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Review: LinuxCertified LC2210 Laptop

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the it-plays-oggs dept.

Linux Business 155

'It's me' writes "OSNews reviews LinuxCertified's LC2210 laptop, which comes with Xandros Desktop 2.0. That laptop is meant to be 100% certified with Linux, but Xandros seemed to have problems with it (namely there is no "sleep" function, while WiFi was not as robust as users would want it). LinuxCertified said that newer distros should be able to support this laptop with no hickups. The reviewer concludes that this a great purchase, as long as you are more selective over the distro installed."

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It goes to show. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049134)

Great. When are manufacturers going to really give us the details that they want?

Study - Trolls, are they sexy? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049240)

It has come to my attention that Slashdot trolls are in actual fact far more attractive to women than their Slashbot counterparts. The big question is why.

Is this due to the trolls actually getting out in the sun? Is this due to the lack of flies surrounding them? Is this due to most of them actually having a job (student, lecturer and open source zealot do not count as jobs, sorry guys). Maybe Slashbots have a fetish for penguins, or possibly hairy men, and do not care if they are not attractive to women?

Opinions of Slashbots and Trolls alike are more than welcome in this study.

Re:Study - Trolls, are they sexy? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049437)

Is this due to most of them actually having a job (student, lecturer and open source zealot do not count as jobs, sorry guys).

All chicks care about is money. If you have a steady income, they don't give a shit if you have a job. Witness all the trust fund babies and their trophy wives or gang members with their "hoes".

Re:Study - Trolls, are they sexy? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049473)

All chicks care about is money. If you have a steady income, they don't give a shit if you have a job.

Spoken like an academic who has never had a girlfriend and cant seem to figure out it may actually be because of the flies swarming around him, not due to money.

Im certainly not rolling in it, but I dont seem to have troubles finding women. Maybe look in the mirror, have a shave, stop living in the basement, kill those flies buzzing around you, stop speaking in l337 5p34k and frothing at the mouth every time somebody mentions Windows and you might atually find yourself a woman

In Soviet Russia. . . (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049135)

. . . Linux Certifies YOU!


I am glad to see... (5, Insightful)

odano (735445) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049143)

that certified actually doesn't mean certified completely. I'm sure this will instill a lot of confidence in non-linux users going to linux.

You said it. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049259)

I'm not as patient as I wish I was, which is a failing many share. As a result I don't want to spend spare hours I don't have just trying to get a system to do what I need it to do. No, installing Linux isn't difficult. But trying to figure out how to install additional (and often essential) stuff, especially drivers, is not easy, particularly if you're unfortunate enough to have spent the past X (meaning, too many) years of your life becoming familiar with Windows, and forgetting about something called a command line (and a very different syntax).

I know Windows pretty damn well now (which is why I'd love to switch to Linux...), and I began in the dark days of MS-DOS, but back then I had the time and the contacts to get help with it, to get going. That's not an option available to me any more, or most of those like me who want to switch after years as Windoze Lusers.

The hand-holding of knowledgable, experienced users helped me get started with computers, and from there I could start figuring things out for myself, but now I just need Linux to work. Once I can do what I need to, then maybe I can tinker and become familiar with the other, more geeky bits. But not if I'm expected or required to spend untold hours of hair-pulling and HOWTO-reading just to get the computer to actually work.

Come on Linux folk: start getting fully-working machines to market, and the rest of us will take the plunge. Or do you feel it should be the exclusive province of uber-geeks...?

Re:I am glad to see... (4, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049483)

and it pretty much means low-end.

I looked over the specs and the video on it is extremely dismal... intel chipset shared memory video... SIS video would have been better.

you are better off buying a different brand with higher end components and ignoring the useless modem or getting it without all the "built in's" and using pcmcia cards for greater compatability and performance.

It is a very expensive low end laptop. a linux user is better off with a non "certified" regular brand from HP or sony.

Re:I am glad to see... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049498)

Nothing better than licking Ariel Sharon's asshole.

Commander in Chief
George W Bush

Well... (4, Funny)

gnu-sucks (561404) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049147)

The reviewer concludes that this a great purchase, as long as you are more selective over the distro installed.

Well, thats the case with windows machines too.

Re:Well... (5, Insightful)

gnu-sucks (561404) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049217)

And just to validate my statement, let me mention briefl the 'ups' of the laptop, and the 'downs':


The laptop has a pretty good, bright screen (minus one dead pixel, visible when the background is dark).

Performance is very good. In fact, I think that laptop has more sprightly response and speed than any of my other machines here. KDE's and Xandros' applications pretty much load instantly. 3D support is also preconfigured and display a flight simulator with no lag at all.

The feel and construction of the laptop is very solid overall. The keyboard's feel is also very good, I just wish the PgUp key was not just next to the BACKSPACE key...

I tried out my USB Palm device and it worked out well with any of the usb slots. Ethernet also worked very well and with no problems. I burned an ISO image with the DVD/CD-RW combo drive, which also worked fine. On board speakers did the job as expected as well.

Being a Centrino, battery life is pretty good.

ok, now the downs:

While this product is Linux-certified, the "sleep" function simply doesn't work.

Half the time the WiFi card won't initialize

When I visited the KDE control center and clicked the "monitor" preference panel, Xandros greeted me with an alert box telling me that it won't allow me to do anything

On the front of the laptop, there are four "quick launch internet buttons" for email, browsing etc, but pressing them does nothing at all. Apparently there is no driver for them or a remapping tool available on Xandros.

So basically, the battery, display, and keyboard work. As does the USB, sound, cd-burner, and presumably the firewire port. Unfortunately, the sleep function does not, nor do the included extra shortcut keys. And to top it off, the wifi gui setup appears to have some issues.

Now, these are all rather standard issues with a non-linux certified laptop. Regular hardware (video, mouse, keyboard, cdrom) works, and laptop-specific hardware (sleep, wifi pcmcia cards, funky extra keys) does not. However, with linux certification, I would expect at least sleep to work. Thats a core point of a laptop. And Wifi today is so essential to working without being plugged in, I'd rate it right up with sleep and battery life.

While this laptop does for some reason claim to be linux certified, anyone can buy an off-the-shelf compaq, ibm, toshiba, or viao and have the same experience. The only thing that makes this laptop, complete with its 'internet shortcut keys' that don't work, linux-certified is that it comes without windows.

Re:Well... (4, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049236)

I would like the moderators who modded down this comment to confess if they have ever tried to run:

Retail Windows (any variety) on a Vaio or a recent Stinkpad.

There is such a thing as a windows distro. Big vendors have always gone and replaced the parts of windows that sting particularly bad with parts that more or less work. So it is in fact: which particular vendor variety of Windows are you running:


1. Dell and Windows NT frustration - get working PCMCIA hot-plug. If you run retail - you do not.
2. Sony and Windows 2000 - get working power management. If you run retail - you do not.
3. IBM and Windows XP - get working WEP with preshared 128 bit keys and a reasonable network connection manager (that can make any connection interdependent on each other, not just dialup and execute external commands to bring connections.)

So on so forth.

Re:Well... (1)

W2k (540424) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049661)

Retail Windows (any variety) on a Vaio or a recent Stinkpad.

Congratulations for placing yourself in the "so l33t I can't spell" camp with that comment. Though I admit, "Stinkpad" is a bit more inventive than "Windoze".

Anyway, I am in fact using Windows XP on a ThinkPad, less than a year old. I wiped the hard drive when I got it, installed Windows XP from scratch, and downloaded the drivers I needed from IBM's website. Everything, including WEP, is working marvelously. Best laptop I ever used.

I would mod you down for posting such bullcrap, but by posting this, I am of course giving up any chance to do so. A shame.

I think this is great! (4, Funny)

Phidoux (705500) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049149)

Even if there are a few hiccups, it's still nice to know that there are laptops available that don't have the "Designed for Microsoft" sticker on them.

Re:I think this is great! (1, Insightful)

gnu-sucks (561404) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049227)

yeah, but it might as well - four glaring internet shortcut keys are completely unsupported by the 'supported' operating system. These keys, no doubt, would work under windows, which the laptop is clearly designed for.

Of course, its nice not paying the microsoft tax on the sale though!!!

Re:I think this is great! (1)

B2382F29 (742174) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049328)

Maybe it is not supported in combination with commandline and lynx.

But i am sitting right here with a Microsoft Internet Keyboard (hey, i got it for free) and all keys are working with Gnome 2.6

Re:I think this is great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049689)

Why not just run xev, find out what keycodes the keys are sending out, and then map them to something?

Interesting (5, Interesting)

moxruby (152805) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049152)

This is an encouraging step forward. I've bought a few laptops off ebay in my time and spent many an hour researching beforehand to ensure that every part would work with my favourite OS.

What would be great would be an independant company that could certify linux compatibility for a one off fee. I realise there are various websites where users can submit whether it worked for them or not, but it can take a while for new hardware to be listed and the information is often out of date.

Fee? Excuse me? (-1, Troll)

King Slashbot (769161) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049249)

Ever heard of free? As in speech? Charging money for this goes against the entire philosophy of GNU and FSF.

All the information is out there, why not just provide it freely to end users. After all, information wants to be free!

Re:Fee? Excuse me? (2, Insightful)

moxruby (152805) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049288)

Ever heard of free? As in speech? Charging money for this goes against the entire philosophy of GNU and FSF.

Huh? How is a company charging money to put a piece of hardware through a series of tests against the philosophy of the FSF?

The manufacturer would then gain the right to put a "Linux certified" sticker on their product. Consumers who want linux compatability just have to look for the logo to be sure it will work.

Re:Fee? Excuse me? (1)

dot-magnon (730521) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049311)

I agree with this. Though, there are inconsitencies. You could say "Linux 2.6 certified", while it may not work with one distribution's set of kernel patches. Well, if the LSB could be extended somehow, one could use that as a base for certifying. "Linux Standards Base 1.2 Certified" would do better, because distributions could say they are, too. And that's nothing you can fool. Either the lsb test suite runs, or it won't.

Re:Fee? Excuse me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049427)

Huh? How is a company charging money to put a piece of hardware through a series of tests against the philosophy of the FSF?

because YHBT

Re:Fee? Excuse me? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049424)

Ever heard of free? As in speech? Charging money for this goes against the entire philosophy of GNU and FSF.

All the information is out there, why not just provide it freely to end users. After all, information wants to be free!

Dang, I have modpoints but amongst all the options there is not ability to mark this post 'Product of the fevered mind of a pinhead'

Linux on laptops resources (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049271)

Ebay [] seems like the way to go nowadays for most large ticket items, so long as you buy from reputable dealer. If you want to check out if laptops are compatible with linux, go to Linux on Laptops [] . On most popular laptops they have detailed lists of what distros are compatible with what portion of the hardware. Some of them like mandrake are better than windows with drivers out of the box.

Power management (4, Interesting)

manavendra (688020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049158)

I'm not particularly in touch with this aspect of Linux, but I've heard that power management features haven't been all that great in Linux...and if that's true, then it comes as no surprise that there isn't a "sleep" function.

For linux acceptability and use to grow, as others have been mentioning, it has to have other, not-so-geek important features that ordinary users will keep asking for

Re:Power management (4, Informative)

dot-magnon (730521) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049164)

Power management and all these kinds of functions are well supported by Linux itself and the GUI systems. The problems are hardware inconsistency, that makes it very hard to provide non-proprietary drivers. There's no hardware vendor that provide you with linux drivers for their odd power management systems.

Re:Power management (1)

manavendra (688020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049188)

The problems are hardware inconsistency, that makes it very hard to provide non-proprietary drivers

With pre-packaged systems from a specific vendor, couldn't the Linux distro-company get drives from the OEM? Surely there has to be a provision in the contract clauses somewhere enabling them to get their hands on the drives for compatibility etc?

If not, then it's a very disheartening in-fight within the ranks of the vendor selling the Laptops, and you know that wouldn't take them too far!

Re:Power management (1)

dot-magnon (730521) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049208)

Linux open source distribution vendors do not want to use proprietary software in their free systems. Some provide things like NVIDIA drivers, Macromedia Flash players etc. in their paid systems, and give links to their free customers. That's not the main problem. Vendors that give out binary support for their systems, get that used. We see that with Nvidia and ATI, et cetera. The problem is that these vendors do not want to waste resources on making Linux drivers. That's the problem.

Re:Power management (4, Informative)

Dever (564514) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049220)

You know, having installed linux on my laptops (compaq cx1000 and vaio grt160) and moved on from APM to ACPI daemon, i've had excellent power management. i've got my prism2 based wlan cards working fine, and can use powermanagement fine (S1...).

You can even get custom DSDT's (Differentiated System Description Table, config info about the underlying system) for many laptops that have broken implementations (the bane of linux compatibility in most cases imo). It's not perfect yet, but it's come really far.

A good distro for seeing if bits and pieces work on newish laptops (read:after2001 or so) quickly is suse. i slap it on a 2 gig partition and see what happens.

although in the case of suse and many others until recently, centrino wlan was not doable

Re:Power management (3, Informative)

prockcore (543967) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049226)

Power management and all these kinds of functions are well supported by Linux itself and the GUI systems. The problems are hardware inconsistency,

That's true. The power management on PPC Linux for powerbooks works wonderfully. Probably because the power management for powerbooks is all the same.

By wonderfully I mean that the LCD will dim after a few minutes of being idle, it will suspend after 10 minutes of being idle, it will suspend and wakeup correctly when the lid is shut and opened.

Re:Power management (2, Interesting)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049216)

Most hardware vendors have poor bios implementations for standard ACPI functions. Probably it's because, as everything in the IT market, the products are rushed to market without proper testing and quality control. Later on it's easier to fix the bugs with custom 'distorted' drivers that provide proper functionality on Windows. Manufacturers obviously don't want to overwhelm customers with repeated bios updates that could potentially produce a 'bricktop' and would ruin their reputations. On the other hand they cut costs and don't bother to provide 'recovery' bioses so in any case the windows patch'n go approach is most economical. That's what they think at teast... after struggling with a borrowed Asus laptop on FreeBSD and Linux I held my breath and bought a PowerBook... someone else ate their cake...

Re:Power management (1)

Maqueo (766442) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049350)

Well, power management (the apmd module) has been know to hang quite a few laptops, including mine when trying to install the basics. You have to disable it during install, and even then you have to use Gnome over Kde, as Kde uses some related functions anyways (thus hanging the laptop). This was damn annoying to figure out, considering I'm a total n00b (actually a bit less after all this ;) Glad I had and old desktop where I ran smoothly without a fuzz... that motivated me to get it running on the laptop.

Re:Power management (3, Informative)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049806)

I'm not particularly in touch with this aspect of Linux, but I've heard that power management features haven't been all that great in Linux

From what I have heard, the Linux-implementation of APM/ACPI is pretty good. It follows the spec closely. The problem is that Microsofts implementation is not as good. It has bugs and other "weird things" in it.

Now, just about all laptops and the like are "designed for Windows XP" or some other crap like that. So they need to work with Windows and it's APM/ACPI-implementation. And that means it has to go around the bugs in the MS's implementation of it. While they do that, they deviate further away from the spec, and that means that implementations that follow the official spec more closely (like Linux) have problems with it.

There is no "sleep" (5, Funny)

aardwolf204 (630780) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049162)

That laptop is meant to be 100% certified with Linux, but Xandros seemed to have problems with it (namely there is no "sleep" function)

Sleep?! Linux [] geeks [] dont [] need [] no [] stinkin' [] sleep! []

But seriously, nice to see linux certified consumer hardware making its way into the market.

Sorry for they thinkgeek plugging, not associated, just a happy part of the smart masses

Re:There is no "sleep" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049219)

Linux has by far better sleep support. It shuts down my monitors automatically and it doesn't crash when I move the mouse / press a key afterwards.
Also, I can do a hdparm -y /dev/hdx anytime to spindown a disk. Real handy. hdparm -Y /dev/hdx makes it shutdown completely until a reboot so be careful with that.
The hibernate function came a little late because, well, who needs that? Most of the time the PC keeps running 24/7 just so the user can always ssh to it.

There are several issues with hibernating, like the clock not ticking (obviously) so you'd need to ntpdate on each resume.

Anyway, this may be a big step forward. I hate those Windows stickers. Maybe we'll see models with Penguin stickers on them in stores in a few years so people can say 'Oh how cute it comes with this lovely fat penguin on it!' :)

Re:There is no "sleep" (2, Insightful)

aardwolf204 (630780) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049263)

Anyway, this may be a big step forward. I hate those Windows stickers. Maybe we'll see models with Penguin stickers on them in stores in a few years so people can say 'Oh how cute it comes with this lovely fat penguin on it!' :)

Now that you mention it, having a cute little "Certified" penguin sticker slapped on PCs and Laptops next to the windows sticker would really help linux adoption. Not sure who that certificate issuer would be, and what hardware requirements would need to be met, but I'm sure it would make a few heads turn.

For all you up tight /ers, yeah I know the logistics of it would be a nightmare, flamewars about distros and compatability would start, holy wars would break out on usenet, microsoft would bully around OEMs not to put the linux sticker on the notebooks, or even better put the "designed for windows xp" sticker on top of the cute penguin sticker, and riots would break out in luxemburg, but hey, I can dream cant I?

Just saying, it would be a great PR move, and if someone big, say IBM or Dell started doing it, even if it just comes with a copy of Knoppix, it would start a trend. I can see the glowing green Tux sticker on the alienware notebooks already.

Advantages ? (4, Interesting)

farley13 (773489) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049183)

"that this a great purchase"
What exactly is the promise of a Linux certified laptop ? Honest. With off and on support of WiFi, and neglible power saving I don't see any advantage. The hardware itself doesn't sound like anything special. With the use of linux on embeded systems rising, it would be great to see a more fine tuned approach to specialized 'Laptop' distros. heh!

I don't see this appealing to Joe User outa the box either, considering the hoops one would have to go through to get it completely 'functional'. Might as well install a fresh distro and make sure the hardware you buy is well supported. I know of at least a few freinds with better laptop setups, who did exactly that.

Many more generations to go! right?

Re:Advantages ? (2, Informative)

jole (4348) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049242)

Moreover, the offered SXGA+ screen does not work with Linux. It is ridiculous that some basic parts (like screen and power management) of a 'Linux-certified' laptop just don't work. IMHO Intel is shooting itself on the foot by not supporting its own hardware. I hope that AMD comes up with a good, supported competitor for Centrino ASAP.

For those wanting to have a working UNIX-laptop, I would recommend buying a PowerBook or an iBook instead of Linux-laptop. Everything works like charm - just apt-get it with fink. Only downsides are the G4 (when compared to Pentium-M) and low screen resolutions (when compared to SXGA+ or better screens offered on PC:s). Even the pricing is nowadays competitive with comparable PC:s.

Re:Advantages ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049645)

I bought an earlier version of the Linux Certified laptop - the LC2000. The reason I bought it was that I just wanted a vanilla laptop, running linux, without paying the microsoft (or apple) tax.

I also didn't have a lot of time to devote to fiddling with the configurations because my primary job is as a scientist and not configuring computers.

It has worked out very well. The laptop came with some shell scripts specifically for the hardware, and though sleep may not work perfectly, it is a functional and - so far - robust machine, and it does exactly what I want. -- and it was a good price.

So - I give it a thumbs up and think it is generally good trend to see more people taking the time to provide hardware with the specific intent of using Linux on it.

First prime factorization post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049192)

2210 = 2 * 5 * 13 * 17

Re:First prime factorization post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049478)

2210 ^ (1/2) = (2 * 5 * 13 * 17) ^ (1/2)

(2 * 5 * 13 * 17) ^ (1/2) = 2210 ^ (1/2)

x ^ (1/2) = x ^ (1/2)

x = x

The real problem (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049196)

The real issue is how bad Linux sucks.

price (0, Funny)

dncsky1530 (711564) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049198)

this article doesn't mention price but i'm curious to see if any fees were payed to the SCO.

But.... (-1)

QuasiCoLtd (727325) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049202)

But can it run Lin...... oh..... nevermind....

or perhaps.. (1)

next1 (742094) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049496)

can it run windows?

yes i know it can, it was a lame joke right from the start ;-)

huh? (4, Insightful)

matticus (93537) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049206)

He recommends the laptop "with another distribution", but doesn't actually try it with another distribution. There are no pictures of the laptop, and a very poor description of it. I smell "reviewer who got a free laptop if he would write a review but wasn't qualified to do so".

Re:huh? (-1, Flamebait)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049476)

He reviewed it as provided, like ANY reviewer worth a shit will do. It's up to the manufacturer to make things work, not the end-user. I smell "Poster that doesn't know a fucking thing about reviews."

Re:huh? (1)

matticus (93537) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049803)

but he obviously didn't "review" it objectively. If it's linux-certified, why did parts not work but he still gave it a high score because "it could work with another distro?" The mods have given you flamebait, but i'll bite. Why would you make a totally unsubstantiated claim like he did if his goal was only to review as provided? If he believes it's "up to the manufacturer to make things work, not the end-user", why would he even make a comment on using another distro?

Re:huh? (0)

xoran99 (745620) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049704)

I smell "reviewer who got a free laptop if he would write a review but wasn't qualified to do so".

Um, I'd be willing to write a review for a free laptop... Just email me...

someday (1)

motiv8x (658048) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049209)

somday, someone will get everything working out of the box for linux.

Xandros? (1)

Anonytroll (751214) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049221)

Don't they still have the 2.4 Kernel? I would assume the missing power features would have worked with a 2.6 Kernel or even a 2.4 Kernel with the ACPI-Patches.

Re:Xandros? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049257)

kernal version!? that the excuse?

it seems you're damned if you do or damned if you don't in the linux world when distributions choose which technology to support by default.

if you want an easy distro and bleeding-edge technology; go mandrake.

Re:Xandros? (1)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049838)

Xandros 2.0 (at least the Business edition I've been using) run the 2.4.24 kernel with some patches backported to the kernel. ACPI is working fine on 2.4.24, no tinkering required.

Interesting... (-1, Offtopic)

ArbiterOne (715233) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049241)

What's a hickup? Is it anything like a pickup? If so, I'm glad I won't need a pickup to support it.
You never know with these newer laptops...

Re:Interesting... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049269)

I think it's someone from Alabama. Those hicks are never up to any good.

Shouldn't it just work? (5, Insightful)

TheBigOh(n) (618100) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049244)

Everything should work out of the box or there is no point in trying to sell it. I am sorry, but if I buy something that says linux certified on it, the sleep function should work without any effort my part. Why not just hack at a new machine without the linux sticker on it myself like I have been doing all these years? Most of us linux folk get some sort of twisted pleasure out of that kind of thing anyway. Furthermore, why would a linux novice buy a machine without a working sleep function? Its one thing to sell a house or a car and say that it is an ole' fixer upper. A laptop? C' mon.

Yes it is a great step forward, but it just seems like a half-assed one to me. Call this trolling, but if linux ever hopes to gain any respect as a desktop OS, then people shouldn't be selling "linux certified" products that don't work as they should.

True. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049377)

When I know my WiFi card will work on a Linux box as well as it does under Windows (or better!), and everything else too, without me having to "learn computers" all over again, I will become a Linux user. Until then, no. I just don't have the time to spare. Which is a real shame, because I really do want -- need -- a better OS!

Re:True. (1)

next1 (742094) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049546)

they offer wifi card as standard/optional on their laptops.

there's always going to be some learning curve switching os - i know nothing about macs..

Re:Shouldn't it just work? (2, Informative)

Stephen VanDahm (88206) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049409)

I agree that stuff should 'just work' out of the box. According to the LinuxCertified website [] , this laptop costs $1399. I recently bought an Apple iBook with similar specs for about the same price. The Apple works correctly straight out of the box and OS X runs nearly all Linux programs for which the source is available. Besides that, it gives you the option of using commercial products like Quicken or Adobe Photoshop, if you need to use those for anything.

Since Apple's laptop prices are about the same as similarly-equipped x86 laptops and since OS X is a pretty complete UNIX workalike, it's pretty difficult to justify buying a Linux-only laptop at all, much less one that doesn't work 100%. If you're buying a laptop and want to go the UNIX-only route, an Apple laptop is the best choice in nearly every measurable respect. If, for some reason (and admittedly there are some), you require an x86 processor, you should just get a Dell or a Thinkpad with Windows preinstalled, repartition the disk, and install Linux or BSD yourself. At least that way, you can keep your Windows partition around for playing games and running commercial software applications like Photoshop.


Re:Shouldn't it just work? (1)

huchida (764848) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049487)

This may not be the one, but wouldn't it be nice if there was a notebook designed for Linux first, Windows second?

Re:Shouldn't it just work? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049814)

How about they stop cutting horrible corners and follow the specs?

The reason why laptops often don't work 100% in linux is because developers don't follow specs then write windows drivers to cover up missing hardware functionality.


Apples to Oranges (2, Informative)

jole (4348) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049556)

If you need to develop with Java using a modern IDE, an Apple laptop might not be what you are looking for. G4 is a lot slower running Eclipse than Pentium-M.

Anyway - I am currently typing an 800Mhz iBook G4 very happily and even run Eclipse on this one occasionally :)

Apple laptops (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049808)

What if you want two, or (((GASP!!))) THREE mouse buttons???

No wait. I must be being silly. Why would ANYBODY want more than one mousebutton?

Dell Inspiron 600m (4, Informative)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049245)

It works!

Really, though. For my needs, it's AWESOME. I use Fedora C1.

X works out of the gate, as expected. CHECK

Sound works with the base install, as expected. CHECK

Network card works immediately, as expected, at 1 Gb. (w00t!) CHECK

CD-Burner works immediately, as expected. CHECK

DVD works simply by updating /etc/yum.conf with the offshore repositories that have decsslib. CHECK

ACPI power management and CPU throttling (with cpudyn) works easily. (had to google to find that I had to put "acpi=force" on the linux line in grub.conf) CHECK

USB stuff works as expected in the base install. I've hot swapped my mouse and a digital camera - both work instantly and easily. CHECK

What's left?

1) The modem is a funky broadcom chipset that's not supported by linmodem or pctel drivers. I have an old 33.6 3com pcmcia modem card that works fine. =/

2) Wireless with the Intel 2200 BG chipset is spotty, if at all. (so far, unable to confirm operation using ndiswrapper [] ) =/

3) I haven't yet gotten it to see my Verizon Cell phone as a modem to use it for anytime/anywhere/slow service in those rare cases it's needed. For now I'll boot into WinXP when this is needed. =/

Given the problem - that of allowing me to retain the functional capacity of my 2 Ghz Athlon Desktop system in a laptop, it's a resounding success, allowing me to retain my productivity just about anywhere.

Would I *LIKE* wireless? Would I *LIKE* modem w/o card? Sure I would - and I'm still not convinced that wireless won't work.

But the primary issue for me is productivity - not necessarily having every last bell and whistle.

Oh, and I did use 9 of the 60 GB of disk space to keep the copy of XP Home running in those rare cases that I really do need it. (Hello wireless)

Re:Dell Inspiron 600m (1)

onion2k (203094) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049379)

DVD works simply by updating /etc/yum.conf with the offshore repositories that have decsslib. CHECK

ACPI power management and CPU throttling (with cpudyn) works easily. (had to google to find that I had to put "acpi=force" on the linux line in grub.conf) CHECK

Anyone who is new ( 6 months experience) to Linux: It doesn't work.

Re:Dell Inspiron 600m (1)

pdxdada (684092) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049643)

You just hit on my major beef with all of the laptops I've found with Linux Pre-installed. They all seem to be marketed to geeks and cost more (often a lot more) than laptops from other vendors, even the ones who claim they don't pay any MS tax. Granted my time isn't worth much at the moment, but I'd rather pay a few hundred dollars less and spend the hour or so to install Mandrake myself.

ACPI ... It's all about ACPI (4, Insightful)

burtonator (70115) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049280)

ACPI... Advanced Configuration and Power Interface

This is the biggest difficulty right now with Linux and laptops. I've had an Inspiron 8600 for months now and it still can't suspend (to memory or to disk).

If you want to get ACPI working correctly a kernel recompile is necessary and I'm sorry but users aren't going to do this.

Either we step forward and fix these issues or we can't expect users or vendors to take Linux seriously as a desktop operating system.

We're so close but 20% of the remaining functionality is 80% of the work.


Suspend is NOT an optional feature on a laptop...

Re:ACPI ... It's all about ACPI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049710)

But APM works, right? I've been using APM for years on various brands and models of laptops running Linux. it works great. No problems at all.

Wait A Minute (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049282)

The reviewer concludes that this a great purchase, as long as you are more selective over the distro installed.

Wouldn't this statement be true of almost any laptop?

Uh, did you say... (-1, Offtopic)

jcuervo (715139) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049284)

..."dead pixel"?

I am fscking SICK of getting laptops with dead pixels or otherwise bad displays. Pisses me off. :-(

Re:Uh, did you say... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049931)


I work for the RIAA. I'd be very happy to take care of your request:

I download movies and music. Come and get me. I dare you.

Just give us your full name and address, as well as the name of your ISP. Within four to six weeks you will receive a letter from our attorneys requiring you to return a form detailing which albums you have downloaded, which network you have gotten them from and whether you have shared them with other people (i.e. P2P). It then works out like this: if you just downloaded the music and not shared it with anyone else, you will be offered the chance to make payments regarding the music you have pirated, usually at the rate it is sold at iTunes. If you have shared the music in P2P networks, the formula becomes a bit more complex and I sincerely advise you to contact a lawyer who can negotiate an acceptable payment scheme, although the going rate is about 335 USD per track.

Should you prove reluctant to willingly give me your details I will be forced to contact the Cmdr Taco regarding this matter. I am certain he will be more than willing to furnish us with the IP addresses used to post from your account rather than be involved in a long drawn legal battle. Also, if you are not a citizen of this country, we shall contact local authorities in your country of residence as well as the local recording association so that steps can be taken. We are usually very lenient regarding exchange of music on the internet, but when someone blatantly admits to a crime on a public forum, it is my obligation to not let the subject pass.

Kind regards,

F R McAllister, Esq

I don't get it (5, Insightful)

Masa (74401) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049287)

This laptop should be "Linux certified" and even the review says: "Overall, this is a well-working, robust laptop, hardware-wise. My problems were all OS-related." So, what kind of a certification is this? I thought that the whole point on "certifying" something is same as promising that there are no hick-ups in the product - in hardware-wise or software-wise. Why would the company, who makes this kinds of promises, ship the hardware with the software which clearly doesn't support the hardware fully? They even admit that the computer isn't fully functional with Xandros Desktop 2.0.

I can see that in this case the "certification" is more of a promise that the machine will work with future versions of Linux distributions (which is stupid, because the says: "We make sure that all the core components, including the screen in its full resolution, sound etc., are correctly configured with Linux.", which at least for me, is a promise of fully functional OS shipped with the product).

Consumers in general aren't interested in future compatibility of products. They want fully functional product NOW. Without any hassle of installing newer version of the OS later.

In general, I like the idea that there will be companies who are willing to guarantee that the hardware will work with Linux. But I also want to see products that are usable without any additional tinkering.

Re:I don't get it (1)

wehe (135130) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049385)

Unfortunately all other so-called certifications for Linux laptops [] I know of, are not much better. At least currently.

Laptop quality (5, Insightful)

pekoe (623399) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049291)

Trying not to troll... My next computer will probably be a laptop, and it will be an iBook - maily because they're better made than other notebooks, rather than because I'm a Mac fan (I'm not, at least not yet). At the moment, the choice is a no-brainer. I can get a sub-1000 quid iBook these days that will do all that I want a wintel/*nix laptop for, but with very good quality hardware and *nix set-up with everything working. Compare that to spending the same cash on a less sturdy wintel item with an OS I dislike, or a less sturdy item with a reduced functionality for linux (simply because linux on a laptop is a pig to get working). I'm sure it can be done, but I just don't want to invest cash and then time as well getting it working. But rather than saying "Use OSX!" I'd say "take a lesson from Apple". Engineer a linux solution specifically for the hardware. Because trying to make it work with every distro is plainly not working, and that's not going to get me to part with my hard-earned wedge...

Re:Laptop quality (3, Informative)

4lex (648184) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049446)

You will notice (or at least I did) that getting an ibook working with linux is pretty easy. Reason? Unlikely with PCs, there are only so many ibook models, so it's very easy to find a HOWTO someone with your *exact* configuration kindly wrote. You can get, if you are lucky (like I was) even the .config for your shiny new 2.6.5 kernel :)

Re:Laptop quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049774)

Yeh, go OS X! You've got unix under the hood which is a beautiful thing. And the whole thing just works.


And that a damn good thing... (2, Funny)

Resound (673207) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049293)

...because the last thing you'd want is to hick your laptop up. I've now got disturbing mental images of an old Toshiba laptop up on blocks with a rattlecan paintjob.

Drink a glass of water upside down. (0, Offtopic)

richy freeway (623503) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049312)

It's hiccups, not hickups. ;)

Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (1)

Resound (673207) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049362)

Actually, it's "hiccoughs" for those of us who don't need to grotesquely simplify our language to remember what we're doing...

Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (1)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049499)

We prefer to use the brainpower on remembering things like brushing teeth.

Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049726)


Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (1)

Resound (673207) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049804)

Find it best to take life one thing at a time, huh?

Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (1)

brokenvoice (595329) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049368)

Hiccough is another spelling.

Just imagine... (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049334)

...a BeowulfCertified cluster of those!

Ahhhhhhhh (5, Insightful)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049364)

Why isn't there a Slashbox that lets me ignore all "reviews" written by Eugenia Loli-Queru. She's proved time and time again that she couldn't review herself out of a paper cup.

  • How well does the integrated graphics chip work?
  • Does the combo drive burn more than ISO images properly, you know those new fangled audio CDs and maybe a data backup disc? Does it read DVD-Rs properly and do DVD movies play without too much trouble?
  • If she is going to do a review of a piece of hardware it ought to be tested. If she can finagle a laptop out of someone she should be able to get a Firewire hard drive for testing purposes.
  • "Being a Centrino..." doesn't mean squat to me. What sort of work was she doing where the battery chugged along for 4.5 hours? Was that 4.5 hours of web browsing or 4.5 hours of Quake 3? How come the screen wasn't dim-able?

These are all questions that should have been answered, they certainly were hinted at. But no, show Eugenia some pretty pictures and she'll do a friggin backflip for you. This thing is hardly functional and she gave it seven points out of ten. In the configuration shipping to customers it won't go to sleep and the WiFi is shoddy and unreliable at best. How in the hell can something like that get seven points out of ten? Somebody got themselves a free toy laptop and gave the POS a good mark-up so the company will let her keep it. This article needs to be posted in the "How to Review Linux" story as a fine example of how not to write a review.

But,see, she's a chick! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049408)

And we all know that /. editors LOVE geekgirls! Remember Blackbird Alder? What did she do professionally that 1,000s of guygeeks can't, and better? Nothing. But she's a...well...she. A geekgirl stereotype, right out of Hollywood's 'People in Computers' 101 course: hard as nails, cool as ice, big boots, black clothes.

Oh, and being the object of one /. editor in particular certainly helped to keep her "news" item on the /. front page for a record length of time.

So that's all there is to it: be a chick computer reviewer (or chick computer anything), and you're guaranteed a primo spot on 'Slashdot; News for Editors who really wish they could get a girlfriend'...

Oh, and watch us both get modded down to (Score:-1, Troll, Flamebait, Meanie) really, really fast!

Re:But,see, she's a chick! (0)

CdBee (742846) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049469)

If she's so poor at what she does, ask why her personal tech site is one of the few sites outside of Slashdot that can cause the Slashdot effect (web servers melting into pools of liquid metal and trickling under the door of the server room), and why its discussions frequently outclass /.'s for informative/interesting/insightful comments despite being a tenth of the size?

Re:But,see, she's a chick! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049625)

the post you are replying to is flamebaitish trolling but I actually think the poster stated that she is not worse than anybody else in particular, she's just no better, and didn't deserve all the slavering praise she got. I followed the thread the troll is referring to, and I have to admit there's a valid point being made here. Raven is good at what she does, but so are many others, but you never would have guessed that from the article, which made out as if she invented computer security. It was all, "Hey, wow, this chick is kind of hot, and she looks just like a character from the Lone Gunmen, so she must be 133t!"
And did the fact that the company she was employed by has servers which can withstand a Slashdotting really indicate that Raven was some kind of h4x0r genius? I'm certain she's good at her job, but let's not assume too much. It just gives food to the trolls.

This is why geeks are starting to use Powerbooks (5, Informative)

ehack (115197) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049370)

Linux vendors need to understand that they are not selling the possibility that you can recompile and fix an issue, they are selling the fact that THEY have recompiled and fixed the issue for you.

Geeks are using a lot of Powerbooks because the hardware is supported seamlessly for sleep, DVD play etc: Apple has recompiled bsd for you :)

Fuck OSNews (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049402)

This fucking bullshit can't go on! Eugenia Loli is behind all of this relentless whoring of her shit website. I'm sick and tired of the Slashdot editors promoting her. The question is how many cybersex favors she's done for Taco and the rest of the sexless editors in exchange for this free advertising. In an effort to expose this cunt's aliases I list her known ones below:
  1. Gentu
  2. JigSaw
  3. Reader
  4. 'It's me'
Feel free to add any more suspected Eugenia Loli pseudonyms you find.

Anyone tried Debian on this notebook? (0, Troll)

Debian Troll's Best (678194) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049416)

While it is encouraging to see Linux certified hardware like the LC2210 laptop being sold, judging from the OSNews review it isn't all that much more Linux-compatible than a run of the mill Dell, IBM or Toshiba. To really lure new users across from the x86 or Macintosh worlds, a 'Linux certified' notebook needs to offer up a flawless experience. The notebook needs to wake instantly from sleep, 100% of the time. Wireless LAN needs to auto-detect nearby access points and automatically connect to them as required. And of course, video, sound, USB and FireWire all need to function without a new user ever having to edit, let alone be aware of the numerous /etc configuration files and kernel paramters necessary for these subsystems to work. I said before, it's a good sign that companies are starting to make the effort to differentiate their notebook offerings on the basis of explicit Linux support, even if there is a little work that needs to be done yet. I am certainly interested in ordering one of these machines, as my old Dell Inspiron with a 500MHz Pentium III CPU running GNU/Debian Linux is certainly starting to show its age. I would still have a few questions about the LC2210's Debian compatibility though. Not mentioned in the review is the notebook's compatibility with apt-get, for instance. Do people think that I would be able to use apt-get without running into typical issues like robust ACPI support? Does anyone know what graphics chip this thing is using, and if so, would it work without screen corruption when using heavily GUI-oriented apps like dselect?

I look forward to the community's response!!

redhat review (2, Informative)

next1 (742094) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049459)

cooincidentally i was reading another review [] (from their site) of the same laptop recently, but this one is with redhat. interesting comparisson.

personally i am actually interested in these LC laptops because for me (in australia) they are so cheap. anyone with personal experience of shipping/delivery costs/times overseas, problems etc, would be appreciated.

Wi-Fi? (1)

imidazole2 (776413) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049509)

They act as if this laptop is any worse than any other when it comes to Wi-Fi. It's just the way Linux is... Wireless is such a PITA in Linux - missing simple features such as the ability to scan for SSID's that are broadcasting.

Why Linux Hardware Sucks. (2, Interesting)

CherniyVolk (513591) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049676)


I've looked high and low for computers, available to John Doe-home-consumer, that had Linux preinstalled. Oh, they exist, there are places where you can buy laptops with Linux preinstalled. But, look at them, either they are from companies that refuse to sell home systems with Linux preinstalled like IBM or Dell, or they are a generic non-branded factory laptop sold by seemingly an upstart.

The later is no biggy, truthfully we have to start from some where, and frankly many of the IBM/Dell lines are rebranded components. No secret, ever take apart your cheapo radio (Emerson) to find the speakers are Pioneer and the electronics by JVC?

In any case, the available solutions are rather pathetic. For example, I have been unable to find a laptop that boasts a 1600x1200 LCD, preinstalled with Linux. Unless we happen upon a Dell from a service that will sell you a refurb, but that's totally different; at some point, Microsoft still made a dollar on that machine. So, some of the readers don't value the LCD resolution as much as I do, but other components are pretty sore as well. Compare hardware specs to a new Dell/Apple to one of those generic no-brands. Pretty pathetic, and the cost of pre-installed Linux laptops are extrodinary; even when the laptop is a re-sold item.

VALinux, IBM both have tried to sell laptops to the consumer market with Linux preinstalled. Or, atleast I thought IBM offered the T22 with Linux, I'm not 100% sure. The T22 wasn't all that great a machine to me, now and then. As for VALinux, they sold a laptop, that was several hundreds of dollars more expensive than a comparable one with hundreds of dollars in pre-installed software, Microsoft software.

So, now, we have the Walmart line of desktops with Linux pre-installed. I wouldn't buy one. My god, the hardware is a joke. For some reason, it seems, companies think that just becuase the OS is free that those who use Linux opt for the cheapest quality and lowest line of hardware. No! I don't want a Celeron, or Centrino(whatever) CPU. I want the same hardware, middle line on up, that is found in the rest of the market, only with Linux preinstalled and the price reflecting it.

I can only assume, Microsoft is behind it making it more expensive to avoid giving them money than to just pay up. Which, I think should be illegal but apparently it's not.


Re:Why Linux Hardware Sucks. (1)

Dogers (446369) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049922)

It seems the only real route at present is linux compatability lists [] , coupled with Windows Refunds []

Its a shame, but it seems the big manufacturers just dont see the market for linux laptops.

Plus only recently has it been decreed that MS can no longer hold things back from manufacturers who ship bare systems.

100% Certified (1)

PimpbotChris (775813) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049810)

to work with Linux, unless you use the wrong distro, or the wrong version, or use unsupported peripherals or...

buttons on desktop don't work? (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049813)

--if I had just bought a *brand new* expensive laptop (well, to me anything brand new is expensive, heh) and the buttons on the desktop didn't work I'd be seriously annoyed. I know if I was SELLING them I just wouldn't do it, would keep tweaking until they did. "The internet" is sorta the most important default application stuff that should "just work" when you get any new machine for most people and uses. And what's the issue with WiFi anyway, the companies who make these things are jerks when it comes to drivers for linux? If so seems like a nifty way for some unemployed geeks to collaborate on a product out there, a wireless card that runs on all OSes of note, built from scratch from the ground up. Proly take some VC to build it, but a real product has merit when shopping for money.

IS there a good battery life, runs all linux and runs it well, direct from the factory laptop out there now? I don't follow that too closely to know. I do recall reading here a few times about the transmeta chips, wonder if a laptop built around them would be better as a true mobile device. That and bring back dual hot swappable batteries built-in.

may I be the first to say (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9049827)

if u cant get gentoo instald on ur laptop u r a retard n00b!!!! stick to winblows fagot!!!!

Yellow Dog and PowerPC (1)

stecoop (759508) | more than 10 years ago | (#9049933)

Has anyone tried running Yellow Dog Linux [] on a PowerBook?

I would be interested in hearing the performance and ease of use. I am particularly interested in the performance of the PowerPC chip and the integration of the hardware with the OS. In fact I would be interested in purchasing a Mac and wiping the OSX to run native Linux - can someone enlighten me on OSX; is it like running Cygwin [] on a PC?

The main reason towards my shift on the MAC hardware [] is the PowerPC chip, the keyboard lights discussed recently [] , Titanium/Magnesium Frame & shell, FireWire 800, the list goes on. What does other Slashdoters recommend on running Linux on a PowerPC architecture?
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