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Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the inbox-mine-sweeper dept.

Spam 222

Eggplant62 writes "ChinaTechNews.com is reporting that Steve Linford's Spamhaus.org will open operations with the help of Chinese government officials and ISP's in order to remove spammers operating servers on China's portion of the Internet. For years, China's unwitting ignorance of the spam issues they have with the rest of the world has been a major stumbling block in the fight to control spammers who operate from the netblocks of foreign nations. Seeing China take steps to help the world curb the scourge of junk email has me cheering all the way. Go Steve!"

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Awsome (3, Interesting)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274446)


I'm glad China realized just how much money they're going to save their economy which they have been viciously trying to kickstart lately.

Go China!

Re:Awesome (5, Insightful)

Spyffe (32976) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274511)

I must say, though, that if I were a member of an organization that informs law enforcement, I would be hesitant to work with the government on the mainland.

Spamhaus.org in the US can assume that spammers will be assessed for fines; the punishments may be more serious in China, whose legal system is much less transparent than that of the United States (although the US is working on theirs).

I would be very careful to point spammers out to law enforcement; I would hate to have on my conscience that some guy with a family to feed is sitting in jail just for spamming because I cooperated with his government in prosecuting him.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274535)

I would be very careful to point spammers out to law enforcement
Wow, that reads like hypocrisy given the rest of the post. What I meant was that I would be very hesitant to do so.

Why not? (1, Funny)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274543)

The threat of prosecution in China may deter spammers from continuing spamming.


Being executed and the family being billed for the bullet will certainly prevent them from spamming again.

Re:Why not? (2, Funny)

styrotech (136124) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274613)

Being executed and the family being billed for the bullet will certainly prevent them from spamming again.

I have grave reservations about putting spammers in front of a firing squad.

They need something far more agonising and drawn out. Eaten alive by rats maybe?

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274643)

Spammers should be pulled out and shot. If their family won't pay for the bullet, I know an office full that would.

Re:Why not? (2, Funny)

cujo_1111 (627504) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274654)

I really don't understand this murderous hatred of spammers. What they do is incredibly annoying and costs businesses a lot of money, but have they ever killed anyone?

When spam ends up killing someone, then I may be able to understand putting a spammer in front of a firing squad.

At present I think a better punishment for spammers would be to have an implant inserted into their inner that constantly plays Greensleeves or Macarena constantly. Or insert an implant behind their eyes so they regularly see visions of enlarged penises...

Re:Why not? (1)

styrotech (136124) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274753)

At present I think a better punishment for spammers would be to have an implant inserted into their inner that constantly plays Greensleeves or Macarena constantly.

Now you're going too far!! That's just outright sadism.

Do the math (5, Interesting)

BattyMan (21874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274922)

The guy who got sentenced to jail today for spamming had sent something like 800 million pieces of spam. If we figure that each of those took someone one second to delete, then he's effectively _stolen_ those 800 million seconds from those "recipients".

This amounts to:

8e8 / 86,400 seconds/day = 9259.25 days.

9259.25 days / 365.25 days/year = 25.35 Years

OK so maybe a minor spammer's life isn't _completely_ forfeit. The last time I did this (with numbers from another spammer) it worked out to 112 years.

_How_ much spam was Richter responsible for, again?

Re:Why not? (4, Insightful)

trudyscousin (258684) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274635)

I noted that the parent has been moderated as 'Funny.' Given the kind of justice that is often meted out in China, is it that far from the truth?

yes (1)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274725)

In red china, taxes will pay for the bullet so the widow doesn't have to.

How do you know the justice in China? (0, Flamebait)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274729)

When I was in China, I didn't see the police beating people on every street corner or strip seaching everyone in a bank.

What about the secret courts, and all the other violations under the patriot act.


We in the USA do not have the corner on justice or human rights.

Re:How do you know the justice in China? (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274773)

We have a system, however, that allows these laws to be challenged and struk down. The Patriot Act isn't going to be around much longer; there are too many people against it now. Someone will be tried under it (see the recent ACLU cases...), and the judge will say something like "wtf? this is a law!?!! how did THAT happen?" and it will go away.

That doesn't happen in China. The United States has a pretty good criminal justice system (I say criminal justice system because the civil justice system is complete crap.

A:"Hi there. I'm suing you."
B:"For what?"
A:"I don't like you, and I have some spare cash"
B:*runs out of money*
A:*doesn't win lawsuit, but annoying person is no longer around, case ends*)

Re:How do you know the justice in China? (-1, Flamebait)

jadewang (783586) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274786)

Right. That's why we have Homeland Security. And why we "elected" GWB. Remember the marches in Hong Kong a while back about new Beijing legislation that would curb people's freedoms? The laws being protested don't hold a CANDLE to Homeland Security or its recent brethren. You were saying?

Re:Why not? (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274818)

Given the kind of justice that is often meted out in China, is it that far from the truth?

Pretty far. If you do something against the Chinese government, expect labour camps, torture, your children thrown out of school, your mother evicted from her house, etc. If you commit an economic crime that only affects foreigners, expect a slap on the wrist, then pay a bribe, continue spamming.

Re:Why not? (1)

phorm (591458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274969)

Actually, the family being billed for the bullet part is about right. According to some of my friends from China, if you are executed for various crimes, your family will be sent a bill for the bullet used.

Re:Why not? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274693)

Everyone who modded this funny: take a few hours awayfrom your computer, read a newspaper, spend some time with human beings and try to work out why somebody being shot for sending email isn't actually very funny.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274582)

I don't think they're trying to prosecute spammers - which would be difficult anyway, since, IINM, most of them are in the US - they just relays in China.

Their mission is to close the relays so that they cannot be used by the (US or elsewhere) spammers.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274691)

I would hate to have on my conscience that some guy with a family to feed is sitting in jail just for spamming...

That's a curious way to look at it. Most people's consciouses would probably bother them if they did not report a spammer to any entity that might have the power to stop them using any means available.

A single instance of the criminal act of spamming can affect a million people. The only other comparable criminal single act in terms of the sheer numbers of people affected would be if an individual detonated a nuclear device over a populated area or released a well-designed virus into the wild. These are the most severe of crimes by virtue of the total collective damage that a single instance of the act causes.

Re:Awesome (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274750)

However, the damage to each person who you send a spam to is 3 seconds and maybe a penny of bandwidth. The damage to each person from detonating a nuclear device: their life, home, all possessions, ...

Go China? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274518)

A country that has massacred dissenters and viciously oppressed their people while routinely practicing human rights violations? Uhhh, yeah, "Go China"...

Re:Go China? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274529)

Ohhhh once again...I wish I had mod points. It may sound like a troll, but it's a fact WAYYY too often overlooked.

Re:Go China? (4, Funny)

onya (125844) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274679)

you're just sore that china is better at oppression than the usa.

keep trying, i'm sure you'll get there one day!

Re:Go China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274903)

Could they not have the decency to do it on foreign soil like a civilised country?

China trying to cool economy (5, Insightful)

baomike (143457) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274580)

Actualy china has been trying to slow economic expansion. The current rate is believed to be unsustainable. It has been leading to "excesses".
There is official worry that the bubble may burst,
therefore they are attempting a "soft landing".

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274448)

Woo hoo FP!!!

mod em redundant (0, Offtopic)

Arngautr (745196) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274995)

If these weren't already at -1, I'd mod 'em redundant, come on guys.

CowboyNeals Nutsack Says: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274449)

Frist Post!!

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274454)

fp

Remove country code blocks? (5, Interesting)

Spruce Moose (1857) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274455)

Maybe now people can start removing country code blocks. It's kind of sad having to block off countries due to spam and it would be nice to be able to turn this off.

Re:Remove country code blocks? (1)

tangent3 (449222) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274877)

Especially when it often makes good sense to work with other companies in these countries. Especially when looking for good cheap suppliers [globalsources.com] .

Whack-a-mole (5, Funny)

Hungry Admin (703839) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274456)

welcome to level 50 of whack-a-mole!

Re:Whack-a-mole (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274820)

I've beaten level 260 of Whac-an-Arrow [ddrfreak.com] . Does that count?

Stop it at the source... (4, Funny)

nev4 (721804) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274462)

What's the penalty for spamming in China, getting runover by a tank?

Re:Stop it at the source... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274480)

I think that's the penalty for trying to prevent it...

Seriously though, this is just one more reason to block their, um, block...

Re:Stop it at the source... (3, Insightful)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274530)

They get exiled to jails operated by US contractors.

MOD PARENT FUNNY!! NOT TROLL! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274708)

Lighen up people...

See, that's it. They won't slap these guy's hands (3, Insightful)

BattyMan (21874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274569)

They'll simply disappear.

No seriously. If the Chinese government ever half understands how trashed its email reputation is, it will _never_ let these people touch a keyoard again. There are other careers, several of them, in the PRC.

But really the problem is international spammers exploiting unsecured relays, and I would suppose that with official cooperation Mr. Linford oughta be able to track those down pretty easily.

Whether the Chinese netspace can ever be redeemed is another matter. I for one know no one in China and see no reason to quit filtering anything from or relayed through there. Maybe in about five years, if we hear about the situation being "amazingly well cleaned up", perhaps.

Yeah but (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274463)

What does this have to do with 2004 still not the year of Linux [linuxsucks.org] ?

come on! (-1, Redundant)

dcstimm (556797) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274471)

Come on I like spam, where else am I going to find all those helpful ads!

Re:come on! (1)

ErrorBase (692520) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274629)

You sound like a Mozilla User, Remove the Adblock feature, and do not forget to shutdown the pupup filter. You will get all the spam you'll ever need.

Why is this a Chinese issue - (3, Insightful)

thewldisntenuff (778302) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274476)

atall? When a good percentage (can't find the stat when I need it, of course :) ) of the spam comes out of the United States, why the hell does Spamhaus look to the Chinese for help...We ought to start hunting down those the homegrown idiots like Scott Richter before we solicit help internationally....

Re:Why is this a Chinese issue (5, Informative)

blowdart (31458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274527)

A lot of the spamvertised web sites (including Richter's) are hosted on Chinese ISPs (71% according to a survey [chinatechnews.com] from Commtouch. (The same survey shows that 60.5% of spam is sent from US addresses)

The ISPs are unresponsive to emails, some don't have abuse@ addresses and of course there's the language barrier. So, hopefully, a spamhaus setup in China will get the chinese ISPs to remove the spamvertised sites quickly.

The effectiveness of this idea, of course, remains to be seen. I can see the temptation of taking hard currency when you're happily ignoring complaints about the "Make big penis" web sites hosted in your IP space.

Now if only Russia would do something about the paypal, ebay and bank phishing spammers they host, then I might consider lifting some country blocks.

Re:Why is this a Chinese issue (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274802)

WE can do something about the phishing sites, just need to set up a few machines to go through and put random and invalid data into the fields on the phisher sites, spam the spammers untill they cannot respond efficiently to actual successfully captured info. Have a long list of names and surnames, randomly combined to produce names, then mathematically produced CC#'s that are valid but with bogus billing info (imaginary streets and cities) which the CC companies will throw out but the spammers wouldn't know is bogus untill they tried to use it and it failed.

US is the worst offender. In one word: ComCast (1)

NKJensen (51126) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274935)

Comcast the steady number one with around 5 times more spam than number 2 on the list of the spam recorded by SpamCop.

They simply don't handle spamming zombie computers efficiently.

No .cn domain event gets into the top-10 list:

1 lacking dns 149112 2.411%
2 comcast.net 77528 1.254%
3 attbi.com 13561 0.219%
4 mindspring.com 8718 0.141%
5 charter.com 6043 0.098%
6 rr.com 5751 0.093%
7 revolution-media.com 3395 0.055%
8 zonnet.nl 3230 0.052%
9 ewetel.net 2911 0.047%
10 nameservices.net

Being European, I block everything from ComCast until they start dealing with the issue and not just talking about it (several /. articles about that)

Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (5, Funny)

Richard_L_James (714854) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274478)

Great title.... makes Spamhaus sound like a fast food chain !

Re:Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274499)

But in Communist China, a new branch opens you.

Re:Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (1)

WebMasterP (642061) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274505)

You mean it's not? Damn! I was totally looking forward to a delicious SPAM BURGER [whattocook.com] on my next trip to China.

Re:Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (3, Funny)

Richard_L_James (714854) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274558)

hmmm maybe your right. Imagine the spam burger offers... *Go large* for an extra...

Prime German Quisine... (1)

the HIM (773710) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274571)

With local Chinese flair! Welcome to Spamhaus, vould you like der penis enlargement?

Re:Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (1)

benna (614220) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274616)

It sounds more like a bank to me.

Re:Spamhaus Opening New Branch in China (1)

Hello this is Linus (757336) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274957)

Sounds more like a ski shop, SkiHaus. http://www.skihaus.com/

Ha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274482)

...unwitting ignorance of the spam issues they have with the rest of the world... Yeah right. They're well aware when people complain, when a victim does a whois and it contains no usefull data. Their responce? Call the preson who compains a harraser. They don't care about netiquete, just making money. If only I knew all the China, North Korea, and South Korea IP addresses, so I could block 'em all, I would.

here ya go (4, Informative)

Brightest Light (552357) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274572)

have at it [blackholes.us]

Re:Ha! (1)

tangent3 (449222) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274868)

Err. yeah. And who will I complain to when I start emailing prospective suppliers I find on http://www.globalsources.com/ [globalsources.com] and find out that none of their replies are coming back to me?

Solly Cholly (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274492)

you gettum shut down quick-fast!!!

Eh? (4, Interesting)

gordgekko (574109) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274523)

For years, China's unwitting ignorance of the spam issues they have with the rest of the world has been a major stumbling block in the fight to control spammers who operate from the netblocks of foreign nations.

Unwitting...ha ha...good one. Nothing happens in China, especially in the high tech sector, without the government knowing about it.

steve did it for his car (2, Funny)

spir0 (319821) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274546)

now those spammers that he pisses off will be on the other side of the world and won't be able to smash his car up..

Do all bad things come to an end? (0, Offtopic)

suso (153703) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274565)

Things are looking up. Time for another tech boom.

Nice to see they have their priorities in order (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274566)

China has multitude of sickening human rights abuses and a totalitarian government, but hey, nobody cares about female newborn children being murdered because obviously recieving a few spam e-mails about enlarging your penises is a far more heinous crime than brutal suppression and censorship.
I'm sure I'll see you all at the China Olympics in 2008, where /. will be on hand to gladly report increased Linux use by the Chinese secret police in their torture holes.

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (1)

benna (614220) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274605)

Parent sounds harsh but definatly has a good point. Let's get out priorities straight.

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (2, Insightful)

Tuvai (783607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274649)

I agree, harsh words, but the arguement is sound. Surely a democratic government and more integration into the wider world would do far more to stop all forms of computer related annoyance and illegality in China than an single branch of Spamhaus.

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (2, Insightful)

Kiryat Malachi (177258) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274677)

Yeah, because there certainly isn't any spam sent from the US.

Wait. Yes there is.

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274815)

China (along with Mother Russia) is the emerging powerhouse of spam, piracy, and general internet fuckery. This is also true for South America (Brazillian hackers being the ones behind the attacks on Wil Wheaton and Microsoft lately). Starting to see a pattern developing here?
But regardless of this I wish Spamhaus the best of luck, just watch out for those tanks and concrete shoes guys ;)

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (1)

KanSer (558891) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274849)

A truly effective rebuttal. Torture -- Spam. The connection is oooh sooo clear. And since Americans do it it must be bad!

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274896)

And since Americans do it it must be bad!

You know, this would've worked much better if you didn't use spam / torture as an example...

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (2, Insightful)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274718)

Would you rather people work on minor issues only after the more serious ones have been resolved?

Good luck to you on that...you can start by solving the AIDS epidemic. I trust you'll report on your progress in timely basis.

Proletariat of the world, unite to kill anonymous morons

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (1)

Tuvai (783607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274795)

Would you rather people work on minor issues only after the more serious ones have been resolved? I would when solving the major issues allows the minor ones to be tackled far more effectively.

Re:Nice to see they have their priorities in order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274817)

Fuck that, I'll care when dead prisoners start clogging my inbox and female newborn babies start offering \/1.c0d3n through shady web sites.

"the scourge of junk email" (-1, Troll)

benna (614220) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274597)

I don't like spam but honestly sometimes people talk about spammers like they are some kind of terrorists. If you are so attached to your computer that you can't just delete your spam and get on with your life you have a serious problem. To me its like when someone DDoS's me I just laugh at them for thinking im hurt by not being able to use the internet for a couple of hours and walk away from my computer. There are definatly more important things to worry about.

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (5, Insightful)

GrpA (691294) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274655)

If that's all there was to it, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, when you miss a critical e-mail because you accidently delete it, or it gets deleted as a false positive, then you start to realise the real cost of spam to the recipient typically costs them more than virus and worm damage combined.

Then consider that if you have children, Pornographics spammers expose them to the worst of hardcore porn with utter comtempt for their safety and wellbeing.

Finally, remember that Spammers are *all* Sociopaths, protected for the first time by the size of the community, allowing them to abuse anyone without any fear of retribution.

For what it's worth, I personally see spammers as a bigger and more present problem than hackers ever were.

GrpA

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (-1, Troll)

jrockway (229604) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274830)

I think the first problem you need to solve is to get rid of that guy holding a gun to your head making you use email. You mean nobody's forcing you to use email?

Oh.

I think you need to get a grip on reality. Spammers are just people looking to make money. Yes their tactics are slimey, but I'd rather get a pornographic email than be murdered or raped! Please keep things in perspective.

Also, I think by banning SPAM we're heading down the slippery slope. How is banning SPAM any different than banning VoIP (see earlier article). How is it different from criticizing politicians? Why don't we just live in a nice brainwashed society...

I want to SPAM to go away. Unfortunately, I'd rather have a Free internet, so I'm willing to accept SPAM as the cost of freedom. There's always someone that wants to abuse a Freedom (think hate-speech); that's part of life.

So would you like a nice regulated, 'clean', turn-it-on-and-suck-down-our-content internet, or a Free one where you can do what you want?

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (4, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274669)

I think you are missing a few pieces here.

On an individual basis, who cares? It's just crap to delete.

Now, say you have an organization of a 1000, 90% of whom are your average users ( you want my email address? SURE THING ). 900 users getting spam in their mailbox? Where you would have needed a small 300mhz, 64mb system, now you need a dual 1ghz 1gig system and an admin to keep a constant eye on it.

And I'm not even going into the bandwidth and the spyware/trojan aspect of it.

End result: The side effects are spam are immense, financially.

But this isn't just a white collar crime. Take, for example, the pr0n spam. How many of those chicks do you suppose are 'legal'? Or how about prescription drugs, made available online? Or how about scams that rip off stupid old people ( I won a lottery that I never entered in a country I've never even heard of much less been to, and all I have to do to claim my reward is send them obscene amounts of money? Sign. Me. Up. ) of their retirements?

Spam and those that spam should be strung up by their ball sacks ( or tits. Let it never be said that I haven't discriminated against every single sensitive group ) and stones should be sold, 5c per pound.

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (3, Insightful)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274735)

Do please try to keep up with the issues surrounding spam and spammers.

They cause billions of dollars worth of damage every year. They are routinely violating numerous laws, yet they still operate freely.

The most recent development has been mass scale use of zombie networks for spamming and DDOS attacks against spam fighters.

It's also widely known that some of the viruses out there have been created solely to establish zombie networks for use by spammers.

Proletariat of the world, unite to kill spammers. The more painful, the better.

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (5, Insightful)

Richard_L_James (714854) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274752)

Like most things there is a balance in terms of how advertising is carried out. Proper commericial email advertising is definately here to stay. The problem is there are many so called "email advertisers" out to make a quick buck by any means possible.

In my book there is a huge difference between putting a advertising flyer through someones letter box vs attaching a flyer to a rock and smashing it through a Window. A proper advertising company will use the letter box. IMHO people like Steve Linford help ensure a balance.

when someone DDoS's me I just laugh at them for thinking im hurt by not being able to use the internet for a couple of hours and walk away from my computer

Your lucky to be able to do that. However many people rely on an Internet connection for business. For them walking away means no money is being generated and important customer customer communications are not being received. Like you most if not all of these decent people wish they could just walk away like you can but they are unable to do so.

Re:"the scourge of junk email" (4, Interesting)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274757)

Ever got an SMS to your phone from the restricted "emergency" account and been fumbling for 2 hours to find an internet cafe in a strange city to troubleshoot the unknown problem while it just appeared that the spammer launched a "dictionary attack" against your server? Sometimes it's "mark, delete" and 500 spams gone in matter of 10 seconds. Sometimes it's 2 hours of stress, fear, wasting a lot of money and nerves because of one spam.

Thanks to lovely spammers I can't leave my box for a month unattended. With 5 emails my mailbox would fill in half a year. With 100 spams daily this drops to weeks.

Nasty boy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274619)

Who cares about those slanty eyed freaks.

http://www.leja.net

A Short Lesson in Chinese Politics (4, Insightful)

dananderson (1880) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274640)

This all sounds very familiar. I had Chinese roomates back when I was a grad student. To improve their English, they got the People's Daily. It was written in broken English (at least then), but was very interesting reading between the lines. I would read about a major government initiative, say, to control water pollution. Great! Well, nothing would happen and a few months latter, I would read about another water pollution program (for example). This would repeat for other "good things."

So, the lesson is, the Chinese government leadership has very good intentions. However, they don't follow through or don't have the power to overcome inertia, bureaucracy, and corruption.

Re:A Short Lesson in Chinese Politics (1)

onya (125844) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274768)

sounds like governments everywhere. they're always annoucing that they're going to half the deficit or cure cancer or some shit. a few years down the track when it hasn't happened, they make excuses, announce some other scheme and get on with the business of making themselves and thier buddies rich.

Re:A Short Lesson in Chinese Politics (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274776)

I wonder. Are the intentions good, or is the intention simply to look like they have good intentions? My understanding of Chinese cultrure is that face is often more important than reality."Yes, we've got a program to clean the water for the villagers" * refills glass from bottle of imported mineral water * It's hard to take well meaning politicians seriously when they are so far removed from the problems and the people (This goes for everywhere, not just China).

Re:A Short Lesson in Chinese Politics (0)

Grail (18233) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275007)

The lesson I get from what you described is, the people are supposed to think what Big Brother Mao tells them to. This week we'll hear about how spam has been limited to 100 messages/week. Next week, we'll hear about how everyone is excited about the spam level being limited to 400 messages/week, the lowest ever since the war with Oceania started.

yeah, I'll send in my resume tomorrow (3, Insightful)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274661)

Seeing China take steps to help the world curb the scourge of junk email has me cheering all the way.

Now if we can only get them to do something about that pesky human rights problem, we'll be all set. You know, disappearing people, executing them for things like speaking against the government, no free press...

It'll be especially handy, since then if they need anyone from outside China to work in the office, people might actually want to, instead of being terrified of getting arrested for uttering the wrong word or failing to bribe the wrong guy, or telling someone about what's really going on in the world...and getting locked away in some (literal) shithole for the rest of eternity, with a little T&E(torture and execution) thrown in for fun.

Seriously, people- you go to China, there are lots of ways you can end up never being seen/heard from again. I wouldn't go there if you paid me to- I'd go to Iraq before I went to China.

Re:yeah, I'll send in my resume tomorrow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274704)

Wouldn't it be nice to see those spammer just dissapear?

And yes I have been China several times, but I would never consider going to Iraq at the moment.

Re:yeah, I'll send in my resume tomorrow (1)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274754)

Funny you should mention that...people've been talking about muslims dissappearing somewhere in the coast of Cuba for a few years. I wonder what's causing it?

Re:yeah, I'll send in my resume tomorrow (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274876)

Who cares about Muslims?!

Re:yeah, I'll send in my resume tomorrow (2, Insightful)

hughperkins (705005) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274983)

I'm in China now, reading and submitting to slashdot. As random info, I tried accessing the following sites, from a cybercafe here, with the following results:

reuters.com/news.html -> ok
www.iht.com -> ok
www.cnn.com -> ok
www.lemonde.fr -> ok

and you can see that slashdot is working

The real problem (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274705)

For years, USA's unwitting ignorance of the spam issues they have with the rest of the world has been a major stumbling block in the fight to control spammers who operate from countries where spamming for some reason is legal.

Awww, what a pleasant mental image. (-1, Redundant)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274738)

A bullet in the back of the spammer's head.

No, I know this won't happen. But the mental image is pleasant anyway.

WHO!? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274749)

Just who the hell do you think you are? Stop acting like, some kind of friggin star.

It's 2004 People (5, Insightful)

wan-fu (746576) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274751)

Hello? Reality to the readers of Slashdot. Every time China is mentioned in any /. article, China's human rights issues are immediately pushed to the forefront. I have serious beef with that in the form of two main issues:
1. The "get priorities straight" or "let's see China get some basic human rights" posts are more cliche and more often seen than hot grits and Natalie Portman (then again, I read at +1).

2. It's 2004 people, China is no longer the China of ten, even five years ago. China is one of the most rapidly developing nations and with each major technological push in the country, the people receive even more degrees of freedom. When I was in China just two years ago, I could talk to just about anyone about how they felt about the government. No discomfort, no "oh crap, is he secret police?" (I am Chinese, US Citizen, with Beijing Mandarin accent so it's hard to tell that I'm not from there)

Though Internet access is "spotty," e.g. no access to Google cache, etc. They have the Internet and most of it at that. Sure, things operate differently there and it's easier to find yourself in a jail cell. But there is no longer the mentality of "he critized the government, flog him."

Now, in the more interior/central parts of China, changes are slower than on the coast because of the slower pace of technological change there. But I can't emphasize this enough: China has made some serious progress from ten and even five years ago. Every year, China makes big strides. People have more freedom in their speech, press, and some places even have elections.

Also, since it's obvious that most people here aren't that knowledgeable about China (nor am I, but at least I know enough that it's not how everyone is describing it), another important thing to note is the changing of leadership. The old guard is slowly receding with China's new president (though obviously Jiang is still a big figure lurking in the shadows) and fresh blood in the Congress. New ideas and new leadership will only make the country better

Lastly, though we always hear about human rights violations every year, I feel (and this is just my opinion, no real facts here) that a lot of it is blown out of proportion. Not to say that it's okay, but that perhaps people should try to be less biased about it. I think that because people hear about these incidents in China, they automatically think, "Damn, that China, they'll never fix their human rights problems. They are always beating people and torturing them, etc." But now, put that in perspective of what happens in many other developed countries (US, Britain, etc.) Many people are unlawfully detained, or excessive force is used upon them, or they are mistakenly incarcerated. I think that if you took all the news stories about those types of events happening in the US, and said it happened in China, people would go nuts calling out for China to give their citizens "basic human rights."

Re:It's 2004 People (4, Insightful)

TheOtherKiwi (743507) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274821)

Mod me as off topic but the actual difference between China and the other nations mentioned is that other nations prohibit such violations - when they occur, it is against the will of the democratically elected government and hopefully the people that elected them. Unlike China where it is "legal" to do these things.

To get back on-topic, I think the article is a good example of how China is moving (slowly) towards more modern society even if the pace is not as fast as many would like - there are other factors to take into account...nobody wants a revolution in one of the world biggest economies...this is not good for anyone of us.

F***n Gong (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274835)

They have the Internet and most of it at that.

Can Chinese citizens visit pages about The Gong Show [thegongshow1976.com] , or is it considered too close to the banned F***n Gong organization?

Re:It's 2004 People (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274870)

All that, and you're still a chink.

Re:It's 2004 People (-1, Troll)

ydnar (946) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274895)

And you're still a coward.

Re:It's 2004 People (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274919)

Shut up, slanteyes.

On Human Rights. (5, Insightful)

Nailer (69468) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274992)

I live in Australia. We're apparently a US ally (more like a lackey), but even the most conservative (therefore pro-US) newspapers here reported the Iraqi torture as just that. The Australian, the nationwise conservative newspapaer in a country of 18 million that's one of your biggest allies, used the word torture to describe naked prisoners being badly beaten or having chemical light fluid poured through their anuses.

Which is why I find it amusing that on Nightly Business Report (a US financial news and current program that's on just before our own news) you're using the words 'suspected mistreatment' to describe something that's documented and not denied by anyone (the only issue seems to be whether the Geneva convention was officially supposed to be ignored).

So yeah, look in your own backyard before judging China. Since Sep 11, you're like a wounded pitbull attacking everything and anyone without thought. What on Earth does Iraq have to do with terrorism anyway?

(And yes, Australia has a pretty poor HR record in a lot of ways too - but I'm not denying that)...

instead of "Go Steve." (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274770)

shouldn't it be "Go China." ???

Taiwan! (1)

MaineCoon (12585) | more than 10 years ago | (#9274852)

It'll just be moved to Taiwan.

I'm sure then China will try to use that as leverage as to why they should get Taiwan back.

In Communist China they (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9274990)



In Communist China they eat rots and rots of lice.

/

China's Human Rights Abuses (3, Insightful)

puke76 (775195) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275002)

[Queue comments about China's human rights record from flag wavers]

I believe Amnesty International just gave the US a damning report on human rights abuses. Detention without charge or trial [amnesty.org]

It is hardly suprising that those in the US (land of the free etc) point the finger at China's human rights record, whilst ignoring human rights abuses in their own back yard (Guantanamo Bay, Iraqi prisoners, etc). I'd say our hypocracy (do as we say, but not as we do) and our naive view of the world ("good" vs "evil") has given us a lot of rope with which to hang ourselves.

Flag waving is not a sport
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