WirelessCabin: Use Your Mobile Phone on Airplanes 296
securitas writes "What if didn't have to turn off your mobile phone when you travel by air? eWEEK's Matthew Broersma reports on a European Commission project to enable mobile phone use on airplanes. The technology works by creating short-range 'picocells' that force transmission output power to drop to 1/1000th of normal, reducing electronic interference, then using a satellite uplink. The WirelessCabin project members include the German Aerospace Centre, Siemens, Ericsson and Airbus. Initial trials will use 'GSM, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections' but will add CDMA and 3G standards. WirelessCabin is already making a picocell with CDMA2000. The first demonstrations are scheduled for this summer on Lufthansa long-haul flights with the A340-600 jet."
Sky high rates? (Score:5, Interesting)
I get the feeling that even if this allows you to use your cell phone like normal, you're going to be considered to be on a "roaming tower" as far as your cell phone company is concerned because your cell phone company won't own the picocell. Therefore, forget about using your unlimited night and weekend minutes on these flights, you'll be still paying the same through-the-nose rates for plane-to-ground communications.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do cell phones actually interfere with airliners anyway? I mean c'mon -- are the systems onboard a modern aircraft really so fragile that my cell phone will bother them? Of course I always turn my phone off anyway because I don't want to be arrested and wind up in Cuba but still...
Of course I do recall that with my old Nextel (i700 plus -- that phone was a beast) I could tell when a call was incoming before the ringer went off because it would interfere with nearby speakers. I've never seen a cell phone other then that one (and I've used lots of different cell phones) interfere with anything though.
Happens to a friend of mine too.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Sean D.
Re:Happens to a friend of mine too.. (Score:2)
The exact same thing happened with my old cell phone and my old monitor, but only if the cell phone was lying on the table where it would be about 20 cm from the monitor. Obviously this means, the phone must know the call is comming, then why doesn't it start ringing until a few seconds later?
Re:Happens to a friend of mine too.. (Score:3, Insightful)
That'd be my guess.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Interesting)
1) When you're on the ground and your call drops because some jackass on an airplane owns the same cell you are on then you might care.
2) When the only time you can get 3 hours of peace is on a flight from X to Y and you have to sit next to Joe on the phone to his secretary talking about the meeting he has five days from now (which he could call and talk to her about tomorrow) you might care.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would roaming between cells on an aircraft be any different then roaming between cells while driving? Do I kick people off their calls if I switch to a new tower when I drive behind a building? Somehow I doubt it -- the cell networks are designed with roaming in mind.
When the only time you can get 3 hours of peace is on a flight from X to Y and you have to sit next to Joe on the phone to his secretary talking about the meeting he has five days from now (which he could call and talk to her about tomorrow) you might care.
That's a physiological problem not a technical problem. My question was is there any technical reason why cell phones won't work from airplanes? They obviously do work -- some of the people on the hijacked planes during 9/11 called out on them -- yet the FAA won't let you use them because they might 'interfere'. Is this founded or just paranoia?
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:5, Informative)
And yes, it is possible for Cell phones to affect accuracy of onboard instuments in older planes... There is NO GROUND PLANE on an aircraft. You are sitting a nice big faraday cage... so the onlything to absorb your signal is the equipment around you.
From a practical standpoint I would prefer rules that ban Cells on aircraft for comfort reasons... an aircraft is close personal quarters... I really don't want to hear your conversation on a long flight... (AIRRAGE!)
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2, Insightful)
You say that as if it would be peaceful without cell phones! Hah! The little kid behind you doesn't care whether or not he/she could drive the most steel-nerved adult crazy within the course of a couple hours (or maybe it's the parent who refuses to d
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2, Informative)
There's an article [wired.com] in this month's Wired that talks about this. Basically, no it wouldn't cause a problem.
Actually, they can (Score:2)
If you use a cell phone, and it interferes with the controlls(auto pilot) the airline will buy your phone, then contact the fcc and the phone manufactures to complain that there phone is out side specs. It's not all phones, or even all the same model, just a 'bad' phone that came out of the line.
If you read the article you link to, you would have noticed that it does not say that they are safe.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Interesting)
Note that the subcarriers/harmonics problems isn't limited to intentional radiators (transmitters.)
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2)
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:5, Interesting)
Can't find the post. Maybe s/b else can.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Informative)
No, they interfere with cell towers, that's the problem. The plane is going so fast that the cell phone keeps on switching towers.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2, Informative)
goates
Interference? (Score:2, Informative)
There was an article in IEEE Spectrum [ieee.org] about this a few years ago. I would post the results, but (1) I forget what the article said, and (b) I am lazy.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Informative)
I wish I could remember the reference, but I read recently that supposedly the main issue with mobile phones on flights is the way they splatter themselves across cells on the ground. The article acknowledged that there have been many examples of people accidently leaving phones on during flights.
Personally, I've left a GSM phone on during a flight once.
Additionally, as an engineer, I would be _extremely_ suprised if the GSM standards bodies and the FCC/licensing authorities actually permitted the GSM tec
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2)
My last phone, a Motorola T193 (the worst phone I've ever seen), would routinely interfere with my speakers. If I left it on my desk within a foot or two of the speakers I would get a b
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2)
However, I don't think it's something that shielding can't protect from. Otherwise I'm sure our PCs wouldn't have been very happy.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, it just made little static bursts on speakers (even if they weren't being used -- it would make static bursts on speakerphones that were on-hook -- all they needed was to be powered) near the cell phone. I always assumed it was the cell phone transmitting it's data packets back to the network. It was really interesting to use in the car with the surround-sound system I had. It gave my friends pause about using my cell
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Funny)
Laugh, I heard somebody in a restaurant having this conversation once (of course I could only hear one side of it -- bet it would have been twice as funny with Nextel two-way):
"Did the results come back yet?"
"WHAT???? HERPES???? THAT F-ING BITCH!"
"AWWW MAN! That REALLY sucks!"
"That bitch! No man I used a condom! That slut!"
"Whatta gonna do?"
"YEAH THAT'LL TEACH HER! Stupid bimbo!"
The sad thing is that this conversation was in the middle of a busy pizzeri
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:3, Insightful)
After the initial handshake the sending power is reduced to a minimum needed to keep contact to the corresponding cell, and in most situations thats 1/10th or so of the peak transmission power.
So while the initial handshake will cause interferences (most likely short bursts of noice, in 1 second periods), later the power is to little.
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2, Informative)
Cell1: Hey, Bob's phone, are you still there.
Phone: Yeppers. Read you loud and clear.
Cell2: Can you hear me?
Phone: Yes, I hear you too.
Cell2: OK, just wanted to make sure.
Phone: Just send me a call if it comes in.
Cell1: Roger.
Cell2: Ditto.
Obviously that is not the technical terms for what is going on, but it seemed a little more humerous.
The importance of this is when you call someone whose phone is turned off, a lot of times it
Re:Sky high rates? (Score:2)
Could one chase the off-peakedness across time-zones?
Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
I never turn it off (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I never turn it off (Score:3, Informative)
Most of the civil aviation regulators of the world ban cellphones on flights, I really don't believe that they do so simply to make the network operators happy. There has been at least one crash (a CrossAir flight in Switzerland) which the official report blamed on a cellphone, and there is at least one post on this very thread from a pilot who says it is a real problem. But you know more than all of them right?
I don't get it... (Score:2)
I'm personally not scared of mobiles on planes, but breaking the rules just because you feel like it doesn't really benefit anyone.
Re:I never turn it off (Score:5, Insightful)
And then, just as the plane approaches for landing in a tricky crosswind, your phone comes within range of the radio tower, and starts receiving a bunch of SMS messages (the 'welcome to such-and-such network' ones, and yes, phones do transmit as well when receiving messages), and screws up the avionics. But now, there is very margin for error and that twitch might well cause a crash.
Not following these safety regulations on aircraft is not only illegal, it's utterly stupid.
Re:I never turn it off (Score:3, Funny)
Re:9-11 (Score:2)
Too complicated (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Too complicated (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Too complicated (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Too complicated (Score:5, Funny)
Fscking metric system.
The whole no phones in planes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:5, Informative)
- The FAA doesn't like them because of the longshot theory that radio waves of any kind might just add up to a signal that tricks autopilot or other navigational systems into glitching, causing the plane to crash. That's a long shot risk, but the disaster case is kinda a bad one if it ever happens.
- The FCC also has a ban because when you're in flight, you're always at least 6-8 miles away from the nearest cell tower. You end up communicating with too many towers and bogging down the network. One or two such calls is tolerable, but a whole plane load moving through would disrupt the ground-based users of the network.
This picocell concept solves both problems by moving the nearest cell tower to just a few feet away from the phone. Therefore, the phone kicks into its lowest power setting, and never talks to any other tower.
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:2)
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have one of the engines being fed erroneous data because the RF coming out of your iPod was interacting with the RF coming out of the laptop in the seat in front of you, and the GameBoy in the seat next to you, with the resulting harmonics affecting the air data signals being sent to the engine management computer.
Losing engine power on takeoff is not the way to a long,
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably because the airlines can still get a piece of the action with this scheme. They can do a deal with the phone companies to split an outrageously priced "roaming" fee for these calls. People would be much more likely to use their own phones than those crappy phones in the backs of seats. (I can't remember ever seeing anyone actually use one of those things.)
Even if they only charged half or less of the unbelievable current air phone price, the total call volume would g
Re:The whole no phones in planes (Score:2)
Heh, I can tell when my phone is about to ring becuase I hear a sort of drum-beat in every set of speakers (on or off) that are around me.
just what we've been waiting for... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:just what we've been waiting for... (Score:2)
GAAH! this will be awful (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh-oh... (Score:5, Interesting)
A brief scenario (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A brief scenario (Score:2)
Re:Uh-oh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uh-oh... (Score:2)
I recall a few months back, going to a movie (don't remember which one. It was supposed to be funny but apparently it didn't stick as such) and there was a couple in front of us with a 4 month old baby. Although I don't consider movie theartres an appropriate place for babies (mainly becasue of audio volume), the kid was adorable and slept the whole show through. When
Re:Uh-oh... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Uh-oh... (Score:2)
What up with that?
Is the danger real? (Score:4, Insightful)
So you'd rather... (Score:5, Informative)
There's lots of evidence that phones can interfere with navigation equipment, and from my experience as an audio engineer I can tell you digital cell phones can very easily intefere with electrical equipment, disrupting signals etc.
Re:So you'd rather... (Score:2)
Re:So you'd rather... (Score:2)
Re:So you'd rather... (Score:2)
About ten years ago there way a posting on sci.electronics where a guy who is an EE and a private pilot claimed that he could set up his autopilot to steer towards a ra
Re:Is the danger real? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Is the danger real? (Score:2, Informative)
Normally several adjacent towers pick up your signal, and then decide which one has the best signal quality. That tower then handles the signal. Remember, signal quality/strength is best with a line-of-sight to the cell tower. Well, on an
Re:Is the danger real? (Score:2, Insightful)
Most people don't understand the statistics involved when it comes to expected norms of commercial airplane safety. There are almost 10,000,000 commerical airplane flights a year so if unlimited cell phone crashed only 1 in 10,000,000 flights, one plane every year would be lost. Even if it's 1 in a 100,000,000, that's one plane every ten years. I just don't think it's a worth plane crash with potentially hundreds of passengers dead just so people can talk for cheap on their cell phones.
Look here fo [boeing.com]
Could prevent another 9-11 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Could prevent another 9-11 (Score:2)
Didn't realize the range was that great (Score:2)
Re:Didn't realize the range was that great (Score:2)
Re:Didn't realize the range was that great (Score:2)
Picocells are the future (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Picocells are the future (Score:4, Interesting)
--
Evan
Re:Picocells are the future (Score:2)
Obligatory Mobile Explainer (Score:3, Redundant)
CDMA the technology is rather better and is being used in a number of newer systems. GSM "version 2" is called UMTS, and has a configurable air interface which can be GSM's Time Division Multiple Access, EDGE (a more modern and efficient Time Division MA system), or a variant of Code Division Multiple Access (ie the CDMA the technology, not CDMA the mobile phone standard) called WCDMA, depending on the operator's preferences.
Only CDMA2000 is based upon CDMA the standard. UMTS is based upon GSM. TD-CDMA is a completely new system and isnt' based upon anything. It does use "CDMA the technology", but it certainly isn't related in any way, shape, or form to IS-95.
Re:Obligatory Mobile Explainer (Score:2)
CDMA the phone standard is junk, in all honesty, and is being phased out. The direct replacement for it is CDMA2000, which existing US IS-95 operators like Sprint PCS and Verizon are moving to.
I assume you are implying that the voice quality is junk. The cellular providers are under pressure to make a profit so that generally means they utilize lower bit-rate voice coders on their IS-95 networks (to get more users on a given bandwidth). cdma2000 uses the exact same voice coders (well there is a new on
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Price (Score:2)
Cost? (Score:5, Interesting)
Inside the US seat-back phone calls run $2-$3 per minute. I had to make a call over India from Lufthansa's satellite phone on Inmarsat's network at $10 per minute a few years ago. That was an expensive call.
Roaming on a $10 per minute network certaintly would keep the chatter to a minimum for those who don't want to listen to people on mobile phones in airplanes. SMS, however, would be very cool and should be very quiet.
Shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The RULE on all airplane flights should be, "Sit down, don't smoke, don't talk, shut the fuck up and read a book because hundreds of strangers need to get along so be fucking polite, please." That should be written on every ticket.
I can't stand how self-indulgent most people are, and how important they want to think they are, and can't go without a cell phone or a deep conversation about Cosmo magazine for a few hours. Grow the fuck up and learn to sit still and read something quietly on a place. Seriously.
This is technology being used in a very BAD way IMO.
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
I on the other hand... I have no objection to the person next to me talking on a mobile. Just so long as they are not talking to me. Not that i'm anti-social or anything, I've had the uncomfortable experence of someone trying to convert me to their religion.
I can see where a
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
People lately are letting their cell phones "ring" for 30 seconds or so. That's just waaaay too long.
maybe they are just insecure about themselves. But I'm geting tired and am to the point of leaning over and speaking very loudly "EXcuse me...phone call for you!"
I don't think I could take 40 phones going off at once in such a confined space. I know Lt. Cmdr. Data could discern all those tones, but could the phone owners?
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
I really wish they would look into other ways of fitting people in planes. I would love it if they could do it Japanese capsule hotel [japanvisitor.com] style (as long as each one is at least 6'5" long so I fit :-)
That way each person would only annoy themselves. Or perhaps they need an assholes and non-asshole section like the smoking/non-smoking sections of yore.
Re:Shit. (Score:2)
I find they do quite nicely at blocking out conversations, screaming babies, etc., while cocooning me in my own choice of music, not the crap the plane provides.
Get yourself a nice pair of closed-ear or in-ear phones. (Sony EX71SL is good blocker of amient noise)
They also work very well with this other thing I take on a plane, called an iPod.
Re:Shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. No matter how good you think your social skills are, or how impeccably perspicacious your banter may seem to you, I may not (and probably don't) want to hear it on a plane while I'm trying to read/sleep/watch a movie. See, we're stuck close together, I can't just move away from you like I might in another situation.
So yeah, I have to agree with the grandparent poster -- you really should keep conversations to a minimum, and at a very low volume, when flying. It's polite (i.e., a good social skill).
I'm not sure what the jab about being the other posters child was supposed to mean, but I for one would hate to share a plane with you if you think "good social skills" on a plane is anything other than shutting the fuck up as much as possible.
Pretty expensive uplink costs (Score:5, Insightful)
$20.00 / 6 hours = $3.33/hour
or
$30.00 / 6+ hours = ~$5.00/hour on East Coast US to Europe flights down to 1.50 an hour or so for those West Coast US to Australia flights.
& I thought 24.95 for a day's access at a conference was exorbitant!
Unless you're flying with a convention of mimes... (Score:2, Funny)
The airplane is one of my last refuges, keep it sacred!!
no, god. please no. (Score:2)
It's just a matter of time before the cellphone companies make cellphones somehow work on the subways. It's going to be so damn annoying the day that happens.
Re:no, god. please no. (Score:2)
Re:no, god. please no. (Score:3, Funny)
The airlines could test the markets... "cellular section" and a "no cellular section". Just like "wailing child section" and a "no wailing child section".
Toddlers are the worst. Some f-ing numbnuts came up with the idea that they shouldn't have their own seat. Have you ever seen a person try to hold down a three year old during takeoff? Have you sat next to them? I mean, your ears six inches from the toddler's face? Being spat on and scratched as the toddler tries desparately to escape his mother's
Soul Plane. (Score:2)
Look about 80 percent into the trailer. Beware, QuickTime required.
Re:Soul Plane. (Score:2)
But that's my quiet time (Score:3, Insightful)
Just relax... Read a book. Listen to some music (softly).
picocell? (Score:2)
Hey, who wants to talk on my femto-phone?
Douchebags.
What if... (Score:2)
What if didn't have to reread submissions before posting to Slashdot?
Who Cares about Cell Phones?! (Score:2)
Plus I don't want to hear people talking on the planes. The ones that do (on the tarmac) are VERY loud, annoying and very rude. Every single one of them yells into the phone so everybody knows half the conversations.
Has anybody actually seen anybody use the phones in the airplane? I haven't, and I've been playing my whole life.
IM access (Score:3, Insightful)
Brilliant! Why would I need to use a phone with some rediculous per-minute charge if I can chat with 5 people at once while in the air without disturbing other passengers nonetheless..
Email (POP3/SMTP) access was $20.
Flight attendants: bring extra zip ties (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously. I use my phone and stuff, but can we have some peace and quiet anywhere these days?!
Trains, planes (Score:3, Insightful)
hi! guess what! my cell phone works on the train! but it never seems to work quite right unless i yell into it!!
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
I am always amazed at the type-A people who have their finger poised over the power button when the wheels hit the ground so they can get on the phone to talk business.
I'm not talking about the worried flyers who call their wife/mom/kids/whoever to say they've arrived safely, but the big deal makers suffering cell phone withdrawal after 30 minute
Re:Nooooooooo!!!!! (Score:2)
(Well, as long as
(joke)
Yeah, I'd prefer if we keep airplanss cell free, for the annoyance factor. Perhaps if the picocell is sufficiently highly priced, includes 911 capabilities, and GPRS-or-better Internet capabilities, it'd be alright, reducing the chatter but enabling 'emergency' and perceived emergency calls?
As for the people complaining about the airplane being your onl