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Creativity, a Problem for the Gaming Industry?

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the play-it-again-sam dept.

PC Games (Games) 522

Steeda95GT writes "A Reuters story reprinted at Forbes.com is an interesting read, saying that 'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games'. It talks about how the ratio of original titles to sequels is dropping dramatically, but it also goes on to say that upcoming sequels (Doom 3, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: San Andreas) will be successful only because their predecessors were."

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Creativity? (5, Insightful)

panxerox (575545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693340)

No, its guts. Guts to try new things to break away from what is known in games, to produce the kind of games that new customers really want. The market is what you make it.

Re:Creativity? (5, Insightful)

BlueCodeWarrior (638065) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693404)

Not just guts to try new things.

Guts to throw your cash into funding for trying new things.

Re:Creativity? (4, Insightful)

ashot (599110) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693418)

Altough I agree that there is a lack of creativity/guts in the industry in general, I disagree with the proposition that a sequel implies that a game necessarily lacks creativity.
I particularly object to slapping HL2 with this label; if you've seen the previews and the screenshots you know that this game will be revolutionary in many respects (graphics/game-play/physics engine/characters), the fact that it is a sequel is not relevant.

Also, what about the the massive multiplayer games? I think they are the future, and the sky is the limit there.

Re:Creativity? (5, Interesting)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693609)

I think you're confusing revolutionary with evolutionary.

Half-Life 2, while great-looking from the gameplay that's been shown so far, isn't revolutionary. It isn't using inverse kinematics for the first time in its physics engine, it isn't the first graphics engine to pass pixels more than once, and it isn't the first game to use vehicles in game play.

It might improve on these things, but it's not ushering in a new era of elements we've never seen before.

Re:Creativity? (1)

jerky42 (264624) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693625)

How about Duke Nukem 4? If/when it ever comes out, it will have to be personally delivered by strippers to meet expectations.

HL2 is derivative. Same character+almost the same situation=derivative, no matter how much frosting is on it.

I think HL:Blue Shift and Op For were excellent games and fleshed out the HL universe. HL2 may be terrific in its own right, but it truly is an incredibly safe choice by Valve.

And this "code leak delay" seems more and more just a front for actually finishing the game (don't get me started about STEAM).

Re:Creativity? (4, Insightful)

Mistlefoot (636417) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693429)

The story starts out talking about Pacman but then finishes with discussing only modern "video intensive" games.

I'd bet that "yahoo games" or popcap games are as popular as the traditional store bought games.

Simulation type games (Monoploy Tycoon - SimCity) aren't touched neither, nor are Sports type games.

This article doesn't really seen to a variety of games at all. Yet it implies that "new" games aren't coming out. They are.

Re:Creativity? (1)

rpj1288 (698823) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693441)

Like Lucas Arts lacked guts and killed Sam&Max before it could be released. *I soooo want the companies to decide if I want to buy a game or not. *Sarcasm, people.

Re:Creativity? (5, Insightful)

JPriest (547211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693462)

I think the problem is the current focus on stunning graphics rather than fun gameplay. The 10 best games I have ever played are all on old systems. Could just be becasue I was younger back then, but that seems to be the case. The future of the current gaming industry is online gaming and LAN parties. No AI is more fun than playing a human.

Re:Creativity? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693509)

you're a fucking idiot

Re:Creativity? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693540)

Posted by michael on 03-27-04 08:01 PM
from the play-it-again-sam dept.
Steeda95GT writes "A Reuters story reprinted at Forbes.com is an interesting read, saying that 'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games'. It talks about how the ratio of original titles to sequels is dropping dramatically, but it also goes on to say that upcoming sequels (Doom 3, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: San Andreas) will be successful only because their predecessors were."

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on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693404)
Not just guts to try new things.

Guts to throw your cash into funding for trying new things.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Creativity? (Score:4, Insightful)
by ashot (599110) on 03-27-04 08:13 PM (#8693418)
(http://www.geocities.com/ashot_petros ian/)
Altough I agree that there is a lack of creativity/guts in the industry in general, I disagree with the proposition that a sequel implies that a game necessarily lacks creativity.
I particularly object to slapping HL2 with this label; if you've seen the previews and the screenshots you know that this game will be revolutionary in many respects (graphics/game-play/physics engine/characters), the fact that it is a sequel is not relevant.

Also, what about the the massive multiplayer games? I think they are the future, and the sky is the limit there.

--
-ashot
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Creativity? (Score:4, Insightful)
by Mistlefoot (636417) on 03-27-04 08:14 PM (#8693429)
The story starts out talking about Pacman but then finishes with discussing only modern "video intensive" games.

I'd bet that "yahoo games" or popcap games are as popular as the traditional store bought games.

Simulation type games (Monoploy Tycoon - SimCity) aren't touched neither, nor are Sports type games.

This article doesn't really seen to a variety of games at all. Yet it implies that "new" games aren't coming out. They are.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Creativity? (Score:1)
by rpj1288 (698823) on 03-27-04 08:15 PM (#8693441)
(Last Journal: 02-27-04 08:08 PM)
Like Lucas Arts lacked guts and killed Sam&Max before it could be released. *I soooo want the companies to decide if I want to buy a game or not. *Sarcasm, people.
Life is not a boolean value, nothing is solidly true or false.
Re:Creativity? (Score:1)
by JPriest (547211) on 03-27-04 08:18 PM (#8693462)
(http://toolbar.google.com/ | Last Journal: 01-13-04 02:21 AM)
I think the problem is the current focus on stunning graphics rather than fun gameplay. The 10 best games I have ever played are all on old systems. Could just be becasue I was younger back then, but that seems to be the case. The future of the current gaming industry is online gaming and LAN parties. No AI is more fun than playing a human.
Humans sure have a strange way of dying.
Re:Creativity? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:24 PM (#8693509)
you're a fucking idiot
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Hi, Friend (Score:-1, Flamebait)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:02 PM (#8693345)
The following is being offered free of charge to all those who feel the need to troll the Slashdot Games section. Please print out a copy and keep it with you at all times. If you follow these simple steps, you trolling is guaranteed to improve.
1. If a game is currently on PS2 and there are plans to bring it out on the Xbox, make sure to claim that no one will want to play that game by the time it gets to the Xbox. For example, by the time Virtua Fighter 4/GTA3 comes to the Xbox, we'll all be playing something new.
2. Use the reverse logic if it is a game only on the Xbox that may be ported to other systems/PC later. Case in point, Halo. Say something to the effect of "I'll wait for the true version of Halo on the PC". "It will be much better than the Xbox version".
3. Constantly complain about FPS on consoles ACCEPT for Goldeneye.
4. Always use Bill Gates name. Act as if he is the one making the games.
By all means, if you run out of clever or interesting things to troll about, just bring up Mr Gates. Lots of people hate him and will be glad to agree with you.
5. Complain about the XBox controller. Even if you have never seen or used it, it won't matter. People will believe you when you say it's big. Be sure and try to provide a testimonial about your wife or girlfriend or kid who complains about the size of it. Also claiming to be injured by the controller can be the foundation of a great troll post.
6. When referring to the Xbox, try to scew the name a bit. Xblox, eggs bocks, the stupider the name, the more favorable of a response you will get.
7. Be sure and mention Japanese and European sales numbers. If you aren't sure what those sales numbers are, go ahead and make something up. Estimate low, most people will believe you.
8. Although Xbox owners seem to enjoy there games, make sure to comment on Xbox not having any games with good gameplay. Although the Xbox does share some ports with PS2 and Gamecube, it's okay to assume that the Xbox version of those ports has poor gameplay as well.
9. Since the Xbox has nice graphics, be sure and find a way to put a negative spin on this. Using the age old formula that states if a game has nice graphics, it must have terrible gameplay, you can convince people that Xbox games are all tech demos.
10. Defective Xbox stories are excellent to use in trolling. The best part is that they require no proof. I find that "the screen just froze up" works great. Occasionally you can use something really bizarre like "My friend bought an Xbox and it caught on fire and burned down there house. Now they are homeless. F*** Bill Gates."
11. When all else fails, lie. There are lots of people who will agree with you just because they hate MS.
Re:Hi, Friend (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:04 PM (#8693361)
I bought an Xblox the other day, and I wish I hadn't. I guess the poor sales number should have warned me (since they only sold 3000 EggsBlockses in Europe, and 12 in Japan). I don't know what Bill Gates was thinking when he designed the controller, but it really hurts my hands. It's way too big!
I was playing a game with it once, and it started vibrating, jumped right out of my hands, and severely wounded a small child. Also, it's strained my fingers so much, I'm starting to have problems 'viewing' my Natalie Portman image collection! I'm going to sue Bill Gates!
Sure, some of the games may have nice graphics, but the gameplay is absolutely shocking. I tried to play Halo, but it's nothing but a tech demo! You may not believe this, but it's actually impossible to shoot! I played for five minutes, and couldn't kill anything at all, so I took the game back to the shop. It has nothing on Goldeneye. I'm going to wait for the PC version, which should be much better.
Also, my son really wanted me to buy a console, so that he could play GTA3, so imagine my surprise when I found out it was not yet released on the Xbox! He had to undergo therapy for several weeks - but I'll get the money back from Bill Gates when I sue him.
I'm going to sell my XSocks on Ebay now. It'll probably cost me a lot in shipping, because it's really heavy. Bill Gates designed it that way, because he likes to hit immigrants over the head with his. I'll never buy another M$ product!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Hi, Friend (Score:-1)
by lemon parties (761941) on 03-27-04 08:21 PM (#8693482)
I guess the poor sales number should have warned me (since they only sold 3000 EggsBlockses in Europe, and 12 in Japan)
It's funny, because ZDnet reported last week [zdnet.com] that over 800,000 units have been sold in Japan, and 2 million units in England alone.
I was playing a game with it once, and it started vibrating, jumped right out of my hands, and severely wounded a small child.
A close friend of mine oversaw the development for the controllers, and he said their #1 priority was egronomic safety. Considering the 3 mW pulse XBox(C) controllers send out, it is wholly impossible for controllers to just "jump" out of a user's hand.
I highly suggest you check your facts before blurting out such shit.
Garage Games (Score:4, Interesting)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:03 PM (#8693350)
The big companies aren't willing to take any risks. That's why there is GarageGames [garagegames.com].
Re:Garage Games (Score:5, Funny)
by Smitedogg (527493) on 03-27-04 08:08 PM (#8693389)
And exactly how is selling 3d Mahjong and 'Marble Blast Gold!' risky? Dogg
Who needs... (Score:4, Insightful)
by jwthompson2 (749521) * on 03-27-04 08:03 PM (#8693351)
(http://jamesthompson.us/)
originalit y and creativity when repackaging the same game and slapping a subtitle on it will rake in millions? The Sims comes to my mind...GTA is in a similar boat in my mind...
Re:Who needs... (Score:1)
by SoLO (91992) on 03-27-04 08:23 PM (#8693499)
I guess shift from GTA1&2 to GTA3 wasn't very "creative".
Re:Who needs... (Score:2)
by _Sharp'r_ (649297) on 03-27-04 08:24 PM (#8693506)
(http://www.booksunderreview.com/ | Last Journal: 08-29-03 06:38 PM)
Industries that turned into re-dos of old ideas with only a small number of new ideas long ago, but don't seem to have hurt very much financially from it:
I'm sure you can think of even more if you take a few minutes. I think the article is a little premature to say the gaming industry will shrink if we don't see more creativity. They don't seem to have any evidence of that beyond one developer's opinion. If you look at the hard numbers, I'd suspect that the overall industry continues to grow as more PCs and game consoles are sold to new households around the world.
Cool stuff for your house [housewarereviews.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Context: Industry Faces 'Crisis of Creativity' (Score:2)
by securitas (411694) on 03-27-04 08:25 PM (#8693518)
(http://geartest.com/ | Last Journal: 01-22-02 09:59 PM)
Enjoy some context (not intended as a criticism). Part of the reason is demographic trends and part of the reason is financial. The ideas in the article seem to support a shift to creativity as discussed in an article with some game industry experts last year.
Reuters [reuters.com] reports on the crisis of creativity in games [forbes.com] 'as aging gamers' tastes increasingly shift toward sequels and games based on movies'. The supposed crisis was discussed by industry participants at the Game Developers Conference 2004 [gdconf.com]. 'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games,' warned Pac-Man creator Toru Iwatani. Sony's Ryoichi Hasegawa said, 'Core gamers are advancing in age and they are becoming more conservative'.
As the GDC panel sees it, the other big problem is the cost of producing games which encourages publishers and developers to 'take less risks on new, innovative titles.'
The argument for creative new games and game types echoes an article we ran last year where experts say game industry trends favor a shift to creativity and creative talent [geartest.com]. Iwatani appears to agree, saying he had seen periods that lacked creativity in his 20-year career but 'new and revolutionary new games appear in a two- to three-year cycle.'
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Moving on (Score:1)
by nidarion (654639) on 03-27-04 08:05 PM (#8693363)
(http://www.glasswillow.com/~dusk)
Th e end of the internet and the descent of the gaming industry into an uncreative apocalyspe has been forseen at least 2-3 times every year for the last 20 years. It's time to accept the instability but long living state of both industries and move on with our lives.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Moving on (Score:1)
by McAddress (673660) on 03-27-04 08:12 PM (#8693412)
Considering Mosaic came out only 11 years ago, and arguably that is arguably the the begining of the internet, it is highly unlikely that people have been predicting the end of the internet for the last 20 years.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Moving on (Score:1)
by nidarion (654639) on 03-27-04 08:16 PM (#8693448)
(http://www.glasswillow.com/~dusk)
Th er internet isn't just HTTP, it's FTP, it's USENET and IRC, and it's beginnings in ARPANET were more than 20 years ago, so they've been predicting the death of the internet the first time people started to spam on Usenet groups. :)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Imminent death of net predicted (Score:1)
by 0racle (667029) on 03-27-04 08:24 PM (#8693505)
This [google.com] thread dates from 1989 and contains the phrase "Imminent death of net predicted" at least 6 times, with the first one appearing not long after the creation of Usenet. "Imminent death of net predicted" had a long and possible proud run.
Spelling is for sissies
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Moving on (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:25 PM (#8693514)
Mosaic == WWW && WWW != Internet
McAddress, please delete your slashdot account. You are not wanted.
It's time to leave.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Not Creativity. it's EA (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:05 PM (#8693364)
And also companies like EA (Sierra).
Tribes died, WIng Commanders, UO, etc, etc. It's all charts, numbers, and rehashing as opposed to highly motivated developers and a creative team.
[ Reply to This ]
If it's good, it's good (Score:3, Insightful)
by l810c (551591) * on 03-27-04 08:05 PM (#8693366)
While I agree with most of the article, I don't know about this line:
But it is not just EA chasing after proven material. Upcoming titles such as "Halo 2," "Half-Life 2," "Doom III" and "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" are all expected to top sales charts this year, in large part because the games that preceded them were so successful.
Sure this will get them noticed more, but if the games don't have innovative graphics and gameplay, the popularity of the previous titles is not going to mean shit
[ Reply to This ]
Re:If it's good, it's good (Score:2)
by lukewarmfusion (726141) on 03-27-04 08:14 PM (#8693432)
I disagree with your last statement: "Sure this will get them noticed more, but if the games don't have innovative graphics and gameplay, the popularity of the previous titles is not going to mean shit."
You'll buy it because you'll assume it's going to be at least close to the original game, and the original had great graphics/gameplay, whatever.
As far as general creativity goes, I think there are two major kinds of improvement:
1. The Game itself - is the concept, usability, gameplay, etc. any good? The gameplay of GTA3 was awesome.
2. Presentation - is it visually appealing? Does it have a soundtrack? How realistic is it?
This isn't to say that a game needs to be visually stunning, but presentation is a little more than just icing.
Some of the greatest games did not rely on a new 3D engine, or require expensive CPUs or video cards.
But hell if I didn't enjoy Halo, Half-life, and GTA because of the presentation.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:If it's good, it's good (Score:2)
by l810c (551591) * on 03-27-04 08:23 PM (#8693503)
I was just kinda summing up what makes a good games. We agree on Gameplay, by Graphics I wasn't necessarily implying it has to be a ground breaking like Doom3 should be, but visually appealing :)
Sure there will be lots of people will rush out buy these on the day they are released(or even pro-order them). If they are crap, however, word will spread. That would turn them into Hits instead of MegaHits. And with the develpment cycle and resources that went into each of those games, they Need to be Megahits for them to be profitable.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Hmm, (Score:3, Funny)
by Tibor the Hun (143056) on 03-27-04 08:05 PM (#8693368)
Does that mean that gaming industry for Macs is doubly threatened? (death of Apple first, then death of games)

The movie industry seems to be doing just fine on sequels, I think the game industry will be fine though.

And just for the record, no I didn't read the article.
--
*I'm not trolling! I'm just bad at focusing my sarcasm into a coherent message.*
[ Reply to This ]

so (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:06 PM (#8693369)
new stories, new engine, and usually new developers, whats not creative? the demand?

[ Reply to This ]

Sequels can't sell if they aren't entertaining (Score:1)
by lemist (638625) on 03-27-04 08:06 PM (#8693370)
(http://thegh.org/)
I don't think the sequels will be succussful because of the originals, i think they will be successful because the simple fact that they are entertaining! People may initially buy a game because its a sequel to a game they loved, but if the reaction to the sequel is negative, word spreads and the game doesn't sell. Its very simple economics, the sequels must be as good (and in many cases better than) the original or there's no profit to be had.
--
"Anything that's invented after you're 35 is against the natural order of things" - Douglas Adams
[ Reply to This ]

New, must-have games drive console sales. (Score:2)
by Hawthorne01 (575586) on 03-27-04 08:06 PM (#8693372)
(Last Journal: 02-13-03 11:57 PM)
It's always been that way, it will always be so. Space Invaders and Pac-Man fed Atari Sales, Super Mario Bros. made the Nintendo, and GameBoy had Tetris. And there just hasn't been that for consoles as of late. Halo wasn't the X-Box's killer app, and sequels aren't going to do it for them, either.
--
Good posters copy .sigs. Great ones steal.
[ Reply to This ]

Re:New, must-have games drive console sales. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:14 PM (#8693426)
I don't know about you, but the reason I bought the XBox was for Halo.

Morrowind to a lesser degree, as well.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Successful only because their predecessors were? (Score:4, Insightful)
by SlamMan (221834) on 03-27-04 08:06 PM (#8693373)
Successful only because their predecessors were? Thats certainly a backwards way of looking at it. They're successful because they kept doing (and by expanding upon) what made their predecessors good games.

They may not be original, but that certainly doesn't mean they won't be fun, which is what gaming's supposed to be about. Why reinvent the wheel when you know what people like?
--
A man walks into a bar.
[ Reply to This ]

Re:Successful only because their predecessors were (Score:1)
by SteveXE (641833) on 03-27-04 08:13 PM (#8693417)
Because sooner or later people will get sick of the same old "wheel" and want something new. The wheel was re-invented on psx and saturn, the birth of affordable mainstream 3d capable hardware. Games werent always made of polygons.

Ive been an avid gamer for as long as i can remember, which is why im qualified to comment here. I dont claim to know what the next leap of gaming will be, 1st it was mud, then 2d, then 3d, but i can say the true next generation of gaming wont be around for a long time because all anyone cares about is new faster hardware and pretty graphics. Nobody thinks outside the box anymore, nobody.

Thats not always a bad thing, i mean damn, there are a ton of games coming out this year that i must own, and same went for last year, but all of it is the same, nothing is really new.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Successful only because their predecessors were (Score:1)
by HeLLFiRe1151 (743468) on 03-27-04 08:22 PM (#8693489)
That's a fair point and to prove it, you only have to look as far as what happened to Epic and the Unreal Tournament series. UT was so hugely popular and UT2K3 was such an abysmal failure. Now UT2K4 is a rock solid game and is very popular, the reason is that a independent production crew brought in an entirely new idea for the series, which is the Onslaught mode.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

To Reply: (Score:3, Funny)
by falzer (224563) on 03-27-04 08:06 PM (#8693376)
To reply, you must answer the following question:

What is the 11th word in the seventh paragraph on the first page of this article?

[ Reply to This ]

Re:To Reply: (Score:2)
by Cyn (50070) on 03-27-04 08:11 PM (#8693407)
(http://www.cyn.org/)
'slurpee'.

no wait,

'the'

I wonder if that's statistically likely anyway. Oh well. Slurpees are damned good tho.
--
cyn, free software and unix/unix-like operating systems enthusiast.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

4 kinds (Score:2, Interesting)
by nycsubway (79012) on 03-27-04 08:07 PM (#8693380)
(http://gbookcards.com/)
I think there are really only four kinds of games:

Arcade style - pac-man, pong, donkey kong, any card game

Third person - Games where the character(s) are viewed/controlled from above; Kings Quest, Warcraft, etc

First person shooter - duke nukem, doom, GTA

racing games - need for speed, etc.

Some games span more than one category, like GTA, but most (graphical) games can fit into one of these categories.

--
C/C++ reference card - gbookcards.com [gbookcards.com]
[ Reply to This ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:2)
by st0rmshad0w (412661) on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693399)
You forgot type number 5: Cancelled Games

Most recent example being the Sam & Max sequel, which was killed despite a HUGE cult following that eagerly awaited its release.
--

"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle" - Mal Reynolds

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:1)
by DrMrLordX (559371) on 03-27-04 08:15 PM (#8693438)
This doesn't look like the Lincoln Tunnels, Sam

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:13 PM (#8693422)
Yeah, you're right, the Fifa games are definitely on par with Warcraft. Good thinking.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

What about... (Score:1)
by BlueCodeWarrior (638065) on 03-27-04 08:17 PM (#8693458)
RPG?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:2)
by rokzy (687636) on 03-27-04 08:18 PM (#8693466)
FYI (for the next time you talk about games you haven't played) GTA is 3rd person

me? I think there are 6 types of games: 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person... 3rd person plural... er, accusative... and something else.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:1)
by thoth (7907) on 03-27-04 08:19 PM (#8693474)
Your categories are super broad, which helps. If I read it correctly, games like:

all platformers (Ratchet & Clank, etc.)
all sports games (SSX Tricky, etc.)
all strategy games (Civilization, Dominions 2, etc.)
all flight sims
all real time strategy (Warcraft, Age of Empries, etc.)
all CRPG's (Morrowind, Star Wars KOTOR)
all MMOG's (Everquest, etc.)

all fit into your "third person" category.

These games are even genre spanning like Thief, System Shock, etc.

That's quite a bit of diversity which gets all glommed over in your category system.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:1)
by ashot (599110) on 03-27-04 08:20 PM (#8693479)
(http://www.geocities.com/ashot_petros ian/)
1. yes, you can split up games into category based on whatever you want (number of players, point of view, type) etc.. whats your point?
2. your categories suck; they are inconsitent in type, and thats why 'some games span more than one category'. The best way to split up game is by the type of game play, and this is how its done at major game sites, magazines and the like.
--
-ashot
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:4 kinds (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 03-27-04 08:24 PM (#8693508)
GTA is a first person game?? Maybe in the cars. Did you even PLAY GTA??? The first 2 were overehead games and the 3rd is a 3rd person game. Get a clue man!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

This story was on Slashdot a while ago... (Score:1)
by Gary Yogurt (664063) on 03-27-04 08:08 PM (#8693384)
David Wong predicts! [pointlesswasteoftime.com] Said article. [slashdot.org]
I know one sequel I want to see... (Score:2, Informative)
by Jonin893 (666637) on 03-27-04 08:09 PM (#8693396)
Sorry, Sam & Max's cancellation is still upseting me. http://www.savesamandmax.com Nothing wrong with sequels. GTA3 was vastly better than GTA1 and 2. Just because it's a sequel doesn't mean it isn't going to be creative. Just think about the amount of Final Fantasy games, or a lot of the Nintendo games. Pretty much every incarnarnation of Mario has been very creative and original. I think part of the problem may be piracy and the fact that the top selling games like Half-Life sell an ungodly amount of copies more than other solid selling FPS games like No One Lives Forever. Thus, people copy what sells big, not what works.
Not too sure... (Score:2)
by ccnull (607939) on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693397)
(http://www.chrisnull.com/)
Analysts have been saying the same thing about Hollywood for 20 years, but every year the box office is consistently bigger than the last (and rising faster than inflation) -- and much of that is powered by sequels. In 2003, 6 of the top 10 grossing movies were sequels. And when Hollywood is short on sequels, they recycle old ideas -- Spider-Man was the #1 film of 2002, and it's free to spawn more sequels anew.
Bottom line: Creativity has been floundering for a long time, but people keep buying games, keep watching TV, keep going to the movies. Businesspeople would be fools to abandon a known quantity (the revenues of any sequel are easily predictable) in favor of new stories and fresh faces, not matter how much some of us would love to see them. To think that people will suddenly stop buying games because they're all sequels is silly; gamers really have no choice except not to play... and only in WarGames/I. is that a real option.
filmcritic.com - Movie reviews on Internet time [filmcritic.com]
by DrMrLordX (559371) on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693398)
The same criticism has been made against movies made over the last 10-20 years, and yet, we find in modern theatres such wonderful, innovative, and novel pictures as . . . uh . .. hmm, well, I'll get back to you on that one. Also, be glad the video games are still in the "sequel from hell" phase and not yet fully into the remake from hell [inxile-entertainment.com] phase.
Learning Curve (Score:2)
by superpulpsicle (533373) on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693400)
Sure you can introduce a brand new type of genre with unbelievable creativity. But people fear wasting $50 on something they end up no enjoying or understand.
In the end, everyone buys and support the same games. It may sound stereotypical, but only hardcore gamers are experimental consumers. Until their word of mouth get on the street, these "newly creative" games go no where in the market.
Doom 3 (Score:1)
by CyberVenom (697959) on 03-27-04 08:10 PM (#8693402)
I hope Doom 3 will be able to stand out on its own, even without the support of its line of predecessors, but even if it turns out to be "just another sequel" as far as plot and gameplay, lets not forget its merit as a techdemo. Many of the games on the market today are based on id's engines, and even if Doom 3 itself is not the great game we are hoping for, the technology behind it will undoubtedly power at least a few great games to come. Aside from that point though, I would have to agree: the game market is becoming saturated with copycat and sequel titles. What the game market needs is not more games, but more focus on creating innovative new gameplay. Case in point: I still waste a few hours every few months playing the original Pitfall just for the fun of it. Now who can say that for most of these modern FPS, RTS, or MMORPG formula games?
(1) | 2 (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
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Re:Creativity? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693562)

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Hi, Friend (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693345)

The following is being offered free of charge to all those who feel the need to troll the Slashdot Games section. Please print out a copy and keep it with you at all times. If you follow these simple steps, you trolling is guaranteed to improve.

1. If a game is currently on PS2 and there are plans to bring it out on the Xbox, make sure to claim that no one will want to play that game by the time it gets to the Xbox. For example, by the time Virtua Fighter 4/GTA3 comes to the Xbox, we'll all be playing something new.
2. Use the reverse logic if it is a game only on the Xbox that may be ported to other systems/PC later. Case in point, Halo. Say something to the effect of "I'll wait for the true version of Halo on the PC". "It will be much better than the Xbox version".
3. Constantly complain about FPS on consoles ACCEPT for Goldeneye.
4. Always use Bill Gates name. Act as if he is the one making the games.
By all means, if you run out of clever or interesting things to troll about, just bring up Mr Gates. Lots of people hate him and will be glad to agree with you.
5. Complain about the XBox controller. Even if you have never seen or used it, it won't matter. People will believe you when you say it's big. Be sure and try to provide a testimonial about your wife or girlfriend or kid who complains about the size of it. Also claiming to be injured by the controller can be the foundation of a great troll post.
6. When referring to the Xbox, try to scew the name a bit. Xblox, eggs bocks, the stupider the name, the more favorable of a response you will get.
7. Be sure and mention Japanese and European sales numbers. If you aren't sure what those sales numbers are, go ahead and make something up. Estimate low, most people will believe you.
8. Although Xbox owners seem to enjoy there games, make sure to comment on Xbox not having any games with good gameplay. Although the Xbox does share some ports with PS2 and Gamecube, it's okay to assume that the Xbox version of those ports has poor gameplay as well.
9. Since the Xbox has nice graphics, be sure and find a way to put a negative spin on this. Using the age old formula that states if a game has nice graphics, it must have terrible gameplay, you can convince people that Xbox games are all tech demos.
10. Defective Xbox stories are excellent to use in trolling. The best part is that they require no proof. I find that "the screen just froze up" works great. Occasionally you can use something really bizarre like "My friend bought an Xbox and it caught on fire and burned down there house. Now they are homeless. F*** Bill Gates."
11. When all else fails, lie. There are lots of people who will agree with you just because they hate MS.

Re:Hi, Friend (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693361)

I bought an Xblox the other day, and I wish I hadn't. I guess the poor sales number should have warned me (since they only sold 3000 EggsBlockses in Europe, and 12 in Japan). I don't know what Bill Gates was thinking when he designed the controller, but it really hurts my hands. It's way too big!

I was playing a game with it once, and it started vibrating, jumped right out of my hands, and severely wounded a small child. Also, it's strained my fingers so much, I'm starting to have problems 'viewing' my Natalie Portman image collection! I'm going to sue Bill Gates!

Sure, some of the games may have nice graphics, but the gameplay is absolutely shocking. I tried to play Halo, but it's nothing but a tech demo! You may not believe this, but it's actually impossible to shoot! I played for five minutes, and couldn't kill anything at all, so I took the game back to the shop. It has nothing on Goldeneye. I'm going to wait for the PC version, which should be much better.

Also, my son really wanted me to buy a console, so that he could play GTA3, so imagine my surprise when I found out it was not yet released on the Xbox! He had to undergo therapy for several weeks - but I'll get the money back from Bill Gates when I sue him.

I'm going to sell my XSocks on Ebay now. It'll probably cost me a lot in shipping, because it's really heavy. Bill Gates designed it that way, because he likes to hit immigrants over the head with his. I'll never buy another M$ product!

Re:Hi, Friend (-1)

lemon parties (761941) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693482)

I guess the poor sales number should have warned me (since they only sold 3000 EggsBlockses in Europe, and 12 in Japan)

It's funny, because ZDnet reported last week [zdnet.com] that over 800,000 units have been sold in Japan, and 2 million units in England alone.
I was playing a game with it once, and it started vibrating, jumped right out of my hands, and severely wounded a small child.
A close friend of mine oversaw the development for the controllers, and he said their #1 priority was egronomic safety. Considering the 3 mW pulse XBox(C) controllers send out, it is wholly impossible for controllers to just "jump" out of a user's hand.

I highly suggest you check your facts before blurting out such shit.

Garage Games (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693350)

The big companies aren't willing to take any risks. That's why there is GarageGames [garagegames.com] .

Re:Garage Games (4, Funny)

Smitedogg (527493) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693389)

And exactly how is selling 3d Mahjong and 'Marble Blast Gold!' risky? Dogg

Re:Garage Games (4, Insightful)

Zardus (464755) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693554)

Its more stuff like ThinkTanks [garagegames.com] , that feature kinda psuedo-unique gameplay that's a bit hard to master but very fun. Reminds me of the good old days of shareware games on DOS.

Who needs... (5, Insightful)

jwthompson2 (749521) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693351)

originality and creativity when repackaging the same game and slapping a subtitle on it will rake in millions? The Sims comes to my mind...GTA is in a similar boat in my mind...

Re:Who needs... (5, Insightful)

SoLO (91992) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693499)

I guess shift from GTA1&2 to GTA3 wasn't very "creative".

Re:Who needs... (4, Insightful)

_Sharp'r_ (649297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693506)


Industries that turned into re-dos of old ideas with only a small number of new ideas long ago, but don't seem to have hurt very much financially from it:

Books
Movies
Music
Magazines

I'm sure you can think of even more if you take a few minutes. I think the article is a little premature to say the gaming industry will shrink if we don't see more creativity. They don't seem to have any evidence of that beyond one developer's opinion. If you look at the hard numbers, I'd suspect that the overall industry continues to grow as more PCs and game consoles are sold to new households around the world.

Context: Industry Faces 'Crisis of Creativity' (4, Interesting)

securitas (411694) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693518)


Enjoy some context (not intended as a criticism). Part of the reason is demographic trends and part of the reason is financial. The ideas in the article seem to support a shift to creativity as discussed in an article with some game industry experts last year.

Reuters [reuters.com] reports on the crisis of creativity in games [forbes.com] 'as aging gamers' tastes increasingly shift toward sequels and games based on movies'. The supposed crisis was discussed by industry participants at the Game Developers Conference 2004 [gdconf.com] . 'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games,' warned Pac-Man creator Toru Iwatani. Sony's Ryoichi Hasegawa said, 'Core gamers are advancing in age and they are becoming more conservative'.

As the GDC panel sees it, the other big problem is the cost of producing games which encourages publishers and developers to 'take less risks on new, innovative titles.'

The argument for creative new games and game types echoes an article we ran last year where experts say game industry trends favor a shift to creativity and creative talent [geartest.com] . Iwatani appears to agree, saying he had seen periods that lacked creativity in his 20-year career but 'new and revolutionary new games appear in a two- to three-year cycle.'

Moving on (3, Insightful)

nidarion (654639) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693363)

The end of the internet and the descent of the gaming industry into an uncreative apocalyspe has been forseen at least 2-3 times every year for the last 20 years. It's time to accept the instability but long living state of both industries and move on with our lives.

Re:Moving on (1)

McAddress (673660) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693412)

Considering Mosaic came out only 11 years ago, and arguably that is arguably the the begining of the internet, it is highly unlikely that people have been predicting the end of the internet for the last 20 years.

Re:Moving on (1)

nidarion (654639) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693448)

Ther internet isn't just HTTP, it's FTP, it's USENET and IRC, and it's beginnings in ARPANET were more than 20 years ago, so they've been predicting the death of the internet the first time people started to spam on Usenet groups. :)

Imminent death of net predicted (5, Informative)

0racle (667029) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693505)

This [google.com] thread dates from 1989 and contains the phrase "Imminent death of net predicted" at least 6 times, with the first one appearing not long after the creation of Usenet. "Imminent death of net predicted" had a long and possible proud run.

Re:Moving on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693514)

Mosaic == WWW && WWW != Internet
McAddress, please delete your slashdot account. You are not wanted.

It's time to leave.

Not Creativity. it's EA (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693364)

And also companies like EA (Sierra).

Tribes died, WIng Commanders, UO, etc, etc. It's all charts, numbers, and rehashing as opposed to highly motivated developers and a creative team.

If it's good, it's good (5, Insightful)

l810c (551591) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693366)

While I agree with most of the article, I don't know about this line:

But it is not just EA chasing after proven material. Upcoming titles such as "Halo 2," "Half-Life 2," "Doom III" and "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" are all expected to top sales charts this year, in large part because the games that preceded them were so successful.

Sure this will get them noticed more, but if the games don't have innovative graphics and gameplay, the popularity of the previous titles is not going to mean shit.

Re:If it's good, it's good (1)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693432)

I disagree with your last statement: "Sure this will get them noticed more, but if the games don't have innovative graphics and gameplay, the popularity of the previous titles is not going to mean shit."

You'll buy it because you'll assume it's going to be at least close to the original game, and the original had great graphics/gameplay, whatever.

As far as general creativity goes, I think there are two major kinds of improvement:

1. The Game itself - is the concept, usability, gameplay, etc. any good? The gameplay of GTA3 was awesome.

2. Presentation - is it visually appealing? Does it have a soundtrack? How realistic is it?

This isn't to say that a game needs to be visually stunning, but presentation is a little more than just icing.

Some of the greatest games did not rely on a new 3D engine, or require expensive CPUs or video cards.

But hell if I didn't enjoy Halo, Half-life, and GTA because of the presentation.

Re:If it's good, it's good (1)

l810c (551591) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693503)

I was just kinda summing up what makes a good games. We agree on Gameplay, by Graphics I wasn't necessarily implying it has to be a ground breaking like Doom3 should be, but visually appealing :)

Sure there will be lots of people will rush out buy these on the day they are released(or even pro-order them). If they are crap, however, word will spread. That would turn them into Hits instead of MegaHits. And with the develpment cycle and resources that went into each of those games, they Need to be Megahits for them to be profitable.

Hmm, (5, Funny)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693368)

Does that mean that gaming industry for Macs is doubly threatened? (death of Apple first, then death of games)

The movie industry seems to be doing just fine on sequels, I think the game industry will be fine though.

And just for the record, no I didn't read the article.

so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693369)

new stories, new engine, and usually new developers, whats not creative? the demand?

Sequels can't sell if they aren't entertaining (3, Insightful)

lemist (638625) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693370)

I don't think the sequels will be succussful because of the originals, i think they will be successful because the simple fact that they are entertaining! People may initially buy a game because its a sequel to a game they loved, but if the reaction to the sequel is negative, word spreads and the game doesn't sell. Its very simple economics, the sequels must be as good (and in many cases better than) the original or there's no profit to be had.

New, must-have games drive console sales. (0)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693372)

It's always been that way, it will always be so. Space Invaders and Pac-Man fed Atari Sales, Super Mario Bros. made the Nintendo, and GameBoy had Tetris. And there just hasn't been that for consoles as of late. Halo wasn't the X-Box's killer app, and sequels aren't going to do it for them, either.

Re:New, must-have games drive console sales. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693426)

I don't know about you, but the reason I bought the XBox was for Halo.

Morrowind to a lesser degree, as well.

The maturation of videogames.... (1)

SpekkioMofW (711835) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693548)

That's why Iwatani-san is right when he says that innovation will return to the industry in a "couple years." In a couple years is when the new batch of consoles is due. Then companies have to innovate to get consumers to switch up.

It was not all that long ago that almost every new videogame offered something that nobody had ever seen before. However, those days are gone. Critics need to accept that videogaming has matured significantly as a medium. Few people want to admit that...there are still those out there waiting for the other shoe to drop (the first shoe fell in 1983 when Atari's empire crumbled) and this "fad" to finally end.

Successful only because their predecessors were? (4, Insightful)

SlamMan (221834) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693373)

Successful only because their predecessors were? Thats certainly a backwards way of looking at it. They're successful because they kept doing (and by expanding upon) what made their predecessors good games.

They may not be original, but that certainly doesn't mean they won't be fun, which is what gaming's supposed to be about. Why reinvent the wheel when you know what people like?

Re:Successful only because their predecessors were (1)

SteveXE (641833) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693417)

Because sooner or later people will get sick of the same old "wheel" and want something new. The wheel was re-invented on psx and saturn, the birth of affordable mainstream 3d capable hardware. Games werent always made of polygons.

Ive been an avid gamer for as long as i can remember, which is why im qualified to comment here. I dont claim to know what the next leap of gaming will be, 1st it was mud, then 2d, then 3d, but i can say the true next generation of gaming wont be around for a long time because all anyone cares about is new faster hardware and pretty graphics. Nobody thinks outside the box anymore, nobody.

Thats not always a bad thing, i mean damn, there are a ton of games coming out this year that i must own, and same went for last year, but all of it is the same, nothing is really new.

Re:Successful only because their predecessors were (1)

HeLLFiRe1151 (743468) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693489)

That's a fair point and to prove it, you only have to look as far as what happened to Epic and the Unreal Tournament series. UT was so hugely popular and UT2K3 was such an abysmal failure. Now UT2K4 is a rock solid game and is very popular, the reason is that a independent production crew brought in an entirely new idea for the series, which is the Onslaught mode.

To Reply: (5, Funny)

falzer (224563) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693376)

To reply, you must answer the following question:

What is the 11th word in the seventh paragraph on the first page of this article?

Re:To Reply: (1)

Cyn (50070) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693407)

'slurpee'.

no wait,

'the'

I wonder if that's statistically likely anyway. Oh well. Slurpees are damned good tho.

4 kinds (1, Interesting)

nycsubway (79012) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693380)

I think there are really only four kinds of games:

Arcade style - pac-man, pong, donkey kong, any card game

Third person - Games where the character(s) are viewed/controlled from above; Kings Quest, Warcraft, etc

First person shooter - duke nukem, doom, GTA

racing games - need for speed, etc.

Some games span more than one category, like GTA, but most (graphical) games can fit into one of these categories.

Re:4 kinds (1)

st0rmshad0w (412661) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693399)

You forgot type number 5: Cancelled Games

Most recent example being the Sam & Max sequel, which was killed despite a HUGE cult following that eagerly awaited its release.

Re:4 kinds (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693438)

This doesn't look like the Lincoln Tunnels, Sam

Re:4 kinds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693422)

Yeah, you're right, the Fifa games are definitely on par with Warcraft. Good thinking.

What about... (1)

BlueCodeWarrior (638065) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693458)

RPG?

Re:4 kinds (1)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693466)

FYI (for the next time you talk about games you haven't played) GTA is 3rd person

me? I think there are 6 types of games: 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person... 3rd person plural... er, accusative... and something else.

Re:4 kinds (2, Insightful)

thoth (7907) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693474)

Your categories are super broad, which helps. If I read it correctly, games like:

all platformers (Ratchet & Clank, etc.)
all sports games (SSX Tricky, etc.)
all strategy games (Civilization, Dominions 2, etc.)
all flight sims
all real time strategy (Warcraft, Age of Empries, etc.)
all CRPG's (Morrowind, Star Wars KOTOR)
all MMOG's (Everquest, etc.)

all fit into your "third person" category.

These games are even genre spanning like Thief, System Shock, etc.

That's quite a bit of diversity which gets all glommed over in your category system.

Re:4 kinds (1)

ashot (599110) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693479)

1. yes, you can split up games into category based on whatever you want (number of players, point of view, type) etc.. whats your point?
2. your categories suck; they are inconsitent in type, and thats why 'some games span more than one category'. The best way to split up game is by the type of game play, and this is how its done at major game sites, magazines and the like.

Re:4 kinds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693508)

GTA is a first person game?? Maybe in the cars. Did you even PLAY GTA??? The first 2 were overehead games and the 3rd is a 3rd person game. Get a clue man!

Re:4 kinds (2, Funny)

NortWind (575520) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693567)

Third person - Games where the character(s) are viewed/controlled from above; Kings Quest, Warcraft, etc
Congratulations! You've put "Grim Fandango", "Diablo II", and "Star Craft" into the same gaming category. They said it couldn't be done.

This story was on Slashdot a while ago... (2, Interesting)

Gary Yogurt (664063) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693384)

David Wong predicts! [pointlesswasteoftime.com] Said article. [slashdot.org]

I know one sequel I want to see... (3, Informative)

Jonin893 (666637) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693396)

Sorry, Sam & Max's cancellation is still upseting me. http://www.savesamandmax.com Nothing wrong with sequels. GTA3 was vastly better than GTA1 and 2. Just because it's a sequel doesn't mean it isn't going to be creative. Just think about the amount of Final Fantasy games, or a lot of the Nintendo games. Pretty much every incarnarnation of Mario has been very creative and original. I think part of the problem may be piracy and the fact that the top selling games like Half-Life sell an ungodly amount of copies more than other solid selling FPS games like No One Lives Forever. Thus, people copy what sells big, not what works.

Not too sure... (4, Insightful)

ccnull (607939) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693397)

Analysts have been saying the same thing about Hollywood for 20 years, but every year the box office is consistently bigger than the last (and rising faster than inflation) -- and much of that is powered by sequels. In 2003, 6 of the top 10 grossing movies were sequels. And when Hollywood is short on sequels, they recycle old ideas -- Spider-Man was the #1 film of 2002, and it's free to spawn more sequels anew.

Bottom line: Creativity has been floundering for a long time, but people keep buying games, keep watching TV, keep going to the movies. Businesspeople would be fools to abandon a known quantity (the revenues of any sequel are easily predictable) in favor of new stories and fresh faces, not matter how much some of us would love to see them. To think that people will suddenly stop buying games because they're all sequels is silly; gamers really have no choice except not to play... and only in WarGames/I. is that a real option.

Bah (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693398)

The same criticism has been made against movies made over the last 10-20 years, and yet, we find in modern theatres such wonderful, innovative, and novel pictures as . . . uh . .. hmm, well, I'll get back to you on that one. Also, be glad the video games are still in the "sequel from hell" phase and not yet fully into the remake from hell [inxile-entertainment.com] phase.

Learning Curve (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693400)

Sure you can introduce a brand new type of genre with unbelievable creativity. But people fear wasting $50 on something they end up no enjoying or understand.

In the end, everyone buys and support the same games. It may sound stereotypical, but only hardcore gamers are experimental consumers. Until their word of mouth get on the street, these "newly creative" games go no where in the market.

Doom 3 (2, Insightful)

CyberVenom (697959) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693402)

I hope Doom 3 will be able to stand out on its own, even without the support of its line of predecessors, but even if it turns out to be "just another sequel" as far as plot and gameplay, lets not forget its merit as a techdemo. Many of the games on the market today are based on id's engines, and even if Doom 3 itself is not the great game we are hoping for, the technology behind it will undoubtedly power at least a few great games to come. Aside from that point though, I would have to agree: the game market is becoming saturated with copycat and sequel titles. What the game market needs is not more games, but more focus on creating innovative new gameplay. Case in point: I still waste a few hours every few months playing the original Pitfall just for the fun of it. Now who can say that for most of these modern FPS, RTS, or MMORPG formula games?

Doom 3 is a sequel? (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693595)

I hope Doom 3 will be able to stand out on its own, even without the support of its line of predecessors, but even if it turns out to be "just another sequel" as far as plot and gameplay, lets not forget its merit as a techdemo.

This effect is getting so bad that we're not only seeing sequels, we're seeing *remakes*! Doom 3 is just a graphical upgrade of the original. You're right, Doom3 is *definitely* a graphics engine show-off.

Panzer Dragoon Saga!! (0)

Sharadin (241129) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693406)

We need to see a sequel to this! This is, by far, the greatest and most unique RPG ever created. It's such a pity less than 8,000 copies were made - everyone should have experienced this treasure.

Worked for Hollywood (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693409)

The same 30 or so basic plots have been recycled in Hollywood for past 100 years. I'm sure the video game industry will survive just the same.

logical mistake? (2, Interesting)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693410)

>upcoming sequels (Doom 3, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: San Andreas) will be successful only because their predecessors were

the fact that the originals were successful suggests the designers did something right. so what does it mean that they will *ONLY* be successful because their predecessors were?

in other news: "$team won the $league, but only because they beat all their opponents"

the only thing they might mean is that the games suck but they will still succeed on hype, but how the f*ck can they say that when they aren't even anywhere near release date yet?

Maybe.. (5, Interesting)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693415)

I think Doom 3 would be successful regardless of the name. For one thing, it's the next game engine by id Software. Everyone buys their games, if for no other reason than to see what the graphics are like. Each engine revision introduces a lot of innovation and creativity in terms of technical and graphical features. In addition, they have some absolutely amazing artists and animators working at id Software right now and it's already clear that the art and animation in Doom 3 will be the finest that has ever appeared in a game yet. The obvious areas of criticism will likely be the game length (it's already known that Doom 3 will be a fairly short game) and that it is deeply stuck in the traditional FPS style that was created by id Software. Their "start here, go here, and kill everything in the middle" gameplay is getting a little old to me, personally.

I think Half-Life 2 will be successful not purely on its name. Half-Life had no name to begin with, and the company that made it had no prior history. That was their first game, and it became one of the most successful games in history. They've had time to learn from their mistakes and do cool new things in this game.

Halo 2 I know nothing about. I have no interest in it since it will probably be an Xbox-only title, so perhaps someone here who finds Xbox interesting can give us some insight on the potential technical innovations for that game.

GTA: San Andreas. How can you make a statement one way or the other on this one at this point in time? They have yet to release any actual information on the game yet. We haven't seen any screenshots or feature lists or anything. If they're knocking the possibility of innovation based purely upon its name, then let's take a trip down memory lane and remember the differences between GTA and GTA2.. then GTA2 and GTA3 (clearly the biggest difference), then GTA3 to Vice City (not really a huge difference technically, but I think the gameplay was much improved and it was even more fun than GTA3 for most people). Anyway, the point is that without any information about what GTA:SA will be like, you have no room to knock it at all. They may have expanded this game to be a fucking huge region instead of a single city.

Re:Maybe.. (1)

Hellbuny (444564) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693608)

Anyway, the point is that without any information about what GTA:SA will be like, you have no room to knock it at all. They may have expanded this game to be a fucking huge region instead of a single city.

While I look foward to GTA:SA, just imagine the next game... *looks foward to GTA:USA*

Halo 2 (1)

bbk (33798) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693618)

Halo recieved a lot of support by Bungie fans. Bungie, before being purchased by Microsoft, was one of the premier Mac gaming companies, especially with their FPS series, Marathon, which took storytelling to heigths not equalled in FPS's until the System Shock games. They also released the Myth series of games, which made it to PC. Halo was a few years in the making when Bungie was picked up by Microsoft, and Bungie is quite a bit like Blizzard in terms of philosophy - they don't release less than stellar games.

When Halo came out, there was no other FPS that compared to it on any system, at least graphically. On the Xbox, it was a Mario 64 level triumph (ie, nothing came close to it in terms of game quality for at least 2 years after it was released). It also introduced a Co-op style of play that wasn uncommon in FPS games before, but was so well executed, many FPS games now include that mode. Co-op play has to be played to understand how good it is.

Halo 2 promises to be more of the same, better graphics, better environments, better AI on both enemies and allied players. I'm looking forward to it, as is almost every other Xbox owning person I know.

Bungie.org is a good fansite if you're interested in learning more about Bungie.

Doom 3 (4, Insightful)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693416)

I think that Doom 3 doesn't really fall into the catagory of the other games.

1) Doom 3 is retro. The last Doom game came out while I was still in high school.
2) Doom 3 is a significant advance over the last sequel. It's not just new levels.

Saying Doom 3 is just a sequel is like saying Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time was just a sequel. There's no comparison.

Still, I think that companies will start coming out with more creative games soon. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised of LARPing became the next big thing, and games that are offshoots of RPGs became bigger, such as the White-Wolf titles, only with more roleplay.

Re:Doom 3 (0)

WasterDave (20047) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693581)

Prince of Perisa *is* a sequel, it's just a sequel to the Tomb Raider games on the PS1.

Dav

The public has already found what it wants. (4, Interesting)

Faust7 (314817) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693420)

"The ratio of original titles to sequels is dropping dramatically," said Ryoichi Hasegawa,

"We have to think very carefully about the type of audience we're reaching with our games," Andrew House,

These two quotes sum it up perfectly.

It's not that new, original, refreshing mechanics of gameplay aren't -- it's that they're not what's marketable. By far, the largest chunk of the gaming public is that which loves sports games, racing games, FPS's, and traditional RPGs.

Games like those can only deviate from their core gameplay so much before they stop appealing to that chunk. Furthermore, it's not just about mechanics, but style. Except for RPGs, nitty-gritty "realism" is what dominates; just look at Need for Speed, Project Gotham, Unreal Tournament, Halo, Madden. That style dominates and will continue to dominate until a large-scale shift in gaming culture happens, something on the scale of the transition from 2D SNES cuteness to grim-and-cool 3D PlayStation.

What of titles like Pikmin, Fusion Frenzy, Cubivore, or that one game where you go down tunnels and match up music with what's written on the walls? Marginalized, utterly marginalized. They are all fantastic games -- and had they come out during the golden age, the '70s and '80s, when game mechanics were just beginning to be explored and there were very few established norms, they might have become classics.

i blame EA... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693421)

and many other large western publishers. they centralize development, buy up little studios, and limit their creativity. the independant studio's demise is part of the problem. the other part i feel is the decline of japanese developed game sales here. look at many of the top selling games today. compare that with years past. NOT TO SAY that western developers arn't good at making games, but the japanese show a mastery of game design that is seldom matched in the west. look at the top selling games in japan and you see that the tastes of eastern and western players are going in oppisite directions, and that limits the industry.

Re:i blame EA... (2, Interesting)

Mike Hawk (687615) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693565)

Yeah, cause Japan isn't guilty of churning out sequels...

Mario
Zelda
Metroid
Sonic
Street Fighter
King Of Fighters
Pokemon (hell this year they are just re-releasing Red/Blue!)
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear

I could go on, but the point stands. And I'm tired of typing for today. Silly AC.

It's Like ClearChannel... (4, Insightful)

schnarff (557058) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693430)

You know, video games are going the same way as radio -- more and more of the same crap, over and over and over again. No one wants to give anything new a chance, even though there's plenty of new stuff out there. The only difference is, I don't know that there's been much of a change in the corporate ownership structure in the video game industry like there has been in radio (i.e. the ClearChannel takeover). But then again, I suppose there wasn't much in the way of diversity in video game companies to start with, was there?

The saddest thing about it is, if there were ever a new game that did what, say, Legend of Zelda did back in the 80's, the company that put it out could make zillions. It's not like they'd lose much putting out crappy stuff meanwhile, either. ::Sigh::...if only companies weren't so damn risk-averse, maybe society could progress a bit.

The unique ones often go unnoticed... (4, Interesting)

Magus311X (5823) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693431)

Recently I just picked up Disgaea for PS2. I read a few reviews on it, and PA seemed enthralled by it, but I couldn't justify the full $50 GameStop insisted I pay. I mulled it for months, and finally decided why not and included it in a stack of games I bought.

I seriously regret having put it off for months.

The story, though fairly basic, is sometimes downright hilarious. There were three times where I seriously had to contain myself, and throughout the rest of the plot there are many of chuckles. A lot of things are simply said in the dialogue that really came out of left field. And it all comes through with great anime style, and quality voice acting. This is akin to the "Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail" of tactical RPGs.

There's a lot of hidden things to explore. The demon senate concept is amusing to say the least, though I haven't managed to persuade any senators by force yet. The item world is ridiculous, and turns the game into a FF Tactics meets Dungeon Crawl concept since its always different, and I end up with all sorts of crazy items if I survive.

And the core game itself? Pretty good. I'm 9 chapters in after about 30 hours, and have a feeling it'll be 60 hours before I just beat the core game -- but they're going by as fast as they did for the original FF Tactics. Nevermind the fact the game supposedly has a ton of different endings, and that I could spend forever leveling up to level 9999, getting all sorts of insane items and ridiculous looking attacks, etc.

Yet, good luck finding it. 14 stores and one had two in stock. I'm sure this was a low-volume venture by Atlus here in the states. I've thoroughly enjoyed it, but most folks haven't even heard of it. Which is a shame.

----- ----- -----

Perhaps people would buy original games ... (2, Interesting)

tenzig_112 (213387) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693433)

If they didn't have to risk $50 a pop on a new and innovative title they might not like. This is why genres are so important [and frustrating] in the publishing industry. Both the consumer and publisher want a known commodity. Grand Theft Tony Hawk Pro Simmer 12 will always get the greenlight quicker than something people haven't tried before.

I think that's why web-delivered games [ridiculopathy.com] are getting to be a lot like the independent film scene. They cost much less to produce and distribute than console or PC-specific games so developers and designers can experiment more. Also, consumers expect more risks.

For example, in the console market people will buy up racing & football sequels where the only changes are new stats and color schemes. On the other hand, sites that offer only "look I made a clone of that other game but in FLASH" fare tend not to do well.

Re:Perhaps people would buy original games ... (-1, Flamebait)

Acidic_Diarrhea (641390) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693559)

"For example, in the console market people will buy up racing & football sequels where the only changes are new stats and color schemes."
You pretty much invalidated your entire point with that statement. You show your bias and the fact that you look down on people who buy racing and/or football games. Let's guess that you like RPGs on the your console of choice. I could argue that between titles, there's little actual difference. Graphic improvements but the basic gameplay, selecting a spell to cast and then casting it, remain the same. You see, that would be the naive argument and would be very similar to the statement you made.

"On the other hand, sites that offer only "look I made a clone of that other game but in FLASH" fare tend not to do well."
Any statistics to back that up? Funny, Pop Cap games seems to have a slew of games that are pretty obviously based on games that have been around a long, long time and they are probably one of the most popular web-based game sites. And as much as you can't realize this, Madden 2004 is not the same game as Madden 2003 with updated rosters. Many people on Slashdot make this mistake. Oh, and that flash game you linked to sucks.

I for one like sequels. (4, Interesting)

DeadBugs (546475) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693437)

A game does not have to be "new and different" to be good. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think that certain sequels like Grand Tursimo 3, Soul Calibur II, GTA3 etc. are better than many of the so called creative games.

Not to mention that many sequels are very new and diffrent and have very little in common with the previous titles other than the name.

Games are currently outdoing the movie industry in sales....so games are dead, long live games.

Uh...again? (2, Insightful)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693442)

I don't think the lack of creativity is a problem. I mean, sure, we've seen a lot of sequels lately, but also some really creative games. Paging through the reviews in my most recent EGM reveals Ninja Gaiden, Eye Toy: Groove, Breakdown, and a hole ton of other creative games. About half of the games were sequels, which is a bit much, but nothing to freak out about. Also, recently, we've seen a TON of really innovative games, and we're beginning to see sequels to them. Splinter Cell comes to mind, along with Wario Ware. GTA3 was exceptionally inovative, too. Thing is, with a lot of innovative games, nobody buys them. I love Animal Crossing, and its in a genre by itself, but it didn't sell too well, and Nintendo certainly promoted it a lot. That's not much motivation for companies to make innovative, fresh games, now is it?

Rubbish (2, Interesting)

Aelfy (727873) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693444)

There is a *ton* of interesting, original and cheap independent games out there. The small indy developers are the only ones that can afford to take risks on originality in games.

So before you complain about the lack of originality in games, open your sodding eyes for once and look past the big publishers.

Tragically limited tastes and lack of risk-taking (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693454)

As we speak I'm playing "Sakura Taisen Monogatari: Mysterious Paris," which is an adventure game based off the long-popular "Sakura Taisen" series (known in the states as "Sakura Wars").

The series only ever made it outside of Japan in its animated forms, but has had 5 games in its core continuity, 2 ports, 1 rewrite, and many spin-off games/non-game discs.

Personally it's been one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had (playing through Sakura Wars 1-3, 4 was iffy.) The only problem is the core of the game isn't action. It's a combination of "relationship sim" where you take the main character Ohgami Ichirou and make decisions for him that lead him to gain/lose favor with the girls on his team. And to punctuate the episodes (since it plays like a 13-14 OAV Anime) there are turn based strategy segments. A simple game really but the story and characters are terribly fun.

Rumors were made in 2002 and 2003 of a US release of "Atsuki Chishio ni" the PS2 rewrite of the first game (total rewrite using the new LIPS decision-making system and the ARMS combat system.) This has, however, proven mostly fruitless as far fewer people would likely take to the relationship-sim part of the game. But we won't know for sure. They won't take the risk of doing a release.

So games suffer from, IMO, two problems:

1.) Gamers in America (and possibly Europe) have tragically limited tastes in the kinds of games they would like to play.

2.) The companies are too afraid of losing a chunk of change on a release that could quite easily bomb.

Sakura Wars games? Might as well shell out $50... (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693528)

...for a copy of "Never Been Laid: 2003 (game of the year edition)"

1.) Gamers in America (and possibly Europe) have tragically limited tastes in the kinds of games they would like to play.

Gamers in America (and possibly Europe) already live with the stereotype of being fat, unwashed, socially inept perpetual virgins who only interact with other people over the internet. Playing "relationship sim" games is NOT going to improve that.

Re:Sakura Wars games? Might as well shell out $50. (2, Interesting)

Microlith (54737) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693592)

And you, sir, can shell out $50 for a copy of "Stick up your Ass (Platinum Edition)."

What you talk about is people, probably like yourself, who cast their opinions on people (vocally) based on what they play. Sadly, you and people like you are full of shit.

Tokimeki Memorial and Sentimental Grafitti are more like your "Never Been Laid: 2003" than Sakura Wars is. Never played those but then I don't care to.

Sakura wars plays out more like an anime than a relationship sim. Unforunately people like you short circuit the thinking process and judge the game without experience (I think they call that predjudice, you might be familiar with the concept.)

This is another reason creativity and diversity in games is stunted in the US and Europe. People simply refuse to consider things outside your average blood and guts action games, RPGs, Sports, Racing, and Puzzle games.

Re:Sakura Wars games? Might as well shell out $50. (0, Troll)

Operating Thetan (754308) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693607)

Sakura wars plays out more like an anime

Anime, too, is another indicator of lifelong virginity. Are you a furry as well?

Re:Tragically limited tastes and lack of risk-taki (1)

Operating Thetan (754308) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693541)

Gamers in America (and possibly Europe) have tragically limited tastes in the kinds of games they would like to play.

And the Japanese don't? Considering the most popular games are the RPGS, 90% of which have exactly the same mechanics as Dragon Warrior did 20 years ago, I don't think it's just those stupid gaijin you despise who have limited taste. Ever seen the figures for sales of Western games in Japan?

Re:Tragically limited tastes and lack of risk-taki (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693620)

The Japanese have a far higher density of people to which they can sell stuff.

This allows for riskier ventures to pay off more often. As a result they often get cool hardware before the rest of the world (if the rest of the world gets it at all) and more diverse game types can show up.

Sure, the more common designs are more popular, but there's no lack of creativity in both game designs and playstyles.

This is crazy (0)

YAJoe (740850) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693456)

These people miss the point and are wrong.

According to them, Half Life 2, for example, will only be successful because of the original HL's success.

Have they heard of the new speech-mapping engine? Have they read anything about the new rag-doll graphics engine and "materials"? Have they even seen the E3 video of HL2?

These people are trying to downplay success in an attemp to make themselves feel good about not being as smart as Valve, Bungie, etc. HL2, Halo 2, etc. will be successful because they are good games in their own rights. They have plenty of creativity on their own and I believe they would sell about as many copies as if they were originals. Their predecessors are merely useful for name recognition, but nothing more. After all, there are plenty of games that take off without cult followings in place.

I just hope they quit before they start saying really stupid things. I don't want to hear about another top-ten list...

HL2 will be great because HL was????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693459)

Ummmm, have you seen the demo video for Half-Life 2 or played the alpha of Doom 3?

Most gamers aren't looking for complete originality, they're looking for an experience, be it single player or multiplayer, that's fun!

After the News at 11 (3, Funny)

MickyJ (188652) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693470)

This just in: the CPU industry is going to die unless they make round chips instead of the square ones. More details after the news @ 11.

The sequels. (2, Insightful)

LordK3nn3th (715352) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693483)

And why were the predecessors popular? Because they offered what people liked. Half-Life grew in popularity not because of hype but because of how fun it was. Same with Doom, and the GTA series.

Trust (4, Interesting)

firew0lfz (690262) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693485)

in Nintendo...

seriously, we need Nintendo to start making up games again - just like back in the day...

wait a minute...

Actually, now that I think about it, the whole concept behind an Italian plumber and his brother fighting an evil turtle with spikes (ok, its a
"Koopa") to save Toadstools (mushrooms) and a really hot cartoon chick of a princess really by eating fireplants and shooting fireballs, and sprouting a racoons tail and ears to fly does make me wonder what they were doing when they came up with that concept....

(Of course, then again you have to wonder about the Ninja Turtles, Sonic [a flying fox?, a superfast hedgehog?], Power Rangers, etc... Pokemon I can kinda understand, as uhm, they're kinda a pet thing...)

Re:Trust (4, Informative)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693535)

Regarding the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The guys who came up with the original comic book (that later spurned the cartoons, games, etc.) were huge fans of the comic book "Daredevil" and the Frank Miller comic book "Ronin". They sort of combined various elements of those stories and came up with the Mutant Ninja Turtles idea (some of the references in the show were a bit more obvious than others.... i.e. Daredevil was trained by a guy named "Stick", so the Ninja Turtles' sensei was named "Splinter"..... Daredevil fought against a group called "The Hand", so the Ninja Turtles went up against "The Foot").

-Tom

HEH. (5, Funny)

adun (127187) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693486)

'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games'.

*drawing his sword*

I DUB THEE SIR FUCKING OF THE OBVIOUS!

Anti-capitalist pigs!! (1)

finelinebob (635638) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693488)


Sequels sell. If people want to buy sequels, then what should game designers produce? Hmm ... that's a tough one.

[Personally, I think any good game should be given at least one sequel chance. Why bi-yatch about Halo 2? Why not pick on Final Fantasy XI ... I mean, FINAL fantasy ELEVEN?! What's so final about that?]

sequals are good (1)

mixtape5 (762922) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693492)

When I read this the first thing I thought of was the final fantasy series. Although, they really are not sequals the idea is still there. Take an older game that people liked, change the story, modify the battle system and put it on shelfs. It works and the games are still fun. The fact that more sequals are being made is natural because the original games of yesterday are sequal games of today. If an original game comes out today and is a huge hit, most likely there will be a sequal tomorrow. No need to worry!

(Shameless Plug) (3, Insightful)

CheeseMonkey (677515) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693494)

This is not 100% true. Midway's trying to break away from the mold this year- check out their upcoming titles. The Suffering just came out- yes, the survival horror genre is a bit tired, but this one is at least trying to differentiate itself by being more action-oriented, having a branching plotline, other characters to interact with, meaningful decisions to make, etc.

Ballers is coming up soon- I've played it, and I can say it's like no other game I've really played before- like the previews keep saying, it plays like a fighting game/basketball hybrid of some sort.

And, last but certainly not least- coming up later in the year is Psi-Ops, which (ahem) is going to be fantastic :). But, seriously, it is a new IP with a completely new idea and (especially) a completely new play mechanic. There is no other game out there that plays like Telekenisis (the primary weapon in this game) plays. The closest thing I've seen is HL2's "magnet gun", but that is more of an engine show-off gimmick than an actual gameplay element.

Anyway, point being it makes me sad to see this constant claim of no innovation in the industry when I feel like there are people out there trying to innovate. It's not their faul that, at the end of the day, innovation may not actually be what the public wants!

Forgot one! (2, Funny)

pablodiazgutierrez (756813) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693497)

Doom 3, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: San Andreas

Duke Nukem Forever is at least just as close to come out as some of these... :)

analysts pfff (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8693519)

analyst who dont play games talk to a game creator who doesnt have a tenth of the creativity of todays developers, and write a filler story for people who dont play games.

why no mention of nintendo in all this? the same nintendo who has been milking their franches for decades, including iwatani's game pacman. oh thats right this is slashdot, home of nintendo fanboys.

Multi-part games (1)

Reorax (629666) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693532)

Even worse than sequels are multi-part games that force players to buy multiple games in order to not be left with cliffhangers. Xenosaga and .hack are the two main ones.

Xenosaga's not so bad because it managed to form a somewhat coherent game out of its segment of the main plot, it's long enough to be a real game, and the games are being produced far enough apart for me to not feel like I'm being ripped off.

The .hacks, on the other hand, make me want to kill Bandai. Though I've enjoyed them so far (I'm in the middle of the 4th), I can find no reason why it couldn't have been done on one disc. Each game is about 20-25 hours long, even if you spend lots of time exploring various fields and dungeons. They were all released within a year. When you unlock movies from a game (and you can unlock them all), you can watch them on the disc for any subsequent game, meaning it's not a space issue. If anyone can shed some light on why the whole game isn't on one, or even two discs, please do so.

kids grow up... (1)

sashang (608223) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693538)

Kid grows up, plays games, gets bored playing the same type of game over and over again, gets older, makes new kids, new kids play same style game that parent played but for them it's novel because it's a new experience. Which is why games will continue to grow. Games sell an experience. If you haven't had that experience before then you'll play it. If you've had that experience before, the novelty wears off.

And saying "it's all been done" itself has... (1)

SGHarms (167872) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693544)

*ahem* been done

Nothing new under the sun as Herodotus said..

I mean, how many more sit-coms can we mine for movie concepts. I'm not trying to go Filthy Critic here, but what a bunch of lazy-ass grassfsckers.

The sit-coms are a particular beef o' mine. These things are so flimsy they can barely carry 28 minutes of story let alone 90 minutes.

It's like the aforementioned grassfsckers know this so they go all PoMo and "Charlie's Angel's" and mock the fact that they know they have to camp it up to make their shaky premise of a story carry.

What poverty.

Ridiculous (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693575)

These debates are so ridiculous as to make me sick... gaming has the best record of anything in terms of franchises not carrying weight...

A game is a world and when you beat a good one you may want to continue in that world there is nothing wrong with that.

Tribes 2 and UT2k3 are great examples of sequels that didn`t deliver and therefore fell on their face. Daikatana hyped like mad and failed... when you compare it to movies or even books it`s obvious that games are being consumed on a much higher basis of quality...

Games offer many more levels of review than any other medium before a purchasing decision. You can look at screens try demos read reviews even look over the storyline without destroying the enjoyability of a game totally. Word of mouth is pretty strong and piracy is always an option for those on a tight budget or those who have been burned before...

Any debate about the medium (gaming) dying is ridiculous, it`s clearly a superior creative space from any other form of artistic impression and offers more dynamic content control for the author. It will no doubt mutate but survival is almost assured just based on the facts of the medium.

/rant

BS (1)

kacymartin (749145) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693586)

For some reason I don't think the people at Forbes really know anything about FPS games. I think DoomIII and HL2 will do great because they are going to have breakthrough graphics. Screw them.

Uniform Kits (1)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 10 years ago | (#8693590)

What Suprises me the most about current games the only thing that has been reasonably modular about is the game engine. The game engines, lets face it, are not exactly accessible for someone who is not interested in dedicating themselves to a part time job.

The amount of programming knowledge easily becomes a barrier, through in artistry and some level design issues we have created a very high wall for someone to just pick up and design something. As long as the tools are relatively inaccessible you are limited in the number of people who can create games you limit the quality of games in general.

Does that mean no good games are made, no of course not. However, how many people believe that their should be more good games out there than what gets put out right now?
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