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Bloggers Assail Movable Type's New Pricing Scheme

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the slash-still-free dept.

Software 391

cioxx writes "An immensely popular weblog publishing tool, Movable Type, has announced a new pricing model based on "support level, number of authors permitted, and the number of weblogs permitted per license". MT3D (Developer Edition) for non-commercial users has drifted away from its full-featured, free predecessor and managed to upset many blog authors whose entry summaries can be seen via the trackback feature originating from the initial MT3D announcement. Is this a case of bait-n-switch, or simply a company trying to capitalize on its dominant market share? WordPress (GPL), which is an equally powerful CMS, seems like a perfect candidate for those who are considering a switch to a non-crippled, free alternative."

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This makes me cry (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151238)

http://www.cookiethievery.com/old/041904/

copy and paste that, thats how they came up with the new pricing scheme

OMFG! DOLPHIN BESTIALITY MOVIE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151367)

Be forewarned. It's a disturbing dolphin blowjob movie!

Good example of why open source != free (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151249)

I've been hit by this kind of thing before. Now I really look hard at the license. If you use proprietary stuff, you are at the mercy of the owner. It's not just a Microsoft thing, folks.

I got hit with it too (5, Funny)

Hanna's Goblin Toys (635700) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151338)

I bought a Honda Accord in 1994, and when I bought a new one in 2004, they raised the price by almost eight thousand dollars!

It seems like with anything you buy today, you're at the mercy of the people working to make the product and sell it.

Re:I got hit with it too (4, Insightful)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151588)

With a car, it's easy to switch to a different brand. There's not much new to learn; if you can drive one car, you can drive another. And if you can drive a stick, you can drive damn near anything on the road. Maybe not to the best of the car's abilities, but you can still get from point A to point B.

With software, it's generally much more difficult to switch vendors. System requirements and means of configuration, not to mention configuration options, are often vastly different.

Granted, proficiency with the underlying principles (Component functions in a car, protocols in software) go a long way in easing change. However, while many people aren't familiar with cars beyond filling the tank and checking the oil, most people aren't familiar with the workings of databases and HTTP.

Re:Good example of why open source != free (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151390)

mmmmmmm Free beer..... GULP GULP GULP.. mmm MORE free beer GULP GULP GULP... (footstep) (footstep) (footstep) "HEY! stop blocking the bathroom door man, i gotta pee... What do you mean its $25 to use the bathroom!!! This is an OUTRAGE!!!"

Please oh please oh please (3, Funny)

SpiffyMarc (590301) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151256)

Retroactively revoke all of their licenses... and somehow sue Google and get them to shut down Blogger.com... and and... then maybe I'll be able to locate actual information when searching the Internet for stuff.

Re:Please oh please oh please (3, Funny)

gkuz (706134) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151296)

Couldn't agree more that if this leads to fewer blogs, it's a Good Thing. They should raise the price even more.

Re:Please oh please oh please (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151386)

Couldn't agree more that if this leads to fewer blogs, it's a Good Thing. They should raise the price even more.

But how will I be able to get through the day without Jerry B. Smith's Blog entries? Today he got up and found his cat had vomitted on the floor in the middle of the night. HILARIOUS! You can't pay for writing that good. A few days ago he described how he had to take his car in for an oil change and it took 15 minutes instead of the more industry standard 10 minute quick change because they were jerking him around. Damn quick change places.

Ouch. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151259)

Well, that sucks. At least I have a few of their old (i.e. free) versions on my hard drive.

Pass the crack (3, Interesting)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151265)

Gotta love the proprietary world. Dole the juice, cajole the users and then when some event horizon is met, flip the tables and stick it to your users. Yeh haw I love it.

Re:Pass the crack (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151376)

Now you're on the trolley!

Re:Pass the crack (4, Informative)

levell (538346) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151378)

Not only do they still have a free version but also, no-one is forced to upgrade. It seems people aren't interested in whether it's free as in speech but when it's free as in beer, changes in the pricing structure bring bitter recriminations.

Re:Pass the crack (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151497)

The real problem people have is that the changes seem to be trending towards more and more limited use. Around here, it's often attributed to greed, but on the other hand, it could be corporate necessity.

Certainly, you've heard of companies announcing the removal of a product or service because they "just couldn't afford to provide it anymore."

For the record, I'll take a Debian Linux box over Windows XP any day. But that's primarily because I've found Debian's flexibility to far exceed that of any Windows system I've used. (And I still use Windows a lot, though not at home.)

Stop spitting all over yourself... (1)

Giant Panda (779279) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151602)

Gotta love the proprietary world. Dole the juice, cajole the users and then when some event horizon is met, flip the tables and stick it to your users. Yeh haw I love it.

Amazingly enough, some people start companies to make money. A shocking concept, I know, but it's true. Now, when you start using a commercial product by a commercial company that presumably is in business to make money, why on Earth would - should - it surprise you when down the line they re-evaluate and change their pricing schedule? Bleat on and on and on about "proprietary" software and such if you must, if that's your ideological axe to grind. But when you use a commercial product, this is to be expected, and no one, not even Movable Type, is "bad" and "evil" for it, it's the rules commercial software plays by.

Now then: Why in the fuck would you use MovableType anyway? Commercial or not, it's crap. There are dozens of solid blogware out there. Slashcode, anyone? GeekLog, all the *nukes? And broaden your horizon to general purpose CMS, there's Mambo, Typo3, many many more...

Dude...you're just going to get mod'ed down.. (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151694)

Logic fails when people want something for free. Not only are the blogs worthless boring drivel, but the people spewing obivously knw it because they aren't willing to pay to have their thoughts read by the internet!

RMS talks about free speech........ (5, Insightful)

MrIrwin (761231) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151273)

....but what everybody is really interested in is free beer!

Re:RMS talks about free speech........ (2, Informative)

sssk (638460) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151476)

iirc .. MT3D isn't exactly free software

Re:RMS talks about free speech........ (1)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151645)

Looks like you can get a free beer version, but it's cut down.

Re:RMS talks about free speech........ (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151528)

I disagree. I think everyone really wants free as in speech, but thinks free as in beer is the same thing. Real world objects don't come with complex licenses. We've grown up in a world where both "free"s are the same, so few people really understand how and why software is different. I still don't understand why it's different or at least why we accept it that way.

old version link (3, Interesting)

rayde (738949) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151277)

note that download.com still has version 2.661 [com.com] ... this might be the version people should start mirroring.

Re:old version link (2, Informative)

rayde (738949) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151414)

strike that... i forgot that download.com just points the the publisher's download link for most files.

How dare they! (5, Insightful)

Psiren (6145) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151281)

WordPress (GPL), which is an equally powerful CMS, seems like a perfect candidate for those who are considering a switch to a non-crippled, free alternative.

Presumably you believe it's crippled because you have to pay for it, which I have to say I find a poor argument. Pay for the stuff if you think it's worth the money, use something else if you don't. It's not a hard choice.

Re:How dare they! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151433)

An interesting assumption, that the author is being redundant to make a point. Perhaps you should read it as saying that wordpress is free (beer) and, further, doesn't suck. IIOW, it's free Guinness and not free Busch lite.

Re:How dare they! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151460)

How dare you put down the official beer of NASCAR!!!

maybe (2)

pb (1020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151468)

He thinks it's 'crippled' because of the new restrictions involved (and by implication, that it isn't worth the money); that seems like a perfectly good use of the term. Especially since the restrictions are artificial in nature.

I can certainly see people being upset by what looks like a classic bait-and-switch, exploiting the goodwill of the community for personal gain. Like so many other sites who have tried this (and failed), it requires its biggest fans, supporters, and users to pay the largest price, so the alienation and sense of betrayal is not surprising.

Re:How dare they! (2, Interesting)

scrm (185355) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151500)

No, it's crippled because (from the site [sixapart.com] ):

# No promotion of your weblogs through the Recently Updated list

# No commercial usage

# No more than one author and three weblogs

AFAIK these were part of the old MT package before this pricing scheme was launched. Hence, crippled.

Re:How dare they! (2, Insightful)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151623)

Presumably you believe it's crippled because you have to pay for it, which I have to say I find a poor argument.

Not necessarily.

Product A (commercial) is non-crippled, and non-free.
Product B (shareware) is crippled, and free (gratis).
Product C (GPL) is non-crippled, and free (both ways).

Product C is hence a non-crippled, free alternative to A. Non-crippled is not redundant, as there are other free alternatives to product A which are crippled: C's advantage over them is that it is non-crippled and free.

Just Switched (5, Interesting)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151289)

I just switched from Movable Type to Text Pattern [textpattern.com] and I couldn't be happier. It's more CMS like AND easier to use (granted MT was easy to use but Txp feels much smoother). It makes a good separation of content and display and has a few goodies that make this feel natural. It's got a few minor bugs that'll be fixed before release; but it's worked great for my blog [andrewvc.com] .

Oh, and it imports movable type files. Seriously, with the wide variety of free, quality, blogging software out there, Six Apart has their work cut out for them.

Re:Just Switched (2, Interesting)

JLyle (267134) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151508)

I am not seriously into blogging, but so far I've been using Blogger [blogger.com] 's free service to edit Blog posts on-line and then publish them to my free web storage at my ISP. This works well for me because I have limited storage space (about 10 Mb) at my ISP and I'm not able to upload software to run on their server. I could of course pay some other business for web site hosting, but hey, this is still just a hobby for me at this point.

So my question for the Slashdot community is, do any of these free and open source blogging packages (like WordPress) let you edit posts, etc. on your PC and then publish the (static) pages to a remote web site? I understand that this isn't the ideal setup, that one would prefer that the blogging system would be running on the web site, but that's not really an option for me.

Re:Just Switched (1)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151554)

Drop me an email to mattl at gnu dot org and I'll give some better webspace and a better blog.

Re:Just Switched (2, Insightful)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151523)

I wrote my own software... This is slashdot... surely a good chunk of the people here can do the same.

Re:Just Switched (2, Interesting)

rtmyers (414559) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151579)

Textpattern is a good blogging system and I have several blogs running on it including my own [myers.name] . There's a problem, though; it's a one-man development team, with a spotty track record for new versions and support. If I were choosing blogging software today, I'd have to go with something with more momentum.

Good! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151292)

Maybe now we won't have to put up with their whiny blogs. Google has been destroyed because of their tripe. Fuck trackback and fuck all of you cockgobbling emos!

Charge for Software? Quel Horreur! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151295)

Come on you ninnies! Software, data, music, movies - THEY SHOULD ALL BE FREE!

How dare this company charge money to recoup what they spent on developing this product. Why, if every company did that, it would be anarchy!

Er, no no... OLIGARCHY!

Um, no wait, PLUTOCRACY!

No, got it... it would be CAPITALISM, savior of the common man and the greatest force for freedom ever known.

Now, let the whining begin!

Re:Charge for Software? Quel Horreur! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151397)


Come on you ninnies!


Ah!... For a second there I thought you were talking about Ninnle Linux. The best damn distro available.

Not Bait-n-Switch (3, Insightful)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151297)

Now I'm admittedly unfamiliar with MovableType, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't recall anything saying that their blogging services was going to be free indefinitely.

Given MobableType's popularity, this really shouldn't come as a surprise. The more people they have using their service, the more it costs to maintain a quality level of service. That's the price they pay to give blog space to anyone who wants it.

So as with any business in a capitalist society, if you don't want to go along with this pricing plan, do as the submitter suggests and go to another service.

Re:Not Bait-n-Switch (3, Informative)

melankolik (628368) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151427)

The more people they have using their service, the more it costs to maintain a quality level of service.
Movable Type is a product, not a service. Scalability doesn't come into play here, unless you want to count bandwidth for downloading the source. It doesn't cost them anything extra (again, except bandwidth) to provide something which they have already developed to 10,000 people rather than 100 people.

mod down (2, Informative)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151619)



This poster makes incorrect assumptions based on total lack of knowledge of the topic.

MoveableType is not a service. It's a piece of software like OpenOffice or Slackware. There is no 'price to pay to give blog space to anyone who wants it.'

Re:Not Bait-n-Switch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151628)

if you don't want to go along with this pricing plan, do as the submitter suggests and go to another service.

Oh, but no, that wouldn't take care of their RIGHTS which have been VIOLATED.

Harsh! (4, Interesting)

levell (538346) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151302)

While I use Wordpress for both my blogs, I think that everyone is being rather harsh on these people who are just trying to make a living.

better business model (0)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151663)

While I use Wordpress for both my blogs, I think that everyone is being rather harsh on these people who are just trying to make a living.

I agree, but it's really time the bloggers picked a better business model than:

1.Write journal entries
2.Post them online and call it a "blog", or if you're cutting edge, post pictures too
3.Include system to show when other people link back to you saying "look at this dork" 4.????
5.Profit!

Oh, you mean the blog software companies? My bad.

No big deal -- stick with version 2 (4, Informative)

crashnbur (127738) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151310)

You can upgrade to as high as version 2.66.1, and the new pricing scheme won't affect your Movable Type site. That's what we're doing at Polstate.com [polstate.com] .

By the way, shameless plug:

Polstate.com is the Political State Report [polstate.com] , a web site held together by contributors from each state (US) who report on grassroots and statewide political news, especially when relevant to local and state elections. We offer a different flavor of political news, distinct from most other blogs and news sites that focus on the Presidency, war on terror, and national economy.

Re:No big deal -- stick with version 2 (1)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151384)

Hell, im impressed, a actual full GOOD use of blogging. Mine atm is for me to keep a track of wtf happens in my life generally, and for my parents when they need me to find me (being the reason i only update it once a week ^_^ ). n1

Re:No big deal -- stick with version 2 (1)

CaptainBaz (621098) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151550)

Great. But what happens when an exploit is found for 2.661?

Will sixapart issue a version 2.662?

Or will they advise people to upgrade to 3.0?

And yes, the link in my .sig is an MT blog - for now...

Not surprise (2, Informative)

AMG (110468) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151312)

The november 2003 issue of Business 2.0 [business2.com] showed an intention to go in that direction, even the MT license debate [movableblog.com] gave clues a long before. It shouldnt be a bad surprise for anyone, but a great loss to the blog comunity.

Re:Not surprise (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151567)

Why is it a loss? You love the product and enjoyed using it so PAY A LITTLE FOR IT.

Is it possible that one Linux user isn't a cheap fuck and will pay for applications they use? Or do we need to lose more paying jobs to make software free...

Blogging sucks anyway. (2, Flamebait)

i_am_pi (570652) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151319)

"OMG, my free blog software changed, i have to pay for it now"

"i'm poor and can't afford it, if you read the past entries of my blog, which are all bitching about how i'm poor and can't afford anything"

"i'm going to bitch about MT changing to a non-free system on my blog."

Really, who cares? There's some blogs out there that are worth reading (pervscan, MSDN Blogs), but 99% of the users of Movable Type are retards. Charging for MT is keeping the shit off of the web.

Re:Blogging sucks anyway. (1)

elwell642 (754833) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151436)

Charging for MT is keeping the shit off of the web.

There's not a price on earth that could stop that.

Re:Blogging sucks anyway. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151617)

Please! How does charging for MT keep shit off the web. installing MT is not THAT easy. Most beginners goto Blogger, livejournal, etc... I'm you want to cut the fat, charge for those.

Well shoot (1)

Torinaga-Sama (189890) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151347)

I guess I am gonna have to work out that user registration system that I always wanted but was too lazy to code. I was waiting for 3 to come out so I could have it up and running and have it not cut into my UT2k4 time.

Oh well.

Oh really now (4, Informative)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151352)

Or, we could all just RTFSite, which apparently our dear submitter didn't do, and see that they clearly state that they will still offer a free version. I read the news yesterday (since I've been waiting for the 3.0 release to install it) and was slightly disturbed by the "pricing scheme", but I actually read the whole thing, and it does state that they will still offer a free version (the google cache hasn't been updated since the new stuff has been posted, so it's pretty pointless to check it out).

Re:Oh really now (5, Informative)

Eezy Bordone (645987) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151514)

There is a v3 free version for a single author/single blog, this is crippled from their current free version. My current setup wouldn't be able to use the v3 free version, I have two blogs (one is a sub-blog for book reviews) and host two blogs for friends, so have a total of 3 authors. The free version doesn't officially support this. If the Trott's are *wink-wink-nudge-nudging* that people with my type of setup can still run their free software they shouldn't have written their license to specifically forbid it.

That said, it's obvious to anyone with a pair of brain celss that this pricing structure is to make their Typepad service [typepad.com] more attractive for casual bloggers and non-techies. If you you're willing to get your elbows dirty you can run a blog on your own machine from home with the free version.

"Mena's Corner" Flooded With Complaints (3, Informative)

hbo (62590) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151365)

The post containing the rationale [sixapart.com] for the licensing change contains hundreds of trackbacks from the MT community. Guess what most of them are saying.

I use Coranto (2, Informative)

PrimeWaveZ (513534) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151387)

Because I love Perl and I don't much care for PHP/SQL. Check out Coranto here. [gweilo.org] It's more of a news system (the successor to NewsPro) but it works quite well for my website, destination-life.com

Re:I use Coranto (1)

y0bhgu0d (168149) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151624)

MT is written in Perl.

Re:I use Coranto (1)

MurrayTodd (92102) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151683)

Um... MovableType IS Perl based, not PHP/SQL as you suggest. It uses a method of generating static pages from the database content + formatting templates. The nice consequence is that your blog readers aren't running a zillion CGI scripts all the time, they're just getting served up nice clean static material.

It's also nice because one can conceivably add dynamic code content (JSP, PHP, SSI) to the generated code and mix 'n match any dynamic web technology with their MovableType system.

From their website (4, Insightful)

lazuli42 (219080) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151388)

Reprinted from their website:

Not willing to pay for Movable Type yet? This fully-functional version of the application is available free of charge. Important limitations of this license include:

* No support from Six Apart
* No access to paid installation service
* No access to fee-based services
* No promotion of your weblogs through the Recently Updated list
* No commercial usage
* No more than one author and three weblogs


So let me interpret these points...

* No mooching.
* No mooching.
* No mooching.
* No commercial use.
* Limited (yet otherwise fully functional) personal use.

Why is this so bad? I've paid a lot more than $70 for software that I've really liked. This is pretty cheap.

Corinna

Re:From their website (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151670)

i think its the no more than 1 author part thats the real problem.

id switch to wordpress or others, but they are not as fully developed or as powerful as movable type yet not matter what the submitter of the original piece may say.

i understand six apart charging for commercial licenses, leveraging their front runner status that they get from the non-commercial free community. but if they lock out that community they will lose that front runner status and lose the ability to charge anyone but a small sliver of bloggers for their product.

what makes blogging revolutionary and innovative is the way it empowers individuals everywhere to self-publish. if you have to pay a steep entry fee that just isnt going to work out for the vast majority of bloggers.

movable type is a good product, and id rather they continued the old license as their way of getting paid.

It's still free, it's not crippled (3, Informative)

BenHmm (90784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151393)

There's no bait or switch going on here at all. There is still a free version available [sixapart.com] , it's not crippled [metafilter.com] in any way:

There is a free version of Movable Type, available on our site, which like all versions of Movable Type consists of the exact same code. There's no crippleware, no nagware. We trust you. We never said this is the last free version of Movable Type.

The only thing this does is a) allow SixApart to eat, and b) allow large corporations to buy MT. I know plenty of organisations that want to use it, but couldn't even look at it until it cost more than nothing. Many procurement processes can't deal with Free.

From backroom hobby to multinational company in three years: Good for them, frankly.

Re:It's still free, it's not crippled (3, Informative)

GeorgeH (5469) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151641)

When you say "not crippled in any way" you mean that limiting it to 1 author and 3 blogs is an improvement over the current unlimited authors, unlimited blogs restrictions?

I don't have anything against SA trying to make a living, but they priced me out of the market. I run 3 or 4 blogs with around 10 - 15 users, I earn $0.00 on them and am expected to pay $600 to upgrade to a new version that only offers one new feature (comment management).

Like I said on my site, if they had offered me something that would meet my needs for $40 - $50 I would probably pay up. Instead I'm going to stick with 2.6.

Re:It's still free, it's not crippled (1)

peripatetic_bum (211859) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151691)

From backroom hobby to multinational company in three years: Good for them, frankly.


Exactly.

At some point, no one likes to work for free and from what I can tell these have spent serious amounts of time doing Work, the kind of Work where you cant decide to take a break and play foozball.

Those days are over and they didnt work.

Like any one, no one likes to work for free.

From reading the complaits, I understand that there are some limits that may seem a bit tight and expensive, but let's face it this is luxury item. If you really wanted to keep bloggin, you would find anyway, even hand-texting the html. Ie they are not restricting your free speech right which I think a lot of people seem to be implying.

The bottom line is they worked hard, and DESERVE (yes, it is ok to be paid for what you do) to be PAID.

Thanks for reading.

Would like to hear your comments

Re:It's still free, it's not crippled (1)

GeorgeH (5469) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151717)

I forgot to address this in my other comment, but you've been more than welcome to pay for Movable Type 2. In fact I believe commercial entities were required to pay $150. http://www.vnunet.com/Products/Software/1140884 [vnunet.com] references this, but I can't find it on MovableType.org because the site is tad sluggish. If people weren't using MT in their companies because it was free they should have read the fine print a little better.

gentler learning curve (2, Informative)

jbellis (142590) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151406)

bloxsom [blosxom.com] and pybloxsom [subtlehints.net] (a port of the original Perl) offer an elegant plugin-based architecture with a gentle learning curve if you want to set up your own blog. And because so little is hardcoded into the app itself, you can leverage it to do all sorts of non-traditional sites; I wrote a plugin to enable a webcomic in a few hours.

Boo to MovableType (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151407)

I've used it for 100 posts with their last and now I'm going to be switching to another content management system.

Freedom of the press and all that.

Cheers! It's time for Guinness.

Yeah, Income Sucks (5, Insightful)

Dawang (611122) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151408)

I hate getting paid for work I do.

I especially don't ever want to continue to give away a free version, but charge people who are using it in a business environment. That would suck even more if people who are using my software to make money themselves.

PEOPLE! You can still use MT for free with one or two authors, personal blog, etc. If you're using it for more industrial stuff, then don't expect it to be free forever, especially since you GET SUPPORT FROM THE DEVELOPER.

I'm not talking about the typical "RTFM, l0s3r" support you get from certain GPL apps, I'm talking about actually ask-a-question-get-a-polite-and-helpful-answer kind of support.

Just because they need to make money (who doesn't?), doesn't mean you should dump them completely.

Preaching to the choir. (3, Informative)

pb (1020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151420)

For the K5 members out there, there are more details here [kuro5hin.org] --apparently the licensing structure is considered a bit outlandish (for what used to be a free product), perhaps to push their (cheaper) blog webhosting services. But for those outside the "Blogosphere", this will only lead to momentary head-scratching [kuro5hin.org] , as to what these crazy kids are talking about now.

Personally, I've been spoiled by /. and K5--I can't stand discussion forums that don't at least have nested comments and a few other basic refinements, and it's even better if they have sane implementations (that don't involve doing O(n) SQL queries recursively to build the list of comments, for example)

MT Free License (0, Redundant)

cirby (2599) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151422)

Movable Type Free
(Unsupported License)
Not willing to pay for Movable Type yet? This fully-functional version of the application is available free of charge. Important limitations of this license include:
No support from Six Apart
No access to paid installation service
No access to fee-based services
No promotion of your weblogs through the Recently Updated list
No commercial usage
No more than one author and three weblogs

In other words, pretty much the same "free" usage as before. If you need MT for multiple authors, it's not expensive.

If you need MT for commercial use, it's only a couple of hundred bucks.

UBlog (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151443)

I use UBlog [www.ubn.ru] , from UBN. It's lightweight and made especially for geeks who are kind of put off by the typical blog cruft. Comments are even disabled by default, which I like. And! It's open-source, and available in PHP AND Perl.

MOD PARENT UP, ublog is awesome (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151627)

I use it not only for my site, but my mother's site.

MT 2.661 still available for free on the website (1)

cpc (656151) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151455)

Download it from http://www.movabletype.org/download.shtml [movabletype.org]

License is: PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE LICENSE Revised 6/01/2003

All idiots (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151456)

The depth of stupiditiy of the oss/gnu crowd never ceases to amaze me.

Cry when somebody charges for THEIR hard work.
Cry when you nobody will pay for YOURS.

You can't have it both ways. Either software is free and we all push lawnmowers or sofware is not free and we can work writing code. Your actions will decide.

Ask yourself why VC's are funding so few companies. Is it because they can no longer get their money back from software sales?

Ask yourself why so few companies are hiring. Is it because they can get your "donations" for free?

Companies are not as stupid as this community. Companies commoditized the support services we are supposed to "sell" with the free software. We eliminated the coding jobs and companies shipped the crappy support jobs to Rangoon.

Now we're left with no crappy support jobs and no good programming jobs either. Thanks Richard!

Free as in freedom really means freedom from getting paid for your skills.

Re:All idiots (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151565)

Amen to that. The open source crowd are advocating what is really modern-day slavery. White slavery... forcing people to work and give up all their hard earned product for no wages.

Re:All idiots (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151713)

One more f***ing time ... free software != open source software ... is that so hard to fathom? You are talking about free software, something neither the OSS nor GNU crowd expounds.

Moveable Type is so cliche (2, Insightful)

donnyspi (701349) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151458)

and overrated anyway. Everyone's freakin blogs look the same with MT. Boring. It's like what Powerpoint has done to the art of giving a presentation.

Re:Moveable Type is so cliche (2, Funny)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151711)

W h a t ' s - t h a t - y o u - s a y ?

I thought everyone l o v e d super-wide fonts

and double-spaced lines. MovableType lets me

bring a truly r e a d a b l e blog to the

blogosphere.

Comments (0) [google.com]

Another alternative (3, Informative)

Apro+im (241275) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151459)

Livejournal.org [livejournal.org] hosts the codebase (GPL'd) used on Livejournal.com [livejournal.com] and other clone sites.

iBlog (2, Informative)

Raven42rac (448205) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151462)

I use a Mac and have had no problems with iBlog, from Lifli software. The price fluctuates based on your currency and it's relationship to the Indian Rupee. I paid close to $20 for it. You can install it on up to two seats for that price. It integrates extremely well with .Mac hosted sites too. Read all about it. [lifli.com] You can even hack the css and such with your editor of choice.

Re:iBlog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151487)

wow, a Mac product beginning with the letter "i". What an iSuprise!

Pity. (1)

El_Smack (267329) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151482)

It would be a shame if this raised the entry barrier for blogers so high that angsty teens, burnouts and uninteresting 30-somethings couldn't post about every little thing that happens to them.

Good Place To Search For Alternatives (3, Informative)

m_evanchik (398143) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151484)

<rant>

http://www.opensourcecms.com/ is a good site to search for alternative weblogs. The nice thing is that they have working demos up that you can access to try out stuff.

The reviews are pretty generic and not much help.

Does anyone know of a good source for reviews on CMS systems?

I also have to question the stats on the link stating moveable type is the most popular weblog. Some prominent blogging software is not counted, such as geeklog, scoop, and (ahem) slashdot.

It's not entirely fair to lambaste moveabletype, they are still offering a non-commercial version of limited capability.

A few weeks ago, when I was evaluating CMS systems, I came across moveable-type, and their lack of a free license is what turned me off. The system that most impressed me was PHPNuke.

My biggest complaint about most of these CMS's are the big holes in documentation.

</rant>

Re:Good Place To Search For Alternatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151631)

One thing people continue to get wrong.

This is not a CMS. It's a content tracking system. You're already managing the content from the program which writes the content to the log file. Analyzing the data is tracking it.

Any major CMS vendor will tell you this.

Geeklog (2, Informative)

broller (74249) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151492)

I was a Movable Type user, but with my latest ISP change I ditched MT for Geeklog [geeklog.net] . Geeklog is really cool, and nicely integrates with Gallery [menalto.com] which I use for images. Both are Open Source and free, so the decision was easy.

Why your Movable Type blog must die (3, Informative)

heyitsme (472683) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151509)

A great article over at the other site:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/2/171117/88 23

Fewer bloggers? Please? Please? (-1, Troll)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151511)

Aside from super-low-priced cellphone cameras that suddenly explode while uploading images, I can't think of a better way to cut down on the number of bloggers in the world.

To toot my own horn a bit.. (1)

Improv (2467) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151551)

If you like the idea of a mod_perl/Postgres-based BLOG, check out http://blog.dachte.org [dachte.org] , and if you like what you see, drop me a note and we'll get it installed on your system. I'll start to regularly make public packages soon..

So? (1)

kitzilla (266382) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151556)

MT is a good product. These folks develop for a living. They're under no more obligation to provide free services than we are to purchase their commercial software.

The "fix" is to stay with what you have if you don't like the new pricing schedule.

Money is dear to me, but I'll probably pony up. The enhancements seem worth the price tag. But if I decide differently, there are plenty of other blog engines out there.

Comparing Six Apart to Microsoft is grossly unfair. These folks care about their work and have always provided excellent service. Power to 'em.

My MT weblog: PaperFrog.com [paperfrog.com] .

They gotta pay... (1)

TiMike (575912) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151557)

...their 20-some-odd employees somehow! Right?


Faux-outrage (2, Funny)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151563)

You know they're all just as happy as pigs in shit to actually have an opinion to write in their blogs.

It's like when I reboot one of my linux boxes and see Segmentation Fault during init, which is happening more than it should with 2.6.5 but that's another topic, it gives me something to do. Hell, the only reason I even have linux boxes is so I can perpetually fix them.

Alternatives are out there (1)

pz (113803) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151573)

There are plenty of other ways to publish a blog. My favorite happens to be Multiply [multiply.com] because it offers so much more than just straight blogging.

WTF? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9151609)

WTF? [bullsballs.com]

No ill intention (2, Insightful)

ViceClown (39698) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151625)

I've been reading ALOT of the track backs over the last 24 hours linked from Mena's post on the SixApart web site. Clearly there are some angry users... and their anger isnt' entirely unfounded. I don't think Six Apart's intentions were to screw anyone or to try and capitalize on a dominent market position via bait and switch. That said, I do think the new pricing schedule is a bit ornerous and it doesnt' seem to have much of a migration strategy for people who are hosting multiple blogs on a shoestring budget. Hopefully SA will add one or two more pricing schedules that will accomodate the grass roots community they helped build. At the very least I think folks would like to see more blogs / authors available at the lower cost teers of the pricing schedule. Just my $0.02

Standard Practice (2, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151629)

Get you to rely on an application it so that its costly to look at alternatives, then slowly raise the price.

hack it! (4, Informative)

IshanCaspian (625325) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151653)

Since MT is written entirely in perl and other non-compiled languages, how hard could it possibly be to hack these limitations out of the free version? I'd bet you just have to comment out a few simple checks, and then distribute a patch...via your blog, of course. :)

Multiple CPU clause? (2, Interesting)

primetyme (22415) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151654)

I can't believe there's not more uproar about the license restriction on multi-CPU machines. [movabletype.org]

"You may install the Software on only one (1) computer or server having a single CPU."

Who came up with that one?? I'd wager that the vast vast majority of hosting clients have no clue how many CPU's the server their website is running on has, while a very large number of hosting providers use multi-CPU servers.

That clause is basically setting up thousands and thousands of people to break the license agreement they agreed to without even knowing it.

The only reason I can see for that clause, other than pure oversight on the behalf of Six Apart, is they want to push people using MT to their own hosting service(TypePad).

The software should be free... (2, Funny)

El_Smack (267329) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151665)

...but it should cost .01 cent (or 1/100 Euro) per word entered. If every blogger had to think about what they were writing, blogs might not the emo, angsty, tedious wasteland they are now.

And yes, /. is included, so I owe Taco 53 cents. Sigs don't count.

Here we go.. (1)

scrubmuffin (173705) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151680)

"Is this a case of bait-n-switch, or simply a company trying to capitalize on its dominant market share?" .. or maybe, just maybe.. a company trying to make money? Could it be something even more sinister like a guy trying to pay his bills?

If you are developing software on your own time to benefit humanity, I say give it away, just don't punish those of us who run our own companies and try and pay our mortgage by charging money for the one thing we know how to do.

Bag groceries by day and code by night. Noble maybe, practical. Nah.

Sing it with me now..
"If I had a million dollars.."

Metafilter discussion (2, Insightful)

y0bhgu0d (168149) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151681)

If you are one of the people who is confused as to why this is such a big deal, the Metafilter [metafilter.com] post on this subject (mainly the comments on the post) should help clarify.

Personally, I use LiveJournal (i keep it friends only, and use it so my friends who have scattered across the states can keep up, and so i can keep up with them).

With all due respect (0, Flamebait)

222 (551054) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151684)

Fuck em. Thats a little too underhanded for my tastes, let alone my dollar.

Free _is_ better (4, Interesting)

superultra (670002) | more than 10 years ago | (#9151705)

I'm not a cheapskate. I believe in paying for good software.

But I won't pay for Movable Type. Here's why.

On SixApart's behalf, they made several big mistakes in launching their pricing structure. Since they announced MT3 and that they were going to charge for it, they also promised a free non-crippled version of MT3. Blogging is generally a communual experience. I blog casually, and I have a couple of friends who write posts on my blog from time to time, and a wife who keeps her own blog. The free version of MT3 is crippled, because it limits the users and number of blogs. Limiting user base is bad thing to do when blogging is still relatively new.

Secondly, the pricing structure is much higher than what people anticipated. Those in the beta test for MT3 had absolutely no idea that it was going to cost this much, and many who did participate have publically stated they wouldn't have if they did know. Why the hostility?

Two reasons. It's the community that made MT what it is now. There's not really that much new functionality in MT3 that makes it worth paying $100 for (the $70 is a temporary discount remember?). Many of the features that made MT2x worth using were coded by non-SixApart people. Users - with no profit motive whatsoever - coded hundreds of MT plugins that exceeded the coding ability of SixApart. Others wrote far more detailed tutorials and instructions than SixApart provided for their own software. So, SixApart is compensating them by running a contest for the best plugin? That's insulting, honestly.

Secondly, there are blogging apps that do as good a job as MT3, if not better. And, they're [textpattern.com] free [wordpress.org] . Others have similar pricing structures as MT3 but do more. So, why MT3? And let's get this straight: using something for free isn't necessarily being a cheapass. If maintaining my blogs as they are will cost me upwards $150, why shouldn't I migrate to a free solution? Imagine if Windows had the same stability and security as Linux, but cost the same as it does now for a company to run. Why wouldn't a company move to Linux? Are companies being the durgatory form of cheapskates by moving to a lower priced product? No. It's common market sense, and because of its love for linux and open source, slashdot should be aware of this better than anyone. Some MT users probably are cheapass, and will warez the MT software if they can or do whatever they can to avoid paying.

But a larger portion are paying for accounts on livejournal and blogger. They are paying for internet access and webhosting. They're not cheapskates. Instead, like me, they just don't want to pay $150-200 for what is basically a hobby, and a hobby that can continue for free if we switch software. Why should we support a company that doesn't announce its pricing structure beforehand, and keeps it as close to their chest as possible? Why did SixApart do that? Why didn't they announce it before time? Because they knew people would be pissed. This reaction is no surprise to anyone.
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