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FreeBSD 5.2.1 On SPARC64

timothy posted about 10 years ago | from the lacks-clippy dept.

Sun Microsystems 87

JigSaw writes "FreeBSD has a solid reputation in terms of features and performance on x86, powering sites from Hotmail to Yahoo, yet it doesn't tend to be the first (or even second) OS that comes to mind with many people when thinking of Solaris alternatives for the SPARC platform. Tony Bourke tests FreeBSD 5.2.1 on his SPARC machine."

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87 comments

haha, that's silly! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8730525)

because as we all know *BSD is DYING

propz to GNAA!

Creed of the *BSD user (-1)

britneys 9th husband (741556) | about 10 years ago | (#8754249)

We believe in one Demon,
the Beastie, the Almighty,
compiler of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Operating System, *BSD,
the only Son of Beastie,
eternally coded in Berkeley,
Demon from Demon, Dark from Dark,
true Demon from true Demon,
coded, not made,
of one Being with the Beastie.
Through him all things were compiled.
For us and for our salvation
he came up from hell:
by the power of the University of California
he became incarnate from Berkeley,
and was made slashbot.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he died again
in accordance with the Documentation;
he descended into hell
and is seated at the right hand of the Beastie.
He will come again in glory to moderate the insightful and the flamebait,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Demon, the Beastie, the giver of death,
who proceeds from the Beastie and Berkeley.
With the Beastie and the OS he is trolled and flamed.
He has spoken through the Slashdot Trolls.
We believe in one holy dead and dying Operating System.
We acknowledge one baptism in fire for the forgiveness of bugs.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the death of *BSD to come. Amen.

*BSD is dying

haha, even sillier! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8730556)

*BSD is so DEAD, I managed to get both first and second post!

LORF, I love the Gay Nigger Association of America.

-JesuitX

haha silly silly silly (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8730594)

THIRD POST

Yes folks, count with me

1 2 3! BSD IS DYING!
1 2 3! BSD IS DYING!
1 2 3! 3 TOP POSTS!

I claim this homo hat trick in the name of GNAA! I 3 timecop!

silly^4 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8730670)

Jesus Christ, 4th GNAA POST in a fucking ROW! BSD IS DYING!

So guys, is it just me, or is it kind of strange that BSD also stands for "Blue Screen of Death"?

Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (4, Interesting)

BrookHarty (9119) | about 10 years ago | (#8730673)

Just wondering how FreeBSD can call it a full Tier1 support when they dont support older platforms and no video support?

I'm currently running gentoo on my sunblade 100. Since both netbsd and FreeBSD doesnt support video, only serial connections. I had a hella of a time looking for another OS besides Solaris, and Gentoo was the most up2date one I found. SuSE/Redhat dropped support years ago.

I had to drop SuSE, and switch to Gentoo for a newer kernel and true framebuffer support on my Sunblade. Also the binary packages for the Sparc 2004 is done, so you can install a sparc 5/20 without compiling. (I was told sparc-2004 was done last week on #gentoo-sparc on freenode irc network, but have not confirmed it.) Going to put Gentoo on my Sparc 20.

Also, the article shows they tested the 2.4 linux kernel, would be nice to see how 2.6 on sparc performs. I havn't tried 2.6 yet, as its still development on sparc.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8730747)

when they dont support older platforms and no video support?

Yeah, I was equally as pissed when they announced Quake 3 wasn't going to run on Windows 3.1, or Voodoo2 GLIDE. HOW DARE THEY CALL IT A 3D GAME AND NOT SUPPORT WIN16 WITH GLIDE!

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (4, Interesting)

harikiri (211017) | about 10 years ago | (#8732220)

Just tried installing Gentoo 2004.0 for sparc64 onto a Netra T1 yesterday. Unfortunately, someone seems to have forgotten that some systems are designed without a keyboard/monitor, and is hanging on INIT respawning tty's too fast.

I've also got a bunch of ISO's here at present for BSD (Net/Open/Free) on sparc64, so my next thought is to try out FreeBSD. This article therefore is a welcome and timely suprise. ;)

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8732920)

Bullshit. The netboot images and 2004.0 are both fine with the T1 over serial. If for some reason your hardware is misreporting a keyboard, just hack inittab and telinit q.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (1)

harikiri (211017) | about 10 years ago | (#8733649)

Booting Gentoo 2004.0 off CD, not netboot. Can't be fooked setting up a netboot server for a test box. I'll try FBSD 5.2.1 on it instead. ;)

Re: FreeBSD's burocracy? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8733581)

FreeBSD-5.2.1 is evil-ment very *BAD*.

Just, when i was installing it on my Pentium 200 MHz, 48MiB RAM, it never did end the installation because it was installing at rate 9 KB per second!!!.

Why 9 KiB/s?
I don't know why, but i did a # top and i did see that the CPU was 90% idle and 10% running of cpio, gzip and others programs.

Why 90% cpu-idle for the slower and slower installation?
I don't know why, i believe that FreeBSD's president is hurting us and he wants money with worse and worse code.

open4free

OH MAN! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744818)

You stoopid N00B!!

RTFM!! (Thats read the fucking manual). It states in there quite clearly that it only uses 10% of the processor because the other 90% is needed to create the occult background murmur during FreeBSD resurrection. You FUCKED IT ALL UP. Stay away from my OS, n00b.

I bet you didn't even draw the FUCKING PENTAGRAM IN ROOSTER BLOOD.

Re:OH MAN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8755564)

He is not a stupid, he said 90% idle and 10% running, it's interesting for CSI of the real facts.

I think that the trap is due to bad scheduling of I/O (or signals) or is to suspect the fake binary kernel.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8733393)

From Improving [net-security.org]
Passive Packet Capture: Beyond Device Polling.

"Linux, a very popular OS used for running network appliances,
performs very poorly with respect to other OSs used in the same
test"
(FreeBSD and Win2k).

"The Linux kernel module is almost as fast as the userspace
FreeBSD application".


Percentage of packets captured (in user space), using device polling, at
80,000 packets per second? Linux 5.6%, FreeBSD 99.9%. Linux manages
99.5% only using a kernel module.

SO LINUX MUST GO TO KERNEL SPACE TO ALMOST BE AS FAST AS FREEBSD
WITHIN USER SPACE!
Oh yeah, Linux runs much better than the
BSD's.

Maybe if you BSD is dying trolls stopped crapping on here about BSD
dying and instead actually learned a language apt for your OS of choice,
you might actually be able to bring Linux up to "dead status" with the
BSD's.

But wait, it gets worse! While trying to capture packets from a
DoS application, Linux could only manage capture rates of 0.8% in user
space and 9.7% in kernel space, while FreeBSD managed 74.7% in user
space!


"FreeBSD performs much better than Linux"

"it is obvious that a vanilla FreeBSD system is much more
efficient than a vanilla Linux system when used for packet
capture."

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8734871)

Funny. This zealot is so damn proud of this... is this the only thing you could find where FreeBSD beats Linux? Ha ha ha. You seriously couldn't find *anything* else?

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8735818)

Even SlashDot has limits on the maximum size of the posting.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742684)

Are you joking? Show me a single other performance test where FreeBSD beats Linux published in the past year or two.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8736006)

Funny. This zealot is so damn proud of this... is this the only thing you could find where FreeBSD beats Linux? Ha ha ha. You seriously couldn't find *anything* else?

Funny. A BSD (a Network OS) beating the crap out of Linux (another Network OS) in, err, well, Networking (!) Matters little to you?

How about stability?...

The top average uptimes according to Netcraft. [netcraft.com]

Fucking loser.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742604)

Haa ha ha ha! He can't find a single other thing where FreeBSD beats Linux! Ha ha ha!!!

Go have fun sniffing lots of packets you fucking script kiddie.

(Oh) !( an )d, st()o!p using, (!) (so many) ((fuck)ing), (parentheses). Are, you, (!), mentally, (challenged)?

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744000)

Actually, in Linux, the uptime counter will roll over after a certian ammount of days.

Yeah its retarded, but by no means does BSD have better uptimes.

Of course, BSD users cant live with the truth, so they continue to love to perpetuate lies about other operating systems.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8745507)

And guess what? It rolls over in the newer BSDs (including 4.9 and 5), while not rolling over in recent Linux kernels. Funny thing, progress.

It's not a SPARC port it's a SPARC64 port (2)

nutznboltz (473437) | about 10 years ago | (#8737325)

Just wondering how FreeBSD can call it a full Tier1 support when they dont support older platforms [...]?

Admittedly the lack of SCSI on Ultra-1 and Ultra-2 boxes keeps it off older 64-bit systems for the most part.

and no video support

Are you up to date? The web page [freebsd.org] claims sunblade 100 fully supported.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (1)

sonetsst (598483) | about 10 years ago | (#8742947)

Then get in touch with the developers! I run linux on my powerbook and while I don't have the know-how to patch the problems I run into I can submit them to the ppc dev mailing list.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (1)

rveety (223650) | about 10 years ago | (#8773776)

I'm running 2.6.4 on a sun netra X1, gentoo. I've had some problems in the 2.6-pre versions with usb, and now again with 2.6.5. Otherwise everything is supported and runs noticeably faster than 2.4.x on the same hardware. Versions before 2.6.1 were unstable and seemed to crash weekly or so, but lately its been solid.

Re:Tier 1 and no video, and server only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8792274)

Technically, they support all platfoms that the port implies. This is a "sparc64" port of FreeBSD, and to my knowledge all 64-bit platforms are supported properly; the older sun4, sun4m, etc hardware that I assume you're referring to are not 64-bit, so they're not really being mis-leading or coming up short on the base qualifications for that aspect of Teir-1.

As to graphics.. Well, most of us (at least in my experience) use Sparc hardware (if not FreeBSD as well) pretty much exclusivly for server applications. I don't need or even want graphics on anything with the possible exception of an admin workstation. Even then, once the system is installed the console does work correctly from a CLI.

If you're looking for something that has a nice GUI, try Solaris. If you're looking for something that will be a solid workhorse but headless, this OS is good stuff.

Just my $.02.

Build a lifesize, realistic, decaying corpse (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8731243)

1. Install BSD

A few hours after a person or animal dies, the joints of the body stiffen and become locked in place. This stiffening is called rigor mortis. Depending on temperature and other conditions, rigor mortis lasts approximately 72 hours. The phenomenon is caused by the skeletal muscles partially contracting. The muscles are unable to relax, so the joints become fixed in place.

More specifically, what happens is that the membranes of muscle cells become more permeable to calcium ions. Living muscle cells expend energy to transport calcium ions to the outside of the cells. The calcium ions that flow into the muscle cells promote the cross-bridge attachment between actin and myosin, two types of fibers that work together in muscle contraction. The muscle fibers ratchet shorter and shorter until they are fully contracted or as long as the neurotransmitter acetylcholine and the energy molecule adenosine triphosphate (ATP) are present. However, muscles need ATP in order to release from a contracted state (it is used to pump the calcium out of the cells so the fibers can unlatch from each other). ATP reserves are quickly exhausted from the muscle contraction and other cellular processes. This means that the actin and myosin fibers will remain linked until the muscles themselves start to decompose.

Rigor mortis can be used to help estimate time of death. The onset of rigor mortis may range from 10 minutes to several hours, depending on factors including temperature (rapid cooling of a body can inhibit rigor mortis, but it occurs upon thawing). Maximum stiffness is reached around 12-24 hours post mortem. Facial muscles are affected first, with the rigor then spreading to other parts of the body. The joints are stiff for 1-3 days, but after this time general tissue decay and leaking of lysosomal intracellular digestive enzymes will cause the muscles to relax. It is interesting to note that meat is generally considered to be more tender if it is eaten after rigor mortis has passed.

Nope (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8731763)

The only sparc in BSDs future is the sparc that lights the funeral pyre.

Re:Nope (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8732230)

no such exciting death for BSD I'm afraid, it merely decays, sodomised and abandoned in its mound off in the weeds.

BSD is Dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8731857)

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling
bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD
market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of
all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states
that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've
known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by
failing dead last [samag.com]
in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to
be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's
future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't
be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very
bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red
ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having
lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time
FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point
more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's
keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there
are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of
OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are
about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume
of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put
FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 =
36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.



Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out
of business
and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI
is also dead
, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major
surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and
its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will
be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle
could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.


Fact: *BSD is dying

first post, ballbags! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8731876)

that's right, ya ballbags!

Woohoo for FreeBSD (4, Insightful)

agent dero (680753) | about 10 years ago | (#8734245)

I currently run FreeBSD on x86, i'd run it on sparc64 except they don't support Ultra2's (darnit.)

Somebody mentioned the lack of video support, honestly, there is almost 0-market for a GUI on a FreeBSD/sparc64 machine. If someone wants to run FreeBSD on sparc64 hardware, it's most definitely for a server.

Just be happy, FreeBSD 5.2.x is progressing along nicely, and we're getting closer and closer to -STABLE with it.

One thing to remember when using FreeBSD, is that it's mainly a server OS; that can do userland too, but is primarily for servers.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (1, Troll)

kivaapina (690008) | about 10 years ago | (#8735070)

is that it's mainly a server OS; that can do userland too
What's this supposed to mean ;)

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8735139)

It means "derr... computer words talk me good"

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (1)

agent dero (680753) | about 10 years ago | (#8736178)

It means that FreeBSD is, and most likely always will be, a server OS before it's a desktop OS

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (3, Interesting)

Strog (129969) | about 10 years ago | (#8736533)

I don't know why people keep saying this. I've been using it on my desktop for a while now. All the latest and greatest apps in ports and it makes a really nice desktop. I use it on my servers too with a serial cable hooked up.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742298)

I don't know why people keep saying this. I've been using it on my desktop for a while now. All the latest and greatest apps in ports and it makes a really nice desktop.

Yeah. But some people dont want to be bothered with that shit. I use nothing but FreeBSD, yet I'd never let my wife loose on it.

For FreeBSD (hell, even Linux) on the desktop I'd need to know my wife could use it without bugging me.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (2, Informative)

Strog (129969) | about 10 years ago | (#8746309)

I had installed KDE on my desktop and left it up when my inlaws were over. I had to go run some errands and when I got back my mother-in-law was playing games and surfing the internet just fine. My wife isn't technical but she didn't have any problem when I set her down on a *nix box running KDE either. The only deal breaker for her was Quicken because she could use everything else that she wanted quite easily.

I wouldn't expect either to update their boxes but I would feel safer with a non-updated *nix desktop behind a firewall than a non-updated windows box. It would be a lot tougher if they used a lot of different windows apps/games/etc. but a general desktop can be handled quite well with any *nix if you wanted to. Yeah, most people wouldn't want to bother with setting it all up but would be happy if you gave them a fully configured box that's ready to go.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (1)

Shurhaian (743684) | about 10 years ago | (#8750097)

Perhaps, but setting it up as a desktop requires more overhead than some of the Linux distros out there. Certainly it can be done(I'm waiting to go home to my FBSD box myself), but it's harder for the average user to get to that point.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (1)

mi (197448) | about 10 years ago | (#8738646)

I've used nothing else on my desktops since, mmm, 1996? Not sure. Since 1.1.5.1 anyhow.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8738138)

Its an admission by the poster that FreeBSD can
be used as a server or desktop.

Re:Woohoo for FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742876)

There are a limited number of developers for Sparc64. They're dedicated though. They recently moved to a 64-bit timestamp although it isn't clear who will bother to use a Sparc64 when the year 2035 rolls around assuming some worldwide disaster doesn't wipe out all AMD and Intel wafer fabs before then. Given that XFree86, etc have already been ported to Sparc64 versions of the other BSDs, Unices, and Linuxes out there though, I'd say XFree86 support for FreeBSD-Sparc64 is just around the corner. It's just waiting on developers to fully implement and perfect KSEs, push down the Giant lock even further, and lots of other little items on the 5.3-Release TODO list.

Consider NetBSD too (5, Interesting)

Sour Protein Supreme (762207) | about 10 years ago | (#8734517)

I put NetBSD on most of my Sparc hardware. Because then I can run and build from the same exact source tree of packages as I use on my Intel boxes. And run a kernel built from exactly the same source.

Which brings up a point: both NetBSD/Sparc and NetBSD/Sparc64 will run on an Ultra 1, which is a 64 bit machine. Why doesn't somebody install each NetBSD port on two seperate Ultra 1 machines. Then the benchmark comparision can be between the normal apps that build on both systems, running in parallel on two identical systems. Its exactly the same codebase except for the 32 or 64 bittedness.

Re:Consider NetBSD too (1)

T-Punkt (90023) | about 10 years ago | (#8746689)

I bet /sparc will win. IIRC Sun itself suggest you to run a 32 bit version of solaris on the Ultra 1.

Re:Consider NetBSD too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8755591)

Digital DEC suggest you to run a 64 bits version of ??? on the dead king Alpha 21264 EV7.

Re:Consider NetBSD too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8755701)

Call to China or Taiwan or Malasyia to build a decent Alpha-compatible with DDR400 ECC bus because these americans wan't produce these chips (they patent it but don't produce for the consumers).

Why no?

open4free

Re:Consider NetBSD too (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 10 years ago | (#8837042)

This is because of a bug in the ultra-1 chips that allows a userspace program to deadlock the cpus when running in 64bit mode..

Who cares (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8734838)

SPARC machines were designed to run Solaris. Solaris is a fine operating system. Solaris can be downloaded for free for SPARC machines. Why would any sane person use anything else on such a machine?

Re:Who cares (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742132)

Maybe because the rest of your infastructure runs on something similar? Maybe because the ports system kicks ass? Software support for something that would require 'work' in order to get it running? Win3.1 is okay for some things too, but the question is, what do you do with it? If it doesn't meet your needs, then switching to a different OS might be the best option.

Re:Who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8765235)

The (NetBSD) ports/packages system (pkgsrc) supports Solaris among many other platforms. Check out
http://www.pkgsrc.org

Re:Who cares (5, Informative)

tokki (604363) | about 10 years ago | (#8742460)

While Solaris can be downloaded for free, it cannot always be used for free. The Solaris Binary License has provisions that allow it for development use and educational use for free, but otherwise you've got to pay to play. No one seems to get that. Does Sun enforce those licenses? Not that I've ever heard, but it's still an issue of legality.

If you've got some old hardware, and you want to run some license-inencombered operating system, then the alternative operating systems are a great bet.

There a numerous other advantages as well, such as much more extended hardware support (Sun wants you to pay $400 for a FE card, where you can use a $10 off-the-shelf PCI card with FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc), access to the source code, perhaps a smaller footprint, access to security patches for applications that Sun might charge for (not all of Sun's patches are free).

While people shouldn't just abandon Solaris, I love it too, there are plenty of cases where the alternatives make more sense than Solaris.

Re:Who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8742914)

Going by what I've seen while trying to install Solaris-x86, I'm not sure where you're coming from. FreeBSD installs in a jiffy on whatever architecture. Solaris requires more megs of ram and free disk space than you have, plus two fingers.

Re:Who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8758258)

Going by what I've seen while trying to install Solaris-x86

The difference between Solaris on SPARC and Solaris on x86 is sort of like the difference between driving a new Mercedes-Benz on the autobahn, and driving it on railroad tracks. They are barely the same operating system.

Re:Who cares (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8758339)

The lovely thing about FreeBSD-i386 and FreeBSD-Sparc64 is that they ARE the same OS. No Unix should be architecture dependent. Why? Because that's not Unix.

Re:Who cares (1)

whitelabrat (469237) | about 10 years ago | (#8794232)

I agree. xBSD may be fine on silly old UltraSparcs, but when you get into the multiprocessor world Solaris is a tough game to beat. You can't beat Sun's support as well if you can afford it.

I guess it's all about what you are most comfortable with and your budget/free time.

Trolling in BSD section. (3, Insightful)

dotz (683519) | about 10 years ago | (#8735314)

As it seems, that 90% of the trolling today was sent as Anonymous Coward, perhaps disabling anonymous posting completly would make BSD section of slashdot a nice place to discuss again, just like it should be.

Perhaps, without all these troll posts, Slashdot forum could become a good way to exchange information about BSD vs Linux, or just about BSD in general. As you can see, in the quality discussion, that happened here -- perhaps some Sparc64 FreeBSD users will switch to Gentoo if they want video; perhaps some people trying to install Gentoo on displayless Sparcs will try BSD.

That was just 1 article and 3 comments, and it already helped a few people.

Perhaps, BSD people, who post here stories, could get together and send a petition in some form to Rob Malda, as there is not much sense in seiding him individual e-mails. The situation is not too good.

And, to the trolling crowd... well, in general, I really admire the way you're having fun - all that trolling folklore can be really much creative, and sometimes i ROTFLed watching your nonsense replies - all those penisbird ASCIIs, hidden links to goatse, "mod parent down, site is a goatse link" when the parent was 100% good URL - yea, that was trolling, but that was acceptable trolling, if you ask me (well, I like Monthy Python also, why shouldn't I like some of your posts). Anyway, you don't come up with anything fresh. All that "BSD is dying, you don't have to be Kreskin" - man, I've seen that many, many times. Why do you keep repeating this? It's not funny anymore, it's boring. Also, with some filtering it is very easy to cut it out. Another thing - perhaps if you'd spent some time on actually installing & using some of BSD systems a bit, you'd realize, that BSDs - as all operating systems - have their weak points. Perhaps moving the level of trolling frmo nonsense copy-paste to highly specialized flamewar could bring anything new to the table, because now you aren't creative anymore. And non-creative troll is a lame troll, if you ask me. So, I suggest, that you rather come up with something new, or copy-paste "BSD is dying" posts somewhere else - because continuing to do that doesn't impress me much, really.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8743385)

Wouldn't make a difference to me. I'd just login and begin to troll. I like to troll as an AC because it means that someone has to spend at least one mod point, in order to hide the truth.

BSD is dying posts are funny to me. If I get a luagh from them and reading the BSd zealots who get sucked in, than that is more than enough.

I've never used BSD as such (well I use Mac OS X though) and basically have no idea what it is about. I'm still allowed to comment on whether it is living though.

I'm not out to impress you, after all I'm a troll.
Don't reason with us, we hate (love) that.

P.S. BSD is dying.

Troll out.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (0)

dotz (683519) | about 10 years ago | (#8745095)

Of course, I fully understand, that the whole idea of "is dying" posts is to get new people here (who show a bit of zealotry) envolved. Anyway - I hardly see such people recently, and even if you manage to get some 'copy-n-paste' replies, they got tired of posting them after a while. But I still thing trolling here could change a bit. Esp. recently, when some guy came up with a post, that he runs OpenBSD on a 4-CPU machine. That was pretty funy, in fact.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753429)

Why are you whining about trolls? Thats the stupidest thing I've seen. You are just going entice them to post more crap in the hopes of baiting you into reply (and just to waste your time).

As a FreeBSD user, I really wish folks like you would learn to SHUT UP when reading trolls. You and I both know they are wrong. Anyone else with an IQ above 80 can tell that as well.

Please, give it a rest.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8763178)

*BSD IS DYING

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (1)

endx7 (706884) | about 10 years ago | (#8743436)

As it seems, that 90% of the trolling today was sent as Anonymous Coward, perhaps disabling anonymous posting completly would make BSD section of slashdot a nice place to discuss again, just like it should be.

Or make ACs get -1 (or worse) starting out on the posts in your prefs. Also if the AC trolls do decide to get users, just add them to your Foes list and make those start out with a lesser score.

Occasionally being AC can be useful, especially if you want to post something *gasp* anonymously, or don't think something will fly well with the slashdot community and don't want your beautiful, beautiful karma to get damaged. :P

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8743762)

Oh, cmon... I post as AC all the time.. I've never actually registered with /., and don't feel I should need to.

But on the poor Troll...hey, I ignore him and *pity* him. I mean, c'mon, every BSD related post that comes out he (ok, or she, don't want to be sexist.. but I'd guess he) has nothing better to do than post silly "bsd is dying" posts multiple times. And sady, people like you reply to him, making him post it more times (feeding the Troll).

I mean, c'mon.. the guy has no life. Face it, he has no girlfriend, no job, no friends, his only possible outlet with the outside world is to post these stupid troll posts. Feel sorry for the guy and hope he doesn't turn into the next 'loner' mass murderer or Kaczinski or something.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8743988)

Have you ever heard of ignoring the trolls?

Thresholds and moderation exist for a reason.

EAT MY SHIT TURDBURGLAR. I'LL POST TROLLS AS I PLZ (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744108)

What We Can Learn From BSD

By Chinese Karma [slashdot.org]
Whore,
Version 1.0

Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the
history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry,
and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.

Let's
not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson
and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In
the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the
4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.

These early triumphs would soon be
forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed
suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly
violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling
internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of
various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of
the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he
documents [theos.com] on his
website. Mr. de Raadt's
stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion
of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.

As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality
product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD
distribution make code sharing an arduous task.
Research conducted at MIT [mit.edu]
found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed
TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to

this study.

Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental
flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay,
The Cathedral and the [tuxedo.org]
Bazaar,
rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones
in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that
centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has
significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by
the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating
the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is
licensed under the GPL.

The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard
and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its
earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux
gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will
resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.

Re:EAT MY SHIT TURDBURGLAR. I'LL POST TROLLS AS I (1)

the chao goes mu (700713) | about 10 years ago | (#8814897)

Wait a moment... rival distributions and lawsuits are a sign of failure. Guess linux is dying too. (SCO, 1 Million and 1 distros...) OK... I know, don't feed the trolls... But this one was amusingly bad.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744711)

well, wether you want to admit it or not, BSD is surely dying.

the handwriting is on the wall, another corpse turned over to a charnel house.

it will soon become an OS for dillante diabllers.

fact: *BSD is dead

You are really a pain in the ass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8745729)

Lighten up. This is slashdot, not the "I BSD bulliten board".

You must be a real picnic at a party.

It's a form of free speech (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8747334)

  • All topics are equal here.
  • What you want is special treatment for BSD.
  • To put a long story short, I think you are full of shit.
  • Have a nice day.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (1)

Vspirit (200600) | about 10 years ago | (#8763236)

I'll vote for that.
slashdot bsd forum often appear as a osdn sponsored forum for linux marketeers to cowardly trash another solution to a common problem than what sports their own personal agendas.

On the other hand by giving in to the cowards will be like the us congressmen that encourage privacy intrusion in protection of plutocracy.

<sarcasm>rename the forum to "forum for trashing bsd"</sarcasm> my karma used to be excellent, now I'm probably marked for life.

Re:Trolling in BSD section. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8764119)

And you convitently fail to mention the rabid *BSD zealots who "cowardly trash another solution to a common problem than what sports their own personal agendas".

As usual, the *BSD people are the victims and it must be Linux users who are the ones trolling.

Running it here... (4, Interesting)

slasher999 (513533) | about 10 years ago | (#8743736)

...on my Ultra 5. I cringed thinking about loading Solaris on my Ultra 5 when I decided to use it as a syslog server. I looked around, and FreeBSD 5.2 was the latest and seemed to be the greatest for what I needed. Now I need an rsync server at a remote site and guess what I'm loading on the Ultra 10 allocated for that task? Yup, FreeBSD 5.2 - or maybe I'll splurge and download 5.2.1. Now if I could only install easily without using a serial connection.

Re:Running it here... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744009)

Unfortunately FreeBSD 5.2 and even 5.2.1 is not what you'd call stable. Riddled with problems would be a more apt description.

learn from your mistakes please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744811)

instead of whining and claiming BSD isn't dead, former BSD developers would be better off learning from their mistakes (i.e. why BSD died).

Here are the reasons, as I see them

  • Monolythic kernel
  • Bad control over user community (visit #freebsd IRC channel for world's most unpleasant and psychotic people who can write in semi-literate English)
  • The OS/ports system simply does not help the users to manage complexity (It does, of course, compared to fetching and configuring everything by hand, but when you are familiar with better alternatives like SUSE, Debian, even Gentoo - you will not be impressed
  • Lack of introspection and honesty within the community. When the BSDers saw that were being outdone by "competition" instead of trying to improve, they simply lied and lied and lied like Iraqi generals instead of doing something to improve the situation)

Re:learn from your mistakes please (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8744953)

Monolythic kernel

OK great, so we know right off the bat that you don't know what you're talking about.

Now some of your other points may be valid, but I disagree that BSD is dead. You have to define what it means for a software project to be dead, but it is still being actively worked on and has a userbase. So I say it isn't dead.

It has fallen on hard times though. The latest development cycle is years overdue and is still terribly unstable so it is likely to be at least another 6-12 months. When it is released as stable, it is not even clear that it will match the performance of the old Linux 2.4 kernel in key areas like networking throughput and SMP scalability.

FreeBSD is no longer widely acknowledged to be at or close to the pinnacle of free software technology. Even most of its developers don't try to make these claims anymore.

The sole reason for this, that I can see, is that FreeBSD has too many chiefs. To make matters worse, the chiefs are actively kicking the indians out. When they are not pushing away their developers and alienating their user base, these "chiefs" sit around patting each other on the back, whining about how crap Linux is, and how many operating systems are using their TCP/IP stack, and presumably smoking the wacky^Wpeace pipe. Anyway, they certainly don't do any coding.

Re:learn from your mistakes please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753793)

FreeBSD is in fact a monolithic kernel, unless you are talking about the "technology preview" vaporware.

OpenBSD is also monolithic.

I'm not sure about NetBSD - probably the same.

Re:learn from your mistakes please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753866)

Yeah, but Monolythic? And that being one of the reasons it died? I don't think so.

Re:learn from your mistakes please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8758174)

At least you are acknowledging it died.

This is the first step to coping with your loss.

Re:learn from your mistakes please (4, Interesting)

dotz (683519) | about 10 years ago | (#8752510)

I exactly known, what you mean about the ports system. FYI, you don't mean "the port system itself", you just have problems with installation of binary packages.

Of course, you can pkg_add http://URL, and it will automatically fetch dependent packages, but the problem is, you need to know the exact url. Package name, package version, .tgz or .tbz - that's a bit confusing. You're right. It can be done better, just like the way Debian does that. Debian simply rocks when it comes to binary packages - and I am pretty happy, that it exists, so it showed the way in this area.

I suppose I will be doing some work in this area with NetBSD packages collection (pkgsrc) [pkgsrc.org], but that should be easily portable to FreeBSD and OpenBSD ports. The whole idea is, that if you generate an index file for all binary packages on the site. Information would include the description, requirements, size - pretty much everything found in +* files (+DESCR, +COMMENT, +PLIST and other) - perhaps I could use Berkeley DB format for it. Then, in an user-level utility, you just need to give one URL to fetch that description file (bzipped, of course). Then, such utility could work much like Debian's apt-get and apt-cache - a frontend to pkg_add and a quick way to browse all available, but uninstalled software. We'd have a friendly utility for new users for all BSDs.

Also, as pkgsrc is portable [pkgsrc.org] and there are already binary packages avialable for Linux [netbsd.org] (not to mention NetBSD, of course) from the latest branch of pkgsrc -- we'd just need to add that small utility to bootstrap binary kit for pkgsrc, and you'd have then binary pkgsrc available for your box -- pretty much for all Linux distributions. These are all cool projects, and they can give you perhaps much more, than some Linux distributions (especially those ones, who "lock" user in a maze of incompatible binary packages and their dependencies ;). In fact, it can even be the basic package system on your Slack [slackware.com] (and it is available from some time, so you don't have to create another Slackware-packaging-system). Oh, wel.

And, perhaps, if FreeBSD Ports not impress you, when compared to Gentoo, perhaps you should try then NetBSD packages collection [pkgsrc.org]. Maybe the number of operating systems and platforms will somehow impress you, it impress me for sure. Of course, there are bigger and smaller problems, as they always are, in any opensource product, but perhaps with more users activley contributing to the project (just by testing the packages -- that's just using some of your CPU cycles on pkgsrc, instead SETI@Home ;)

BSD? Dead? I don't think so. There's massive active development going on in all areas of each of the BSDs, there are thousands of lines of code shared among developers, lot of new ideas submited, lots of problems solved. There are a lot of companies and sites using it (among others, About.com, Yahoo!, distributed.net, Juniper, NASA)... Check uptime stats on Netcraft [netcraft.com] itself, FreeBSD rules in the top ten.

Its just perhaps BSD people are usually too busy doing their projects to comment here, so you can get a false impression ;) Or, perhaps, noone likes to answer troll comments - but you've got a point with that packaging system, so that's why I bothered ;)

Have a nice day!

Re:learn from your mistakes please (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753365)

Of course, you can pkg_add http://URL, and it will automatically fetch dependent packages, but the problem is, you need to know the exact url.

You don't. Try "pkd_add -r package_name". It will fetch and install package that is appropriate for your FreeBSD architecture and version.

Re:learn from your mistakes please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753720)

pkd_add -r package_name


A lot of time, a binary is unavaible, and when it's available, and you install it, it often has compatibility problems, and when you holler, BSD zealots tell you "you should have compiled from source! That's how BSD is meant to be used".

The fact is, BSD project just has too few dedicated developers/packagers to afford thorough ports/package testing

Re:learn from your mistakes please (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753419)

Check uptime stats on Netcraft [netcraft.com] itself, FreeBSD rules in the top ten.

Hate to burst your dellusionary bubble, but up until 2.6, Linux machines would roll over after 497 days. Of course, this fact, which is pointed out time and time again, gets convinently ignored or "forgotten" by BSD zealots.

Read it and weep, BSD troll [seclists.org]

BSD trolls should be cut off, permanently (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8753758)

I will soon start collecting
signatures for a petition to
cut the BSD trolls off slashdot.
Permanently.

The "BSD" section of slashdot should
be disabled, because this isn't a real
topic anymore.

Pity it's only SPARC64... (3, Interesting)

grahamlee (522375) | about 10 years ago | (#8763703)

...because I only have Sun/Texas Instruments SPARC boxen, no Fujitsus around here I'm afraid.

Oh, I see, they mean SPARCv9. Why couldn't they say so? Given the number of manufacturers who make SPARC [sparc.com] processing units it's a bit of a shame that many Open Source projects only claim to support the one manufacturer's chips.

BTW has anyone got any experiences of running this on TI UltraSPARC IV machines that they'd like to share?

Dillon still contributing to FreeBSD (1)

nutznboltz (473437) | about 10 years ago | (#8768555)

Well bug reports anyhow.

CVS log for src/sys/sparc64/sparc64/uio_machdep.c

Revision 1.2 / (download) - annotate - [select for diffs], Sat Apr 3 09:16:26 2004 UTC (2 days, 4 hours ago) by alc
Branch: MAIN
CVS Tags: HEAD
Changes since 1.1: +1 -1 lines
Diff to previous 1.1 (colored)

In some cases, sf_buf_alloc() should sleep with pri PCATCH; in others, it
should not. Add a new parameter so that the caller can specify which is
the case.

Reported by: dillon

Sun Blade 1500 (1)

davidu (18) | about 10 years ago | (#8791468)

I'll go ahead and ask it here since it's mildly on-topic...

Has anyone ever gotten anything to install on a Sun Blade 1500 other than Solaris 8?

I have a brand new Blade1500 sitting next to me at work and it won't even run Solaris 9.

It's a total piece of crap -- Debian won't boot and I couldn't get NetBSD up either.

Sun really put out a piece of work when their own OS won't run on it...

thanks,
davidu

Re:Sun Blade 1500 (1)

BrainStain (683708) | about 10 years ago | (#8827480)

I just finished an install of Linux on a 1000. Do check the OBP version, however, I read the same advice for a SILO error, and it turned out that I had compiled the serial driver as a module, not in the kernel..


few notes - make the kernel as small as possible, 1.5M or so is too big,

was able to boot strap the install from debian woody with 2.4.18, after trying various other offerings from gentoo and aurora, but

note no cdrom or floppy was available, and nfsroot failed due to nfslockd on the linux laptop.


you'll need to know that once you get a tftpboot you'll want an ext2 filesystem, SILO won't take ext3 for root, and oh yeah, OBP mantra : boot net devfs=mount root=/dev/sda1 init=/bin/sh once you do get a partial install from the debian scripts will help. the devfs will prevent a lockup after the kernel loads

the sparc64-linux-gcc did compile a 2.4.25 kernel, but too old for 2.6, and couldn't get gcc3.3.3 compiled; I could only install the kernel with make-kpkg and then dpkg the .deb, oh, and always make-kpkg clean; make-kpkg kernel_install each time you try a new config, you'll end up with unresolved syms otherwise.

1600x1200 on the display flickers, so run 1280x1024 at least on the ATI.

there is a audio driver in the "normal" sound drivers selection in the kernel config that matches the sun chip, but use the one for Sun audio outside of that menu it will conflict, however still don't know if I have sound.
HTH - took days to tread through the mine fields, saw the sun rise this morning and it was done.

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