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Pioneer Electron Beam DVD

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the around-the-corner dept.

Data Storage 302

wordboy writes "Pioneer Electronics just announced that they will introduce an electron-beam recorder for next-generation optical data storage. The electron beam is much finer than that of a typical laser so they are able to achieve densities of 50GB or more with a standard 12cm disc. But can it cook my TV dinner, too?"

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302 comments

Thing is... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765610)

This technology is still about 10 years out there (at the very least). Electron beams have low tolerance to vibration, and are better for stationary media, at this point. But the same thing was said about laser in the 70's, so likely the media will be over built to support error correction, like laser disks were.

Vibration, however, isn't the biggest hurdle to over come. Since it's likely the media will not be stored in a vacuum, this system will have to compensate for dust and other particles in a much more robust way than the current laser based systems.

Remember IO Meg's Jazz Drive? It sucked because the drive wasn't in a vaccume. That wasn't even laser based, it was magnetic media. Imagine how much of a problem it will be with subatomic particles.

But the truly biggest hurdle will be the price. The media will likely be based on platinum, and I don't see how writable media will be possible any time soon.

Re:Thing is... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765659)

Iomega

Re:Thing is... (1)

artlu (265391) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765704)

I think you're right about this type of technology. I am hoping we see some sort of new storage media within the next 10 years and not the same type of laser onto Cd type of recording that we are all used to. Hopefully, 10 years from now ill be able to keep everything I could ever want on my cell phone and just plug that into a station to do work.

Re:Thing is... (4, Insightful)

jmv (93421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765714)

Imagine how much of a problem it will be with subatomic particles.

We're nowhere near subatomic here. In order to fit 50 GB on a disk, the bits will probably be in the hundreds of nanometers large. That's still much larger than atoms.

Re:Thing is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765832)

Then electrons in the electron beam are subatomic particles

Re:Thing is... (1)

mishac (75996) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765872)

so are the photons in a laser beam.

Behold, my anus is awaiting ejaculation (-1)

(TK)Dessimat0r (668222) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765719)

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Re:Thing is... (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765728)

But the truly biggest hurdle will be the price. The media will likely be based on platinum, and I don't see how writable media will be possible any time soon.

If you ask me, I think solid state storage would become commonplace before this would. One thing that comes to mind, is those little disks in the Matrix that Tank used to upload kung-fu to Neos brain :)

Thing is...The E-Club. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765745)

Maybe they will make piracy harder? How many pirates can afford an electron-beam writer?

Re:Thing is... (4, Informative)

Mostly a lurker (634878) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765801)

This technology is still about 10 years out there (at the very least).

The announcement indicates that they are planning to start commercial shipments almost immediately. Pioneer has been working on this stuff for over 10 years already. You are probably right that this will initially be pretty expensive. Nevertheless, this is an important announcement, indicating that real progress on a key technology has been made.

As an aside, the Iomega Jaz drive was initially a good product. There were two main problems: they cut corners on both the drive and the media in later revisions; and they never owned up to the "clicking" problem, thus causing many people to unnecessarily lose data.

Re:Thing is... (1)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765914)

Wow, did you make up most of that?

The media has to be based on platinum? According to who?

Dust has never a problem with CDs, I don't see how increasing data densities will change this.

CD's have lots of vibration, that's why there is active filtering mechanisms that componsate to move the laser around. The same thing could be done with the electronc beam within a few wavelengths of light or less.

I don't remember any of IOmega's products ever being very reliable, it's not fair to compare new CD technologies to them.

One use for 50GB (1)

va3atc (715659) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765611)

Since DVDs of TV shows by seasons is getting very popular these could store what a box set of say ~5DVDs on just one of these gems

Kick back and watch 6 hours of Dilbert without the need of a DVD changer

Re:One use for 50GB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765643)

So you're saying it's even easier to waste hours of my life now? Bless this technology.

Re:One use for 50GB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765838)

No shit. Look at technological advancements nowadays. They give you more, and quicker entertainment! How banal.

Re:One use for 50GB (3, Funny)

hardcoredreamer (551324) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765683)

and then you lose it kids scratch it and still years away from legal backup copies..

Re:One use for 50GB (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765769)

Kick back and watch 6 hours of Dilbert without the need of a DVD changer

Maybe smaller capacity discs are a Good Thing(tm).

Doctor Octopus (5, Funny)

dolo666 (195584) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765612)

I must steal this Electron Beam Device you speak of, so that I may destroy Spiderman forever!!!

Re:Doctor Octopus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765692)

I must make joke on this slashdot you speak of, so that I may become the Whore of Karma forever!!!

Re:Doctor Octopus (1)

dolo666 (195584) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765767)

Me and my karma have been only Positive, Good, Excellent, and back to Positive lately; too many posts today I guess... hehe. :-)

First post (1, Funny)

britneys 9th husband (741556) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765617)

But can it cook my TV dinner, too?"

That's microwaves you're thinking of, Michael.

Re:First post (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765682)

Of course the parent will be bitchslapped Troll, but seriously, was that meant to be funny?

What does heating your TV dinner have to do with this? How about bitchslapping yourself Offtopic Michael. And if you want to be funny, pick up a joke book.

Note Michael, this post is NOT Offtopic as it is referring to your writeup. That distinction may be hard for a man of your limited intellect to grasp, but give it a go.

Sounds good to me (1)

supraxnet (567080) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765619)

2) Large, high-density recording capacity of 50GB or more on one side of a 12 cm disc.

This may be the answer as opposed to other [slashdot.org] methods of optical storage that have been floating around. With the accuracy of an election beam, it is no doubt that capacities would grow beyond the initial 50gigs.

Re:Sounds good to me (4, Insightful)

great throwdini (118430) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765648)

his may be the answer as opposed to other methods of optical storage that have been floating around.

Actually, this announcement directly relates to the manufacture of master discs for such "other" methods (specifically, Blu-ray). This press release is not announcing another new format in the least (for now), just a new tool for use in the mastering process.

SEM? (4, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765620)

I wonder if this technology could be used to create inexpensive scanning electron beam microscopes? (As seen in Blade Runner).

Re:SEM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765674)

maybe, but can it ... err.. boot linux?

Re:SEM? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765679)

Go to auctions of industrial supplies and those held by universities. One of the ledgends of my engineering department in college was of a guy who bought an SEM and set it up in his living room for $250. Now when the element went out he probably would be out about 4 grand or so, but still. It's pretty cool.

In really SEM's aren't *that* fancy, if everyone decided that they were the next must have thing, I can't imagine they'd cost much more than a plasma HDTV. Ultrasound machines are the same way. They're like 95+% margin. I wonder what they cost in India, certainly not what they cost in the US.

Re:SEM? (1)

be-fan (61476) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765715)

I dunno about electron-beam microscopes, but you can make your own scanning-tunnling microscopes at home. Not great quality, but its doable. I knew somebody in high-school who did it as a senior-year project. He used a thin wire (apparently, cutting it with a dull scissor gets pretty close to a few-atoms-thick point) and some piezo buzzers from radio-shack for actuators. If you had better piezo actuators, you could probably get a lot better quality.

wow (0, Redundant)

AnonymousCowheart (646429) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765626)

"Large, high-density recording capacity of 50GB or more on one side of a 12 cm disc."
Wow-thats awesome for a single side of a disk. Though I wish removable disks could reach the capacity of hard disks, would be nice to use something like norton ghost or similar, and put everything on ONE disk, and store it somewhere.

Re:wow (1)

big daddy kane (731748) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765741)

yes but asuming this is released in ten or so years, hard drives will be considerably larger than they are now meaning that ghosting a drive to a single one of these babies probably wouldnt be possible.

You worthless faggot, I cum on your posting (-1)

(TK)Dessimat0r (668222) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765742)

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It still (3, Insightful)

The Ancients (626689) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765627)

consists of moving parts :(

Is it just me, or is the wait for solid state storage a long one?

..k

Re:It still (1)

DeionXxX (261398) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765641)

I think price will always be a hurdle for solid state storage. Well that and memory chips etc.. are very expensive to create while optical media is very very cheap...

--D3X

Re:It still (1)

The Ancients (626689) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765670)

Indeed.

As fast as my computer gets, as broad as my internet connection becomes, it seems I still spend too much time sitting here listening to the sound of spinning discs.

The price of storage has dropped though, as the 1GB RAM chips I bought recently were cheaper than the 32MB chips I bought 5 years or so ago (I can't remember the exact year). I guess I will continue to bide my time.

..k

Re:It still (1)

andy55 (743992) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765699)

I think price will always be a hurdle for solid state storage.

I think you're missing his point. The fact that solid state is *still* not low priced is what the grandparent was commenting as suprising.

Re:It still (1)

ziggy_zero (462010) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765791)

The real problem is that you can only write/rewrite on solid state memory a certain number of times. Until that hurdle is jumped over it can never be used for permanent/semi-permanent storage.

Re:It still (2, Informative)

Jerf (17166) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765731)

What are you talking about? Solid state storage is here, today, now [bestbuy.com] . (If that link stops working, search for "removable flash drives" as a category.)

If you're waiting for solid state to be as capacious as moving parts, you're going to be waiting forever; almost by definition, a moving part device will have more volume available to store data in then a solid-state device. (No matter how large your solid-state device, I can create a DVD-like disk even today that holds more then your solid-state device, for reasonable sizes.)

The largest device capacity I saw in there, a 1.5GB device, is still much, much smaller physically then the 300GB monster hard drives you can buy now. (Even extrapolating the density of the 1.5GB flash device to the hard drive's volume, I think the hard drive still wins, and in cost, it's no contest.)

Stop waiting, start buying. As usual, if you wait until the evolution ends, you'll never buy.

Re:It still (1)

andy55 (743992) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765784)

What are you talking about? Solid state storage is here, today, now [bestbuy.com]. (If that link stops working, search for "removable flash drives" as a category.)

*sigh*... you're missing the point.... the grandparent was referring to *real* solid state storage, not 1-2 gigs. Figure out how much it will cost you (and how many units you'll have to get) in order to get 100 gigs of solid state storage vs. a 100 gig drive. Still ready to go to BestBuy? I didn't think so.

Re:It still (1)

a whoabot (706122) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765899)

But everyone is so obsessed with MORE MORE MORE that in a few years when they have 100GB solid state devices people, just like you, will be saying: "those aren't 'real': they aren't big enough!" Because you'll just HAVE to have the latest programs and highest quality videos et cetera on your computer and 100GB won't be enough for your consumption.

Re:It still (1)

understyled (714291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765763)

consists of moving parts :(
Is it just me, or is the wait for solid state storage a long one?


yah, my feelings towards this type of post could only be summarized by the simpsons:

Moe: Oh, boy! The deep fryer's here. Heh heh, I got it used from the navy. You can flash-fry a buffalo in forty seconds.
Homer: Forty seconds? But I want it now!


in other words, patience ... and if you're really impatient this would be a nice upgrade, as far as i'm concerned.

Re:It still (0, Flamebait)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765930)

you are the whiniest little bitch I have ever read...will you shut up!!! you have ben whining about solid state storage for the last 5 years!!! shut up already!!!...

solid state is not coming ever...we will be using holographic media in the next 15 years which will be a much much higher density than anything solid state will ever give us.

full article (5, Informative)

nuclear305 (674185) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765631)

I found this interesting; so here's the full article just in case

Tokyo, Japan, Apr 2, 2004 - (JCN Newswire) - Pioneer Corporation and its subsidiary, Pioneer FA Corporation, announced today that they have jointly developed a high-precision electron beam recorder (EBR) by utilizing their fine-processing technology and equipment technology, which will make it easier to manufacture master discs for next-generation optical discs such as Blu-ray Discs. Pioneer FA will start selling the new high-precision EBR in early April, 2004.

In the conventional optical-disc mastering process, many disc manufacturers have been using laser beam recorders (LBR), which utilize ultraviolet (UV) lasers or deep-ultraviolet (Deep-UV) lasers as light source. Pioneer's high-precision EBR employs an electron beam as a recording beam to sharply narrow the beam diameter, which can realize even finer pattern processing in the mastering process, compared with LBRs.

The high-precision EBR also achieves high levels of record-positioning accuracy, thanks to the high-precision recording position control technology, which the Pioneer group developed when it started with production of Laser Discs. Pioneer's EBR can manufacture master discs for high-density optical discs including Blu-ray discs, as well as Discrete Track Media and Patterned Media - higher-density hard disks regarded as highly promising future technologies.

Since Pioneer's Corporate R&D Laboratories began basic research on a high-precision EBR in 1993, its results have been presented at academic conferences and study groups. In the meantime, Pioneer's high-precision EBR technology has been highly evaluated as a key technology indispensable for the development of next-generation discs. In addition to that, the demand for such technology has been growing. Accordingly, Pioneer has decided to launch this high-precision EBR.

Pioneer FA expects that the market will expand and plans on promoting the development of next generation EBRs to realize even higher-density recording together with Pioneer.

Main Features:
1) Stable electron beam emission with a large current by utilizing a thermal/field type emitter.
2) Large, high-density recording capacity of 50GB or more on one side of a 12 cm disc.
3) High track-pitch accuracy.
4) High productivity with a load-lock chamber

[Main Specifications]

Electron beam emitter: Thermal/field emission type
Acceleration voltage: 50kV
Modulation speed: 6ns or lower (10% to 90%)
Beam deflector: 2-stage, bi-directional, 10ns or lower (10% to 90%)
Objective lens aperture: 4 positions selectable
Beam diameter/Beam current: 80nm/90nA or more
Spindle motor: Vacuum seal air spindle motor
Rotation speed 60rpm - 2,400rpm
Substrate: Silicone wafer (max. 8 inches)
Focus control: Optical height sensor (range: +/-250micon)
Stage position sensor: Laser interferometer (resolution ability: 0.6nm)

Re:full article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765933)

Trying to work your way back into positive numbers, eh troll?

"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (4, Informative)

AyeRoxor! (471669) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765633)

That's microwaves. Electron beams are what make your TV work. This is pretty amazing if they get this down to consumer price.

Re:"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (0, Troll)

mrdaveb (239909) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765707)

Electron beams are what make your TV work. This is pretty amazing if they get this down to consumer price

Yeah, because TVs aren't in the consumer price-range

Re:"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (4, Insightful)

AyeRoxor! (471669) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765749)

"Electron beams are what make your TV work. This is pretty amazing if they get this down to consumer price"

Yeah, because TVs aren't in the consumer price-range


Even though your post seems to imply it is I who doesn't understand, I'll forgo the urge to simply say "you're stupid," and try to explain. There is a great deal of difference between scattering a beam across a foot or two of phosphor dots, relatively regardless of where it lands, and actually having to be INCREDIBLY precise at where you hit, AND calculate data from the reflection of the beam. It's the difference between simply shining a flashlight at the night sky, and trying to tell what's in a pitch-black indoor arena using only a pen-laser.

Re:"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (1)

mrdaveb (239909) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765798)

Even though your post seems to imply it is I who doesn't understand, I'll forgo the urge to simply say "you're stupid," and try to explain. There is a great deal of difference between scattering a beam across a foot or two of phosphor dots, relatively regardless of where it lands, and actually having to be INCREDIBLY precise at where you hit, AND calculate data from the reflection of the beam. It's the difference between simply shining a flashlight at the night sky, and trying to tell what's in a pitch-black indoor arena using only a pen-laser.

I know this. But that isn't what you said. If you take what you actually said before, it sounded pretty stupid :-)

I would agree with you that it sounds like a tough thing to do - but then I would never believe it possible to take a cheap plastic disc, drop it on the floor then stick in in a cheap machine, slam the tray in and read 9GB of data flawlessly off one side of it! Except I do it every day, and it actually works.

Re:"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765888)

I know this. But that isn't what you said. If you take what you actually said before, it sounded pretty stupid :-)

Appeal: Denied.

You got: served.

Re:"But can it cook my TV dinner, too?" (1)

Naffer (720686) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765941)

Wait a sec, are you telling me that my television's electron gun isn't absolutly perfect.
There is a reason most nice televisions have convergence controls, because pefecting electron streams is damn hard. A stream of electrons a half a milimeter off target doesn't bother the eyes too much while watching movies, but it won't do you any good when you're trying to write data.

The Trend Now... (-1, Offtopic)

HappyCitizen (742844) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765638)

Its great that they can fit 50gb on one disk, but at the same time it shows a growing trend. Most things are bloated. Look at Windows XP, 2gb install, Linux usually atleast 200 mb. Then, look at the 3 ghz processers. Everything is bloated so much more. Syllable can fit in 1.44mb, and run on some really old hardware, and be nice and smooth. It shows that instead of programming things small and effiecient, we are building things bigger and faster to allow for lazier coding. I mean, with the millions of ops per second a 166mhz can handle, why should be need such high speeds to run Windows? It seems that lazier coding is the trend these days. If people still did things in ASM and such, and saved in PNG instead of BMP, we wouldn't need these 50 gb disks as much. Its sweet, but it just reminds me how much worse things have gotten at the same time. Atleast it allows newer programmers to get started easier.

A 'Box-Set' indeed! (3, Insightful)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765639)

You realize of course that the type of media involved here would almost certainly need to be incased in some sort of plastic sheath (Like the Blu-Ray HD DVDs). One scratch and you'd be done!

Not as portable, and certainly not as cheap to produce. A format like this would be a godsend for admins who do backups but as a common medium... Well, I imagine it might get as popular as something like Super Audio CD's or CD+G's for music.

In other words, not very much...

Re:A 'Box-Set' indeed! (5, Insightful)

Shoten (260439) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765693)

I don't think so; it's no longer a matter of optics, so optical deformities in the surface of the disk would not be an issue. And since I would guess the material that made up the disk itself would need only to be relatively transparent to the electron beam, it could be a lot less scratch-prone than lexan. The bigger problem might be certain kinds of dust, with unpredictable qualities that could affect the path or focus of the beam.

Re:A 'Box-Set' indeed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765822)

You realize of course that the type of media involved here would almost certainly need to be incased in some sort of plastic sheath

I don't know about almost certainly, but maybe just en case.

I don't like it.... (5, Funny)

djcreamy (729099) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765644)

All my porn on one DVD? All my eggs in one basket? Don't think so.

Re:I don't like it.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765739)

only 50GB of Porn!!

Come on your not really trying are you?!

Re:I don't like it.... (1, Funny)

djcreamy (729099) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765752)

I actually have tons...they're just all low-quality vids from yo momma's webcam. ;) /troll

Can it cook my dinner? (3, Interesting)

BJZQ8 (644168) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765645)

That's an electron beam, not a microwave beam. It won't cook your dinner. It might show you bacteria growing on your food, though.

Re:Can it cook my dinner? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765666)

If your food was plated in gold maybe....

Decay? (5, Interesting)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765646)

We know that CD-Rs and DVD-Rs decay over time as the chemicals holding the data inside the discs slowly deteriorate.

What kind of lifespans are we looking at for this kind of media?

Re:Decay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765901)

Oh about the length of time it take the major manufacturers to come up with another incompatiable format, that will come out in 2 different versions and have 5 different sub-types.

Question(s) (1)

rasafras (637995) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765653)

I would imagine it needs new disks for this, for starters. Even if it doesn't, though, it talks about master disks - does that mean that this method of manufacturing is only affordable to large companies to distribute many copies of something?
In that case, what do we, the users, need to read it? More accurate lasers?
Regardless, more = better.

Question(s)-DMADNA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765716)

Maybe used to etch a pattern that can be part of an encryption scheme?

Realistically they mention Hard Drives in their as well. Constrained monopoles anyone? :)

One question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765662)

will it run SCO OpenServer OS?

Re:One question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765698)

No Sorry
The new disks don't have the capacity to store all the Legal BS that origionates from SCO

If I Want a DVD Recorder... (5, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765663)

So if I want a DVD Recorder, soon my options will be:

  • Normal DVD+R(W)
  • Normal DVD-R(W)
  • Double Layer DVD+R(W)
  • Double Layer DVD-R(W)
  • Sony's new UMD (seen is PSP)
  • Blu-Ray (Sony is pushing this too, possibly the PS3 media of choice)
  • This new Electron one
  • ...And there is probably at least 1 or 2 others that I can't think of right now.

Makes VHS vs Beta simple, huh? Let's hope most of this gets sorted out before it gets to most consumers.

Re:If I Want a DVD Recorder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765708)

Read an intelligent book like "The New Thought Police" or "The War Against Boys", and learn the TRUTH.

Hey, dumbass; it's the XTIANS who're passing legislation like the Patriot Act. and people like YOU who see 'femanzis' under every bed HELPED THEM!!

Fucking traitor!!!

Re:If I Want a DVD Recorder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765712)

yes umm...

DVD+R(W) DL

Re:If I Want a DVD Recorder... (2, Interesting)

Hooya (518216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765789)

.. and the HP (?) DVD recorder where it etches an image on the top side with the same laser that burns the data on the bottom eliminating the need for a stick-on-label. i don't recall if the DVD format itself is new/different or not. the media itself is different tho (has to have that etchablity on the top side).

Re:If I Want a DVD Recorder... (1)

CodeSniper (744502) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765797)

The article only discusses it's use as a tool to create master copies to manufacture the newer, high density dvds(i.e. Blu-Ray). Not as a consumer recording device.

Re:If I Want a DVD Recorder... (1)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765837)

A few thoughts: The UMD probably won't show up in a burnable format anytime soon, Blu-ray is a generation after DVD-R/+R and all that (competing with HD-DVD) and "This new Electron one" is a generation after that. So yeah, I don't like hasseling with +R and -R and all that either, but you're exaggurating a bit. Besides, most DVD burners today burn both + and - formats, so it's not that huge of a deal (that type of thing does seem a quite unlikely for Blu-ray and HD-DVD, though.)

Gackpth (4, Interesting)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765671)

Good lord, 50gb?

How long would that take to burn? Lesse... If we have standard 4x, that would mean 50gb in 20 minutes... which would mean, hmm..
50*1024=51200Mb
51200/(20*60)= ~43megs/second.

Wow. My hard drive can't even transfer over 10 megs per second to a second hard drive in my computer. I can see why this technology is still quite a far way off.... I would have to seriously upgrade my whole system if this came along even in a couple of years!

Get a new system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765736)

I have a 2 year old machime that can easially cope with moving that amount of data arround. You just need to do things right!
43MB/s is not a big deal

Re:Gackpth (1)

Phosphor3k (542747) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765748)

Wow. My hard drive can't even transfer over 10 megs per second to a second hard drive in my computer.
Then you have serious issuses. Make sure the drives are on a different ata chains if possible. Also check to make sure you have appropriate DMA drivers installed. If you have already done this and the transfer between the two drives is still at 10 megs then you need to look into replacing the actual ata cables with new, non-rounded, non-cheap cables. Even on the same chain you should be seeing higher drive-to-drive transfers than that.

Re:Gackpth (1)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765844)

Hmm, I use reiserfs, could that have something to do with it?

I'm using a seagate 80gb and a WD 80gb SE, with 8mb buffer. In linux, hdparm -t /dev/hda and hdparm -t /dev/hdb both get upwards of 40 mb/s... But, transfers between the drives are consistently about 10 megs/s

It might be as you say, thanks for the tip. Might also be my motherboard... It's a rather low quality shuttle that replaced a busted ASUS board.

Re:Gackpth (1)

wik (10258) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765875)

Don't forget that writes are generally slower than reads and hdparm doesn't test that.

In any case, toying with the DMA and PIO modes using hdparm may help a bit.

Re:Gackpth (4, Informative)

russianspy (523929) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765863)

I've seen two year old laptops do about 20Megs/s. If you're running linux, use a program called hdparm. Try running this as root: hdparm -d 1 -u 1 -c 1 /dev/hda You can test the performance with: hdparm -t -T /dev/hda Repeat as necessary for each HD. Also put it somewhere where it will be executed at bootup. For reference, My Maxtor 80Gig drive does rougly 50Megs/s. My Sata drive usually does above 70.

only for creating masters (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765680)

People seem to be missing the fact that this is a device for creating master discs, rather than an end-user product. The 50GB limit is what can be read by the optical devices the mass-produced copies of this master disc will eventually be played on.

Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765722)

What does a "master" disc mean? Does this mean this isn't a consumer device? If it's not, why the hell do we care?

Re:Huh? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765775)

A master disc is sort of what it sounds like. A single disc is made that represents the "perfect" version. Mass-production techniques are then used to "stamp-out" (a huge oversimplification) thousands of copies.

If you can create a better master, then your copies will be accordingly better. Even though the disk is digital, it is still a physical medium, which makes the accuracy of the original important.

What this thing looks like is a device that can do a "better" job than an optical system at creating that master disc. Note that this doesn't mean this device can even read what it writes.

So yeah. We really shouldn't care.

Re:Huh? (1)

photon317 (208409) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765934)


Master discs still make no sense to me for CD/DVD. It's digital data. The original data is bits, which I can store in a mirrored drive array and back up several copies of to tape if I feel the need. I can make "perfect" copies from this source, and the source never goes bad. So why worry about the physical precision of a supposed master disc, which then has to be read into bits and written into another disc, when we can just read the bits stored in a hard drive somewhere and do the same?

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765821)

Ah yes grasshopper, the enigma of the "master" disc.

Long ago in a land far away there came a tale of great woe and suffering. Out of the tradegy of human misery arose a might "master" disc. This disc it was told held more knowledge of the ancients than ever before.

Long and great did the rule of the "master" disc reign, but the seeds of the usurper had been sown.

Then one day the consumer consortium convened a meeting to decide the future of knowledge coalascence. But alass a decision was not reached and the consortium members went their seperate ways, forever dooming the consumers to incompatiable standards and miss-matched solutions.

Thus, the seeds of discontent sown, did man begin the search for the path fromith the hell you speak to the ultimate consumer device.

Your facts... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765754)

are only getting in the way of "all my porn" jokes.

Largely irrelevant news... (4, Insightful)

Insanity (26758) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765733)

According to the article, this technology has been developed for creating master discs for the upcoming blue laser optical standards. Currently, this is being done with UV lasers.

This will probably never be used as the basis of a consumer recordable format - we don't even have consumer-level blue laser drives yet. Furthermore, we could realize a significant increase in capacity over blue laser by using UV lasers, which will probably be the trend after blue proves to be too limiting.

This article has practically no applicability to the average slashdot reader - it's not an "electron beam dvd" as the title of the article suggets. Editors should really read the articles they post...

Re:Largely irrelevant news... (1)

alien666 (623909) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765815)

No one will ever burn their own DVDs.

No one will ever burn their own CDs.

640K RAM ...

Ummm actually... (1)

MoeMoe (659154) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765735)

But can it cook my TV dinner, too?

Well, I'm no physics wiz but as a matter of fact... YES! [cplire.ru]

Self-building computer (2, Funny)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765740)

But can it cook my TV dinner, too?"

No, but put a silicon blank in it and it can etch you a new CPU.

Case or Caddie? (5, Insightful)

Neuticle (255200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765765)

Oh for the love of God I hope they put this in a caddie of some sort to protect it. I'm still upset that DVDs are bare media.
CDs get bad enough skipps, DVDs are worse, what's going to happen to this next generation media when it gets scratched? Will a scratch obliterate several hundred megs? At some point error correction just doesn't cut it, a protective caddie is a necessity here.

As for HD-DVD or Blu-ray or this e-beam stuff, if one doesn't use a caddie, don't support it. We shouldn't have our media ruined if they don't get treated perfectly. If I was one for conspiracy theories, I'd think DVD is one to get us to buy the same thing over and over since the discs are so fragile.

Re:Case or Caddie? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765783)

A caddie exists for DVDs and CDs. It's called a case.

Re:Case or Caddie? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765852)

Ho MORON!

How are you today?

  • 1. Would you like to make a useless post?

  • 2. Reply in an infammatory style
    3. Or completely miss the point, but post anyway
>3

You have selected 3. Well go ahead but I suggest you keep it brief just so you don't look too stupid.

SUBMIT

Re:Case or Caddie? (5, Funny)

Brobock (226116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765862)

If I was one for conspiracy theories, I'd think DVD is one to get us to buy the same thing over and over

You mean like this [amazon.com] .

The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers (Platinum Series Special Extended Edition)
The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers (Widescreen Edition)
The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers (Full Screen Edition)
The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers (Platinum Series Special Extended Edition Collector's Gift Set)
The Lord Of The Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy (Widescreen Edition)
The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring / The Two Towers (Widescreen Editions) (2-Pack)
The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers (Super Turbo Championship Edition)

new discs - new type of media. (1)

EnterpriseNCC-1701 (664193) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765772)

Well, now that the large discs are there, some new type of media will develope that requires comparitivily large amounts of space. Does this mean that we will have movies in the from of 3d holograms?? or maybe we'll have holedec movies!? Wahoo, soon I will be able to watch Captain Kirk and some girl.... (err... ...I will be able to watch nice space battles in full 3d!)

Lauren

Promising but.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8765800)

I'm pretty bored of being baited by these enticing sounding technologies, only to never hear a single thing about them ever again.

Believe it or not, some years back a car could run on electricity! electricity!

Dinner? How about some pancakes (1, Offtopic)

BigFootApe (264256) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765808)

Clicky clicky [voltnet.com]

Bring back the CRT. (4, Funny)

blair1q (305137) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765816)

Just when you thought CRT technology was dead, they bring it back as a memory device.

This world will look like the set of Brazil before we know it.

Star Wars Trilogy Electronic Beam Edition (3, Funny)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765836)

With new scenes never before seen in theaters, on Laserdisc, VHS, or DVD!

Powerful laser?? (0, Flamebait)

Mondoz (672060) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765846)

"enormous Swiss Cheese" reference now satisfied.

Static discharge? (0)

niktesla (761443) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765884)

I wonder how sensitive this media is to ESD. Shocks like you get when walking across carpet can be on the order of at least 4kV (the treshold for feeling it), so if you had a particularly stong static discharge could it damage the media? The article uses a 50kV beam, so such a ESD might not be very easy to generate. I guess it'd be no worse to guard against than magnetic media and stray magnetic fields.

X-Ray machine anyone? (3, Funny)

gnuman99 (746007) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765896)

Electron beam emitter: Thermal/field emission type
Acceleration voltage: 50kV

So are we in the X-ray range yet? Will the drive be enclosed with lead and have a prominent sticker on it WARNING: Radiation Hazard ?

cool....but can it be adapted for... (0, Redundant)

MoFoQ (584566) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765913)

but can it be adapted for use on current CDR/DVDR media?

This technique is for MASTER discs (5, Informative)

Cutie Pi (588366) | more than 10 years ago | (#8765923)

Everyone seems to be missing the point of this article. Pioneer's technology is for making the master discs, which are used to stamp the read layers of DVDs. This technology is not for burning high capacity media.

It is essentially the same tech that the semiconductor industry has been using for years (decades?) to create masks for photolithography.

I can't imagine how an electron beam recording system would make it into a consumer product. These systems have essentially the same precision technology that scanning electon microscopes have, i.e. they ain't cheap. Plus, it's not just a matter of throwing a master disc "blank" into the unit and pressing go. There are several process steps.
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