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Quick Fixes For Those Pining For A 6-foot Cabinet

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the not-the-ones-with-velvet-and-brass dept.

Emulation (Games) 131

Joe Barr writes "Over at Newsforge [part of OSDN, like Slashdot], there's a look at the arcade/system emulator movement and two Linux-based Live CDs designed to put you in touch with your inner Donkey Kong: KnoppixMAME and AdvanceCD. I'm happy with gameplay under both. I only wish I knew more about the legality of using them." S!: We previously covered release details on KnoppixMAME and AdvanceCD last year, and also mentioned the categorically legal, if limited StarROMs site on Slashdot Games a few weeks back.

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131 comments

Space Invaders... (5, Funny)

Kjuib (584451) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310569)

here I COME!!! I love being able to count the pixels as they disappear when my 2x16 lazer almost makes contact...

pining ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310577)

Is that supposed to be some sort of lumber pun?! Well its not very funny !

Donald Duck (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310585)

Donald Duck is going to have a SCREAMING ORGASM for his FR1ST PS0T!!! OMTG OGM OMG OMG ITS SO HOT HOT hot 111 h01 w007!!!

YOU FUCKING FAIL IT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310619)

Sir, I am afraid that you fucking fail it. In future you may find that Daffy Duck gives a more effective Screaming O-----m for you fristy psot.

Thankyou, and Have a Nice Day [tm].

Xenophon, Renegade Master of DomKore

[ DomKore :: At the Game of the Head :: We own the game nigs ]
....[ Fuck you, fuck your momma, fuck your whole clique, ]....
....[ Matter 'fact fuck every nigger that you' down wit. ]....

DOMKORE ANNOUNCES NEW GOVERNORSHIP OF /.TROLLING (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310590)

DomKore Announces New Governorship of Slashdot trolling by new Early Post Dominance

Today, trolling group DomKore, believed to be a group inspired by TrollKore in their radical opposition to the GNAA [www.gnaa.us] announced that they would be starting a new campaign of Early Post Dominance to enforce their Iron Grip over the already faltering GNAA.

Slashbot reporters gained exclusive permission to interview Xenophon, the Renegade Master of the DomKore trolling group on his line on the EP Dominance, TrollKore, and the GNAA

SLASH: So why have you chosen Early Post dominance as the vehicle for your message.
XENOPHON: Well, we wanted to avoid potentially difficult First Post trolling which risks 'YOU TOTALLY FAIL IT' rebuttals as well as being anti-social in depriving more on-topic trolls of valuble FP real-estate. However DomKore's high quality of EP will always aim at the first five posts for high visibility.
SLASH: We're guessing from your name that you are TrollKore supporters. Is this so, and why then have you chosen not to join forces with TrollKore, rather than cause further problematic splintering of the Troll Community?
XENOPHON: Primarily yes, we do support many of the same principles as TrollKore (and MooKore), namely radical opposition to the GNAA. What sets us apart though is a desire to radically alter the landscape of trolling by innovative content and trolls which surprise and amuse -- further contrasting with the GNAA's redundant and predictable 'Gay??, Nigger??, Gay Nigger??' style of troll.
SLASH: So could you explain in layman's terms how you view the *Kores, versus the GNAA?
XENOPHON: Well, in terms that a fuck tard Slashdot audience can understand: *Kore is like *NIX, and the GNAA is like M$. Consider this comparison with the development of Operating Systems.
[TrollKore // AT&T UNIX ] (Original Hardcore OS)
``-[MooKore // BSD] (Modern Free UNIX Derivative)
``-[DomKore // Linux] (UNIX-inspired Free Kernel)

[GNAA // Windows 95 ] (Pile of shite perpetuated only by ignorance)

Thankyou, and Have a Nice Day [tm].

Xenophon, Renegade Master of DomKore

[ DomKore :: At the Game of the Head :: We own the game nigs ]
....[ Fuck you, fuck your momma, fuck your whole clique, ]....
....[ Matter 'fact fuck every nigger that you' down wit. ]....

Sweet! Now all I need is... (5, Funny)

ErichTheWebGuy (745925) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310598)

an old DDR cabinet [coinopexpress.com], KnoppixMAME [sourceforge.net], StepMania [stepmania.com], and a few days of free time. Then I will never have to leave the house again!

Just in case the server crashes and burns... (3, Informative)

mirror_dude (775745) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310601)

Just in case the server crashes and burns (like they usually do),I have put up a mirror.
The mirror of http://entertainment.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid= 04/05/14/1441241 is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_616/entertainment.n ewsforge.com/article.pl%3fsid=04/05/14/1441241 [demonmoo.com]
The mirror of http://www.starroms.com/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_616/www.starroms.co m/ [demonmoo.com]

Stepmania (1)

The Spoonman (634311) | more than 9 years ago | (#9313346)

What is it with people who publish open source software who think the most important thing to put on the front page is "what's new with the software" rather than "what the software IS"? I had to dig around to finally find the Introduction page, I shouldn't have to.

Quick Fix For Droppings On Your Shoe (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310607)

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Have you ever stepped in DOG DOO-DOO [k9treat.com]

Are you MAD? [apa.org]

Do you KILL DOGS? [friendsofdogs.net]

Are you a MAD DOG KILLER? [k911emergencies.com]

If you answered "YES" to any of the above questions the ECFA (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) is for you! Why change your sexual lifestyle or change your skin color to join an EVIL ORGANIZATION when you can simply INCREASE OUR SUPPLY OF O2! Did you know that DOGS turn BENEFICIAL O2 into CO2 simply to gain their energy to bark, drool, and howl? They ACTUALLY BOND their carbon TO OUR OXYGEN SUPPLY!!! One dog can waste 2 moles of O2 PER HOUR! This country has MANY UNWANTED, ABANDONED DOGS that WE ARE PAYING MONEY TO KEEP ALIVE. We are FEEDING them our food supply while making the homeless STARVE! By using a Dog Killing Gadget, a dog can be turned into beneficial food, helping us all. We let children go hungry yet feed our **UNWANTED** dogs like royalty.

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WANT TO SUPPORT THE ECFA? Simply form picket lines around your nearest humane society or gain a FIRST POST on /. to join our club. If you have MOD POINTS and would like to support the ECFA, moderate this post UP.

==This post brought to you by proud dog killer PickaBu on EFNET.

Xbox MameoX (5, Interesting)

SpudGunMan (456448) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310617)

i use a hacked xbox in my cabinet boots faster then the Knoppix solution and you dont need a keyboard at all.

MAME (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310624)

MAME...which lets you do important things like play Donkey Kong.

What the? I didn't know such things were of such importance to such people as to identify them as important!

I am NEVER playing Donkey Kong again!

What is everyone's fav game (2, Interesting)

bevisthegod (568636) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310625)

I assume everyone has a favorite arcade game from their childhood. I was wondering which games people have picked up recently and still, enjoyed playing (pong just isn't as fun as I remembered years ago).

Recently, I have been playing Cleopatra Fortune and Guwange... legally of course...

Re:What is everyone's fav game (1)

red0x (514338) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310849)

I love the old Sega classic, streets of rage. This may seem modern to you, but it is towards the beginning of my time. ;)

Re:What is everyone's fav game (1)

Mr. Hankey (95668) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311762)

FWIW, SOR is a console game, not an arcade game. Still, it was a great game for its time. Streets of Rage II is IMHO at least as good as the first, though I'd avoid the third. They didn't get Yuzo Koshiro to do the music on that version, and it shows. The rest of the game didn't feel quite the same either. Even in my day, it was just a rental.

Re:What is everyone's fav game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9313110)

One of my old favorite is Rygar, arcade version. None of that NES questing crap, none of that PS2 3D crap.

Set the game to hardest, then good luck getting to the end of that one!

Yeah, Mame on LiveCD with no Roms (0, Troll)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310626)

"...includes three truely free games.."

Huge bonus there. Maybe they will start shipping with nethack and you got yourself a whopping 4 games to last your 3 minutes tensionspan for another 2 min.

Wow (5, Interesting)

Vaevictis666 (680137) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310638)

not even the article writer can RTFA before it makes it to slashdot...

I only wish I knew more about the legality of using them.

...

The software for most of these arcade games is not free. If you do not have a legal license for a game you are playing under MAME, you are infringing on someone's copyright.

I think that about sums it up right there. Yes, most MAME use is illegal. No, they probably won't call you on it for the older games. They might call you on it for some of the newer ones that are still making money in the arcades, but they'd need to catch you first, which is pretty hard if you just do it at home.

You don't (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310639)

I only wish I knew more about the legality of using them.

Trust me, you don't.

A thought (4, Interesting)

Nicholas Evans (731773) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310642)

If one downloads old arcade games which aren't really distributed by the manufacturer anymore, who are you hurting by using them? Sure, it's a copyright violation, but is it really hurting the distributor, since they aren't even trying to make money off of it? Copyrights are to protect innovation, but is there a point when the innovation should be freed for everyone to be...innovated by?

Re:A thought (2, Insightful)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310995)

Sure, it's a copyright violation, but is it really hurting the distributor, since they aren't even trying to make money off of it?

I couldn't agree with you more. I've always felt that the term on software should be shorter then the term of other forms of published works simply because the only way to access abandoned media is by getting a copy from amature libraries. I remember actually *trying* to get a copy of Agent USA or M.U.L.E the legit way in the 21st century. It can't be done.

Re:A thought (3, Insightful)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311192)

They'll come back at you with the argument that every minute spent playing a free game of Pac Man or Bump N Jump is a minute spent depriving their currently-marketed games of revenue.

Re:A thought (1)

DragonMagic (170846) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311284)

No, Copyrights are to progress useful arts; that is, they guarantee artists and authors limited monopolies on distribution and derivations, in exchange that some day they will be given to the public domain.

You're thinking of patents for innovation. Copyrights and trademarks aren't for innovation.

But are you hurting anyone? No. Would it really hurt to ask the companies? No. Try it some time.

Re:A thought (3, Insightful)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311330)

Yes, it's illegal. I agree with you, though. At netmar, we had some guy who set up basically an abandonware server. We noticed it because of the huge jump in bandwidth, and we looked - all the stuff was like DOS versions of lemmings and stuff.

So, we called the feds (who have a computer crime department), and we started trying to get in touch with publishers and distributors for the games.

Know what?

No one cared.

We're still waiting for a call back from the feds, 2 years later. They told us to fill in a submission form on a website, which we did. And we never got any callbacks from any distributors or publishers either.

This is what makes you jaded to things like abandonware. If the company still owns the copyright, but isn't selling the product, what do you do? What if the company is unwilling to protect their copyright? What does that say about the laws?

~Will

Re:A thought (1)

el-spectre (668104) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311405)

Actually, the question is, what does the law say about someone who is unwilling to protect their copyright.

The answer is that they lose it. I'd imagine that your abandoneware fellow would be OK in court at this point.

Re:A thought (1)

MagicDude (727944) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311971)

The old lemmings was made by Psygnosis, which was bought by Sony in 1993. (Sony bought the US part of Psygnosis, Edios bought the European part of the company in 1998). If you had reported to Sony that someone was giving away "Lemmings" and "Oh No! More Lemmings!", Sony still probably wouldn't care, but they would at least give a response along the lines of "Thanks for the heads up, we don't care". More likely, it's the FBI who doesn't really care if someone has a contraband copy of Commander Keen or Brix, and isn't going to take the time to track them down where the cost taking this to court is 100000x the cost of the software.

Re:A thought (2, Funny)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 9 years ago | (#9312477)

Yeah, and that's another problem with the whole reporting copyright violaions... consolidation of video game holdings. Think how many titles are owned by Electronic Arts, or Atari. If we went to atari and were like, someone's distributing xYZ game, i'm sure the most common reaction would be, "Do we own that?!"

Re:A thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9313057)


i didnt realise that WebHosts where cop's too, you could of just kicked the jerk out without involving the police but obviously thats too easy

uggh snitches

Re:A thought (5, Insightful)

dirk (87083) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311376)

While in general you aren't hurting anyone, this isn't always the case. Sometimes these games are bought by companies who plan to release an update version, including a version of the original as well. Or they are planning to release a compilation of old games. There are at least a few compilations packs that include things such as Pacman, DigDug, Asteroids, etc. So while you may think you never hurting anyone, that isn't always the case. Just look at the current "control games" that have become fairly popular. There is an Atari 2600 one with 10 or so old Atari cart games on it and an arcade version with 6 old arcade games. Certainly your hurting the sales of these type of devices.

Re:A thought (1)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311646)

Ok first off, mods are on crack yet again.

The market that the Control Stick all in one is targeted at is completely different than what we're discussing here. Nobody who wants to build a full size MAME cabinet and wire the damn controls is gonna look twice at stuff like this.

Secondly, what an earlier post said about contacting distributors/trademark holders is true. A boatload of these companies died long long ago.

My point is, if you're playing the games at home on your own MAME cabinet, and you're not charging your buddies money, who cares.

Re:A thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9312864)

Just look at the current "control games" that have become fairly popular. There is an Atari 2600 one with 10 or so old Atari cart games on it and an arcade version with 6 old arcade games. Certainly your hurting the sales of these type of devices.

Well first of all how are they getting fairly popular if we are hurting the sales of them? Secondly, the people in the target audience for those multi-game controllers are probably not the slashdot crowd.

Re:A thought (1)

2057 (600541) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311456)

and this is why copyrights were set to expire, and become *In loud demonic voice* PUBLIC DOMAIN

Pining for a 6 foot box? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310647)

Me, I'm pining for the fjords!

What kind of talk is that??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310676)

Look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got him home?

6 foot cabinet? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310671)

Just wait about 50 years or so, and you'll get your very own 6 foot pine cabinet. It'll even be six feet under too! Of course, you'll have a bit of a challenge playing games by then, but hey...

Pining for the Fjords... (-1, Offtopic)

billstewart (78916) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310854)

Rats! Somebody made the obvious joke before I did, so I'm having to pull out a second-string obvious joke in response :-)

Re:6 foot cabinet? (1)

cujo_1111 (627504) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311039)

I am too tall for a 6 foot long cabinet, you insensitive clod!

They will have to fold me up...

Re:6 foot cabinet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311101)

just run yourself through the Folding@Home project... yeesh, what fucking shit

6 foot game cabinet? Screw that! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9313153)

Empty out all those computers, joysticks, and buttons. Replace it with a lighting and ventilation system and a hydroponic reservoir, then plant some kick ass marijuana in there.

You can smoke the marijuana yourself, or trade it to drug users for their video game machines. A stoner will trade you an original Atari 2600 and 100 games for a single dime bag. You can't go wrong!

If you are really pining for a 6ft arcade cabinet (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310678)

There is one site that tells you EVERYTHING you need to know.

www.arcadecontrols.com

Enough of these side articles about mame.

3.NLARGE Y.0UR C.A.B1.NET (5, Funny)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310684)

Are y.ou D1S5AT1S.FIED with the S.1.Z.E. and G.1RT.H of you.r C.AB1N.ET????

We can help, with our A.11 N.A.T.U.R_AL H.3RB.AL F.ORMULA!!!

C.LI.C.K H.3RE [slashdot.org] for r.3M0.V.@.L

"Touching your donkey kong" (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311370)

On a related note, here's a quote from the summary:

"Linux-based Live CDs designed to ... touch ... your ... Donkey Kong"

I may be a Linux geek, but I've never needed Linux to help me do that.

Who needs a stand-up cabinet? (5, Interesting)

ranger714 (580794) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310703)

I'd be looking around for an old-style sit-down cabinet, and then get a copy of the old "Hard Drivin" [klov.com] or "Race Drivin" [klov.com] game...

Vector graphics, decent force-feedback and an operable clutch, which can really show you who knows how to drive. The physics were pretty realistic, even allowing for throttle steering.

Of course, it only came with a four-speed transmission, but it's better than the contemporaries, which had no clutch and paddle shifters, with laughable physics.

Re:Who needs a stand-up cabinet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310884)

I completely agree...ahead of its time. BTW: Hard Drivin and Race Drivin are raster games not vector.

Re:Who needs a stand-up cabinet? (2)

Quarters (18322) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311061)

Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' weren't vector based. They used polys with dithering for shading and psuedo-transparency.

Not to troll.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310713)

But why is KnoppixMame so big? AdvanceCD is around 10 MB, while KnoppixMame is around 116 MB, leaving a lot less room for games.

Re:Not to troll.. (2, Interesting)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311703)

I've tried both and AdvanceCD rocks. I jammed 4.5 gigs of roms onto a DVD...took forever to build the image but after I burned it, I get sweet gaming anywhere I can find a PC with a DVD-Rom. The exception is my laptop, which doesn't appreciate the modes for the display (framebuffer I guess).

Otherwise, AdvanceCD rocks. You should try it if you're considering trying something like this.

Re:Not to troll.. (3, Informative)

drfreak (303147) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311944)

A lot of space is sacrificed for the eye candy of using X whereas AdvanceMAME uses svgalib. They are certainly more "Advanced" than me in that respect. But with DVD burners getting so cheap, the difference in space between the projects shouldn't be a factor in deciding which to use. If you plan on using an arcade monitor, go with Advance. If you want a nice graphical wizard to remaster a CD with roms on it for you, my project might be a better choice.

StarROMs is more than just limited. (3, Insightful)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310727)

StarROMs is a fucking joke. Let's not beat around the bush. If they really want to combat piracy, then they need a much, much bigger selection. A more sane pricing scheme (e.g. a sliding scale based on the age of the ROM-- 1970s and early 1980s ROMs like Pong and Pac-Man for $5, late 1980s ROMs for $10, early 1990s ROMs for $15-- with all prices decreasing as time goes on) would help too.

Re:StarROMs is more than just limited. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9310827)

StarROMs is not the only way to get legal ROMs for MAME, HanaHo [hanaho.com] distributes Capcom games with their products, and you can get some SNK games like the Metal Slug series at Play-Asia [play-asia.com]

(The site says they are ports, but I know for a fact that at least Metal Slug Collector's Edition includes the ROMs for the first three Metal Slug games)

Re:StarROMs is more than just limited. (3, Informative)

mlyle (148697) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310933)

a sliding scale based on the age of the ROM-- 1970s and early 1980s ROMs like Pong and Pac-Man for $5, late 1980s ROMs for $10, early 1990s ROMs for $15-- with all prices decreasing as time goes on)

All the starroms games cost less than $6 in credits. And many are only $2. (There's better deals if you buy more credits at once, too.

In general, new titles are more expensive than older ones on starroms (with the exception of some early classics like Tempest for $5.50).. They do only have the Atari catalog, though.

StarROMs is a good start (4, Interesting)

siredgar (144573) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310936)

StarROMs [starroms.com] is a good start. 51 games at an average cost of $2.15 each if you buy them all is more than reasonable. If StarROMs proves commercially successful, you can reasonably hope that other ROMs from other vendors will become commercially available as well. Trashing StarROMs because of their limited selection is like slamming a baby learning to crawl because they aren't walking and running yet. Give it some time and see what happens. I know they are looking to expand their offerings but they have an uphill battle convincing copyright owners to let them. Note that StarROMs isn't out to combat piracy. They're out to make money. That they convinced Atari that they could do so while combating piracy is what I hope other vendors take note of. If it takes off then it's likely that competitive forces will come into play similarly to what's happening in the MP3/digital-format-of-your-choice music industry today. Perhaps a competitor will open up shop with the pricing scheme you envision and the selection you want. So I wouldn't call StarROMs a joke by any means -- I'd call it a good first step. I personally hope they make a killing so they can grow like crazy and offer more consumer choices... --- saint Build Your Own Arcade Controls FAQ http://www.arcadecontrols.com/ Project Arcade http://www.projectarcade.com/

Re:StarROMs is more than just limited. (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311545)

I suspect that part of the problem is that arcade companies are still making money of old stuff (e.g. the various classic game packs for PS2/XBOX/GC/GBA/etc or the arcade machine with mspac/galaga or the TV joystick thingos)
Hence, having the old games downloadable = less people buying the new stuff.

Also, they would be reluctant to allow this because they have no control over the roms being distributed or the emulation engine.

Way overestimating the price! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311939)

More like 5 cents, 10 cents, and 15 cents. These games aren't worth that much money. It's bad enough that companies they can legally steal these games from you, but to charge $5 for Pac Man? I don't think so.

Re:StarROMs is more than just limited. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9313168)

Yes, they need a bigger selection, but you need to learn how to do 2nd grade math, unless you are claiming they need to raise prices to combat piracy.

Here's My MAME Cabinet (2, Informative)

nuxx (10153) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310734)

If anyone is interested, here [nuxx.net] are a bunch of photos I took of my MAME cabinet when I built it back in the summer of 2000. The pictures are kinda crappy, and were all taken at my parents house, but they show a full stand-up MAME machine, with a cabinet made competely from scratch. The cabinet was patterned off of a Data East Robocop / Bad Dudes cabinet, but made a bit deeper to accomidate my monitor.

Re:Here's My MAME Cabinet (4, Funny)

LMCBoy (185365) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311100)

Your poor mother...she's got "Bad Dudes" right next to her china hutch!

Re:Here's My MAME Cabinet (1)

DJayC (595440) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311624)

Where did you get the piece that the speakers mount on? My cab has been unfinished for a couple years because I can't find a way to close the gap between the top (where the marquee should be) and the monitor bezel.

Re:Here's My MAME Cabinet (1)

identity0 (77976) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311906)

Wow, that's cool, I wish I had the time/expertise to make something like that. That said, the real thing is even cooler - one of my friends has an old NeoGeo cabinet, and that thing is built like a fricking tank. I had to help move the thing, and it weighs about as much as a fridge, if not more. The part around the coin deposit is metal, and the rest feels like hardwood. Man, they don't build 'em like they used to...

Incidentally, the guy has MAME on his computer despite having the real thing. I wonder if having the actual ROM cartridge makes it legal to have on the computer?

Mame use shouldn't be illegal. (5, Insightful)

ajutla (720182) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310759)

In a perfect world, I mean. I use MAME, and I use it to play really old arcade games. Yes, I realize that this is almost certainly illegal--Nintendo would probably sue my ass off if they knew that I played Donkey Kong with my setup. But why? Look at it realistically; Donkey Kong is freaking old. Even if Nintendo were to rerelease it for, I dunno, the GBA or something--hell, they might have already done this--how well would it actually do? Most people who play games today would take one look at it and say "Eeew! That's crap!" based on the graphics / difficulty and go away. The only people who would actually buy a rerelease of Donkey Kong would either be people who played it in arcades long ago or those or who, like me, played it via MAME. MAME is therefore actually a good thing--it spreads around old games and gets people excited and interested in them, thus boosting sales if those games are ever rereleased. Changing the subject slightly, look at Super NES emulation. Tons of people use things like ZSNES to play old RPGs like Final Fantasy VI. When Square actually did rerelease that game, it sold pretty well, but it arguably would not have sold nearly as well if the ROM trade hadn't made games like that popular among "pirates." Hell, I played that game on an emulator and then gladly purchased the rerelease when it came out; had I not played the game before in ROM form, there's no way I would have done that. Emulation, especially for older/obsolete game platforms, is a Good Thing.

Re:Mame use shouldn't be illegal. (3, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310815)

As far as I'm concerned, playing roms older than 13 years is fully justified and should be legal. The original copyright term in this country (USA) was 13 years; after that, everything went into the public domain. This was further backed up by the Constitution, which said Congress could enact legislation to protect the arts for "a reasonable term". Only lately has Congress passed laws extending this term to infinity (every time Steamboat Willy is about to fall into the public domain, Disney gets Congress to pass another law extending copyright). The way I see it, these copyright extension laws are all unconstitutional. Therefore, if you're feeling guilty about playing a game that's more than 13 years old and not paying for it, don't.

Well then wuit pussyfooting around. (2)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311167)

Setup a high profile site that sells these ROMs. Do a little civil disobedience. Get a court to declare the law unconstitutional and you're all set.

Except that well if they don't your screwed.

Surprise! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311085)

Even if Nintendo were to rerelease it for, I dunno, the GBA or something--hell, they might have already done this--how well would it actually do?

It will be in stores on the 3rd. [ebgames.com]

As for how well it will do, the Super Mario series for GBA still sells very well, so who knows.

Re:Surprise! (1)

ajutla (720182) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311331)

It will be in stores on the 3rd.

Wow. Although I must say, I had a sneaking suspicion...

Re:Mame use shouldn't be illegal. (2, Funny)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311310)

Look, Linux is freaking old. Just let anyone steal the code.

Re:Mame use shouldn't be illegal. (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311784)

As long as they steal the 13 year old code and not code derived from it, who cares? I think it would accelerate much cultural and technological innovation if all intellectual property had such limits instilled in their usage. Remember the old adage, "Why reinvent the wheel."

Re:Mame use shouldn't be illegal. (1)

chromatic (9471) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311787)

Go ahead and take the code from 1991. Next year you can have the code from 1992. In 2017, you can have code written today.

(Please note that I don't hold copyright over any part of the Linux kernel.)

iGame Arcade Store (4, Interesting)

cowscows (103644) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310773)

Really, what would be perfect for this whole MAME rom issue would be for someone to create the equivlent of the iTunes music store, just geared towards old, obsolete arcade games. Gather all the roms together, make them accessible through a clean, easy, and reliable interface, and charge a reasonable price. Just like in the music world, it wouldn't end all of the illegal copying going on, but it would create a decent alternative.

There are, of course, a lot of practical issues that would make this very difficult to do. There are a whole lot of little game developers, it'd probably be hard to track down who owns many games, and offering newer games along side older ones would complicate a lot of things, least of all the pricing issues.

But yeah, it'd be cool.

self-delusion (5, Funny)

nomadic (141991) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310781)

MAME user: I wish the law wasn't so ambiguous about playing ROMs.

The Law: It's illegal unless you have the copyright owner's permission.

MAME user: like I said, so vague...

Copyright holders: Don't do it. We don't give permission.

MAME user: can't I get a clear answer out of either of you two?!

Re:self-delusion (3, Insightful)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310983)

> MAME user: I wish the law wasn't so ambiguous about playing ROMs.

I wish the law just made sense when it comes to playing ROMs! I mean, by the strictest of interpretations, if I physically move the ROMs off of my boardsets and plug them into the computer where they are read (and not cached) as the game is played, then it is probably legal.

But if I emulate Pac-Man with a copy of the ROMs on my computer and not on the actual ones in my game room, then I'm a criminal. Oh. And I'm stealing from Namco, too.

Re:self-delusion (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311055)

Well if you own the physical ROM then you have a de facto license to use it. Using an emulator in that way wouldn't be illegal.

Re:self-delusion (1)

neurojab (15737) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311716)

>Well if you own the physical ROM then you have a de facto license to use it.

I'm not sure you do. Copyright law says very little about licensing, except where it entails the transfer of copyright. The "right to use" license doesn't really exist.

Don't forget that copyright is a government-enforced monopoly on the publication of works. The DMCA (for better or worse) extends this to incude copying at home for whatever your reason. Sorry, but even if you own the physical rom, you probably do not have a legal right to copy it even for personal use (except maybe for portions of it for comment, criticism, or parody, provided you can do that without violating any of the rest of the DMCA). The "license to use" is a fallacy.

Re:self-delusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9312352)

You always have the right to make private copies of the ROMs (for yourself only, of course). There's nothing illegal in reading the ROMs from your board with an EPROM reader and storing them on your HD.

There however IS a difference between dumping your own ROMs and downloading them from the net, even if you own the board. The latter is not legal.

Re:self-delusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311074)

Umm...for many of the games, you have to leave out the "Copyright Holders" line, because many of them don't exist, or if the name has resurfaced again (i.e., Atari), they probably did not purchase the old IP from previous versions. I don't think that Atari is going to re-release APB again, but I coudl be wrong.

But the relatively recent rereleases of old coin-op games like Centipede 3-D, BattleZone3D, etc., sucked, imho. The "classic" modes were better than the newer 3-D modes, because they smoehow missed whatever it was that made the original versions "classic".

But does Linux MAME make sense? (3, Interesting)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310793)

I now run my native desktop as Linux. But I've done a speed comparison with some games between MAME under Linux and MAME under DOS. It isn't necessarily Linux's fault, but MAME under DOS just runs faster than Linux, and that means that more games can run at faster framerates with lesser hardware.

I'm trying to see a compelling reason to run a Linux based MAME cabinet, as opposed to an MSDOS dedicated MAME cabinet? The speed issue really hurts.

Re:But does Linux MAME make sense? (1)

DrLZRDMN (728996) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310994)

This may sound stupid but if it matters to you remember that MS isn't the only dos, if you like FOSS there's freedos [freedos.org]. Also, since you said that your runing Linux as a native desktop Im guessing that the installation is not as minimal as possible, If you get rid of X and all that (this is considering its for a dedicated machine) and maybee try a modular kernel it would pribibly be much faster (insert distro propaganda here).

Re:But does Linux MAME make sense? (1)

Mr. Hankey (95668) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311041)

Try adding an NVidia card with their HW-accelerated drivers. Although having a multitasking OS is going to give you some overhead, better driver support may give you better performance in some of the higher resolution games. I'm quite happy with the performance of xmame on my system.

Re:But does Linux MAME make sense? (1)

hopey (172229) | more than 9 years ago | (#9312163)

I have advance mame cabinet with linux. Few reasons to use linux. I use LAN to maintain my cabinet. It is much easier than staring 640x480 max resolution arcade monitor and uploading the games. I've got ps/2 trackball and 2 usb act-labs light guns. I don't know if it's eaven possible to make them work on dos. I did get the light guns working with windows xp (doesn't work at least with w2k) and house of the dead 2. In xp mame is slower than in linux. Also I've found that UAE (amiga emulator) seems to be more stable in linux, at least for playing micromachines.

Title sounds like Spam... (3, Funny)

el-spectre (668104) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310834)

Want a 6' Cabinet?

Eh? Do ya? Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Say... No... More!

Re:Title sounds like Spam... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311373)

A wink's as good as a nudge to a blind bat squire. Eh?

real use for advancemame projects (4, Informative)

satsuke (263225) | more than 9 years ago | (#9310865)

The "real" use for advancemame and related programs is the magic it can work with real arcade equipment.

I for one bought an old Rampage game that had been converted to Sunset Riders .. dead .. for $35 at a local auction last year.

$4.00 in parts and $120 in joysticks / buttons / PC interface and some time on a drill press and I've got me a SF2 style cabinet with enough room to add another 2 joysticks and a spinner for spinnet games and berserk like games.

All played on a real arcade monitor at 15.75 khz (that would be a 19" CGA monitor).

Believe it or not the monitor is better because it isn't so crisp and high quality as a PC VGA monitor is. The look and feel of these old .50mm dot pitch screens is what makes it feel authentic.

Advancemame's wonder is that you can feed it the scanning range of your monitor and it will generate a mode line that drives your video card and monitor at native resolution and scanning rate ,. rather than mame32 and others that use line doubling or tripling and overscan to get the same effect.

Don't forget that most of these old games .. even new ones .. run at 320/240 or less.

Re:real use for advancemame projects (1)

(trb001) (224998) | more than 9 years ago | (#9313624)

I have an older television in my cabinet and it seems to work pretty well. You're right, the fuzziness produced mimics the old arcades perfectly.

--trb

Knoppix Mame? Hard work is done. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311025)

Goodbye harddrive! The console system I've set up has an *old* harddrive with which I've installed a basic linux system that automounts a network share containing my roms. Plays games well, but the hard drive is dying.

I'm in the process of tearing apart a KnoppixMAME iso as I type - add a script to run after boot and I can finally use the magnet from the old hard drive to cause my BOFH boss to have a really bad day!!! MUAHAHAHA.

Just kidding. Obligatory howto on how to remaster a Knoppix bootable CD. http://gnubox.dyndns.org:8080/~sunil/knoppix.php [dyndns.org]

mod doWN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311058)

wheree it belongs, survey which Moans and groans 4 previously

Alert (3, Funny)

cookiepus (154655) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311211)

Whoever says that weed doesn't make you dumber. It took me about a minute to figure out what this story is about and another two deciding how the hell the headline made any sense whatsoever.

It does.

why pine away... (3, Informative)

enrico_suave (179651) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311495)

Why pine away... just build one =) (or convert one --> UberCade: Mame Taito cabinet conversion [randomdrivel.com]

As mentioned ealier Build your own arcade controls [arcadecontrols.com] (be sure to check there forum, where helpful folks like me will help you along with your project... hey quit snickering!)

Also of note is the new "how to" book by the guy who runs byoac... (with my referral link included of course =P ) PRoject Arcade Book [amazon.com]

*Shrug* or you could *shudder* use an x-arcade desktop controller [myaffiliateprogram.com] if you can't fit a full sized cabinet, or cocktail, or cabaret cabinet in your pad...

e.

Emulation IS perfectly legal (5, Informative)

NachoDaddy (696255) | more than 9 years ago | (#9311639)

The rulemaking from the U.S. Copyright Office [copyright.gov] is perfectly clear. If you have rights to the game (as in you own a broken one, bought ROMs from StarROMs, etc), AND you the machine isn't made anymore, you can emulate the machine, even if it has anti-copying built in.
So, the rest of us that have 2000 ROM sets for games we haven't ever seen in person, let alone own a broken original, then we are 'breakin the law'. But you know what else... NO ONE CARES!
No one cares because there is no money involved. The people that own the rights to all the classic arcade games know that it's not worth there time and effort to try and sell old stuff. They're never going to make another Defender machine. They tried to sell Defender and other classics on CD, but that was hardly worth thier time and effort. They will sit on those old rights forever. I have approached a few of the owners and tried to buy the IP from them, and secure the rights for what I felt was some biz-ops, but they have some lazy ass lawyers that are not even sure what games they have right to (becasue of all the mergers), and they weren't willing to look into it.
So if they aren't even willing to figure out what games they have the right for, how willing do you think they are to sue individuals over small time infrinement cases? Not very willing at all.
As long as MAME keeps their distance from ROM distribution, they have nothing to worry about as there are legal and legitimate ways to use MAME.
As long as you're not selling turn-key MAME cabinets fully loaded will all ROMs, you have nothing to worry about. Your not profiting from having and emualtor in your living room, and people that aren't making any money (from their illegal activity) generally don't get sued.

Fatal Triple-Take (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9311653)

I, for one, do not want a six-foot pine box any time soon. I want to die of old age in my sleep after a Twinkie feast off of the breasts of one of my lovers, in zero gravity. And the pine box certainly won't be buried.

mod u4 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9312646)

Rottikng corpse fellow travellers?

How cheap can you get? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9313485)

Emulators are great all and, hell, I use 'em. But if you really want to play old arcade games why not just buy them? Can you imageine how many PCB's you could get for the price of that new graphics card you wasted your money on?

Is your frame rate alittle higher than mine? Sure, but I can play Strider!

Now if only... (1)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 9 years ago | (#9313642)

...AdvanceMAME would support medium resolution monitors as easily as standard resoution so I can use it in my broken BOTSS cockpit (I think BOTSS machines all came from the factory already broken). That's too sweet a monitor to leave sitting there and I haven't made much progress on my Blitz 2000 cab lately.
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