Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

141 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Picture of developer (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8837398)

Here is a picture of the *BSD developer [myip.org]

Re:Picture of developer (3, Informative)

noselasd (594905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837588)

Link is broken. A real picture is here [freebsd.org] .

Re:Picture of developer (1)

noselasd (594905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838325)

Hmm, honest question, why a troll mod ? the link points to http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/
which actually IS poul henning kamp's homepage..

Re:Picture of developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8839550)

Probably the "BSD is dying" trolls not appreciating your being on topic.

Re:Picture of developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8853591)

Because you replied to a blatant troll (strike number one) with a post that wasn't even factually correct (the link isn't broken at all). People like you are the reason the *BSD trolls are still around, grow the fuck up already.

Re:Picture of developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8840648)

people with red hair look scary with facial hair

Re:Picture of developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8842925)

word. I saw him in real life at BSDCon, and although he's a great guy, the red facial hair did throw me off a bit.

-anonymous

Not asking for much... (4, Interesting)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837438)

RedHat charged people $60/year for access to binary updates (the company which has taken over supplying updates to old RedHat releases also charges the same rate). MandrakeClub costs at least $60/year, with a "Recommended level" of $120/year.

As phk wrote, "Imagine if some of our users sent $1/month for each FreeBSD machine they were running." There are a lot of people and companies running FreeBSD, and it wouldn't take much from each of them to pay for several people to work full-time on FreeBSD.

Re:Not asking for much... (5, Informative)

dotz (683519) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837797)

And, as phk says, you'll get much more, than just some binary updates [freebsd.org] .

Re:Not asking for much... (1)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837833)

And, as phk says, you'll get much more, than just some binary updates.

A good thing, too, considering how much I've gathered in donations from FreeBSD Update: $10 plus a new computer which is dedicated to the task of building those updates. (That's with over 3000 users.)

Re:Not asking for much... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838759)

There are a lot of people and companies running FreeBSD, and it wouldn't take much from each of them to pay for several people to work full-time on FreeBSD.

Indeed.

I work for a firm with at least 50 FreeBSD boxes. After the recent tcp advisory the boss cant stop with semi-serious offensive comments about the BSD community. I'm now trying to get him to realise that the weight of his complaints are directly proportional to what he's contributed to FreeBSD... i.e. nothing.

Now if there was some way to allow him to pay money into FreeBSD... and have a say... I'm sure he'd go for it. I mean he pays for an MS TechNet subscription and all that seems to get him is a few CDs every month. Hell, this would be in addition to the ongoing FreeBSD development, so there would be a net gain.

Re:Not asking for much... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8839473)

The funding should go to the main project and not an individual developer. Nomatter how much work he can get done this way, it illustrates a problem with essentially free distributions. SOME funding is always going to be needed and I think most commercial entities would pay a small licence if so was required. Essentially there should be a payment system much like SUN uses for downloading evaluation versions of Solaris.

Re:Not asking for much... (2, Insightful)

phkamp (524380) | more than 10 years ago | (#8839564)

In an ideal world, I'd say you are spot on here, but unfortunately, this is not an ideal world.

Any amount of administration needs somebody to do that, if you administer money, some tax-entity will want to know about it and will want you to do it according to a set of rules, and quite likely, want you to pay tax on it too.

As I wrote in my solicitation, I wish the foundation could have handled this, but they did not have the resources to deal with it, mostly, and that is the interesting bit: lack of time.

It will take some time before OSS projects like FreeBSD has the necessary infrastructure to deal with a systematic user-payment model. Until then we'll just have to do what we can, while we remember:

T.T.T
Put up in a place
where it's easy to see
the cryptic admonishment
T.T.T.
When you feel how depressingly
slowly you climb,
it's well to remember that
Things Take Time.
-- Piet Hein

Re:Not asking for much... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8841129)

Hey Poul, fuck you. You're a high-UID moron here.

Troll Glass

Lights out, pard (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8842531)

Somewhere, in a lonely hospital room,

*BSD is dying

He wants HOW much? (0, Flamebait)

.@. (21735) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837766)

USD$5500/month? That's more than my net take home, and that's with a $415k mortgage to feed!

It may be where his budget balances, but if he expects to live off the kindness of strangers, he needs to adjust his budget substantially.

He's got some enormous cojones asking people to give him what amounts to $66,000 net/year salary (it'd be over USD$100,000 gross/year were he salaried).

Re:He wants HOW much? (4, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837818)

USD$5500/month? That's more than my net take home

He still has to pay taxes, you know...

It may be where his budget balances, but if he expects to live off the kindness of strangers, he needs to adjust his budget substantially.

He's not *expecting* anything. This is an experiment: See if the FreeBSD community is willing to pay for someone to work full-time on FreeBSD. If not, well, he finds more contract work, earns the same amount (or more), and works on FreeBSD in his spare time.

Re:He wants HOW much? (5, Informative)

phkamp (524380) | more than 10 years ago | (#8837954)

I have to pay my income tax, which here in Denmark is roughly 2/3, and that means the number you are looking at is a $22K/year net salary.

Depending on the jobdescription, my normal salary would be at least $75K, so I tend to think that the FreeBSD users are getting a pretty good deal here.

(And before anybody falls into the other ditch: For that tax we get full healthcare, free schools (incl university) and a practically non-corrupt political system.

Re:He wants HOW much? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838075)

I have to pay my income tax, which here in Denmark is roughly 2/3, and that means the number you are looking at is a $22K/year net salary.

Denmark extorts two-thirds of your salary from you in income tax? That's insanity. Why don't you move to another country where you can keep more of what you earn like the United States? I think all my taxes combined are about 30% of my income.

Re:He wants HOW much? (5, Insightful)

phkamp (524380) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838160)

You know, the funny thing is, once you're done paying for all the little not-at-all-tax-items like health-care, pensions, education for your kids etc, then I probably have more financial freedom than you have.

For my 2/3 tax, I get healthcare and there are no "pre-existing conditions" or HMOs to deal with.

It's a bit hard to explain to americans, but healthcare is simply not a thing I have to consider in relation to my employment.

I also get education, including college, for my kids.

I don't have to fear the pan-handlers, insane and other strays because we actually have a social care system that works.

And don't even get me started about guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business.

I've lived in San Francisco. My son is born there.

I don't miss any of those things.

What I get by paying the same amount you do, is peace of mind.

Priceless!

Re:He wants HOW much? (3, Interesting)

zulux (112259) | more than 10 years ago | (#8839090)

I don't have to fear the pan-handlers, insane and other strays because we actually have a social care system that works.

You *ALSO* have the benifit os a stable socioty that has set expectations on behaviour.

We Americans come from so many parts of the world, that we Americans can have many views of other Americans...

One person's "Gun Nut" is another person's "2nd Amemendment Fan."
One person's "Dirty Hippy" is another person's "Free Sprit."

America *is* the land of pan-handlers, insandes and strays.

I like it that way - it's interesting.

(PS Thanks for all your previous work with FreeBSD - 4.9 is polised perfection and the 5.0 series is facinating)

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#8844278)

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The US has pretended to have a single dominant culture in the past, but it never really had one. It certainly doesn't have one now. We are a land of hundreds of separate and distinct tribes living in close proximity. While there are benefits to this multiculturalism, it's not without its price.

Europe is different. Many European nations have had a dominant culture for so long that they're actually NAMED for the culture! When everyone in your city looks the same, dresses the same, speaks the same language, and belongs to the same religion, it's pretty easy to lead a very level existence. But you're changing and changing rapidly. The only thing keeping you from US style social turmoil is inertia.

Re:He wants HOW much? (3, Insightful)

rsidd (6328) | more than 10 years ago | (#8845340)

When everyone in your city looks the same, dresses the same, speaks the same language, and belongs to the same religion

I don't know about Denmark, but have you actually been to, say, Paris or Amsterdam or Barcelona? They're a lot more multicultural than pretty much any city in the US except maybe New York and one or two others (and on the whole much less ghettoised than New York). Smaller towns in Europe are comparatively homogeneous, but no more so than mid-western American towns.

Re:He wants HOW much? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8839175)

Damn you rich peaceful socialists!!! You really piss off us poor bloodthirsty capitalist Americans.

Re:He wants HOW much? (-1, Troll)

possible (123857) | more than 10 years ago | (#8841732)

I don't have to fear the pan-handlers, insane and other strays because we actually have a social care system that works.

And don't even get me started about guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business.

That's quite an attitude for someone who's begging for money. You'd better hope the Europeans and Australians have enough generosity to fund you. I can't see how you'll get many donations from the U.S.A. with such a chip on your shoulder.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

BasharTeg (71923) | more than 10 years ago | (#8842946)

"I can't see how you'll get many donations from the U.S.A. with such a chip on your shoulder."

You can't?! Well, come on over to my house and watch me paypal him some money for his hard work!

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

rsax (603351) | more than 10 years ago | (#8843395)

That's quite an attitude for someone who's begging for money.

He's not begging for money. Begging implies that he expects money from you and delivers nothing in return. He will be doing some much needed development work which I'm sure all FreeBSD users will appreciate in the end. And it's not like he's trolling or lying about what he said: "guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business." All of those seem to apply in some form or the other.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Markus Landgren (50350) | more than 10 years ago | (#8849106)

And don't even get me started about guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business.


That's quite an attitude for someone who's begging for money. You'd better hope the Europeans and Australians have enough generosity to fund you. I can't see how you'll get many donations from the U.S.A. with such a chip on your shoulder.


Maybe the American FreeBSD users actually like freedom? The other Americans who are big fans of bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business are probably using BSDOfHomelandSecurity instead of FreeBSD and would be unwilling to donate to FreeBSD anyway.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

jhunsake (81920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8850624)

with such a chip on your shoulder

I'm glad I'm not the only one that got that vibe. He obviously has some problems if he's going to let his need to rip on others ruin his chances of getting funding from them.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8859546)

PHK:"And don't even get me started about guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business."

You:"I can't see how you'll get many donations from the U.S.A. with such a chip on your shoulder."

Why? Do most of the US americans identify themselves with the: "guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business."?

I won't be surprised that you are right and a lot of the US americans think that way.

But if that is so then the US americans shouldn't be too surprised if terrorists and others also identify them along with the "Corruption/Oppressive Regime etc". Such US Americans aren't innocent bystanders IF they count themselves part of the "corruption/Oppressive Regime etc".

What next? Someone is going to say the US Gov is not a corrupt and oppressive regime controlled by big business?

I wonder what the US Americans have been drinking in their "Kool-Aid".

wow :) (1)

apachetoolbox (456499) | more than 10 years ago | (#8842628)

nice! so what are the immigration laws in Denmark like? Whats the technical job market like?

Re:wow :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845451)

nice! so what are the immigration laws in Denmark like? Whats the technical job market like?

Actually, they're doing their best to completely eliminate immigration...

Re:wow :) (1)

CaptainPinko (753849) | more than 10 years ago | (#8853498)

Must countries always allow specialists to enter their country since their can never be enough brain surgeons, quantum physicists, bio-computational scientists so w/ a name like apachetoolbox i'm guessin' he has some marketable skills that could get her/him in.

Re:He wants HOW much? (-1, Flamebait)

jhunsake (81920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8844701)

I've lived in San Francisco.

San Francisco is the farthest extreme from "normal" America.

Healthcare is free in the U.S. when you are unemployed, it's called the emergency room. Education is of course free up to 12th grade. (The government does provide grants, scholarships, and other financial aid for college, so it's not as bad as people make it out to be.) Where I live (midwest), I rarely see pan-handlers, insane and other strays. Don't judge the U.S. based on the big cities, because all big cities across the world are that way.

I was going to donate, but now that you've completely distorted reality to make your government (system, country, whatever) seem better than mine, FUCK YOU!

Re:He wants HOW much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8844974)

Don't judge the U.S. based on the big cities, because all big cities across the world are that way.

No, you hick, they are not. That was the point fuckwit.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845587)

Hmm, I've been to Europe and I have many friends from Asia. From what I hear, Asian big cities are the worst. I honestly can't tell the difference between San Fran and Paris (except for the armed military guys walking around Paris... WTF are they doing with automatic rifles in the subway?!). There are homeless, there are people walking over each other, it smells, you tell me the difference.

Re:He wants HOW much? (0, Offtopic)

thejuggler (610249) | more than 10 years ago | (#8849498)

Fact: San Fran = Paris (Smelly and dirty and not like the rest of the country)
Fact: Small town USA = Small town Euro (Quiet ususally friendly and a stable)
Fact: High Taxes = Oppression (Thats why we left the European countries and became Americans in the first place. And many more are still coming to America)

I'll take the USA anyday, lower taxes and more 'I'll do it myself' attitudes.

The USA is NOT PERFECT. It never was, it never will be. All we can hope to do is keep trying till we get it right. To quite trying is to fail.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

jhunsake (81920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8850592)

Very nicely said.

How Charming you are (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846231)

After reading that I'm assured that you are at least half as charming as Theo.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Pope13 (259893) | more than 10 years ago | (#8853713)

I don't have to fear the pan-handlers, insane and other strays because we actually have a social care system that works.

I have been to Copenhagen a few times, and I can not believe that you seems to imply that the pan-handling problem is much worse in the States. I saw as many pan handlers on the Walking Mall in Copenhagen as I do in DC. As for the crazy people, I have seen Idioterne [imdb.com] , the crazies in Copenhagen truely messed up.

Re:He wants HOW much? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838077)

So how does it feel to be an indentured servant of your government?

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

scottj (7200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8839922)

The tax rate there is astounding! But I do agree: the FreeBSD community is getting a great deal here. We would be foolish to not take you up on this offering. In fact, we would be foolish to not employ you next year as well.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

.@. (21735) | more than 10 years ago | (#8840632)

It may be helpful to explain to people the exorbitant tax rate you face when asking for donations, then. I'm much more sympathetic to the request knowing that 2/3rds disappears into the government ether.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

rsidd (6328) | more than 10 years ago | (#8842791)

I'm much more sympathetic to the request knowing that 2/3rds disappears into the government ether.

I'm sympathetic too, but I'm finding it harder to pony up knowing that 2/3 of it will disappear into the government ether and it's not even my government (especially as I just did my own taxes today, and that's not my government either, it's a government that will spend my money on cluster-bombs and daisy-cutters... hm, perhaps I should indeed donate to PHK and the Danish government)

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 10 years ago | (#8843037)

2/3rd of donated money doesn't fund you or BSD development, it funds the Danish gov't. While it may be nice that they provide all those nice social services, the thought leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Re:He wants HOW much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8847809)

> 2/3rd of donated money doesn't fund you or BSD development, it funds the Danish gov't. While it may be nice that they provide all those nice social services, the thought leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

No. 2/3rd of the amount goes to phk through its government (healthcare, child education, infrastructure, etc, etc)

So, you don't wnat to fund the danish governement but you want to fund freebsd ?

What is really funny is that a FreeBSD user could say the same: "I don't want to fund phk's work in the kernel, I just want to have a faster gcc on multi-processor systems". Well, a phk does infrastructure work that gives a fatser gcc. In the same sense that the danish governement gives health care to phk, which gives a better MP system, which gives a faster gcc...

Re:He wants HOW much? (3, Insightful)

Money for Nothin' (754763) | more than 10 years ago | (#8853904)

For that tax we get full healthcare, free schools (incl university)

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

If you're paying taxes to get your education, then it's not really "free," now is it?

That's like a car salesman showing you a $20,000 car and saying "Give me $20,000 and you can have this new car for free!" It's a dumb way of looking at trade.

and a practically non-corrupt political system.

One of the things that has been fairly-consistent about statist nations is that after the veil of communism/socialism has been lifted (e.g. after the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism), it's often found that the government beneath that statist veil was quite corrupt. Russia is a perfect example, and it remains as corrupt as ever; China and North Korea too, are prime examples. And Tony Blair doesn't seem too popular among Brits these days, having played along with the Bush II corruption in Iraq.

Not that the U.S. doesn't have its share of corrupt officials -- we have plenty of them -- but at least we *generally* know who is corrupt and who isn't. For example, the former Senator Fritz Hollings was bought off by the MPAA and RIAA (remember the "Fritz chip" that was to be in everybody's computer as mandated by legislation?) - and now he's out of the Senate. Now if only we can do that with President Bush...

Point is, don't buy so much into a nation's horse-and-pony show if you don't have complete and absolute transparency of your government. I wish Americans would take that advice w.r.t. the closed-door dealings we have in Congress occasionally (for "national security," of course *rolls eyes*) and work harder to open them up...

Great work on FreeBSD 5.x BTW. :) But considering you get all those services "for free" with the taxes you pay, one wonders why you would ever need the equivalent of $66,000/year to continue working on FreeBSD. Why don't you and your family live (at least partially) off those services for which you pay so much in taxes? Why should you want to earn such a large salary anyway? After all - you have your government to take care of you...

(I'll admit though, that if you pay 2/3 of your salary to taxes, that you're getting a better deal than us Americans. We pay roughly 50% of our salary in taxes (i.e. we are now 50% socialist), and we don't get subsidized healthcare, university education, and so on. All we get is an oversized military that protects the U.S., Europe, and the rest of our allies, whee... (your taxes would be higher if you had to spend more on your military to protect your country from Russia, etc. You reap the rewards of the U.S.'s implicit protection of the entire Euro-area, including Denmark))

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

ChristTrekker (91442) | more than 10 years ago | (#8858883)

I'll admit though, that if you pay 2/3 of your salary to taxes, that you're getting a better deal than us Americans. We pay roughly 50% of our salary in taxes (i.e. we are now 50% socialist), and we don't get subsidized healthcare, university education, and so on. All we get is an oversized military that protects the U.S., Europe, and the rest of our allies, whee... (your taxes would be higher if you had to spend more on your military to protect your country from Russia, etc. You reap the rewards of the U.S.'s implicit protection of the entire Euro-area, including Denmark)

Don't forget that the price-controlled pharmaceuticals there have stifled research in European drug companies, so Americans are also subsidizing the majority of the world's drug research. Looks like the AARP lobby is going to have their way, so American outlets will have to compete with foreign ones on price. Say good-bye to any new drug research. I hope the seniors are happy that they're saving a few bucks at the expense of shortening their grandchildren's lifespans. Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8859344)

How about credit card support?

Paypal doesn't support that many countries.

Re:He wants HOW much? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838534)


Two quick observations. First, if you are carrying a $415k mortgage on a salary / wage of less than $5500.00 a month you either a) have no kids or b) have a really odd sense of how interest rates work.


"He's got some enormous cojones asking people to give him what amounts to $66,000 ..."


Not really. Poul-Henning Kamp is one of those individuals working on FreeBSD that should in no way feel bad for trying to balance time on a great open source project with family needs. He has the skills. It seems to me that this is a creative solution to help keep excellent developers on projects as they get older, have kids, mortgages, car payments etc etc.


Posting as AC ... mod me down if you wish but lose the intergenerational bullshit.

Re:He wants HOW much? (3, Informative)

CaptainPinko (753849) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838941)

First it would be $66K gross not net since this is taxable income.

Second Linus does not work for free either and I wonder how much he gets paid.

Third $66k is not that much. Teachers make that, and one of my professors pulls in a $104k. Upper management positions can easily pull that much in and a lot more. This may seem a lot for someone working minimum wage or as a receptionist, entry level web designer but that comparison is invalid. We are talking about a proven, experienced, relaible hacker. A fairer comparison would be comparing to surgeons lawyer and other specialist positions.

If you don;t like the deal don't donate and he'll take his time elsewhere at a great to not just FreeBSD but to the entire OSS community.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8839147)

To put it in perspective -- $66K would be less than half what an experienced UNIX kernel engineer would be making in the Valley or Boston.

Of course, *BSD work is now few and far between. You have Apple, and maybe some maintenance jobs at Yahoo.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Zebra_X (13249) | more than 10 years ago | (#8841235)

Which isn't a lot for a really good programmer. Perhaps my friend you bought too much house, and perhaps you are underpaid. You might want to take that up with HR, and of course interest rates are quite low these days (or recently were).

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

.@. (21735) | more than 10 years ago | (#8844544)

Trust me...1400 sq. ft. is not "too much house". And it's a townhome. Life in Silicon Valley is very expensive, housing-wise.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Zebra_X (13249) | more than 10 years ago | (#8847521)

Ahh.... we over on the east coast, boston in particular, suffer from the same thing, 400K gets you a closet around here.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

Quill_28 (553921) | more than 10 years ago | (#8858766)

About a 2,800 sq ft home, with 3/4 acre. Large oak trees, dogwoods in bloom.

I have a small strawberry and black raspberry patch. And a garden with beans, squash, and tomatoes.

Work? Software company 10 minutes away, one stop light.

110K is what I paid.

Sorry, there has to be some benefits of living in small town TN. I am sure there are other benefits of living in silicon valley or boston.

Re:He wants HOW much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845780)

USD$5500/month?


And I think PHK is worth every penny of it. But we should spend money only on extant systems.

Re:He wants HOW much? (1)

erik_norgaard (692400) | more than 10 years ago | (#8862817)

Do the calculus again - it is not net salary.

In Denmark an average resently graduate engenier can expect about USD 4500-5000/month when starting in a new job.

PHK - haven't met him personally but - is highly skilled with 10 years experience hacking freebsd code, not an average resent graduate.

Of the USD 5500 he has to pay VAT 25%. That leaves him with USD 4400/month gross, this is the salery you should compare against. A salery less than that of a recent graduate.

The deal you are offered is extremely good! In terms of price for work. If you don't want that work done - don't donate.

Or donate to something else like the freebsdfoundation if you have more confidence in phk.

Otherwise, I suggest you weigh this investment against the loss in case the solution will wait yet another year. It's a difficult task, but do consider.

Regards, Erik - a dane, but not the red on :-)

PS: Of course, you can reduce cost of living moving to other parts of the world - I'd love to work on a beach in Brazil, surf the waves by day, surf slashdot by night ;-), maybe this is the solution OSS developers should consider to make the fundings sufice.

BSD-wide lack of time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8837863)

"Ideally, this would have run as a project by the foundation and all fund-raising would have gone to/via the foundation.

Unfortunately the board of directors did not feel that they would be able to tackle this task at the current time, mainly due to lack of time on the part of the foundations officers. " - http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/funding.html

Does any of you also has such problems?

in some areas, BSD developers seem not to have time for even basic things,

GNATS databases are full of unresolved problem reports,

simplies e-mails get no replies,

standard reply "noone pays us for developing bsd",

standard follow-up "so as noone pays me for wasting my time on it"...

Why is the situation like those, how do you think? I'd also like to see comments of other people, who also had lags in communication with BSD developers.

Re:BSD-wide lack of time (4, Informative)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 10 years ago | (#8839811)

somewhat related: I filed only ports-related bug reports. 3 of them. One was a disaster as far as writing a pr goes - it was my very first one, and forgot to fill out the how to reproduce the error part. I never expected a reply to that one, but eventually, someone after 2 months replied :)

The replies to the other 2 PRs were more than exemplary. I got replies (and patches) in less than 2 hours for my reports on wine not compiling [freebsd.org] and amarok using using up all kern.maxproc [freebsd.org] . This, of course, doesn't mean that src folks are as much diligent as ports folks are, but the few times I browsed the -current and other mailing lists, devs. seemed friendly and helpful most of the time. Just my 2cents.

Re:BSD-wide lack of time (3, Informative)

scottj (7200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8839951)

I've only had excellent experiences with the core team of developers. Every well-crafted PR that I've submitted has been treated to a solution in less than one week. The team is very responsive and is quick to escalate a problem when necessary. I've never received such dedicated attention on a paid support contract. These guys deserve every penny we donate to them.

Re:BSD-wide lack of time (3, Informative)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#8841404)

The team is very responsive...

Yes, well... (*ahem*).

To be perfectly honest, you've been lucky. Ports PRs tend to get resolved fairly quickly; src PRs often get lost in the shuffle. The big problem is that most PRs are poorly written, either lacking necessary information or lacking coherant English; as a result, most src committers won't take the time necessary to comb through the database in order to find the relatively few good PRs.

Prior to getting a commit bit of my own, I often had bug fixes sit in the PR database for months... the trick, as I learned, is to send in the PR with a patch, wait a couple weeks, and then start sending emails to committers.

Dealing with PRs is certainly a major issue which we'd like to improve upon, but in the end it's all a question of time and money; reading through PRs is rather dull work, and if we're not going to pay people (and there isn't any money available for this) then there simply isn't enough committer-time to do as well as we should.

Re:BSD-wide lack of time (3, Interesting)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 10 years ago | (#8855251)

Well, I am not a programmer, that's why I've been reluctant to send in PRs - for the reasons you cited: I didn't/don't want to congest their database, which seems to be overloaded all the time btw. Not that poorly written PRs are their fault... They have excellent guidelines [freebsd.org] useful for us noobs as well.

On the other hand, (good) PRs are very important. I've been (I am still) very critical about the quality of gentoo (my roommate uses it, and since he is a *nix novice, I had the pleasure/pain of figuring out some stuff in gentoo), but I saw on their forums developers (ebuild-maintainers to be precise) complaining about the lack of bugreports.

So I was thinking about how us non-ubergeeks could contribute in a helpful way, and I think a separate section on bsdforums (say "PR Candidates") could be created, where we, users would test out some things to make 100% sure it is really a bug, it is reproducable, etc. before we submit it. Originator would be bsdforums, the threads could be used as reference, and thread participants would volunteer to test out the patches sent back.

Re:BSD-wide lack of time (3, Interesting)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#8858895)

So I was thinking about how us non-ubergeeks could contribute in a helpful way, and I think a separate section on bsdforums (say "PR Candidates") could be created, where we, users would test out some things to make 100% sure it is really a bug, it is reproducable, etc. before we submit it. Originator would be bsdforums, the threads could be used as reference, and thread participants would volunteer to test out the patches sent back.

That would be great; but much less than that would still be helpful. Having someone go through and identify PRs which
1. Report a reproducible bug, and
2. Contain a patch which fixes that bug
would be useful just by itself.

Outsourcing to India ... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8837940)

><

Has he tried McDonalds? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8837944)

They are generally friendly towards FreeBSD developers and pay pretty good donation money, but require to show up and make burgers every once in a while.

I am a world-renowned FreeBSD developer and so far I got my Mom to pay me $10 a week, plus 30 hours a week at McDonalds bring in healthy $200, life is not bad.

Get a freakin' job (-1, Flamebait)

b-baggins (610215) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838226)

The chutzpah of some of these open-source people really annoys me. There was a time when real men were ASHAMED to take charity when they had the ability to work, even if it was just digging ditches.

Re:Get a freakin' job (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838565)

he seems pretty darn unashamed of digging his own grave in a bigger crater of a grave that is BSD.

Honorably Done (0, Offtopic)

judmarc (649183) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838453)

Hope you make your goal, Poul-Henning, or rather that the community makes it possible. I'm shoveling all my money into a new-house-sized hole as fast as I can or you'd have my donation already.

Re:Honorably Done (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838599)

i can shovel something into your own hole, and you better be sure as hell it aint greenbacks, buddy. ;)

Re:Honorably Done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8838804)

hey, that'd be a great way for a freebsd developer to make some money on the side!

Re:Honorably Done (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8843136)

How do you think FreeBSD is currently funded? The problem now is probably that too many developers are dying of AIDS and they are looking for an alternative.

Re:Honorably Done (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845684)

How do you think FreeBSD is currently funded? The problem now is probably that too many developers are dying of AIDS and they are looking for an alternative.

Hahahah! This is the funnest shit I've read on Slashdot in a while. The dorks that modded you down clearly have no sense of humor.

Pahroza seeking donations. (-1, Offtopic)

Pahroza (24427) | more than 10 years ago | (#8838883)

Pahroza is seeking donations in order to work on his slashdot article and comment reading skills full time. At present he is able only to skim the articles, and able to read only a portion of the higher rated posts.

Should enough donations be received, he can become a full time slashdot reader, and ensure that all posts and articles are read completely.

Please contact him for details.

donate a bit! (4, Insightful)

medelliadegray (705137) | more than 10 years ago | (#8840474)

seriously,i can understand students with no jobs shying away from donating to fbsd. For everyone else out there, if peeps donated just a bit (either to this guy or the FBSD foundation) then perhaps projects like this could be funded more frequently. just a couple bucks from most people is all it takes.

Re:donate a bit! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845749)

just a couple bucks from most people is all it takes.


I didn't know Kamp could survive on $26 a year

Re:donate a bit! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845941)

Why not donate an entire byte?

Make Apple Pay (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8840751)

They stole FreeBSD and should have to pay for each and every BSD developer. All two of them.

Re:Make Apple Pay (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845697)

They stole FreeBSD and should have to pay for each and every BSD developer. All two of them


Bullshit. You forgot to count Theo, even though he's more of a forker than a developer.

NETCRAFT NOW CONFIRMS: *BSD IS DYING (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8842145)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dbblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Beer-ware (5, Informative)

Piquan (49943) | more than 10 years ago | (#8842165)

A fair bit of phk's code is under the Beer-ware license:

/*
* "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42):
* <phk@FreeBSD.ORG> wrote this file. As long as you retain this notice you
* can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think
* this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return Poul-Henning Kamp
*/

(Some formatting changed for the lameness filter)

In all likelyhood, I'll never meet phk, so I reckon I can donate instead of buying him a beer directly.

Hey fucker here is my donation... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8843089)

... I'll buy a tombstone for BSD instead and you go and get a real job.

Re:Hey fucker here is my donation... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845829)

Nobody wants to hire BSDers, because it's well known that they are losers and sink whatever companies they work for.

I/O out from under Giant lock (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8844515)

The specific goals is to get the entire disk and device I/O path out from under the "Giant" lock. And at the same time untangle as much as possible of the code to make it "future proof".
I don't have any SMP systems you insensitive clod!

Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (2, Insightful)

nutznboltz (473437) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846604)

PHK should be getting corporate funding for doing development work on a feature like SMP which enterprise users would want much more than home users.

Yahoo! got started on FreeBSD and now the news is they are having record profits. Where's the Yahoo! funding? Where's the Apple funding? Where's the corporate funding at all?

Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8856312)

Yahoo is probably funding several of the developers.

Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (1)

EventHorizon (41772) | more than 10 years ago | (#8857260)

A corporation is an amoral entity charged with maximizing the profit of its human owners. While generosity is an admirable human trait, it is not necessarily viable in a corporation. A generous corporation will be replaced by less generous corporations unless that generosity leads to profit.

In the end FOSS needs to make peace with this corporate race to the bottom, and convince the guys and gals with the purse strings that FOSS maximizes shareholder value.

Such a Deal! (4, Insightful)

stox (131684) | more than 10 years ago | (#8844758)

I have been in the unique position of working in close proximity with some incredible programmers over the course of my career. Although I have never worked with PHK, I have been the happy user of some of his work. $66K/year for PHK's time has got to be the deal of the century! Even in our post bubble burst economy.

It's about time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845735)

It's about time the widows of the deceased started panhandling and prostituting themselves.

This should be PHK's motto: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8845853)

If I haven't seen farther, it is by standing the grave of a giant that is BSD.

I think I can help. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846033)

I know a very cheap undertaker who is willing to bury FreeBSD.

Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogant? (0, Flamebait)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 10 years ago | (#8848405)

I quote from his page:

" This is the very best price I'm able to offer on my time, and it only applies for doing FreeBSD work of my own choice.) "

So let me get this straight... he wants someone to pay him a quite large amount of money for 3 to 6 months for doing stuff that HE chooses???!

Sorry pal , but if you're reading this I suggest you land your spaceship and take a walk around on planet earth with the rest of us where you'll
find that people who pay you money expect you to do what THEY tell YOU, NOT the other way around!

Re:Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogan (4, Insightful)

Dunceor (758412) | more than 10 years ago | (#8850092)

That is why you got the choose if you wanna support him... nobody forces you, if you don't like the terms, don't donate! This is pretty much like ever other charity, you pay them money/time/whatever and they choose what to do with it. You still get something out of it because he will put his full time on FreeBSD and that benefits you! I trust him as an old time commiter to choose good stuff to put his time.

Re:Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogan (3, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8857691)

I don't know about you but where I work, the higher paid people are expected to be able to work independently, and not have to be told what to do for each buck they are paid.

Donors are paying him to work on FreeBSD.

He is to do satisfactory work on FreeBSD, and I don't see why he wouldn't - he's going to work on stuff he chooses, so I don't see why he would work on stuff he is crap at.

When you order the Chef's Special in a restaurant of some standing you're not expecting "soup of the day", the Chef usually produces something satisfactory, if not impressive.

Better than 3000 ignorant donors telling him what to do. Think 3000 PHBs.

why the politics?? (-1, Flamebait)

kace (557434) | more than 10 years ago | (#8852429)

Bad idea bringing politics into this discussion. I'm very happy living in the U.S.A. over any of the socialist "utopias" of Europe. At the same time, I don't fault anyone else for living under such a system. (And, from the sound of things, there are more than a few /.ers that ought to move across the pond away from screwed up America.)

I have the greatest regard for PHK and all of his fine work on FreeBSD. I will try hard to get my (big, evil, oppressive) company to contribute.

However, Poul_Henning, I'm afraid that if you ever run for elective office in the U.S.A., you have lost my vote. :)

Re:why the politics?? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#8861977)

There's no politics on his plan page. The political discussion above came into being due to an observation of the differences between US and Denmark tax policies. You are being way too sensitive.

As a libertarian, I long ago realized that most people disagree with me on politics. Even were I a conservative or liberal, there would still be one out of every two people who would disagree with me. Life is about people disagreeing with you. Get over it.

Interview (3, Interesting)

CaptainPinko (753849) | more than 10 years ago | (#8853665)

Maybe in a few weeks someone should have an interview with this guy and maybe it could even make it to the front page? That should get more exposure and if includes a line like we are already 75% of the way there then I'm sure that will help the donatations role in. I suspect that some people are worried about not making the minimum and just having their donation get lost there as opposed to some real important work getting done.

My bet: if the minimum gets met than at least two of the months will go too since it will prove that this works.


Matt Dillon's (dFBSD lead) opinion on this matter (4, Informative)

weekendwarrior1980 (768311) | more than 10 years ago | (#8854810)

From dragonfly.kernel:

:By the way i suppose everyone is aware of the fundraising campaign by
:phk to be able to precisely work on vfs for> FreeBSD-5 (please, i don't know
:if mentioning this name here is kosher, don't flame me ...). By reading his :memo :http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/plan.html
:i cannot refrain remarking some similarities between the work he wants to
:engage into, and your own agenda on vfs. Isn't it appearing as some sort of
:duplication of work in a domain where very unfortunately resources are
:scarce? :
:--
:Michel Talon

I came across that but I really doubt that our visions are even remotely similar. Our work is going to be based on our well tested LWKT stuff. FreeBSD-5 does not have any LWKT stuff, or anything remotely similar to it. It also strikes me odd that it should require money for work to progress. I realize that there are potentially many people who would like to work on open source to the exclusion of their normal jobs, but the meager amounts of money that can be raised by our projects does not come close to replacement income for even a single person. Money also severely skews the governance structure, creating pressures and consequences that can result in a failure of the normal open source peer review process. In fact, I believe this is precisely what has occured in the FreeBSD project, on multiple occassions, in the last few years. -Matt Matthew Dillon

Re:Matt Dillon's (dFBSD lead) opinion on this matt (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8864329)

Does Matt Dillon ever do anything besides bitch and complain? Let's see some of your "wonderful" code, buddy.

Now you can get a Micro$oft job and get paid (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8856382)

like the rest of us.

We all know someone who "used to do bsd"
and after 2 years couldnt give it up.
Its time to throw in the towel and
get a real job doing Microsoft updates.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>