our generation, indeed) and will sometimes prefer staying near the console/pc, depending on their overall mood.

WOLFENSTEIN IS THE BEST FPS. EVER. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679337)



I played Medal of Honor on Playstation and I think it was written for ten year olds.

Plus, I need to listen to iTunes while I play :)

And? (1)

21chrisp (757902) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679338)

750,000 players use Xbox Live

And how many people play online games on their computer?? More than that I'm sure.. Online console games tend to have a much shorter lifespan also. Online computer games tend to stay around forever because for many of them players can also host their own games. Especially given the fact that online console gaming has only been around for a couple of years (discluding the Dreamcast of course.. RIP) one would expect either growth or a market failure. All this says is that online console gaming isn't a failure. Saying that it's taking over computer gaming?? That's going a bit far!

Room at The Top (3, Insightful)

RetiefUnwound (472931) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679340)

A lot of pundits on the topic of console vs. PC seem to keep ignoring a subset of PC gamers - the Power Gamer (we know who we are).

The top echelon of PC hardware will ALWAYS offer better performance than the latest console - and a lot of software houses (Lionhead comes to mind) are constantly seeking to push the envelope - not just graphically but in terms of AI and interactivity.

Consoles are great - but no substitute for the power of a screamin' PC box. Sure, PCs can be a pain in the ass to code for because of the mishmash of hardware on the market - but a lot of gamers will build new PCs to experience the best a new title has to offer. Knowing that this audience exists will keep software houses producing for the PC until there are no more games to be played. Nuff said.

A tetter totter of views (1)

tazanator (681948) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679346)

It will always be a hard call, for the consol there is no driver upgrades and patches or security risks (yet) but the PC has more keys for more control over the game and the ability to add/change the game. For the games to change on the consol they have to take long periods of time to develop (Final Fantasy). For the computer they must be online for updates and downloads (America's Army). Both games have advantages and play great however the question will be do we want to buy new titles often or download new updates. The addition of a hard drive may help some for the consols but the PC will still have the larger control set. I guess the best hardware for the game depends really on the game after all doom got boring until new maps where made, but not having to search for drivers in order to play Final Fantasy made it fun too.

Flawed comparison (1)

megagurka (108291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679353)

Consoles are great for fighting, platform games etc., but I think there will always be a market for PC games that have advanced graphics and a complex user interface. I would never play an RPG like NWN on a console using a TV as screen and gamepad for controls. These games require a PC with high resolution and a mouse and keyboard.

Oh great. Another PCs -vs- consoles war (2, Insightful)

NetDanzr (619387) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679357)

This topic has been beaten to death and beyond, so let me just repeat the most common arguments:
  • Consoles are social gaming devices, PCs are anti-social. In other words, consoles encourage more than one person playing at the same machine, while PCs are much more solitary. On-line gaming is solitary. Thus, only if consoles transform into dumbed down PCs they would able to marginalize PCs as a gaming device.
  • Consoles are living room appliances, PCs are office appliances. There still are games that require a keyboard to play, and believe it or not, there are still lots of gamers who like such games. These games will always remain on PCs.
  • Consoles rely on royalties, PCs don't. It's much easier and cheaper do develop low-level games for PCs than for consoles. For example, I spent all this month playing new freeware adventure games, which were released this month only. That's a month worth of gaming for free. Show me a place where I can easily download a bunch of freeware for a console, and show me a way to install it easily. Independent gaming will always be another strong point of PCs, and there are people who like these games.
As a result, consoles and PCs will coexist in the future. PCs would catter to certain games and certain audience, and consoles to others. It's not my place to comment on the quality of the different gaming genres, but my personal preference would lie with the PCs.

Sure PC gaming is dying... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679376)

IIRC it was supposed to die when the original Playstation was released, or was it the PS2?

Here are some reasons why there will be demand for PC games in the near future:

- PC offers best performance and features. Thus cutting edge FPS games from ID and Epic will be always made for PC first. Current Xbox has Geforce 3.5 class graphics and the Xbox2 won't be released for a couple of years.

- TV resolution is way too small for more complex games like strategy games and simulators. Widespread usage of HDTV is years away, and by that time gamers will be accustomed to the

my future prediction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8679379)

I see in the future that the tv, dvd, entertainment system, theater sound, and computer will all be intrigated into one unit. THis of course means that game consule will disapear. But the challenge is that I dont see that in the near future, we have to go 20 years down the line for that at least to see this become a standard.

Future Mav V. PC arguments (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679387)

person 1: Macs suck because they have no games!!! HA HA HA

PERSON 2: ummmm...the PC does not have any either....whats your point?

Simple Economics (1)

de_boer_man (459797) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679394)

It's simple really. Both will be around as long as there are people shelling out enough cash for the games. When the PC game market becomes unprofitable, then and only then will it die.

Consumers have the power. If they continue to buy PC games, game developers will continue to put the money into developing better games for PC platforms.

It's simple, really (3, Insightful)

Perdition (208487) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679409)

I have played PC games before, although I am absolutely not a "power gamer" by any measure. The problems I saw were ones of investment, maintenance, and learning curve.
For instance, I remember loading a relatively simple game on what was once considered an OK laptop. I came to find out that in order to truly have the game running at anything near a fun speed, I had to add RAM, and quite a bit of it. Now the game no longer costed the original $25, but potentially hundreds more. I didn't like it that much. Plus, most PC games I have seen install scads of undesirable adware, spyware, etc. (I'm sure that things have improved on this front, however), and the unending act of cleaning up menus and doing uninstalls of old games I no longer enjoyed (if the uninstalls went smoothly, which often they did not), just got tiresome.
Another, much more minor gripe: keyboard/mouse/joystick setup. I admired some PC games for their flexibility with all the added buttons that a keyboard brings, but having a dozen keyboard overlays and remembering what alt-shift-A does from one game to another seems a bit much to me.
Once again, if you're a PC demigod with a passionately deep understanding for how to clear up these problems, you probably just think I'm dull-witted. However, I'd rather keep my PC as a productivity tool, and buy the occasional console instead of installing card upon card (among other bits that others could more effectively list here) to play similar (if superior) games. As consoles more successfully go online and increase their power and playability, the role of the PC as gaming machine seems more and more to be that of hard-core hobbyists, and not just people who want to play games.

Drives PC Hardware Sales (2, Interesting)

UpLateDrinkingCoffee (605179) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679414)

The sale of PC hardware is driven a lot by video games... what other reason would I have to upgrade from a 2.4ghz p4 with Geforce4 except to play Doom III with all the snazzy new effects enabled, for example? The next gen consoles might have cutting edge specs now, but so did the Xbox when it came out. Now it's 700mhz processor and graphics are pretty dated compared to the state of the art.

I think if video game publishers ease off of the PC platform, we will see money from Nvidia, ATI, and Intel that will support cutting edge video gaming on the PC.

Another point... (1)

yoshi_mon (172895) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679423)

"...or will the ubiquitous need and superior user input of the PC keep it as a viable game platform?"

While with modern consoles having USB ports they could add a keyboard/mouse, the most obvious missing input devices missing, the major point about consoles is really not that. Rather it's all about the video.

Console video is pretty much all about TVs. And while TVs have become far better than those in the past, they still arn't designed to the level of computer monitors.

Get a copy of FarCry [farcry-thegame.com] and bump up the video modes, on a suitable computer, from it's lowest resolution to it's highest. The change is dramatic. And the best part is that if you can't see it, or any modern game, at a resolution that pleases you that display is only a new video card away.

And while I suppose there is something to be said about playing on a bigscreen TV, any computer gamer worth their salt will know how to hook up their latest video card's TV out and play it like that if they so desire. However I'm betting that most would rather have 1600x1280 at 32bits with their 5.1 sound card pumping out the frags from their desk rather than trying to mess around with anything else.

I truely have no real clue why these moronic pundets keep hypeing the death of PC gaming by the hands of consoles. Over time I think we have a tendency to keep all the games we can. Cards, chess, go, board games, and all forms of sports are still being played and show no signs of dying. Console games will be around but saying that PC games are going away or will even be dimished is silly at best.

Convergance (1)

silverhalide (584408) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679424)

If it isn't already apparent, consoles are already customized PCs. The two platforms will continue to converge. PS2's have hard drives. Xboxes do as well. Both have a form of USB which allows keyboards, they have network adapters... Hell they have available VGA outputs. It's kind of like racing your pickup truck, which can also be used for other tasks, against a dedicated race car. Just doesn't make sense anymore. Not to mention the price/performane ratio seems to be higher for consoles than a comparable PC setup.

No console games for me (1)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679425)

For some bizarre reason, some group of people thought this was flamebait. Perhaps they find the concept of someone not owning a TV too much for them or something.

I don't even have a TV to connect a console up to, and haven't had one in years. The idea of buying a piece of hardware just to play games on is mildly offensive to me. But the high levels of DRM (note, that I have purchased every single game I've played in the past 5 years) on them is extremely offensive to me.

So, no console games for me. If they can't make them for a PC (and preferably Linux) then, as far as I'm concerned, they don't exist.

The true X Box PC (1)

Ciacimus Dali (765652) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679428)

people have commented that the question of which will become dominant rests on what types of games are played (sports games in consoles, rts in PCs) or some other factors. These reasons rest upon the fact that certain games are simply more comfortable to play in a console than a pc or vice-versa so the real issue here is when will the PC be comfortable to use for sports games/fighting games and other games that have always been associated with the console. The issue here is simply a technological one which PCs (being the inherently adaptable, configurable, and fast machines they are) can overcome in time. PCs are inevitably going to be the center piece of all electronics in the house as the Internet slowly becomes integrated in everything from interactive television to my fridge. Since PCs aren't going away, are only getting faster and have the ability to change, it seems to me that people will eventually demand that PCs become more "user-friendly" (for the console people) than it has been so as to eliminate the need for so much machinery in one's house. Better support for joysticks/controllers through changes in hardware (multiple joysticks, fast response, similar designs to current console controllers - which partly exists today), better promotion of the PC as a console alternative, and the ability to play games on a PC with minimal clickling or even no clicking, simply power up the PC and play a game (could require changes in BIOSes or a game aware OS, or an extension of Windows, that loads games automatically and plays with little overhead). In otherwords, when PCs through hardware and software modifications, can emulate the ease and speed of use of consoles - as well as increasing support and variety of controllers/joysticks - PCs might become the only way to go - think X-Box that can run Office and AutoCad without blinking an eye. Sorry for the long-winded post.

My opinion has changed over the years (1)

theLOUDroom (556455) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679431)

When I was in grade school, I used to think that PC gaming was vastly superior to console gaming. Better graphics, more buttons, etc.

Now that I'm an adult, the only games I play are on consoles.

What changed?
I went from windows to linux.
I don't have time to troubleshoot my 3d drivers, soundcard, etc.
Generally, when I want to play a game, I just want to relax.

IMO, the quality of console gaming has increased immensely.
With games like Metal Gear Solid out there, I just don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Couple that with something that "just works" and I'm sold.

Does the two have to be mutually exclusive? (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679433)

What about a console that's designed to interface with PCs from the very beginning? It would be like a regular console system and you'd be able to play it standalone on a TV, etc., but you could also hook it up to your PC to take advantage of additional abilities.

It'd come with a special PCI card of some sort that allows it to connect to the PC. The card would allow for graphics input from the console and high-speed connectivity between the two devices.

You'd be able to see the game on your monitor, in a window if you'd like (very little processing is needed, since the game is still drawn by the console, just outputted to your PC monitor via the PCI card).

The connection will allow your console to, via DirectInput, be controlled by any standard Windows gaming device, including your joystick or your mouse and keyboard. Of course, your gamepad would still continue to work, just in case you're playing a game better suited for one.

The console can take advantage of your hard drive space for saved games and other data. If the game makers are smart enough, you'll also be able to access the console's game media and make mods for the game. The console will read mod data from the hard drive whenever necessary.

The Internet can be directly accessed from the PC by the console's software, eliminating the need for a router.

If the PC console link was wireless, you could keep your console in the living room and still access all of the PC's features. You'd be able to stream your PC's songs and videos over to the console for playback on the stereo system/TV screen.

Basically, you'd have all the advantages of both environments. The console would still be an instant-play device and you don't have to worry about crap like installation or configuration. The console hardware, which actually handles the game, would still be uniform and thus compatibility is not an issue. On the other hand, you'd also get everything good about a PC: Moddability, a lot of disk space, better input methods (at least for first person shooters), etc. Each system provides what it's best at.

ATI and Nvidia's fault (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 10 years ago | (#8679437)

Ok the heart of PC gaming is 80-90% correlated with graphics card and its problems.

I have had top ranked cards from both of these companies. I'll tell you right now... if you game hardcore.... open case and giant fans still doesn't cut it. The driver problems just never ever stop. Look at rage3d forum, it's ridiculous.

If the API is so incompatible with this and that, they should just wait. Wait a long ass time until they can get a solid product out the door. I have returned my new ATI Radeon 9800 Pro in 3 months. My previous Geforce4 card overheated on a weekly basis. I am not alone in this arena.
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