LinSpire LPhoto and LSongs: bring on the lawsuits! 481
Sir Joltalot writes "Over at OSNews they're covering the newly-renamed LinSpire's LSongs and LPhoto apps. Take a look at those screenshots, and you'll notice a striking resemblence to Apple's iTunes and iPhoto. Take a look at this flash presentation and you'll see that LPhoto and iPhoto are almost exactly alike. They look like nifty apps, to be sure, but how long will they last? I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco..."
Oh my.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh my.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I put 'version' in quotes there because they both have some very similar roots. There's cross seeding with a couple of the original coders, and neither app was completely coded/released before the other. They both seem to be coexisting quite well with no hint of legal action from either side.
If Linspire had given LPhoto a brushed metal interface and copied th
Re:Oh my.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:2, Informative)
There's no GUI originality these days..
Bu I doubt Apple care, it just assimilates more followers to adopt the MAc GUI paradigm...
There are (horrible) Gnome skins that look just like XP. I doubt M$ really care.
Looks cheap and nasty, unfortunately (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought that Linux UI had got beyond this stage?
And the problem is barely with the fact that they've virtually screenshot-copied from iTunes, but with the fact that the rest of the simple presentation elements (lists, titles, etc) are really poorly displayed. There's no alignment for example (something that would give it a lot of clarity), or spacing (visual simplicity, eases the user). It's the UI equivalent of a ransom note -- bits and pieces cut from elsewhere.
I understand that this is a commercially sold operating system. If they want to improve the UI of these products, I believe that I could do a better job!
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:2)
(And whoever modded parent 'offtopic'--I'll see you in meta-modding.)
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:3, Interesting)
As someone who slavishly imitated another UI (a management app that ships with a piece of hardware, and was Windows only), I feel qualified to answer that.
While I was planning to eventually write end user documentation for the program, I didn't plan on heaving it ready early on in the release cycle. Basing my program's UI on the screenshots in the Windows product's documentation assured me that the UI will be documented somewhere
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:5, Interesting)
It reminds me of something one of my college professors once told me. McDonald spends a lot of money and effort studying the best locations to put a new franchises in a city. Burger King then just looks for places where they are building a new McDonalds. (I don't know if the story is true or not, but he had an interesting point)
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know exactly when X11 came out, (and a quick googling didn't net me that information), but I do know that Apple had the first commercial mouse out. There had been drafting devices that were used to input blueprints that were similar, but they did not
Re:Linux apps that are hopelessly derivative? (Score:4, Informative)
AFAIK, the first X11 came out aroudn 1985. A year or so after the Lisa, around the same time that MS Windows 1.0 came out. Motif was 1987 IIRC.
And Apple certainly didn't copy Unix, that is laughable. If anything, Apple copied Smalltalk, but as you point out, they bought the engineers behind it and did so more or less with Xerox's approval.
Bla, bla, bla, bla. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, cry me a river.
When apps _don't_ copy the look'and'feel we get all this whining about how the interface is "weird". See also: GIMP, Blender
So basically linux application GUIs are only allowed to exist in the interval marked "very very familiar -- not too different -- but different enough for my taste."
Anything else, queue the whining.
Re:Bla, bla, bla, bla. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bla, bla, bla, bla. (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, please (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux can easily come up with its own GUI design. We've got thousands of world volunteers at our disposal. As someone important recently quipped, "We have the power of millions of volunteers and what do we do? We make a UNIX clone. Then we make a Windows clone on top of it."
No bad publicity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No bad publicity? (Score:5, Insightful)
My thoughts exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My thoughts exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
So, what is that "LSongs" thing, anyway? Is it just a skinned Juk or a new application?
The next step (Score:5, Funny)
Parent.hit(nail+head) (Score:4, Interesting)
I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco
I thought to myself, "They did!"
Clearly they have learned from the lindows/windows fiasco. Thousands of people had never heard of them before that. Now thousands more will hear about them through this. I wonder who's next after Microsoft and Apple. Maybe they should go after one of SCO's trademarks instead?
Music formats: (Score:2)
It also brings cross media format support to Linux by playing MP3, Ogg, Windows Media, QuickTime and Real media, ensuring that Linux users can play the most popular formats they might encounter on the Internet.
Let us wait and see.
Re:Music formats: (Score:2)
they didn't even try to be sneaky (Score:2)
All though, they say any press is good press.
Re:they didn't even try to be sneaky (Score:4, Interesting)
Linspire Homepage (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Linspire Homepage (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Linspire Homepage (Score:5, Funny)
LSongs? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:LSongs? (Score:2)
I don't believe the name is the real issue they would have. It's using the same funcationality, look and feel. Although, this may not be an issue. Look at M$ office... there is openoffice, staroffice, wordperfect and more that all have a very similar look, feel and functionality.
If apple does go after this thou
Re:LSongs? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:LSongs? (Score:3, Informative)
And the first series of the lawsuit was dismissed because Microsoft had worked some wording into a contract with Apple in the agreement to produce the predecessor to Excel (one of the original mac os 1.0 programs) that allowed
Re:LSongs? (Score:5, Funny)
This just in. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This just in. (Score:3, Insightful)
Imagine the following without intercapitalization
Re:This just in. (Score:3, Informative)
is shorter than
LLawsuits... (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, is there a point with UI design where the (near-enough) best has been met, and all that can be done is to replicate that with minor changes? Should the fact that one group of designers found that best first stop others from also discovering and using it?
I've looked at the screenshot of Lphoto and they are dreaming if they think that Apple will look at th
Re:LSongs? (Score:3, Insightful)
How much did the theme manufacturer pay to Apple?
(And, anyway: it's a bit apples and oranges. Apple took the concepts. Theme dude took the look and feel.)
Re:LSongs? (Score:3, Informative)
No. That was great demo, but it wasn't GUI. It was all text. They had a mouse cursor (called a "bug") moving above the text, but that's all. It wasn't what someone today would call a "GUI", by the popular definition.
(The popular definition is arguably wrong, since onscreen text is actually a subset of graphics)
LayFair? (Score:5, Funny)
Angering the behemoth (Score:3, Funny)
I wish them the best of luck, they'll need it.
You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Funny)
That little eye in the corner (is that what it is?) kinda looks like the button in the top right hand corner of iTunes. Kinda. If you squint.
Actually that eye is kinda creepy. And the general app doesn't look anywhere near as slick as iTunes. And what's with the letter "L"? Now it sounds Spanish: "I have me el tunes and el photo..."
LSongs/iTunes similarities (Score:5, Informative)
- File/Edit/Controls/Visualizer/Advanced menu system
- "Source" title on playlist/library listing on left
- Expandable browsing area
- Column view of browsing
- Checkboxes on playlist
- Play icon in playlist in same position
- "Selected song" caption for album art and same positioning
- Add/shuffle/repeat/album art toggle buttons in same location
- Equalizer/visualizer/eject buttons in same location
- Play controls / now playing / search / browse in same position, only at bottom of screen
- Exact same play position marker
Nope, no similiarities here. Of course, I wonder if...Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Informative)
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:5, Insightful)
Y'know, if they had just taken the concept instead, and actually I think they're going in the right direction here, it would have gone over well with me (and I'm sure many others).
What I think they're trying to do here is copy what Apple is doing right down to the interface, but I mean why? Apple has identified some key apps that Joe Average wants to use, fair enough. Take that idea and run with it, but they should have completely diverged from Apple's own applications and come up with something new, or extend any of the pretty spiffy applications that already exists under X windows.
What works in Aqua doesn't work everywhere, and I think it's because of the widgets. That layout, given the toolset that most X Window system developers have, that layout just doesn't work.
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone brings out a nice product, then someone brings out an OSS clone of it. If anyone complains, slashdotters insist that you can't patent 'usability', and that the original product was somehow the obvious end result of solving a particular usabiliity problem
Then someone brings out another product that solves it in a different and superior way. Then someone clones that, etc...
It's blatantly not true that the iTunes or iPhoto interface is the only possible way of solving the music/photo management usability problem. It's blatantly true that the Linspire dudes are saving money on R&D by ripping off Apple (& Microsoft) so they can invest it in other things like marketing (and legal defence).
But what happens if the innovating companies go away? What happens if nobody bothers with R&D? Who will Linspire rip off then?
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple is competing on the basis of a better UI for a high price, and is losing to Microsoft (who innovates only as much as necessary to be one step ahead of Linux). I fail to see how innovation is the only path to success. Many co
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Funny)
Of course, I don't think Linspire has a good enough engine to pass anybody. What's their big innovation: selling cheap PCs at Walmart.com? I think it's obvious that segment's not in Apple's target demographic. Somehow, I think dropping
Re:Apple's target demographic (Score:3, Interesting)
The thought process that goes into buying a mac is something like this: I want a machine that will do what I need to do. I want a machine that won't make me do a lot of things I don't want to do.
In short, I want to run the computer. I don't want it to run me. Some people are willing to pay for a computer that tries to give them more time to work or play by streamlining the process of using a computer. That's what Apple's all abo
Re:You can have your iPhoto (Score:3, Insightful)
A song is meant to be unique, if they were all the same, people wouldn't enjoy them.
However, from music players and photos, we expect the same kind of abilities (everyone recognises the triangle for play the eject symbol stop, etc), we want to play music, store playlists, play all music formats.
From photo editing/viewing software, we want thumbnails, cutting, pasting etc (everyone recognises the scissors symbol, paintcan, etc).
How much can you make an interface different to another one
Look & Feel (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Look & Feel (Score:2)
How about the "look and feel" of ls or even bash?
How ridiculous.
Re:Look & Feel (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can argue that your product has a distinctive look and feel, then you can register for trade dress [amerilawyer.com] protection.
Also: you can apply for a patent for an interface (which someone else pointed out Apple has done for iPhoto).
You're wrong. (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple lost the look-and-feel suit with Microsoft over different interpretations of a clause in one of the contracts between the companies. Microsoft argued that it allowed them to copy the GUI. They won, which I think was surprised Microsoft as much as anyone else.
I agree that software patents that protect methodologies are bad, but design is copyright law, and not patents at all. You don't see a Dodge Firebird out there, do you? Rip-offs of copyrighted designs should absolutely be stopped.
Sufficiently different? (Score:2)
Re:Sufficiently different? (Score:2)
There's nothing similar about it, it looks nearly IDENTICAL.
Here's a screenshot of iPhoto [slashdot.org] to compare.
Re:Sufficiently different? (Score:2)
Here: iPhoto [mac.com].
Asking For trouble (Score:2)
Lindows CEO (Score:5, Funny)
He got the word through (Score:5, Interesting)
He's pulling the same stunt again.
It's an ingenious move. Look at what he has accomplished. Every
By the time he changes the layout of those apps, a lot of people will have tried it out. Voila, instant market-share, no costs but a simple layout-redesign (which is probably resting on the shelfs as we speak).
Re:He got the word through (Score:5, Interesting)
1. I have zero respect for the Linspire folks.
2. The Linspire folks have zero imagination and zero respect for other people's work.
Re:He got the word through (Score:3, Interesting)
"Respect" has never paid the bills.
"Respect" does not allow you to drive a convertible.
"Respect" is not for dinner.
Ethical business practice, my ass. I've since long found out that most of the salesdroids I encounter are lying thieves, burnt on making a quick buck with as little to do for it as possible.
Re:He got the word through (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He got the word through (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows was a ripoff of MacOS (and to a lesser extent, CDE, which Microsoft worked on as a joint project with Sun and IBM).
Outlook was a ripoff of Eudora. Eudora was a ripoff of PINE. PINE was a ripoff of ELM. There's a long history of ripoffs there.
WinAMP was a ripoff of MP3PLAYER, the original MP3 music player from Fraunhofer.
DevStudio was a ripoff of Borland IDE.
Everything is a ripoff of something else. Just because YOU saw it first on Windows does NOT MEAN it was actually first on Windows. It only means you know a lot less than you think you do.
The karmic balance of the universe means somebody will now point out some obscure app or OS proving that I know a lot less than I think I do, and that is all good and proper.
Uh.... (Score:3, Interesting)
"Hey guys, look, OpenOffice.org looks almost identical to Microsoft Word! Guess they're getting a big lawsuit!"
Just because a product emulates a look and feel doesn't mean it's BAD does it? Since when was there a patent on a GUI?
Sure, I can see the system MacOS being patented (Aqua) but, not the interface for a frickin' photo management system... There's only so many ways you can make a good product!
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
Re:Uh.... (Score:2)
Yeah, well it would if it could use more than nine fonts.
The iTunes interface is patented (Score:5, Informative)
Ever since Apple got US patent number 2002089529 [espacenet.com], titled Media Player Interface. Look at the drawings -- that's iTunes. That probably also explains why LSongs has the player controlls at the bottom of the screen.
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Its flagship product, the iLMLaLc, will be released April 30th.
The CEO of Lapple, Lsteve Ljobs, have been quoted as saying "We really don't understand all this fuss about ripping off names! Macintosh and Apple are both names that have seen extensive use before Apple Inc, and their claims are foundless."
Nice (Score:2)
not that similar... (Score:2, Insightful)
Ugly, but identical, wins the race? (Score:3, Informative)
All ugliness aside, they will be lucky not to get sued by Apple. But I doubt anyone will be confusing these for their Macintosh counterparts.
Granted, Linux could certainly use more entry level apps that are attractive enough to bring in the common home users, but these apps are definitely not going to cut it.
Bad Rap for Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, it's still publicity, but when do they cross the line to just pissing everyone off?
Or will everyone just keep agreeing with these guerilla tactics because they "hate Microsoft"? Idiots.
imitators... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:imitators... (Score:3, Insightful)
Windows XP is a pale imitation of VMS and MacOS.
MacOS X is a pale imitation of BSD and NeXTStep.
Face facts, all operating systems are small evolutionary improvements over existing OSs. Stop complaining about Lin
what about xPde ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Some new L products (Score:5, Funny)
Looks Bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh brother (Score:5, Insightful)
Design is more than just what pieces you throw together. It's all about carefully choosing those pieces, understanding how they relate, and then compositing them carefully. And doing that correctly improves a program's appearance and usability. It's an important lesson to keep in mind, whatever type of use your interface is going to have.
Factually incorrect (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, I know from personal experience that you're wrong. My computer illiterate girlfriend has an iBook (
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
There should have been at least one thread about "why can't we just go back to gopher and list elements again?" or "what's wrong with 8-bit GIFs?"
Amazing.
geez (Score:3, Interesting)
Show me your Garageband or iMovie clone and I'll start paying attention.
Expect a Letter, But It's Just a Bow Shot (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would Apple care, especially since these apps work only on Linux boxes? (Assuming that this stuff compiles only for x86 and not PPC Linux distros...)
Because Apple must always show aggressive protection of their products' trade and servicemarks as well as their look and feel. While the resemblance to iPhoto and iTunes is mostly there, it's not something that Apple would win, IMO.
A suit or intimidating letter only creates history that courts can use (through Apple's attorneys) to keep Apple's products defined as a specific item or service, and reduce the chance of genericization.
Advertisement through litigation? (Score:2)
LTunes (Score:2, Insightful)
Jaysyn
does someone need glasses? (Score:3, Informative)
We can be so hypocritical sometimes... (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's OK for "our" apps to copy the look and feel of a competitor we don't like, yet not OK for an "outsider" to copy the look and feel of a competitor palatable to many of us?
Give me a break...
The question is: functional, or non-functional? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that a direct interface clone would be pretty clear-cut, but if it just 'looks similar,' I think that's less definite.
Apple vs Microsoft (Look N Feel) (Score:5, Informative)
Missing integration.. (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as the new Lindows apps doesnt integrate together, they wont last because other standalone applications exists that are better at what they do.
Consider Why They Don't Copy Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Consider Why They Don't Copy Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Incidentally, the fact that it wasn't "Free" caused several groups to clone the Pine and Pico interfaces. And that pissed me off as much as this Linspire initiative. When I
Litigious Society (Score:4, Insightful)
He sure is confused... (Score:3, Funny)
Then again, he could be breaking new ground.
I'm glad they did this. (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, it's probably easy for a 3 person team and 1 year of calendar time to have decent clones of each one.
Designers unite (Score:3, Insightful)
And they kicked ass, you ended up wanting to use them, finding excuses and stupid projects (let's digitise all my JJ Cale albums, yeah!) to test and try every hook and nook of your mac all over again.
That's what original and good design can do for you, dear linux crowd. I'm currently feeling my way around KDE and while very impressed (all this for FREE?) I'm constantly muttering "rip-off" under my breath.
Amazingly enough a lot of linux users are very much badmouthing a lot of products that get copied almost to the last detail.
While I'm a standards freak and know they can be more important than innovation for the sake of it, there's a time and place and above all USE for originality and style. And there are many ways to express them.
LPhoto and LSong are Lame (as said in previous post) and not because they were copied (who cares), but because they were copied without LStyle and LOriginality and as such Lack LFlavour.
this is interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Geez guys, Lindows is not for programmers and IT staff, it is for people who want to get away from M$ and it's strangle-hold on the home desktop. Most people can't afford the base model Mac, but, they can afford a $200 Lindows/Linspire box.
As for interface, aren't all opensource project works in progress, and getting updated all the time?
This may have been said... (Score:3, Funny)
My brain hurts.
A bit off-topic, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Several months ago, I purchased LindowsOS 2.0 and XandrOS 2.0 Deluxe, both of which use installers based on the old Corel Linux installer. I have several HP Omnibook 4150B (not 4150) laptops, and neither installer would work with my laptops.
The bug itself is known -- the 4150B cannot boot Linux without passing 'NOAGP' to the kernel at boot time -- but neither distribution's installer would pass the parameter correctly.
I contacted both companies with the problem, and the solution.
The Xandros people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then did the sensible thing: they fixed the installer so that the 'NOAGP' parameter can be passed. I use XandrOS almost daily.
The Lin* people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then sent me this note:
"Dear Customer,
I am sorry but with LindowsOS, you cannot change the boot parameters."
End of line. I wrote back, suggesting they change their compatibility listing for the HP Omnibook 4150B to "KNOWN TO BE INCOMPATIBLE", but here it is several months later and they still list it as "Believed to be compatible".
LindowsOS has yet to be installed on any of my computers, even the ones it is compatible with, for this reason.
Just something I thought the Linux community would like to know about.
Re:but unlike iTunes (Score:2, Insightful)