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Intel CPU Warranty Invalid w/o CPU Fan?

Cliff posted more than 10 years ago | from the a-warning-for-intel-CPU-users dept.

Slashdot.org 100

saberint asks: "Recently, I had a good argument with Intel as I had a 3.2G P4 chip die on me within 6 months. I sent the CPU back to Intel only to be told that they will NOT honour the warranty because I did not send the fan back with it. Apparently the fan and the CPU's serial must match or else there is no warranty. This 'policy' is not listed on the warranty card or on their website. So for all you network admin or IT support people out there, keep the fan and the CPU together. Has anyone else experienced this with Intel?"

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Stupid Question... (2, Interesting)

pulu (662388) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244080)

Why couldn't you send the fan in after they told you? Even if I replaced the stock fan with some fancy lit liquid Nitrogen fan, I'd keep it around. After all, they do make nice fans, Intel.

somehow... (2, Funny)

spcmastertim (782657) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244142)

with intel, the chip always hits the fan...

Re:Stupid Question... (1)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244411)

Not that he couldn't, he didn't. Nothing asked him to.

Re:Stupid Question... (2, Informative)

saberint (782384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244995)

The heatsink and fan made its way over to Norway (dont ask), but as u may guess, its on its way back now...

Re:Stupid Question... (1)

The Clockwork Troll (655321) | more than 10 years ago | (#9254986)

Actually, they do not always make nice fans, at least for their own processors.

On an open test bench, at room temperature, a Prescott core P4 runs at least 70 degrees C under load [legitreviews.com] using the Intel-bundled heatsink/fan.

Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (3, Insightful)

jpu8086 (682572) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244088)

This is obviously a scheme to deter overclockers from scamming away at Intel's Expense.

Holy shit, the 3.2 Ghz Processor blew up when I ran it at 4.0 Ghz. Let me try and get a new one. Oops, I glued on a custom industrial-quality fan to cool the damn thing.

I mean why would a person NOT use the fan provided by Intel in the retail package? The complete package is warranted, if something happens -- it is Intel's problem. So, don't put monster fans when the retail package will do.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Interesting)

etymxris (121288) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244101)

The problem is that many places sell chips separate of fans. For example, newegg.com. If I buy my chip and fan separately, why should I be penalized?

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (4, Informative)

baywulf (214371) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244124)

Those with a separate fan are probably unboxed and thus considered OEM parts. The warrenty on those are much more limited from my recollection.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9244146)

You have hit the nail exactly on the head... OEM. OEM means intel says "go complain to who you bought it from, not from us". That's the whole point, and why OEM parts are cheaper than the retail parts.

All the Intel retail kits come with fans and heatsinks. That's probably the easy way they can tell if you're sending an OEM or Retail part back.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

shaitand (626655) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244814)

Yeah, that would make perfect sense, except they can determine instantly if the cpu was oem or retail from the serial number on the cpu.

Having or not having the fan doesn't make it any easier or harder for them, anymore than it does for western digital hard drives. Hell WD even has a util on the website that will determine not only if it's oem or retail but the date the warranty started and if the drive is in warranty (which is bunk, they go by the date of manufacture rather than the date of sale).

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (3, Informative)

johnfreez (676760) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244387)

Back when I used to sell these things at a local mom 'n pop shop, as the parent stated, the warranty on the cpus varied as follows:

Intel Retail (boxed): 3 years direct with Intel
AMD Retail (boxed): 3 years direct with AMD
AMD OEM (chip only): 1 year through reseller (us)
Intel OEM (chip only): dunno, the boss didn't bother buying them because they were almost as expensive as the retail versions

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Crash Gordon (233006) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244168)

many places sell chips separate of fans

These are "tray product" and are not warranted by Intel. If your processor-sans-fan dies on you, your beef is with the people you bought it from -- not Intel. There is no wiggle on that policy.

Why do you think the bare processors are so much cheaper? You're not paying for the warranty, that's why! Don't kid yourself that warranties are "free" because they aren't.

Much cheaper? (1)

kcb93x (562075) | more than 10 years ago | (#9256179)

Ummm....unless you're talking in batches of 1000, I believe you're mistaken...Whenever I've ordered AMD CPUs from Newegg.com and the like anyway, the difference between OEM and Retail is usually under $5.

You'd be dumb not to do it. The fans just sit on the shelf, if the box comes with built-in cooling (like my Shuttle SK43G) but I've had no problem with the two AMD heatsinks I got with the other two. (2400+ and 2600+)

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (4, Insightful)

menscher (597856) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244141)

I mean why would a person NOT use the fan provided by Intel in the retail package?

You obviously haven't heard them. They're loud. Much nicer to replace them with a Vantec stealth fan or somesuch.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (0)

jpu8086 (682572) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244165)

I dont beleive that for a second. *IF* they are loud, invest in a good case. However, I don't think the processor fans are loud by themself. Its the other case fans (which are larger and more in number) that make most of the noise.

The Dell boxes that use retail Intel processors and fans are generally very quite. Rated below 30db.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

menscher (597856) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244489)

Well, believe what you will. But my guess is that you haven't heard the fans they ship with their Xeon processors. The P4 fans are not nearly as loud.

On a related note, don't buy your case from Intel. They use a Delta 120mm fan, which is famous for being the loudest fan in production. (Sounds like a vacuum cleaner.) Once I replaced the rear 120mm fan, and the front 90mm fan, the two CPU fans became quite noticable. Replaced those, and now it sounds like a normal system.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Micro$will (592938) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245418)

They use a Delta 120mm fan, which is famous for being the loudest fan in production. (Sounds like a vacuum cleaner.)

You've obviously never heard a Vantec Tornado in action. I can only use it for a couple hours at a time because it drives me nuts.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Toraz Chryx (467835) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245567)

On the flipside, Delta do make some very quiet fans.

eg, the fans in a Powermac G5 :)

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244574)

The Dell boxes that use retail Intel processors and fans are generally very quite.

That may very well be the reason that Dell doesn't use those fans. If you've ever looked inside an optiplex, they have a big green hood that folds in over the CPU heatsink which leads to a fan mounted to the case. Looks like this [silentpcreview.com] . A year into their lifetime, they get pretty loud. I'm about to go purchase a second one because this one is keeping me up at night. And the air quality in my place is pretty clean, I'm a non-smoker, etc..

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Thu Anon Coward (162544) | more than 10 years ago | (#9255215)

the reason that Dell uses those green hoods is so that airflow is properly routed over the fans and heatsinks to provide good cooling. if you remove them, you are asking for trouble

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

compwizrd (166184) | more than 10 years ago | (#9259213)

IBM's netvista's have done the same thing, a black hood.

Has a pair of 92mm fans in it, not something I normally carry in my toolbox.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Cyno01 (573917) | more than 10 years ago | (#9255766)

I think this [zalman.co.kr] would be a lot quieter than either option you suggested. A good cpu cooler can make a difference in overall noise, but i agree, isolating the case fans with those rubber dampeners has dropped the noise level a couple of dB. Case fans are a good first step since they're more easily replaced and you dont mess up your warantee. Thats if you bought a prebuilt system though...

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Interesting)

kawika (87069) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244151)

I mean why would a person NOT use the fan provided by Intel in the retail package?
Because the stock Intel HSF is too damned loud? And because this has varied over time, the Intel fans used to be quiet but recent ones are noisy. Yes, you can buy an OEM CPU without a fan if you want, but the price difference is often only a couple of bucks--which is more than what the Intel HSF is worth. I buy whatever is in stock, and lately have been throwing out a lot of those noisy pieces of junk.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

Cthefuture (665326) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244160)

I mean why would a person NOT use the fan provided by Intel in the retail package?

I'll tell you why. I don't overclock (I've been known to underclock though) and I like quiet systems. The stock fan/heatsink combo doesn't cut it. I tend to use a larger sink than necessary and run a larger fan at a low voltage. I enjoy silence. You don't know what you're missing out on.

With that said, if it's a retail CPU then I keep the old sink and fan so I could send it all back if needed. I rarely buy retail packages any more though.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9244385)

Spoken like somebody who has never used an Intel stock HSF. Seriously- I have P4 with its retail fan, and it is at least as quiet as my $80 Zahlman HSF on my Athlon system. Intel does not skimp with their retail fans.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9249316)

you need to undervolt your fan dumbass that's what the point was. run a larger than you need heatsink and run the fan slowly. nobody said that zalman shit was quiet

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (4, Interesting)

Cecil (37810) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244166)

I have no experience with Intel parts, as I swore off them long ago (their marketing of the processor ID struck the wrong chord with me), but for AMD:

The fan that comes with the processor is garbage. It may be warranted, but I'm not worried about getting a replacement fan. I *am* worried about keeping the heat and noise levels of my computer to a minimum, and stability to a maximum. The horrifically noisy and weak AMD fans (and their associated undersized heatsinks) may be 'good enough' for people who are used to Windows crashing every couple of days, but it's not good enough for me.

No, I don't overclock. I've been known to underclock, though. That probably voids my warranty as well. Oh well.

But if you think the stock HSF is suitable for everyone (or even most, in my opinion) you're absolutely wrong. Do you void your warranty on your car when you replace the all-season tires with Blizzaks? Why should you need to anyway, those tires that came with your car work fine in all seasons, don't they?

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244258)

The fan that comes with the processor is garbage. It may be warranted, but I'm not worried about getting a replacement fan. I *am* worried about keeping the heat and noise levels of my computer to a minimum, and stability to a maximum.

Agreed. We had 80% of our AMD CPU fans die on our new systems (about 15 systems in all failed) within 9 months. We replaced them with Zalman copper flower coolers and have been happy ever since. I don't know who AMD outsourced fans to, but they are HORRIBLE.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (3, Informative)

k4_pacific (736911) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244295)

"Do you void your warranty on your car when you replace the all-season tires with Blizzaks?"

Actually, my brother is a mechanic at a Ford dealer. He says that they will not honor the warranty if a wheel bearing fails prematurely and the car does not have the stock tires on it. Putting wide or offset tires on a car causes the weight of the car to not be supported directly beneath the bearing and can lead to premature bearing failure.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244629)

In order for Ford to pull this off, they'd have to (at least) warrant their stock tires for as long as they do their wheel bearings. Anything else would be criminal.

There's laws about this stuff, yaknow - you can use whatever replacement car parts you feel like without warranty concerns, as long as they fall reasonably within factory specifications. You can even do the work yourself.

It's not like he's trying to turn that Ford into a pimp wagon with 12" whitewalls protruding 4" past the fender -- the parent poster just wants a set of Blizzaks for his fishtailing Focus. Why would he deviate from the factory offset or width, unless he wanted to spend $x on new rims at the same time? It's -so- -much- cheaper to just have them remounted twice a year...

(Of course, I'm assuming that Blizzaks are, indeed, available in stock Ford sizing. Which may well not be the case.)

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

BrynM (217883) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244763)

In order for Ford to pull this off, they'd have to (at least) warrant their stock tires for as long as they do their wheel bearings. Anything else would be criminal.
Nah. This is why the manual (in the glove box) says to use approved tires. They told you what you were supposed to do in the manual.

And it reads so much easier than in an EULA. Too bad they can't do that with the loan contract.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

ColaMan (37550) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245396)

And there's also a little "tyre placard
that's either stuck inside the glovebox, or on near the drivers door hinge (so you see it when you open the door). Manufacturers are quite specific about what tyres you should put on your car. Of course, one of the main reasons is safety - for example if you put a lower speed rating tyre on your car than what the tyre placard says, it's illegal (for obvious reasons).

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9248659)

I dunno about in the UK (you're using 'tyre' so I'm going to go out on a limb there) but in the USA it is definitely not illegal to run a lower speed-rated tire. First of all, ANY stret legal tire should be good to 85mph sustained. Second, the lowest speed rating, H, means something like good to 120MPH. There is no where in the USA where it is legal to drive over I believe 70 mph. If it were it certainly wouldn't be over 80 mph, which is within the limits of any tire approved by the DOT for street use.

In the US, it's legal to use any wheels/tires/rubber which are DOT approved and which do not stick out past the body of your car. If they do stick out past the body, you need mud flaps. Most big lifted trucks don't have them but most cops are bubbas (at least around here) who think that kind of shit is cool so they don't get ticketed.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 10 years ago | (#9251875)

I've seen places where the speed limit is 75 or 80, and there are sections of Montana and Wyoming where the enforced limit is "drive safely".

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 10 years ago | (#9256869)

Even so, some tyres are rated beyond that in the UK. Most UK cars need T-rated tyres, which are good to just over 100mph. The handbook for my elderly Citroen CX (Slashdot janitors, please can we have HTML entities so accented characters work?) specifies V-rated, which are good up to 150mph - I don't know why because it's nowhere near that fast, although the 2.5 turbo version is. A lot of it comes down to the weight of the car and expected handling, though. Since you tend to chuck it about into corners, it needs stronger (not necessarily bigger) tyres.


Spare a thought for those of us who just can't get the specified tyres any more, though. Michelin 145SR15s (really tall and skinny, for a very rare and specific old Citroen) just aren't made any more, although vintage tyre suppliers will sell them for about 100 pounds (entities please, are you listening?) each! Meh, the Firestones are just about as good, and only 30 quid each...

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9258385)

Personally, if I had a car that took tall skinny tires, I'd change wheels and run different rubber. Tall skinny tires have more sidewall flex and negatively affect handling.

Now I kind of misspoke when I said that H was the lowest rating. There are passenger tires which are unrated and all are supposed to conform to minimum DOT specs, then they give tread life and traction ratings. But here there is no legal requirement for any particular tire on any particular vehicle.

I've had vehicles with H (my current car wears Kumho 711s which are H rated) as well as V and Z (Doesn't get any higher than Z.)

Anyway, I paid US$45 each for my 205/15-50 Kumho 711s, which are truly an excellent tire - they're considered a summer tire but have good wet handling characteristics. I got them off tire rack and mounted them myself however :) Anyway if you can find some cheap (used?) aftermarket wheels you can probably bring your tire cost down dramatically.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 10 years ago | (#9299624)

I can outhandle a Scoobydoo Unimpretzive quite happily on my tall skinny tyres, thanks. The lovely self-levelling hydraulics make all the difference. I can't outperform them though, not with 67bhp @ 6700rpm...


Plus, you're never, ever going to get wheels with a dish that deep and three studs - the centre of the tyre is directly in line with the balljoints in the hub, so the wheel has fairly odd geometry. The apparent lack of front brake discs freaks out the spotty youth in the local tyre-fitting centre, too. Hint - look on the side of the gearbox...

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9302887)

Aw crap, three lug? There's a renault dauphin that's been in the auto body shop at school for a couple years now that we always laugh at as we go by - especially the wheels.

You would think that the tire guys over there would have seen inboard brakes before, though. Heck even the parking brake on my 1960 Dodge Phoenix (2dr. Dart) was a disc brake at the back of the transmission. :)

Re:Overclockers... (massively offtopic) (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 10 years ago | (#9306407)

It's really light, and it doesn't throw that much power onto the road. Oh, and the bolts are about as thick as your thumb - about the size of truck wheel studs.

As for the the inboard brakes, Jags have inboard rear discs, as do some Alfa-Romeos, but inboard front discs are pretty uncommon. Old 2CVs had inboard front drums, which were a bear to work on...

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 10 years ago | (#9330643)

The manual says whatever it says. The warranty says whatever it says, as well.

*shrug*

There's Federal laws in the United States which supercede such corporate verbiage. (Ford warranty != act of Congress.)

And they say I can use whatever 215/R15 tires I want to, as long that's what the car came with and they fall within factory specifications (including runout and roundness and tread depth and a slew of other parameters, I'm sure, if there's a lawyer in the mix). The automobile manufacturer will have no obligation to warrant these replacement tires, of course. But they're still obligated to warrant the rest of the vehicle, including the wheels and bearings, unless the use of replacement tires provably caused damage to these other items.

Same with motor oils. Or filters. Or wiper blades. Or whatever.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

stanmann (602645) | more than 10 years ago | (#9246500)

Yes, if you buy blizzaks in stock ford sizing ford will have to warrant the bearings...

OTOH if you put on 240/80R12 instead of the 185/60R14 stock size, then you can expect the dealer to scoff at you... perhaps audibly, perhaps under his breath.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9250127)

You're thinking of non-factory rims, not non-factory tires. A tire can't have improper offset spacing. A rim with the wrong offset, however, can wreak havoc on wheel bearings.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Thu Anon Coward (162544) | more than 10 years ago | (#9255232)

the only poster to even get it right and he posts Anonymous. give credit where credit is due, you should have posted with your nick

intel stock hsfs are excellent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9244400)

everybody respects them, and many overclock with them. they are very decent in terms of cooling and noise, they only need a little thermal paste. amd is the one with the shit stock hsfs (cheapo speezes do the trick).

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

idiot900 (166952) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244495)

The horrifically noisy and weak AMD fans (and their associated undersized heatsinks) may be 'good enough' for people who are used to Windows crashing every couple of days, but it's not good enough for me.

FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with the stock AMD-supplied HSF on my 2400+. It's not noisy (and no, I wasn't partly deaf before getting the fan). Haven't had stability problems yet. I do have decent (but not obscene) case ventilation.

I have a hard time believing that AMD would not test the HSFs they supply, and a harder time believing they would deliberately supply HSFs they know to be insufficient for proper cooling in any reasonable case. They made the CPU - they ought to know what sort of HSF is sufficient.

wtf? (1)

slittle (4150) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244800)

The horrifically noisy and weak AMD fans (and their associated undersized heatsinks) may be 'good enough' for people who are used to Windows crashing every couple of days, but it's not good enough for me.
What the fuck are you talking about? My main workstation/gaming box runs WXP on a Barton 2500+ with stock cooler, doesn't make a racket (OK, it's not an 80mm 'silent' fan, big deal), and never crashes.

Stock cooling is fine for most people (that don't live in the middle of the desert).

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244853)

The AMD heatsink and fan that came with my boxed Athlon Palomino 2000+XP is really noisy - "hairdryer at a distance" noisy.

The AMD heatsink and fan that came with my boxed Athlon Barton 2500+ XP is much quieter (hairdryer in another room with a thick closed door), but doesn't appear to cool as well. It's in my room 24/7.

The PC with the Palomino seems to pump out a lot more heat - leave the computer on and the room warms up a lot.

That said, I live in the tropics and I have no problems with my CPUs not getting enough cooling, even without airconditioning etc. From time to time I run the burnK7 stuff to stress test the CPUs and cooling systems, and they still stay OK.
I've managed to get the barton up to 70 degrees C (room temp = 33+ degrees C ) when the CPU fan was a bit dusty.

But even then neither has ever crashed.

The barton PC has been up so far for 66 days (running FreeBSD 4.9[1]), it does mail, web, transparent proxy caching, dns, dhcp, pppoe, file serving etc for the house.

The last time I brought it down was to clean the fans and image the disk- dust really affects the cooling (and noise).

I've never overclocked it even though it's an unlocked Barton. I've underclocked it before tho - didn't seem to gain much in temperature reduction - 800MHz for a few degrees drop isn't really worth it.

So far I haven't really experienced Intel CPUs or AMD CPUs failing - most of that crashing stuff is due to other flaky hardware (esp RAM, HDD) or drivers. At my workplace we have had at least two UltraSPARCs failing - from Google it seems a common enough thing for UltraSPARC CPUs to fail even without abuse.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

mjmccall (39556) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244252)

So your pc doesn't sound like at hurricane??? I run a Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu - my pc sits next to my bed and stays on all the time...

I don't overclock it either - I've even considered underclocking to make it quieter. Does this mean I no longer deserve a warranty??

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

TykeClone (668449) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244424)

For white noise?

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244269)

" This is obviously a scheme to deter overclockers from scamming away at Intel's Expense.
"


No it's not. It's 'obviously' a scheme to make sure they only do the warranty stuff on factors they can actually control. If a 3rd party fan failed, why would that be Intel's fault?

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9248705)

Modern processors, including those from intel, are supposed to have thermal protection. What difference does it make if you run it with the OEM fan, an aftermarket fan, or no fan at all? The CPU should protect itself. Before they issue an RMA, support should ask you what fan you're using.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#9249170)

" What difference does it make if you run it with the OEM fan, an aftermarket fan, or no fan at all?"

The difference is that Intel can only guarantee the products they make.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9249282)

Intel makes the CPU, and the CPU is where the thermal limiter is. The warranty is on the CPU, I wouldn't want one of their crappy fans replaced to begin with. (I have an OEM AMD fan which also sucks, mind you, but I don't care if it's loud because my system has a shitload of fans in it.)

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#9249427)

" Intel makes the CPU, and the CPU is where the thermal limiter is."

CPU requires fan. Intel provides fan. 3rd party also provides fan. Bad 3rd party fan == bad processor. Bad processor != manufacturing defect from Intel.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9252553)

I think you're missing the point. Legally that might be true. Logically that is complete bullshit. It's a feature of the processor that it is not supposed to be damaged by self-induced overheating due to thermal protection.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#9252590)

"It's a feature of the processor that it is not supposed to be damaged by self-induced overheating due to thermal protection."

I'm sorry, I didn't catch that you meant that it's already supposed to be 'defective fan proof'. I was thinking in a more general sense. Hope I wasn't too frustarting.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (3, Insightful)

obeythefist (719316) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244903)

Actually, the reason Intel is asking for the fan is because they will look at the thermal gunk on the bottom of the fan, then tell you that you didn't install the fan correctly, thus voiding your warranty. I reckon if you check the fine print in the warranty documentation, they'll disavow any responsibility if they believe the fan has been installed incorrectly.

And when I say incorrectly, there really isn't much to it, the fan goes on and it clips on and it's done, but "incorrectly" means a whole different thing in warranty legalese.

Step 3 for intel: Profit.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

yorgasor (109984) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244944)

Um, from what I can tell, Intel doesn't require that you use their HSF, just that you have it (I'm guessing that they match the serials to determine whether or not it's an OEM or retail). If the CPU were damaged because the person was using some other fancy HSF, how would Intel know?

And besides, if you end up using some less than adequate HSF instead of the one that comes with it, doesn't the P4 have some special thermal protection to start scaling back the CPU speed to prevent damage? If you turn on the computer w/o an HSF on the CPU, it doesn't fry. I've read reviews where they have the system running some heavy duty benchmark utility when they popped the HSF off, the P4 survived. The Athlon they compared it with at the time, died a horrible death (but recent AMD Bartons also have thermal protection, it saved my CPU already).

So it's not they require you to use their HSF, it's that they require you to return it so they can verify it's a retail model. They couldn't care less if you actually used it.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (0, Flamebait)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245374)

the retail fan must be present rule doesn't prove it wasn't overclocked, AT ALL. they're sometimes LOUD, and I doubt if the fans always work properly for the 3 years. this requirement to use the stock h/s isn't really news anyways, it's fuckin listed on the box iirc.

however.. get your consumer protection up a notch! the consumer shouldn't need to deal with intel directly at all in a normal situation, they should be able to go to the shop they bought it(retail cpu) from and have the warranty issues dealt with them (joe q. consumer shouldn't need to deal with some corp hundreds or thousands of miles away, the local shop sold the thing it's their responsibility).

the 'retail' cpu's are pretty much a scam in themselfs anyways(to get you to buy their HS and pay a little extra. same way a scam the 'extended' warranties you get with 'just a little extra so you dont need to worry' at 'cheap' stores are.)

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (2, Interesting)

dr00g911 (531736) | more than 10 years ago | (#9246068)

Perhaps they're putting the chip in a mini PC system [shuttle.com] that doesn't support a conventional fan?

I've assembled many Shuttle-based systems like that (for myself and clients), and each of them have a pretty nifty heatpipe and ventilation fan [shuttle.com] -- but no room whatsoever to install the massive fan that ships with Intel chips these days.

So, I've got a stack of 'em in the closet. Up to about 25 at last count, give or take.

I've personally had Intel warranty replace a defective 2.4 P4 -- it took several hours on hold and I had to speak with Intel directly, and not my distributor -- but they replaced it knowing it was in this type of system and their fan wasn't in use.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

faster (21765) | more than 10 years ago | (#9249296)

...why would a person NOT use the fan provided by Intel...?

Because it won't fit in a 1U case? Which happens to have 4 fans and completely cycles the air in the case about every 2 seconds. There are vent slots in the case so that cool air is pulled across a heatsink that just barely fits under the top cover.

The CPU seems to run cool as long as the top cover is on. The HD is another story... I'll be drilling some vent holes near the HD before these installed in the rack.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

NateTech (50881) | more than 10 years ago | (#9256445)

Get a better designed 1RU case. And don't trust those four tiny 1" high fans... friends and I have already blown one motherboard/CPU combo assuming those would last a while. They were dead in 3 months.

Take a look at the squirrel-cage ducted blower in an HP/Compaq 1RU DL380 sometime... that's what you want in a 1RU case. Those cheesy-assed 1" high fans will bite you -- soon.

Re:Overclockers and their "huge mamma" fans (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#9250222)

I must be missing something in amid these posts, because the obvious question to me is, "why not just return the CPU with the fan?" After all, the fan came with the CPU. You have the fan. They are not sold separately.

May I reccomend (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9244099)


That you send the fan that you used with this cpu to them. If they complain that it is not the right fan (and it works), since the necessity of a particular fan is not mentioned on your warranty materials, I would promptly contact my attorney general and your state's division of consumer affairs (if it has one).

Sue them (0, Flamebait)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244120)

There's a reason we have a legal system for breach of contract. Intel breached their contract with you and ought to be held accountable. Worried about Intel's lawyers? Just call the press or threaten to. It'll cost Intel more to deal with the bad press than it will to replace your chip. As soon as they hear about a care, I guarentee they'll capitulate and just give you a replacement.

Re:Sue them (1)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 10 years ago | (#9248119)

Yeah, Fox News will really chew them up over this.

I recommend this guy send the fan in if he can. Maybe demand intel pays for shipping since it's not in the warrenty. I don't see how this is a big deal really.

Another reason to go AMD. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9244212)

Especially since Intel is going to the deceptive PR rating scheme for its processors now, anyway, just like AMD and Cyrix.

Totally legit. (5, Informative)

Padrino121 (320846) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244223)

There are two tracks for Intel processors, OEM and retail.

If I remember right the OEM have something like a 15 day warranty from Intel, after that you need to take it up with your reseller.

The retail CPUs have a three year warranty but they come with a fan designed for the processor right from Intel. It comes as a package and you are only supposed to use the Intel fan, any other will void your warranty.

I imagine getting the fan serves multiple purposes. Did the CPU die because the fan was weak/dead. Did the user swap it out for another unapproved fan, etc.

devil's advocate (4, Insightful)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244230)

I'm sure Intel has been getting plenty of returns, both from overclockers, from people who use the wrong fans for whatever reason, or who install fans improperly. Why should Intel have to bear the burden of these returns when it's not their fault?

Re:devil's advocate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9256081)

because their CPUs shouldn't be overheating with a faulty fan installed. Faulty heatsink installation is one thing, but a faulty fan gives plenty of time for the CPU to be shutdown.

For that matter, why are their CPUs dying anyway? AMD CPUs are as tough as rocks when it comes to thermal pressures. I know of a guy who ran his Duron for 2 weeks with a dead fan before he realised it.

Can you read? (2, Informative)

T-Ranger (10520) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244234)

This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect,
alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing.
Emphasis mine... The fans come from the factory glued on with better adhesive then they use on the Shuttles heat tiles. I can't see how you would have gotten it off without using some serious, damaging, force.

Re:Can you read? (1)

wayne606 (211893) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244472)

I doubt they glue the fan on. The HEAT SINK, yes, they glue on, and you'd probably ruin the thermal conductivity of the package if you tried to replace that.

Re:Can you read? (2, Funny)

scotti (222754) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245119)

$212.12 for a great motherboard.
$403.00 for a Intel P4.
$40.00 for the really cool fan with LEDs.

The look on your face when you smoke your processor improperly over clocking it and find out you really shouldn't have been cocky and tossed that Intel fan in the rubbish bin.

(wait for it...) PRICELESS!

Re:Can you read? (2, Informative)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#9250304)

My 2.8 P4 did not come with the heatsink glued on. They came in the same package, to be sure, but they did not come glued together. That I had to do manually with the supplied heat conductive tape.

Of course, a 2.8GHz P4 is grossly obsolete. Perhaps Intel has subsequently changed their packaging.

Re:Can you read? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9257597)

Besides:
"not in accordance with product instructions"

Most chips I've bought come with product instructions that state "Attach your AMD-certified FAN" or some such.

Would say that if you're not following those instructions (i.e. not attaching a certified fan), then you've missed the boat with regards to warranty.

not on the warranty card? (2, Interesting)

way2trivial (601132) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244244)

"This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing."

what do the instructions say concerning the fan? do they say, "use this fan"?

Re:not on the warranty card? (2, Informative)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 10 years ago | (#9256267)

I'd say either

usage not in accordance with product instructions

or

improper installation

are the clauses that Intel are using to get out of the warranty.

The question is, in the installation instructions, I'd be sure they specify to use a fan, however, do they specify to use the supplied fan ?

Hmm.... Dual cpu's? (2, Interesting)

GoRK (10018) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244305)

This kind of makes me wonder...

I built a dual xeon system today using two boxed intel chips... I took the parts out and put them on the bench then installed them in the machine. I have no idea if I paired the fans or heatsinks or baffles or mounts or whatever correctly with the processors. There were two of everything. Maybe they are around backwards; who knows?!?

I hope if one dies they will honor the warranty even if I send them back the wrong fan!

Re:Hmm.... Dual cpu's? (1)

caston (711568) | more than 10 years ago | (#9259371)

Usually if the cpu temp is excessive that is a sure "fire" sign that it's been done wrong. You only every screw it up once.

Make a call to your lawyer. (2, Insightful)

raider_red (156642) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244339)

A letter from your attorney could go a long way toward fixing this. Better yet, if you have a friend in the legal profession, they might do it as a freebie. (Just expect them to call you to fix your computer at some time.)

Re:Make a call to your lawyer. (4, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244442)

"A letter from your attorney could go a long way toward fixing this. "

Or you'll get a letter back saying "We cannot guarantee processors that use unapproved fans." Not trying to side with Intel here, but they would have a point. If the processor burned because the fan sucked (or didnt suck?) then you'd be approaching the wrong place about warranty.

Re:Make a call to your lawyer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9248115)

I thought Intel's CPUs had thermal guards to prevent burning. The only way I see you could burn such a chip would be putting in too high a voltage.

Re:Make a call to your lawyer. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9253190)

Running a processor too hot will hurt it and it will prematurely burn out. The thermal guard only keeps it from melting on the motherboard, not from running hot.

AMD seems to have the same policy (3, Interesting)

madstork2000 (143169) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244479)

*NOTE* I did not check AMD's website or the warranty card recently, but when I did I did not notice mention of this policy.

Anyway, I had an AMD return (using the "home"/retail) support department and they requested that I send the original cooling fan and heatsink.

Since I had the heatsink, and the CPU was over two years old I did not push the issue, BUT they did seem to have the same policy...

-MS2k

Intel 101 (1)

droyad (412569) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244497)

Call back and speak to someone else. From my expirience if you don't get a good result, you will get it from someone else. We have only ever had one CPU fail (out of 500) and they did not want the fan back. But that was some time ago.

update on the fan type etc (3, Informative)

saberint (782384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244890)

The fan was changed to use the thermaltake aqarius2 water cooling system. Not to overclock the computer but so I could leave it on 24/7. The issue more is that I live in Australia, where in summer it hits 40-45 degrees centigrade (approx 103-113), and it can hit just shy of 50 (122) if we r unlucky. If i was too have the computer running at 80% with the standard intel fan then it would crash within 5 minutes. It was either the water cooling or leave the aircon on all the time....and id hate to see that power bill...

Re:update on the fan type etc (2, Interesting)

obeythefist (719316) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244917)

Bizarre. I live in Perth and it gets just as hot here. I leave my server on 24/7, it has used an intel 1GHz PIII, now it's using an Athlon 2200+, and either processor doesn't get too hot with stock cooling.

You must be somewhere in the NT if you get up to 50C, or somewhere in the Kimberley. In which case you would surely have A/C?

Re:update on the fan type etc (2, Interesting)

saberint (782384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244948)

No im in Perth 2, and yes we do have aircon, but it isnt run 24/7. We are a small company that just cant afford it. But the computer is used as a production server and recently i had to do scripts to take data from a btree database into mysql, using dde (i know i know...dde....but it was all we could connect to the parent application with). It would take about 1 hr to port the data accross running at 100%. With the standard heat sink and fan it would crash in 5 min, thus the water cooling which would keep the chips temp at approx 30 degrees for the whole process.

Re:update on the fan type etc (1)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 10 years ago | (#9256592)

I have the same problem here in southern california, in the worst summers it gets to 120 degrees F, even well ventilated computers start acting strange at those temperatures.

not everyone CAN use the intel fan (1)

Macgyver7017 (629825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9244916)

What about barebones shuttle cases? Mine has a heat pipe and a fan on the back of the case for cpu cooling. No intel reatail fan here. Sam goes for most rack mount cases as they have their own cooling solution.

Re:not everyone CAN use the intel fan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9253219)

Then you buy the OEM processor and you don't get Intel's warranty!

The warranty is IF you use Intel's cooling system. That's why it's part of the package. DUH!

Cpu Redundancy? (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245280)

I don't understand why we are even debating this.

I suppose if you blasted 900$ on a CPU it might matter if it died but it's silly otherwise.

You can get comparable performace for $200 and a those prices the chance of a cpu failing are simply a non issue.

Couple that with the fact that all CPU's are tested before shipping, not crappy testing like Mobo's or HD but quality testing.

And the chances of damaging a CPU are infintessimal it simply doesn't matter anymore.

Also cpu's are completely interchangeable. If one dies you lose 2 hours while you go buy a new one (A better one).

See this? (1)

ColaMan (37550) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245410)

This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including accident, problems with
electrical power, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect, alteration, repair,
improper installation, or improper testing.


I'll wager somewhere in the installation instructions it says "Use a genuine Intel fan".

Intel Sales Rep: Ohhhh, you used a different fan than the one that came with the unit? Sorry , no warranty! Thank you for shopping with Intel!

Sort of Makes Sense . . . (1)

Dausha (546002) | more than 10 years ago | (#9245508)

Okay, let's say you've replaced the stock fan with your preferred custom fan. Countless operating hours later the CPU goes thumbs down and you decide to send it back as it is under warranty. Of course, because you read this /. article, you knew to send in the stock fan/heat sink.

However, I'm sure that the rarely-if-ever used stock fan will betray its lack of use to the company (Intel or AMD as they both seem to have the same requirement). So, then they can say, "sorry, we cannot honor the warranty because you did not use the stock fan as we require."

Sounds a bit sneaky to me, but okay. The last thing I ever have go is the CPU, but I'm not a (over|under)clocker/sys admin.

why do you think? (1)

RMH101 (636144) | more than 10 years ago | (#9246526)

you'll get a standard warranty on a retail one, and you get 3 years if you use their heatsink/fan. this is because of all the failures, the vast majority are due to people fucking it up when they install an aftermarket fan and crack the die or similar. likewise, a thermal pad's easier for joe sixpack to not cock up. intel's using the original fan carrot as a way to reduce the amount of arguing with kids who can't overclock properly - those of us who know what they're doing will be using decent heatsinks and fans, with thermal paste, and taking it on the chin if every now and again that means accidentaly bending a pin or screwing it up.

the $99 fan no doubt (1)

jago25_98 (566531) | more than 10 years ago | (#9246557)

Fans available for just $99 while stocks last

Standard procedure. (1)

Maul (83993) | more than 10 years ago | (#9252361)

Both Intel and AMD will tell you that if you use a different heatsink/fan than the one that came with the processor, you will void the warranty.

What did they ask you to send? (1)

nuggz (69912) | more than 10 years ago | (#9257952)

If they only asked you to return the CPU, and you supplied the CPU. They should honour the warranty.
If they asked for the fan and CPU, obviously you must use both.

If they supplied a fan with the CPU, they can have a condition in the warranty that you must use that fan.

I think this is reasonable, they tested and determined that the fan they supply is adequate. They didn't test the others, so why would they put their money behind them?

With cars they can not demand specific brands of motor oil to use, unless they provide the oil to you free of charge.

Morons anonymous. (1)

commo1 (709770) | more than 10 years ago | (#9261778)

I had a customer once who hot-glued his fan onto his CPU. Hilarious! The strands of hot-glue inside the case.....the burnt glue on the CPU.....the gobs of re-melted glue ont eh AGP port..... the list goes on.
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