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Solaris to be Community Licensed

sengan posted more than 15 years ago | from the more-funny-licenses dept.

Sun Microsystems 181

In an update to Rob's report, ZD-Net is reporting that Sun will Community License Solaris. Basically you can get the source at zero-cost, but you must return bug fixes to Sun, you must pass Sun's compatability tests, and pay Sun if you ship binaries commercially.

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big step for mankind. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003544)

...

Two reponses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003545)

1) You can only ship the Solaris source if the license allows it. Why not check yourself?

2) In any case, a big part of what makes Free Software work is the way the community follows the spirit, not the letter, of the law. Don't burn Sun, please.

good news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003546)

... for the ultrapenguin port, that is. It will be much easier for the ultrapenguin people to fix the remaining problems in ultrasparc linux now that they have the manufacturer's source code to study.

Why?????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003547)

Could a vendor ship a box that compiles Solaris under Linux and then installs the compiled Solaris over Linux to avoid paying the fees???
Why why why why why....

yeah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003548)

take that, bill.

samedi@disifo.homina.net

Show this story to Solaris, closed-source bigots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003549)

nuff said, right?

Java support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003550)

Er, it=Solaris. (I know I won't be getting an Ultra 10 for free.)

Ummm...that's not possible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003551)

Sengan is already so far off the "what's cool scale" that light emitted from it will not reach him before the heat-death of the universe.

sengan's communist manifesto against sun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003552)

rip their software, whine when we nuke iraq, delete critical posts.

ALL HAIL COMRADE SENGAN!

What the hell is wrong with Malda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003553)

sengan needed a public vote on removal many months ago when he pulled the lame anti-american threads.
malda lets him get away with that, and now we're stuck with crap like this article.
wtf is wrong with malda? did he sleep with sengan's mom or something?

Is there a full moon tonight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003554)

So it was.

Is this some sort of vast conspiracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003555)

If you've got Linux and Solaris as (more or less) open source, are we looking at a trend with other OS's (Tru64 Unix, AIX, OS/2, etc.)? If so, can that be construed as a conspiracy against MS? Are companies sacrificing short term to rid themselves of MS long term? Companies don't kill off revenue streams for no reason. Just because you have a free competitor doesn't mean everybody is going to switch, meaning you'll at least see a dwindling income stream, which is better than nothing. What other reason would there be for this?

(Don't get me wrong, I agree with the Corel guy from the interview mentioned a few articles ago... He basically said "OS's should be transparent to the end user" -- this world needs a lot of competing but compatible OS variants and the only way to ensure this is open source.)

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003556)

More jingoistic anti-Sengan pro-US babble... Have you Americans ever been outside of the U.S.? If you have, you probably have noticed that most industrialised non-US countries have higher taxes, social systems that work and tastier beer.

Also, non-Americans generally know that the world isn't flat, doesn't start at the Atlantic and end at the Pacific.

~AC

anonymous piss ant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003557)

hi, sengan. too afraid to post with your own account, you little weasel?

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003558)

Hmmmmm, how about better public education? Seems like you and your fellow countrymen seriously need it.

Apart from third world dictatorships and oligarchies, I've never seen such an extreme income disparity until I visited the US.

Land of the Free? Opportunity? I'd suggest you ask your non-white citizens and native Indian populace about your inane slogans...

And why is everything that doesn't resemble laissez-faire capitalism labelled 'communism' by Americans?

~AC

Solaris is pretty cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003559)

I've been a Linux user since '93. I've also employed other Unices as servers - Solaris/SPARC, FreeBSD, SGI Irix, HP-UX. Solaris is pretty well designed, and technically current. FreeBSD is all there, and it all works. Linux, however, has the potential to surpass them all if it continues to improve as it has.

Linux is my favorite OS, but let's get real - Solaris and FreeBSD are worthy of respect too.

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003560)

/*More jingoistic anti-Sengan pro-US babble... Have you Americans ever been outside of the U.S.? If you
have, you probably have noticed that most industrialised non-US countries have higher taxes, social systems
that work and tastier beer. */

Higher taxes are a feature?

Working social systems are a lot easier to keep going in more homogenous societies.

As for the last, I'd agree with you ten years ago, but with the consolidation of breweries in Britain along with the microbrewing explosion in America, it is getting easier to get a cask conditioned ale in the US than in the old country.

So there.

Will

Sun trying to kill Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003561)

Sun notices that it's no longer possible to sell operating systems as a "product" anymore. (Selling OS's as a service - including support and rapid responses to problems - is a different matter.)

They don't want to commoditize their hardware by allowing Linux to gain dominance on the UltraSparc, so they're giving their source code away.

What they're really doing is trying to kill Linux on the Sun platform. On the other hand, they'd love it to succeed on other platforms because it would kill the other Unix vendors.

Sengan's OK in my books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003562)

You like him encouraging people to fuck Sun?

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003563)

right on! Everyone agrees welfare only helps the bureaucrats who run the programs

I Support Free Speech (ie. Sengan) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003564)

Greetings, to those of you who find it necessary to deny Sengan his right to speak freely. It's amazing that you feel you have the right to tear his comments down when your own are probably just as bad, if not worse. Unfortunately, I didn't get to read his question because too many people felt the need to crucify him over his thoughts and opinions. I personally wish it hadn't been removed, but that is his (or Rob's) perogative. Most of the people who have the ability to post stories to Slashdot add in their own comments or questions. As long as it does not alter what the story is about, what is your problem? As if you would not put in your own thoughts... And you think everyone reading Slashdot would agree with what you say? Get real, people. Stop putting on the "Holier than thou" act. My parting thought for you to consider: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" or for those who are not religious, "Let he who is without error..."

Peace, I'm outee here,
J-Freak

Welcome to the party sun.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003565)

Well.. restrictions aside...
and weird liscenses aside...

I'm happy for this announcement.

Now... SGI.. Show me the IRIX source!
Show me the source!

-Precedings rants come from the voices in my head

Is this some sort of vast conspiracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003566)

I think that companies are realizing that OS's aren't the real revenue streams they depend on. All of the companies you listed make money by selling kick-ass hardware and support. The OS is mostly just a development cost. The only hardware that Microsoft makes, OTOH, are mice, keyboards, and joysticks. MS lives and dies by OS revenue.

If you get people used to operating systems actually being free, it suddenly starts to make a whole lot less sense to pay whopping licensing fees for W2K.

MS, of course, is partly to blame for this becoming a problem for them. By hiding the cost of DOS (let's call Win98 what it is, DOS 8) in the purchase price of a PC, people thought they had a "free" OS so they didn't buy a replacement.

The more companies release source and give away the OS, the worse it is for MS.

Will

Cool!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003567)

I'm downloading the Java source tonight :). I was glad when Java 2 SDK went under this license. I know it is not the GPL,
but I believe that he who writes the code picks the license. I think that free software (as in freedom) has both positive "moral" benefits (spread of information, sharing, etc. etc.) which I really value and also engeneering and economical benefits. I think both of them are important. But I am not convinced that there is a moral absolute that all software should be free. I believe free software is morally superior. But few "morals" are absolute.

Any ways, just saying that I'm glad to see this. Not as improtant to me as the Java source release, but it puts Sun in an even better light for me.

Snoop

solaris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003568)

it's doing fine as it is..now I think it has the potential to kill MS for good

Britain is a lovely 3rd world country (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003569)

I just love listening to the limeys get uppity.

Newsflash - its 1999 and you still have a Queen.

Stupid Yanks: of course we are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003570)

otherwise gas wouldn't be $.89 a gallon. it's a symptom of what's wrong with country: lack of a holistic view of the country, world, or individual situation. everything is me, me, me. we're supposed to have a federal government surplus with a huge retained debt, and all people think about is tax refunds and lowering income taxes. we act like we petroleum is being produced so fast we can't use it all. use of mass transit is rare to non-existant. people on wellfare have cable TV (or TV's period) and nike's and don't realize that they're not necessities in life. this country is made up of the most childish, irresponsible people i could ever imagine.

stupid question about MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003571)

This might sound really stupid.. but how exactly would it hurt Microsoft to open the source in this same way to NT? Im certain there are legions of windows programmers who would fix bugs for them. It wouldnt exactly increase piracy (thats easy enough as it is). So whats the drawback keeping them from letting other people do their work for em?

Im prolly just go ignorant to see it :)

t0ast.

Britain is a lovely 3rd world country (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003572)

Tinky Wink is British but I don't see what =that= has to do with anything. :|

if (browser==netscape) crash_randomly(); (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003573)

There's all kindsa "bugs" in the OS that they don't want anyone looking at, dig?

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003574)

/*1. Americans are profoundly anti-intellectual, Marxism was supported by the intellectual elite and was therefore
untrustworthy. */


America is so diverse that a generalization of this sort is essentially meaningless. Any sweeping statements about "the American culture" are nonsense as America is made up of multiple cultures.

America has been strongly anti-Marxist because its success is a result of capitalism.

Will

White trash should starve too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003575)

I don't care what color a lazy bum is.
Lazy bums deserve to starve, freeze, etc.

Audit the code. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003576)

Remember Vixie's comments about finding chunks of his free code in proprietary systems? Who wants to audit Sun's code for GPL components?

And at least now people will find out what the Ultra bugs are, and UltraPenguin will finally have 64-bit addressing for users.

Jason

Your case must have been a fluke. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003577)

Mine came within a matter of days.

Mine was major delayed, but it came. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003578)

Took a bit longer then two weeks, but it did finaly make it.

nexion@home.com

What inspired this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003579)

?????

I also support free speech. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003580)

The "right of free speech" applies to this very comment section, not the articles. If sengan wants a soap box, let him post comments like the rest of us.

stupid question about MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003581)

An interesting question. I think there are at least two reasons for MS not releasing NT source code.

1. Some people inside MS will admit that there are security-related bugs inside the NT source code, and MS is worried that if a lot of people examine the code, these bugs will be exploited to harm NT machines which will generate bad PR for NT and hurt its market share.

2. NT is a complicated product that evolves a lot from major release to major release. NT 3.1 to NT 3.5, NT 3.51 to NT 4.0, and the upcoming NT 4.0 to NT 5.0 transitions all made major modifications to the code. When you release source code and invite the world to start hacking it along with you, it changes your development model at all levels. Microsoft would no longer have the ability to just trash huge parts of NT from one release to another because the development model would not be "proprietary" any more. I doubt whether MS is willing to put up with this type of change. Although you can be sure that MS development teams are looking at how the OSS model works and will try to adapt it to the microcosm that exists *within* MS.

Stupid Yanks: of course we are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003582)

I certainly agree with the 'not realizing what is an essential of life'.. i've seen that attitude many, many times. This is one of (IMO) the major downfalls of our current implementation of capitalism.. Advertising is so effective and starts so young that the fundamental world view of every person is touched. It's important not to forget the ultimate flexibility of the human mind: absolutely anything can be beleived to the point of not ever considering it - like breathing. **Education** is the only answer to a society that can base itself on real* needs and see more than the television.

This problem, of worldviews incongurent with the verifiable truth, of course plagues humankind -- witch hunts, astrology, enemy-scapegoating, etc, etc.. (think up your own examples). The problem is the way the human mind evaluates it's own efficiency. It is based entirely on Happiness. But since the mind and it's IMAGINATION are first-class inputs, you can beleive yourself out of any situation. To stay true to the physical world, one must always second guess oneself-- and the second guesses MUST be based on experimental proof. (have we heard of SCIENTIFIC METHOD? why haven't all our children?)

Of course on the other hand, nature made our imaginations first-class inputs for a 'reason'.. so far it seems to be working. It may be that a functional, maintainable human society may routinely contradict all logic and physical proof as a matter of course. (Mark Twain's A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court is interesting reading along these lines). What you believe is what you live?


* real needs here are of course scientifically provables ones plus the society's own fundamental(kernal) beliefs.

(note: although i don't care to create a /. account, my email address is fatjim@home.com. so i am a person here! ps, i am a saskathchwan,canadia resident if you think that colors my ideas somehow.)

"Yanks" seem more mature to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003583)

Occasionally on /. you see someone take a pop at the Americans, usually from some idiot denizen of the UK (I am English btw) and I notice the majority of US responses are very forgiving. I do think you Americans should get out more and see some of the world but it isn't going to kill you if you don't.

So I'll raise a glass of any countries beer to international relations and wonder why a) a previous poster thinks the UK is the only country with a monarch b) The Americans feel they captured Enigma c) The Americans bought Telly Tubbies.

Regards


Mark

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003584)

"also, non-Americans generally know that the world isn't flat, doesn't start at the Atlantic
and end at the Pacific. "

And those darn Americans are constantly making stupid generalizations about people they don't even know..... Oh, wait..... that would be you.

stupid question about MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003585)

They'd never release their source under GPL, that's for sure. If they ever do it, It'll be something like this:

"The source is available for free (gratis). Bug fixes must be fed back. Don't cry to us if your changes break something. You must pay us if you sell or distribute derivatives."

Hell. I know about at least five bugs that I'd personally love to squash in W95. Not because I want to help MS, but because working around those bugs can be a pain in the XXX.

But, as someone else already explained, this is not going to happen. Releasing the source would make it a lot easier to fix up samba and wine in a clean-room fashion. It would also be impossible
for MS to selectively choose which ISVs they want to play on team with. (Example: They denied Netscape documentation of the win32 APIs for 6 months because N refused to play ball with MS in the browser market).

Much of MS' power derives from the fact that they are large enough to make their own proprietary standards, and selectively choose who to document these to. Available source makes it possible to clean-room these APIs and protocols. Imagine 10 ISVs hiring an independent company to look over the source and document all APIs and protocols. No way. MS won't give away their power over ISVs that easily.

IBM Needs to release OS/2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003586)

Now all we need is for IBM to release OS/2. Now that would be cool.

stupid question about MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003587)

Another thing is the code itself might be a real embarrasment for MS coders. I've heard that MS development departments are often pitted against eachother, so the standards and APIs exist soley in the heads of the one team that wins.. surely that would be spaghetti code if i ever saw it. That would make very bad PR for NT, if not for win98.

Cool for sysadmins that have to do unorthodox stuf (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003588)

Instead of having to write test programs so you can make an educated guess at what you need to do, you can open up the source and SEE it. We do a lot of cross-platform stuff, and sometimes it's tough to figure out the little inconsistancies.

Why americans don't like (commun|social)ism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003589)

As a Swedish foreign citizen I just had to reply to this "essay" of utter bullsh*t.

First of all Sweden is one of the least rasistic countries I've ever visited. Being one of the most open in Europe accepting more refugees than any nordic country and about 0.7% of its total population each year! This means that the younger generation, at least in the urban areas, is quite used to foreign people and thus making interacial marriages and relationships a lot more common than in the US (I believe only 2% marriage interracialy in the land of the free).

Keep your facts straight and maybe you should keep your thought in your, let's say, less cunning league.

Sengen == way cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003590)

I fully support sengen. I think he should not have removed his question. It was, after all, a question, not a statement. I appreciate sengen's "alternative" views. Heck, if you guys want to be all mainstream, go buy Windows.

Stupid Yanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003591)

/* Um hate to break it to you but the UK is in no way a Homogenous country. Anything but. About 20% of people
in the UK were born outside of the country. (Africa, India, Packistan, West Indies etc). */

It is no accident that this development coincided with the rise of Thatcherism.

Why americans don't like (commun|social)ism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003592)

Traditionally however, Sweden was a very racist country.

Can the laplanders (or whatever they prefer to call tbemselves) have their ancestors heads back?

They were real human beings after all.

Mark.

That's ok. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003593)

I just received mine - I can't install it unless
I delete the Linux partition on my 6.8 gig drive...

The Solaris installation fails if there is any
data above 4 gigs apparently and its partition
is in the middle of the disk. What a piece of
shit. I installed FreeBSD 3.1 by FTP in a 1/2
hour instead. Plus, the Solaris CD-ROM is marginally manufactured - lots of read errors.

FreeBSD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003594)

What do mean, specifically, by FreeBSD having a better "feel" than Linux? (honest question, not some kind of silly flamebait)

Linux freaks destroy another good OS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003595)

Oh, just wonderful! Now one of the best operating systems aside from NT -- Solaris -- will become none other than a toy, corrupted by shareware spaghetti code contributed by a bunch of 14-year old, pimply faced, socially inept losers. ;-( Yeah, like I want to use poorly structured, buggy, shareware code from kids who are pulling down C's in math.

Well, thank goodness the ethical, solid company called Microsoft won't let the Linux freaks corrupt *its* offerings!

Americans bashing Sengan once again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003596)

Maybe Americans are really as stupid and intolerant as the rest of the world thinks they are...

This is an objective article that contains all necessary information, including the restrictions they put on the license.

Why are people here criticising TrollTech, but don't allow criticism of Sun???

I just don't like these f*cking US nationalists here!

Are we reading the same comments? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003597)

I guess not.
OK, for European standards UK people are 'half' American, but here the US comments are really annoying.

It's incredible how much intolerance, ignorance and personal attacks are expressed here.

Yes, I know it's /., but that still sheds a bad light on Americans...

give the guy a break (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003598)

He didn't say (or even imply, as I read it) that *all* Solaris users are closed source bigots. These people do, however, exist (I have personally had the extremely poor fortune of having to meet some of them... they can make RMS look extremely level-headed).

Death penalty in the US, China, Iraq, Iran,... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003599)

Hmm, who's the 3rd world country here?!?

Textutils on Unix / Linux (I do mention Solaris) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003600)

A curiosity -

Anyone run "od -cb . " on Linux?
I get a message about . being a directory - (tried on Debian and Caldera)and the command ends - I have searched the man and info pages as to why this is, but cannot seem to locate an explanation.

I run the same "od -cb . " on Solaris or Digital Unix and I get the what I asked for - the bytes in the directory.

What about *BSDs?

BTW this is an exercise from the classic - "The Unix Programming Environment" by Kernighan and Pike ( page 51).


I also support free speech. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003601)

If slashdot is just a site for the authors (i.e. sengan) to spew their own personal feelings on the front page and call them "articles" and then proceed to delete comments that criticize them in any way, while accepting advertising revenue the whole time, then that needs to be said right up front so that we can all find a better use for our time.

Why americans don't like (commun|social)ism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003602)

Here's a theory a professor of mine has that I think is interesting:

/* 1. Americans are profoundly anti-intellectual, Marxism was supported by the intellectual elite and was therefore untrustworthy. */

Not to mention that Marxism is a utopian concept that would only work properly if humans were just machines. The end goal of Marxism is communism. Communism is a form of government without a government. While that may seem nice, it is not possible unless people drop their wants. This is something people are not just ready to do.


/* 2. Americans are individualistic and prefer to have no ceiling even if that means no floor */

Well, in America we do what we want to do, barring a number of illegal things. It is closer to natural law to live by your own means than by the government, is it not?

/* 3. (my favorite) Any two of the following three things can be true of a society without
a. It is non-homogenous and non-totalitarian
b. It is racist
c. It is socialist
*/

You need to rephrase that. There is a serious clause error that makes it not understandable.

Sengan, Software, Communism and Nazism (Read this) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003603)

What is happening to Slashdot

In the past few months my view of Slashdot has moved from being a novel website filled with interesting geeky news to a place where any viewpoint
that isn't 100% American PC is struck down by a vocal group of seemingly ill educated, racist, neanderthals.

Since the US and UK illegally bypassed the UN and started bombing Iraq (which Sengan reported and pointed out his dissapointment in his home
country's involvement (England)), many Slashdot posters took it as a que to call Sengan everything from a Communist to Nazi.

Since that date pretty much everything Sengan ever reports on is followed by posts of racism toward any non US country and brainwashed repetition of
anti communist dribble.

It amazes me that few people (none that I have seen) have noticed that it is not Sengan who is more of a Nazi, but many of those shouting so loud.

This, of course, has all happened before. Mr Stallman standing behind his GPL has been the brunt of many Communist accusations. Very few of us feel
anything but admiration for someone so prepared to stand for his beliefs that it has heralded new opportunites in the computer world.

Communism may well be flawed becuase the people who try it are not perfect, but if there is a place where it can be made to work without problem then
we only stand to gain from it. For the last couple of decades the computer world has been 100% Totalitarian, Platform racism and Nazism has stood
fast under the capitalist umbrella. Propaganda has been pumped onto out TV sets, our magazines, films and books and now, due to the likes of
Stallman, we have the chance to break all of this down and replace it something much better. Yet those, like Sengan, who claim this are accused of
being Communist. I cannot see any reason why this should be so. In the recent Solaris / Community Source case many people saw fit to think Sengan was
merely trying to screw Sun from a few dollars. This was not it at all.

Had the company in question been Microsoft I doubt anyone would have questioned Sengans comments. We'd argue "they have enough money already" and
keep it based on Money. Sengan did not do that. His viewpoint did not come from wanting to save money but to maximize the rights of the public to use
software however they wish. Linux is already under such terms and to date there has not been one person complaining about the freedom it grants them.

It is dull to see so many ignorant people speak before engaging their brains. I may have made mistakes myself in this post, but I definately thought
about it before hand. Something that seems very lacking in the race to flame Sengan.

Arthur Dent
Oxford
England

stupid question about MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003604)

MS can't go OSS within their own microcosm. Once it's opened up to however many programmers they have (dozens, hundreds?) somebody is going to leak it.

Also, they have all those nasty bits for fed spying that OSS would bring to light. Notice the press releases talking about M$ being forced to release source immediately prompted rumors of "There are portions of the source we can't find. They've been lost."

Yeah, right. Just like there's no "break QT/Netscape/RealPlayer/anything else" bits. They'll convienently vanish too.

As if.

Interesting example of US stupidity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003605)

This is an interesting essay. Not because it has much to do with reality, but in the way Americans handle facts and theory.
Economics and natural sciences are apparently considered important, but social sciences are a catastrophe.

The theory sounds very original, it's easy to explain and provides easy recipes for complex problems.
The only problem: The analysis is nice, but the conclusion doesn't care about facts at all!

racism
Compared to the US, all European states are quite non-racist; Sweden has a reputation of being especially tolerant.

Germany is extremely non-homogenous. Not because of Turks in the first place, but because of the former socialist eastern part.
This means:
- west: 'moderate/tamed' capitalism
east: socialism (in the minds of the people)
- west: less 'race-homogenous', relatively weak racism
east: very few foreigners, strong racism, also due to bad economic situation

Certainly Germany is [...] becoming less and less homogeneous with the influx of Turks which creates political pressure to segment social programs, even citizenship on nationalistic lines.

Ironically, it's exactly the other way round: German citizenship is about to be liberalized, while it has *always* been bound to descent (unlike the French law, e.g.)

This shows once again, that in the US 'eye-catching' theories are more important than thorough knowledge, when it come to foreign policy and culture.

a humble request (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003606)

Next time you make statements like that, make sure you point out up front that they are completely unsupported.

WHAT THE HELL DID SENGAN POST? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003607)

I was late to the party. I'm curious what he actually said that got everyone's panties in a twist. Does anybody remember?

Hanzie@hotbot.com
Not an A/C, just didn't login

Lame Troll destroys another logical train of thoug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003608)

Great. Another lame crack baby Mocrosoft troller destroys a completely valid argument by making completely untrue assertions about Free Software and its programmers. It's a good thing we have reliable, ethical sources of information like Jesse Berst to clue us in on the real nature of open software.


$0.02

Yeah, what do you mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003609)

What the first reply asked, plus, why is Linux for people that grew up on DOS? Excatly what aspect of Linux makes it more for ex DOS people than say Solaris or *BSD? I use both Solaris and Linux and I haven't noticed this, but like the first poster, I'd really like to know why you say this.

Same for me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003610)

So after a while, I e-mailed them about it. They appologized and I had the package on my desk in a few days. Not bad at all.

Clean room (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003611)

I just cleaned my room, they could use it!

(this comment is intentionally dum)

Oh bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003612)

Don't give me that crap. My parents weren't rich at all but they worked damn hard all their lives to make sure their kids had a warm bed and decent clothes and food on the table. I'm sick of people leeching off the system and then bitching about how bad it is and how bad America sucks. Well get the hell out of here if you can't roll up your sleeves and actually WORK.

I must protest! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2003613)

As a Communist I resent your implication that we go around nukeing Iraq or deleting /. posts. We have constantly objected to the bombing of Iraq and we have no plans, as of yet, to exercise any editorial control over /.

Anonymous Comrade

What the hell is wrong with Sengan (1)

anewsome (58) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003669)

I can't beleive I'm reading this.

A big kick ass linux supporting company like Sun goes all out to try and do something good for the world of computing (anb bad for M$), and Sengan is trying to figure out a way to pimp them out of a few bucks.

Why anyone woul want to screw Sun out of a few bucks by loopholing their binary clause is beyond me.

Slashdot (and Sengan especially) just lowered a notch on the what's cool scale.

--Aaron Newsome

Powerful Yanks (1)

TopSpin (753) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003672)

Deal with it.

Is there a full moon tonight? (1)

pingouin (783) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003673)

Sengan's question was a "what if?", an attempt, I guess, to find a flaw in the license. Why this question should be misunderstood and misinterpreted by you people, I don't know. Why this misunderstanding should be so willfully and consistently done, I do know. I would love to play SlashCop and tell the lot of you to take a hike, but I'm just Joe Lurker. I just wish you guys had the brainpower and cojones to think about it and feel some small bit of shame.

Note: Sengan has removed the question in question.

--

What the hell is wrong with you people? (1)

pingouin (783) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003674)

Actually, that just makes it worse. He can't take the heat.

So you piss on him either way, whether he removes it or not. I don't think he "can't take the heat"; it's more like "we had to kill the sentence in order to save the IQ level of the comments". Thank you very much for forcing him to censor himself; maybe /. should just remove all thought-provoking questions.

Sengan, instead of covering up your mistakes (like your probable censoring of this post) why not just not make the mistakes in the first place? Here's an easy way: Think first, then post.

There was no mistake. I wish you kneejerk anti-Sengan bastards would follow your own advice; take a look at your comments in this thread (while they're still here) - those comments show absolutely no thought at all.

--

I Support Free Speech (ie. Sengan) (1)

pingouin (783) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003675)

The problem people had was that they interpreted him to be advocating using the loophole, which seems meanspirited, as opposed to just exposing the loophole, which was apparently his intent.

You're way too kind. I don't think anyone misunderstood the question (well, you maybe); people were just piling on Sengan, using it as an excuse. It's not the first time - this has been going on ever since the Iraq bombing; some people's IQs seem to hit bottom at the very sight of Sengan's name. And they all seem to post anonymously for some reason.

--

Does anybody know IP law? (1)

Ami Ganguli (921) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003679)

When are clean room procedures required? I know it's needed for reverse engineering, but I don't know exactly why. Presumably to ensure there is no copyright violation?


Linus (along with thousands of OS design students who are now working in industry) saw the source to Minix and that wasn't deemed a problem. People from Digital's VMS group ended up working on NT. Clearly seeing the source for one OS doesn't prevent somebody from ever working on another.

Sun never delivered my free copy on Solaris! (1)

BadlandZ (1725) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003681)

I ordered a copy of Solaris x86 the day they started the offer. It never came at all.

2nd thoughts (1)

copito (1846) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003682)

Apparently his second thought was to get huffy, reply as an Anonymous Coward and do the right thing.

Can anyone get through to www.sun.com? (1)

copito (1846) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003683)

I get timeouts when trying to access http://www.sun.com, at least this one:
Name: wwwwseast2.usec.SUN.COM
Address: 192.9.49.33
Aliases: www.SUN.COM

A stupid yank speaks (1)

copito (1846) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003684)

I find Sengan's posts to be troublesome not because they are anti-US, but because they are anti-sense. I'm not talking about the geopolitical editorials, but ones that have convoluted grammatical constructions. I thought that Sengan was a non-native English speaker for a some time, but apparently he's British, so now I just think he's a little hasty.

As to your other points, I attended an international school (25% US, 75% other) and I agree wholeheartedly that Americans,even well educated ones, tend to be less well rounded than others. However, Europe is not the whole world either and once you get outside of that your taxes and social systems quip is even less true. And besides, in my limited experience, Panama and Chile have by far worse beer than the US.

Britain is a lovely 3rd world country (1)

copito (1846) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003685)

Now, now. Quayle was less of a leader than the Queen.

Try a little more complex economics (1)

copito (1846) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003686)

The market does a great job of pricing commodities if all internal and external costs related to the production and distribution of that commoditity.

Does the price of gasoline accurately internalize the price of military intervention in the Middle East?

Does the price of gasoline accurately internalize environmental and human harms of agressive exploration and extraction of petroleum? or of the damage when it is used?

When those things are true, gasoline will be fairly priced.

As for your other point, you are correct will never run out of petroleum reserves since the price will rise as supply diminishes, hence some will never be extracted. We will, however, run out of useful quantities of gasoline, which is a man made product and which will not be produced if it is priced out of the energy market.

Good! (1)

ksheff (2406) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003689)

I have no problem getting rid of murderers or any other violent thug. Everyday should be fry day.

Marketing Buzz-Words. (1)

Robert Bowles (2733) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003690)

Community Source? Though looking under the SunOS hood might be interesting, this intentionaly warm and fuzzy term is fundamentally different from GPL. At this point in time, Linux is more of a specific threat to commercial/commodity unixes than WinNT.

Um. Wow. (1)

aheitner (3273) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003693)

That's pretty far out. Yeah, I know it's not GPL. But hey, if you want it you can run Linux on your ultra :).

I think this is a big step forward -- and I bet there's a lot of stuff in the infamous Slowlaris that could use some outside eyes.

However, I personally have no intention of _ever_ under _any circumstances_ looking at a single line of Slowlaris source. Yeaahh! yuck.

Sun never delivered my free copy on Solaris! (1)

anthonyjhicks.com (4515) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003694)

I know this is not quite related to the free source offer, but just as an example of how I have seen these offers managed by Sun in the past.

About five months back they offered free copies of Solaris for personal use. All you had to do was order on the web site and pay delivery. Five months later (just yesterday infact) I got sick of waiting for it to be delivered, cancelled the order and demanded a refund. Lets hope this will be better managed.

Sengan's OK in my books (1)

RedOctober (10155) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003698)


...just because he's rubbed some doofus-headed
merkins up the wrong way is no reason to ostracise him.

Maybe you should listen your own free-speech rhetoric, and let Sengan be. If you don't like what he says, don't read it. Some of use *like* what he has to say.

I Support Free Speech (ie. Sengan) (1)

Twigg (11247) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003699)

I was wondering what the heck everyone was talking about. By the time I got to the article it seemed completely innocuous.

UltraPenguin (1)

mrsam (12205) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003702)

Sun must've noticed that it's only a matter of time before the Linux Sparc port is mature enough to beat the pants off Solaris. It makes no sense to charge a sizable fee for an operating system, when you can get something else which works at least as well, and it's free.

Stupid Yanks (1)

Bigman (12384) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003703)

Look again, dude. Back here in the UK The real ale/commercial fizz pendulum has swung back; double diamond is dead, long live Theakstones!

Does anyone *really* miss Watneys Red Barrel ?

Cable TV and Nikes (1)

JamesKPolk (13313) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003704)

Since when is the ability of the poor to purchase luxuries a BAD thing? Americans have a fairly high standard of living overall... and this is a reason to bash Americans?

One man's luxury is another's necessity (emotionally if not physically).

the one time I don't hit preview... (1)

JamesKPolk (13313) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003705)

I meant to say:

...doesn't support the [sarcasm] tag.

Stooopid License Tricks (1)

Maciej Stachowiak (14282) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003709)

Why is Sun obsessed with creating all these
weird almost open source but not quite licenses?
Solaris is there mainl to sell Sun hardware,
services and add-on products, these businesses
would do just as well if Sun made Solaris truly
open. I mean, who's going to compete with Sun
in the Solaris support business?

It really seems like they are trying to get everyone to fix bugs and add features for them,
but still maintain the control and the revenue stream. I'd like to be able to say that people will see through this sort of thing, but Qt got plenty of third-party patches under the old license, and I'm sure MySQL and qmail still do.

I'm actually willing to use proprietary software in some cases, but licensing tricks like this really annoy me.

Interesting (1)

Your own stupidity (14554) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003710)

So Sun basically is trying to get the best of both worlds: Getting hundreds of hackers to debug your source code for free (freed software world), and getting a piece of the action for every copy sold (un-free software world).

Somehow, I do not think developers will be throwing themselves at Sun like armadillos into oncoming cars to take them up on this offer. I guess it depends on how big a cut Sun wants, and if it's set in advance of you developing your product, or after.

(For the unaware, the armadillo looks like an armored rat and is about the size of a small dog, but is low to the ground -- low enough to pass unscathed under some cars and most larger vehicles -- but it's defense mechanism is to jump straight up into the air where they are invariably killed, victims of... well, you know.)

Looks like we maybe /.'d SUN? (1)

Mudhiker (15850) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003714)

Yeah right...but I can't get their site tonight. It's a happy thought. :-)

Funny, mine came real quick. (1)

Mr. Piccolo (18045) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003715)

Mine took about two weeks, but it got here before the E-mail saying they had shipped it :-)

Oh yeah, almost forgot... (1)

coreybrenner (19101) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003718)

Imagine what kind of Beowulf cluster you could
build with some of that 31337 SoL@r1z source
code...

:-P

--C

Sun never delivered my free copy on Solaris! (1)

Edward Carter (19288) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003719)

I got mine rather promptly...

But you have a point. Sun might be better off not trying to handle the distribution themselves. Maybe they could allow cheapbytes to distribute gratis Solaris as well? (I've never personally dealt with them, so I don't know for sure if they'd be any better...)

Interesting (1)

Edward Carter (19288) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003720)

You are certainly right: Solaris will not get anywhere NEAR the kind of community development that Linux, etc. gets. You have to admire the direction they're taking, though.

Interesting (1)

Edward Carter (19288) | more than 15 years ago | (#2003721)

I was not trying to knock Sun's license. I was just saying that while some people might contribute bug fixes, there will not be as many people as there are doing the same thing for gnu/linux (I don't normally say "gnu/linux" but I want to make it clear I'm referring to a full OS, not a kernel).
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