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Microsoft Preps 'Janus' Music Copy-Prevention Scheme

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the doomed-warclub-which-no-man-can-own-but-only-rent dept.

Microsoft 466

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft is expected to unveil copy-protection software this summer that will for the first time give portable digital music players access to rented tunes from all-you-can-eat subscription services -- a development that some industry executives believe will shake up the online music business." Janus is the Roman god of doorways, gates, passages, preventing people from copying music, etc.

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Are they kidding? (4, Insightful)

erick99 (743982) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749251)

This will get hacked very quickly by folks who would like access to high-quality downloads and the fast download speeds that commercial sites afford. I am assuming that Microsoft and the record labels know this but figure it will be a small problem? It is a shame that my first response to this is not "how cool is this?" but, rather, "this will be hacked." But, since all of this is in response to piracy, I am surprised that these folks will hang their hats on a software solution. Oh, well.

Happy Trails!

Erick

Serious question (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749289)

Has Apple iTunes been hacked yet? As in giving people un-encrypted, un-watermarked AAC files?

Re:Serious question (4, Informative)

user no. 590291 (590291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749350)

Yes [videolan.org] .

Re:Serious question (4, Informative)

b17bmbr (608864) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749399)

Has Apple iTunes been hacked yet? As in giving people un-encrypted, un-watermarked AAC files?

actually, i think someone did. there's also i think a windows/itunes app that captures the stream. but more importantly, the whole drm thing is moot. you can go

aac -> cd audio (for car, etc.) then go cd -> aac/mp3. the resulting aac/mp3 is drm free. (i kow becasue the mp3's play fine on my linux box as well as my ibook). and i haven't noticed a drop in quality from aac w/drm -> cd -> aac w/o drm. so the whole cracked scheme is not important. all it takes is a $.25 cd and a few minutes.

note: no, i did md5sum the two aac files, becasue they would of course be different. but, if someone has audio software to measure levels, etc., i'd be curious.

Re:Serious question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749477)

Actually, you are re-encoding the file, so you are probably experiencing a large drop in quality. Whether or not you notice/care is another issue.

Re:Serious question (5, Insightful)

barthrh2 (713909) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749507)

Steve Jobs knew this from the outset. Accorting to a Fortune article, he went to the labels and said "Look, we have some really smart people who know this drm stuff down cold, and you can't stop it. What makes it worse, is that once you have the key you can unlock every door". He used this as the justification for an uncomplicated scheme.

Getting hacked would therefore come as no big surprise to Apple/Jobs. But when you add it up:
Unlimited burns + no expiration + multiple devices + multiple computers = Not worth the trouble.

The iTunes model is so open, there is little reason to hack it. Of those who would want to, you then have a subset of those with the skills to do so, and you end up with an insignificant number.

The new MS model, with an expiration date, screams for a hack. But then again, there are a lot of time limited software demos, and I don't suppose that anyone tries to hack those...

Re:Are they kidding? (1)

blowdart (31458) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749337)

This isn't new, you've been able to enforce time limits since DRM v1 for Windows Media. Windows Media downloads have also been available in Europe for a couple of years, including an all you can eat, time limited service. It's still going, unhacked.

When freeme came out a patch was available in about 48 hours which still hasn't been broken. So that's about 2 years no hack.

Re:Are they kidding? (5, Funny)

mlush (620447) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749357)

This will get hacked very quickly

and the bettings good that the cracking program will be called Hugh allowing one to Hugh .....

Re:Are they kidding? (5, Funny)

dragoncortez (603226) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749377)

oh come on, the article says, "Janus would add a hacker-resistant clock to portable music players for files encoded in Microsoft's proprietary Windows Media Audio format." We all know that when Microsoft makes something hacker-resistant there's just no way to crack it.

no hacking required (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749391)

Get Total Recorder [highcriteria.com] . Listen, grab, rip. You're as good as gold.

Re:Are they kidding? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749405)

Janus will soon become "Anus"

and microsoft will be making an ass out of themselves...again.

Re:Are they kidding? (1, Interesting)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749407)

Think about what is going on here in order to hack it. You would have to reverse engineer the software, bypass the authentication/security mechanism, then connect to a server with your IP address to pilfer music. All the while, M$CO and the RIAA are sitting back with a piracay and DMCA greivance. This would be about as bright robbing a bank naked, in broad daylight, and using your own car as the getaway vehicle.

Re:Are they kidding? (5, Funny)

Oliver Wendell Jones (158103) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749500)

This would be about as bright robbing a bank naked, in broad daylight, and using your own car as the getaway vehicle.

Think about the kind of people who are reading this right now...

Now picture them naked.

Ok, now think about what kind of sick, twisted, perverse people are actually going to take a good look at those kind of naked people and ask yourself, "Do any of those sick, twisted or perverse people work at my bank".

If the answer is no, then this might actually be a feasible plan...

I've already hacked it. (4, Interesting)

baudilus (665036) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749420)

Step 1) Rent song.
Step 2) Put rented song on mp3 player.
Step 3) Go to Radio $hack, buy an adapter cable to connected mp3 output back into PC.
Step 4) Record song from Sound Card's 'Line In' using a high-quality program like Goldwave [goldwave.com] .
Step 5) Enjoy all the choonz you want for $10 / month.

History *will* repeat itself.. (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749255)


Pay for time limited, rental media? Has Circuit City's DIVX fiasco taught them nothing?

If there were a demand for such an item I can see them working on it but the media companies try these silly schemes that have no consumer interest. Naturally they'll end up somehow blaming P2P for this system's inevitable failure.

Yep, I dub the effort MSMusIVX!! (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749324)

It should be really interesting to see how quickly this gets adopted. Like you say the model is really similar to DIVX and people in general just do not like rentals.

TV subscriptions are one thing because most shows are transient, and you can record forever the ones you like. But a music subscription offers no similar benefits, only an ongoing cost and limitations on use (can you burn real CD's with a subscription service?)

Broken already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749367)

Connect digital out from pc sound board
to digital in of sound board on next pc
over. Record. Play. Distribute.

Better yet, install Windows on bochs [sourceforge.net] ,
and connect bochs audio output to a file. Distribute.

Re:History *will* repeat itself.. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749379)

I'm sick of this argument that DIVX failed because of the rental model. DIVX had so many things going against it that most consumers rejected it before they even figured out how the rental model worked:

+ Only available at Circuit City
+ Only on crappy, non-brandname players
+ Smaller movie library
+ All DIVX player play DVD, not all DVD players play DIVX - the standard was obvious.

In short, it was basically betamaxed out of existence. Besides, just because geeks hate the rental model doesn't mean Joe Sixpack wouldn't find it appealing.

Re:History *will* repeat itself.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749454)


Besides, just because geeks hate the rental model doesn't mean Joe Sixpack wouldn't find it appealing.

There are countless more "Joe Sixpacks" than there are geeks: why then did DIVX not take off?

I ARE JANUS I MEAN JUNIS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749256)

Good Bye Horses my love. Dedicated to kewsh [slashdot.org]

You told me, I see you rise [thekremlin.net]
But, it always falls
I see you come, I see you go
You say, All things pass into the night
And I say, Oh no sir I must say you're wrong
I must disagree, oh no sir, I must say you're wrong
Won't you listen to me
You told me, I've seen it all before [thekremlin.net]
Been there, I've seen my hopes and dreams
A lying on the ground
I've seen the sky just begin to fall
And you say, All things pass into the night
And I say, Oh no sir, I must say you're wrong
I must disagree, oh no sir, I must say you're wrong
Won't you listen to me [thekremlin.net]
Good-bye horses I'm lying over you [thekremlin.net]
Good-bye horses I'm lying over you [thekremlin.net]

HELLO (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749437)

I have looked at all the pix on your site. More plz.

Karen, that didn't happen to YOU! (-1, Offtopic)

The I Shing (700142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749260)

The following should be read out loud in a high, squeaky, Megan Mullaly style voice:

Oh, no, not the Janus browser!

That evil Judge Reinhold was going to use it to destroy the Internet and kill the president!

Thank God Scott Bakula and Kris Kristofferson showed up and saved us! Or was Kris Kristofferson the bad guy?

Matt Drudge (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749488)

Matt Drudge [drudgereport.com] is pretty handsome.

I'd suck his cock and relieve him of his pathological conservatism if I ever met him...

Divx, anyone? (4, Insightful)

punkass (70637) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749261)

Didn't we already learn that people don't want subscriptions, they want the actual media to keep for posterity?

More on Janus (5, Funny)

spoonboy42 (146048) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749266)

Lest we forget, Janus is also two-faced.

Re:More on Janus (1)

Delirium Tremens (214596) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749296)

Lest we forget, Janus is also two-faced.
Indeed [google.com] . Very good point. And that's scary.

and it also looks like j-anus (1)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749334)

which is two cheeked

Re:and it also looks like j-anus (0)

lambent (234167) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749425)


Shouldn't that be four cheeked?

Re:More on Janus (1)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749384)

In the Yin-Yang sense, the dualistic animal/noble nature of man.

Re:More on Janus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749472)

Janus is the god of beginning and ending. Hope it's ending for m$ this time =)

btw january comes from his name.

Same ol' Same ol' - confusion (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749267)


So to start with, you'll have to get a different player that supports this "secure clock". Then you have these issues:

Music service executives said they were still in negotiations with record labels over how to treat the new technology. Allowing people to bring thousands of songs at a time to portable players may wind up costing more than the $10 a month that most subscription services charge today, the executives said.

Well that's certainly going to help - keep up the level of confusuin with different rate plans based on what you might want to do.

Nevertheless, some music services are eager to drive more consumers to subscription plans, since per-song download stores have tiny or even nonexistent profit margins.

Because what always excites the consumer is helping a company make more money.

I would think artists would not be too fond of subscription services - they must get quite a bit less (if anything?) from such services. As someone who wants to help out an artist why would I want to support a subscription services? Seems like just another refined means of ripping off people who make the music.

For 10$ per month this is too much hassle (1)

lupine (100665) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749506)

You can get satellite radio with 100+ channels this includes 60-70 commercial free music channels for less than $10 per month(after paying $100+ for the hardware). I think this is clearly the way to go for non-stable audio. If you want to fill up your ipod you could just plug the audio inputs into your computer and record a few hours of a station with a good mix. Circuit City thought they could convince people to buy into pay-per-play for movies, this will fail for the same reasons.

Next Slashdot poll... (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749268)

How long before someone figures out how to bypass the restrictions.

Re:Next Slashdot poll... (1)

stecoop (759508) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749402)

Plug the ouput of my sound card into the input. If I can hear it, I can record it. Be it a digital record or on a casset tape, it can be done.

Re:Next Slashdot poll... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749424)

Done [slashdot.org] (also above comment)

Re:Next Slashdot poll... (0)

aminorex (141494) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749499)

Already done.

what will happen (2, Funny)

enrico_suave (179651) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749271)

what will happen to my music when this little fly by night company "microsoft" goes under?

=)

e.

A prediction about Janus (1)

CleverFox (85783) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749274)

I predict Janus will be broken within a month of release. The army of teenage hacker wannabes will not be stopped by mere encryption technologies.

Janus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749276)

Why does a DRM scheme named after a two-faced god not surprise me?

Janus & Junis (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749280)

Janus is the Roman god of doorways, gates, passages

And Junis is a guy in Afghanistan, who watches movies on his Commodore 64.

An MS product named after a two-faced god. (2, Funny)

Trespass (225077) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749284)

How appropriate. So, have the eastern europeans hacked it yet?

When will they learn.... (3, Insightful)

axis-techno-geek (70545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749286)

...what will it take, I'm guessing less than a year before someone figures out how to circumvent this copy protection.

"Making bits uncopyable is like making water un-wet." -- Bruce S.

Re:When will they learn.... (4, Insightful)

The Other White Boy (626206) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749363)

hacker-resistant : hacker-proof :: water-resistant : water-proof

=)

Re:When will they learn.... (4, Funny)

sTalking_Goat (670565) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749404)

Everytime I hear someone use the phrase "hacker-proof". I think of the Titanic's designers calling it "unsinkable"

Copy protection (3, Insightful)

October_30th (531777) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749287)

Copy protection?

Yeah, right.

I remember those things from the 80s - never stopped C64 game sharing.

your old (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749331)

huhhuh.... old man.

Re:Copy protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749353)

Yes! - Now we have gone full circle! and will be recording the music directly back onto C90 tapes! - Just like C64 games in the 80's!

Well done Microsoft!

=)

"Hacker-resistant" (1)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749288)

Janus would add a hacker-resistant clock to portable music players for files encoded in Microsoft's proprietary Windows Media Audio format

some people never learn

Pricing? (3, Insightful)

baudilus (665036) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749290)

I can't see much good, when you can already buy tunes with iTunes [apple.com] and Napster [napster.com] and the like, for just $.99 per song. Can the price of a rented tune be that much less?

On a side note, unless they find a way to copy-protect sound waves, they will never be able to defeat copy protections. You can always play the song and record it in real time on an analog source.

rented tunes (1)

Coneasfast (690509) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749292)

The summary was a little misleading, this is what the article means by 'rented tunes':

"Fans of portable players could then pay as little as $10 a month for ongoing access to hundreds of thousands of songs, instead of buying song downloads one at a time for about a dollar apiece."

Re:rented tunes (1)

SFBwian (744032) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749390)

So essentially, it's more like NetFlix, on a larger, musical, scope... right?

Re:rented tunes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749421)

They mean you can listen to all the music you want if you pay for the monthly fee. If you stop the subscription then you have nothing to listen to anymore.

Dammit (2, Interesting)

mix_master_mike (540678) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749298)

They are working in the wrong direction. It's not about copy protection anymore - the niche market that the ipod hit is no longer a niche market. The name of the game over the next few years will be make a store with music you can easily put on anything, take anywhere. I predict Apple makes their flavor of CP open.

One Question (5, Funny)

MrRuslan (767128) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749301)

Can you "disable it" by holding the shift key while inserting the cd?

I could be wrong, and if I am I'll eat a bug, but (2, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749306)

My gut reaction is this won't fly, because who's gonna be willing to keep forking out money in perpetuity in order to have useable access to their music and/or player? But then again, isn't this similar to the Tivo business model?

Reminds me of something else... (4, Interesting)

airrage (514164) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749307)

I recently tried out the Wal-Mart 99c per song download and found it pretty cool, DRM and all. I was able to download to my work computer and then copy to my home computer (with the license). So both are viable in both locations.

The only downer is the fact that if you lose the licenses you're screwed.

Also worked on my MP3-player so I can take the song running.

The interesting note is I charged the song. So it ended up being 99c. This was the only charge for the month on my credit card. However, my balance for the month was zero! Wal-Mart had given me a 'Small Balance Credit' which I assume is that it's probably less of a loss (99c) then some transaction fee (several dollors) from the credit card company.

So I guess you get twelve free songs a year if you handle this correctly!

I don't want to rent...I want to OWN.

Re:Reminds me of something else... (2, Informative)

blowdart (31458) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749387)

"The only downer is the fact that if you lose the licenses you're screwed."

Start Media Player. Pull down the Tools menu, then select License Management. Choose Back Up now.

Tada. You're no more screwed than anyone else who doesn't backup.

There's Irony in there naming... (4, Funny)

sTalking_Goat (670565) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749308)

Janus is the Roman god of doorways, gates, passages, preventing people from copying music, etc.

Society of Janus is a San Francisco based BDSM education/support group...

know what it is exactly you're consenting to when you click accept on EULA.

Re:There's Irony in there naming... (1)

sTalking_Goat (670565) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749366)

forgot the url

Society of Janus [soj.org]

/. needs an edit option

Janus? (4, Funny)

arevos (659374) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749313)

Sounds more like a name of some diabolical, secret plot to rule the world.

"Launch project Janus!"
"You'll never get away with this!"
"I already have, Bond! Within minutes, the world will have no choice but to bow to my demands... or face the consequences."
"You fiend!" ...Maybe I've had too much caffeine recently.

Re:Janus? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749433)

Janus was the name the villian in Goldeneye went by.

Re:Janus? (1)

Keith Russell (4440) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749478)

Sounds more like a name of some diabolical, secret plot to rule the world.

Actually, it's a diabolical secret plot to genetically engineer the perfect Judge. [imdb.com] That Janus project failed when it produced Sylvester Stallone and Armand Assante. If only Microsoft's effort would meet the same fate, with Rob Schnieder as a sidekick.

Janus (0, Redundant)

Debian Cabbit (412271) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749315)

IIRC, Janus was also two-faced. Kind of reminds me of Microsoft, actually.

ooooh wonderful (1)

tekiegreg (674773) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749318)

So a copy protection standard gets the name of a Mutual fund company whose investments in I've been questioning, I guess it's time to liquidate my shares in that fund completely now...

Michael's At It Again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749321)

Janus is the Roman god of doorways, gates, passages, preventing people from copying music, etc.- michael

From wikipedia: [wikipedia.org] , Janus was the god of gates, doors, beginnings, endings and doorways.

Curiously, I see no mention about preventing people from copying music.

Perfect. (5, Insightful)

tm2b (42473) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749323)

A two-faced god [pantheon.org] that claims to stand between the primitive and civilization, but is in fact just a product of the primitive superstition of a decrepit culture.

Perfect.

seems incredibly easy to bypass (1)

TheUberBob (700030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749326)

I mean, i dont need to read the technical specs to know that it produces sound. Hello? There should be any number of ways to simply hookin on the transfer of data at the software level or, failing that, just grab the actual output. It's not like it requires much processing power to rip it back into something non-copy-protected.

It'll probably happen, but it will take longer... (1)

Johnny Doughnuts (767951) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749332)

Microsoft learned some hard lessons from the X-Box. They were selling them at a loss, and then people started to put linux on them, or putting a larger hard drive into it and a new dashboard. They could copy the games onto the harddrive, and not need the DVD.

I doubt they're going to do something idiotic again, but... it is microsoft...

And when it comes out (1)

Diclophis (203740) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749333)

I will look forward to downloading the hack to let me copy the music... or just plug the headphone jack into the mic in, and use sndrec32.exe to make a nice .wav of it.

What the hell... (2, Interesting)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749336)

What the hell is "rented music"??

Sure, I can see rented videos...But rented music? Who the heck rents music?

Little digital audio player with Microsoft 'Janus' technology.... Meet my digital-in connector =D

(or if they don't have digital out (which sucks and I wouldn't buy it anyway) then analog-in works fine too...)

Hundreds of thousands of songs! For 10$! Can't beat the price. W00t!

These guys are REALLY really dumb.

Re:What the hell... (1)

blowdart (31458) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749414)

What the hell is "rented music"??

You're thinking of it in the wrong way. Imagine a BlockBuster where you pay a monthly fee and you can watch whatever you want. So change it to music. I'd happily pay 10 pcm to access the entire catalogue for say, EMI.

Cracker is the Roman god of.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749340)

....keys, passwords, serial numbers, combinations, and sledgehammers.

yeah. right. (2, Funny)

kulakovich (580584) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749342)

"a hacker-resistant clock"

Like that water-resistant watch I used to have.

It wasn't water-proof

kulakovich

*Sigh* (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749344)

Michael just had to throw his anti-Microsoft comment in there. Well guess what you nigger? FUCK YOU!

Hacker resitant? (1)

Pranjal (624521) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749345)

Janus would add a hacker-resistant clock to portable music players for files encoded in Microsoft's proprietary Windows Media Audio format.

Yeah sure. Like those two words can go together.Hmmpf

Seems like a strange thing to name a DRM scheme. (4, Insightful)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749358)

"Janus head is a popular phrase for deception, that is, when action does not match speech."

So says Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] ..or perhaps a very appropriate one?

How Fitting (1)

Doesn't_Comment_Code (692510) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749364)


Is that Janus, as in the two-faced?
What an interesting choice of names. I don't know what aspect of the project they are refering to though. Two-faced because they pretend to help customers while back-stabbing their fair-use?

Two-faced because they will sell this to media providers and then act suprised when it is hacked?

Or two-faced just because of the company it came out of?

Maybe all three? Time will tell.

jAnus? (-1, Offtopic)

Kunt (755109) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749365)

What a stupid name! jANUS!!!

uh, oh! (1)

rock_climbing_guy (630276) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749368)

When I say that this involves Microsoft, I somehow parsed this is "Microsoft will unevil copy-protection software."

Here we go again. (1)

NetNinja (469346) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749369)

Another 2 million used to prevent the inevitable.
A challenge!

Minor Edit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749371)

Janus is the Roman god of doorways, gates, passages, preventing people from copying music, etc.

Should read: Janus is the Roman god of doorways, Gates, passages, preventing people from copying music, etc.

Clever Romans! (-1)

graveyardduckx (735761) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749381)

They even had a God for copying music!?! Great, now they're going to demand royalties for 2000+ years of copied music.

Why Rent When You Can Own? (5, Insightful)

dslpwr (636101) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749383)

I read the article this morning, and sent to some friends. I have multiple problems with it.

1) I don't want to "rent" my music. I want to buy.

2) I don't want my music in crappy WMA format.

3) The tinfoil hat wearer in me sees this as a way for the music/software industries to indoctrinate the next generation of consumers with the idea that you don't "own" anything.

As the sidebar in the article says "If fans of iPod-like devices can be convinced to drop the idea of owning song files, they could shift to paying a subscription fee for ongoing access ..."

Pass.

High Cost of DRM... (5, Insightful)

SuperChuck69 (702300) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749385)

It's kind of a naive question, perhaps, but is the cost of creating strong copy protection worth the savings in pirated items?

Before MP3s were Satan, I had a stereo system (hi-fi for us old folks) that could easily "rip" CDs, records, or tapes to cheap portable media (blank tapes). It didn't seem to be an issue then...

I would actually be very interested in an all-you-can-eat music subscription, provided it gave me files in the MP3 format. I have an MP3 player in my house, office, car, and person, but I don't have a Janus player anywhere!

Stop spending all your money trying to stop me from sharing stuff, just sell me stuff I want.

With MS behind it, Janus will be HUGE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749393)

Yes, repeat after me, MicroSoft's HUGE JANUS! I want to get downloads from Microsoft's HUGE JANUS!

2 faced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749400)

I'd like to point out that Janus is often depicted as 2 faced or in reference to someone having 2 faces. That is figurative, of course.

microsoft copy protection? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749403)

Been there done that...this is just another thing to hack, crack, bypass, or in general step arround.
Just saying that those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Hmmm (1)

da3dAlus (20553) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749408)

I wonder what Janus Capital Group [janus.com] will have to say about the use of their name? ...
Oh c'mon, I'm sure that if Pheo-Firebi-Firefox gets a request to change their name due to previous claim, why not MS? Oh, right.

Name already taken? (1)

nadda (613664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749410)

JANUS is already used for information retrieval by some libraries.
What will MS do, buy them out?

As a Canadian... (2, Insightful)

IamGarageGuy 2 (687655) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749411)

I can see no reason to buy a player that restricts my ability to play music. Sorry, I'm still all a flutter with the news yesterday about downloads.

Come on, people. (4, Insightful)

NaugaHunter (639364) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749415)

Unless they've already developed a new, proprietary headphone, a high quality 1/8" to RCA cord already circumvents this. Or -hello- get it from the CD. This 'prevention' will only matter if they can actually get exclusive content that people want, and anything that can be listened to can be copied.

File this under "Too little; too late". If this was here 10 years ago it would have ruled the market, even 2 years ago before iPod/iTunes made legitimate music buying easy* it would have had a chance. Now it's just another unwanted product; at best a footnote in a future history book.

* I'm thinking specifically of when the iTunes Music Store came to Windows. To head off the 'no ogg/Linux support, so no business from me!' posts, that most assuredly applies to this new product as well and is pointless in a comparison.

So how are we calling the cracking project? (1)

EulerX07 (314098) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749416)

Project Hades?

Or maybe project Zeus, with lightning being the metaphor to the elapsed time between the release of software supporting Janus and a hack/crack.

Release the Kraken (0)

imgumbydamnit (730663) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749467)

...from Clash of the Titans.

Guaranteed hard-failure of player? (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749441)

Given that the system relies on a "secure clock" - it must be some kind of chip set with a time and then sealed with a battery. Otherwise, how can it continue to keep time independant of that player loosing battery power or knowledge of time?

So then - what happens when the power for this embedded secure-clock runs out? Your player needs to go in for repair, as I doubt the "secure clock" is user-servicable.

Or, perahps the chip just counts up as long as it has power. So if you only use it now and then you might be able to keep the song-embers alive for years as you slow time to the device.

I guess it won't matter since the system will be cracked before it becomes an issue, but it's kind of like buying a car with a pre-wired explosive charge under the hood set to go off in severeal years. "Not to worry!" the salesman says, "You'll have a different car in seven years anyway!".

Sounds more like ANUS (1, Troll)

Marble68 (746305) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749447)

As in, ripped or torn.

Fits MS perfectly (4, Insightful)

Bendebecker (633126) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749452)

Janus, the two faced god. They claim to help the users and then stab them in the back for the sake of the corporations.

There goes our project's name (1)

leoboiko (462141) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749464)

I've been working for a year in a project to analyze legacy databases from my university and make predictions from them. I tought a good name was Janus, the two-faced god who looks to the past and to the future simultaneously.

/me hates namespace pollution.

Janus (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8749484)

It's two-faced.

Subscription Models suck.. (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#8749487)

I would never get a subscription to view TV.. err... Ok i would never get a subscription to listen to satellite radio.. ummmmm

well id never get a subscription to drive my errr ummm car.... or live in my apartment..

The general public is used to subscriptions ...its all around them.... i doubt they will balk about this..

*we* may refuse .. but the general public is used to not being able to own anything anymore, to them its just one more monthly fee to 'get stuff'......
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