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Alan Kay Receives ACM Turing Award

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the longbeards dept.

Announcements 120

TheAncientHacker writes "Alan Kay, the creator of the Smalltalk computer language (and a good deal of what we call Object Oriented Programming) is the winner of this year's Turing Award from the ACM. Kay is also the co-winner of this year's Charles Stark Draper Prize. For more, check out the website of Kay's latest project, Squeak - an open, highly-portable Smalltalk-80 implementation go to the Squeak homepage or the page of the SqueakLand community which uses Squeak in schools. For more on Kay's Turing Award, see this article on the SqueakLand site." Couple of other awards to announce: bth writes "The Association for Computing Machinery announced that it has recognized Dr. Stuart I. Feldman for creating a seminal piece of software engineering known as Make. Almost every software developer in the world has used Make, or one of its descendants, as a tool for maintaining computer software. Dr. Feldman will receive the 2003 ACM Software System Award." And finally, squidfrog writes "Nick Holonyak Jr., inventor of the LED, is being awarded the $500,000 Lemelson-MIT Prize at a ceremony in Washington. Edith Flanigen, 75, was also recognized, with the $100,000 Lemelson-MIT Lifetime Achievement Award for her work on a new generation of 'molecular sieves,' porous crystals that can separate molecules by size."

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Decker (-1, Offtopic)

micahmicahmicah (600841) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938568)

First reply??? "I'll tell you about my mother"

Re:Decker (-1, Offtopic)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938624)


Actually it wasn't Deckard who says that, it's Leon in an interview with Holden.

First IIIaFi%X%DTMM%Y%?!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938708)

If I install a Fleshlight in a robotic tortise, does that make me a herpatologist?!!!!

I hear that Qnix STILL doesn't have 802b11 drivers for Daryl Hannah!!!

Rejoice! MJ has been indicted! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938914)

The world's richest and most insane child molester is going to a pound-me-in-the-ass prison...

yay! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938589)

Turing the country side on Earth Day in my SUV, burning gas and oil!

Draft SUV drivers first! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938945)

Are you prepared to die for your precious oil, ecoterrorist?

I'd vote for re-instating the draft [drudgereportarchives.com] if the SUV drivers got drafted first.

Re:yay! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939032)

Same here. Fuck the commie, eco-nazis.

MVC too? (4, Interesting)

UrgleHoth (50415) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938591)

Doesn't the model-view-controller pattern originally come from smalltalk?

Re:MVC too? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938639)

I'm pretty sure it did. Interestingly, the modern comercial Smalltalks have moved beyond MVC. Squeak uses Morphic. From Smalltalk's point of view, MVC is so early 90s

Re:MVC too? (4, Informative)

joeyGibson (30462) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939595)

Cincom Smalltalk, which is the descendant of VisualWorks, still uses MVC. Dolphin, an excellent commercial ST for Windows, uses a modified version of MVC called MVP - Model View Presenter. Squeak is, to my knowledge, the only ST that has really deviated from MVC in a meaningful way. And it certainly isn't commercial.

Re:MVC too? (3, Insightful)

Fearless Freep (94727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941103)

>Cincom Smalltalk, which is the descendant of VisualWorks, still uses MVC. Dolphin

Sort of. It uses a secondary layer on top, "VisualWorks", the manages the interations between the models and the controllers and views. Then the UIBuilder builds to this structure. It makes it a lot easier to use. Technicaly it's down there but you don't have to worry about it much

MVP is a pretty good improvement over MVC

It's been awhile since I used VisualAge and they use something else, with a Bridge pattern thrown in the middle to manage crossplatform access to native widgets

Re:MVC too? (3, Informative)

Espen (96293) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940821)

The MVC pattern was invented by Trygve Reenskaug [ifi.uio.no] and later implemented for the SmallTalk-80 class library by others at Xerox Park.

Re:MVC too? (2, Informative)

Fearless Freep (94727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941140)

>Xerox Park.

That's PARC, for Palo Alto Research Center

The award... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938597)

The Turing Award is shaped like a butt plug. Alan Turing was a closet homosexual who committed suicide because of guilt over his chosen lifestyle.

Re:The award... (0, Offtopic)

BigBadBri (595126) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940826)

Turing was a homosexual, true. But not a closet homosexual at all.

His suicide had a lot more to do with the intolerance of the times (homosexuality was illegal in the UK back then, and he still worked for the Security Services) than with any guilt - he had allowed himself to be sentenced to state oestrogen poisoning in 1952, and never accepted that his homosexuality was wrong.

It's a pity he's not around now - homosexuality is almost compulsory in Manchester's 'Gay Village', just round the corner from where he finished his life's work.

I want more teen whining about free file sharing (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938606)

Down with this important stuff

What about Ada, You damn Hippies! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938835)

Ada Lovelace, the inventor of the first programming language.

I invented the term! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938631)

SteveBurbeck once told me this AlanKay story from his days at Apple.

A lot of the developers and managers at Apple were gathered around watching a presentation from someone about some "wonderful" new product that would save the world. All through the presentation, he had been stating that the product was "object-oriented" while he blathered on.

Finally, someone at the back of the room piped up:

"So, this product doesn't support inheritance, right?"
"that's right".
"And it doesn't support polymorphism, right?"
"that's right"
"And it doesn't support encapsulation, right?"
"that's correct".
"So, it doesn't seem to me like it's object-oriented".
To which the presenter huffily responded,
"Well, who's to say what's object-oriented and what's not?"

At this point the person replied,
"I am. I'm AlanKay and I invented the term."

Re:I invented the term! (4, Informative)

gowen (141411) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938763)

watching a presentation from someone
Niklaus Wirth [uni-trier.de]
about some "wonderful" new product
Project Oberon...

Re:I invented the term! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938865)

It wasn't Wirth, it was someone who worked for him. The story is ripped off verbatim from here [c2.com]

Re:I invented the term! (0)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938915)

Which also explains the CamelCase

Re:I invented the term! (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938929)

Thank you AC... I stand corrected. (And by an AC, too. Oh, the shame.) :)

Re:I invented the term! (1)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939583)

Jeeze man. Oberon supports inheritance and polymorphism. At least, I think it does, but it's been a while since I used it.

Re:I invented the term! (2, Informative)

BdosError (261714) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940684)

According to the linked Wiki page, the talk was with regard to Oberon 1, which did not support inheritance or polymorphism. Oberon 2, they claim, does support those features.

Re:I invented the term! (4, Funny)

davidstrauss (544062) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938770)

SteveBurbeck once told me this AlanKay story from his days at Apple.

...and my CS professor StephenKeckler was just awarded the GraceHopper award.

Are you an overworked sysadmin? Do you manually assign so many logins that you normalize all full names?

Re:I invented the term! (1)

geniusj (140174) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938802)

Maybe he is used to using WiKis :).. That's what I thought when I saw it.

Re:I invented the term! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938847)

Me too.

Though it doesn't help with the sad state I'm in now: wiping up the chunks I RETCHED upon seeing that mutilation of my language.

Re:I invented the term! (1)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939666)

Same here, I assumed he copied off of c2.com or something.

Re:I invented the (language)! (3, Funny)

darkonc (47285) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941173)

Grace Hopper was at the University of Alberta, in the early 80'. At a reception for her, she was talking to a friend of mine (who shall remain unnamed), and commented that there were a number of people at the University who had done a lot of work on the early days of Cobol, and wondered why there was so little (almost no) mention of it in the department.

"Maybe they're ashamed of it!" quipped my friend, in reply.

Another (better informed) friend quickly pulled him aside and explained that Grace had been one of the prime movers in the design of Cobol.

Re:I invented the (language)! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941494)

One of the reasons that Adm. Hopper was so cool was that she would have wholeheartedly agreed with your friend.

It was a great regret of hers that COBOL remained the state of the art for as long as it did. She never intended for it to become an entrenched obstacle to CS progress for 30 years.

Magical Microsoft Moments. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938828)

Reminds me of the "Magical Microsoft Moments" story:

I've been attending the USENIX NT and LISA NT (Large Installation Systems Administration for NT) conference in downtown Seattle this week.

One of those magical Microsoft moments(tm) happened yesterday and I thought that I'd share. Non-geeks may not find this funny at all, but those in geekdom (particularly UNIX geekdom) will appreciate it.

Greg Sullivan, a Microsoft product manager (henceforth MPM), was holding forth on a forthcoming product that will provide Unix style scripting and shell services on NT for compatibility and to leverage UNIX expertise that moves to the NT platform. The product suite includes the MKS (Mortise Kern Systems) windowing Korn shell, a windowing PERL, and lots of goodies like awk, sed and grep. It actually fills a nice niche for which other products (like the MKS suite) have either been too highly priced or not well enough integrated.

An older man, probably mid-50s, stands up in the back of the room and asserts that Microsoft could have done better with their choice of Korn shell. He asks if they had considered others that are more compatible with existing UNIX versions of KSH.

The MPM said that the MKS shell was pretty compatible and should be able to run all UNIX scripts.

The questioner again asserted that the MKS shell was not very compatible and didn't do a lot of things right that are defined in the KSH language spec.

The MPM asserted again that the shell was pretty compatible and shouldwork quite well.

This assertion and counter assertion went back and forth for a bit, when another fellow member of the audience announced to the MPM that the questioner was, in fact David Korn of AT&T (now Lucent) Bell Labs--the author of the Korn shell.

Uproarious laughter burst forth from the audience, and it was one of the only times that I have seen a (by then pink cheeked) MPM lost for words or momentarily lacking the usual unflappable confidence.

He also said.. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938848)

"I invented the term ObjectOriented, and C++ isn't what I had in mind"

No he did not (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939198)

Kristen Nygaard invented object-oriented programming together with Ole-Johan Dahl at the Norwegian Computing Center.

Re:No he did not (1)

The Evil Couch (621105) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939811)

true, however, the quote was, "I am. I'm AlanKay and I invented the term." which is still accurate.

Re:No he did not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8940755)

Probably it won't be long until some other american claims he invented the term windows. Oh, wait ...

Re:I invented the term! (1)

joeyGibson (30462) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939646)

Unless I'm missing something, this sounds apocryphal to me. To wit:

ST does support single inheritance.
ST does support polymorphism.
ST mandates encapsulation.

Sounds pretty OO to me.

Re:I invented the term! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939907)

The story wasn't about ST, it was about Oberon.

Re:I invented the term! (1)

joeyGibson (30462) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940770)

Oh. Sorry. I didn't realize Dr. Kay was involved with Oberon. I thought that was just Niklaus Wirth.

Re:I invented the term! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941022)

No, you're still missing the point. Kay was criticizing a speaker who was claiming that Oberon was object-oriented, and justified his criticism by pointing out that he (Kay) was the one who defined the term "object oriented".

Re:I invented the term! (1)

joeyGibson (30462) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941086)

Damn... I sure did. I was reading the "he" in the story as being Dr. Kay... OK. I get it now. Thanks for pointing our my error... :-)

Re:I invented the term! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941369)

WTF is up with running peoples' first and last names together ("AlanKay", "AdeleGoldberg")?

Alan Kay (-1, Offtopic)

Forge (2456) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938642)

Am I the only one who thinks his name sounds like a popular tool?

"Allen Key"

Re:Alan Kay (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938653)

HAHAHAHAAH~rofl!!!`````~~~~!!1111oneone@@@twotwo

Re:Alan Kay (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938674)

And I suppose you "forge" tools all the time right?

Re:Alan Kay (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938778)

Actually I first read it as "Allen Keyes". The conservitive African American who ran for the presidency in 2000.

Re:Alan Kay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939062)

I need tungsten to live! TUNGSTEN!!!!11111~~

Re:Alan Kay (1)

loveaxelrod (544393) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939273)

Which tool do you mean?

Re:Alan Kay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939467)

I think Apple should dedicate a building to him.

And name it the "Al Kay Hall". Of course, it should have a bar in it.

The Turing Test (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938647)

"... is sometimes used more generally to refer to some kinds of behavioural tests for the presence of mind, or thought, or intelligence in putatively minded entities"

Congratulations to Alan Kay for displaying such behaviour rarely seen in American Congress!

Nick Holonyak Jr., inventor of the LED… (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938693)

In tribute to the pinnacle of achievement realized as a result of his invention, Mr. Holonyak will also be receiving a commemorative license plate frame with blinking LED marquee lights.

New generation? (3, Interesting)

Otter (3800) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938709)

I was impressed that a 75 year old is doing cutting-edge work but this "new generation" of sieves seems to have actually been new in the 1950's. Good for her, in any case.

Alan Kay Receives Ninnle Award (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938724)

...in recognition of the significant advances that he helped make for humanity. This is a new award created by Ninnle.org and will be an annual event.

Re:Alan Kay Receives Ninnle Award (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941370)

This CAN'T be offtopic! Thisis Ninnle, after all! Is it offtopic just because of this? Come on! Next thing, anything with Microsoft in it will be considered offtopic!

Surprising (3, Informative)

andy666 (666062) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938728)

It is surprising that the chose not to honor Martin Davis of NYU, since so many OOP ideas are implicit in his work.

Wasn't MOOcode based on Smalltalk? (3, Interesting)

phreakmonkey (548714) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938760)

I seem to remember that PARC's LambdaMoo "MOOCode" was based partially on Smalltalk. (Oddly enough, I learned about OO programming from MOOcode.) It actually made a good model for learning OO concepts.

-P.M.

Re:Wasn't MOOcode based on Smalltalk? (3, Interesting)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939621)

From what I've read, LambdaMoo's language isn't derived directly from Smalltalk, though it is derived in a way similar to how Java is, though not in the way that Self or Objective-C are.

LambdaMoo and similar systems are very cool, indeed. Something we bring up on the Squeak Smalltalk mailing list sometimes. In addition to the kind of stuff vanilla Smalltalk supports, in a MOO you've also (usually) got a multi-user system spread over multiple servers with full objectspersistance for free. badass.

Re:Wasn't MOOcode based on Smalltalk? (4, Interesting)

david.given (6740) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939729)

I wrote a multiplayer web game in MOO-code; Stellation [sf.net] . (Now defunct. Server not running, web page very out of date, but the source is still available from CVS on Sourceforge.)

It's a nice language. A bit baroque in places, but it has lots of nice features if you're programming this kind of thing; persistance (never need to worry about storing your data on disk!); incremental updates (connect to the server and fiddle with the code while it's up and running and serving requests!); a nice threading model (cooperative multitasking with teeth --- your thread has complete control until it suspends, but if you wait too long the thread's killed)... The VM is sophisticated enough that the game server runs its own web server.

The language itself is sort-of garbage collected (parts are, parts aren't), object oriented with pure dynamic dispatch, has some very nice security measures which I didn't use in Stellation because I wasn't letting users program it, and generally behaves like a slightly gothic Smalltalk with C syntax. Very easy to get used to.

If you're interested, check it out. I was really rather pleased with that game, and at its peak I got a reasonable number of players. It needs redesigning from the ground up, but I've yet to find a VM that's quite as nice as LambdaMOO for doing it in.

(Anyone want to adopt it?)

I set up a reef tank... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938807)

anyone wanna give me some money?

There's no justice I tell you! (2, Informative)

kahei (466208) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938813)


Cobbling together the mass of awkward syntax, unextendability, and tabs that is make ranks alongside actual advancement of human knowledge? I'd rather they'd awarded the prize on the basis of something other than sheer number of victims :)

Thank goodness for Ant -- teaching the world that we don't need to use make any more was the best thing Java ever did for us.

Hrm, well, that was my curmudgeonly rant for the day.

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (5, Interesting)

alanxyzzy (666696) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939270)

Cobbling together the mass of awkward syntax, unextendability, and tabs that is make ranks alongside actual advancement of human knowledge?
There is an anecdote (I can't vouch for its accuracy) that
Stuart Feldman, the Bell Labs guy who invented "make", woke up one morning a few weeks after he'd released it, and realized that the syntax basically sucked - all those tabs and colons and weird continuation rules. He started working on something better and was shot down because someone said "Stuart, there are *dozens* of people using this, it's too late to change it."

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (5, Informative)

alanxyzzy (666696) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939412)

A bit more googling turns up this quote from Stuart Feldman [faqs.org]
Why the tab in column 1? Yacc was new, Lex was brand new. I hadn't tried either, so I figured this would be a good excuse to learn. After getting myself snarled up with my first stab at Lex, I just did something simple with the pattern newline-tab. It worked, it stayed. And then a few weeks later I had a user population of about a dozen, most of them friends, and I didn't want to screw up my embedded base. The rest, sadly, is history.

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939489)


*weeps*

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939544)

the mass of awkward syntax . . . that is make ranks alongside actual advancement of human knowledge? I'd rather they'd awarded the prize on the basis of something other than sheer number of victims :)
Thank goodness for Ant.


<reply tone="sarcastic" style="parody" effectiveness="probably low">
<conjunction value="Because"></conjunction>
<gerund value="programming"></gerund>
<preposition value="in"></preposition>
<acronym value="XML"></acronym>
<verb value="is"></verb>
<adverb value="much"></adverb>
<adverb value="less"></adverb>
<adjective value="awkward"></adjective>
</reply>

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940021)


Wait! You didn't specify the various namespaces that your attributes come from, or provide a DTD or XSD so that I can read your document with a validating reader! You're just NOT LONG-WINDED ENOUGH to use XML!

Anyway, XML is merely the data format. I'm sure you could bolt a nicer data format onto Ant if you wanted, but the limitations of make are best addressed by using something modern.

Re:There's no justice I tell you! (2, Interesting)

baxissimo (135512) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941769)

Is Ant better than SCONS?
http://ant.apache.org/ [apache.org]
http://www.scons.org/ [scons.org]

Seriously, I'm just curious. I've heard a lot more about SCONS than Ant. For instance Blender [blender.org] is switching over to a SCONS build system.

ObQuote (4, Insightful)

grahamlee (522375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938854)

I invented the term Object-Oriented Programming, and I can tell you I didn't have C++ in mind Alan Kay, OOPSLA 1997.

Re:ObQuote (4, Funny)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938890)

Why not? I always thought C++ was a perfect language for OOPS!

Re:ObQuote (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8938900)

C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung.

Re:ObQuote (4, Funny)

grahamlee (522375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939206)

C++ gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot.

Re:ObQuote (4, Funny)

yarbo (626329) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939284)

"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California."
- attributed to Edsger Dijkstra [wikipedia.org]

Re:ObQuote (2, Interesting)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941701)

"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California."

Only half right. It originated in Norway by the designers of Simula-67. However, the term perhaps may have been coined in California.

Re:ObQuote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941810)

"I am Object-Oriented Programming, and I can tell you I didn't have Alan Kay in mind" -- C++, Slashdot 2004

Make! (3, Funny)

pipacs (179230) | more than 10 years ago | (#8938937)

Make! Just about time. We would be ants without it.

Dr. Stuart I. Feldman deserves the award but... (3, Funny)

swapsn (701280) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939061)

please give him only half the prize money for having tabs as integral part of make syntax :-))


yes, it was a joke

Squeak? I guess I could use a new hobby. (5, Informative)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939088)

SmallTalk was always an intriguing language to me, and mostly because it used some kind of integrated graphic shell, it used glyphs not found in US-ASCII, and there weren't any decent free SmallTalk environments available for the longest time.

Now with Squeak [squeak.org] and this quick tutorial [mucow.com] , it might be about time to explore SmallTalk.

Besides, I've always wanted a real OO language where I could send the message "to:do:" to the object "1".

Be "Different". (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939233)

It is intriging, but it's main disadvantage is that it is different. And as the history of computing has shown, different isn't "good enough". Also it can be hard to wrap one's brain around some of the ideas. Try reading a beginners book on OOPs, and see the furrowed brows grow.

Re:Squeak? I guess I could use a new hobby. (1)

archivis (100368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939281)

+1 Sig Funny

Squeak - old news (2, Interesting)

Percent Man (756972) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939097)

"Back in the day," an OOD class I took at Georgia Tech was taught in Squeak - which was widely held to be waning in favor even then. I don't see how it's groundbreaking now.

Not to say it's good for nothing - Squeak is particularly good at web crawling apps, IIRC.

As an added bit of trivia, I believe Squeak was so named because one of its biggest proponents is the Mouse himself [disney.com] .

Squeak - not so old after all (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939314)

You should really take the time to get up to speed on the new stuff if you haven't paid attention since school.

Check out this web-app technology [beta4.com] built (first) in squeak, now also available in the descendant to ParcPlace smalltalk (now Cincom Smalltalk [cincomsmalltalk.com] )

Also of interest is croquet [slashdot.org] , a virtual 3d environment. I saw a live demo [cincomsmalltalk.com] of this where the presenter (David Smith, one of the engineers) showed his avatar moving between worlds existing one each on two separate machines. It was not fast, but not as slow as you might expect.

Also, smalltalk solutions [smalltalksolutions.com] is next week (in Seattle) so come by if you're interested and available.

P.S. what is now known as Squeak was started at Apple. The Squeak group left Apple during Amelio's reign when the company was gutting it's research depts.

Re:Squeak - old news (2, Interesting)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939713)

Squeak is indeed groundbreaking. That doesn't mean it's the best tool for every job, though. While it is in fact good for a lot of things, web crawling apps wouldn't be one of those that come to mind. I'd use perl most likely, and I'm an huge Squeak user and proponent.

I can't say whether or not Squeak was named for Disney, although Squeak was developed under Disney for some years, with the team on Disney's payroll. However, Squeak was born at Apple in 95-96, before any Disney involvement.

Re:Squeak - old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8940307)

Georgia Tech still teaches classes using Squeak

Re:Squeak - old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941583)

I think they have switched to Python more recently, though. At least that's what I heard from friends there.

Re:Squeak - old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8941619)

Oops that wasn't very clear was it? Same AC here. I was talking about Disney in parent post (#8941583). Disney is who I heard switched from Squeak to Python. I don't know nufin bout no GA Tech or Apple.

I HATE Dr. Stuart I. Feldman !!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939179)

Make is the most craptastically evil tool ever! Any tool where a TAB character (a character that looks no different than whitespace) has a special meaning is just a poorly designed piece of shit.

Re:I HATE Dr. Stuart I. Feldman !!! (2, Funny)

grahamlee (522375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939403)

You'll love whitespace [dur.ac.uk] then, I reckon. Unfortunately it isn't Object Oriented so I'm not on topic :-(

Squeak is useful in education (3, Interesting)

mwyner (65962) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939186)

We have a 6th grade math teacher in our school I work with who's been using Squeak to talk about various math concepts. The kids are really into it and constantly engaged. They get into making their own objects and it's a great jumping off point for me to teach them some rudimentary programming skills too.

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939320)

I think Smalltalk's an...interesting choice for teaching math considering it's strict left to right evaluation and no operator precedence

My All Time Favorite Quote (3, Insightful)

Dorsai42 (738671) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939331)

"Perspective is worth 50 points of IQ. -Alan Kay

Misquoted. (3, Informative)

voodoo1man (594237) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941388)

The actual quote is:

"It is the difference of point of view that leads to problems: point of view is worth 80 IQ points."

It is from an essay of Alan Kay's, printed in Winston and Prendergast's (eds.) AI Business, 1984.

squeak dangerous (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8939437)

I installed a squeak on my windows2000 laptop, and at the end of the day had to wipe the drive and reinstall the OS.... dont say you were not warned

Is Squeak your problem? (2, Interesting)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940154)

Having installed Squeak on Windows, Linux, and Mac, I can say that I've never had a problem with Squeak.

There are two factors here, that I can see: Squeak, and Windows 2000. Which is the more reliable of the two? I think I know...

Alan Kay is awesome (4, Interesting)

streak (23336) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939672)

So Alan Kay used to work in a segment of our offices devoted to Squeak development before he officially joined up with HP. I've met him a few times and I've worked very closely with one of his collegues who is actually leaving my company to join Alan again at HP.
He is an amazing guy and Squeak is a pretty cool language/environment to program in.
Its nice to see his work with Squeak finally being recognized. Word has it that he and some other people (including the guy who is leaving our company) are going to be working on some educational software in Squeak that will come with HP PCs.

In case you didn't know (3, Informative)

jabbadabbadoo (599681) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939706)

As a side note, Alan Kay took a lot of ideas from the original object oriented language, Simula [umich.edu] , created by Norwegian researcher in the late 60's.

Simula is still used and there is a research facility [simula.no] named after it.

Re:In case you didn't know (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941759)

Alan Kay took a lot of ideas from the original object oriented language, Simula

The Simula people already won the award years earlier IIRC.

A Great Squeak Demo (1)

dreadway (459923) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939866)

Here's a good sample of what Smalltalk's about, from the Squeak site. [gatech.edu] (I hope that link is the right format.)

Re:A Great Squeak Demo (2, Informative)

dreadway (459923) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939989)

non-linky address:
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5

*sigh*

Alan Kay Etech 2003 presentation (5, Informative)

redlum (27851) | more than 10 years ago | (#8939938)

Here's a presentation at Etech 2003 [lisarein.com] Alan Kay gave on some early computer projects that were way ahead of their time and he also demoed his latest project: Croquet -- which is a 3D collaborative environment pretty close to Metaverse.

Someone to tell (1)

Stephen Samuel (106962) | more than 10 years ago | (#8940611)

My friend [smalltalk.org] will be real happy to hear about this. He's a serious smalltalk geek.

As a slashdot reader (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8940622)

My knowledge of computer science is very small, and entirely limited to linux "advocacy" and why Micro$oft suckszzz.

Tell me, why should I give a fuck?

He should be higly pleased (4, Funny)

Andy_R (114137) | more than 10 years ago | (#8941768)

Since we can assume a Turing Award is an award capable of modelling all other awards, which makes it functionally equivalent to a Nobel Prize, Oscar, Grammy and Bronze Swimming Certificate.
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