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Machinima - Spielbergs with a Joystick

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the popping-up-everywhere-lately dept.

Movies 176

securitas writes "The Toronto Star's Murray Whyte writes about the growing popularity of machinima as the birth of a new type of filmmaking and artform. The article largely focuses on Red vs. Blue but also discusses Jim Munroe's My Trip To Liberty City, in which 'Munroe adopts the genteel perspective of a Canadian tourist while meandering the seamy, violent streets of the game Grand Theft Auto.' The most interesting comment comes from the Academy of Machinima Arts and Sciences' Paul Marino who compares machinima to garage bands."

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3rd post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934866)

haha 3rd post fuckers!

!!NEWSFLASH: CEREN ERCEN MARRIES COWBOY NEAL! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935193)

read all about it! [tinyurl.com]

Re:!!NEWSFLASH: CEREN ERCEN MARRIES COWBOY NEAL! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935242)

Thank you! That was one of the most informative news stories I've ever read. You, sir, should be moderated +5 gigglebum!

Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (-1, Flamebait)

RobPiano (471698) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934870)

Machinima is a big steaming pile of dodo and I don't care who knows it (notice not posting anonymously). Comparing them to a garage band is an insult to garage bands everywhere. A garage band usually takes at least a couple of kids to buy a few instruments and maybe took a lesson or two. They aren't creating anything very important and they know it, but its about pursuing an impossible dream and pissing of your parents. I give garage bands serious creditability because nobody expects anything from them.

Machinima people don't seem to know how to write, draw, sing, dance, direct, film or much of anything else very well. Near as I can tell they their best skill is making hype and having a vested interest in playing video games.

So what?

There are dozens and dozens of video game fan sites who do better jobs of video game praise. Most of these sites don't fancy themselves special for doing it either. Like the garage band, the successful underground scene is the one who doesn't call themselves internet superstars. I haven't seen a single piece of Machinima where I thought they were able to put the whole package together. Something that was skillful throughout. In movies, hundreds of people, all of whom do their job amazingly well, work together to make something that may be a complete flop. Machinima doesn't seem to do any one thing particularly well and is mass produced like pogs or mcdonald's cheeseburgers.

As a kid, my neighbors and I used to put on plays in the basement. Maybe I should put them on the internet and start hyping it as post-modern reflectionism and sell stills on Cafe Press. Get yourself some creditability already.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934903)

You keep thinking that. I'll be sitting here trying to develop a business model.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934916)

(notice not posting anonymously)

Wow, I'm impressed! We have a real tough guy right, folks, one who ain't afraid to take direct negative moderations in the face and stand the tremendous pain without so much as a wince.

A true modern poet warrior. You Sir are just my complete hero.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (4, Funny)

nomadic (141991) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934922)

Machinima people don't seem to know how to write, draw, sing, dance, direct, film or much of anything else very well.

See? They ARE like garage bands.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (4, Insightful)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934930)

Mods, please mod this steaming pile of flamebait crap down. Parent obviously has no idea what kind of work goes into producing a piece of machinima, let alone writing the script for one.

While your opinion may be that it sucks, a very LARGE number of people think there is some very decent machinima out there, Red Vs Blue being the best example. I think it is one of the funniest cartoons I've seen on the net and the way they produce it shows that they put a lot of effort into planning it out.

You also seem to not understand that they aren't necessarily doing it because they're huge fans of the game, it just happens to be their medium. What an extremely ignorant post.

If you think you can do any better, then please, by all means do so, until then I suggest you not comment on how poor you think the quality of their work is.

Welcome to the new /. (-1, Offtopic)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934980)

Welcome to the new /. where group think is required.

If you deviate any from the accepted way of thinking your post will be mod bombed because those doing the moding are cowards who would rather hide ideas they do not agree with rather than debate the issues.

IOW, cowards.

Re:Welcome to the new /. (3, Informative)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935016)

I'm not saying group think is required. Some other people have said they didn't like Red VS. Blue, and that's fine - that's their opinion. But saying that everybody who does machinima is completely devoid of talent in a long list of areas is, well, flamebait.

Re:Welcome to the new /. (-1, Troll)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935038)

Yes, you are. You called for the parent to be moded down so it would not be seen.

An intellegent response to the parent would have made a lot more sense and would not have made you look like someone who can not stand people that disagree with them.

Re:Welcome to the new /. (0, Offtopic)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935049)

Um, try reading my name sometime. I'm not the same person you were initially responding to, so, uh, maybe you shouldn't talk about intellegent responses. ^_^

Re:Welcome to the new /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935066)

intelligent is spelled with an i

I am the last person who should have made this comment...

Re:Welcome to the new /. (-1, Troll)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935094)

You agree with the other post, the post that called for the parent to be mod bombed.

THAT puts you into the same catagory.

Re:Welcome to the new /. (0, Offtopic)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935134)

Did I ever say "I agree with every opinion expressed in Lord Whatshisface's post"? No. I do agree with the general opinion (very general) but I do not agree that the parent should be modded down. And even if I was in the same category, you said that I (myself) said he should be modded down, which would still be wrong.

Re:Welcome to the new /. (2, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935372)

"But saying that everybody who does machinima is completely devoid of talent in a long list of areas is, well, flamebait."

Gotta say I agree. Frankly, people with a creative spark can make something entertaining with just about anything. Remember the Star Wars kid trailers that hit the net last year? I don't remember a fancy term like machima being used for that. It was a creative outlet, and it was exhausted. We all had a few good laughs, though because some peeps stepped up to the plate and demonstrated some talent.

I'm a little surprised that this is being considered as a new genre. I mean we've had puppets for years, this is essentially a digital extension of it. Eh oh well.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (0, Redundant)

RobPiano (471698) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934981)

Artists invest their whole life, not a week/month/year, to often make things that are much more harshly criticized than I do to Machinima.

I do appreciate the person's comment who said "Its a new form of art like improvised theater". Notice, I never said that it wasn't art, just that there hadn't been anything that was particularly well done throughout. There is potential for there to be great art there, but as an artist would tell you, the potential for art exists in all things.

Also notice I don't tell other people how to think (or how to mod), I just offer an opinion.

Here's an example of flamebait:

Were you moded up because you said something insightful or something predictable.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (1)

Deraj DeZine (726641) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935054)

A very large number of people think that this is some very decent pop music, too.

As for the "you can't comment until you've done better" argument, I'll just say that I've never found that one convincing. People will whine about anything no matter their level of experience.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (2, Insightful)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935096)

"As for the "you can't comment until you've done better" argument, I'll just say that I've never found that one convincing. People will whine about anything no matter their level of experience."

I usually don't go there either - most people who review stuff don't claim they could literally make a better piece, but when the "review" consists of a long list of things that the artists suck at, well, it is tempting.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935397)

Have you been sleeping with the mods or what? Agreeing with someone and getting modded insightful?

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (4, Insightful)

Dirtside (91468) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935222)

If you think you can do any better, then please, by all means do so, until then I suggest you not comment on how poor you think the quality of their work is.
Bullshit. By this criterion, I shouldn't be allowed to tell people what I think of food if I can't cook, what I think of a movie if I don't know how to make one, what I thought of a novel if I couldn't write one, or what I think of a painting if I can't draw.

You quite definitely don't need to know how to cook to know that something tastes terrible. And you don't need to know how to do machinima to watch one and say it sucks. (Or that it's good!)

You also missed the flipside of your argument -- if you can't comment on it until you've done one, then you shouldn't say it's good, either, because what do you know?

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935561)

A lot of people think that putting a lot of time into something makes it better. It doesn't - it just means you put a lot of time into it. Remember Sin?

That's a common misconception about art, I guess.

so what? (4, Insightful)

d4v3v1l (728709) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934941)

A new medium, thats what.

Before, there was bacially no possibility to create any animation in the same way you would create improvised theatre. ( which is an art form, by the way... )

Of course, most of what we see today is still quite rudimentary, if not to say downright crap. But the potential is there.

Sometimes, it's hard to NOT feed the trolls... (2, Interesting)

josh glaser (748297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934953)

Go make a better machinima, then. I dare you. I mean, since you apparently can "write, draw, sing, dance, direct, film" and everything else better than anybody currently making machinima, I'm sure it'll be a instant classic. Or the next web fadjoke. If you are actually comparing machinima to a Hollywood movie, you are (a) stupid and (b) missing the entire point. Nobody who makes machinima is claiming that their machinima is better than anything Hollywood puts out. That's nuts. Comparing the two is nuts. They know that, I know that, everybody seems to know that but you.

Re:Sometimes, it's hard to NOT feed the trolls... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935113)

If you are actually comparing machinima to a Hollywood movie, you are (a) stupid and (b) missing the entire point. Nobody who makes machinima is claiming that their machinima is better than anything Hollywood puts out.

Although, I've got to admit, Troops (the combination of COPS and Star Wars) is just hilarious. Much better than a lot of Hollywood dreck.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934976)

You sound like a pseudointellectual who's a little miffed that there's an art form out there that you don't 'get', when you believe you are supposed to 'get' all art because that's, well, the artsy thing to do.

The following statement applies to not only this subject, but other "what's the point" kind of posts: if you need to ask, you're not part of the intended audience.

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (5, Funny)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935128)

This sounds an awful lot like that "rock and roll" all the young pups are talking about. Likewise, it takes little talent to perform, as all it is is a bunch of grunting and screaming and loud crashing. It will never take off I tell you, as sooner or later people will realize that these rock stars are a bunch of no talent losers who couldn't play music to save their lives.

Sound familiar?

Re:Its new, its shiny, it smells like a truck stop (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935154)

It's new, it's shiny, it smells like a truck stop... it's Rob Piano's asshole!

Record Function? (5, Interesting)

RexHowland (71795) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934881)

In Burns's house in Austin, Tex., they gather to `shoot' the episodes using the game console's record function.

Is my Xbox missing something, or is this a lovely little piece of misinformation?

Re:Record Function? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934905)

hit the red circle button on your VCR and there you go.

Re:Record Function? (1)

dastuff (771383) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935144)

What are you talking about... Didn't you ever notice the big red button on the side of your xbox...

It's just records right onto your 8 gig harddrive :)

And interestingly enough xbox is also able to double as a cappacino machine.

Re:Record Function? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935248)

Yeah, the optional Xbox addon dubbed only VCR allows you to record. I can sell you one, brand new for only $99 plus S&H.

Re:Record Function? (2, Interesting)

u-238 (515248) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935264)

T.V. output is typically recorded with a video capture card.. much different in the case of computer game movie making, which can very easily be done with an app called fraps [fraps.com] , which can capture anything displayed on screen.

Most games, though, like half-life, have the ability built in (called demo recording, mostly used to catch hackers), and everything can be done software-wise. That's the great advantage, anyone who has a modern computer and a few cooperating friends has the ability to get into this hobby. Doesn't get much more accessable.

Re:Record Function? (3, Funny)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935289)

"Is my Xbox missing something, or is this a lovely little piece of misinformation?"

Well I'm not an X-BOX owner, but I'm pretty sure they have a video out.

Re:Record Function? (3, Insightful)

RexHowland (71795) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935355)

Right, but the point is that the author of the article states that there is some sort of "record function" for the Xbox, which is obviously not true.

I suppose it's possible if it's a modded Xbox, but, otherwise, I have no idea how they even got that idea. For an article on Machinima, you'd think they'd at least try to be accurate as to how the recording was done.

Re:Record Function? (3, Informative)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935386)

"I suppose it's possible if it's a modded Xbox, but, otherwise, I have no idea how they even got that idea. For an article on Machinima, you'd think they'd at least try to be accurate as to how the recording was done."

*sigh* I tried to be subtle...

Why is this so difficult to understand? They just hooked up the XBOX to a VCR. Voila! That's all they needed to do! The 'record function' was, in all likelihood, a misunderstanding by the author of the story. I wouldn't normally be so harsh but seeing as how they have to get the video into a computer at some point to edit anyway, I don't see why everybody's got a question mark over their head about the idea of XBOX having a 'record option'. For all we know, it was an inaccurate reference to a game mode you have to put HALO in in order to just sit around and watch the other players.

If you know how to hook up an XBOX to a TV, then you have all the prerequisite knowledge you need to know in order to make your own machima movie using any tv-based game console ever created, including the Atari 2600.

Garage bands? I hope not (2, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934884)

Paul Marino who compares machinima to garage bands.

How do you mean Paul? I didn't realize Machinima animation artists wore trashy clothes, made a lot of teeth-splintering noise, got famous for 6 months to a year, and eventually died of overdose.

They're not that much better either. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935123)

Nah. Instead, they make pretentious and glorified power point presentations made uglier in game engines, while at the same time trying to pretend that their pathetic excuses for plot and artistry somehow can be compared to excellence in literature and top tier movies (when in actuality the material they produce can barely crawl above an undergrad animator's first attempt).

Please (1)

MikeBouma2 (773139) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934896)

Please, for those of us who have actually had sex with a living, breathing, *biped*, (of the OPPOSITE sex), please tell what exactly a "machinama" is?

Thanks!

Re:Please (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934925)

your mom and sister doesn't really count.

Re:Please (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935167)

Please, for those of us who have actually had sex with a living, breathing, *biped*, (of the OPPOSITE sex), please tell what exactly a "machinama" is?

Did you have to feed her bananas first?

But to answer your question, it's like an enema, but with a machine. Thanks, I'll be here all week.

What about interactive DVD (0, Troll)

daxomatic (772926) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934908)

So you can choose what scene will pop up next and follow the story in what ever form you like? (as far as the DVD is going.

Does anyone else have the balls (-1, Flamebait)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934910)

To stand up and say Red vs Blue SUCKS? I'll take it on the chin and burn the karma. I thought it was *terrible*. It is *NOT* a new artform.

Re:Does anyone else have the balls (1, Interesting)

kmcg83 (634003) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934921)

What part of that took balls?

Re:Does anyone else have the balls (1)

Shazzman (656506) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935118)

Who gives a shit about karma? You obviously have no balls to begin with.

Re:Does anyone else have the balls (3, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935425)

"Does anyone else have the balls to stand up and say Red vs Blue SUCKS?"

Yes. I also have the balls to stand up and say "Linux blows goats!" Unfortunately, few would honor either of our sets of balls for it since niether of us were smart enough to provide a thoughtful rationale for why we have that opinion. I guess balls alone really aren't enough for this world.

Socialization of the media (5, Insightful)

AMG (110468) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934918)

As a director, a movie it's a image story you want to tell, this is just another way, but you still need creativity to do it.

I'ts like making remixes with your old tape deck machine and only one turnable in the early 80's.

Related Discussion (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934934)

There is an in-depth discussion about this here [b0g.org]

Yeah (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934947)

Has anyone actually watched any of this stuff? It's pretty obvious all they do is sit around & script scenes in video games, and they're actually trying to pass this stuff off as a series?

If you've ever seen R&B, you realize it's chock full of a bunch of kids who got bored with Halo. It's about as deep as "The Anna Nichole Smith Show", minus the boobs. Please don't read in to this folks, if playing video games is art, I would be picasso.

Quake Movies... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8934967)

Popularized massively by the quake videos, featured on GameSpotTV on ZDTV.

Re:Quake Movies... (1)

crazyaxemaniac (219708) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935294)

The intro movie featured in the Team Fortress Quake mod was always my favorite.

I loved the old quake movies (2, Insightful)

Distortions (321282) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935312)

Blahbalicious, Ranger gone plaid..

Some other one I cant remember the name of that was 4 hours long.. :) I'd love to see an open-source machinima OpenGL engine..
Then they can just distrib the movie as a little binary with a data file.

Its always disappointed me that RvB hasn't done a better job with compression and size choices.

They really need to offer a smaller version for the modem people. Lots of my friends love RvB, but have a modem and can't wait forever to download it.

All the sound it voice, why didn't the quicktime qualicomm voice compression? 9:1 or even 20:1 compression.. And 44khz?
Please.. The voice recordings are horrible.. 11khz would do just fine.

But other than that is freaking hilarious.

Red Vs. Blue was good...but... (5, Insightful)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934972)

The article largely focuses on Red vs. Blue

Red Vs. Blue was great. For about the first 'season'. There were a lot of cute inside jokes about Halo, like the limitless amount of ammo, and some amusing stuff about capture the flag in general("You asked for it? Why didn't we try that?")

However, they then promptly ran out of material. It has now degenerated into a lot of homosexual potty humor(you know, the kind that homophobes make? An entire episode consists of them playing with the android's, um..."switch") and so on. Much of the episodes are just so far out to lunch plot-wise it's like watching a bunch of frat boys trying to do their own version of Whose Line Is It Anyway (which is no great surprise, reading the blog and looking at the author photos. They all seem perpetually stoned). Any clever new ideas have been so severely beaten to death they've long since ceased to be funny.

Basically- it was great because the early episodes were well written and had purpose. Now, however, the plot sucks. Machinima is a nice way to do animation, but it's not even remotely impressive on its own; not even slightly. Watching some poorly written script that consists mostly of a bunch of identical halo characters talking to each other(and these conversations go on for a half episode sometimes!) is downright boring, and I've gone from a huge fan to "oh, they released a new ep? Hmm, well, I guess I'll download it".

Instead of just leaving it to their 15 minutes of fame and wandering off to do something else with their lives, or moving on to a new game (there are plenty, after all- imagine what they could do with GTA:VC!), they're just churning out the same stuff, ep after ep.

Re:Red Vs. Blue was good...but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935211)

mod'd troll? what the heck... if he had not backed up his opinion with reasoning, sure, but HE DID.

It really sucks when fanboys get mod points.

Re:Red Vs. Blue was good...but... (2, Informative)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935262)

Actually, the later episodes are quite good. It would seem to me that you find them boring because they're not a "Gaming Comic" anymore.

With no "In jokes" left to get, you have a hard time relating to the episodes.

BTW, if anyone from Red vs Blue is reading this, I think your stuff is great. "A Message to the Scientific Community" is a personal favorite.

Re:Red Vs. Blue was good...but... (5, Interesting)

mstra (38238) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935503)

I guess it's like anything else. You can remove the barriers to entry, but you still have to know how to tell a story.

It's great that things like DV and Machima have made it easier for movies to be made without millions of dollars in budget...but as we should all already know - having a lot of gear and money to throw at a bad story doesn't make for a good movie. And you can have the crappiest production values in the world (Clerks), but if the story is compelling, that doesn't matter. If you've got a good story and know how to tell it, you can shoot your film on one of those old Fisher Price camcorders that recorded on audio cassettes.

That being said, I have always found the work of ill clan [illclan.com] to be pretty entertaining and well done. Perhaps it's because the creators are all skilled improvisors and know how to tell stories. Or maybe just because I think lumberjacks are inherently funny.

Super easy movie making? (4, Interesting)

TheLoneDanger (611268) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934987)

Has anyone else wondered what will happen when it becomes truly simple for EVERYONE to make movies, games, music etc. ? I mean, what will it be like when absolutely everyone can express what they want as they want it, even without technical skills? That's part of why I love the idea of machinima so much.

With Machinima, you do still need some technical skills, but you don't need cameras or locations, or a whole lot of photogenic actors. You can create the effects yourself (within the limits of the game engine). I don't think I have any sort of directorial talent, but I still dream of the day when I can just mess around with it, just for fun.

I imagine that if it ever does become super simple for people to create things like music and games and movies, we'll just get lots of crap. But maybe we'll get some gems. Maybe people will be less frustrated if they can express themselves artistically in some way. (Of course, some will be frustrated when they realize they have no talent and no audience.)

For an example of one man's vision, you can check out the anime Voices of a Distant Star, which was written, drawn, animated and I think scored by a single crazy guy.

A time honored tradition (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935026)

Instead of an unpublished novel, now everyone will have an unpublished movie in their drawer.

Re:Super easy movie making? (4, Funny)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935028)

what will it be like when absolutely everyone can express what they want as they want it, even without technical skills?
It'll be just like Livejournal!

Re:Super easy movie making? (2, Insightful)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935105)

> It'll be just like Livejournal!

Ie, the cream will rise to the top.

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

Deraj DeZine (726641) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935445)

Shouldn't this be modded insightful? Look at the vast amount of knowledge that can be found in blogs nowadays. Things like why Bush is ruining the world and how depressed/great/attractive people think they are.

Re:Super easy movie making? (4, Insightful)

S.Lemmon (147743) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935097)

Well, looking at music - people have been able to do that on a PC for a *long* time. Heck, you could consider early Amiga mod file tunes the sonic example of red-vs-blue. It allowed anyone to string together sample and fairly easily make real sounding music.

So... You ask what happens? What happens is you discover, even with the tools only a handful of people ever made *good* music. For every good one, there's thousands of crap mod files, crap flash animations, and now crap "machinima". Having cheap and easy tools can't make everyone a great animator anymore than the availability of cheap pencils and paper made everyone a great writer.

It still takes talent, but what it does do is allow people with that talent but without a ton of money to express their skill. What it may possibly hurt is the control large studios currently have over most entertainment.

Re:Super easy movie making? (2, Informative)

starm_ (573321) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935332)

If you want good independent, film, animation, videoclip, go to: zed.cbc.ca

Some good ones are: this [zed.cbc.ca] this [zed.cbc.ca] very good [zed.cbc.ca] this [zed.cbc.ca] cookie monster [zed.cbc.ca]

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935466)

Ug, that is sophomoric crap. Anyone who complains about generic "consumption" clearly is still living off Mom and Dad and feeling pissed off because they don't have the ability to consume all they way.

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

starm_ (573321) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935554)

Maybe I shouldn't have linked to a movie with politics in it. But the cookie monster impersonation just makes me laugh.

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

LewsKinslayer (87724) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935489)

I tried to watch the first link. It was utter crap. There's a reason why this type of ADD-induced filmmaking isn't mainstream. They couldn't stick to one thing for even a handful of minutes. Making your video seem sexy by quickly moving from location to location seems like a good idea at the lower echelons of filmmaking, but I would much rather see someone online create a professional-looking piece.

LK

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

starm_ (573321) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935529)

Well yeah its not all high budget huge teams working here, but I thinks its pretty good anyways.

What do you think about the second one?

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

starm_ (573321) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935543)

Also I think anyone can submit their movies so theres gonna be some crap, if you don`t like them you can always login and rate them down.

Re:Super easy movie making? (2, Interesting)

zpok (604055) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935434)

I agree, it brings down the barrier, but doesn't raise people's skills.

But but but...

Well, bringing down the barrier is in itself a good thing I think; and...
Different tools allow for different kinds of talents to surface and to get unexpected results, also a good thing; and...
There's the fun factor for those involved, not everybody needs to be a Spielberg.

The downside is of course the amount of crap - but wait... is TV today such a quality medium????

Re:Super easy movie making? (2, Interesting)

nathanh (1214) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935508)

So... You ask what happens? What happens is you discover, even with the tools only a handful of people ever made *good* music. For every good one, there's thousands of crap mod files, crap flash animations, and now crap "machinima". Having cheap and easy tools can't make everyone a great animator anymore than the availability of cheap pencils and paper made everyone a great writer.

Sure, there's lots of drek, but there's also an increase in the amount of good quality stuff.

You brought the example of cheap pencils and paper. Go back 1000 years and very few people knew how to write. These days a huge percentage of the world's population can read/write, and it's even higher if you only consider so-called western society. So sure, there's lots of crap (looks at Slashdot *g*) but there's also lots of great stuff. We have more books published every year than was published in the entire 2 millenia before the printing press was invented. Most of them are crap, but even if only 1% is great that is still 10s of 1000s of great books per year.

So OK, I agree that the tools don't make the artist and they will still need talent, but an increased number of machinima directors can only be a good thing. You never know who has talent until they give it a go, so the shotgun approach (everyone gets the tools) works really well.

This actually leads into one of my personal peeves with copyright. The copyright cheerleaders claim that the rapid increase in the amount and quality of work over the past 100 years has been a direct result of copyright laws. I disagree. I think it's because the tools of the trade (pens, paper, musical instruments, recording equipment) have gotten cheaper and are more available. While at the same time the training available to the common man has increased dramatically (the "three Rs" are taught in schools, music lessons are cheap, we have libraries). I think copyright does very little to promote the progress of arts and science except in very exceptional cases (eg, large collaborative works). I think copyright has far greater influence on the monetisation of cerebrial material than on its progress.

Re:Super easy movie making? (2, Insightful)

nacturation (646836) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935104)

Has anyone else wondered what will happen when it becomes truly simple for EVERYONE to make movies, games, music etc. ? I mean, what will it be like when absolutely everyone can express what they want as they want it, even without technical skills? That's part of why I love the idea of machinima so much.

Probably about the same for book-writing, I would think. Anyone can slap together some sentences and pump it out as a book (or as a post on Slashdot... oh, wait) but how many of those grab your attention? Of every hundred new books that get churned out, you'd be lucky to even hear about one of them. The same will happen for movies. People will produce tons of crap, but you'll only be aware of the ones good enough to gather any momentum (and get moderated up... oh, wait).

Re:Super easy movie making? (3, Interesting)

h00dLuM (630451) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935131)

I've wondered.

People will log on to p2p movie nets to contribute their best characters and best lines in realtime, some will specialise in effects like weather, mist, etc. Clans will form, you've got a guy who's wicked with facial gestures, another who bangs out the perfect tunes at just the right time.

Movies will become dynamic, there's no reason the same story should unfold the same way more than once. Themes and plots will evolve with every viewing.

I hope movies become interactive events, an experience that everyone leaves feeling like they had a role, because they did.

Re:Super easy movie making? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935182)

People will log on to p2p movie nets to contribute their best characters and best lines in realtime, some will specialise in effects like weather, mist, etc. Clans will form, you've got a guy who's wicked with facial gestures, another who bangs out the perfect tunes at just the right time.

And some company, somewhere, will charge you $12.95/month for it. Massively Multiplayer Online Movie Production Game.

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935145)

Has anyone else wondered what will happen when it becomes truly simple for EVERYONE to make movies, games, music etc?

The RIAA and MPAA will demand royalties from everyone from what they will call their 'creative expression patent'

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

stubear (130454) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935224)

You're assuming that the status quo for creative endeaavors will remain the same. The day it's becomes easy for anyone to create the entertainment you enjoy today, the entire entertainment industry will have moved well beyond what's going on now. Look at the state of games these days compared to just a couple years ago. Movies have progressed quite a bit from ten years ago as well, partially because they are becoming more accurate (WWII movies for instance), partially because they are improving the craft of film making (Lord of the Rings for instance).

Re:Super easy movie making? (5, Insightful)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935244)

Rewind to 1987.

Has anyone else wondered what will happen when it becomes truly simple for EVERYONE to do professional-quality desktop publishing? I mean, what will it be like when absolutely everyone can express on paper what they want as they want it, even without technical skills? Using whatever font they want, different point sizes, 300 DPI, right-justification, kerning, possibly even with pictures included with the text?

Re:Super easy movie making? (1)

patternjuggler (738978) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935403)

Has anyone else wondered what will happen when it becomes truly simple for EVERYONE to make movies, games, music etc. ?

Sure, frequently. What would happen is that movies, games, and music would become fundamental units of expression, on par with sentences made of words. Written words make up novels, which are analogous to movies or albums, but think of what would be analogous to email and handwritten notes and memos or whatever.

But that probably would be a long ways off, because the fundamental building blocks of visual imagery or music are exponentially more dense than writing. Think of the number of letters, the number of words, and combinatorial permutations of sentences and so on. Then think of an image, where each element is a pixel, or a tiny polygon, or a sound with all the frequency and phase components. There's infinitely more combinations of those that produce meaningfuly output (and a greater infinity more of unmeaningful output) for visuals and sound than exist for words. All that artistic freedom requires a huge amount of artistic input to fill out. Words get to evoke images and sounds in your head, while movies have to actually do the work during production.

It's easy to point to tools that allow us to produce what appears to be very high quality music and visuals without much work, the fact is that discerning viewers frequently can immediately identify the tools and favor work that required much more work and looks much more unique. Some one can produce a scene in Poser with stock models very quickly, but after seeing a hundred of those they'll all blend together, and viewers will want to go watch a movie that required hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of artistic hours because all that work is represented on the screen.

On the other hand, click on my sig and see how good or bad amateurs can get...

beach vollyball for ps2 .. :)~~ (1)

Brigadier (12956) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935600)



I cant' wait until that engine becomes available and you can make movies with it... :P

What machinima misses (4, Insightful)

Have Blue (616) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934991)

The most amazing thing about RVB is not anything about it being machinima. It's the exact opposite- the fact that it's filmed in a game is utterly irrelevant. They have good writing, good acting, and good direction, and that's why it's good. They could have done it in Halo or Quake or a 3D modeling program or a 2D animation program or with live actors. Machinima is not different from normal moviemaking at all, there's no difference in the skills and talents you need. It's just cheaper than production-quality CG, and it lowers the barrier to entry to the world of film, which is otherwise unchanged by its presence.

It may have good writing and good acting... (1)

lidocaineus (661282) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935183)

... if you think base potty humor is the epitomy of a laugh, and community theater is the height of complexity.

For what it is (a good chuckle), it's pretty good. For anything more... well, go read a book, watch some shorts... even watch an x86 demo! The writing may be entertaining for awhile, but it's the same thing over and over, and it never evolved.

Re:What machinima misses (2, Interesting)

javert (265031) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935573)

I agree totally about the good script & acting. I have all the RvB eps on my work terminal, and I enjoy playing them with video out plugin set to null and just listen with my headphones (so the boss suspects nothing hahahaha). The visuals are just optional, really.

It does get suspicious when I just have a dumb grin on my face when I am just staring at a C program.

Machinima dialogue (4, Funny)

sssmashy (612587) | more than 10 years ago | (#8934995)

RED ONE: You know what really pisses me off about these melee battles?
RED TWO: No, what's that?
RED ONE: Our life expectancy is about 60 seconds.
RED TWO: Yes, it kind of makes the dental plan seem irrelevant.
RED ONE: (gets fragged)
RED THREE: Hi, I'm here to replace Red Two. I'm Steve, what's your name?
RED TWO: Does it really matter?
RED THREE: Guess not. Incoming!
RED TWO: (Dies)
RED THREE: (Dies)

somebody needs to grab that thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935056)

re: "My Trip to Liberty City"

...before we kill that poor server.

Remake LOTR... (4, Interesting)

jasno (124830) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935058)

The cool thing about machinima is that it helps lower the barriers to entry for creating a movie. It looks a bit kitschy now, but with advanced HW acceleration coming down in price I think 10 years down the road we'll see some very interesting work.

Now what would be great is applying the open source model to work on larger productions. I'd love to see a faithful movie version of LOTR. Done by fans, so no one has to watch Legolas shield-surfing or pointless changes to fit it into a 9 hour trilogy.

Actually, I suppose you could start now as long as you picked open formats for storing the movie elements(dialog, movement, models, etc). Then you can change the renderer over time as things get better.

Imagine a machinima Gutenberg project - producing free versions of all the classic stories Disney ripped off.

Re:Remake LOTR... (2, Interesting)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935117)

You can do this now for the most part. It's a technically demanding task though, not to mention the time investment.

Blender for the modelling, and it now supports two renderers (internal, and yafray) to output with.

There's no reason the open source tools available now can't output production quality movies.

Re:Remake LOTR... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935139)

Why not go one step further and equip everyone 24/7 with low-cost motion capture devices, hooked up wirelessly and recorded? That way you can recreate *actual life* by playing it back in the latest engine. Shit, how many hours would people be watching me type this crap on Slashdot? [shudders]

Original idea by 748901a34b106c65b6e73ea04943069c

Re:Remake LOTR... (1)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935567)

Imagine a machinima Gutenberg project - producing free versions of all the classic stories Disney ripped off. Imagine a horde of angry Disney lawyers on your ass...

Pure Unadulterated Shit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935063)

I am now officially ashamed that I read this shit-heap of a site. Fuck all of you faggots and shove your gay "Crapinima" up your pale, pimply asses.

"with a Joystick"!? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935078)

Mouse and keyboard are vastly superior.

It isn't that new (5, Informative)

Neko-kun (750955) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935166)

Well, it just so happens that one of my friends goes to the California Institute of the Arts [calarts.edu] where there's a professor by the name of Eddo Stern who has been doing this since the early 90's...he then cofounded C-Level [c-level.cc] in 2001.

(oh, and here's the link [calarts.edu] to the page with the date of his latest lecture at CalArts, just search for his name...)

Old news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935174)

I read this story in the Toronto Star this morning and .. oh yeah. Never mind.

MTV VideoMods (1)

RicJohnson (649243) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935175)

Didn't MTV have some shows like this?
I think it was called VideoMods
Can anyone find it? It was great show - the took virtual characters and made them dance to the music

Next project: /. Days (1)

zpok (604055) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935400)

See me scrolling through those pages, watch the flames appear as I type them...

Red Vs. Blue appears to suck big time (1, Insightful)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935478)

God, that is awful. 4 people standing around moving their heads up and down. It's reminded me a lot of "Stimpy's Cartoon." If that's the state of the art, the art has a long way to go.

Quality of rendering (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935483)

As the quality of rendering increases, I can't wait to see Sandra Bullock bury her sixteen inch clitoris up the asshole of Jenny from the Block.

blahbalicious (1)

isaac338 (705434) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935495)

Dunno if anyone remembers this, but when I was younger I used to watch Blahbalicious [planetquake.com] , which is one of the most hilarious things I've seen in a long time. It's a feature movie made in Quake, and it's incredibly funny.

(no, I didn't make it)

originally xbox? I don't think so (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8935546)

Originally conceived for the Xbox game console as an alien-splattering, intergalactic shoot-em-up, Halo is one of the most popular games of all time.

I think it was running on the Mac long before it ran on the Xbox (and is finally running on Macs again after MS delayed it's release for half a decade.)

http://www.macworld.com/1999/07/bc/18halo/

A little plug for a machinima movie i liked (2, Informative)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935604)

'Anna' by Katherin Anna Kang (afaik, the wife of John Carmack) and Fountainhead Entertainment is great. It's a short story, and an opposite of most of the work out there : full of symbolism, and quite devoid of any testosteron driven 'kill kill kill'.

You can find more info, and a download link, right here : http://www.machinima.com/displayarticle2.php?artic le=411

Re:A little plug for a machinima movie i liked (1)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 10 years ago | (#8935612)

Oops, dunno how that space got in there : http://www.machinima.com/displayarticle2.php?artic le=411 being the right link ;)
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