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Shifting From P2P To Stream Ripping

timothy posted about 10 years ago | from the too-bad-it's-such-a-pain dept.

Music 577

An anonymous reader submits "As users continue to try fending off the ever more litigious music industry, some seem to have dropped P2P entirely, moving to ripping instead. While they lose some control over what they are downloading, it's a untraceable way to download music (no way for the RIAA to track users or sue). With some of the more powerful software that's been coming out recently, stream ripping has become more main-stream. Some of the more well known software packages, like StationRipper, allow users to download several thousand songs on a daily basis. And, depending on how you read the law, it's 100% legal. How will the RIAA respond? As more users move to this type of technology to avoid the P2P lawsuits, how will the music industry respond?"

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577 comments

Good idea but... (5, Insightful)

sH4RD (749216) | about 10 years ago | (#8934479)

I have tried playing with a couple stream rippers before, only problem is streams tend to be real low quality...

Re:Good idea but... (0, Redundant)

millahtime (710421) | about 10 years ago | (#8934546)

I tried to do some stream ripping and got the same quality as the stream. Maybe it was the program I used. The streams themselves aren't the best quality might be the bigger problem.

Re:Good idea but... (1)

sH4RD (749216) | about 10 years ago | (#8934567)

Yes, it is more of the streams problem in quality then your own, the actual ripping programs are quite advanced. Many streams on the net are at 128kbps or less, unless you get some rarer indie streams.

Re:Good idea but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934551)

Someone please gimmme a link to a program to rip some real audio streams for windows or linux please.......

Re:Good idea but... (4, Insightful)

revmoo (652952) | about 10 years ago | (#8934554)

I have tried playing with a couple stream rippers before, only problem is streams tend to be real low quality...

Ever considered streaming from high-quality stations then?

Re:Good idea but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934712)

> Ever considered streaming from high-quality stations then?

What do you think? Care to tell us about them then?

Re:Good idea but... (5, Insightful)

pla (258480) | about 10 years ago | (#8934730)

Ever considered streaming from high-quality stations then?

Feel free to name a few - Either >256k/s, or >160k/s VBR (I don't know of any VBR streams, since streaming inherently tends to require CBR content)...

Although, I've asked before, and I'll probably ask again - Why not just rip from CDs borrowed from friends (or the library)? Equally untraceable (if not more so, since although they can't tell what you do with the stream, I'd imagine it must look exceedingly strange to see someone listening to half-a-dozen stations at a time, 24/7), and you get to have 100% control over the resulting rip. Best of all possible worlds - You get the songs, you get as high of a quality as you want, you get whatever format you prefer, and not even the person you borrow the CD from needs to know what you've done (although at least for friends, most really don't care, beyond asking for some reciprocation).

Like many /.'ers, I enjoy the use of the internet for almost all my informational needs; but sometimes, SneakerNet still offers advantages you just can't get anywhere online.

Re:Good idea but... (3, Informative)

nkh (750837) | about 10 years ago | (#8934663)

When you connect to a Shoutcast station, the server sends you a buffer of the music being played, and IIRC stream rippers just make a lot of fake connections to have the whole song by appending these buffers, that's why the quality should be the same.

What bothers me is that the program StationRipper [ratajik.com] claims it can record up to 300 streams at one time, when a usual 512k DSL connection is limited to 4 CD quality streams (128k mp3)...

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934481)

FP HAHAHAHAHAHHAH

Yes. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934483)

No.
P.S. FUCK DA GNAA

Just make sure... (5, Informative)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | about 10 years ago | (#8934484)

The station you rip is streaming their songs with the ID3 tags otherwise the software won't know when to stop one MP3 and start another one.

Re:Just make sure... (4, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | about 10 years ago | (#8934511)

Actually this really sucks when ripping from DI.FM... I find that it cuts the song off too early, and starts the next song too early.

The one time I let it rip a channel for an entire day and ended up with every song being useless, unless I play it back in the same order DI did, as a good 3 second shift occured in every song compared to the ID3 tag being broadcast... pain in the ass!

My parents used to do this (5, Insightful)

eaglebtc (303754) | about 10 years ago | (#8934485)

They would put a tape recorder up to the radio and capture the latest songs, then make copies for their friends. Sure it sounded bad but they didn't care. And neither did the RIAA, because their albums sounded better than the crappy copies the kids made, so they figured they would still want to go out and buy the latest album because of the high fidelity sound. Now that we can get digital copies they are sorely afraid. THe next move will be toward an encrypted stream, but as I always say...if you can hear it, you can rip it.

Re:My parents used to do this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934589)

ever heard of "line out"?

Re:My parents used to do this (5, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | about 10 years ago | (#8934605)

Not to mention, recording the analog out of a DirecTV box or another sound card sounds pretty clean as long as you've got good wires...

Analog copies aren't as lossy as they used to be, especially when you're recording a source that did most of its travelling digitally until the last moment.

If you can hear it, you can rip it, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934647)

"as I always say...if you can hear it, you can rip it."

Yeah, but then they'll invent and require brain implants to listen to their precious music. Then there isn't even any sound being transferred, just some proprietary, encrypted data. Oh darn! Now they'll steal my idea, oh well, too bad, I patented it!!!

Re:My parents used to do this (5, Informative)

pauls2272 (580109) | about 10 years ago | (#8934658)

"Sure it sounded bad but they didn't care. And neither did the RIAA..."

Actually they DID care. That is why a royalty is paid to record companies for every blank tape sold. To compensate them for the copying people did at home.

Re:My parents used to do this (2, Insightful)

macgyvr64 (678752) | about 10 years ago | (#8934717)

If you can hear it, you can rip it.

Darn right, that's what I say, too. If you're to hear the music before you buy it, the potential is there for it to be copied. I think the RIAA would prefer you just walk into a brick-and-mortar store and blindly buy CDs at their prices.
So far, I like the iTunes store. They've done a nice job with ease-of-use, prices, and DRM. I've messed with playfair, but I really have no need for it...maaaybe once in a while I decode a single song for a friend, but it's nothing that would bring down the music industry in one fell swoop :-P

Encrypted streams sounds good. I read elsewhere that some RIAA-backed company is about to deliver a P2P scanning tool (or something like that..) that checks audio fingerprints. If we just gzipped files or used some basic encryption, it could be easily made useless.

How the industry will respond. (1, Offtopic)

teamhasnoi (554944) | about 10 years ago | (#8934489)

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHNNNnnnnnnnnnn!

I'd say that's pretty accurate. Oh, and poke people's ears out with ice picks.

Re:How the industry will respond. (2, Informative)

nacturation (646836) | about 10 years ago | (#8934622)

Oh, and poke people's ears out with ice picks.

Um, how exactly does one poke an ear out? Isn't that like using a shovel to remove a hole?

In Soviet Russia (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934491)

In Soviet Russia, rip STREAMS YOU!!!

Re:In Soviet Russia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934515)

streams rip you, moron.

Re:In Soviet Russia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934699)

actually that would be the obvious conversion

you rip streams
flips to
streams rip you
but more clever and inspiring visions of humans experiencing faster then light travel is the conversion the original poster used:

"rip streams you"

so it wasn't the standard flip/flop conversion, which would have not been funny.

hence his was funny, cause it WAS NOT the standard conversion.

hence the mod up.

so smart ass, YOU FAIL IT.

Re:In Soviet Russia (1, Troll)

Fazer (636882) | about 10 years ago | (#8934625)

You mean In Soviet Russia, streams rip you! Oh and in Soviet Russia, Girls like you!

the way it should be (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934494)

f*ck the riaa.

been stream ripping ever since i found out what 'metadata' was.

winamp!

(first post?)

How would the RIAA respond? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934495)

Why, bribe^h^h^h^h^hLobby Congress to make it illegal, of course.

cant see why i'd want this (1)

st0rmshadow (643869) | about 10 years ago | (#8934499)

Aren't there a lot of P2P programs that already prevent being traced? I don't think I like the idea of not having full control over what I'm getting, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people feel the same way.

Re:cant see why i'd want this (1)

dotslasher_sri (762515) | about 10 years ago | (#8934553)

When ripping stream you can be sure that the stream is the song u want. P2P programms like Kazaa have a lot of fake files. thats an advantage right ?

Sri

Re:cant see why i'd want this (2, Insightful)

real_smiff (611054) | about 10 years ago | (#8934574)

> Aren't there a lot of P2P programs that already prevent being traced?

No, there aren't, because P2P by its nature requires each peer to know the address of the other peers.. and "anonymous" networks like Freenet are hopeless for music (so slow & poor content). You may be getting confused by blocklists which prevent certain address ranges connecting with your P2P client.

Re:cant see why i'd want this (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934732)

This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

Why are you shooting Slashdot?

PCP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934500)

File sharing sucks ass, d00d!!!

Peace.

Expect "internet radio" to disappear (5, Insightful)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | about 10 years ago | (#8934505)

If a respectable number of P2P users switch to this, internet radio itself will be attacked. It has already been attacked, actually, but P2P was a bigger boogeyman.

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (3, Interesting)

millahtime (710421) | about 10 years ago | (#8934524)

I don't expect Internet Radio to dissappear. It isn't illegal like P2P sharing copywritten songs. If anything they might become regulated and get comercials but I really doubt it will dissappear.

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (2)

L0stm4n (322418) | about 10 years ago | (#8934705)

wanna make a bet it wont disappear? Every online radio station I know of is barely keeping the servers up. Most are taking donations. If it has to go commercial, it'll just die.

check out www.afterhoursdjs.org
and www.smoothbeats.com
and www.bassdrive.com

these are all great stations and I know people from all of them. The riaa starts wanting any more money and we'll all be closing up shop.

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 10 years ago | (#8934611)

Is satellite radio digital? Hook up an XM receiver to mic input...

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (1)

name773 (696972) | about 10 years ago | (#8934646)

but the mic input is analog.
toslink would be a more digital option, but idk if those recievers support it

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (1)

LostCluster (625375) | about 10 years ago | (#8934644)

So long as it remains a complex and unreliable setup, it's not really that much of a threat. If you get 90% of a song, but the starting and ending segments are mucked up by a station liner, the RIAA isn't going to mind, there's still enough incentive to want to buy a "clean" copy.

Re:Expect "internet radio" to disappear (2, Interesting)

jd (1658) | about 10 years ago | (#8934700)

Unlikely, because bandwidth is more limited, as you've a central point that has to transmit the data. The only way it can work on an unlimited basis is by multicast, but ISPs won't enable it - evil, sick b******s that they are.

This is THE stupidest thing i've ever heard (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934506)

With P2P media is:
On demand.
Whatever quality you want.
Limited only by connection speed.
Easy.
Searchable.
And so on.

Screw stream ripping!

Re:This is THE stupidest thing i've ever heard (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934695)

(and so on = aka. Traceable by the Moneymen at the RIAA)

Be careful loading 20GB of Somafm in to your iPod (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934507)

The idea feels really really good at first but it's damn near impossible to navigate around after that. I've got all these one song albums and crap now.

Don't get me wrong, I've got non-stop beats and ambient grooves and that's nice, I just can't find the shit I actually ripped myself anymore.

How will the respond? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934509)

I dunno, they'll either change their business model, or find a way to continue to exist through litigation. Who knows how they'll respond. Your guess is as good as mine.

Re:How will the respond? (2, Funny)

localhost00 (742440) | about 10 years ago | (#8934577)

I dunno, they'll either change their business model, or find a way to continue to exist through litigation.

I dunno, I think SCO might sue them for that......

Re:How will the respond? (1)

LithiumX (717017) | about 10 years ago | (#8934653)

Naw, I think Thomas Edison still holds the patent on that, at least for the next few decades.

Re:How will the respond? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934675)

Actually, in Soviet Russia, you sue the RIAA.....

Oooooh, I'm packing my bags!

home taping (4, Insightful)

potpie (706881) | about 10 years ago | (#8934516)

In the 80's, it was believed (by large record companies mainly) that home taping of radio broadcasts was killing music. This is the exact same thing as home taping, and home taping is perfectly legal (is that time shifting or space shifting or something)! So really, there is no legal or moral reason not to do it, and the RIAA can't very well (unless I have too much faith in human reason- I hope not) sue people for taping the same broadcasts they get from the radio if they get it from the internet. That just seems far too arbritrary a lawsuit to happen... but the thought still scares me for some reason.

Re:home taping (4, Insightful)

BCW2 (168187) | about 10 years ago | (#8934597)

Go back to the early 70's, the death of the music industry was going to be the - cassette tape. Actually heard the exact samr quotes from industry execs back then as the ones they used against Napster. I mean word for word, like the quality of their product, the good speach writers are from the past.

The funny thing was that no matter how good a system you had, a home recording never beat store bought.

What's the equivalent for movies? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934522)

What's the equivalent app for ripping the audio/video feed from Windows Media player?

stream ripping is nice to distract the RIAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934528)

the beauty of this is that it causes the RIAA to have to now look at this as well.. eventutally they will be spread to thin and it will all stop..

the more information flowing the better

Satellite Radio XM PCR (5, Interesting)

Broadband (602443) | about 10 years ago | (#8934529)

As you know, XM Radio has a receiver for the Computer (XM PCR) that shows the music ID etc and a high quality stream with 120 channels. I wonder if any one thought of writing a software to rip the stream digitally?

streamripper (5, Informative)

quelrods (521005) | about 10 years ago | (#8934531)

don't forget streamripper.sourceforge.net They have support for just abt every os under the sun and if all else fails you can recompile yourself. I think finding a stream that spends 50% or more of it's time playing music you enjoy and ripping results in nice collection. (I do this because our bandwith at work is overused and streaming doesn't work out so well.)

First Post for Beautiful Dru Sjodin!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934532)

Dru Sjodin, as Nordic as they come, in all likelihood raped and for-certain murdered by one of the tens of millions of pieces of SHIT from Mexico now circulating among American humans. This murder can be laid directly at the feet of jews like Abe Foxman - the ONLY ones who wanted the border opened. Your daughtered raped and murdered by coloreds is a symptom, JEW IS THE DISEASE. VOTE NAZI IN 2004 FOR AN ARYAN AMERICA!!!!

How about this from the article itself (4, Interesting)

spoco2 (322835) | about 10 years ago | (#8934535)

Seeing as though the posting is a direct copy and paste of the techdirt article... how about we also read the bit that comes straight after that on their site which states that, really, this is hardly a threat to P2P...
"Well, some of the comments are a bit misleading. It's not clear just how mainstream this technology really is, and it's certainly not nearly as user friendly for users as basic file sharing applications. The idea is that it records songs directly from streaming radio stations (though, right now, it looks like only certain kinds of streaming radio stations work with the software). Also, copying a song off the radio (which is this basically equivalent to) often involves a lower quality offering with songs cutting into each other, DJs talking over the music and other radio-related reasons why it's not the same as getting a full track. "

I used to tape of the radio too, and ended up knowing songs as ending with 'And that was Vanilla Ice on 2KBY7 with the HOT Ice, Ice Baby... Keep rockin' dude... yeaaah'.*

It's not the same as a pure track... plus, as it says... crap quality.

* No, I didn't actually have any Vanilla Ice tracks on tape... no... really.

Re:How about this from the article itself (1)

pjt33 (739471) | about 10 years ago | (#8934676)

I used to record a side of a tape from the radio, listen to it for songs I liked, then carefully copy them to another tape, starting after the lead in, and recording over the lead out with low volume white noise.

The obvious answer (3, Insightful)

BCW2 (168187) | about 10 years ago | (#8934540)

how will the music industry respond?

As stupidly as possible, just like normal.

Keys to the kingdom for $9.95?!? (5, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | about 10 years ago | (#8934542)

Actually, for a small monthly fee you can have the nearly the whole world of RIAA music streaming at you by request.

$9.95 a month to Real Rhapsody will get you access to Real's entire library of 500,000ish songs in Real's streaming format, and $9.95 a month to the new Napster will get you access to Napster's library of 500,000ish songs in Windows Media format. In both cases, they've yet to establish a limit as to how many streams you can get per month.

Clearly, there's a rather gaping hole if you're able to save either of those sets of streams into any non-DRMed format.

Re:Keys to the kingdom for $9.95?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934626)

Multiple simultaneous streams? Like one for each ear in the household, including the cat and dog?

Should have been named ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934547)

Shifting From "Low Quality" To "Worse Quality"

My response: No Thanks! Now Beat It, Kid!

well... (1)

Soothh (473349) | about 10 years ago | (#8934550)

this again is an example of what NOT to post.
because other sites pick stuff up, etc.. and things get noticed, bittorrent may have been a viable source for alot longer if only people spread the word to friends and so on, rather than posting for the whole world to see, so thanks to the jackass that put in the post, because now all the online radio streams are going to get pushed out too.

What I dont want to hear in my stream rips.. (4, Funny)

SCSi (17797) | about 10 years ago | (#8934556)

.......(buffering)......(buffering).......

xmms saves streams just fine (1)

morelife (213920) | about 10 years ago | (#8934560)

Quality's not so hot, and subject to buffering problems based on your network connection. Also, the content isn't necessarily separated by track, nor easily identified later...

I've saved some really nice ambient streams but have no frikkin' idea what's on 'em..

Re:xmms saves streams just fine (2, Informative)

dotslasher_sri (762515) | about 10 years ago | (#8934600)

StationRipper actually seperates the songs and saves them by their names. try it..it works!.

Stream ripping easy does it with your friend Linux (4, Informative)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 10 years ago | (#8934571)

I've been doing that with ALSA under Linux, and SoundBlaster Live! cards for a long time. No need to dowload anything. Here's how:

Start alsamixer

Set the capture source to "wave"

Jack up the "wave capture" setting

Capture the stream (or anything currently playing in fact) from /dev/dsp

Just think people have been bitching and moaning about the truly staggering number of ALSA settings for SB-Lives!, now see how it's useful?

Say goodbye to the Free internet... (1)

slittle (4150) | about 10 years ago | (#8934575)

As more users move to this type of technology to avoid the P2P lawsuits, how will the music industry respond?
They'll probably get the DJ's to sing along, badly out of tune, in addition to talking over the first and last 10 seconds of each track.

*shudder*

Interesting. (1)

hot_Karls_bad_cavern (759797) | about 10 years ago | (#8934578)

i've moved to streaming only 24/7 at work and home from places such as DigitallyImported and SomaFM (kickass). i've wondered how it would work out to start recording the streams and just keeping them.

P2P is not something that i really even use anymore. As for the legality of streamripping, which i think is a very, poorly chosen term, how can it be illegal to keep something that is coming into your home anyway? If i'm not re-broadcasting it, it should never be illegal.

De-mucking songs? (2, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | about 10 years ago | (#8934580)

Most "radio stations", including the all-music channels on digital cable or DirecTV and Dish tend to muck up the starting and ending of songs with at least a crossfade between the songs if not a liner or DJ chatter over the song.

However, couldn't software recognize the same song being played repeatedly by a station... and then identify the actual layers within the overlaps by what's found in all instances. In the end, it could take 8 hours of music in, and give back the 25 or so songs the station played more than once nice and clean.

Ohh... would the RIAA hate that. No distribution, just the recording of a legal broadcast.

Winamp - ml_www (5, Interesting)

lotsofno (733224) | about 10 years ago | (#8934584)

One of the cooler new ways of sharing music with my friends that I've been playing around with is the ml_www plug-in for Winamp (It was one of Justin Frankel's farewell gifts). The application lets you or anyone else access your media collection from anywhere, and stream or download your audio/video through a browser interface. Of course you can set up passwords and access privelidges. You can pick a song to listen to on your home computer while in the office; stuff like that.

All you need is a Winamp running with the plug-in, and someone--probably someone you trust--drops in your IP in a browser and one of these two windows pops up [flet.ch] , depending on which template you're using. You can download the newest versions here [chrisdsmith.com] .

There's a sourceforge project [sourceforge.net] going on for the plug-in, but they haven't really brought that site up to speed yet. Most of the progress is in this Winamp Forums thread [winamp.com] , with some occasional updates on Winamp Unlimited [inthegray.com] .

So what's the difference (2, Interesting)

InsaneGeek (175763) | about 10 years ago | (#8934587)

Sure there's a difference in that you are doing the equivalent of tape recording the radio, but legally there really isn't much of a difference.

I don't really see much of a difference here. It's not the downloading that the *AA have been getting people for it's the sharing. If you leached only the *AA would let you do it to your hearts content.

If someone is legally broadcasting that's basically the same as someone legally sharing a file unlike illegally broadcasting content which is the same as someone sharing a file they don't have distribution rights to. Legally it's the same to put out a stream you don't have rights to or put share out a file you don't have rights to.

Everybody gets wrapped up in the "download" portion and unfortunately get screwed because they've only paid attention to download instead of upload. Maybe if the fined P2P users had been worrying about uploading instead of downloading they wouldn't be getting fined.

This is news?! (1)

FlashingMonk (659216) | about 10 years ago | (#8934598)

I've been doing this for well over a year. XMMS does this pretty well. I just hop on shoutcast and grab a 128K stream I like... groove salad baby!

H.W. Reply to this post please (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934610)

Heidi Wall we luvs you!!! You have a totally
hot bod, and I want to have sex with you for
friggs sake. I wish to plant the seed
of L*O*V*E in the pot of your belly! If you
read this post pls reply, and we can set it
all up. Ill be here waiting. Longning eyes, in
the night.

This might be a move they like (1)

TedTschopp (244839) | about 10 years ago | (#8934616)

OK, so the stream isn't high quality (like radio), you generally don't have the ability to choose which songs you listen to on the stream (like radio) and on top of all this, this can tie the streaming audio problems togehter with the digital media problem. This might be a good comprimise. Now granted you can pay to get a higher quality stream and more features like the ability to choose the songs on the stream would be a nice way to make some money off all this.

The industry will respond... (1)

sreeram (67706) | about 10 years ago | (#8934617)

... with a huge HURRAH!



This only shows that their scare tactics have worked. Remember, there used to be some uncertainty there. In the beginning, when RIAA launched the suits, the estimated number of P2P users dropped dramatically, but after a while, it stabilized (or increased; I don't recall).



This is as clear a signal as any that the RIAA's lawsuit-mongering works for them.

stream ripping vs. radio (1)

quizwedge (324481) | about 10 years ago | (#8934633)

IANAL, but from what I recall, copying on a tape from the radio is legal because it goes over the public airwaves. I would assume (no, I didn't read the article) that this would be how they're trying to infer that stream ripping is legal.

The problem with stream ripping used to be the quality but with 300k audio streams, ripping seems to be a good alternative for fileswappers. What will the RIAA do? Probably one of two options. (1) Ban internet radio (2) increase the royalties of internet radio to either (a) cut it completely or (b) limit it to large stations that they can better control.

Sony Betamax and Grokster (2, Interesting)

pdcryan (748847) | about 10 years ago | (#8934656)

There are two reasons that stream-ripping will slip through the courts:

1. Under the Sony Betamax case, time shifting is fair use. Under the Rio case, space shifting is fair use. So long as those cases hold up - the only difference between time shifting your TV with a VCR, and stream ripping is the quality. Basically, there may be no copyright violation here.

2. Even if there is a copyright violation (I don't think there will be), the Grokster case said that where a software provider doesn't know about infringing uses, they are not contributing to copyright violations. Stream rippers, like Grokster, are out of the loop. There's no central database here. Don't forget, that even if RIAA is successful (which I don't think they will be here), who would they sue? Many streamrippers are open source, and distributed development projects. Lots of stones to turn over.

What will RIAA do? Shut down the stations. I'd be surprised if Roxio's Napster 2 will be allowed to continue to use their 9.95 all you can eat streaming service for much longer.

Questions: No record? Legal? (1, Insightful)

David Hume (200499) | about 10 years ago | (#8934659)


it's a untraceable way to download music (no way for the RIAA to track users or sue).


How is it untraceable? As I understand it (and I could be wrong), when one listens to streamed music over the web (as opposed to music broadcast over the air waves), one must make a specific recordable connection with the source of the music. Your IP number will be recorded somewhere.

Perhaps what is meant is that while there will be a record that you were listening, there will be no proof that you were recording. Indeed, contrary to downloading a MP3, the presumption will be that you "only" listening and nothing (useable) remained on your hard drive.

Of course if enough people do this, that presumption will be reversed. Imagine a world where 95% of the people have and use software that will, with one click, correctly snip, save, and index every song streamed to their computers. When this happens, the RIAA will make a case that streaming a song is for all practical purposes the same as uploading an MP3 of the same song, and thus subject to the same copyright considerations.

And, depending on how you read the law, it's 100% legal.


Really? How? What interpretation of the law supports this? Any precedents? Your "right" to "back-up" that which you never owned rights to in the first place?

People have always recorded music off of the radio, and always will. However, that never made it "legal"; only cost-ineffective to police or prohibit. The one click recording of perfect digital data will be perceived as something different.

The makers of this software have probably just increased the likelihood of point to point DRM.

Cognitive dissonance (2, Insightful)

no_opinion (148098) | about 10 years ago | (#8934662)

Hey, rather than justifying new ways to get music without paying why don't you people shell out a measly $10/month for the 400,000 tracks on Rhapsody or Napster so that the artist can get something for their trouble?

downloading MP3 is legal anyway (1)

mars9820 (622258) | about 10 years ago | (#8934673)

Yeah exactly overhere (in Taiwan). There is a law in place that makes downloading MP3 legal for personal use even when you don't own the album. And as you understand we don't have a RIAA here. WOW. This is truely paradise :P

Taiwan? Not perfect (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934720)

"Yeah exactly overhere (in Taiwan). There is a law in place that makes downloading MP3 legal for personal use"

It may be a free country and all, but not many nations have the situation Taiwan is: an enemy nation just a few miles away with 100 times the population that has sworn to destroy it.

Welcom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934674)

I for one welcome our new stream ripping overlords

Re:Welcom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#8934692)

Comment Submitted. There will be a delay before the comment becomes part of the static page. What you submitted appears below. If there is a mistake...well, you should have used the 'Preview' button!

ripping (0)

nnet (20306) | about 10 years ago | (#8934677)

winamp, xmms, mpg123, and oggenc are capable of writing what they stream to disk, this isn't news, or new.

Stream ripping with merged bits from P2P downloads (1)

joelparker (586428) | about 10 years ago | (#8934678)

If you can legally rip a stream, can you use enhancement tools to improve the quality?

And can these enhancement tools download higher-quality bits from P2P systems?

In other words, once you're able to listen to the song (on a low quality stream), do you have any rights to listen to a higher-quality version (downloaded P2P)?

The law... (2, Funny)

PeteQC (680043) | about 10 years ago | (#8934683)

And, depending on how you read the law, it's 100% legal.

So i guess it comes down to: And, depending on who has the best lawyers...

strongarming (2, Funny)

hellmarch (721948) | about 10 years ago | (#8934688)

Eventually the RIAA will make more money by scaring people into settling with them than they make from actual record sales. When this happens they will stop making albums and with no new albums to copy piracy will come to a screeching halt. Then with their pockets full of ill-gotten booty the RIAA will move to the Cayman Islands and relax on a beach drinking martinis and being serviced by pool boy sex slaves.

Two words (2, Insightful)

ArchAngelQ (35053) | about 10 years ago | (#8934690)

And those are:
Lobbying
Litigation

That's how they will respond. I would bet a years supply of the best coffee beans money could buy on it.

bad pun (3, Funny)

dj245 (732906) | about 10 years ago | (#8934698)

stream ripping has become more main-stream.

How about "Having halfway crossed the legal hurdles, stream ripping still has quite an upriver swim before it becomes mainstream"

Or maybe "Stream ripping, while not quite the open floodgates that bittorrent is, is gaining in popularity..."

Or, if you don't like it, "Stream ripping may soon come under the guns of the RIAA and have nowhere to go but downstream."

re: depending on how you read the law... (4, Insightful)

lsdino (24321) | about 10 years ago | (#8934707)

And, depending on how you read the law, it's 100% legal.

This is exactly what was said about Napster, look at how long that lasted. I think its a bit of a pipe dream to believe that there will be a legal way to acquire large amounts of copyrighted music for free w/o the consent of the copyright holder.

And on the off chance it was legal to do this you can be sure that Congress would put a stop to it pretty fast.

What is stationripper? (1)

polyp2000 (444682) | about 10 years ago | (#8934713)

The principle of stationripper sounds pretty cool. But using it , is it possible to download entire tunes "as if" they were ripped from a cd ? Is the quality comparable to an mp3 that you might download? My initial thoughts and impressions of streamed music are that generally speaking the quality is inferior.

nick...

Streamripper is cool, but stationripper (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | about 10 years ago | (#8934715)

is M$ only, that sucks.

I just upgraded streamripper to 1.60-pre1 and it seems to have solved a lot of the "mpglib error at: xxxxxx" errors I was getting before with the 1.32 I was using.

I just rip indie stuff so don't get your panties in a knot, this sure makes it 100% easier than downloading the files one at a time.
I even set Kalarm to start and stop streamripper at night, when they play the best stuff..

I love it..

They can always just shut down the streamers... (1)

foidulus (743482) | about 10 years ago | (#8934719)

A while back, a local radio station in Pittsburgh(WXDX, one of the 6 radio stations that got fined over the whole Howard Stern thing) about 5 or 6 years ago, before stream rippers even were common, used to stream the radio station so you could hear it anywhere. However, not to long after they started it, someone(assuming the RIAA) forced them to stop streaming is because of, "copyright issues" they said they were working to try to get it back up, as far as I know, they never did.

What the RIAA idiots will do then (1)

synergy3000 (637810) | about 10 years ago | (#8934721)

The RIAA will force internet radio stations (legit ones) to put in little blurbs over the music saying this is broadcast from such and such station. I think they use that somewhat in Europe.

Broadcasters: Turn off crossfading (4, Insightful)

Sarojin (446404) | about 10 years ago | (#8934734)

It's really annoying when you get bits of the surrounding songs on your saved music. Turning off crossfading will facilitate smooth ripping. Thank you.

I was doing this for a while. I streamed in about 15 niche stations that played the kind of music I liked, and got a lot of music. The error rate was fairly high, and I ended up with a lot of duplicates, but I found a lot of good music, and filled in some gaps in my collection.
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