×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

XOrg Foundation Opens Membership and Elections

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the come-join-up dept.

X 197

XOrg Foundation writes "To active developers and users of the X Window System:You are invited to join and help shape the direction of the new X.Org Foundation. Membership in the X.Org Foundation is now open and free.Applications for membership are sought from all contributors to the X and Desktop communities." Read more below for the rest of the information from the foundation.

The Interim Board of directors has established that examples of acceptable
contributions that will qualify you for membership in the Foundation include
coding, bug-fixing, testing, design, documentation, translation,
administration or maintenance of project-wide resources, speaking at
conferences, and supporting bugzilla or release management.

Should you wish to apply for free membership in the X.Org Foundation, then
please visit:

http://www.x.org/XOrg_Foundation_Membership.html

All Members are eligible for election to the Board of Directors and the
Architecture Group of the XOrg Foundation. The XOrg Foundation is now
seeking nominations for candidates for election to these groups.

Nominations for each election are open until 23.59 PDT on Friday 30th April
2004 for those Members of the X.Org Foundation who wish to stand for
election. You may nominate yourself for election. You may not nominate any
other member.

There will be 8 people elected to each of the Board of Directors and the
Architecture Group. In this first year of the X.Org Foundation, the four
candidates polling the most votes in each election will be granted a two
year term of office (until June 2006), and the next four candidates will
receive 1 year term of office (until June 2005). In subsequent years, four
seats of each group will be re-elected in the annual elections.

It is permissible for a candidate to stand for election for both the Board
of Directors and the Architecture Group.

The responsibilities of an elected person are detailed in the current
Bylaws of the X.Org Foundation, which can be found at:

http://www.x.org/XOrg_ByLaws_17Sep03.pdf

In addition, an elected person will be required to attend the annual
meeting of the X.Org Foundation, which will be held a location determined
in advance by the Board of Directors.

Should you wish to enter your candidacy for these elections, then please
prepare a personal statement of up to 200 words that can be provided to
prospective voters. This statement, and the statement of contribution to
the X.Org Foundation (which you completed when applying for membership)
will be made available to all voters to help them make their voting
decisions.

Once you have completed your personal statement, then you may visit:

http://www.x.org/member/XOrg_Foundation_Election_N omination.tpl

to enter your candidacy for the X.Org Foundation elections.

We look forward to your membership and candidacy submissions,

The Interim Board
X.Org Foundation."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

197 comments

Great... (-1, Flamebait)

strictnein (318940) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903834)

I always find it exciting to hear about groups of people electing each other and slapping each other on the back.

What exciting news. And how about they do a better job formatting the post? What was with all the line breaks?

Re:Great... (1)

thegrommit (13025) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903888)

I always find it exciting to hear about groups of people electing each other and slapping each other on the back.

I guess the line breaks broke your concentration. You are only allowed to nominate yourself, and only if you're a contributor to X (as opposed to Y).

Re:Great... (0, Offtopic)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903922)

And how about they do a better job formatting the post? What was with all the line breaks?

I'm both relieved and alarmed to see that they don't have their $TERMINFO set correctly either. I wonder if their backspace keys work?

Re:Great... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903958)

There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the maples
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream 'Oppression!'
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
'The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light'
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe and saw

dude (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903840)

I cant remember the url.. got to stpo these bong things...

I registered, (3, Funny)

nevek (196925) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903842)

Nevek For Governor!!

Whats an xwindows system?

Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903914)

Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos!

line breaks (-1, Offtopic)

Coderstop (701079) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903844)

I love
the way the
post uses line
breaks.

Haiku Breaks (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903886)

I think you meant:

the line breaks used in
t' f'ing a'ticle were
a bit excessive

-theGreater Hack-u.

Re:Haiku Breaks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904207)

Unfortunately
Yours is not a real haiku;
Yours is senryu.

To be a haiku,
natural imagery must
set the verse's scene.

Re:Haiku Breaks (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904343)

You mean something like this?

Like storm-tossed forests,
cluttered and impsassable:
Those line breaks just suck.

Re:Haiku Breaks (2, Funny)

theGreater (596196) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904489)

That is why I signed
My miserable attempt
theGreater HACK-u

As you can see I
Made no real attempt toward
Actual haiku.

Re:Haiku Breaks (1)

zhenlin (722930) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904616)

While true, it still isn't really Haiku. High-grade Haiku is usually composed of two separate parts, with the final line linking together the two. For instance:


An old pond!
A frog jumps in-
the sound of water.

(This is a translation. Don't expect it to retain the original syllable count)

Deprecate Haiku for Limerick [phenry.org] -- it has some good information about what a Haiku is supposed to be.

ph33r!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903849)

ph33r Xorg, the Destroyer!!

Re:ph33r!! (0, Offtopic)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903944)

naw, XFree86 is the destroyer of worlds, Xorg is the exiled bastard prince!!

Frost Spit (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903853)

I hope we get an enhanced graphical environment

this is got to be good news

Frost Spit!!

Yea! I'm gonna join... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903859)

right after I join the FSF. I have that scheduled for the 12th of never.

What the fuck? (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903869)

Is there a reason this is formatted like some dipshit's livejournal?

Re:What the fuck? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903929)

Hemos is only pretending to be an editor. A real editor would reformat the post to look good. Perhaps Slashdot should call them "approvers" rather than "editors". All they do is update a flag in the database and don't give a rat's ass about how it looks, the spelling/grammar, etc. When you boil it down, all they do is "flag it". So I guess Hemos is a flaggit, which should come as no surprise to anyone.

Re:What the fuck? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904149)

Yes, the reason is something called "X Windows".

great for pickup factor (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903870)

well helllloooo ladies, I'm a member of X.org...

OMFG (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903883)

You are teh stud!!

Re:OMFG (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903985)

Hey, now, baby
Well, I like your smile
Won't you come and talk to me
For a little while?

Well, you're makin' me crazy
The way you roll them eyes
Won't you come and sit with me?
I'll tell you all my lies

[Chorus:]
Hey, baby, it's a quarter to eight
I feel I'm in the mood
Hey baby, the hour is late
I feel I've got to move

Well, hey, now, baby
Don't you talk so fast
I'm just tryin' to make these good times
I'm tryin' to make it last

Everything's getting hazy
Now honey, where'd you go?
I just want to find out, baby...
Where'd you learn what you know?

[Chorus]

Well, hey, now, baby
I said I like your style
You really got me, baby
Way down deep inside

Ooh, you drive me crazy
Baby, you're the one
I just want to rock and roll you woman
Until the night is gone

Re:great for pickup factor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904015)

My wife thinks it's something to do with Intarweb pr0n :-(

Would that make you on of the X men? (2, Funny)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904108)

And do you get a funky rubber suit and a cool name?
"Anonymo" or something?

Re:Would that make you on of the X men? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904299)

well if i had a rubber suit id be late.x man

What ever happened to simple OS? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903876)

Why must we have elections, and official positions? Just open source it, and let the community decide what's best for the project.

Re:What ever happened to simple OS? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903909)

then what kind of positions would you suggest?

missonary (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904027)

doggy style (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904260)

doggy style

Re:What ever happened to simple OS? (5, Insightful)

lurwas (518856) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903910)

Elections and official positions are decided by the community itself. It's called a democratic process.
Hey, it even works sometimes ;)

X.org election sponsored by Diebold E-Voting (4, Funny)

norculf (146473) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903878)

Seriously I hope they have a more reliable system than that.

Re:X.org election sponsored by Diebold E-Voting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903911)

Yes, they do. They are using Majordomo. Everyone knows that there is no way to stuff the ballot box when you use an open mailing list.

Re:X.org election sponsored by Diebold E-Voting (3, Funny)

nacturation (646836) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903963)

They are using Majordomo. Everyone knows that there is no way to stuff the ballot box when you use an open mailing list.

At least it beats Diebold's system which appears to run on Majordumbass.

-1 Redundant and I don't care (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903882)

I'm watching the SCO stock price massacre live [yahoo.com].

Re:-1 Redundant and I don't care (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903937)

The 2 and 5 year graphs are more illuminating. Over 5 years Sco's rapid rise is nothing more than a speed bump on the road to eventual death.

Re:-1 Redundant and I don't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904055)

Yeah, I usually follow the 2 year graph but it's today that the stock is expected to plummet after's Baystar's recent announcement.

Re:-1 Redundant and I don't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904185)

What announcement is that? I have SCO turned off in my preferences; I couldn't keep up with the barrage of shit..

Re:-1 Redundant and I don't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903974)

Thanks. that's pretty interesting.

Why? (3, Interesting)

mtenhagen (450608) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903885)

Does anyone know why they are doing this?

Whas the organisation failing apart and they are desperate for new members?
Or are they financially healthy and want to grow bigger this way?

Re:Why? (1)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904024)

Because more members and contributors means faster development of the X window system?

Come on, isn't this common sense?

mod that guy ^ up (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904034)

Wish I had some points to bump you up (mainly don't because I'm not signed up to mod ...), so you get a reply instead.

Re:Why? (5, Interesting)

vossman77 (300689) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904135)

My understanding is that Keith Packard (had guy right now) had griefs over the approx. lifetime membership in the xfree86 project. The xfree86 blocked new developers from coming on and kept old uninterested developers onteh staff. Keith wanted the whole system to be more open and that is why he forked. This is his method for the new system.

Re:Why? (1, Informative)

KingOfBLASH (620432) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904305)

There were some articles about this on /. [google.com]. Basically, the guy in charge of the XFree86 project decided to change the license terms from GPL to something which was very inconvinient for most distros. Up until this point, X.org was just a discussion group of "What should we do with XFree86"? Because XFree86 was now non free, they forked the project when it was last under the GPL, and now are looking for members to develop the newest incarnation of the X window system.

This is informative? (5, Informative)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904493)

Uh, XFree86 has never been GPLed or LGPLed. It's under an MIT/X11 license variant since it's inception- I know, I had to license code modifications to the Utah-GLX source base under that license. What transpired was that the guy in charge of the XFree86 project changed the license to more of a BSD-ish license that requires advertising, etc. This made the newly licensed version incompatible on a licensing level with any GPLed OS- you can use it, you just can't distribute the new version of XFree86 with a Linux distribution without the prospects of possible legal hassles, etc.

This reminds me of a Nigerian scam email (3, Funny)

Slashdot Hivemind (763065) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903887)

I think it's the personal addressing and the crap formatting. Are all the modalities assured in this risk free venture?

Re:This reminds me of a Nigerian scam email (2, Funny)

Ctrl-Z (28806) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904011)

Crap formatting? It's text. You know, words arranged in a collection to form sentences, in turn arranged to form paragraphs? This sort of thing existed before the Internet.

Re:This reminds me of a Nigerian scam email (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904147)


Stop using lynx.

Get a real browser,
a real monitor and
a real graphics card
and join the 21st
century to see what
all the fuss is about.

Forks (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903891)

Aren't there quite a few forks of XFree86 at this point? Shouldn't we be worried about fragmentation? How can you develop for Linux if you now have to worry about the graphic subsystem as well?

(First Post?!?)

Re:Forks (1)

johannesg (664142) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904395)

There is no need to worry. All implementations of X use the same protocol to communicate with their clients, thus they are all compatible with each other.

You _might_ want to worry about fragmentation in the driver space though, especially with all those binary-only drivers...

Re:Forks (0)

jimicus (737525) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904424)

Not very easily. Particularly if you're a graphics card vendor (unless all the forks can collaborate to produce a standard driver ABI).

With any luck the same X server will be chosen as the default by most distributions, eliminating the problem in the mainstream.

I claim the position of XOrg Fuhrer (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903898)

The first thing I plan to do is to cleanse the codebase of all bad code. A good programmatic cleansing from time to time helps refresh the CVS tree of liberty.

More infighting? (0, Troll)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903906)

Great. That's just what we need: more infighting among the open-source elite.

I don't mean to go on a rant here, but look what we're up against. Many times, clients who would otherwise enjoy the flexibility of Linux are appalled by the infighting and bickering that takes place among projects. Consider the dozens of distributions, forks, and delays caused by a licence not being "free enough." My clients want to have good-quality software. In the real world, good-quality software comes with no strings attached.

In short, please work on developing good software. As long as it's free as in $0.00, I'll be happy.

Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Impatient Consultant

Re:More infighting? (5, Insightful)

vidarh (309115) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903981)

Because obviously there is no infighting and bickering between companies that develop proprietary software?

Dragging up these kinds of conflicts as a problem with open source projects is a lousy excuse at best.

In the real world, if clients are "appalled by the infighting and bickering" what it really means is that they are appalled because they got to see what would otherwise to a large extent happen behind closed doors protected by ridiculous membership fees for industry consortiums, or they somehow see it as "infighting and bickering" when it happens on a mailing-list and serious, worthwhile competition when it happens in the form of press releases from large companies.

If your clients can't handle that, they need to learn - openness means dirty laundry IS aired in public, and ultimately it's a strength that allow users to take organizational risk into account when choosing a software solution, something which is inherently hard to do with companies where all the nasty stuff happens behind the users backs.

Re:More infighting? (0, Flamebait)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904143)

"Openness means dirty laundry IS aired in public." This is strictly a bad thing. We don't need to have CIOs potentially exposed to Richard M. Stallman [softpanorama.org] and his self-aggrandizement. We don't want to have our critical customers exposed to the egos that rewrite dictionaries [catb.org] and spam mailing lists with idiotic rants about "anti-idiotarianism." [faqs.org]

Frankly, I think the Open Source movement's greatest enemy is its own membership. When a professional software developer lets his ego get the best of him, he gets fired. When an open source developer starts ranting, he starts public embarrassing flame wars that only undermine investors' confidence in the viability of Linux tools.

Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Flaming For Peace

Re:More infighting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904284)

When people have a job to lose, they don't speak their minds. This reasoning process is shared among all people with similar things to lose. This leads to 'groupthink,' also known as 'yes men.' You don't buck trends, you don't speak out when things are broken because you don't want to rock the boat.

Groupthink is a serious problem in the corporate world. People will not put their asses on the line to question a bad decision (be it one of software licensing, business dealings or just plain common sense) and will think they are saving themselves by shutting up. In reality, the shit will eventually hit the fan over the bad decision and everyone will just say "I thought it was a bad idea all along" but at this point, noone has a job to protect because the business has gone under.

Flame wars help nothing, but to pretend that noone should have a voice is plain idiotic. Your flamebait was obviously successful in drawing my response, but you are no more correct because of it.

Like it or not, there are no barriers to Open Source use or advocacy. This is both good and bad for the movement. Deal with it. If RMS or ESR don't give you a warm-fuzzy feeling, tough love. The rest of us have the advantage of something called the 'middle ground.' Let others take up the extremes, they are welcome to them.

Re:More infighting? (0, Offtopic)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904411)

I find it deeply, deeply ironical that you have chosen the forum of Slashdot to decry the so-called "corporate" impact of groupthink.

Just think where we'd be without open source groupthink.

  1. No more "(1998..2008) is the Year of Linux" articles.
  2. People accepting Linux's flaws rather than saying "My grandma uses Linux; why can't you?"
  3. People understanding the difference between user-run executables (the so-called "Windows security holes" people gripe about) and exploitable buffers (as found in dozens of Linux projects; patch 'em yourself).
  4. An end to the endless, tiresome, embarrassing debates wherein a small faction tries to take on the groupthink and is shouted down. Does this sound familiar?
    User: Can we import from closed-source program X? My company uses program X, but we would switch if a convertor were available.
    Open source developer: STFU. We don't support closed-source anything. It's your own fault for locking yourself in. Write your own convertor and release it under the GPL.
    User: But I don't know how to extend your codebase. Your documentation is five versions out of date.
    Open source developer: STFU and STFW. *plonk*

Re:More infighting? (1)

johannesg (664142) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904463)

The various hard-working developers have legimitate grievances that need to be addressed. That is why they are spending a considerable amount of time on this new project (which is really a duplicate effort, but required because the original project, at least in their eyes, has failed). Writing this down as "public embarrassing flame wars" is really a rather derogatory way to look at it, especially considering that these developers do not actually have control over the legions of fanboys here on /. who are happily spending their time flaming and doing nothing productive whatsoever.

In this context I'd like to point out that I love the way you write "flaming for peace" at the bottom of your posts...

Re:More infighting? (1)

NineNine (235196) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904310)

There's a reason why commercial software is like this: the customer doesn't need to know or care who does what, so long as the product is done. The fighting and arguing makes OSS look like a joke in many cases. Stuff done by committee is often the *worst* way to get some job accomplished. That's common knowledge. With commercial software, there's ultimately a boss who says "I've heard everyone's opinions. It's going to be done THIS way. I said so". And ultimately, the product gets finished, and the customer doesn't know about any arguing. Public rants and raves are juvenile, and in no way help a project. How does it help, exactly?

Re:More infighting? (5, Insightful)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904020)

"Consider the dozens of distributions, forks, and delays caused by a licence not being "free enough."

"In the real world, good-quality software comes with no strings attached."

Those 2 thing go together. "Free" as in freedom (as in GPL) gets you no-strings. The whole X fork happened because someone tried to add strings.

"In short, please work on developing good software. As long as it's free as in $0.00, I'll be happy."

This makes me want to call you all sort of nasty stuff. Why don't YOU go develop something I want and then give it to ME? I'll just sit here and bitch about your development process and complain if it isn't $0.00.

Or was your post supposed to be a joke and I missed it?

Cool.. (5, Funny)

sokkalf (542999) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903907)

Do you get a fancy @x.org mailaddress?

Re:Cool.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903982)

ooh... I want pr0n@x.org!! or email that fax to f@x.org!! or clinton can play the s@x.org!! omfg lol roflmah (rolling on floor licking my ass-hole)

I give them two months (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903920)

...until they're just another dead OSS project, just like all the abandoned ones on sf.net.

FARCE (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903931)

All these memberships and elections are nothing else than a big

FARCE

The same happened with GNOME, people should get the feeling to be members, to elect people to sit and direct a board but this is pure bullshit. At the end (within 1-2 years) the same people will be elected over and over again which ends in monotone leadership with same people and some of them probably end to abuse their powers and act dictatoship to the project.

XF86.Org.... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903940)

Interesting way to go tell XF86.Org to go pound sand.. First release their old licensed code, then demonstrate how much more open your board of directors is... I think I like it..

I hope they solve (4, Interesting)

UltimaGuy (745333) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903947)

the myriad of problems users of GUI in Linux face. I mean, common, it surely pisses me if I have to edit a config file by hand if I install any nvidia driver. Also, I hate to do it again when I recompile a new kernel.
Also, I hope they provide a solid backdrop from where desktop linux can emerge.

Only Nvidia can solve that, (4, Interesting)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904120)

by openning up their hardware programming specifications.

I have none of the problems you mention, and that is because my video card has open programming specifications.

Re:I hope they solve (2, Informative)

c4Ff3In3 4ddiC+ (661808) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904142)

Well for one, you don't have to edit the config file if you are only rebuilding the nvidia kernel modules.

Second, there are scripts floating around that will automatically rebuild the nvidia kernel module for your current kernel if it fails to load. I have been using such a script in Gentoo for a few months now. Works fine and I never have to do anything after installing a new kernel.

Re:I hope they solve (1)

sremick (91371) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904333)

Is it an nVidia problem, or a problem with your Linux distribution?

On FreeBSD:

cd /usr/ports/x11/nvidia-driver ; make clean install

Usually FreeBSD tends to be more "manual" than Linux, while Linux tends to be more pointy-and-clicky. I'm surprised they don't have the nVidia driver thing polished to be mindless. :(

Re:I hope they solve (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904549)

I don't know why you think an improved X will solve Linux's "Gui problems"?

" it surely pisses me if I have to edit a config file by hand if I install any nvidia driver. "

So blame Nvidia. Why doesn't their install routine do this? Come on now we are not talking about rocket science here. Parsing a text file and changing a few lines is something ANY first year CS student can figure out why can't Nvidia?

"Also, I hope they provide a solid backdrop from where desktop linux can emerge."

The Linux desktop isn't going anywhere until the big ISV's, Adobe, Intuit, etc all support it. More importantly Linux needs be a a tier one OS that's available preloaded on every Dell, HP, and IBM desktop sold. X isn't the reason Linux isn't there yet, lack of real support from the big commercial companies is. You want to see real marketshare for the Linux desktop? That's not gonna happen until the big boys decide on it.

People keep talking about how Linux needs to change at a fundemental level so that is worthy of building on for the desktop. In reality all we need is change at a fundemental level for Linux to well on the desktop. Technically there is no reason why Linux can't be used as a desktop by anyone. But realistically people won't seriously consider Linux until it A) comes preloaded on a siginificant amount of machines and B) can run all of the apps they are used to. I agree, improving X good thing. But let's not forget what's really holding Linux back.

Re:I hope they solve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904636)

This is really up to the company/organisation which producs the distribution you are using.

X.Org provides a component the same way Linus et al are providing the kernel. Then it is up to the assembler of those components to make them work smoothly together.

Nifty! (-1, Offtopic)

Walkiry (698192) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903952)

CowboyNeal for President!

Offtopic? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904005)

Some dumbass mod didn't see the "Nominations for each election are open until 23.59 PDT". That's about par for the course here.

GPL? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8903959)

Will this remain GPL? The X.org website has a lot of talk about benefits of corporate membership, and says they will periodically release software to the general public free of charge. I though X.org was a GPL alternative to Xfree86 after the much discussed liscense change.

Re:GPL? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904117)

Since when was it GPL?

Re:GPL? (5, Informative)

Weird O'Puns (749505) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904177)

Xorg isn't licensed GPL but with the old XFree license(v.1.0) that is GPL compatible. The big discussion was because the latest XFree license(v.1.1) holds a clause that makes it incompatible with GPL, which then might produce massive problems with anything linked to it. This isn't yet a problem as the XFree's xlib is still using the old license, but people fear it might be in the future.

Re:GPL? (1, Troll)

runderwo (609077) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904539)

The big discussion was because the latest XFree license(v.1.1) holds a clause that makes it incompatible with GPL, which then might produce massive problems with anything linked to it.
It only produces "massive problems" in the FSF's interpretation of the GPL. I don't share their interpretation of dynamic linking as creating a derived work, and without that interpretation, there is no problem writing dynamically linked applications with the new license.

It's very similar to SCO's claim that writing your code against the UNIX ABI somehow causes it to be a derived work of SCO's code. At least the FSF doesn't try to claim ownership of such code, though.

There is no way around the fact that dynamic linking happens at runtime, on the user's system, and under the control of the user. There is no possible way that a distributor could be held responsible for what a user does with the software. The only thing that could be argued is intent on the behalf of the distributor, if he distributed the GPL binary with linker references to a proprietary library within the same archive or from the same web site. But even that is shaky.

IMO, the dynamic vs static linking distinction should be dropped from GPLv3. It is a source of much confusion and dubious gain, while seeming almost like a EULA clause cloaked in sheep's clothing in that it tries to control what happens on the end user's system. Make no claim whatsoever about dynamic linking, but disallow distribution of statically linked proprietary applications and reserve that for LGPL licensed apps.

Another thing GPLv3 could do is specifically enumerate categories of license clauses which are not part of GPLv3 itself, but are nevertheless considered not to be non-free. Thus when you link software under GPLv3 and another free license, you don't have the silly problems caused by GPLv2's "You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein." The GPLv2 is preventing software which is under perfectly reasonable free software licenses (even according to the FSF!) from being aggregated with GPL works, simply because they have added a term to their license which is not non-free in the least, but nevertheless "imposes a further restriction" and causes its license to be incompatible with the GPL.

Rant time!! (-1, Offtopic)

CajunArson (465943) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903968)

OK, This is OT to the story but related to X and I want to vent. When are we going to see some real improvements to the X protocol?? Before you flame me for saying that X shouldn't be network transparent that's not my point. I LIKE the network transparency and use it every day. However, over slower links it SUCKS and you rapidly find out how inefficient the protocol is.
Case in point, I open up Kmail on my PC at school to check my mail from home. I've got a cable modem so I do have a relatively decent amount of bandwidth. Gripe 1: A packet gets sent EVERY TIME THE CURSOR BLINKS!!! Why the fsck is that needed?? Even when I am on a separate virtual desktop and not viewing the app the traffic is STILL SENT!! Now you might say, that the app is simply refreshing itself so it is up to date when I go back to view it. A fair assumption except that it's completely wrong and brings me to Gripe 2: Why does the ENTIRE app need to redraw itself (using huge amounts of network bandwidth) every time I obscure it with a window or hop to another virtual desktop??? The damned thing is already wasting traffic updating when I'm not even lookin g at it, why does it need to redraw AGAIN when I view the window again???? Now onto my final gripe for right now. Gripe 3: If X is such a truly network independent application why the hell can't I simply redirect the output of an already running process to any X-term??? If I have a process running on my PC at school, I should be able to simply redirect the X output over my forwarded SSH port and the running application should smoothly appear on my remote X server. The X-client would still be my machine at school, and the process would keep on running without missing a beat. I thought the whole point of setting up X was to allow for just this kind of operation!! The only thing I have ever seen to do this kind of operation was an experimental project called xmove from about 10 years ago and this type of functionality is severely lacking.
In conclusion, we need to improve X, and while most people whine about eye candy (and I like eye candy don't get me wrong) I think we really need to address why X's network protocols are not up to pace with modern technology.

Re:Rant time!! (1)

negacao (522115) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904038)

Is your cable modem upstream capped?

Every cable provider I've seen caps upstream to around 20k/sec.

I haven't seem them all, though; I switched to DSL as soon as I move, and haven't looked back. [no anti-server b/s, much less 'lag', etc] course, it's more expensive to get an equivilent downstream, but.. :)

Re:Rant time!! (1)

Spellbinder (615834) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904382)

it's funny
here in switzerland it is the other way around
more bandwith with cable, no disconnection after 20h, not even a change of the IP for many month(as long your PC is online), better pings
2mbit/512kbit for around 50$

Re:Rant time!! (3, Interesting)

SmackCrackandPot (641205) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904046)

In other words:

Gripe 1: A packet gets sent EVERY TIME THE CURSOR BLINKS!

Could it be possible to specify the cursor blink rate in X-windows?

Gripe 2: Why does the ENTIRE app need to redraw itself (using huge amounts of network bandwidth) every time I obscure it with a window or hop to another virtual desktop???

Could X-windows support display lists like OpenGL?

Re:Rant time!! (4, Interesting)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904062)

Look, if you want them to listen to you, then calm down and don't use CAPITALS or "????!!!!" all over the place. It makes you look like a zealot with emotional problems.

Anyway... a large part of the slowness over the network are caused by the toolkit and the apps, not by the protocol itself! QT and GTK do not use the X protocol efficiently.
Until the toolkits and apps are fixed, use NX compression [nomachine.com]. I heard it does wonders and makes Mozilla usable even over a modem.

Re:Rant time!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904183)

Actually you show be fair about it. QT uses X a lot more efficiently thank GTK does. It common knowledge than KDE runs a lot better remotely than Gnome does.

Re:Rant time!! (4, Informative)

noselasd (594905) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904122)

>2: Why does the ENTIRE app need to redraw itself (using huge amounts of
>network bandwidth) every time I obscure it with a window or hop to
>another virtual desktop??? The damned thing is already wasting traffic
>updating when I'm not even lookin g at it, why does it need to redraw
>AGAIN when I view the window again???? Now onto my final gripe for
>right now.
Toolkit problem. Don't blame that on X.

>Gripe 3: If X is such a truly network independent application why the
>hell can't I simply redirect the output of an already running process
>to any X-term???
Cause ther's a lot of state residing on the X server about every
application/Xwindow. And there is no current way of transferring
that state to another X server.

Re:Rant time!! (3, Insightful)

BlueWonder (130989) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904133)

When are we going to see some real improvements to the X protocol??
[...] Gripe 1: A packet gets sent EVERY TIME THE CURSOR BLINKS!!! Why the fsck is that needed?? Even when I am on a separate virtual desktop and not viewing the app the traffic is STILL SENT!!

The latter is a problem with the app, not with the X protocol. The X protocol allows it to notify an app when its windows are mapped or unmapped, so the app needn't attempt to make the cursor blink in an unmapped window.

Gripe 2: Why does the ENTIRE app need to redraw itself (using huge amounts of network bandwidth) every time I obscure it with a window or hop to another virtual desktop???

That's a problem with the capabilities and/or configuration of the X server, but not with the X protocol. The protocol allows backing store and save under.

Re:Rant time!! (4, Informative)

Hornsby (63501) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904570)

Gripe 3: If X is such a truly network independent application why the hell can't I simply redirect the output of an already running process to any X-term?

You can easily do this if you use screen. I do it all the time.

http://www.guckes.net/screen/

Use it like this:

user@host:~$ screen -S longcompile
user@host:~$ make


Now press ctrl-a then d to detach.

Close all your terms and go home.
Now ssh back into the machine and type screen -R longcompile to reconnect to your compile session. You can detach and reattach as often as you like. It also has a lot more features, but I'll let you RTM for those.

Corp. Involvement? (5, Insightful)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903971)

Anyone know if NVidia or ATI is going to be involved with this? Sure would be nice to have stable drivers for 3d acceleration from the get-go...

KDE/Gnome controlled X.Org? (3, Insightful)

tahtalim (735164) | more than 9 years ago | (#8903997)

Great... Whoever has more developpers can easily control X.Org. Donno if this is good or bad, but at least it won't be company oriented after all.

Legalease and Rules... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904002)

Isn't stuff like this what drove Xfree into oblivion? It always starts out meaning well, but the best laid plans of mice and men...

I nominate (1, Funny)

KingKire64 (321470) | more than 9 years ago | (#8904059)

Bill Gates, after all look at all the wonderful stuff he hs done for windows. its so perty.

Re:I nominate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904100)

Who wants a body massage?

MAC OS X IS THE GREATEST AND TYOU ALL SUCK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904250)

Why do you nont switch to the greatest OS of the world, MA C OS X!!! IT is the greatest! Li8nux is dying you fools, all the developers want OS X Not yoour crappy Lingux!!! OS X Has the sweet sweet Aqua and you have NOTHING!!! But you can still switch over to OS X and become a winner not a Looser!! We are fair and just in our vicotory over open- source!~ We allow you to switch and expereince the best OS in the world, MAC OS X!!

READ THis and LEArn the ways of the future, NOT THE PAST LIKE LINUXSX!!

maC OSX is bgrowing day after day with ALL people from LInux seeing how greater oS X is To LINUX!

So manyu of your famos hackers now choose OS X! Soon you will be all alone in the world on a dying dead system!

READ This and see the TURUTH!!! [apple.com]

Why do yuou not just witch NOW before you are stuck in LINUX too much longer:? Apple will acceppt you into the club of winners!

GIVe up becuase LINUX has lost and MA C oS X Has one! RMS is a looser and has no brain he is just a criminal pirate who has no money to buy OS X!!

All you Linux hacker do is STEAL form MAC OSX!! WE have all the idea, WE have all the cool, WE have all the progframns, YOU have nothing but stealing!!!

WHo needs free software code when it no good anywyas? BUY MAC OS X NOW!! JOin uS In being winners!@ It is sooo cool, dont ' you WANT TO BE cool!? Dont ' you want to get hot chicks like me? You are not cool you are, a failure!! BUy mAC OS Xor else you will be a l ooser forever!!!

singed, your friend Weiyang Zhang~!

I put my name becuase last time I right you a letter people were say that I was un reputable and not true. NOW YOU KNOW! I am real and I LOVE MA C OSX@@@!!!!


Mac OS X has evolved. The fourth major release in just three years, Panther offers breakthroughs in innovation, ease of use and reliability that won't be seen in other operating systems for years, if ever.

If you're one of the millions of Mac owners, you'll love the powerful refinements to your system. Or as a user of a Windows- or UNIX-based system, you'll find mouth-watering incentives to switch to a Mac as your main computer.

A new point of view
The world's most elegant user interface just got easier. A completely new Finder provides a vastly improved view of the system, with one-click access to your favorite files and folders, whether on your hard drive, iDisk, network servers or removable media. On top of that, Panther returns search results as you type in queries to find your stuff, refining the list as you narrow options. Sure you could quantify that as up to six times faster than Jaguar, but you'll probably think Panther's done almost before you stop typing. It's just that fast. Compare that to finding files on a Windows-based machine and, well, there's simply no comparison.

More than window dressing
Panther introduces the most revolutionary advance in productivity for a desktop windowing system in years. It's called Exposé. With advanced virtual and protected memory, Mac OS X lets you have scads of applications open at the same time without fearing data loss in other apps if an unruly program crashes. And with several documents open per application, you could end up with dozens of open windows. Finding a window you worked on an hour ago can become a challenge. Exposé lets you instantly see all your open windows at once, then switch to the right one. Or see just the windows of the current program. Or the files on your desktop. And you won't find it anywhere else.

Phone home for free
Personal videoconferencing has arrived. Panther includes iChat AV so you can have face-to-face conversations in high-quality, full-screen video over the Internet with an iSight or DV camera. Or make voice calls with crystal-clear audio anywhere in the world over 56K modem. Of course you can still text message with anyone on the AIM and .Mac networks. Use iSight to set your buddy picture. The superior graphics capabilities of Mac OS X enable innovative applications previously imagined only in science fiction.

Digital Swiss Army knife
You can do just about anything with Panther. Mac OS X includes the latest versions of Apple's critically acclaimed digital lifestyle and Internet applications. Speed through web browsing with the fastest browser on the Mac, Safari. Apple's new default browser offers pop-up blocking and built-in Google searching. The new version of Mail delivers even fewer junk emails and makes it easy to read and manage related emails with a threaded view.

You'll also get the fastest PDF viewer on the planet. Preview lets you navigate and search text at lightning speed. Creative professionals will appreciate its ability to open EPS and PostScript files, too. And to make type management more manageable, Panther introduces a new application, Font Book, which lets you preview and install fonts with just one click. Or locate any font on your system with the search function. You can activate fonts individually or create sets to make them available in groups.

Works well with others
Fast User Switching makes it even easier to share your system with other people. You can let them log into your Mac without quitting any of your applications. Then with one click, you can switch back to your desktop with all documents and applications exactly as you left them. Panther uses an elegant 3D transition to move between user accounts.

Only with Mac OS X can you run Microsoft Office, Quark XPress and Adobe Photoshop, browse a Windows network and use Unix commands -- at the same time. Visit an Apple store or reseller near you to see for yourself. You'll find Panther easy to install, easy to learn and hard to remember what you did without it.

STOP Doint Linux and START MAC OSx!!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904272)

maC OSX is bgrowing day after day with ALL people from LInux seeing how greater oS X is To LINUX!

So manyu of your famos hackers now choose OS X! Soon you will be all alone in the world on a dying dead system!

READ This and see the TURUTH!!! [apple.com]

Why do yuou not just witch NOW before you are stuck in LINUX too much longer:? Apple will acceppt you into the club of winners!

GIVe up becuase LINUX has lost and MA C oS X Has one! RMS is a looser and has no brain he is just a criminal pirate who has no money to buy OS X!!

All you Linux hacker do is STEAL form MAC OSX!! WE have all the idea, WE have all the cool, WE have all the progframns, YOU have nothing but stealing!!!

WHo needs free software code when it no good anywyas? BUY MAC OS X NOW!! JOin uS In being winners!@ It is sooo cool, dont ' you WANT TO BE cool!? Dont ' you want to get hot chicks like me? You are not cool you are, a failure!! BUy mAC OS Xor else you will be a l ooser forever!!!

singed, your friend Weiyang Zhang~!

I put my name becuase last time I right you a letter people were say that I was un reputable and not true. NOW YOU KNOW! I am real and I LOVE MA C OSX@@@!!!!

XOrg Foundation is a front for the GNU Nazis (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#8904474)

Every day, the GPL zealots resemble the Mafia more and more. "Releasing the source" is akin to paying the protection money, so you don't get your legs broken. When will you people learn that strong-arm tactics are no way to garner acceptance in the business world? Demanding the source code for everything under the sun is going to give Linux a bad name among those of us that embrace capitalism.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...