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Canadian Minister Promises to Fix Copyright Law

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the doh dept.

The Courts 569

Mashiki writes "In Canada, we can download Mp3's and their assorted goodness without too much of a hassle, recently the CRIA and their friends lost the court case. Well, it would appear that the new Federal Heritage Minister Helene Scherre, has spoken and those words were: 'As minister of Canadian Heritage, I will, as quickly as possible, make changes to our copyright law.'"

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569 comments

CDR Tax (5, Interesting)

Alternate Interior (725192) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760181)

So does that mean the CD-R Tax disappears?

/not canadian

Re:CDR Tax (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760230)

Please enjoy my creamy nutjuice.

Re:CDR Tax (5, Insightful)

Barbarian (9467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760242)

Of course it won't.

Re:CDR Tax (5, Insightful)

epiphani (254981) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760257)

Why exactly is this rated +4 Funny? In canada, we pay a levy (not a tax, theres a difference) on our blank media that goes towards those music industries whiners. If they plan on making Copyright law such that Downloading becomes illegal, then fuck me paying extra for the CDs that I use for lagitimate uses.

Re:CDR Tax (3, Insightful)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760303)

Of course there's a difference between a levy and a tax. A tax would go into the same government General Account that all taxes do, but the levy goes to CRIA.

Re:CDR Tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760323)

Oh don't worry, government bureaucrats will always find other ways to waste your money. You'll always pay the "levy".

mod parent down (-1, Troll)

dj245 (732906) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760327)

ooh, you flamed on the improper use of "tax" instead of levy. Aren't you clever! Perhaps you missed the big "/not canadian" on the bottom of the post. Or perhaps you just enjoy trashing people who get first +5 post. I don't even think you are Canadian yourself, because everyone knows Canadians are incapable of violent thoughts.

contents of post would make me

/NOT Canadian

Re:CDR Tax (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760264)

have you ever heard of a tax being repealed (canadian or not)?

And this is why voting is important (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760182)

Even for Canadians.

Re:And this is why voting is important (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760243)

Do you have any idea how many seats the liberals hold outside of Ontario and Quebec? Not bloody many! There hasn't been a liberal elected in Calgary since Trudeau's NEP, and precious few in Alberta. Trudeau dies and we have to listen to a bunch of eastern bastards moaning about what a saint he was. Those same eastern bastards elected the corrupt twits who are pork barelling their way to another election. Heck, out here we even get the election results before we've had a chance to vote! You have no idea how important your right to vote feels when everything is decided before you get a chance to vote! Don't talk to us about the importance of voting! We'll vote for anyone *but* the liberals yet again, and guess who'll wind up running the show yet again?

Man, I really hope the western separation thing takes off. If you thought keeping Quebec in the country was a tough sell, man you have another thought coming. Sooner or later people out west are going to realize that the benefits of confederation all flow one way, and that's the same way as the transfer payments! Quebec, by comparison, were the ones receiving our money. That's why they stayed.

Re:And this is why voting is important (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760273)

It's a shame that you wasted seven minutes of your meaningless existance to type all that out, yet no one here will ever read your tripe, or garner a care, either.

Re:And this is why voting is important (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760292)

Sooner or later people out west are going to realize that the benefits of confederation all flow one way, and that's the same way as the transfer payments!

See, the problem is that the west has something to offer, where Quebec should have been given the bum's rush years ago. If all those frogs had been told to shove it, and actually had to make it on their own, they would be crying to get back into Confederation by now. But the western provinces could easily go it alone. Biggest mystery to me is why they haven't figured it out yet.

poor canada (-1, Flamebait)

Indy1 (99447) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760184)

it almost sounds like the republicans have moved north and started corrupting the political process with hordes of lobbyists, bribes, etc. Canada, as an American, heed my warning. Fight off the fascists now while you still have a chance. Dont end up like us, living under an increasingly brutual republican regime that cares only about fortune 500 profits and religious extremists.

Uh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760193)

There are plenty of Democrats in bed with the movie and music industries. Howard Berman [house.gov] , a Democrat from California is probably their biggest backer in Congress.

Re:poor canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760210)

This isn't flamebait, it's the truth. But I guess there's no option for voting -1, DoublePlus Bellyfeel Ungood.

Re:poor canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760216)

It's hardly the truth. There are people in both major parties that back the RIAA and MPAA. It's not a partisan issue at all.

Re:poor canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760244)

Check out movie industry contributions / music industry contributions. The Dems are the party of Hollywood...

Hate to burst your bubble (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760259)

DMCA was passed by Clinton

Senator Disney Hollings is Democrat

so is Hollywood Congressman Rick Bermann

please, get out of your partisan bubble and see the light. its not just one side

10 reasons why the US is hated all over the world. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760185)

10 reasons why the US are is hated.

1. The US has started (and "encouraged") more wars and murdered more
humans in a 50 year period than anyone else before in recorded
history.

2.The world constantly watches images of starving children whilst in
the US people are dying of over eating.

3. The US boasts that it has spent billions on being able to bomb
anyone, anywhere on the planet. Meanwhile starvation, and premature
death continue to affect millions of people worldwide whose only crime
was being born where they were.

4 The US makes virtuous speeches about fairness, liberty and justice
then continues to enact policies designed to keep a third of the world
in a state of constant starvation. For example, The US purposely
stopped the supply of cheap non-brand Aids drugs to Africa just to
placate the drugs industry. As a result millions will die who could
have been saved.

5. The continual support by the US of regimes that oppress their
people so that other US parties can gain an economic foothold.

6 The American belief that profit is all. People don't count.

7. American hypocrisy. ( I feel most of us in this NG could write a
book on this one but I'll keep it short)
Virtue, honesty, truth. None of these mean anything when US economic
advantage is at stake. We have watched the US invade and murder
thousands all in the name of "regime change" or "protecting US
economic interests" in various countries. If they haven't been there
pulling the triggers you can be sure they paid for one sides (or both)
weapons.

There isn't a continent on this planet that the US aren't killing
people directly or indirectly. Even their own yet the US tells the
rest of the world that they cannot have weapons that kill
indiscriminately. ( the US has once again refused to stop using
cluster bombs and uranium tipped shells) and is the only country to
have used nuclear weapons and poison gases to kill thousands of
people.

8. The continual military support of Israel and it's attempted
genocide of the Palestinian people. Once again, humans die to protect
US economic advantage.

9 The insane belief that most Americans in this NG espouse that we
(the rest of the world) are jealous. That somehow we are not affected
by the murder and slaughter committed by US troops all over the globe.
That somehow, other humans , i.e us, should not criticise the US govt
for the same reasons Americans don't. WRONG. We are not blinded by
your flag If anything the US has taught us a lot about the dangers of
blind loyalty backed only by a flag. Your govt kills innocents then
hides behind the flag and you idiots buy it all.

10. The worst criminals in all this are the US electorate because they
are the only ones who can stop this slaughter but they refuse to
acknowledge their govt has done any wrong. Even with 90% of the world
screaming for the US to stop killing , the electorate do nothing. You
just sit there, hiding behind the flag or using any excuse your govt
has given you to justify the continual slaughter of innocents.

So don't ask me why America is so hated. I find it more interesting
to know how the world will respond eventually to a country that is
nothing but evil. And respond we will.

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760219)

You pinko - prepare to be enslaved by your American masters!

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (0, Troll)

garroo (748175) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760274)

Well....

I for one welcome our American Overlords.

But they can keep the DMCA.

BTW: You have some facts blatently incorrect. Many countries have used poison gas, some against its citizens.

Now, while the US may be interested in growing and keeping markets open to trade, don't think other countries don't also feel this way.

Why do you think the Russians, Germans, and French were the big complainers about Iraq?

Hmmmm? You ever see the numbers on weapons to Iraq? I just named the top 3 contributors, and America was not even in the top 5. Hell, even CANADA sold weapons to Saddam.

Oh, and Iraqi pre-war exports? Hmmm I think I also named the top 3. So, did they Europeans really want to stop Saddam, but use different means, or did they just want to keep the status quo of them getting rich off the backs of the persecuted Iraqi's? Hmmm?

Ask yourself some hard questions you neo-stalanist. You are of the same breed of idiots that would defend suicide bombers, all the while they are using your misplaced sympathy to impose Islamo-fascist regimes around the world, and terrorize... you guessed it... secular-social democratic people around the world.

STFU with your damned jealousy of the worlds biggest and best superpower. It smacks so badly of "my country is small and pitful, so I'll complain about the US". Every nation on this planet has done terrible things. Hell, even Canada uses ID CARDS like in South Africa to say who is and isn't an "aboriginal". They are creating genocide there by means of disinterest. /end rant

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760319)

Well....

I for one welcome our American Overlords.


I don't, the American Government needs to be "fixed" before I'd ever consent to that.

Why do you think the Russians, Germans, and French were the big complainers about Iraq?


But you didn't see China complaining about the invasion of Afghanistan, now did you.

Hmmmm? You ever see the numbers on weapons to Iraq? I just named the top 3 contributors, and America was not even in the top 5. Hell, even CANADA sold weapons to Saddam.


You are more or less correct, however, AMERICAN companies in CANADA sold weapons to Saddam. Thanks muchly, you can keep your MIC along with the DMCA.

STFU with your damned jealousy of the worlds biggest and best superpower. It smacks so badly of "my country is small and pitful, so I'll complain about the US".

The United States of America has some pretty serious problems, and the 15% of your population that controls the democratic process needs to be expanded, to deal with these problems. IMO.


Every nation on this planet has done terrible things. Hell, even Canada uses ID CARDS like in South Africa to say who is and isn't an "aboriginal".


Yes, it is. But would you argue for no status for aboriginals who are presently not in the same social levels as the rest of the country? Do what the United States has done with the immigrant populace, or even the prison population. That's the american way isn't it, don't identify any cultural groups at all and just ignore the problems.


They are creating genocide there by means of disinterest.


As a first nations person, I can say that there isn't disinterest by the government nor many people. Perhaps there's disinterest from the commercial sector, but what do you expect? It's not like many bands are wealthy, you know.

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760288)

More like, 10 reasons why the US is KICKASS!!! WOOOOOOOOO GO RED WHITE AND BLUE!!! YEAH!!!

Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like PATRIOTISM.

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760289)

4 The US makes virtuous speeches about fairness, liberty and justice then continues to enact policies designed to keep a third of the world in a state of constant starvation. For example, The US purposely stopped the supply of cheap non-brand Aids drugs to Africa just to placate the drugs industry. As a result millions will die who could have been saved.

Do you realize that AIDS is not curable? Do you realize that these anti-AIDS drugs you talk about prolong your life a 3 or 4 years, but you will still die regardless? Do you realize that prolonging the life of an african with aids means he will have more time to infect other people?

Of course you don't.

Re:10 reasons why the US is hated all over the wor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760332)

Why is the parent moderated troll? It should be Funny, I'm still laughing!

Why Americans hate Europeans (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760337)


There are many reasons why Americans increasingly despise and distrust Europeans. First, the continued support of terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah by the french and others. The continual "trying" of communism. May Day is almost an official EU holiday. The millions of europeans who march on May Day is just another example of the leftist brainwashing that perpetuates Europe. Europe is the origin of so much suffering in the past century that for the most part people around the world look at the europeans with a wary eye. Third worlders can't trust europeans because of the barbaric colonizations of the third world by europe. Europeans have a serious issue with jealousy of Americans. Because of the fascist, socialistic policies of many Europeans countries, the standard of living of these people is much lower than Americans, so europeans take out their frustrations on America. The continued acceptance of the nanny state philosophy continues to degrade Europe until eventually it will become 3rd world. Germany has so many structural problems and the inability to face them that they are facing serious economic issues well in the latter half of this century. France continues to be a quasi-marxist state where it's next to impossible to conduct business and do research. Look at all the french scientists that are packing their bags for greener pastures. Spain has been scared into electing proto-marxists. The United Kingdom now has realized 1984 with cameras on every street(all in the name of safety). The reason that John Kerry did a violent reversal of his bragging of foreign endorsements is because if he would ever accept an endorsement of someone like Chirac it would be the deathnail of his candiacy. These are the reasons that europeans are despised by the vast majority of Americans.

AOL CDs (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760190)

I'm more concerned with the fact that I'm getting AOL CDs in the mail with jewel cases made of wood lol.

Re:AOL CDs (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760294)

Mine was delivered in a nice collector's tin. I guess AOL is catering to the fact that people are really hording these, rather than using them...

Ah, good. (5, Funny)

trudyscousin (258684) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760192)

My faith in human (read: political) nature has been restored!

russia (-1, Redundant)

pcmanjon (735165) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760195)

In soviet russia there is no copyright law!

In Soviet China. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760290)

There is no (respect for) copyright law.... yet.

hmm (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760201)

maybe instead of fixing the copyright law, they could "fix" michael (ie, cut off his nuts) so there won't be any chance of him accidently hacing sex with a woman and having offspring.

Re:hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760297)

i agree. I was talking to a militant pro-lifer yesterday. (Side note -- ever notice most pro-lifers are white men?). I showed him some of the stories michael 'edited'. He decided that abortion was ok, and even recommended, in some cases.

If you're in Canada (like me) reminder her... (5, Interesting)

barc0001 (173002) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760208)

That a federal election isn't that far off... And slogans like "Helene Scherre wants to put your kids in prison" look great on T-shirts and the news...

Re:If you're in Canada (like me) reminder her... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760238)

If you make 'em, I'll wear one.

Re:If you're in Canada (like me) reminder her... (2, Funny)

Typh (768310) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760271)

I think I will remind her, since she is a public official, contact information for her office and her email address were not that difficult to find. I sure hope that this information does not fall into the hands of hoards of Internet users.

Re:If you're in Canada (like me) reminder her... (5, Interesting)

Ubernurd (648801) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760341)

Here's what I just told her:

Record labels and stores make most of the money from CD sales in stores while most musicians make their money from CD's and merchendise sold at the side of the stage at live events. Attendance is determined by the popularity of the band and without p2p filesharing, many Canadian bands wouldn't be as well known as they are. Canada is a sparsely populated landmass and it's expensive to tour. mp3's are the best way to reach the most people to boost attendance. So are you truly looking out for my best interests (I'm a Canadian musician with 3 Cd's in stores) or are you catering to the labels lobbying for legislation?

Termage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760209)

"Plug the hole." "Fix copyright law."

Is this good, or whack? I can't quite figure out who wants what.

The battle rages (4, Interesting)

ites (600337) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760213)

Between governments and the people. Already countries have to compete for the best citizens. Eventually they will realize this means making laws people _like_ as well. I'll postpone my departure to Canada until the dust has settled.

Go ahead... download away! (-1, Offtopic)

shawnywany (664241) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760214)

PSYCH!

Malcolm has the right idea (5, Interesting)

silvaran (214334) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760215)

Fair enough. Some people download music, some people don't. But consider his quote:

"I think it's a challenge for the industry, to try and find a new way to survive."

This lends creedence to many a /.'ers comment that the music industry is holding onto a failing business. We don't need them anymore. Despite being wrapped up in the industry by being the winner of a [cheap knock-off] American Idol* contest, he sees the Industry's role as "a new way to survive," as opposed to some criminal challenge that they must overcome.

My hats off to him, especially given his previous quote, "Whether people download or not, as long as they're listening to music."

* Yes, I'm a Canadian. Paul Martin has yet to earn my respect.

Re:Malcolm has the right idea (1)

Mr Very Angry (758914) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760247)

OK but if the music industry is bankrupted, which I have no stake in btw, how many jobs are going to be lost in the USA? Worldwide?

1 million, 10 million? Will these people find other creative things to do (if selling music is creative)?

Re:Malcolm has the right idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760261)

Yeah, they'll get a job like the rest of us. Or try.

Re:Malcolm has the right idea (1)

Mr Very Angry (758914) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760267)

OK fair enough. So your saying that working selling music is not a real job?

Do you want to extrapolate that to selling anything at all?

Re:Malcolm has the right idea (1)

UserGoogol (623581) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760305)

No, he's saying that if being unemployed is good enough for him it's good enough for them. (Sorta.)

Gee... (5, Insightful)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760217)

I wonder what she means by "Fix" when talking to the recording industry. I have a feeling that it would coincide perfectly with "break" to everyone else.

The real criminals don't break laws; They write them.

Re:Gee... (5, Interesting)

Phekko (619272) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760356)

Haven't you ever heard of price fixing? This should be something along the same lines ;)

From the beginning of CD times, the price to manufacture a CD record has gone down all the time. Yet I haven't witnessed a single price drop in CD prices. Somehow the laws of supply and demand don't work in the record industry and I fail to see how this is not a monopoly/cartel. Think about it: Same companies all over the world. About the same price levels everywhere, regardless of record company or country.

Yes, I do believe politicians are indeed "fixing" things for the record industry. What else is new? Recording industry is just too powerful. The real question is what to do about it. My ignorant answer is that bands should become independent entreprenours and forget about the record companies altogether. 100% is a lot more than 5% or 10% even if you lower your prices a bit. I don't know what the current percentage of profits for the bands is but I do believe some the OSS principles could be applied to the music industry and the rest would be pretty simple to work out with common sense. Or then I'm puffing on the wrong ciggie again.

No power. (5, Insightful)

g-to-the-o-to-the-g (705721) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760221)

This is just one minister. Whether or not she can pass any bills is up for debate. The bottom line is that we pay levies now to download music, and the music industry shouldn't be able to make us pay levies and buy music. They can't screw us twice without someone noticing. Recently someone noticed [slashdot.org] too.

Re:No power. (2, Insightful)

saforrest (184929) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760276)

This is just one minister. Whether or not she can pass any bills is up for debate.

But Martin can, and I suspect he's in favour of her position, particularly given his appearance to coincide with her statement.

I had to say I expected something like this, but the urgency the government feels towards it does not hake me happy. But the emphatic "we're on it" pronouncements seem to be standard operating procedure for the Martin Liberals.

Of course, it would be even worse under the Conservatives, so what can you do?

Re:No power. (5, Interesting)

janbjurstrom (652025) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760296)

The bottom line is that we pay levies now to download music, and the music industry shouldn't be able to make us pay levies and buy music.

This is very bizarre, isn't it. In my country, alcohol is treated in this way: artificially high taxes (meant, in this case, to keep consumption down - for national health reasons, they say), and laws against making your own (for the same reasons, manage consumption).

Ok, the analogy might not be perfect - but shall we treat music as a barely legal drug?

Let's teach those Canucks a lesson! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760222)

Lawbreakers abound in Canada. Look, we all agree on one thing: Canada is a state of the US. That means they need to follow our goddamn law. If they insist on breaking copyright, I say we institute an embargo on all Canuck goods until they obey. If they continue to refuse, the US should declare war on them. Send all the illegal Meskins as our proxy troops, invade Ottawa, and force the Linux-using hippies to pay for all the MP3s they've stolen. That'll teach them ice monkeys a lesson!

Wow (4, Interesting)

Zakabog (603757) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760223)

Canadian Idol winner Ryan Malcolm expressed skepticism, and suggested the Canadian music biz find a way to live with file-sharers.

"Whether people download or not, as long as they're listening to music," he said.

"I think it's a challenge for the industry, to try and find a new way to survive."


Wow I've never heard that from someone outside of slashdot, now we just need american idol singers to say that, and maybe nsync and britney spears, then MAYBE (doubtfull) people would listen.

What really kills me is that Bill Mahr (I think he's really funny and I love his show on HBO) calls downloading music stealing just like tons and tons of other people. It isn't stealing, you can't steal something by copying it, I wish more people would understand that. It's copyright infringment, not stealing.

Re:Wow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760307)

do you mind if I rape your wife/mom/sister/dog?

I mean, you can still have sex with her afterwards, so no big deal, right?

Re:Wow (1)

Narchie Troll (581273) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760325)

Your statement assumes that the problem with rape is that the man is deprived of sexual favors from the woman in question, which I believe went out in favor shortly after Stonehenge was built.

And as citizens of Canada... (3, Funny)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760226)

We will, as quickly as possible, remove minister Helene Scherre from office.

(/me dreams of being Canadian just for a while)

Re:And as citizens of Canada... (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760338)

As someone who is Canadian, I'd appreciate info on what positions the other parties have on these issues (copyright law/cd-r tax). Has anyone heard anything from the Conservatives or NDP?

WTF???? (4, Interesting)

mark-t (151149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760231)

FTA:
Justice Konrad von Finckenstein ruled that the Canadian Recording Industry Association didn't prove file-sharing constituted copyright violation - and artists and producers have no legal right to sue those who swap files without paying.
Okay... copyright means that the author has the absolutely exclusive _rights_ to copy the work and others can only obtain _permission_ to copy the work by authorization from the copyright holder. Fair use, btw, is granted permission by the copyright act and the copyright holder has no choice but to implicitly grant that permission.

So in what world is putting a file that you do _NOT_ own the copyright on, and have not actually obtained permission from the copyright holder to copy for purposes beyond fair use, in a publicly shared folder for others to obtain _not_ a violation of the copyright act?

Downloading copyrighted materials may be perfectly legal in Canada (albeit unethical IMO, since one is aiding another in violating copyright), but it makes no sense to even _BEGIN_ to tolerate uploading whenever and wherever you can positively ascertain that it is occurring.

Re:WTF???? (5, Insightful)

Barbarian (9467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760250)

So in what world is putting a file that you do _NOT_ own the copyright on, and have not actually obtained permission from the copyright holder to copy for purposes beyond fair use, in a publicly shared folder for others to obtain _not_ a violation of the copyright act?


In the same world where a library can place a photocopier in the same room as books without getting sued. In fact, the judge in this case made that analogy and cited as precedent a case several weeks ago where a law library had been sued.

Re:WTF???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760275)

In the same world where a library can place a photocopier in the same room as books without getting sued. In fact, the judge in this case made that analogy and cited as precedent a case several weeks ago where a law library had been sued.

Yes, but that is a bad analogy. The vast majority of library users copy a few pages of a book or magazine. Copying the entire book is illegal. Many copy shops close by to Canadian universities get busted for this now and then.

Anyway, I'm sure the music biz will appeal, so this case is far from over.

Re:WTF???? (1)

Barbarian (9467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760351)

Yes, but that is a bad analogy. The vast majority of library users copy a few pages of a book or magazine. Copying the entire book is illegal. Many copy shops close by to Canadian universities get busted for this now and then.

Yes, but it's not the library's responsibility to police that. They just post a notice near the copier at best. Kind of like how most p2p software gives you a warning.

Re:WTF???? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760251)

Well dipstick, the original article about the ruling has been around since last week. If you really wanted to know, as opposed to just wanting to show your ignorance, you would have looked it up and read it. But here's your first clue. The judge has a lot more intelligence than you do.

Re:WTF???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760345)

At least the poster bothered to read the article before posting, so give credit where it's due. Further, not everyone is up to speed on every news bulletin that happens to flash by.

By the way, beginning your disagreement with an insult directed at the character of the other person doesn't actually do much to refute the point being made. You calling the poster ignorant??? I guess it takes one to know one, huh?

Re:WTF???? (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760258)

The analogy he used was having photocopiers in a library. By providing said photocopiers, the librarians are assisting people in exercising their fair use right to copy a small amount of a book.

Re:WTF???? (2, Interesting)

mark-t (151149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760309)

But tell me, in a library where there is a photocopier amidst thousands of copyrighted books, is the library actually _distributing_ any copyrighted content without authorization? While it's arguable that they are enabling such action, are they actually participating in it? No? Good. We're on the same page.

But putting a copyrighted file that you have not received permission to distribute in your shared folder *IS* unauthorized distribution, no matter how you slice it. It becomes illegal the moment you publically share the file, even if nobody has yet downloaded it because you have assumed for yourself a right or permission that can only be granted by the copyright holder.

Re:WTF???? (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760334)

The court seemed to miss the fact that folders don't just share themselves over a network. You do have to install software to share it, answer requests, send the data. That's like a library with an on-site copyshop rather than a photocopier. (I hate stretched analogies.)

(Clueless users who don't realize that they're sharing their drive with the planet are another problem.)

Re:WTF???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760263)

Justice Konrad von Finckenstein

There's a Canadian judge running around with the same name as me?

Re:WTF???? (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760283)

It'll depend on how higher courts interpret the case. Technically, there's no difference between running p2p software with a shared directory of music, and a website with the same. (In fact most p2p software uses modified HTTP code.) I think the recent photocopier case [canoe.ca] that got a 9-0 verdict from the supreme court focused the wrong analogy in this judge's thinking and he went too far.

Can I now "file-share" any commercial software as well? (Yes, music is a different deal, but Justice von Finckenstein's ruling doesn't seem to note that.)

It sure was a laugh to watch the record companies try to roll over the ISPs and court in US DMCA style, and get far far more than they barganed for.

Re:WTF???? (2, Informative)

MJOverkill (648024) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760312)

Uploading is perfectly fine. The Judge in this case is clarifying the grey area that existed in Canadian copyright laws with regards to file sharing and the Private Copying extension to the Copyright Act. The Private Copying extension to Part 8 of Canada's Copyright Act allows people to make copies of other people's CDs/Tapes/Whatever for their own personal use. The judge is just clarifying the act by saying that file sharing falls under this law. This happens all the time with other laws as new technologies and ideas become mainstream, technologies and ideas that could not have been considered when the law was written. If file sharing had been prominent in Canada when the extension was written, it may have very well been mentioned as being legal (or illegal for that matter) in the Private Copying extension.

Re:WTF???? (5, Interesting)

pla (258480) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760314)

So in what world is putting a file ... in a publicly shared folder for others to obtain _not_ a violation of the copyright act?

The actual ruling read more like an extreme interpretation of "plausible deniability". Basically, while we geeks might laugh at the idea of "accidentally" leaving files in a shared directory, the masses of computer users often really don't understand the difference between what makes the choice of where to keep their music legal or illegal. Additionally, as several of the RIAA's suits showed, some people believe that paying for Kazaa means they have paid for access to the music.

Sounds stupid? Sure, to us. But if the majority of people doing this honestly do not understand whether or not they have broken the law, the law becomes essentially unenforceable. As one possible Devil's Advocate situation, I can imagine someone installing Kazaa for some random legal purpose, then deciding to store all their own legally ripped music in the directory Kazaa conveniently made for them.


Downloading copyrighted materials may be perfectly legal in Canada (albeit unethical

Actually, I'd disagree about the "unethical". Canada has really quite high taxes on all blank recording media, a sort of "we assume you'll copy our stuff, so get your money in the blanks" approach to piracy. Thus, since the punishment comes built-in to the media itself (whether or not they use it to pirate music doesn't change the "tax"), you could reasonably call it perfectly moral to go ahead and commit a crime already paid for.

Re:WTF???? (0, Troll)

mark-t (151149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760330)

But if the majority of people doing this honestly do not understand whether or not they have broken the law, the law becomes essentially unenforceable.
That's bullshit.

Ignorance of the law should never be accepted as an excuse to break it.

I can accept your view that you disagree that it is "unethical" to download, but I did qualify that remark as being just my own opinion. I don't download copyrighted stuff even though I could _because_ I think it's unethical.

Re:WTF???? (1)

sudog (101964) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760333)

In a Canadian one. Personal use is now a guaranteed, court-recognised right in Canada. If you don't like it, go live somewhere else.

Re:WTF???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760353)

Recognized by one court. If a higher court decides otherwise or the law is changed will you move?

Just as long as they.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760235)

...keep Bob and Doug McKenzie from making any new records, I'll go with whatever law, or lack of laws.

And get Rik Emmett back into Triumph!

Why so bad? (1)

leabre (304234) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760239)

Well, and sharing musing with 10 million of your Internet buddies should be a copyright infringement. The copyright holders should have a right to re-inforce their legal protections. Why copyright it in the first place if it makes no difference? So the Gov't should "correct" the copyright law in this case.

However, as with all things corporate and gov't marital, there will be abuse. What shouldn't be "corrected" is the fact that currently, the CRIA (or whatever they are called) can't enforce the law themselves. Control the gov't. Sue whoever they want because a Word document file is named brittanyspears.mp3.doc or whatever.

The gov't should enforce the copyright based on copyright law and have as little direct or direct-indirect influence from the corporate entities. The relationship should be that the copyright holder file for the copyright and if they suspect it is being violated, come up with the burden of proof. None of this "settle with us for $2000 or we'll sue for 2 million" nonsense that so encombers our current US legal system while other more appropriate legal issues are getting second treatment while the courts are tied up.

But in all, the fact that the current copyright law isn't protecting the copyright holder is indeed a problem that needs to be corrected, just not by the CRIA/*IAA cronies.

This isn't a popular /. point-of-view, but I don't care. It's the truth.

Thanks,
Leabre

Re:Why so bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760253)

The gov't should enforce the copyright based on copyright law and have as little direct or direct-indirect influence from the corporate entities.

Hahaha, thats a good one! What are you, a comedian?

Re:Hey shithead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760272)

Just because you claim it's the truth, doesn't make it true. You need to remove your head from your ass and get a few facts. Study the history of copyright law. You may be amazed to find that you have virtually no understanding of the subject. Study the opinion of the judge in the Canadian case. Right now you don't have the slightest clue what he said. And then when you have done all that, read about how downloading music doesn't harm sales of music, and may actually help in some cases. Then maybe you'll have some idea of the truth.

Re:Why so bad? (1)

John Starks (763249) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760299)

That would all be true if Canadians didn't pay a tax on writable digital media that gets handed to the CRIA. Canadians are already paying the music industry because file sharing supposedly hurts revenues. If this is happening, why do they deserve additional protection? They already have an incentive to create music, and that's represented by the tax.

Re:Why so bad? (1)

shark72 (702619) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760349)

"That would all be true if Canadians didn't pay a tax on writable digital media that gets handed to the CRIA."

As a point of clarification, only about 15% of the levy goes toward the record labels. The rest goes to songwriters and performers.

I do not believe that paying the levy gives one the moral right to pirate music. Here in the USA, citizens pay for the operation of police departments, yet we are still subject to law enforcement. Law-abiding citizens being forced to pay for the wrongdoings of others is, sadly, not a Canadian invention.

Re:Why so bad? (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760300)

Sure, no problem. After all, I don't download music. Now how about they pay me back the hundreds of dollars they've taken (stolen) from me in levies on CD-Rs for backups?

NO MORE OSDN ADS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760240)

You heard it here first!!!

If I run Apache on my workstation and serve out a simple entertaining GIF (say a naked woman), then I put:

127.0.0.1 ads.osdn.com

in my /etc/hosts or C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts file, I no longer see those annoying ads!!! :))) Instead I see naked byootiful poon. Try it, you'll like it!!!

ApacheTroll

Re:NO MORE OSDN ADS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760310)

Sir ApacheTroll,

Please inform the Slashbot crowd that they will need to redirect all HTTP requests to said gif, because I seriously doubt that they would have the valid path "/?ad_id=2688&alloc_id=6532&site_id=1&request_id=8 319565" in their web server directory.

Please make necessary revisions, kthnx.

Share and Care (3, Insightful)

amigoro (761348) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760241)

To share or not to share, that is the question.

There is no doubt that the singers and other supporting personnel do need to make money from their talents. For this to happen, people have to buy their music. But when people share music collections on P2P services, the artistes are, without doubt, robbed of their fruits of labour.

However, at the same time, it must be noted that more c90% of proceedings from CD sales go to the record labels. P2P sharing hits more the big record labels than the actual artistes.

A P2P system where the artistes get paid per song downloaded would be an ideal solution.

Canadian Idol winner Ryan Malcolm expressed skepticism, and suggested the Canadian music biz find a way to live with file-sharers.

"Whether people download or not, as long as they're listening to music," he said.

"I think it's a challenge for the industry, to try and find a new way to survive."

The vast majority of artistes vehemently support electronic means of music distribution over the CD method. They have been ripped off by record labels for too long. Sadly, the United States of America, has now become United Corporations of America, and all laws dealing with P2P file sharing has been enacted according to the dictates of the rich record labels and their lobby groups. The wishes of the artistes are hardly ever taken into consideration. It'll be a sad day indeed if the much more socially progressive nation of Canada follows in the footsteps of her corporacratic Southern Neighbour.

Moderate this comment
Negative: Offtopic [mithuro.com] Flamebait [mithuro.com] Troll [mithuro.com] Redundant [mithuro.com]
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Re:Share and Care (2, Interesting)

shark72 (702619) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760320)

"However, at the same time, it must be noted that more c90% of proceedings from CD sales go to the record labels."

For what it's worth, it's a little different down here in the US. A CD that you see in the store for US$12.50 was sold into distribution for about $8.00 -- so about a third of the price you pay goes to the channel.

You're correct that the record label collects that roughly $8.00 at which the CD is sold into the sales channel, but in most cases, 100% of that $8.00 ends up going to somebody's salary, whether they work at the CD pressing plant or they're the engineer behind the board or they're the graphic artist that did the artwork. When you phrase it in the form "sales go to the record labels" it may give the impression of going into some vault somewhere. The distribution, sales and marketing of hard goods may be inefficient, but inefficiency != evil.

"The vast majority of artistes vehemently support electronic means of music distribution over the CD method."

Interesting, I didn't know somebody'd taken a poll. Do you have a citation for that statistic? Does that count signed as well as unsigned artists? The A&R guys see so many demo CDs -- from more artists than they could possibly sign -- that I just don't see the math working here.

Good call, except... (3, Interesting)

meisenst (104896) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760245)

The court decision inspired panic in the Canadian music industry; industry spokesmen were predicting the collapse of copyright control would cause severe financial hardship for people making their living from music.

If only the people making their living weren't suffering at the hands of labels and record companies/associations already, I might even agree with the people on this side (the CRIA) of the fence.

We all know that artists who don't make enough drama or news to get endorsements, major deals and huge publicity, already have a difficult time making their money from their music alone.

Sharing's legal, distribution ain't... (4, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760246)

The key part of the Canadian ruling was that sharing files is perfectly legal. They didn't say distributing was.

Basically, if you leave a copy machine in a room full of copyrighted books, no copyright violation has been comitted. Now, that copy machine could certainly be used in infriging ways, and it can also be used in a few ways that are okay under fair use. But if the machine just sits there and nobody uses it at all... then there's no way there's any infinging use could have happened.

Translated to the digital world, a server that is offering files up for download can't infringe any copyright until somebody actually accesses the files to make an illegal copy. And this brings up a Catch 22 for the "copyright police"... see, in order to actually prove that there was a download they either have to either intercept a download in progress (good luck doing that...) or they have to initiate a download themselves, but whoops... if the copyright owner tries to download their own work, they can't possibly infringe on themselves!

So, basically, there's a problem in the law that's driving the "copyright police" crazy... short of the copyright pirate confessing, how are they gonna prove that an actual violation took place?

Re:Sharing's legal, distribution ain't... (2, Informative)

mark-t (151149) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760287)

That's not what's happening here...

Remember it isn't the act of obtaining an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work that is copyright infringement, it is the act of making such copies available to other people in the first place (if you didn't make then available to anyone else, then the copying would fall under the jurisdiction of fair use, and you would be fine).

So putting copyrighted files, whether or not someone else actually bothers to download them, is violation of copyright (unless of course permission to distribute in that fashion has been granted, of course) because you are distributing an unauthorized copy of the work.

An analogy might be a bookstore that photocopies a book without authorization, rebinds it, and puts it on the shelf with a price tag on it. Whether or not someone actually buys that book, the store has committed a copyright violation.

Re:Sharing's legal, distribution ain't... (2, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760350)

An analogy might be a bookstore that photocopies a book without authorization, rebinds it, and puts it on the shelf with a price tag on it. Whether or not someone actually buys that book, the store has committed a copyright violation.

Nope. The fact that they're on sale at a store clearly shows an intent to profit... but they still won't have actually hit any civil damages until there's actually been a sale.

You can't charge somebody with murder unless the victim is dead. "Attempted murder" is defined as a different crime that gets committed when somebody demonstrates an intent on committing murder but doesn't quite make it due to ineptiude or intervention. You don't just get to throw "attempted" in front of any other crime to create a new crime. "Attempted copyright violation" is not a crime on the books anywhere, yet.

Re:Sharing's legal, distribution ain't... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760291)

see, in order to actually prove that there was a download they either have to either intercept a download in progress (good luck doing that...)

You have a lot to learn about tcpdump & ethereal, my friend.

Re:Sharing's legal, distribution ain't... (1)

stevens (84346) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760311)

short of the copyright pirate confessing, how are they gonna prove that an actual violation took place?

Telepathy, man. That's why this tin foil hat isn't just stylish, it's also practical.

Canadians: Tell her what you think (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760255)

Americans: Mind your own business.

The Hon Helene Scherrer

Minister

House of Commons
CANADIAN HERITAGE

Wellington Street

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

K1A 0A6

Telephone:
(613) 995-4995
Fax:
(613) 996-8292

Re:Canadians: Tell her what you think (1)

Aggrav8d (683620) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760326)

http://www.pch.gc.ca/pc-ch/min/index_e.cfm is her official homepage, and there is an online comments form. now THAT deserves to be slashdotted. Preferably with links to the reports that CD sales are up despite file trading. If I could have found such a link, I would have posted it here to simplify your (our?) lives.

Heritage Minister's background: (2, Informative)

Viking5150 (97471) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760256)

Her experience/resume doesn't seem to indicate that she might be well versed in the intricacies of the legal system regarding this issue:
Helene Scherrer, Minister of Canadian Heritage [pch.gc.ca]

If you can't win in court (5, Insightful)

Gribflex (177733) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760279)

Buy off a minister to change the laws for you.

Right (0, Redundant)

weekendwarrior1980 (768311) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760286)

Oh goody. Did the RIAA pressure them into it? You know this sucks we Canadiens, it seems, dont even have real power over what we can do.

Just proves that.. (5, Insightful)

dj245 (732906) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760295)

This just goes to prove that no matter where you go, the lobbiests own the polititians. It doesn't matter where you live or who you think you have control over. It doesn't even matter if your megaphone is really really loud. If a lobbiest organization has more money than your faction has voters, the lobbiest always wins. So what can you do? Buy a congressman. I say we all pitch in and buy a Wyoming senator. They're worth 1/100 of the senate, and the going rate on a senator is about $20,000, based on some of the stories that have been in the news lately of kickbacks senators send to companies who gave them really small amounts of money.

Just think, our very own Senator! Cash value 1/100 of senate...

Re:Just proves that.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760313)

Bad idea. Better we all pool our money into a paypal account, (preferably mine) and buy a Monorail! Yes, Monorail! Whats that name again? ... Monorail!...

Hopefully.. (2, Insightful)

dj245 (732906) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760304)

She'll probably name it "The No Child left Beaten to a Bloody Pulp on a Sidewalk Act" and it will get rushed through the parliament.

Or hopefully some smart lawmaker will call it "The Lets All Let the Bloodsucking Record Industry Make Laws For Us Enactment" and it will be pidgeonholed.

Re:Hopefully.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760354)

She'll probably name it "The No Child left Beaten to a Bloody Pulp on a Sidewalk Act" and it will get rushed through the parliament.

Probably not. Canadian laws tend to just have numbers (bill c-60, bill 101, etc.) instead of names (Brady bill, Meaghan's law, etc.).

Canadian Idol winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760315)

First of all...Canadian Idol? hehe.

So the canadian idol winner goes to say....

Canadian Idol winner Ryan Malcolm expressed skepticism, and suggested the Canadian music biz find a way to live with file-sharers. "Whether people download or not, as long as they're listening to music," he said

Easy for him to say. The only people that will be listening to his music in a few months are those that accidently download it.

Slashdot's timekeeping is broken (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760318)

"Posted by michael on Sunday April 04, @02:56AM"

Should be 1:56AM. DST doesn't begin till 2:00AM.
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