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AOL to Release Netscape 7.2 Based on Mozilla 1.7

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the aging-young-rebels dept.

Netscape 447

securitas writes "ZDNet's Evan Hansen reports that AOL will release Netscape Navigator 7.2 based on Mozilla 1.7 code this summer. The update comes a year after version 7.1 and after Microsoft stopped standalone development in Internet Explorer. eWEEK's Matt Hicks offers analysis of the new Netscape release, citing studies that say while Microsoft has a 93.9% browser market share and 87% of business users use IE, 25% still use Netscape and 11% use Opera -- the math works because people use multiple browsers. Hicks asks the question 'Is the Netscape Browser Being Reborn or Just Stabilized?' Hicks interviews several people in the know including a former Netscape engineer, an industry analyst, and Opera Software CEO Jon von Tetzchner."

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447 comments

LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275482)

LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE
Zeikfried - Gnaa, Nigeria.
In a world where one can get classed as +5, informative for simply being able to use google, and +5 funny for out and out slander against the Microsoft corporation, one could be forgiven for branding the elitist unfunny world of slashdot, and yes, the open source community as a whole, as a floundering stagnating mess.
But in spite of the high cretin concentration throughout open source, but all is not yet lost, for there is a small highly skilled team of individuals determined to utilise the full potenial that this community offers, the dynamic darkies of the Gay Nigger Associaton of America.

"This is degenerative behaviour, please stop." is the rallying cry for many in the OSDN camp (now a partly owned subsidiary of the KKK). But what IS LastMeasure? And how did it come to provoke such furious bouts of procrastination and anal masturbation among the forced celibates that bless our members with their -1, troll crowns? Reporter for Reuters Nigeria, and 4 time winner of the Golden Sphincter, Gary Niger, was sent in to investigate.
"I must say I was pleasently surprised", enthused Gary with his trademark lisp. "I expected a band of negro savages, or worse still, a sourceforge project. But what I found was a group of individuals determined to help spread their ideals of sodomy and niggerdom to the masses, and I must say, though it flys in the face of my trademark press neutrality, I was instantly hooked."
"But of course, in spite of my new found taste for the holy nigger seed, I would not deviate from my task of reporting the facts on LastMeasure. And it is, quite simply, nigtastic. Penisbird and goat-see have lovingly hand-crafted a javascript masterpiece, a triumph for capitalism, as readers of the communist open source "bastion" slashdot now have their gay porno viewing habits broadcasted to their colleagues and classmates, hopefully this will encourage them to finally stop eating and start working, and get their worthless jobs back from the curry eaters. Godspeed GNAA."

With LastMeasure (currently at version 3.3), the proud patriots of the GNAA have dealt a crippling blow to the communist practices of the google toolbar and it's anti-american ways of blocking the victory of capitalism and the free market over terrorism.

With LastMeasure, the dying world of the internet shock site has gained new vigour, allowing the benevolent rulers of our collective digital universe, Bob Goatse and Tubgirl, to be brought to many desktops throughout /.

Wherever there is an unpatched YaBB clone [xsorbit.com] fleecing money off ill-prepared webadmins. There is LastMeasure.

Wherever there is a poorly prepared IRC server being used as a shell for the important task of bringing camwhoring and masturbation [webcamnow.com] to the free world. There is LastMeasure.

Wherever GNU/Linux is not being used to its FULL POTENTIAL [bayou.com] . There is LastMeasure.

Wherever a +5 is struck on the head of those who would use it against the greater good [slashdot.org] . There is LastMeasure.

Whenever these ENEMIES OF FREEDOM gather, there will be LastMeasure, and the proudly gay negros of the Gay Nigger Association of America, your TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE.

FAQ:

Q. I am a proud supporter of open source, and would like to be a regular user of LastMeasure. However I can't seem to gain the full effect of your wonderful software, what could I be doing wrong?
A. While your zealotism is most welcome, it would appear that you are using the incorrect browser. Firefox and Opera are both major offenders, the GNAA recommend the Microsoft(TM) corporations Internet Explorer(TM) to halt the spread of communism, and to be able to use our software to the full.

Q. I am most impressed by your efforts to breathe life back into the rapidly ossifying world of Slashdot, and would like to help the LastMeasure cause. How may I go about this?
A. There are 2 ways.
Firstly, feel free to use one of the numerous LastMeasure mirrors: Located here [www.vyr.us] , and here [no-ip.org] .
Secondly, you are welcome to create your own LastMeasure mirror, by downloading the source from it's current location here [no-ip.com]

Q. What is the sick shit?! The moderators should delete this unwelcome vileness!
A. I'm sorry Mr Hitler, but your fascist pro-censorship stance is not welcome here or anywhere else in the free world, feel free to re-locate yourself to China, where you will be sure to find a style of government fitting to your INTOLERANT WAYS.

Q. I am a homosexual negro, and would like to join your cause, but I do not know how. Can you shed some light as to what criteria is needed to join your organisation?
A. I most certainly can, details are provided below.

About GNAA:
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gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
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If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ |
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | This logo is (C) 2003, 2004 GNAA [idge.net]
` _______________________________________________'

(C) GNAA 2004

Re:LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275530)

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Re:LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275558)

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Re:LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE (-1, Flamebait)

some1somewhere (642060) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275566)

Can someone enlighten me as to what the hell this crap is? Is it generated by software or something?

Re:LASTMEASURE: THE TRUE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275595)

It's Osama communicating in code. It doesn't take too much to figure out what he's saying. But I can't tell u what that is, because I might just get arrested for it.

grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275483)

grits are nice

Re:grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275535)

are they hot or not?

Re:grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275545)

As hot as can get, 0 kelvin.

Re:grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275569)

dumbass.

Re:grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275769)

PLASMA GRITS!!!1111111111

Re:grits (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275785)

0 kelvin is NOT plasma....

Release Cycle (3, Interesting)

BodyCount07 (260070) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275487)

I'd rather see a year between releases than a buggy browser.

Of course (4, Insightful)

Bill_Royle (639563) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275489)

Competition is always good. My main issue with Netscape is simply that it's not promoted like it should be... it's the same issue I have with people buying fast cars, driving in the fast lane, and going 55.

Not that Netscape's necessarily a Ferrari, but it's no Yugo, either.

Re:Of course (1, Funny)

farmhick (465391) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275501)

People around you drive 55 in the fast lane? Here it's more like 25. On the interstate. With light traffic.

Good thing I don't carry guns in the truck, or there'd be some dead slowpokes around here.

Re:Of course (2, Insightful)

jayminer (692836) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275717)

I think he/she says kilometers, and you say miles :)

Re:Of course (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275517)

No, it's not a Yugo. It's a Canyonero!

Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams
She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!

Mmm mmm! I do love a huge browser! Who cares if it can't start or stop particularly quickly?

Re:Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275577)

are you implying that netscape is fast? i must be using a different netscape (er, mozilla). of the browsers installed between my windows and linux machines, here are the browsers (in no particular order) that are faster than the firefox i have installed (text-based browsers omitted):

konquerer
opera
internet explorer (yes, i've said it).

here are the browsers i have installed that are slower than mozilla:

sprynet mosaic (yes, i actually have mosaic installed)
emacs

sounds to me like this ford taurus browser should get comfortable doing 55 in the second lane with the minivans, it's definitely no sportscar.

Re:Of course (1)

croddy (659025) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275614)

mozilla's more like an armored tank than a sports car.

Re:Of course (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275629)

This makes this move possibly dangerous for OSS, because they could fuck up netscape, and then when people hear "mozilla is the core technology behind netscape" they will vomit.

Firefox is good for this reason to keep the "brands" disabiguated.

And hell, all we need is firefox, thunderbird, a standalone html editor (wasn't lindows working on one derrived from mozilla?.. got it http://www.nvu.com/ [nvu.com] ) and xchat and you have a set of programs WAY more powerful than the mozilla suite. Put all the bookmark and settings "flat" files in the one place and have the binaries for windows and linux up front and you could run everything off a USB thumb drive.

I used to use my thumb drive for carrying firefox around, it was quite nice.

Re:Of course (4, Informative)

Zareste (761710) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275644)

I'm not sure where Netscape's strong-points are, but on a Mac (though things might be entirely different on Windows or others), it's one of the slowest browsers you can get, while IE for Mac goes much faster, and of course, Safari blazes past both of them with its RAM-based architecture (it doesn't waste time caching much of the web page to disk).

Although I've found IE for Windows to be incredibly slow with Javascript. I guess it's the plug-in use that determine most of the speed.

Re:Of course (1, Insightful)

j_yarish_kumar (773539) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275712)

Hey I find many Windows users are lazy .If they comes through other operating system such as Linux,Solaris ,They ask user friendlyness .I tell thrm that first try something new .Find their good performness. Mozilla and Opera are my Favourite browsers. Their fast ,tabbed browsing and many features are very attractive .Netscape also better when compared to Internet Explorer.

Why? (3, Interesting)

pracz (779590) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275496)

Sincerely, anybody knows what's the advantage of Netscape over Mozilla?? I'm confused...

Re:Why? (5, Funny)

Bill_Royle (639563) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275500)

With Netscape, you get AOL shortcuts on your desktop.

Wait, you said advantage?

Re:Why? (5, Insightful)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275505)

Netscape is a name that non-geeks have heard of.

If you ask some clueless decision maker if it's okay to deploy Mozilla, you'll probably get turned down on the basis of "I've not heard of that" whereas people who've used the web for a while, will have heard of Netscape.

My mother's heard of Netscape, she thinks she uses it every day, even though she actually uses Firefox.

(Sorry mum!)

Re:Why? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275527)

And for religious wackos who think anything is better than IE just because it doesn't come from Microsoft (the Great Satan) that's all it takes.

Why yes, that is about as rational as the Palestinians cheering the WTC falling!

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275740)

Actually most of them today would say "Netscape who"? Weren't they some sort of internet company?

The older over 30+ remember them but its like talking about WordPerfect to MS-Office users. They will just give you strange looks.

Sadly its viewed as dead which is correct. MS beat them via the distribution game. Netscape could not compete with something for free so they folded, got bought out and laid off their programmers while MS added feature after feature to IE.

Sad really.

Re:Why? (4, Informative)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275756)

I remember them as a browser company I'm 22. I just asked a 15 year old, they remember them as abrowser company.

I think you're underestimating the memories of people, perhaps. Either way, 'netscape' is a name people know; whether it's Coke or New Coke.

Boycott Coke! [colombiaso...ity.org.uk]

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275799)

They remember netscape. But its a negative imprint like WordPerfect is today. Those who have used it will give you funny looks or laughs if you talk about using it seriously instead of MSWord.

Re:Why? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275522)

Fuck Netscape. Is it better than Microsoft? I guess, but its still just about as bad, would you rather support a huge multi-national corporation called Microsoft, or a huge multi-national corporation called AOL/Time/Warner? How about use mozilla stand-alone? works fine for me.

I have to ask (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275498)

Why? What will Netscape 7.2 be that Mozilla 1.7 is not?

Re:I have to ask (5, Insightful)

Oxide (92607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275516)

Netscape has the commercial name and history that people and business know and trust.

Re:I have to ask (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275586)

I would not be too sure about that. I was a die hard netscape fan but versions 6-7 were just so bad, slow and unstable it put me off netscape completely.

Re:I have to ask (1)

JamesKPolk (13313) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275722)

Don't you mean 4-7?

Why bother? (4, Interesting)

welshsocialist (542986) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275510)

I'm glad AOL is doing this, but why bother? The Foundation (IMHO) is doing a great job in making Seamonkey, the Fox and the Bird, and Camino into products an end-user can appreciate and use.

Sorry AOL, you lose. For four years you had the chance to make Netscape into a valued alternative to MSIE. You failed. Now, roll over, get lost, or die.

Re:Why bother? (1, Funny)

ForestGrump (644805) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275531)

But if AOL died, I would have a hard time finding qualifying wives. You see, If she is an AOL user, DUMP HER! (unless she is good looking enough to compensate)

-Grump

Re:Why bother? (1)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275556)

This is why you're single, I feel.

Would you dump a girl for having a Walkman? An iPod?

AOL is the Walkman of ISPs, sadly.

Re:Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275570)

This is why you're single, I feel.

or it could be that he is 5'5" 350 and smells like spoiled milk.

Re:Why bother? (-1, Offtopic)

ForestGrump (644805) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275582)

nah, I'm currenetly interested in a girl who is an aol user.

How did I come accross her? my roomate went to the same hs as she did. Oh well, atleast we have good conversations and she has a college degree.

And right now im 20, so i'm not itching to get married. not looking for a wife as much as looking for potential candidates.

-grump

Re:Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275787)

so i'm not itching to get married. not looking for a wife as much as looking for potential candidates

Then why the fuck does your sig say "Still looking for a wife."? Dumbass.

Will real browser gain market? (2, Interesting)

bcmm (768152) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275519)

I have an irritating suspicion that the dummies (read unknowing spam proxy, worm infected, has a hotmail account and uses a 1GB RAM machine for emails and surfing - in short the majority of lusers) will continue to use IE until they get whatever they get in Longhorn O$, even if all new websites display funny.(They just resist change. I know people who would switch to Linux if the different window decorations didn't scare them.)

Re:Will real browser gain market? (4, Interesting)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275532)

Dummies?

I don't think it's really fair to put people down for not knowing stuff they shouldn't have to know.

Computers have become a consumer product, but unlike other consumer devices (TVs, VCRs, Microwaves) they can actually fuck things up if they do something wrong, or something different...

I think the idea of using a browser that didn't come with their computer probably scares a lot of people, much in the same way my friend's father wouldn't let him use 3rd party joysticks on his Atari VCS -- truely believed that anything different from the norm would break the unit; and he'd have to explain personally to Mr Atari why he DARED to break their lovely console.

Maybe what we need is someone to write a piece of spyware for IE, that installs Firefox and Thunderbird, removes IE and Outlook Express and changes the Moz icons to keep everything familiar.

Re:Will real browser gain market? (2, Insightful)

bcmm (768152) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275567)

I am not really blaming people for not knowing things, but for being scared of change. If some people got their way, they would still be on windows 3.1, or something older. Also, on second thoughts there is some hope, becuase if AOL is really behind their version of Netscape, a lot of the same users will probably switch over. Not for the right reasons, but because AOL will say that the browser they pretend they make will be the only one that works with "the Internet", which they also seem to claim they make.

Re:Will real browser gain market? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275579)

Computers have become a consumer product, but unlike other consumer devices (TVs, VCRs, Microwaves) they can actually fuck things up if they do something wrong, or something different...

...and that is why we need a license for Internet access, much like car licenses (or at least some form of mandatory education). If people actually learned to avoid stupid activities like giving out their passwords, replying to spam emails, or using Outlook without an up-to-date virus scanner, then the amount of spam and viruses on the Internet would dramatically drop.

Viruses can cause massive damage. They have shut down vital emergency services (like Britain's coastguard) and were even implicated in bringing Sydney's rail network to its knees a few weeks ago. Using the Internet incorrectly can cause massive damage. However, unlike public road use, there is no accountability and very little education about how to use the Internet - even though it is quickly becoming a vital public resource.

Those of us who began using the Internet ten or fifteen years ago had to learn about correct 'Net behaviour out of necessity. However, the number of clueless users these days is truly frightening.

Re:Will real browser gain market? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275616)

A license for Net Access...
Thanks, Stalin, but no thanks....Freedom means that idiots are allowed to be idiots.
In Soviet Russia, the Internet licenses YOU!..oh wait.. what about those mail-order brides.. DOH!

Re:Will real browser gain market? (4, Funny)

Troed (102527) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275635)

Freedom means that idiots are allowed to be idiots

FINALLY I understand the part about "land of the free" ...

Re:Will real browser gain market? (1)

MvD_Moscow (738107) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275589)

Yeah, that would be a nice spyware app! and the users wouldn't know the difference! However, jus imagine how much bad PR Mozilla Foundation will get!

Obligatory (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275666)

Dude, your URL says your from Russia.
In Soviet Russia, the Bad PR gets YOU!

Re:Will real browser gain market? (1, Interesting)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275674)

Computers have become a consumer product, but unlike other consumer devices (TVs, VCRs, Microwaves) they can actually fuck things up if they do something wrong, or something different...

Computers are NOT consumer products no matter how much the industry would like to pretend they are. They are complex programmable machines. If people want a consumer product then they would've bought any of the various web terminals that tried to come to market in the late 1990's like WebTV. They all failed because people want a computer, yet they also want to bitch when their complex programmable machine's complex operating system is difficult to use. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. If someone is uncomfortable using a computer without being handheld through it then they should go find another line of work or hobby. The absolute minimum requirements of a computer user should be capabilities to build a system from scratch, install an operating system, and do at least some fundamental systems programming... even friggin batch scripting. SOMETHING. Ignorant people should not be using computers!

Re:Will real browser gain market? (3, Informative)

Trailwalker (648636) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275737)

WebTv is still around as MSNTv. It is a profitable division of Microsoft. They are now beta testing a broadband version of MSNTv. This will eliminate one of the real problems with the appliance. The new units have many long desired feature such as USB support, etc.

MSNTv is the ideal way to access the net for the totally inept. No virus or worms to worry about. While not everything that a PC will do can be done with MSNTv, surfing and email are easily done.

Most WebTv owners believed and still do believe that development of WebTv suffered greatly after its acquisition by Microsoft. Being assigned to the MSN division was another blow.

Re:Will real browser gain market? (5, Interesting)

byolinux (535260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275745)

You're very wrong, and here's why...

Computers *are* consumer devices now, or at least can be. Not all of them are, but then not all VCRs are too.

Computers can be easy to use, people should certainly never need to build a computer from scratch, or reinstall their OS beyond putting a CD in the drive and turning the machine on, and as for systems programming - you're out of your mind. Perhaps you wish computers were some elitist, holier-than-thou priesthood, but I'm afraid you're wrong, wrong, wrong. WebTV failed because people want to do more than surf the web. They might have kids who want to do homework, or they may study themselves, or they might just enjoy exploring what a computer can do for them. So what if it breaks now and then? It should be easy enough for a user to restore.. perhaps we need machines with a read-only file system and all files to be store on a USB pendrive or something to assist this.

You come across as arrogant, but not stupid, so forgive me; but when you say ignorant people shouldn't be using computers, you're right. Sadly, you're the ignorant one.

Re:Will real browser gain market? (1)

WARM3CH (662028) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275692)

Personally I don't have any problem using IE and waiting for the next thing in Longhorn. In fact most websites are already optimized for IE and while most of the users are also using IE, I don't see why new websites would NOT be optimized for IE too. On my machine I have both FireFox and IE but frankly, I don't see any point using FireFox and mostly use IE. At least the sites that I usually visit render equally in both, well, asides those who only render correctly in IE. Personally, I don't care for tabbed-browsing and with google toolbar I have no problem with pop-ups. Interestingly, I like the Outlook 2003 more than others and together they work very well. For someone like me, who has no problem using what he already has, there is no motivation to switch to something else, even if the new software be free. And yes, I browse the web all the day so my experience is not limited to occasional use.

yeah but (0, Offtopic)

vincpa (646684) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275536)

http://juiceoftheday.blogspot.com/

Call me crazy... (4, Interesting)

T-Kir (597145) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275557)

...but why do I get the feeling that MS might be letting IE development slide deliberately in this manner.

They might be letting Mozilla and others gain a bit more ground so that in a couple of years, if the playing field became a little more level... then MS can play the "we've not got a monopoly on browsers" as extra leverage on governments/organisations who view them with more suspicion on this very issue (as well as other matters). It could be a more long term plan with them.

Again just my 0.02 british pounds.

Re:Call me crazy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275608)

M$ have the huge market share, they have no interest in seeing better web standard adopted as they want everything to move to their proprietry richclient .net format. If the web become more advanced it would offer a tougher competitor to M$ next vision, they want to hobble that competition before the battle even begins. Basically M$ want to kill the web as we know it. By allowing 95% of the worlds web experience to rot, then when they deploy the next big thing it will be much easier to get market penetration and take real control of things - Not this sudo standard support game they currently hate, but have to play.

Re:Call me crazy... (5, Insightful)

pubjames (468013) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275627)

They might be letting Mozilla and others gain a bit more ground

I doubt it. I think they've just stopped work on IE because they will have a completely new version in Longhorn. This new IE will include lots of new MS "standards", and they will really promote that heavily. They'll of course be competing with themselves again, trying to get people to move from the current IE to the new version, and so the more incentive people have to do that the better. In other words, it's actually in their interest to let the current version of IE slide so people will have more incentive to upgrade to the all new version in Longhorn.

Re:Call me crazy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275628)

0.02 British Pounds are called two pence, or tuppence. Stop translating for the Americans dude. They're used to searching the web anyway.

Re:Call me crazy... (1)

typhoonius (611834) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275742)

Why dump money into IE? It has a ridiculously large slice of the pie, and people will continue to use it, not because it has a superior feature-set to other browsers, but simply because it's there. It served its purpose, which was giving Microsoft control over internet "standards" and in general making it harder for people to get by without it (and therefore Windows).

Plus, any new features would have to be extensively tested; we're still seeing new IE exploits, and the thing's been stagnant for two or three years. One bug would affect millions and probably cost them an unreasonable amount to fix and support. Considering that any new features could barely extend IE's marketshare anymore at this point, it just isn't worth the trouble unless IE can give them more control somehow (see: tighter browser/OS integration in Longhorn).

I call you crazy (5, Interesting)

RoLi (141856) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275770)

The only reason why Microsoft doesn't continue development is because they are happy with the status quo.

Continue developing Internet Explorer would be BAD for Microsoft

You know why?

Because any change is a threat to the status quo.

Because if IE7 can handle transparent PNGs and lots of sites start to use it, millions of IE6 users will upgrade. And when they upgrade there is the danger that they might upgrade to Mozilla and not IE7.

The same goes for CSS2/3, SVG, etc.

Developing IE is not in the interest of Microsoft, they would be stupid if they would do it at this time.

But there are a couple of reasons why IE will lose its domination in the next couple of years: Linux is making inroads, Mac-users are switching to Safari, Playstation3 will probably run Mozilla and cellphones run Opera.

netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275562)

Now one must look at the facts here netscape is better than mozilla -- how do you benchmark such things, well 7.2-1.7=5.5, so netscape must be 5.5 times better than mozilla

Re:netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (5, Funny)

Elendil (11919) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275601)

Shouldn't it be 7.2/1.7=4.24 times better? See, we're already closing the gap! Go Mozilla!

Re:netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275604)

no it is not 4.24 times better, your calculations are misleading, but this is obvious for you are a mozilla supporter.

Re:netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (1)

Peter Cooper (660482) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275619)

Actually, since there was no Netscape 5, you could say 6.2/1.7 :-)

Re:netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (1)

Rhubarb Crumble (581156) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275655)

Shouldn't it be 7.2/1.7=4.24 times better?

No, it's a logarithmic scale... it's 2^(7.2-1.7) = 45.254834 times better!

Re:netscape is 5.5 times better than mozilla (1)

Alranor (472986) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275606)

^
|

Are there really people stupid enough to believe this quote?

Mod it funny if you like, but informative?

What the hell are the mods on today :)

Why replace the default browser? (5, Interesting)

anshil (302405) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275563)

Don't take me wrong I'm a mozilla fan and linux user.

But honestly if I'm running windows, what real motiviation is there to download a replacement browser when IE is already installed, and works?

I can't be mad at any secretary 'cause she uses IE instead of Mozilla/Netscape. Of course of political reasons she shouldn't, but practically?

If you sell an operating system, you practically just have the ultimate power to drive any other software out of business by bundeling and installing it by default.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275572)

Oh, you browse /. and you ask that question?

Does spyware and viruses up the kazoo strike you as a good enought reason? How about popups?

Here, have my share

Re:Why replace the default browser? (5, Interesting)

barks (640793) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275590)

Besides the fact that Mozilla was the first on the scene to include an option to block out pop-ups (I haven't bother to check has IE included that option yet?) that alone should be a reason for people to download a separate browser.

I laugh when I see a cheesy newbie ISP commercial that promotes "We have pop-up blocker technology!!!" Shit no kidding, so does my free Mozilla browser.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (2, Informative)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275654)

haven't bother to check has IE included that option yet

Allegedly it will be in XP SP2, released in the summer.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (1)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275793)

And for the folks not running XP...? Many businesses still use Win2k.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (1)

Tiram (650450) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275757)

Actually, I think Opera had pop-up blocking first. That and tabbed windows, built-in search ...

Re:Why replace the default browser? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275759)

It's been implemented in Service Pack 2, and is ON by DEFAULT!

Check out the RC's of SP2, it works perfectly.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (3, Insightful)

TwistedSquare (650445) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275598)

Tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking? And your last line is what is causing a lot of these anti-monopolistic lawsuits against MS.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (2, Insightful)

bcmm (768152) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275599)

I guess thats the diffence between windows and Linux, to some extent in windows, you get a browser, a media player and various other stuff (it is actually impossible to install winXP without IE, WMP, MS instant messaging, OE, various other stuff. the IM can be turned off, but not uninstalled). In Linux, you don't get these installed automatically, but you can chose any other player/browser yourself. You can see this as freedom, or just as more hassle than accepting the bundled stuff.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (1)

croddy (659025) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275653)

if you've ever installed Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, Fedora... or most desktop-oriented distributions, really... you'll know that a browser, video/audio players, IM, email, and various other useful applications are installed by default. you can use the bundled stuff, or you can (really) un-install it, or you can install something else.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (5, Insightful)

Feztaa (633745) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275723)

I think you've got that totally backwards.

The problem is that when you buy windows and you get all that stuff bundled with it, all that stuff is made by microsoft. When you get a set of linux distro install CDs, it comes with 10 browsers, 20 mail clients, a few media players, 5 instant messaging clients, and a million other things. The problem isn't that nothing is bundled with linux, the problem is that EVERYTHING is bundled with linux. But that bundling isn't bad, because each program that gets bundled has it's own independant development community that is just a loose group of individuals, and isn't even commercial to begin with.

When you install linux, the hassle isn't because you have to go find stuff yourself, the hassle is because everything is given to you and you have to choose what you want to use.

The idea here is that when MS bundles MS's own media player into windows, you have no incentive to buy any other media players, so the media player market collapses because nobody ever uses anything but WMP anyway. When Mandrake bundles xine, that doesn't illegitimately control the market because a) you can easily remove xine, b) Mandrake doesn't get any benefit from you using xine or a competitor, and c) competing media players come with the system too, so nobody is being locked out.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (4, Insightful)

pubjames (468013) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275633)

But honestly if I'm running windows, what real motiviation is there to download a replacement browser when IE is already installed, and works?

Security. I use Windows but I don't use IE or Outlook, because doing so considerably reduces my chances of security compromises.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (3, Insightful)

Ckwop (707653) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275763)

Except that's the problem.. IE is so deeply integrated into the operating system you have to use it somewhere. Help files being one example.. Various dialogs in XP use the html rendering engine from IE..

Don't think that you can get away from having to download the IE6 security patches.. because you really do!

I don't run linux personally.. but the lack of choice is annoying. I paid for XP pro and I should be able to remove components completely.

I love Firefox, for example, but I ended up uninstalling it because IE annoyingly gets in the way.

I don't feel as if I have much choice and that's annoying.

Cheers,

Simon.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (3, Insightful)

silentbozo (542534) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275661)

Every once in a while, you have to wipe a Windows machine, for whatever reason (usually, because the registry is so bloated with crap, it's easier to start over fresh.) At work we just finished doing just that - installing a fresh copy of Win2K (patches galore to get it from SP2 to SP4, joy...) The first thing I did (after installing a firewall, antivirus software, THEN jacking the machine into the network to download updates) was to install Firefox and set it as the default browser. Then, just for good measure, I hid IE (you can't remove Explorer, but there is an option to hide the toolbar icon and desktop shortcuts.)

Basically, Microsoft might have control over the machine after it ships from the factory, but only up to the point where it ends up in the local tech's hands. There, when you start customizing it for the end user, you can easily de-Microsoftize at the same time.

I can't be mad at any secretary 'cause she uses IE instead of Mozilla/Netscape. Of course of political reasons she shouldn't, but practically?

Well, if you use Firefox, you can be much more productive after customizing the browser interface, and tabs alone are a good reason to switch. There are some really nifty extensions for Firefox, like session save, where even if you have to quit the browser, upon relaunch it will re-open all of the browser windows that were up the last time you were running Firefox. Another great extension is Live HTTP Headers - I use that one quite a bit when debugging code from webservers that I administer.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (2, Informative)

sonicattack (554038) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275714)

Every once in a while, you have to wipe a Windows machine, for whatever reason (usually, because the registry is so bloated with crap, it's easier to start over fresh.) At work we just finished doing just that - installing a fresh copy of Win2K (patches galore to get it from SP2 to SP4, joy...) The first thing I did (after installing a firewall, antivirus software, THEN jacking the machine into the network to download updates) was to install Firefox and set it as the default browser. Then, just for good measure, I hid IE (you can't remove Explorer, but there is an option to hide the toolbar icon and desktop shortcuts.)

If this is a recurring task for you, I'd recommend using some partitioning imaging software to make a snapshot of the completed state of the installation, after service packs, extra patches, hiding the IE icons :), and other stuff. A reinstall is much simpler then, since it is just a question of restoring the partition image.

I bet there is some free Windows-equivalent of the "partimage" software out there.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (4, Insightful)

Flyboy Connor (741764) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275716)

Because IE is a big security hole, a lousy browser, and easily infected with all kinds of spyware.

A fairly computer-savvy acquaintance of mine recently called me to his computer because his homepage was constantly reset to easybiz.net. Ad-aware couldn't do anything. He started rummaging in his registry and managed to make his IE completely unusable.

So, how to solve this problem? Standard-Microsoft solution: uninstall IE? Ah, but there is the catch: you can not uninstall IE, it comes with the package. So, there is a choice: wiping the machine and start all over again, or, what I did: install Mozilla.

I was a bit relieved to see that while the IE penetration is > 90%, alternate browsers have about half the market. Now I finally know that I, too, am considered to be an IE user. There is one website I need to visit which requires IE, so I use IE solely for that purpose. I think that for all those people that use an alternate browser, that alternate browser is actually their primary browser. So IE's influence is dimishing. No wonder if you realise what a piece of %$#@ it is.

Re:Why replace the default browser? (2, Insightful)

Xrikcus (207545) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275747)

I suppose there's little incentive to TRY, but once persuaded to try, most people don't seem to go back to IE.

Those that do stick with IE don't seem to do it because it's better (largely, there are exceptions) but because they think it's the internet. When I can be bothered I'll go and delete my father's IE and Outlook icons completely...

"What's a web browser?"??? God help me!!

Re:Why replace the default browser? (2, Informative)

RoLi (141856) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275784)

But honestly if I'm running windows, what real motiviation is there to download a replacement browser when IE is already installed, and works? I can't be mad at any secretary 'cause she uses IE instead of Mozilla/Netscape. Of course of political reasons she shouldn't, but practically?

  • Mozilla is using HTTP 1.1 pipelining which is faster for sites with lots of images, especially noticable over dialup
  • Tabs
  • No security holes
  • Numerous extensions that make life easier

The Great divide. (4, Interesting)

Willeh (768540) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275564)

I think there is somewhat of a divide in the browsing market. On the one hand we have the swiss cheese solution, held reasonably firmly into place by a stream of FUD, corporate investments and scared PHB'S.

Next we have the webdevelopers that only care about IE compatibility. Some may care about other browsers, but usually as an afterthought.

Ofcourse this can be a right pain in the rear to fight this. The recent stream of exploits against various IE versions have started to create an anti- IE stance. What needs to be done is create the awareness that IE is unsafe, and now even abandoned by MS themselves until after their duke-nukem forever OS comes out. We(The people "in the know") must bring this our superiors attention that IE just isn't gonna cut it next year (or the year afterwards). It's not gonna be easy, but i'm sure we can have an impact.

Market forced change? (3, Interesting)

MrIrwin (761231) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275584)

Frankly I like Mozilla, and as it has now been my default browser for sometime I curse when I am forced to use infamiliar IE for certain websites.

I use tab browsing a lot (the firefox style where the new tabs are opened in backround), and after a search on google or a /. header, I will launch tabs on all relevant links and then browse sideways accross them. Links that do not work (including IE only sites) get passed over.

From the comments one hears around, it seems that a lot of people use mozilla type browsers in this way, and so will often pass over IE only sites even thougth they are included in the "93.7%". Webmasters will need to wake up to this.

Less IE specific content (which is allready rare....I just checked and I have not launched IE for over a week) means more browser choice. And let's face it, why on earth should everbody like the same browser!

Re:Market forced change? (1)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275685)

the firefox style where the new tabs are opened in backround

That's not really "firefox style" tabs; the "Load links in background" option has been in Mozilla for a long time.

yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275603)

but the whole project will tank if they decide to use that icon, because I almost had a heart attack when I saw it there. Jesus, this site needs a warning label or something, worse than the GNAA shock sites that was.

Firefow,Not Mozilla 1.7 (3, Insightful)

osewa77 (603622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275613)

Firefox is the popular Mozilla Browser, because it follows windows and IE conventions (e.g. shortcuts) and is fast (not bloatware). It does not try to be anything except a browser. It is the best at what it does. I'd want to suggest that if Mozilla has a real future, it's with Firefox!
___________
seun osewa [seunosewa.com]

Re:Firefow,Not Mozilla 1.7 (4, Interesting)

typhoonius (611834) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275706)

I'd want to suggest that if Mozilla has a real future, it's with Firefox!

I'd want to suggest that while Mozilla has a future, Netscape doesn't. Not as anything but AOL's occasional bargaining chip, anyway. Netscape is only valuable to AOL because the brand name is well known, which can help them do things like, as the article says, maintain an internet portal. Or offer a low-price alternative to its own internet service. Or get a settlement with Microsoft. To do any of that, they need to keep the Netscape brand alive, and that's all this release is really for.

Vanilla Mozilla is more stable and polished, which is probably more important to them than fancy new features at this point. Plus, the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach lets them tie in stuff like AIM more easily, and maybe the built-in mail client makes it an easier sell.

As for Mozilla/Netscape/XPFE/SeaMonkey/whatever, it's more of a proof-of-concept for XUL, Gecko, and all those other Mozilla Project technologies than an end product. Firefox, Thunderbird, Camino, and the like are the end products. I wouldn't expect it to go away for a while, even as Firefox 1.0 looms on the horizon.

Re:Firefow,Not Mozilla 1.7 (1)

alphan (774661) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275743)

really?

I honestly don't care about whether "options" is under tools or edit menu, though the latter seems to make more sense.

I love firefox but not because it resembles ie but because it is extremely usable unlike ie. Furthermore it isn't trying to make every single person in the world happy, unlike mozilla suite. Hence Mozilla become something that really deserves it's monstrous name with all those options, etc.

And finally, firefox follows minimal+modular approach which is the most important thing I would like to see in an application.

Netscape is dead - deal with it (2, Interesting)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275626)

The only thing that stops AOL dumping it altogether is the brand name and the portal, and those are fairly meaningless to people getting on the Internet within the last 5 years.

There's no reason why we should be bothered though - Mozilla is a worthy replacement, much more reliable and functional, and the lines of evolution are clear. You could go from NS 4.7 to Mozilla 1.6 and feel right at home. Even the much-derided Mail and News (which I always preferred to the OE mess) is almost the same. When IE gets pop-up blocking I'm still not going back to it.

Source Code (2, Insightful)

etnoy (664495) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275631)

I don't recall the MPL exactly, but isn't Netscape required to release the source code if this would become true?

AOL blew it (3, Interesting)

agwis (690872) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275640)

Netscape was my default browser until version 4.7 when things went horribly wrong. That version was very buggy and seemed like it was rushed out the door way too early, and I wonder if that was around the time AOL took over.

I wasn't using linux back then and so I, like many others, began using IE. It was far better than Netscape then and I stayed with it for awhile. I gave Netscape another chance when version 6 came out but it too was very buggy. The only plus I found with it was that it had excellent CSS support and I believe that was the first version to have tabbed browsing...which I've become addicted too.

That was when I discovered linux and switched to Mozilla, and Firebird (now Firefox). I've never turned back since. When Netscape 7.0 came out it didn't appear to have any new features that I remember but it did seem to clean up a lot of the bugs from version 6. At that point I realized that Netscape was a viable browser again but it was too late to win me back.

AOL should have really began pushing version 7 to the masses. For IE users not yet exposed to the greatness of Mozilla (or even Opera) Netscape should have started gaining a lot of ground back from IE. With tabbed browsing, pop up blocking, integrated email client, better CSS support, and arguably faster rendering speed it blows IE out of the water. 25% market share against Microsoft is nothing to sneeze at either and they had the pontential to gain more.

Now I don't know anyone at all that uses Netscape and whenever I'm asked to recommend a decent browser I suggest Firefox. AOL would do better to give up on Netscape and throw their support behind Mozilla instead.

It's too bad really, because Netscape played a huge part in bringing the www to the masses. I'd like to see it do well again but since AOL messed everything up with it I don't hold a lot of stock in its future.

-Pat

Webdevelopers (2)

freak_299 (758028) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275645)

The only problem i've ever had with mozilla is when ie sites load a ton of useless javascript and it freezes mozilla for a minute. i'm not too sure if this is common with other users though

Let me be the first to say... (2, Funny)

longbottle (537395) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275657)

Too little, too late.

Microsoft to port IE to Linux? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275676)

Even microsoft is going to port IE to linux they annouced yesterday [kingsofchaos.com]

still based on the ancient formula (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9275694)


strange brew [kombucha.org] , that's good for you.

Browser stats (5, Interesting)

eliasen (566529) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275703)

Where do they get the stats that IE is 93% of the market? That's never what I see. Admittedly, if you have a bad site with broken HTML that only IE will display, IE will make up the majority of your browsers. Everyone else just goes away. It's a Catch-22. But if you have a site that is standards-compliant, and platform-neutral, the numbers are much, much better. Here are my stats from the past month:
MS Internet Explorer 62.1 %
Mozilla 10.9 %
FireFox 9.3 %
Opera 4.5 %
Safari 2.9 %
Netscape 2.8 %
Unknown 2.2 %
Galeon 1.6 %
Konqueror 1.0 %
Firebird (Old FireFox) 0.6 %
Others 1.7 %

Re:Browser stats (2, Interesting)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275746)

Maybe you're right. Stats from my XHTML-strict site:

MS Internet Explorer 56.4 %
Mozilla 25.6 %
Opera 5.4 %
Netscape 4 %
Safari 3.4 %
Konqueror 1.7 %

Personally, given that the site is an open-source software site, I find the greater than 50% share of IE depressing.

Re:Browser stats (2, Insightful)

Malc (1751) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275764)

I don't have access to them right now, but our Web Trends report looks nothing like that. IIRC, it places IE at 98-99%. Perhaps it's to do with your content more than anything, just as ours is more likely to attract Windows users.

Re:Browser stats (3, Insightful)

Aneurysm (680045) | more than 10 years ago | (#9275765)

Surely you get a lot of hits from people seeing your webpage address advertised here on Slashdot with every post you make. This means that you're going to get a larger amount of "geeky" people who use all manner of weird and wonderful browsers. It's a slightly biased list of stats. I think the stats posted elsewhere in this discussion are from larger sites with a less biased user base.
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