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Playfair Relocates to India

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the taking-pea-out-of-the-pool dept.

Music 334

Lord Grey writes "Imagine my surprise to see playfair 0.5.0 appear on Freshmeat's project list. Remember, the project was pulled after Apple filed a Cease-and-Desist order just a few days ago. playfair's new web site talks a bit about the move, as well as sporting the latest release of the controversial utility."

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FIRST "FUCK ALL COW-HUGGING DOT NIGGERS" POST (-1)

Sexual Asspussy (453406) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846557)

PREVENT MERCATUR.NET FROM RELOCATING TO INDIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846573)

Rumor has it that Alice [mercatur.net] wants to shut down her website. Please help to convince her not to by writing something in her guestbook [mercatur.net] !

She's a nice chick, so show some manners, ok?

Re:PREVENT MERCATUR.NET FROM RELOCATING TO INDIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846599)

I believe she is relocating but I'm sure it just somewhere nearby. The OC will surely miss her. Hugs to Alice.

Re:PREVENT MERCATUR.NET FROM RELOCATING TO INDIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846661)

Who's the OC, is it something like the GNAA?

Re:PREVENT MERCATUR.NET FROM RELOCATING TO INDIA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846675)

We don't have gay niggers in Orange County.

Live ones, anyhow.

Apropos India: (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846596)

Where can I get the lyrics to Punjabi Extreme by Gay Nigger Association of America?

Re:Apropos India: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846683)

Here are the lyrics:

We are boring and produce crappy first posts,
we are boring and produce crappy first posts,
we are boring and produce crappy first posts,
we are boring and produce crappy first posts,

sometimes we're not even first,
sometimes we're not even first,
sometimes we're not even first,
sometimes we're not even first,

we are total failures,
we are total failures,
we are total failures,
we are total failures!

And there's a rapper in the background who keeps repeating the following:

Important Stuff:

Please try to keep posts on topic.
Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

That's not Punjabi Extreme! :-\ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846708)

This [axisproductions.com] is Punjabi Extreme!

But where do I find the lyrics?

Thank you!

Re:That's not Punjabi Extreme! :-\ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846768)

OMG, it really exists. Why not write down the lyrics yourself? Those people are not that hard to understand.

Re:That's not Punjabi Extreme! :-\ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846789)

OMG OMG, there is a cliche jew on that website, you knew that?

What a world! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846558)

Even our "Information Wants to be Free" activists are being outsourced to India!

Moderation pending (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846591)

We'd you moderate as Troll -1, but Slashdot duties moderation were outsourced to India yesterday. The moderation pace will pick up again as soon as our staff English learns. Thank you. Please to come again.

Re:Moderation pending (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846622)

As usual, the service here is impeccable.

Re:Moderation pending (2, Funny)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846719)

Who needs the infinite compassion of Ganesha when you have Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman staring back at you with their dead eyes?

Re:Moderation pending (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846804)

Who needs the infinite compassion of Ganesha when you have Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman staring back at you with their dead eyes?
Krishna's infinite soul. :-) The verse in the soundtrack was from the Bhagavad Gita.

Re:Moderation pending (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846786)

So... Yoda runs an indian tech company now?

Re:What a world! (1)

beaverfever (584714) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846730)

Even our "Information Wants to be Free" activists are being outsourced to India!

Don't you mean 'Even our "Entertainment Wants to be Free" activists are being outsourced to India'?

Re:What a world! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846779)

Don't you mean 'Even our "Entertainment Wants to be Free" activists are being outsourced to India'?
No, I didn't. RTFA. It says "Information Wants to be Free" at the bottom of the goddamn page.

ARRR (-1)

(TK)Max (668795) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846563)

Oh no, I left the skull on other HD...

Fuck you all

-Trollkore

Oh No! (-1)

MrWim (760798) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846566)

[Insert some ill educated outsourcing comment here]

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846567)

fp for Washington University is ON TEH SPOKE!!!

Hey, that's not fair! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846572)

I guess there's one advantage to outsourcing... :-)

Apple the bully (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846575)

Good for them! Great that they are standing up to bullies. Apple deserves nothing but condemnation for threatening frivolous lawsuits against them. There is more "Bill the Borg" in Apple than most people think

Re:Apple the bully (1)

Orgazmus (761208) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846670)

Since Billy owns much of it, you`re completely right

shhhh. keep the Apple secret secret (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846700)

Shhh. You are not supposed to let anyone know that Apple is not a viable company of its own. For years (ever since Microsoft worked hard to help the launch of the Macintosh), it has been a Microsoft "Beard", something Microsoft props up and bails out so there is something else out there, something to blunt the claims that Microsot is a monopoly.

Re:shhhh. keep the Apple secret secret (1)

Raffaello (230287) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846746)

By that tinfoil-hat-wearing theory, MS should have stopped propping up Apple, since MS have been found to be a monopoly by Federal courts, a finding of law which has survived even US Supreme Court review.

No going back now. Under US law, MS _is_ a monopoly. Any "beard" utility of Apple is now gone. So explain to us again why MS would want to maintain a viable alternative OS/hardware-platform choice?

Be sure to don your protective headgear before replying.

Actual monopoly vs legal monopoly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846762)

"No going back now. Under US law, MS _is_ a monopoly"

However, in reality, it is not one. largely due to Apple Macintosh at this time. There is a difference between legal monopoly and actual monopoly, just like there is a difference between legal war and actual war: The Vietnam War, was, legally a "police action" not a war, but we all know it was a war.

Re:Actual monopoly vs legal monopoly. (1)

Bedouin X (254404) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846852)

But of course there are precious few - if any, now that deregulation is running its course - examples of a real monopoly. It's almost as much of a fable as perfect competition.

There are certainly effective monopoloies though.

Re:Apple the bully (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846724)

Apple deserves nothing but condemnation for threatening frivolous lawsuits against them. There is more "Bill the Borg" in Apple than most people think

Corporations are supposed to play by the rules of business, which are laws. "Bill the Borg" routinely broke those rules to get ahead. Apple is not breaking any laws.

Your problem is with the law, so what you are really complaining about is the lawmaking/decision skills of American legislators. So by proxy what you are really mad about is the gullibility and/or apathy of American voters.

If you don't like the US and you live there feel free to move out. Don't presume to tell Apple how to run their business though. That's what the law is for.

There is this little thing called the Constitution (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846743)

"If you don't like the US and you live there feel free to move out. Don't presume to tell Apple how to run their business though."

There is this little thing called the Constitution. Ever hear of the First Amendment? According to it, I can tell Apple whatever I want to, including how to run their business. They don't have to listen, but I can still tell them.

Re:There is this little thing called the Constitut (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846756)

I can tell Apple whatever I want to

And I in turn can tell you to stfu because your complaints are retarded. hth

Re:Apple the bully (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846729)

I would hardly call Apple suing these guys a frivolous lawsuit. Unfortunately, because people lack moral character these days, Fairplay is a necessary evil. Apple doesn't want to use Fairplay, hell, they provide one of the most lenient DRM schemes. But the fact remains that Apple NEEDS Fairplay in order to continue to distribute music. Do you think the record labels would allow Apple to sell music through iTunes without DRM? Do you think the record labels may reconsider Apple's ability to sell music online as a result of Playfair? Apple essentially has to do something about PlayFair or risk losing the iTunes music store.

Besides, Apple already provides an acceptable (By most users and the record labels) method of removing the DRM... burn it to a CD. If you're vain enough to complain about the degradation in sound that results from ripping and re-encoding, you shouldn't be buying anything other than CDs, DVD-Audio, and SACDs.

It is done... (-1)

Steamhead (714353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846577)

They outsourced this to india, think the support will change?

doubt that will last (1)

davidesh (316537) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846579)

doubt that will last too long.
i wouldn't doubt Apple has a lot of money invested in the economy there, call centers and such.

Re:doubt that will last (5, Interesting)

Troed (102527) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846605)

http://freenet.sf.net

This is one of the reasons to use Freenet. Projects should be moved there instead of just off shore to countries with less draconian (yet) laws.

Freenet won't allow realtime CVS checkins, but it'd be impossible to remove the software from it using legal means.

Dupe post, not story (4, Informative)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846584)

This was the 2nd reader post from the original story of PlayFair being pulled. Why is this news?

Re:Dupe post, not story (0)

Lord Grey (463613) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846634)

This was the 2nd reader post from the original story of PlayFair being pulled. Why is this news?
Sorry. I hadn't been awake long enough to post a completely coherent story.

The point of the submission was that Freshmeat is now listing the project again. As was pointed out in the earlier story, Freshmeat had deactivated the project at Apple's request. Or was it listed again before and I just missed that until my first cup of coffee this morning?

Re:Dupe post, not story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846642)

Because people did not have enough time to find a way to blame Microsoft for all this, when the last story was posted.

Re:Dupe post, not story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846766)

> Because people did not have enough time to find a way to blame Microsoft

Microsoft is evil and probably footed the bill for PlayFair. Also, they suck.

Oh dear! My karma is sure going to take a hit for this! Whatever will I do now?

Re:Dupe post, not story (1)

fdobbie (226067) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846825)

You're new here, aren't you?

Check out the sarovar.org statistics... (2, Interesting)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846602)

...in 4 days playfair has gone to second place on their download counter [sarovar.org] . Jeepers.

Sarovar will be moving higher on the list of GForge sites [gforge.org] pretty soon... they're # 12 currently...

Re:Check out the sarovar.org statistics... (2, Funny)

Walkiry (698192) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846733)

>> ...in 4 days playfair has gone to second place on their download counter. Jeepers.

After your post in slashdot the download counter is now #1 in the download counter webpage. What a world...

Except for that "Could not connect to the database" thingy that is.

Re:Check out the sarovar.org statistics... (1)

Slowtreme (701746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846737)

In the ~5 days it was listed on sourceforge it was the #4 top downloaded project when it got pulled.

This was the first (sensible) post in response (3, Funny)

kubrick (27291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846609)

to the previous Playfair story, but it took the editors 3 days to post a front page story about it?

Guess it's true they can't be bothered reading the site -- maybe they should outsource their duties.

Re:This was the first (sensible) post in response (1)

jamie (78724) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846770)

Anyone could say they were hosting Playfair. Its moving wasn't news, in my opinion, until its code actually appeared on the new site.

Re:This was the first (sensible) post in response (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846866)

I downloaded binaries and source from the site that day, I'm pretty sure. (On the 'you never know if the site will go down again' principle.)

Anyway, as an open source project, whoever picks up the torch, works on the source and provides a download could be considered a host, especially with code that is illegal in one country or another -- you can understand why any one group of people might not want to be too closely associated with the codebase.

For Once I don't Agree (4, Insightful)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846610)

For once I don't agree with something like this and it's Playfair. Apple works with open source and even uses it in it operating system. They use the DRM to appease the recording companies. They were able and did negotiate the best possible license to download the music. They charge what they are charged per song ($.99). Granted they are no super nice guy and are still in for the profit, but they try and I have yet to find a time where I would need to strip out the DRM unless to share with the masses.

It's like picking a friends pocket.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846656)

They were able and did negotiate the best possible license to download the music.

$0.99 may be the best they could negotiate, but it's not the best price by far. At $0.99 a track it makes more sense to go out and buy the CD. Call me when you can pick up tracks for a dime or a quarter and I'll think about it.

Fuck fanboys (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846669)

Just because you like Apple computers doesn't mean you have to go to bat for every half-wit business scheme they get into. There's nothing in the EULA for OS X saying you have to support RIAA/DRM/DCMA bullshit.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (2, Insightful)

pe1rxq (141710) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846672)

I have yet to find a time where I would need to strip out the DRM unless to share with the masses.

You seem to suffer from a lack of imagination...
How about playing the files on non apple hardware such as a portable mp3 player? Or even to burn it to cd and play it in your car?
What if you were searching for hidden messages and wanted to play it backwards? (I don't know for sure, but I don't think apple currently lets you do that) Or play it on your network-enabled-but-not-approved-by-apple-home-ste reo.

Jeroen

Re:For Once I don't Agree (2, Insightful)

nonmaskable (452595) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846713)

I'm no fan of DRM, but when you agree to Apple's TOS for their service, you agree to get screwed by their restrictions.

This is copyright violation.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (2, Insightful)

shunnicutt (561059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846747)

I'm no fan of DRM, but when you agree to Apple's TOS for their service, you agree to get screwed by their restrictions.

This is copyright violation.

This is only copyright violation is you take these unencrypted tunes and give them to other people. Until then, this is not copyright violation.

Of course, it remains that using PlayFair is a violation of the DMCA.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

Lussarn (105276) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846757)

Can you explain how this could possibly be copyright violation. It's a chunk of code, that what it is.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

nonmaskable (452595) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846806)

Sorry - I didn't make myself clear. It's software with the purpose of facilitating violation of copyright and Apple's TOS.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846764)

"How about playing the files on non apple hardware such as a portable mp3 player?"

Sure I can play it on my ipod.

"Or even to burn it to cd and play it in your car?"

I burn cds from them all the time. No problem. iTunes itself lets you make the list and burn the cd.

"What if you were searching for hidden messages and wanted to play it backwards?"

To be honest I don't do this. I listen to my music, not search for some message in it or play it backwards.

"Or play it on your network-enabled-but-not-approved-by-apple-home-ste reo."

I wouldn't buy a reciever that didn't handle it.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

naden (206984) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846803)

How about playing the files on non apple hardware such as a portable mp3 player?

Burn the iTMS music to a CD then rip again to MP3. Oh but the quality drops .. hello MP3 is lossy to begin with. And I'm sure if your a true audiophile you would be buying normal CDs to begin with.

Or even to burn it to cd and play it in your car?

Have you even used iTMS ? You can do that now already.

What if you were searching for hidden messages and wanted to play it backwards?

See first point.

Or play it on your network-enabled-but-not-approved-by-apple-home-ste reo.

Fair enough. But again see first point.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846673)

I would need to strip the DRM so that I can play the AAC files on Rythumbox on Linux, and share the library with iTunes on Windows...

Re:For Once I don't Agree (0, Redundant)

jareds (100340) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846678)

I have yet to find a time where I would need to strip out the DRM unless to share with the masses.

Suppose your main computer (that you play music on) runs Linux but you have a spare Windows machine or Mac that you can use with iTunes. Gee, that scenario was terribly hard to think up.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

naden (206984) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846777)

Suppose your main computer (that you play music on) runs Linux but you have a spare Windows machine or Mac that you can use with iTunes. Gee, that scenario was terribly hard to think up.

Fair enough. But seriously put yourself in Steve Job's shoes and please enlighten us all with an alternative.

The fact is it is because of Apple that we have the recording industries coming on board with a DRM policy that is about as unrestrictive as it gets.

The percentage of people with two computers, one with Linux another with Windows or Mac has to pale into insignificance compared to the broader general music buying population.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (5, Interesting)

shunnicutt (561059) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846716)

It's only picking a friend's pocket if I take my unencrypted iTunes and give them to others. Until I do that, it's no less morally wrong than storing my DVDs on my hard drive with DeCSS for my personal use.

In fact, as soon as I confirmed that PlayFair worked, I celebrated by purchasing $11 worth of music at the iTunes Music Store, which I then promptly stripped of all DRM, and I'll be buying more in the future now that I know that all I have to do is back my files up and I'll have this music for the rest of my life, regardless of what happens to Apple.

So I've actually put money in my friend's pocket.

The one place that Apple's DRM failed me was at the office. My office mates and I share our music libraries, and they weren't able to access my protected music. Yet Apple provides music sharing for the other music I've purchased and ripped from CDs. If it is fair use for my ripped music, it should be fair use for my protected music as well. I don't understand the distinction.

The only law I'm breaking is the DMCA, and my karma (the karma that Jobs refers to) will be just fine, because the DMCA is a bad law that I'm convinced will eventually be struck down. To say that I have fair use of my music, but that I can't use the tools to get that fair use is to say that I don't have fair use at all.

I'll continue to purchase music from iTMS. I'll continue to use PlayFair. I'll continue to pay for my music and get the use out of it that I am entitled to.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846830)

Funny thing is, I believe iTunes used to allow you to share all your music, including purchased music, with whomever you wanted. Of course, some fucking "information wants to be free" zealot decided to modify iTunes and provide a plugin that allowed a user to easily steal/download music from that shared library. As a result, Apple made the sharing a hell of a lot more strict because they HAD too. Just another example of a few shortsighted assholes ruining things for the rest of us.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

J.L. Strait (208812) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846717)

How about being able to use visualisations when playing them in WinAmp, or burning an Audio CD without crashing (about 1/2 the time I try to burn a CD in iTunes, it screws up so bad I have to reboot).

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846791)

" How about being able to use visualisations when playing them in WinAmp"

iTunes has visulizations too.

"burning an Audio CD without crashing (about 1/2 the time I try to burn a CD in iTunes, it screws up so bad I have to reboot)."

Something is obviously wrong with your system or iTunes install. Why not fix the problem. What if winamp were crashing all the time. Would you not fix that install.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846723)

As unobtrusive as fairplay may seem, it does have it's shortcomings.

What this utility allows is someone to transfer the music they bought to a non "apple sanctioned" platform. It allows for someone to play this music on Linux, or other portable music players.

I hardly think this will encourage sharing of AAC music with the masses, as it is just as easy to rip a CD of the same music and share that with the masses. And there is a lot more music available via the CD than download at Apple's website.

So this utility does have it's applications, and they are not all illegal.

It's unfortunate that the bastard DMCA anti-circumvention clause has made anything useful "evil".

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846820)

"What this utility allows is someone to transfer the music they bought to a non "apple sanctioned" platform. It allows for someone to play this music on Linux, or other portable music players."

Transfering from one compressed form to another degrades the quality. To keep the quality as high as possible the best way is to burn it then rip it as something else. A little more time and the price of a cd but the quality is better.

Re:For Once I don't Agree (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846809)

> It's like picking a friends pocket.

No, in fact it's nothing like picking a friends pocket. I'd use Playfair - like i use Soulseek, Kazaa etc - but i'd never *steal* from anyone, where stealing is defined as `taking something from someone such that they cannot use what they've paid for until I give it back`, not `making an identical copy of something`, which can more accurately be labelled `copying`.

If you think copying and stealing are the same then no doubt you call a photocopier a `soul stealer` or something, right?

Re:For Once I don't Agree (1)

mst76 (629405) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846857)

Apple's DRM is not only there to stop the music from spreading to the P2P networks, but also to tie you to Apple hardware. Suppose you like iTMS so much that you buy $1000 worth of songs in, say the next 3 years. Suppose that your eMac breaks then and would costs a lot to repair. Maybe at that time PCs are very good value. Can you easily switch the the PC without losing your music collection?

RIAA sucks. (2, Insightful)

digitalunity (19107) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846624)

But probably not for the reasons you would think. Apple is probably under contract to release the music under DRM only. The sad thing is they would probably make more money if they just sold MP3's. People would probably steal less too. I know the RIAA has an antiquated business model and they probably deserve to go into the toilet, but I do feel sorry for them.

If they would just stop trying to oppress the music listeners and just satisfy them, maybe they would do a little better.

Corporations should no by now, just telling someone not to do something makes them want to do it more. If they sold MP3's, more people would take their complaints more seriously.

It is impossible to steal less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846665)

"money if they just sold MP3's. People would probably steal less too"

It is impossible to steal less, as the theft rate is 0. It is technically impossible to steal music by copying it, downloading off of p2p, or anything like this.

Re:RIAA sucks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846877)

I know the RIAA has an antiquated business model and they probably deserve to go into the toilet, but I do feel sorry for them.

C'mon, this is no place for sympathy when it comes to things that suck.

There is only one solution to things that suck: annihilation.

The joys of outsourcing (1)

shamir_k (222154) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846630)

So I guess there are advantages to outsourcing beyond plain old poverty alleviation in third world countries. But I wonder how long it will be before the US uses the WTO to push "intellectual property rights" down the throats of Indians?

err (1)

manavendra (688020) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846638)

is that bad? IMO, it's development only advances the core principle (information wants to be free - read that in caps please as the website says).

Or is that bad those outsourcing heathens in India are doing open source work as well? ;-)

No good can come of this (5, Insightful)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846639)

This was exactly the wrong thing to do.

Rather than working with Apple to try to resolve their differences, whomever is responsible for this little hack (the person or persons responsible refuse to attach their name to their work or their collateral) decided to just slip through what many perceive as a loophole in the law.

This does nothing to legitimize the hack or the idea behind it. Rather, it does just the opposite: it makes it clear to all interested parties that the person or persons behind this are more interested in finding ways to subvert the system than working within it to improve it.

Apple's support for "fair use" [slashdot.org] is obvious. They specifically added features to iMovie, iDVD, and iPhoto that allow you to use purchased or ripped music in your own media projects, even if the tracks you want to use are protected by FairPlay.

Doing this kind of end-run around Apple, instead of working with them to come to a resolution, completely de-legitimizes the whole effort for me, and I'm sure for many others.

If you want to assume the moral high ground--"I don't believe the majority of the people who use my program will use it so that they can share their files on Kazaa."--then you'd damn well better stick to it, instead of cutting and running for the sewer at the first sign of trouble.

Dumb, dumb.

Re:No good can come of this (4, Insightful)

mst76 (629405) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846710)

> Rather than working with Apple to try to resolve their differences,

The purpose of Playfair is simple and clear: to strip the encryption from a Fairplay protected AAC file. What kind of resolution did you have in mind, other than stopping the development/distribution of Playfair?

Re:No good can come of this (0, Flamebait)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846784)

Use your imagination.

What about the facility to burn MP3 CD's from protected AAC tracks? Right now we can burn audio CD's, but to folks with car stereos with MP3-CD support, plain old audio CD's aren't as cool.

Yes, you could pop the MP3-CD in any computer and pull the MP3's off, but the same is true of an audio CD: it can be re-ripped to any format.

The point is, the Playfair person or persons never sat down and said, "Here's what I want to be able to do. I do not want to enable people to pirate iTunes music, nor do I want to break the law. What's the solution?"

Come on, man. You'd imagine that anybody who could create something like Playfair must be at least fairly bright. A person like that should jump at the chance to solve that kind of tricky, complex problem.

Brute-forcing an illegal solution is neither elegant, nor impressive. It's just lame. Taking it off-shore to avoid legal entanglements is both lame and cowardly.

Re:No good can come of this (5, Insightful)

mrwiggly (34597) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846728)

Rather than working with Apple to try to resolve their differences, whomever is responsible for this little hack (the person or persons responsible refuse to attach their name to their work or their collateral) decided to just slip through what many perceive as a loophole in the law.

You are foolish to believe that apple would allow fairplay to be distributed under any conditions, and your classification of 'little hack' shows your bias.

This has nothing to do with apple, itunes, or ipod. This is all fair use vs. DMCA.

Re:No good can come of this (2, Insightful)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846822)

This has nothing to do with apple, itunes, or ipod. This is all fair use vs. DMCA.

No. Wrong. Totally wrong.

It's not about engaging a fight, or even a debate, on fair use vs. the DMCA. If that were the case, the person or persons responsible for this would have stood their ground and made an argument.

We have a system for dealing with bad laws. These laws are challenged in court, and a judge or panel of judges decides whether the law should continue to apply, be narrowed in scope, or be stricken entirely from the books. Did the Playfair... what do you call it? Organization? Whatever. Did the Playfair Dude engage that system? Did they raise the level of debate, or seek restitution in a court?

No.

They ran and hid. They slipped through a loophole into the dank, seamy underbelly of the Internet. (No offense to the Indians who are hosting the project. I don't mean the site; I mean the behavior.)

The Playfair Dude did precisely what you'd expect an trafficker in illegal goods to do.

And that was a dumb-ass mistake.

Re:No good can come of this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846859)

Considering the track record of the US "justice" system, releasing such a piece of software anonymously makes perfect sense to me. Even when you believe you are on the right side.
You know what would come of it if they published their names: computers siezed, bad press (copying whatever they read in the RIAA press release about it), resulting in loss of job, etc. Even if they win - which will be a four, five year battle if not longer, it is never worth the hassle. Unless you are an absolute idealist, who is willing to give everything for their beliefs. Including their life.

Wouter.

Re:No good can come of this (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846865)

FUCK APPLE

Re:No good can come of this (1)

770291 (770291) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846882)

Apple's support for "fair use" is obvious.

So I suppose that Apple's interpretation of fair use is the only correct one?

I, for one, welcome our new fair-use overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a respected member of the slashdot community, I can be helpful in rounding up others who think they have the right to decide for themselves where their fair use rights lie.

Re:No good can come of this (1)

linuxtelephony (141049) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846888)

This does nothing to legitimize the hack or the idea behind it. Rather, it does just the opposite: it makes it clear to all interested parties that the person or persons behind this are more interested in finding ways to subvert the system than working within it to improve it.

Not that I agree with what they are doing (for the record, I don't -- Apple appears to have made allowances for measured fair play), how is subverting the system instead of working within it different than any other kind of activism.

To take an extreme example, during the Civil Rights Movement time of the US, especially the South, there were laws that were bent on controlling one group of people. To fight against those laws, several people tried a variety of approaches. Even the peaceful marches were against those laws. They were clearly violating those laws in an effort to subvert the system of the time.

When the concept of fair use was created, it did not have any limits. So, some could argue that even measured fair use is not enough. Kind of like measured freedom, you can walk the street based on the schedule we dictate, but during that time your free to do as you wish as long as you don't violate any laws. I can see why some would be against this.

As I said, Apple has clearly stepped up to the plate and is providing a carefully thought out service to walk a fine line between those that want downloadable music and those that seek to squash it. For that effort, Apple should be commended and supported.

As I understand it, even Apple's DRM has the ability to be burned to CD. That means the CD can then be played anywhere, and that people can create their MP3s from that CD, as they would with any other CD. So, why is this needed again?

About the _ONLY_ thing I see this being useful for, is the case of someone buying music in the US, moving outside of the license area, and having their paid for music stop working. There was a story similar to that before on slashdot, though I believe the details, when they fully came out, came out in Apple's favor. That doesn't mean they always will. So, in an effort to stop paid for music from no longer working, yes, I suppose I can see value in removing the DRM for backups. But I also believe Apple addressed this issue, to some degree, back when that previous story came out.

The only thing I see here is that this is a slap in the face to Apple.

If they fail in India, there are other places.... (4, Insightful)

Omega1045 (584264) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846664)

I think this is a pretty good example of how silly laws like the DMCA only restrict commerce in their own country. If India shuts this project down, how many other places could this be hosted? Many.

How does that song from the Disney ride go again? Oh ya, "Its a small world after all..."

will they survive india ? (1)

digitalsurgeon (629388) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846674)

i think they will be bugged again by Apple and maybe the indian government will help apple, since india is cashing in a lot on out sourcing and they will not be willing to get themselves a bad name. it's wud have been better if they out sourced to cuba ;-)

Re:will they survive india ? (2, Insightful)

I confirm I'm not a (720413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846732)

You raise an interesting point - what would happen in the US to an application developed largely in Cuba? I can't see most European countries having a problem with it, except indirectly (can't be partners with US companies because you use Cuban products -- can they still do that?) but how would it play in the US?

The point of this is ? (5, Insightful)

naden (206984) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846676)

Umm .. if people are using Fairplay to remove the DRM from their iTMS bought songs then guess which format they'll end up with: AAC.

Now imagine if those said people start distributing those AAC across the P2P networks. Guess which player is commonly associated with reading AAC files: iTunes.

Which may in turn drive those people to use iTMS for those songs they can't get off the networks. Now these people have all these AAC files, which device is commonly associated with AAC support: iPod.

So it seems like either way Apple wins ?

Re:The point of this is ? (1)

KingJoshi (615691) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846838)

The point is not to stick it to Apple or "the Man", but remove DRM from the music. What is so hard to understand about that?

Re:The point of this is ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846860)

AAC is playable in ANY media player. You just download the appropriate codec.

I would think most people would first try to download the appropriate codec for windows and use their existing media player before they went to download iTunes.

Now.. whether they go and buy an iPod or not is their own (expensive) business, but I'll remind you that AAC is the official audio codec of MPEG-4 and many players are able to play it back. All future players, if they're made with modern components, will be able to play back AAC files.

So... wrong!

Sarovar (1, Interesting)

andy1307 (656570) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846677)

Sarovar means lake(i think). Is there a hidden meaning in this?

Laws may be different in another country. (4, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846679)


This comment discusses some of the issues of sending work to another country: It is successful? Is it successful over 20 years? [slashdot.org] Those who outsource to another country should not assume that the laws of another country are the same as the home country, as the PlayFair author demonstrates.

I agree with the PlayFair author: "I want to be able to play the music I buy wherever I want to play it without quality loss, since I PAID FOR that quality."

Treating everyone as dishonest because some people are dishonest is abusive.

Nevertheless, moving PlayFair to another country to escape the domination of the rich, government-corrupting interests in this country shows one of the issues of outsourcing.

Re:Laws may be different in another country. (1)

naden (206984) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846735)

I agree with the PlayFair author: "I want to be able to play the music I buy wherever I want to play it without quality loss, since I PAID FOR that quality."

How about burning your bought music to a CD.

Oh wait you want it without the DRM .. please do explain why ?

The DRM in Apple's case seems only to stop mass distribution of the music, which seems quite fair to me.

You have to remember there is an alternative if you don't like Apple's rules, don't play by them: BUY A CD FROM A SHOP.

Nevertheless, moving PlayFair to another country to escape the domination of the rich, government-corrupting interests in this country shows one of the issues of outsourcing.

WTF does this have to do with anything ?

See Zealots Attack for an excellent explanation. (4, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846861)


Remember, DRM is keeping control of a product after it is sold. It's like signing a contract that the seller can change at any time in a way that is bad for you and "good" for the seller.

See Zealots Attack [nanocrew.net] for an excellent explanation about why PlayFair should be allowed, from the man who wrote the library PlayFair uses:

Zealots attack

I've been getting some emails from angry Mac zealots. Many of them start out similar to this:
Sorry to say this but, unlike with DeCSS where you were allowing Linux users to view DVDs, this time you've gone too far.
None of them explain how this is different and why GNU/Linux users should not be allowed to play legally bought music. Instead they go on to rave about how great iTMS is and that the imposed DRM is a good compromise. If they hadn't been completely clueless about copyright law, they'd know that Fair Use is the compromise. Some of them claim that this will lead to the RIAA imposing stricter DRM. Did they suddenly realize that it's the RIAA, and not Apple, which determines the rules for the iTMS DRM? When they complain about Microsoft's DRM used by other music stores, why do they think that it's Microsoft, and not the RIAA, which determines the DRM rules?

They have failed to understand that by buying into DRM they have given the seller complete control over the product after it's been sold. The RIAA can at any time change the DRM rules, and considering their history it's likely that they will when the majority of consumers have embraced DRM and non-DRM products have been phased out. Some DVDs today include commercials which can't be skipped using "sanctioned" players. If the RIAA forces Apple to include commercials, what excuses will the Mac zealots come up with? "It's a good compromise"?

Here's how one of the emails, from a guy in the UK who's working on his Ph.D, ends:
You may think you're doing the right thing "liberating music for one and all" but you really aren't. Thanks for fucking it up for all of us, asshole. I hope Apple, the RIAA and the BPI come down hard on your ass now that the EUCD and DMCA are in place.
Funny stuff. I just hope I have enough room in /dev/null.

Yuo fail Dit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846702)

ultimate7y/, we And arms and dick irc network. The

Shows many peoples true colors (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846727)

For years people have been justifying the "illegal" copying of music with arguments such as "the cd is overpriced", "I don't want to pay $17 for one or two songs", etc. Now Apple comes out with a service that addresses many of these issues. They allow you to purchase just the songs you want for a decent cost. They have a flexible DRM policy (without which they wouldn't even be able to offer the service to begin with). Now guys like this come along and still insist on continuing the copying tradition. The excuses now get even thinner. Basically they have no moral leg to stand on.

Worst part is that this just adds fuel to the RIAA fire. They view all sharers as a bunch of crooks, and why not? Basically people are saying "We don't give a crap about copyright laws and your rights to have control over your content, oh, but do something against OUR policies (i.e. GPL) and we'll be first in line crying about "when are you going to release the source!! why are you taking advantage of the hard work of others for your own purposes".

But it is a kludge! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846808)

"They have a flexible DRM policy (without which they wouldn't even be able to offer the service to begin with). Now guys like this come along and still insist on continuing the copying tradition"

But it is a kludge: it requires burning to a CD and then re-ripping in order to get a useable "file.

To play on my digital music hardware, I have to burn to CD and re-rip: or use something like Playfair", which is a lot simpler.

Playfair makes fair use possible. Apple's DRM policies have up until now made it tough.

""We don't give a crap about copyright laws and your rights to have control over your content"

If it is on my machine, it is my content.

Re:Shows many peoples true colors (3, Insightful)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846844)

They have a flexible DRM policy (without which they wouldn't even be able to offer the service to begin with).

How do I play encumbered files on my Tivo home media player?

How do I play them at work on my Linux box, even if they're streaming off my iPod?

Thieves are thieves, if they hadn't purchased the songs in the first place they wouldn't need this utility, and there's plenty of files in sharing anyways. People use the iTunes store for convenience, and quality fast downloads. Sharing cracked iTunes files is kind of silly, frankly, because you're definitely not gonna have the same ease-of-use and quick-downloadability that makes the itms worth the 'premium'.

Saw it on Screensavers... (-1, Offtopic)

fildo (683072) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846739)

TechTV beat Slashdot to this headline. Old news... (yawn).

After India DVD parties! (1)

MrIrwin (761231) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846752)

I think it is time the RIAA realised that the more they try and tie up music, the more they will send it underground and out of thier control.

Downloading is convinient for broadband users and reduces instances of CD swapping (still popular amonst people with dial-up). If downloading becomes awkward, I see a rise in the popularity of DVD swapping.

Jobs predicted this (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8846790)

Read Jobs interviews on this. Jobs predicted and expected this. From the way he talks about it I think that he believes that eventually the recording industry will be shown that it is useless to keep pursuing this "protection" of the music through technology. He has made it clear that he doesn't think it is going to succeed.

To be clear, he believes that iTunes, and stores like it. Will primarily succeed because they provide a better experience than P2P for a reasonable cost. The DRM is something that's in there only to appease the RIAA.

And, irony of ironies... (2, Funny)

Tuxedo Jack (648130) | more than 10 years ago | (#8846870)

We seem to have served a cease-and-desist operation on their server.
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