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XPde 0.5 - A Linux Desktop for Windows Users

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the sincerest-form-of-flattery dept.

GUI 460

Nissan Dookeran writes "From the website: 'The XPde Team today announced the immediate availability of XPde 0.5.0, a complete rewrite of the XPde desktop environment...XPde aims to recreate the Windows XP desktop environment on Linux in order to allow Windows users to "feel at home" in front of a Linux computer' Full announcement of release here with screenshots here. Might be a good transitional tool for Windows users looking not wanting to give up their eye-candy interface initially. The main page also has a good PDF document regarding legal issues when developing software that emulates Windows functions. A StarOffice version of the document also available."

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secure winXP (4, Funny)

wmacgyver (555987) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760631)

hey, it's the secure WinXP release! (duck for cover)

Re:secure winXP (-1)

users.pl (689022) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760739)

Hey, it's a cheap karma whore! (too bad they don't give out karma for funny anymore)

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE GNAA TROLL ABOVE (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760746)

Ragheads (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760774)

So Spaniards, your socialist government has failed you. The ragheads are still blowing up your people.

Maybe now you'll realize the exterminating this vermin by force is the only alternative.

Re:Ragheads (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760797)

Sorry to point out what a stupid dickhead you are, but spain supported the US in the war on Iraq.

Actually I didn't need to post this because your post already shows your ignorance

ahh, yes (-1, Offtopic)

matt4077 (581118) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760632)

true open source innovation at work

Re:ahh, yes (1)

darien (180561) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760683)

Yep, in emulating the Microsoft look and feel, they're also emulating the Microsoft design methodology... :)

Behold! The AOL user on usenet! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760633)

AOL users strike again!

Date: 03 Apr 2004 14:28:55 GMT
From: chiefthrownsmoke@aol.com (ChiefThrownSmoke)
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.nospam.teenfem.nonude
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: all posters
X-Admin: news@aol.com

i cant download the yenc files just make them reg. jpegs

Cool (4, Funny)

MisterFancypants (615129) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760635)

This is a cool project. Windows is awesome. It is good to finally see Linux users realizing that the Windows UI is the best one there is and adapting to use it.

Re:Cool (1)

matqua (670407) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760644)

Well lets not get carried away. Sure windows is reasonably polished, but a nicely configured Gnome, KDE, IceWM or WindowMaker with a sensible theme is just as good, or usually better. Of course this is great for people who are trying to get windows users to Linux!

Re:Cool (1, Insightful)

eclectro (227083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760682)

It is good to finally see Linux users realizing that the Windows UI is the best one there is and adapting to use it

No, I would not say that. I also think a lot of Mac users might disagree with you.

The thing about windows is that everybody has learned to deal with all of its crazy "idiosyncracies", not that it is any better.

Taking advantage of this will help people realize that there are alternatives to the hegemony of windows, which will make computing more secure, cheaper, and better for everyone.

Re:Cool (0, Flamebait)

faaaz (582035) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760687)

Are you high, or have you just never used MacOS 10?

MOD PARENT UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760695)

Moderate parent +1 funny!

"Windows is awesome" whoo, needed a good laugh!

Wow (1)

SoLO (91992) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760638)

No comments and it's already loading dog slow! Someone mirror this fast!

Morphix LiveCD of XPde (5, Informative)

Gandalfar (599790) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760639)

g1powermac already created a livecd using Morphix [morphix.org] that has xpde5 inside. Just boot it using desktop=xpde5 boot parameter. It will default to 0.4.2 since xpde5 is still lacking some of the features. Sourceforge download [sourceforge.net]

Mod me troll flamebait or whatever but... (0, Flamebait)

Steamhead (714353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760640)

Pretty much all window managers-themes look /horrible/ on linux, this looks nice and might just make it more attractive for people to switch.

Re:Mod me troll flamebait or whatever but... (4, Insightful)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760671)

Pretty much all window managers-themes look /horrible/ on linux, this looks nice and might just make it more attractive for people to switch.

Might encourage them to try it but it also makes them less likely to stick with it when they find thing don't work quite right. A different appearance helps people with the learning experience because they have visual cues that things ARE different. Mimicking XP's appearance will mean they're constantly caught off guard by small differences, and they'll find that harder to cope with than bigger differences would have been.

Re:Mod me troll flamebait or whatever but... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760686)

Mimicking XP's appearance will mean they're constantly caught off guard by small differences, and they'll find that harder to cope with than bigger differences would have been.

I'm an WinXP user and a frequent user of Cygwin. I've tried Linux (Slackware at that!) and didn't have much trouble. As long as I had access to a bash shell and the man pages, everything went fine. Of course, I'm not a typical user but Cygwin helps tremendously in the Linux familiarity arena.

Re:Mod me troll flamebait or whatever but... (-1, Troll)

unknown_host (757538) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760702)

d00d, you should see my linux machine running GNOME with a cool picture of Laetitia Casta staring at you...no icons no nothing hiding anything...how can there be anything more attractive...

I had a life before I got karma

Quite a good work but.. (2, Insightful)

Fr4ncis (763671) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760641)

It's easy to use and very fast! (I tried 0.4) but it lacked essential DE stuff. If they keep up the good work and more developers join the team, that could become a good xp looking-like DE.

Something seems wrong here (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760642)

Shouldn't that be a Windows desktop for Linux users?

Re:Something seems wrong here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760667)

Yup. Maybe 'A Windows XP Desktop for Linux' would have been less ambiguous.

new screenshot (1)

phy_si_kal (729421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760643)

having an ugly old gimp in their only newest screenshot is probably not the nicest way to show your job, guys ! in another story, gimp 2.0 released

Here's an idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760646)

How about an open source alternative to explorer for windows...maybe someone can fully port KDE/Gnome?

Re:Here's an idea (0)

ScottKin (34718) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760692)

There are dozens of KGE/Gnome knock-offs for Explorer Shell Replacements like LiteStep & Enhancers like DesktopX.

You can find themes for both LiteStep and DesktopX at DeviantArt [deviantart.com] and WinCustomize [wincustomize.com] .

For an example of how the depth of customization you can get for Shell Enhancers, check out my DesktopX screenshot [adelphia.net] --ScottKin

Re:Here's an idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760708)

In addition to what the sibling posted above, there's also GeoShell [geoshell.com]

Re:Here's an idea (2, Troll)

jasonditz (597385) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760723)

If you really want to you can run KDE on Cygwin.

The purpose of actually swapping out the UI in Windows and running GNU/X/etc. over the kernel frankly escapes me. The Win32 kernel isn't particularly sturdy and doesn't itself really offer any benefits over, say, the Linux or BSD kernel.

Re:Here's an idea (2, Interesting)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760744)

ReactOS already has their explorer replacement running natively on ReactOS and WinXP.

KDE and GNOME wouldn't be that hard. It would really only involve usage of native ports of their respective toolkits (Qt Win32 non commercial edition and GTK+2)

Keep in mind there are other alternatives like LiteStep etc.

I'm not convinced by that PDF (4, Insightful)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760647)

if MS can take down "Lindows", they can definitely take down "XPde Professional".

some of the icons are so similar that it looks like they've changed maybe one or two pixels at most.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (1)

TummyX (84871) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760656)

I thought the lindows thing was a trademark issue. Lawsuits based on "look and feel" have been less successful. If MS sue, they can always change the icons.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (3, Insightful)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760663)

yes but when the official project purpose IS to copy the "look and feel", then MS doesn't have to prove their intent, which is the hardest part.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760666)

Remember the Microsoft vs. Apple lawsuit, that Microsoft won. It basically means that ripping off your competitor's "look and feel" is OK. Microsoft set the legal precident precident for this; if they have it invalidated, Apple will no doubt want to revisit its case.

The issue with Lindows is the similarity to a trademarked name (though I agree that trademarking a common word is insane).

If Microsoft can convince a judge that it owns the letters 'X' and 'P' (as opposed to the trademark 'Windows XP'), then the project will have something to worry about.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (1)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760740)

Then wouldn't MS need to turn around and sue AMD for the Athlon XP?

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (5, Funny)

eliza_effect (715148) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760789)

The Athlon XP neither looks, nor feels like Windows XP.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760792)

No, because AMD is MS's buttboy, and is on record supporting their operating system monopoly

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760691)

if MS can take down "Lindows", they can definitely take down "XPde Professional".

Fuck, even Slashdot can take down whatever the hell this is - the server's toasted already.

Re:I'm not convinced by that PDF (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760718)

Uhh, those icons are from the crystal icon set that comes with a lot of linux distros. They may look similar to the XP/2k icons but they're certainly not direct copies of the Windows icons.

Yawn (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760650)

Cue the blue screen of death jokes. When will you Loonix tards realize that Windows XP is the greatest OS ever invented? What do you Linux assholes have over it? What? Tux Racer? Emacs? LOL, buy a clue, cum drops.

Great Idea ... But ... (4, Insightful)

UNIBLAB_PowerPC (443101) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760652)

Isn't this similar to the reason why Apple took Microsoft to court over the similarities between Mac OS and Windows? Or similar to the reason why Apple took some folks to court because they copied the look and feel of their Aqua GUI?

I don't mean to piss in anyone's Corn Flakes, but damn ... look at a screenshot [xpde.com] ... Start button is named Start, My Desktop is My Desktop, etc. Watch the headlines here in a week to a month for the cease-and-desist letter from MS to the XPde folks. Makes me glad I have a friend going through law school ... heh.

Re:Great Idea ... But ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760657)

Makes me glad I have a friend going through law school

Just what we need. More trial lawyers.

Re:Great Idea ... But ... (1)

Prof.Phreak (584152) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760690)

I didn't know Microsoft owns the words "Start", "My" or "Desktop".

Re:Great Idea ... But ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760722)

O'Toole's Commentary: "Murphy was an optimist." (fraserlandia [lmi.net] )

Re:Great Idea ... But ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760754)

You needed a friend in law school to tell you that?

Re:Great Idea ... But ... (3, Interesting)

eclectro (227083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760759)

Isn't this similar to the reason why Apple took Microsoft to court over the similarities between Mac OS and Windows?

Yes, and they lost. So, if Microsft copied Apple (and don't forget Apple copied Xerox), what is wrong if somebody copies Microsoft?

The only thing Apple gained from the expensive lawsuit with Microsoft is a copyright on the trashcan. So that is the reason you see a different icon for "trash" on all of the different operating systems there are.

The only caveat is that the Apple vs. Microsoft was fought in the era without software patents. If it had been (like today), Apple most likely would have won.

Microsoft does have a lot of money that they can cause a lot of pain for someone they don't like. They also have software patents on many things that people would not think of getting a patent for.

But if Microsoft were to put the squeeze on somebody for making a windows look-a-like, there might be attorneys that would take the case on antitrust grounds.

slashdotted (0)

Naksu (689429) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760653)

Slashdotted already? aargh now i know which server they run windows xp for reference with

legal issue? (2, Insightful)

cloudless.net (629916) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760654)

Is there any legal issue with this? As I remember Apple always threatens those who reproduce the Mac OS user interface. Would Microsoft do the same?

Re:legal issue? (1)

MobyTurbo (537363) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760784)

Is there any legal issue with this? As I remember Apple always threatens those who reproduce the Mac OS user interface. Would Microsoft do the same?
My guess is that Microsoft would want to wait until this is some sort of threat. Wouldn't it generate a lot of bad publicity if they sued Linux for immitating them? A suit would be *good* publicity for Linux, after all, since any publicity is good publicity. (And Linux could always use more of that.)

My experience (4, Interesting)

Dunkelzahn (106055) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760655)

I tried this out one night when I was planning out a desktop for a person I knew who wanted to try out Linux. On a visual level, it was very well put together, and one could forget they were in Linux until one tried out the control panel, or wanted to get any work done. Menus and things still had to be assembled manually also, which didn't mean too much to me, as it was still 0.31 at the time. It wasn't ready for my friend's system, and I ended up putting Gnome 2.2 on there which they were more than happy with. I'd say this project definitely has a future, from what I see their mock-up of the Win2K desktop was pretty right on target, behaviors and all. The lack of some key features are what kept it from being ready, but I imagine much of it will be dependent on the distribution, placing icons in the start menu, etc when one installs a .deb, .rpm, or runs an emerge.

My experience-Faithfully "yours". (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760712)

Hmmm...were's the registration dialog? It's not good until it has that.

Eye Candy? (5, Insightful)

Biotech9 (704202) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760658)

If XP has eye candy then I'm superman. The first thing I do on any install is take away that snot green interface and replace it with the classic interface.

Re:Eye Candy? (1)

Dunkelzahn (106055) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760665)

And the default for xpde is actually the classic Win2K style.

Re:Eye Candy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760672)

Two things I do with an XP install:
  1. Set title bars to 21 pixels.

  2. Replace Explorer shell with cmd.exe.

Re:Eye Candy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760734)

Here's two steps better:

1. format c: /q

2. insert Linux install disk and hit reset.

(Yes, this is flamebait, but it's not like anyone takes this stuff seriously anyway...)

Migration? (5, Interesting)

landrocker (560567) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760661)

I think that one of the areas that linux can really beat windows given enough effort is with it's desktop environments.

Given this, wouldn't it be better for people migrating from windows to become acustomed to the more powerful desktop environment of linux, rather than one which sacrifices some good features for the sake of making windows users feel more at home?

Also, if you shroud the differences between windows and linux behind a look-alike gui as soon as something goes wrong, or the user trys to install something the os will likely throw up a very un-windows like error, which will most likely confuse the user, leaving a sour taste about linux in their mouth.

You may claim my $0.02 via Paypal or Direct Credit

Re:Migration? (1)

Dunkelzahn (106055) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760670)

One may wish to try this out for setting up a Linux pc for a beginner, or perhaps in a special kiosk-type situation where Joe Sixpack might sit down to check his email or search the web, say in a library or perhaps a net cafe. This isn't designed for seasoned Linux users.

Re:Migration? (1)

Amiga Lover (708890) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760761)

Given this, wouldn't it be better for people migrating from windows to become acustomed to the more powerful desktop environment of linux, rather than one which sacrifices some good features for the sake of making windows users feel more at home?

It would, but unfortunately many of the other DEs replicate the mistakes Apple and MS make with their UIs. I think the whole concept of a UI should be redesigned from scratch to move as far away from the failings of the two giants in the field and making a more Amiga style UI, only keeping the absolutely minimum that is required for a UI to work.

When people begin to see the superiority of a gui in linux on its own terms then they'll be converted for life, and that'll make us all the stronger.

Re:Migration? (1)

ElaborateCalculator (744855) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760765)

the os will likely throw up a very un-windows like error, which will most likely confuse the user


You mean the XP error messages aren't confusing? It's different from every previous version of Windows I've seen then....

Hang on a second... Initially? (3, Insightful)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760662)

Might be a good transitional tool for Windows users looking not wanting to give up their eye-candy interface initially.
Initially? Why initially? What about the millions of computer users out there that don't EVER want to give up their "eye-candy interface" ?

Man, the more I watch the Linux world from the outside, the less i'm beginning to believe in "the revolution". It would be funny if it wasn't crushingly dissapointing - Two sides that "just don't get it".

*Sigh*

Re:Hang on a second... Initially? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760716)

you're assuming that xp eyecandy is the ultimate eycandy.

there's lots of useless eycandy for nix, as there is for windows as well.

(just helped install litestep + a theme of their choosing to both the guys I share the kitchen with, as they had gotten fed up with the standard win xp look)

Re:Hang on a second... Initially? (0)

unbiasedbystander (660703) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760755)

he's right though, we truly are two different worlds. I hate M$, I hate their business and their strategies, but I'm not about to give up XP. I'm sorry, linux is a wonderful idea, but so far its just an idea. Excellent progress has been made, but I think both sides can admit it still has a long way to go from the desktop. I look forward to a day when linux devolopers are no longer trying to "catch up" with the simplicity and easy of Windows; a day when they've completely FORGOTTEN about it because linux itself has become so easy. See, its counter-productive to say, "switch to linux, oh, and here is an interface that will make it exactally like what you're used to". No, the linux community needs to create its own standards and ween the public from Windows. Godspeed, you brilliant devolopers.

non x86? (3, Informative)

Njovich (553857) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760674)

I liked the last version much, even though it was far from complete. But IIRC it was based on Kylix, and there was no good way to run it on any other architecture than x86.

So can I run this completely rewritten version on our Sun boxes?

Mirrors (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760677)

Mirrors

xpde.qadram.com
xpde.holobit.net
xpde.tech-critic.com
xpde.abenks.com
xpde.debian.co.nz
toxic-systems.de/xpde
xpde.linuxring.hu
xpde.gaesi.org
xpde.jt-webservice.de

Re:Mirrors - Don't mod this up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760758)

I haven't been able to find a working mirror in this list... (And I tried about four of them)

Re:Mirrors (outdated ones) (1)

Compunerd (107084) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760794)

and the others don't work :(
---

Good...bad...no - good! (5, Insightful)

broothal (186066) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760678)

I have mixed feelings about this. At first I thought "if linux is better than windows, why try to be windows". But then I realised, that this is exactly what I'd show people whom I wanted to convert to linux. For most people, the GUI is Windows. They don't know about kernel stuff or hardware compatibility issues (if it works). If they saw this, with a properly wordes sales pitch "free, no viruses, cool geek factor" etc, I think a "sale" would be easier.

I do have concerns about the legal side of the project, but other posters has already made good comments about that.

1 word should some up everyone's feelings (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760679)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

It's the wrong product (4, Interesting)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760685)

Very few people have made a conscious choice for Windows and its UI, and few people will really base their future decisions on this.

95% of the angst most people feel from using Windows comes from one single thing: security. I find it remarkably easy to switch people to a distro like Xandros by telling them: it is safe and will protect your photos and documents from viruses, trojans, and worms.

All that is needed is a reasonable level of compatibility so that people can continue to make their documents & spreadsheets, download their photos from their digital cameras, and email their friends.

Not a single person ever says: "but it looks nothing like Windows!" - the only counter objection is that "certain things do not work".

Emulating XP safely may be an intellectual challenge but it is not part of the Linux sales argument. Distributions like Xandros - which install easily, and handle smoothly - are.

You got it the wrong way around, dumbass. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760714)

Very few people have made a conscious choice for Linux and its usability, and the majority will base their future decisions on this.

95% of the angst most people feel from using Linux comes from one single thing: usability. I find it remarkably easy to switch people to Windows by telling them: it is easy to install and use. You will never have to touch a command line.

Nothing is needed - it already has a reasonable level of usability and people find they can make their documents & spreadsheets, download their photos from their digital cameras, and email their friends without help.

Not a single person ever says: "but it's not as difficult to use as Linux!" - the only counter objection is that "everything works".

Emulating the Linux nightmare is not part of a sane Windows experience. Stand-alone distributions like XP - which install easily, and handle smoothly - are.

Re:You got it the wrong way around, dumbass. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760730)

Uhm, I'm using Linux (Xandros too) and...

- It was incredibly easy to install, much easier than Windows
- It detected all my hardware with no special drivers to install, again much nicer than Windows
- It came with lots of free software like OpenOffice and Mozilla, I did not need to buy anything else
- It just works - really, really well
- There is no "nightmare", I don't know where you get this from... it never crashes, I don't get viruses, I don't get trojans from the web, I don't have to worry about connecting to the Internet, and the few patches I have to install are simple and small
- It's as usable as Windows in most areas and more so in some areas
- There are still a few areas for improvement but they are few, and are mainly to do with getting better applications

Your understanding of Linux is out of date.

But I suspect you are a Microsoft astroturfer.

It is back to useability again (1)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760762)

In a lot of cases, what you say is true. Then you get stories like these [daringfireball.net] two [slashdot.org] .

I have not had that particular cups problem, but quite a few linux UIs are really pretty arcane. Then again, I was trying to configure XP's networking for a friend last week and did not manage to get communication with the client going.
He then tried reconfiguring his client himself and ended up being locked out of his system altogether. Neither XP nor linux has a monopoly on problems.

You Microtards crack me up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760780)

This is the typical crap you get all the time from self-described "power users" that really think they know what's going on because they're an expert in some version of Windows. They have no background in other operating systems, other than attempting to install them and failing miserably.

The funny thing is, you can take a total n00b, and after an hour or two of familiarizing themselves with the new OS they're doing fine. No problems that they wouldn't run into using XP--in fact, less problems in the long run.

I've helped several non-technical people install Linux and they'll typically have everything set up and running in less than a half hour. On the other hand I've had a couple MSCE's ask me for help installing the same distro on the same hardware and they're totally frustrated and can't figure what's going on.

These are the people that are always bitching about how hard Linux to use--the people that are convinced that they are uber-hackers but really know nothing but the Windows way to do things and expect everything to work like Windows. Everyone else does just fine.

Re:It's the wrong product (1)

selderrr (523988) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760736)

I don't agree. You are talking about 95% of 5% of the possible switchers. the other 95% of possible switchers will occasionaly ponder 'hum, maybe I should give this linux thing a try', and then bail out when they can't find the start menu->control panel->display properties. Or start->programs->accesoires->calculator.

I know quite a lot of users that I would like to convince switching to linux, but I won't bother because I know they will give up frustrated becaus ethey don't feel at home and don't have the time/will to learn.

XPde could be the stepping stone for a lot of users. I really think that this could be a milestone for linux !

It's the wrong product-Darwin would be proud. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760771)

"I know quite a lot of users that I would like to convince switching to linux, but I won't bother because I know they will give up frustrated becaus ethey don't feel at home and don't have the time/will to learn."

And this is bad how? If we were in caveman times, this whole "I don't wanna change" thing would mean extinction. But no we've gotten complacent (and fat, physically and mentally). Quite frankly lets hear it for one class (let's call them the survivors) moving to a non-MS OS, and another class (let's call them "extinct"), sticking with the status quo, and pray that no computing meteor strikes.

This eye candy is not what will make linux popular (3, Informative)

iceco2 (703132) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760689)

In my expirience with advocating GNU/linux there is enough Linux hype going around to convince some-one to take a look, and the KDE/Gnome desktops are in themselves easy on the eyes. The problem is to convinvce someone to work at learning the new system.
GNU/Linux is diffrent then windows! I hope it will always remain so, but when talking about user friendlyness the problem isn't with switching windows or what your icons look like, it is more about setting up programs.
In the GNU/Linux world people still open a text console on a every day basis, Somw of us find it the more convinient way of managing the system.
I have several times tried using some automatic configuration tool(usually by Mandrake) and quickly found myself opening emacs in a split window with a man page and a config file.

In many cases the problem is with the GNU/Linux gurus not being able to help with GUI tools. On several ocasions my brother came to me with linux questions how do I do this or that and I knew my way of doing it(Typing in a console window) but I knew very little of which GUI tool will do the job and how.

These are the major issues in GNU/Linux UI

Me

Re:This eye candy is not what will make linux popu (1)

Joe Tie. (567096) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760783)

Have you ever mentioned this to someone involved with Mandrake? Idealy it seems like this is one of the main things they'd be interested in hearing about, given their focus on trying to remove the need for command line use if the user dosn't want it. Though I recognise that the ideal isn't always reality, and companies don't always behave in the most logical manner.

Wohoo! choice! (4, Insightful)

Alkonaut (604183) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760693)

What desktop linux needs is ONE desktop to replace them all. That is; one set of widgets, one way of doing everything, and one interface for developing gui apps for linux. This kind of dictatorship works dandy at the core level of linux, and needs to be extended to include the GUI, or the "linux desktop" will remain a flamewar of competing technologies, each trying to copy what the "top-down" managed software is doing.

As long as there is choice, there will be no breakthrough. One more choice won't help either.

Sure, starting in various ends will perhaps give a Darwinian process of development, but now with a plethora of applications developed on the different desktops, incompatible with eachother, there will be no survival of the fittest. All the desktop technologies seem doomed to live side by side forever. sigh.

So what do you want? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760775)

How will there ever _not_ be choice? What sort of "dictatorship" do you envision? I assume you are mostly talking about KDE and GNOME. I can perhaps imagine a consensus by Novell, Red Hat, IBM, etc that they will all use the same desktop, which might accomplish what you want, but it doesn't mean the other project will go away.

Re:Wohoo! choice! (2, Insightful)

no longer myself (741142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760788)

It's idyllic, but that's really not that realistic...

When I started using Mandrake, I thought the clean polish of the Keramic and Galaxy themes were just fantastic. I played around with all the different themes and widgits I could find, but as time went on, I just wanted that good ol' Redmond look'n'feel. Sad to say it, but my Linux box looks and acts pretty much like a Windows 98 machine.

If someone were to come along and make me use a "different" desktop because that's what everyone else has decided we'd use, then I'd probably start looking for a utility to get back to the way *I* want it to look.

Some think it's ugly... I think it's comfortable. Let the users keep their choices, and if you want your box to look like XP, then more power to you.

You just can't tell people they have no choice. They will ignore you and choose another person to which they will listen.

I like it (3, Insightful)

gargan (4764) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760699)

seems even at 6:30 am the site is getting slashdotted but, for one, i like it.

i know microsoft is the devil and all that, but i've grown accustomed to the XP interface at work. i use SuSE linux at home, and i like it. however, at work i use xp and find its interface better in many ways.

if only we could integrate all the hardware settings into the main gui like xp does for display settings and such, then linux would really take off with a window manager like this.

there's also a lot to say for copying OS X, or developing our own little gui interface altogether, but that's another post...

Good for Linux (1)

Ronan_The_Barbarian (766623) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760751)

Seriously i think it is good linux to look like Windows XP. XP is the most used interface in the world and if any OS looks like it, that OS is going give XP a run for its money. I do hope Redhat and Novell standardize on this stuff.

In other news... (-1, Offtopic)

JoeBaldwin (727345) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760705)

GNOME 2.6 was released the other day, for real. See here [gnome.org] . There's your choice people...the story I submitted about this (GNOME) was rejected for some reason, so meh :)

Uh-oh! (2, Funny)

bj8rn (583532) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760710)

Does this mean that for "Windows users", Tux will be replaced with Tinky-Winky [amazon.com] ?

Mirror of the screenshot (3, Informative)

staili (200478) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760711)

I mirrored the screenshot:
Screenshot [phnet.fi]

A shot of the 0.5.0 release, the rest of shots are from the previous release.

mods on crack? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760781)

What's so funny, anyway?

Re:mods on crack? (2, Funny)

BillsPetMonkey (654200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760800)

Sorry, that was me. I scrolled down using the middle button, which also moves the dropdown selection.

Just to prove I'm not on crack, I'm posting this to undo the moderation.

This could help a lot of people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760713)

A familiar interface (for Windows users upgrading to Linux) is a good idea. I constantly see people bashing the desktops that emulate Windows rather than using an innovative new interface. I see it as a good transitional thing.

Once a users are more familiar with the underlying OS I think most would switch to one of the more powerful desktops available. The overly-simplistic Windows interface definate becomes a hinderance after a while unless you are sticking to fairly basic usage.

The problem is that your typical microtard needs something familiar to navigate with playskool colors and buttons and an ultra-simple start menu.

Come on people, be realistic (1)

dupper (470576) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760715)

The main page also has a good PDF document regarding legal issues when developing software that emulates Windows functions.

Just because something's utterly legal doesn't mean a megacorp isn't going to sue you into the stone age for potentially hurting their bottom line.

This is terrible! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760717)

Only mindless Windows users are going to want to use this distro! Oh, wait...

Cut & Paste Mirror List (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760724)

xpde.qadram.com [qadram.com]
xpde.holobit.net [holobit.net]
xpde.tech-critic.com [tech-critic.com]
xpde.abenks.com [abenks.com]
xpde.debian.co.nz [debian.co.nz]
toxic-systems.de/xpde [toxic-systems.de]
xpde.linuxring.hu [linuxring.hu]
xpde.gaesi.org [gaesi.org]
xpde.jt-webservice.de [jt-webservice.de]
Jonah Hex [slashdot.org]
hexagon.tk [hexagon.tk]

More Xpde (1, Informative)

ogfomk (677034) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760735)

Xpde.qudram.com [qadram.com]

NO! (1)

Shiner_Man_NJ (735794) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760737)

I spent years getting away from Windows and its interface has made its way to Linux. What a horrible idea!

NO!-FrankenOS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760786)

Just wait till MONO is mature. Makes you want to run to either the BSD's, HURD, or even AmigaOS. At least no one is trying to make a WinClone out of any of those. Who knew that saving Windows users from themselves would have such a high price? World Domination indeed.

But... (1)

MrRuslan (767128) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760741)

Does it run Linux?....Wait a minute...XP? Linux XP??? *Runs away*

Microsoft (1)

MrRuslan (767128) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760748)

Should use this DE when they come out with there own Debian based distro and name it lindows XP....

Does Linux "just fucking work" yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760749)

That it works is the main reason that I refuse to dump Windows. I could not care less about the look - so long as it feels good and is not a pain in the ass to set up.

I have a hardware firewall. Ports are closed, I have email filters, I use Mozilla, I don't run strange applications, I run a virus scanner, I run a spyware scanner. I run Windows Update once a week. I have no problems using and working with Windows.

Windows has an ultra-high level of performance. It supports all my hardware correctly and driver updates are very easy to install. Screen refreshes for applications are blisteringly fast. Hardware accelerated games simply work. Suspend and hybernation just work. My UPS desktop power meter just works. My MP3 player just works. iTunes just works. Commercial and free development environments just work. I last saw a bluescreen crash about 18 months ago due to hardware failure (my network card died).

The last time I tried Linux (a mere few months ago) - it didn't fucking work. I tried one of those bootable CD thingies (Knoppix) - and it kept crashing after a few minutes and resetting the machine. I gave up, threw the disk in the trash - and went back to work on Windows.

Linux needs to work on the following:

* Unify the desktop - one API, one coding standard. I'm not going to bother otherwise. GUI libraries go in and out of fashion. Windows API knowledge from Windows 3.1 is still applicable with XP - it was well worth learning.
* Easy installation.
* Hardware support that JUST WORKS. I don't care if I have to reboot - if I have to read a text file or use a command line - it is TOO COMPLICATED.
* System updates that JUST WORK when vulnerabilities are discovered. I want to click one button and have it do everything else. I don't care if I have to leave the machine on overnight, I don't care what the problem is, just fix it.
* High performance drivers. Going from Windows to Linux shouldn't feel like I've downgraded my computer.
* Keyboard shortcuts that work - shared desktop clipboard that is as easy to use as Windows. And no stupid mouse "I can never fucking remember which button combination to press" shortcut to copy & paste, please. Select text. Right click, choose "copy". Click to place cursor. Right click, select "paste". Simple.

And probably a bunch more stuff that I can't think of right now.

Re:Does Linux "just fucking work" yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760798)

I don't mean to quibble with your fine post, but first you say:
Windows API knowledge from Windows 3.1 is still applicable with XP - it was well worth learning.
And then later:
* Hardware support that JUST WORKS. I don't care if I have to reboot - if I have to read a text file or use a command line - it is TOO COMPLICATED.
I concede that you say this in regards to hardware configuration. But if you're a developer, I certainly hope you know how to use a command line. If you don't, you're at a distinct disadvantage. Sure you could be GUI jockey when coding, but the developers that I've seen who work extensively with the command line know their stuff pretty damn well.

It's all well and good... (0)

m1chael (636773) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760764)

to be the same as Windows. But why would people switch when it's exactly the same? You my say, the price son, tell them the price son! But as we all know, those jeans you are wearing cost quite a pretty penny.

Microsoft has already filed a lawsuit against them (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8760772)

Why Americans hate Europeans

There are many reasons why Americans increasingly despise and distrust Europeans. First, the continued support of terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah by the french and others. The continual "trying" of communism. May Day is almost an official EU holiday. The millions of europeans who march on May Day is just another example of the leftist brainwashing that perpetuates Europe. Europe is the origin of so much suffering in the past century that for the most part people around the world look at the europeans with a wary eye. Third worlders can't trust europeans because of the barbaric colonizations of the third world by europe. Europeans have a serious issue with jealousy of Americans. Because of the fascist, socialistic policies of many Europeans countries, the standard of living of these people is much lower than Americans, so europeans take out their frustrations on America. The continued acceptance of the nanny state philosophy continues to degrade Europe until eventually it will become 3rd world. Germany has so many structural problems and the inability to face them that they are facing serious economic issues well in the latter half of this century. France continues to be a quasi-marxist state where it's next to impossible to conduct business and do research. Look at all the french scientists that are packing their bags for greener pastures. Spain has been scared into electing proto-marxists. The United Kingdom now has realized 1984 with cameras on every street(all in the name of safety). The reason that John Kerry did a violent reversal of his bragging of foreign endorsements is because if he would ever accept an endorsement of someone like Chirac it would be the deathnail of his candiacy. These are the reasons that europeans are despised by the vast majority of Americans.

smart thinking. (1)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760776)

maybe once there is a 100% -completely- Microsoft-tracking GUI around, maybe there won't need to be so many of them for Linux, and some truly innovative GUI advances can be made ...

Linux desktop (0)

pedicabo (753738) | more than 10 years ago | (#8760785)

Who was it said. "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? Does it have PnP and the same builtin drivers? I might try this one. No...wait! I've got the real thing.
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