Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

841 comments

gain (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970007)

gaingaingain# ply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal. We only acknowledge small faults in order to make it appear that we are free from great ones. -- La Rouchefoucauld All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2004 OSDN. [ home | awards | contribute story | older articles | OSDgaingaingaingain

Frist Psot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970009)

We shold do something to block these damn first posts!

Something wrong (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970010)

I think somethings gone horribly wrong.

something has gone wrong (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970011)

i am bin laden i wish for all americans to die becuase they create most of the spams, leave our niggah selves alone to the sand!

about time (1, Flamebait)

tannhaus (152710) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970013)

Well, I'd say less than 5% of the email I receive is legitimate email...so I really don't care if they decide to start nuking to try and stop spam...do SOMETHING

Re:about time (5, Insightful)

Narkov (576249) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970032)

Bad luck to those ligitimate ISP's out there that get brought down by a few big National ISP's.

Blanket measures like this are wrong. Target the individual ISP's that are known bad.

Re:about time (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970118)

it's "legitimate" mod -5 for stupidity

Re:about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970156)

That's questionable, it's the SPEWS mentality and believe it or not it pisses a lot of people off.

You don't do enough to prevent SPAM, prepare to be RTBLed!

Re:about time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970135)

well, recent history has shown that the spanish will easily cave in to acts of terrorism (such as black holes, that dispense group punishment). i expect that spain will shortly ban the use of email, and perhaps computers altogether, for fear of being further blackholed.

people of spain, stand up for yourselves! send your spam through wanadoo!

Re:about time (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970056)

Sounds like the post-9/11 mentality. You know, that "I don't care what you have to do, do SOMETHING!" mentality.

Look where that got us, eh?

Re:about time (-1, Flamebait)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970102)

Yeah, like that American Revolution shit. "JUST DO SOMETHING!" and all the fuckers did was throw tea into the water. Pfffft... what a load of garbage.

Re:about time (1)

Lshmael (603746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970175)

The Boston Tea Party happened before the American Revolution. It was not "a load of garbage," as you claim. Educate yourself [wikipedia.org] .

Re:about time (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970182)

Well, the problem was that you were being taxed to fund a large army (when you don't need an army, just a militia) that took it's orders from a man called George who only got his position because his father had it before him.

Re:about time (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970150)

I believe Poor Richard's Almanac (written by Benjamin Franklin) which went something like this:
When solving a problem it is common to take a method and try it. When it fails, try another. But above all, do something."

Re:about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970067)

...do SOMETHING
yeah, stop using e-mail. you're stupid if you don't. there are many alternatives.

Land of the free. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970014)

Thank God(TM) that here in the Land Of The Free And The Brave(R) our access to e-mail, internet, and
all things good has beEN%Hh3ATH+0+[NO CARRIER]<p>

Inevitable, and other countries are next. (5, Informative)

joeszilagyi (635484) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970015)

The message is clear: police your people's usage and abuse of the Internet, or prepare to enjoy your new Intranet.

A few other countries that can use this are found here [blackholes.us] .

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (2, Funny)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970048)

I guess paying off SCO warrants a blackhole entry as well:
EV1 [blackholes.us]

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (4, Informative)

kinzillah (662884) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970097)

"Blackholes.us does not list spammers, spam supporters or vulnerable hosts at the present time. These lists are meant to contain all known networks assigned or allocated to the respective provider or organizations within the respective country. Lists are created for research purposes, primarily, and are made public for any use others see fit."

It seems the purpose of the site is to list the IP ranges associated with various bodies in the event you should wish to block their traffic.

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970131)

Actually - EV1 has a history of hosting spammers. Well before their SCO involvement.

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (2, Interesting)

sweetooth (21075) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970133)

A list of EV1's IP blocks was available long before the whole SCO debacle. The reason being there was a time when it didn't appear EV1 (aka RackShack) didn't appear to be policing violaters of their AUP. Hence if you want to block EV1 you can add that particular blackhole. Of course it's something you have to add manually.

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970050)

Now that is a cool idea!
I don't recieve email from friends in other countries. NEVER. So if a mail service could filter out anything that wasn't comming from the good ol USA, that would we sweet!

Granted I know some places have servers elsewhere, but then the should put some here in the US then shouldn't they?

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (5, Interesting)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970080)

Indeed, my living in Thailand blocks me from many things on the internet:
  • Paypal is unusable;
  • Many other online ordering service block my whole area;
  • I have been unable to find a colo provider with php/mysql that will either accept my payment or allow FTP from SE Asia for their free account;
  • Loxinfo (the largest ISP here, I believe) users cannot post to Slashdot stories.
Living in a country that is a home for spam relays, FTP assaults, whatever... makes life much more difficult online, though I do none of this.

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970192)

Use a proxy! :D

Re:Inevitable, and other countries are next. (4, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970089)

Uh... the site says:

Blackholes.us does not list spammers, spam supporters or vulnerable hosts at the present time. These lists are meant to contain all known networks assigned or allocated to the respective provider or organizations within the respective country. Lists are created for research purposes, primarily, and are made public for any use others see fit.

Really, all they're giving you is a list of IPs assosicated with the named nation or company. If you were to use all of those blacklists at once, you will have blocked out nearly every major hosting firm in the USA, and a good chunk of the world. Not just the spammers, but everything within those ranges. This is definitely a "We can't find the criminals, so we're nuking the town!" defense plan.

These lists are valuable if you want to lock out an entire provider... but realize that you're going to throw out a lot of legitimate servers in your quest to block a few Spammers. Unless you're sure you're never going to have customers in Mexico, don't throw out all of Mexico's IP space in one swipe.

Also, beware that these lists don't sort datacenters from customers. EV1's IP space for example is mostly servers, but they do operate a regional ISP as well. Block that whole range, and some dial-up customers might try to reach you and fail.

Think before you block...

perhaps? (1, Insightful)

tuxette (731067) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970016)

One has to ask though, is blocking an entire country like this the future of spamfighting, or has something gone horribly wrong?

It is an extreme reaction; there's no denying that. But perhaps it's the only way for governments to take spam seriously and take action accordingly.

Re:perhaps? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970047)

Congrats on your cookie-cutter response you cock sucking faggot. I bet you will get modded to informative or insightful even though your post was neither. It was a pile of shit.

Re:perhaps? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970100)

Nonsense, the government has no say in what policies a private Spanish company implements.

This is seen as a technical issue for the company to resolve.

Re:perhaps? (3, Informative)

Ded Mike (89353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970194)

TDE is blacklisted.

They are as government independent as the BBC or DeutscheTelekom or the BundesPoste. If they were independent and a commercial enterprise, perhaps they would take the actions of those trying to preserve the Internet for the rest of us from the spammers, script-kiddiez and terrorists as seriously as they should.

Re:perhaps? (1)

SEWilco (27983) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970154)

One has to ask though, is blocking an entire country like this the future of spamfighting, or has something gone horribly wrong?

Yes.

Re:perhaps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970184)

A whole country extreme?

Oh behave!

Most sysadmins worth their salt block *.cn, *.jp, and *.kr on their first day of a job - before their first coffee break.

Now if those governments and any renegade busineses|schools toe the line and clean up any open relays, open proxies, and kick off the US spammers trying to hide out, perhaps more BLs in the US will take the muzzles off of those morons.

It must be.. (0, Offtopic)

Vacant Mind (449927) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970018)

All the terrorist activities

Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (2, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970020)

It seems to me like this whole concept of Spam blacklisting is a matter of the blind leading the blind.

If you trust your mailservers to automatically block whoever's on a blacklist, you've basically handed control of your mailserver's main function over to somebody else... but those somebody else's are just self-appointed dimwits who eventually get drunk with power and do something crazy like blocking a whole country worth of IP space.

Sorry. This ain't the solution to Spam. It's a band-aid on a system that's much too wounded, but we use it anyway...

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (5, Insightful)

trelanexiph (605826) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970054)

not so much a bandaid as a trust metric. It's the equivalent of saying "I am incapable of doing this research, however I will trust persons x y and z to do it, until I say otherwise, I still retain control of my server because I can revoke that trust at any time". However your comment is quite valid, some of them are "self appointed dimwits"

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (2, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970161)

I don't think any blacklist group is worthy of such trust.

Do we really know that isn't being run by some group of spammers bent on making sure only their spam gets through? It might operate reliably for a while, then start to get compromize itself slowly...

Those who are operating real blocklists need to do something to earn trust besides putting a blocklist forward, that's the suspicious package we're trying to investigate the contents of.

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (3, Funny)

maxpublic (450413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970173)

It might operate reliably for a while, then start to get compromize itself slowly...

Much like the U.S. government.

Max

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (2, Interesting)

jhunsake (81920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970058)

Then is it your fault or the blacklist's? If you hand your keys to a person you know is drunk, and they crash your car, is it your fault that your car it totalled or is it their's?

I say it's yours.

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (1)

inflex (123318) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970062)

I whole-heartedly agree. Acelleration of things like RMX would help things. I've also recently started looking into scanning the emails for particular destination IP's to block those (after all, the scammers/spammers tend to congregate somewhere /consistant/ no matter what the apparent source of the email).

Ag, blacklists have always irritated me - not so much for the fact that they block so many people but because it's so easy and so out of your direct control for something to go wrong (as you said).

PLD.

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (1)

maxpublic (450413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970190)

I use a white-list at home. If you aren't on the list I don't know you and 99.9% of the time I'm pretty sure I don't want to talk to you, either. The other 0.1% of the time isn't worth the spam. And in any event there are a number of ways to exchange email addresses to compensate for that other 0.1%, if I'm actually interested in doing so.

Max

Please clarify. (3, Insightful)

joeszilagyi (635484) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970071)

...and if this forces TDE to address their issues, this would be a bad thing why?

This is the same reason why organizations such as Spews.org, when leveraging their clout correctly, can get things fixed: they get the regular end users after the ISP to fix their problems. Spain now can't email a LOT of places. Spain. Not just TDE customers, but ALL people there. Now, all of TDE will be complaining to TDE, along with TDE's partners. Their competitors. Heck, maybe the government. They'll clean up their act, or else. If they don't, that's fine too, if they don't want to email anyone.

Remember that no one on the Internet is obligated to accept traffic from anyone. Be it email or otherwise. If I choose to block you from mailing me via my website, or from even viewing my site--or if I decide this of your entire country--that is my decision. My IP address(es), my mailbox, my rules. ISPs flaunt my wishes by spamming me, and they get dropped.

So, again, why is this bad if it forces them under huge pressure to fix their issues?

Re:Please clarify. (4, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970138)

Oh, TDE addressing the Spam issues would be great... but the collateral damage of blocking e-mail you want to get is not something you should be taking chances with.

If you have a large number of customers in Spain, and you're configured to use this blacklist... you're screwed. It'll take several hours before you realize why you stopped getting customer e-mails.

Using these blocklists in an automated mode is a very dangerous thing. You never know what collateral group of non-spammers will be blocked next.

Re:Please clarify. (1)

joeszilagyi (635484) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970163)

True, on that point. Hopefully, admins who enable such lists on their systems would know enough to be aware of things such as this, or would keep tabs on what sorts of blocklists they use. Personally I only really like Spamcop and the open relay lists, as the open relay ones are more selective, and Spamcop is so heavily used by the community that things tend to not slip under the radar.

All that said, no one should have any sympathy for the people/groups/organizations that enable or facilitate this muck.

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (5, Interesting)

jcam2 (248062) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970104)

Personally, I've found that many blacklists are getting rather over-zealous lately. For example, one of my ISP's mail servers is on the SpamCop and Dynablock lists, causing pretty much everything I (and many hundreds of thousands of other people) send out to be classified as spam!

Fortunately, I can work around this by relaying mail through a non-blacklisted server, but most subscribers won't have the ability or access to do that. And if the ISP ever turns off port 25, I may have no choice but to relay through their servers :-(

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (1)

icebike (68054) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970176)


And if the ISP ever turns off port 25, I may have no choice but to relay through their servers :-(


Why?
Surely if someone other than your ISP will let you relay mail thru them they must trust you
enough to allow you to use ssh, no?

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (3, Insightful)

BigDish (636009) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970186)

That is the point of Blacklists - you should be complaining to your ISP that they are blacklisted. If they are blacklisted, it means they are hosting spammers and this (customers like you putting pressure on them) is the only way to get them to clean up their act.

Re:Is there such a thing as a reputable blacklist? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970191)

How many BLs are you looking to use? There are several which are quite handy and valid.

My idea of ending spam coming true! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970022)

It's simple, ban all other country's email unless they have proper spam laws enacted.

I guess the US is screwed unless we remove the legalized-spam act.

It's not something that'll ever go away (3, Insightful)

inflex (123318) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970025)

This is crazy, blocking an entire country because of spam - while I can appreciate the 'irritation' of receiving spam, the dis-service imposed by this massive block will greatly outweigh the 'service' it's supposed to perform.

It's like back in school, when the entire class would be put into detention because of the actions of one person, it was a pathetic method then and it's a pathetic method now. Ultimately, it comes down to the teacher/blocker being lazy and hoping that such drastic measures will induce the 'masses' to seek out and obliterate the offending party. I never saw such 'action' succeed at school, I doubt we'll see much happen from this either (apart from iritate a lot of people).

*disclaimer: school was more than half a lifetime ago - so perhaps my brain is rusty by now.

Re:It's not something that'll ever go away (4, Interesting)

NSash (711724) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970074)

"Blocking off an entire country" is meaningless in this context. You make it sound as if no one in Spain can send e-mail now; that's completely untrue. What has been blacklisted is e-mail originating from Spain's national ISP: that won't affect the Yahoo Mail, or hotmail, or GMail, or any other mail service accounts of people in Spain. Only the accounts provided by Telefonica De Espana, or companies that rely on them for hosting, will be blocked.

This is far less extreme than say, a spam filter that automatically flags email originating from hotmail and aol addresses as spam.

Re:It's not something that'll ever go away (3, Interesting)

inflex (123318) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970117)

You make it sound like no one ever uses their own corporate mail servers?

Not everyone uses yahoo, hotmail, gmail etc. A lot of local businesses will have localised mail servers, these people will now feel the crunch... I can imagine export type companies would really be wailing.

It's not like they all have time on their hands to start phoning up and complaning, let alone even KNOWING who to complain to (imagine if they're a few tiers down from the top ISP). How many of those business would know why their email all of a sudden wasn't being responded to.

Clients love getting email from joe@hotmail.com, very professional looking :-\

While this may actually induce something to happen, I still feel the cost on the innocents is just too high.

PLD.

It might be unfair... (3, Interesting)

dawg ball (773621) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970029)

... but it's about time that something serious was done to combat spam. It's a pity that some innocent ISPs have had to suffer because of this but maybe they, in turn, will also put pressure on ISPs that host spammers?

This is a good idea. (1, Redundant)

saden1 (581102) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970031)

When something drastic as this happens it forces change. I think the Spanish ISP and even lawmakers will take notice and take action.

What action? (1)

KalvinB (205500) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970124)

What can politicians possibly do to stop spam?

This is a social problem. Not a political problem. Trying to make it a political problem is just going to make the situation worse.

Ben

The future of blocking? (5, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970033)

The near future of blocklists may include all of these highly spam-tolerant areas:
  • China
  • Romania
  • Sub-Saharan Africa
  • Florida

Re:The future of blocking? (1)

inflex (123318) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970139)

Gee, I know it's a funny comment - but dang, I rarely see China up there in the top-3 spammer countries. Well over half of the spam I see comes from the good ole US of A. China and most of Asia actually seems to have culled a lot of their bad servers...or did some public-spammer executions |-X * _.->-

Shoot on sight... (4, Funny)

silentbozo (542534) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970034)

You may or may not like blacklists, but you gotta admit, they take their work seriously (from their list of return classifications when querying their blacklist DNS lookup):
Shoot On Sight (Response: 127.0.0.10)

This IP address is listed for one of several reasons. The provider, individual, or company did one of the following:

* Cart00ney threats made towards the AHBL, SOSDG, other blacklists, and spam fighters.
* Attempted and unsuccessful legal attacks against the AHBL, SOSDG, other blacklists, and spam fighters.
* Promotes, supports, or incites attacks against the AHBL, SOSDG, other blacklists, spam fighters, and others on the Internet.

Re:Shoot on sight... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970046)

Sounds like the only thing they take seriously is their little usenet flamewars.

No significa nada (1)

NSash (711724) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970035)

I don't see this as unreasonable at all. It's not like e-mail service knows national boundaries.

I think the ones who will be shocked by this are the ones who misunderstand and say, "Now no one in Spain can send e-mail!"

Sigh.

Been suggested before, but it's not the answer... (2, Insightful)

Mindcry (596198) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970036)

some suggested other countries be blocked in the past, but i believe over half of all spam originates from the US... i figure they probably should have tried to get the isp to kill the accounts sending the e-mails instead of blocking the country though... that seems kinda insane, cause you know once the kiddies see that they can get whole countries blocked, they'll jump right on it, and then the blacklist would be pretty worthless wouldn't it ;)

Wait'll someone figures out.... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970037)

...that since most spam originates in the US, the entire country should be blocked.

I, for one, would welcome it, living in the US. Get rid of my spam AND my e-mail. Productivity would go through the roof.

SCO (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970038)

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am Mr. Darl McBride currently serving as the president and chief executive
officer of the SCO Group, formerly known as Caldera Systems International, in
Lindon, Utah, United States of America. I know this letter might surprise you
because we have had no previous communications or business dealings before now.

My associates have recently made claim to computer softwares worth an estimated
$1 billion U.S. dollars. I am writing to you in confidence because we urgently
require your assistance to obtain these funds.

In the early 1970s the American Telephone and Telegraph corporation developed
at great expense the computer operating system software known as UNIX.
Unfortunately the laws of my country prohibited them from selling these
softwares and so their valuable source codes remained privately held. Under a
special arrangement some programmers from the California University of Berkeley
did add more codes to this operating system, increasing its value, but not in
any way to dilute or disparage our full and rightful ownership of these codes,
despite any agreement between American Telephone and Telegraph and the
California University of Berkeley, which agreement we deny and disavow.

In the year 1984 a change of regime in my country allowed the American
Telephone and Telegraph corporation to make profits from these softwares. In
the year 1990 ownership of these softwares was transferred to the corporation
UNIX System Laboratories. In the year 1993 this corporation was sold to the
corporation Novell. In the year 1994 some employees of Novell formed the
corporation Caldera Systems International, which began to distribute an upstart
operating system known as Linux. In the year 1995 Novell sold the UNIX software
codes to SCO. In the year 2001 occurred a separation of SCO, and the SCO brand
name and UNIX codes were acquired by the Caldera Systems International, and in
the following year the Caldera Systems International was renamed SCO Group, of
which i currently serve as chief executive officer.

My associates and I of the SCO Group are therefore the full and rightful owners
of the operating system softwares known as UNIX. Our engineers have discovered
that no fewer than seventy (70) lines of our valuable and proprietary source
codes have appeared in the upstart operating system Linux. As you can plainly
see, this gives us a claim on the millions of lines of valuable software codes
which comprise this Linux and which has been sold at great profit to very many
business enterprises. Our legal experts have advised us that our contribution
to these codes is worth an estimated one (1) billion U.S. dollars.

Unfortunately we are having difficulty extracting our funds from these computer
softwares. To this effect i have been given the mandate by my colleagues to
contact you and ask for your assistance. We are prepared to sell you a share in
this enterprise, which will soon be very profitable, that will grant you the
rights to use these valuable softwares in your business enterprise.
Unfortunately we are not able at this time to set a price on these rights.
Therefore it is our respectful suggestion, that you may be immediately a party
to this enterprise, before others accept these lucrative terms, that you send
us the number of a banking account where we can withdraw funds of a suitable
amount to guarantee your participation in this enterprise. As an alternative
you may send us the number and expiration date of your major credit card, or
you may send to us a signed check from your banking account payable to "SCO
Group" and with the amount left blank for us to conveniently supply.

Kindly treat this request as very important and strictly confidential. I
honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% legal and risk-free.

Signed, GNAA president

PS. If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

mod Down (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970042)

year contRact. Where it was when Creek, abysmal everything else baatled in court,

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970045)

I think something has gone horribly right.

Take some responsibility....

Next stop.. (1)

Dragonshed (206590) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970049)

yahoo.es mail [yahoo.com] or gmail.google.es once the thing goes public.

Re:Next stop.. (1)

Albin42 (773034) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970180)

es? endless spam?

Misused apostrophe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970055)

You meant: Spanish Internet Providers' SMTP traffic blocked because, while the title does not make this obvious, it was in fact the entire country that was blacklisted.

Whitelists (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970057)

A lot of systems use blacklists for protection, either against IPs, malformed inputs, and other attacks. However, most experts agree that whitelisting is safer than blacklisting, as it is possible to get around blacklists, such as using UTF-8 encoding for input attacks.
Wouldn't a whitelist be more appropriate against spam, so that only authorized MTAs would communicate with each other, and registration would need to take place before they are authorized?

third world countries... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970059)

...these third world countries need less computers and more plows, or other basic farming tools. The advanced nations need more, cheaper, food than we are currently getting...and all these losers do all day is send us spam...it's the wrong kind of spam. What a gyp.

The answer is yes (2, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970063)

One has to ask though, is blocking an entire country like this the future of spamfighting, or has something gone horribly wrong?

What went horribly wrong is that Telefonica should allow spammers to operate on their network. So yes, blacklisting them would, perhaps, send a much-needed signal to them.

Actually, if it was running a spam blocklist, I'd suggest that administrators using it automatically send out, every 1000 blocked mail or so, at random, an email explaining why an email from this domain was blocked. Eventually, such an auto-reply is bound to reach one of the domain's legit customers (in this case, Telefonica) who would in turn demand explanations from the ISP they leave money to.

Getting ISP customers to fight the spam war they would normally don't give a toss about is, in my opinion, the way to go against spammers.

Re:The answer is yes (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970185)

Sounds sorta like the North Korean mentality of "torture the families of political dissentors": get the familes of anyone who wants to speak out to go against anyone who might say something that is considered dissent.

Wonderful (5, Insightful)

Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970064)

This is amazing really.

All the democratizing functions, promises of free education, free dispersion of information, increased international communication and understanding..... all these things that the internet promised is being brought to it's knees because of penis enlargements, nigerian fraudsters, and greedy marketers all wanting to make a buck!

Don't mod this funny! It's NOT!

(Actually, now that I think of it, TV suffered the same fate. Originally touted as an educational resource, it turned into the junk box it is today. It's just history repeating.)

Re:Wonderful (3, Insightful)

statusbar (314703) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970123)

Maybe the real problem is PEOPLE themselves. The people who put the crap up, and the people who actually fall for it. When the internet started the people were all focused on specific research. Now it is a tv replacement.

--jeff++

not extreme in the least (1)

sensei_brandon (678735) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970069)

It seems that they gave the ISP ample time and the ISP did nothing. Fuck 'em! Let the ISP deal with all its irate customers whose international emails dont go through and they'll change their tune about spammers. I feel sorry for the thousands of users who didnt do anything to deserve this, but I also hate spam.

National ISP (2, Interesting)

GSPride (763993) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970070)

The article didn't make this too clear, so maybe someone can answer... Is this the only ISP in spain? Is it run by the spanish goverment? Because the way that AHBL phrased it announcement, it seems more like TDE is a smalltime provider in Spain. Can anyone clear this up?

Re:National ISP (3, Informative)

LibrePensador (668335) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970126)

Telefonica is the biggest ISP in Spain. There are others, but Telefonica's servers route a huge portion of Spain's emails, so this is significant.

Re:National ISP (2, Insightful)

Guus.der.Kinderen (774520) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970172)

According to this ( http://www.telefonica.com/quienes/ing/ ) they're pretty big; the major telephone company of Spain, as far as I can tell.

Dumb (1, Flamebait)

KalvinB (205500) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970075)

I don't think nuking large countries in an effort to kill a few flies can in any way be rationalized as an intelligent measure.

This blacklist has just made it very clear that they're more retarded than the spammers and that their blacklist should be avoided.

They're advocating more damage be caused than any amount of spam could ever cause.

Spam is not a political problem. It's a social problem. Trying to force countries to treat it like a political problem is just going to result in more stupid laws that don't do anything.

For my e-mail server I filter out domains that spammers use. And I get very little spam as a result. What spam I do get, I forward to my spam@icarusindie.com account (where all "report as spam" spam goes) and take care of it the next update. And with a current list of ~980 domains, that works out to around $8000 or so I've cost spammers. All without inflicting any collateral damage or trying to pull a stupid stunt to try to influence the leaders of a country.

These blacklist runners have just become more desperate and irrational than the spammers. Spammers try very hard to get through my system and I can sit back and drink my Coke and beat the crap out of them without spilling a drop.

I can just see these people out there with a crazed look in their eyes widly swinging a baseball bat and hitting only air.

KNOCK IT OFF!

Ben

Re:Dumb (1)

Digital Avatar (752673) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970112)

> For my e-mail server I filter out domains that spammers use. And I get very little spam as a result.

Really? You must not get much spam from .cz. You may not think that spam is a political problem, but it's not like any chinese carrier really gives a damn about what some American thinks about one of their users spamming. "Hah. Come and get me, jerk" - that's what they're thinking. So long as spammers are free to harass people with impunity and the cost of prosecution is insanely high and no one is motivated to stop them, well, banning countries that don't take steps to lower those costs sounds like a great idea... again, with the provision that users be able to bypass such aggressive filtering to receive mail from such domains if they see fit.

I don't know where spam comes from (1)

KalvinB (205500) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970158)

it doesn't matter.

The fact of the matter is that spammers use common domains. It doesn't matter in slightest that a spammer from X is trying to advertise using Y.com. They could be from Z or Q for all I care. All that matters is that they're advertising using Y.com and so it doesn't get through. Forging a header or using a proxy does them absolutly no good because my quite effective spam blocking technique doesn't rely on the header at all.

And now if they want to bug me they can't use Y.com. They have to fork over real cash to purchase Y2.com and that'll be blocked as soon as they try anything. Repeat until they're tired of wasting money on domains.

It doesn't cost money to get a new IP. There are plenty of proxies in the world. It costs real money to buy a domain and there's no avoiding it. You can advertise a raw IP that hosts the product page but that's just as easy to block as a domain. And static IPs are even less cheap than domain names.

I don't mind that little trickle of spam that finds it's way into my inbox because I found a way to stick it to the spammers without sticking it to anyone else.

Ben

Recourse? (1)

joeszilagyi (635484) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970136)

And if an ISP absolutely refuses to address any spam issues or complaints, what is supposed to be done then? It's like an intervention--if someone has a problem, and will not acknowledge that problem, you get someone else--in this case, the whole country--to get them to correct their destructive behavior.

Blocklists don't block email (4, Insightful)

jhunsake (81920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970076)

e-mail will be blocked by their blacklisting service

Nope, only *you* can block email to *your* server.

Re:Blocklists don't block email (2, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970171)

Nope, only *you* can block email to *your* server.

Those who blindly trust a blocklist will get burned eventually. Don't just trust some stranger you meet on the Internet to do your work for you... they will eventually screw up when you're not looking.

Blacklist 'em all. (1)

Digital Avatar (752673) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970079)

How many of you actually receive legitimate mail from spain? Were it up to me, I'd ban all of China while we're at it. Insofar as end-users can exempt themselves from blocking so they can still receive mail from nations-non-grata then I wouldn't have a problem with banning mail from half the planet.

Sadly, though, my ISP doesn't give me that option... but they should.

Re:Blacklist 'em all. (2, Insightful)

LibrePensador (668335) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970143)

Are you drunk, crazy or both?

Spain is one of the largest economies in Europe and one of the largest tourist venues in the world.

Apart from this, are you preparing to negate the value of communicating with a whole country for the convenience of not having to delete a few emails?

You must be nuts!

Re:Blacklist 'em all. (1)

Digital Avatar (752673) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970165)

> Are you drunk, crazy or both?

Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel.

> Spain is one of the largest economies in Europe and one of the largest tourist venues in the world.

And this impacts me as an individual...how?

> Apart from this, are you preparing to negate the value of communicating with a whole country for the convenience of not having to delete a few emails?

Key word: value. Communicating with spain has no value for me. I imagine that this is true for the vast majority of the world as well. However, for those few people that do need to talk to someone in spain, I would rather that they have some means to contact people therein that doesn't involve making the rest of us suffer emails regarding Paris Hilton sex tapes, penis enlargement pills, and great offers to make money fast. This isn't about convenience... this is about having my bandwidth wasted by this crap (something which wont be resolved by filtering on my end). This is about being _harassed_ with the tacit consent of major countries. I'm sorry, but if takes net.death to make some nations stand up and make it easier to track spammers down and grind them into snail snot, then let's do it.

its fine (3, Insightful)

P0lyh34) (602065) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970082)

I've been blocking all of china for 2 years now. Basically if its in unicode, my server rejects it.

Seems like a good idea, doesn't it? (1)

crowley_dk (636133) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970086)


Blocking a whole country should really get people aware that they have a problem, and get them out of the chair to fix it.

Unfortunatly that's whishfull thinking. What will really happen is that any service provider who used AHBL will get tons of complaints from Spanish costumers who can't send them emails - so the service provider kicks out AHBL because happy costumers is worth more than principle.

Internet passports (1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970088)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Banning (sub)nets will not fix the problem. It will only excarbate the problems in the flow of information on the net.

What we need is an international infrastructure supporting unique, traceable and hard-to-forge proofs of user identity on the net. Think of it as a passport or a driver's license. We have real life IDs that are difficult to forge and even if you can forge them, you'd get hit by hefty penalties for doing it. Yes. It could be abused but what can't? At least the system would government controlled and thus a lesser evil than the tyranny of vigilante groups like SPEWS. No ID? your data packets will go to /dev/null. Sent spam? You'll be tracked down by the ID in each packet you sent.

Re:Internet passports (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970193)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Wow, I wonder why people haven't changed their ways since you first said it. I mean, you're such a luminary, and on behalf of the rest of the World, I apologize for making you repeat your wise words again.

Or, more likely, you're Mister Nobody posting on Slashdot and nobody gives a flying fuck about what you said, say or will say ever.

Rima-TDE will be a loss for professional trolls. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970091)

I am a professional troll. To be a sucseffull professional troll there is one thing you need lots of: open proxies (to circumvent bans).

I have to say, next to the big us cable companies (Comcast, Roadrunner, etc..) Rima-TDE is a fucking goldmine for open proxies. Losing Rima-TDE will be a reasonably large loss for the trolling community.

It's really quite simple... (2, Insightful)

jollis (691129) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970093)

If you don't agree with a BL's listing criteria or policies, don't use it.

There's a variety of DNSBLs out there. Some attempt to list spam sources (IPs from which spam is injected) with surgical precision whilst others go for the 'spam support' services, typically listing increasing swaths of space as the responsible party refuses to act (SPEWS for one).

In many cases the surgical approach simply won't do. Playing whack-a-mole with a fake ISP/spam support service isn't everybody's game.

A sucker is born every minute... (1)

utahraptor (703433) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970099)

Maybe I will just send an email like this to everyone: Dear joe@blow.com: I am not going to try and sell you anything. I am not going to tell you how to make millions either. I don't even want to make your penis bigger. I simply am asking you to give me your money. Please send me at least $10.00 in American currency.

Re:A sucker is born every minute... (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970187)

Add "Or I'll eat a kitten. Please forward this to 20 people" and it just might work.

spamfighting? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970105)

Too many people (usually in end-user magazines which say "Squash Spam Forever!" on three out of every four covers in bright bold covers) state too much spam is coming from overseas. This is a partial truth. The spammers live in the US but they are using ISPs overseas to spam us here. Why? Because Chinese ISPs aren't going to say, "no" to nice, crisp, American currency. Now, there are more and more US ISPs which are blocking *.cn, *.jp, *.kr (China, Japan, and Korea, respectively, but in no particular order).

What's really funny is to see Chinese ISPs who hit US blocks when the US response is "Sorry, we don't accept spam" and the China response is, "Take off Block!" and it goes back & forth until the Chinese ISPs back off.

China is starting to wonder what they should do to reduce spam - in all places - in China. The funny thing is, they don't understand what volume the electronic turds their clientele are sending because so it's not directed at them.

Update SMTP ... (2, Interesting)

psilonaut (756938) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970110)

With things like this happening, isn't updating/replacing SMTP with something new to address the current problems, a viable option yet ?

Gandi.net (2, Interesting)

azav (469988) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970114)

I have noticed that the vast majority of spam that I get reference domains registered at http://gandi.net

I'd LOVE to be able to block by registrar.

Does anyone know how to get a registrar shut down??

One problem with blocking entire countries (3, Informative)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970134)

The United States produces more spam than any other country.

Re:One problem with blocking entire countries (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8970153)

No shit. We have the largest number of users.

This doesn't happen overnight. (4, Informative)

dinodrac (247713) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970141)


Rima-tde's long time treatment of abuse complaints has lead to them being labeled by many in the community as a rogue provider.

This has continued for quite some time, as evidenced by archived usenet posts (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rima-tde&ie=UTF -8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search)

Getting up there along with the likes of HINET and Chinese state-run providers takes some serious work, and in goes to show Telefonica De Espana's commitment to its spammers!

Congratulations to them on this well deserved moment of (in)fame.

:-O (1)

macgyvr64 (678752) | more than 10 years ago | (#8970149)

O dios mio!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...