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Mercora - New Radio P2P Network

Hemos posted more than 10 years ago | from the excellent-ideas dept.

The Internet 113

jtids writes "The maker of P2P Client, Shareaza, is working on a new Radio P2P project called Mercora. This network gives users the ability legally webcast music to other users on the network. Users can also share images, send instant messages, and join groups where they can participate in forums and chatrooms. Although the program itself is still in beta, the project looks promising."

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frosty pist (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356397)

pist frost

21 ways to be a good liberal (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356400)

1.) You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal
funding.
2.) You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders
how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
3.) You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-bidding Americans
are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of
Chinese and North Korean communists.
4.) You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding.
5.) You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by
cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by
soccer moms driving SUV's.
6.) You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being
homosexual is natural.
7.) You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on
demand.
8.) You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments
create prosperity.
9.) You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony
activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do.
10.) You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually
doing something to earn it.
11.) You have to believe that the military, not corrupt politicians, start
wars.
12.) You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts
of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain
parts of the Constitution.
13.) You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.
14.) You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more
important to American history than Mary Washington, Betsy Ross, the American
Pioneer Women, Eleanor Roosevelt, "Rosey the Riveter," and Rosa Parks.
15.) You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial
quotas and set-asides are not.
16.) You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice
person.
17.) You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked
anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
18.) You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail,
but a liar and a sex offender belonged in the White House.
19.) You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag,
transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and
manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.
20.) You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the
Chinese government is somehow in the best interest to the United States.
21.) You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing
conspiracy.

Re:21 ways to be a good liberal (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356457)

You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.

Where is the hypocrisy in that? One is a living being, the other isn't.

You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

You mean Communism. Socialism is working fine in Europe and Canada.

Re:21 ways to be a good liberal (1)

lord_nightrose (652871) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359387)

Both have the potential TO live.

Re:21 ways to be a good liberal (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356570)

You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

Actually, she probably can [rotten.com] .

21 ways to be a good conservative (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357740)

1.) You have to believe that the AIDS virus was created by a magical deity to punish mankind.
2.) You have to believe that the topic of sex is more dangerous to children than exposure to violence and murder via media.
3.) You have to believe democratic nuclear weapons are less of a threat the world than communist nuclear weapons.
4.) You have to believe that the best art comes from corporate associations.
5.) You have to every American has the right to drive a 6 person 10 mpg Sport Van to work and back and that we need to widen all the roads, create more parking lots, and drill for more oil wherever possible, or invade other countries if needed.
6.) You have to believe that homosexuality is new to our society, and the the ideal TV 50's was the perfect era.
7.) You have to pretend to believe that preventing abortion of an inseminated egg is more important than poverty, war, peace, lost of innocent lives or hunger.
8.) You have to believe that dominating businesses like mcdonalds, coca cola, starbucks, walmart and microsoft showcase what quality businesses are all about, and that a government that promotes paranoia, war and censorship will create prosperity.
9.) You have to believe that hunters are just nature lovers with guns and chewing tobacco.
10.) You have to believe that money is more important than actually doing something good to earn it.
11.) You have to believe in the corrupt politicians that start wars as long as they are conservative.
12.) You have to believe that owning a gun for sport, accidental deaths and sometimes self protection is more important than all other freedoms and rights.
13.) You have to believe that taxes and gas prices are too high, and that we should increase military spending as an investment in oil.
14.) You have to believe that women have no place in history or politics except perhaps as first lady to a great man.
15.) You have to believe that standardized tests can help an outdated education system that teaches no modern skills.
16.) You have to believe that Nancy Reagan is normal and is a very nice person.
17.) You don't really know the distinction between socialism and communism, and fail to realize that much of Europe, Canada and some of US policies are socialist.
18.) You have to believe conservatives exaggerating the truth to go to war belong in the White House.
19.) You have to believe the separation of church and state should be ignored by Christians when appropriate.
20.) You have to believe that illegal corporate Republican funding is somehow in the best interest to the United States.
21.) You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, left wing conspiracy.

hello (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356405)

lk;djfvadc;asdkcadc dfdsf sadfef rg rfg aeg

looks promising until... (0, Flamebait)

xerxesVII (707232) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356410)

dun da dunnn... the riaa comes in and starts subpoena-ing your isp again. those fuckers.

Ah, Hawaii! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356411)

Sort of like AlohaNet, with warez?

P.S: Taco WILL YOU HURRY THE HELL UP AND FIX SLASH? Half the damn pages won't display properly!

Re:Ah, Hawaii! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356551)

Quit using Mozilla Firefucks and you won't have that problem! You know deep down that IE is superior. Sit back and give in to flawless web rendering, courtesy of your friends at Microsoft.

Re:Ah, Hawaii! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356628)

Ah, that'll be the flawless rendering like when I have mod points, and IE craps itself trying to display all those drop-down combo boxes on one page? As fucking flawless as my spotty arse.

To Trade (4, Informative)

thebra (707939) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356413)

Mercora, a derivation of a Latin word meaning "to trade" and is run by Chief Executive Srivats Sampath, former CEO of McAfee.com

Wired ran an article on this last year here [wired.com] .

Re:To Trade (3, Funny)

sjwt (161428) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356449)

But the real question is how dose one trade p0rn with this??

I meen are we goign to be limited to p0rn sound tracks on this new p2p?

=>

And how long before the record industry trys to kill it off becase it can be used to send out copyrighted songs.

Re:To Trade (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356506)

If ever I saw a reply that ought to have been posted anonymously...

Re:To Trade (1)

focitrixilous P (690813) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359236)

Actually, they also have an image client of some sort
Share pictures with friends and family using Mercora P2P Pictures

* Create albums and pictures on your local computer for friends to see
* Decide which of your friends gets to see your various albums using privacy settings for each album


sounds like it could share your precious pr0n to me.
from their about page [mercora.com]

Re:To Trade (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9358480)

This thing is crap. It won't minimize and the music is from old hookers with a few mp3's. Only for sickos

Re:To Trade (1)

Kpt Kill (649374) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359530)

uh, yes, it does minimize and the very first station i picked was playing linkin park and incubus right off the bat

1st post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356414)

1st post

YOU SO FUCKING FAIL IT, DOUCHEBAG! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356609)

No linux client (5, Informative)

barcodez (580516) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356422)

If you are running linux, bsd, mac or anything but windows you're out of luck there is only a windows client. I don't care enough to get this working under wine.

No big deal ... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356575)

Most *nix users can't configure ALSA correctly

Re:No linux client (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357347)

Its GPLed, so just need to wait till someone port it to Linux/Gtk :)

legally? (5, Insightful)

fozzmeister (160968) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356423)

doesn't that depend on what you broadcast?

Re:legally? (4, Informative)

Frequanaut (135988) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356493)

Not only on *what* you broadcast, but also *when* you broadcast.
From the legal disclaimer: [mercora.com] You may not "Webcast specific sound recordings within one hour of the request by a listener or at a time designated by the listener"

Re:legally? (3, Interesting)

challahc (745267) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356500)

Yeah it says it's ok to broadcast music ripped from cds, and downloaded legally from places like iTunes.

Does anyone use this yet? I was wondering if you have the ability to mix songs and use a microphone to talk, or if its just like a playlist. I'm guessing it's the second option here, in which case this idea isn't really new. I remember using this [analogx.com] to do the same type of thing with winamp.

Re:legally? (3, Informative)

Rydia (556444) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356578)

What they say and what is true are two entirely different things.

The rules of ownership (I have this, I can do what I want with it, and give it to my friends as fair use in a limited domain) are completely different from the rules of broadcast (I have this thing, and I'm going to do what I want with it and give it to anyone that is even remotely interested).

It does depend on what you broadcast (1)

doodlelogic (773522) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357885)

Broadcast rights have been reserved by the record companies since when they well, just made records (of the round black variety).

That said, historically the record companies have as often been complicit in illicit broadcasting as they have been desparate to shut it down; in the UK for instance to get around the quota system for live vs. recorded music, pop records were beamed over from Luxembourg [fortunecity.com] and even 'pirate ships' in the North Sea [sixtiescity.com] . More recently, much "urban" music owes its intital sucess to underground radio stations like the now-legal Kiss 100.

GNAA Announces New Celebrity Member (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356429)

GNAA ANNOUNCES NEW CELEBRITY MEMBER
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The GNAA welcomes the hip hop sensation and creator of hit tracks such as "X Gon Giv It 2 Ya" and "Where da hood at?" with open arms. A celebrity of this magnitude should provide some great publicity for the GNAA and get their name out even more.

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cause I'm a nigga who's goin down in history.


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.________________________________________________. fucking
| ______________________________________._a,____ | CmdrTaco
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | will
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | he ever learn that
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| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | unstoppable? Teamed
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| ______-"!^____________________________________ | This logo is (C) 2003, 2004 GNAA [idge.net]
` _______________________________________________'

(C) GNAA 2004



What about royalties? (4, Insightful)

roche (135922) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356440)

I thought it was ruled a year or so back that all webcasts have to pay royalties to the artists if they boradcast the music over the net. How can this be legal if that is still the case?

Re:What about royalties? (3, Informative)

The Hobo (783784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356479)

It looks like they do pay royalties to a certain group that represents many artists: Or so they say here [mercora.com]

We'll know if it's right by the RIAA factor, being how fast they can get a subpeona out to these guys.

Re:What about royalties? (5, Informative)

eSims (723865) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356621)

From the FAQ [mercora.com] :

Is broadcasting music on the Mercora network legal? Yes. Mercora has obtained the necessary licenses so that you can broadcast music on the Mercora Network legally.

Specifically, Mercora enables the webcasting of music according to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. 114 (required Adobe Acrobat to read). Mercora has obtained the statutory license for the non-interactive streaming of sound recordings from Sound Exchange, the organization designated by the U.S. Copyright Office to collect and distribute statutory royalties to sound recording copyright owners and featured and non featured artists. Mercora has also taken care of all U.S. musical composition performance royalties through its licenses with ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. Most song writers are represented by these agencies but there are some who are not affiliated with them, and you will need to obtain their permission before you can webcast their music. Mercora also ensures that any broadcast using the Mercora client adheres to the sound recording performance complement as specified in the DMCA. Read more about broadcasting on the Mercora Network.

How do they plan to finance the network operation? (2, Insightful)

OmniGeek (72743) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357620)

Presumably, Mercora will pay some sort of royalties on the Webcasts. Even if they get a free ride somehow, they will still have to administer the network (there *does* seem to be some form of central admin for the system) and pay for bandwidth and hosting. What's their business model for supporting the project? I see no visible source of revenue there. If there is no business model, will it all be run from a residential DSL account somewhere, with attendant performance and scaling problems?

Re:How do they plan to finance the network operati (1)

beegle (9689) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357767)

What's their business model for supporting the project?

According to the Wired News article [wired.com] linked to above, they're going to sell DRM-encoded songs but ship them from end-users' hard drives rather than from a central server.

Looking at the Mercora web site, they seem far more p2p-oriented. I'm guessing that, like Kazaa, they plan on making extra money by installing a metric ton of spyware on your PC.

I rather doubt that... (3, Interesting)

Illissius (694708) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358315)

...seeing as this is from the same guys who made Shareaza, which is the very likely the best P2P app out there right now. It's the first one where I didn't have to fight the program to get it to do what I wanted, it's rather user friendly, has undetectable amounts of bloat (by me, anyways), and installs a total of 0 third party programs (= spyware). And now version 2.0 is open source.
So I'd be inclined to expect good things from them :).

Free webcast? (3, Interesting)

The Hobo (783784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356443)

I thought free internet died with the proverbial dot com fallout.. it will be interesting to see the sustainability of this project. This might also hurt online radio like shoutcast.

promising? (1, Interesting)

W32.Klez.A (656478) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356452)

Every single time a new p2p client comes out, it gets various posts on different tech sites saying how it's the wave of the future, and it seems only a fraction of the time is it even close to being true, and usually it only attains a fraction of the status that it tries to live up to. While I haven't used this one yet, I myself am very skeptical of the hype (yes, hype!) surrounding this new p2p network.

Sure, it includes some features I've never seen in a p2p client before, but so does the new version of Yahoo Messenger. I'd rather see improvements to the structure and robustness of an existing network/program myself (as Soulseek has done) than a bunch of features that I know I'll never use. Then again, I really don't even download anything anymore.

Just my thoughts on this matter.

Legal ? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356455)


legality is based on country of origin and content broadcasted, not the technology

In other words... (2, Interesting)

spacefight (577141) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356475)

Let your friends stream all their sound to you, rip it from the source, tear it apart and create a legal song archive. No, no profit here ;)

Re:In other words... (2, Interesting)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356515)

Let your friends stream all their sound to you, rip it from the source, tear it apart and create a legal song archive. No, no profit here ;)

If they are my friend why not give them a special ftp account or web access to do so. Or why not burn them to cd or dvd and give them that. Seems to much easier and they get the songs they want

Re:In other words... (3, Insightful)

John Hurliman (152784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356930)

More interesting would be tuning in to a station (or a category of stations), lets say classic rock and using a plugin that rips the streams to disk and checks for duplicates. Run it for a few days and you have a nice [category here] collection. This has already been done with Shoutcast, so we might as well adapt to new technology! The RIAA doesn't really care about this happening with FM radio, because the quality is sub-par, but if a web station is streaming at 160kpbs or greater...

Re:In other words... (2, Interesting)

toooldforthiscrap (786228) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358516)

Have you tried stationripper??

bandwidth vs quality? (3, Interesting)

Prince Vegeta SSJ4 (718736) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356480)

How could a single user broadcast a radio with a typical cable/dsl connection?

Would this basically suck up all of the upstream bandwidth, so that basically the quality would suck, or you have an audience of 4.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356512)

MULTICAST!!!

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

thebes (663586) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357064)

why did this get modded down? This makes sense, since that's the usefulness of multicast. In a related idea, how do you think you can image 100+ computers with a 15 GB disc image, over a 100 mbit network which is usually at least 20% in use, all by an old server with one hard drive sitting in a closet, all in about an hour and a half? It's called multicasting, and that's how you would do it. It would be similar to how regular radio works. One source broadcasts, while many clients simply receive the packets if they're tuned in.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356520)

its p2p idiot

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356543)

It would suck your upstream bandwith. You'd have to have a super fast conection to really stream just like any other streaming service.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

spacefight (577141) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356655)

Hm? It's p2p which most probably means that the stream gets forwarded/multiplied by nodes within the network itself.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (2, Insightful)

Otto (17870) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356710)

So what? If you're the original source, and you're wanting to send out 128kbits/sec, then you have to have 128 kbits/sec of bandwidth to send it out, at least. You may not need to support multiple users with this, but you'll still need to be able to stream at a good chunk of speed. Most cable modem/DSL users don't have that much upstream. So unless this thing reencodes at a lower rate, online streaming radio from these people will still suck.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

TLSPRWR (711680) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356982)

Granted, the webcasts won't be CD quality, (or 128 kbits/sec [which is still feasible]), but it wouldn't be horrible quality, like FM or anything. You underestimate the power of broadband.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

Otto (17870) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358822)

Granted, the webcasts won't be CD quality, (or 128 kbits/sec [which is still feasible]), but it wouldn't be horrible quality, like FM or anything. You underestimate the power of broadband.

No, you overestimate it. Okay, so 96k isn't bad.. a lot like a radio quality. Especially in newer formats like AAC and using good encoders.

But if everybody and their dog is trying to stream up 96k streams to elsewhere, the network will totally choke on it. Every pipe is oversold. That's how the network works.

There's perhaps 120 cable modem users on my segment. Probably less, considering my area. My old apartment had almost 400 cable modem users on the segment. And while there was a good 25 megabits running down to those 400 users, it wasn't bidirectional and there was only 2 or 3 megabits up. Now, while the cable modems themselves were limited to 256kbits, during peak usage, upstream could drop as low as 64 kbits or so for me. Especially when the jerks were doing P2P.. the traffic generated by eMule/eDonkey can almost be considered a DOS attack...

So while I had 256k upstream, it was not guaranteed to be that fast. The bandwidth was oversold, like all bandwidth everywhere is. You have an upstream cap, but that amount is not dedicated to you and only you. And it will run out with too many people using it for high bandwidth stuff like this.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

Afty0r (263037) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357404)

you have to have 128 kbits/sec of bandwidth to send it out, at least. You may not need to support multiple users with this, but you'll still need to be able to stream at a good chunk of speed. Most cable modem/DSL users don't have that much upstream.

Yes, most of them do, however I assume you're talking about cable modem/DSL users in the USA?
If that's the case maybe you need to change or lobby your provider to increase upstream bandwidth.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

Otto (17870) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358742)

Yes, most of them do, however I assume you're talking about cable modem/DSL users in the USA?
If that's the case maybe you need to change or lobby your provider to increase upstream bandwidth.


I personally have many times that in upstream bandwidth, however, not everybody has my cable company. I've seen faster, I've seen slower. Very frequently I've seen slower, as if you only use the network for surfing and playing games and such, 768k down and 64k-128k up is perfectly fine for most people's current needs. Only us power users really can take advantage of 4meg down and 512k up or something similar.

And don't forget that there's a choke point as well. As cable modems expand, available bandwidth to those cable modems decrease. DSL has a potential huge amount of bandwidth on each line, but every person connected to the CO is sharing a single network pipe or two leading upstream from there. At some point you always reach critical mass.

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (2, Interesting)

TLSPRWR (711680) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356848)

At one of the few Sonic Fan gaming communities [emulationzone.org] , we have a bi-yearly week long 'E3'-esque expo (S.A.G.E., not currently in operation) [sagexpo.org] , online only. Along with that, we do radio broadcasting during that week. Typically, we only have like 2 or 3 computers with DSL or Cable streaming out the cast including the computer doing the webcast. With enough distribution (say, on a P2P network) you could keep the quality high, and have more than 4 listeners on the webcast (At most, we usually had 20, pretty low-key operation, but you'll see my point, keep reading).

We had to set all that up ourselves, but with this program, it seems to (/could) do it automatically. As a listener ( IP 1.1.1.2) joins the Station (IP 1.1.1.1), they both become distributors of that station's broadcast. So, when the next few listeners come in, they're getting distribution from 1.1.1.1 and 1.1.1.2, plus they distribute that same signal themselves.

Everyone listening through Mercora duplicates the signal and becomes a node to distribute the bandwidth load (or at least has the potential to be).

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9359578)

Sounds like buffering hell, what happens to 1.1.1.3 when 1.1.1.2 has buffering problems? P2P works because you dont really care about the order in which you get fileblocks, as long as sum of available parts equals the complete file everyone is happy.. This would require the blocks to be streamed IN ORDER. Very big difference.
(note to self, must read tech doc on p2p streaming radio)

Re:bandwidth vs quality? (1)

FrO (209915) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357624)

You could probably do something long the lines of what BitTorrent does. Use pieces from different clients on the network to aggregate your total bandwidth.

Howard Stern (3, Insightful)

th1ckasabr1ck (752151) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356482)

Hopefull now everyone will be able to listen to Howard Stern again,

Re:Howard Stern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357615)

Everyone who wants to can. The whole government censorship thing is yet another Stern marketing/publicity stunt, so don't be foolish and buy in to it.

Hmmm (2, Insightful)

in7ane (678796) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356504)

It seems it's a legal loophole project which relies on the fact that you can broadcast (since they got the license) music that you legally own (so what happens when I transfer over my collection from Kazzaa? - who is liable?). There seems to be little useful technology as such. And it's not anonymous, so basically 1st (can't really do multiple sources for broadcasting of things you own and so ripped yourself, can you?) p2p with a an IM/etc. layer tagged on.

And if it catches on there will likely be a patch so save the streams... bringing on a lawsuit or continuos updates/kracks.

Re:Hmmm (1)

aminorex (141494) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357782)

Hardly a loophole. It's quite carefully and
explicitly written into the law, after extensive
lobbying, negotiating, and politicking by the
representatives of the involved commercial
interests.


I don't think (IANAL) that you would incur any
added legal liability by broadcasting content
obtained by copying a source which the copyright
holder did not explicitly grant permission to you
to copy. If you think you would, please post a
citation.

A quick question (4, Insightful)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356516)

Why is it that webcasts/streaming MP3s are legal, when (as far as I know) none of the private "radio" stations listed on Shoutcast etc have licenses to broadcast? Are they (RIAA etc) banking on the client software to not allow stream ripping?

I remember that webcast sites (in essence indexes to internet radio stations) were attacked by the BIG R sometime back...anybody have an update on that?

It seems streaming MP3/RealAudio(lower quality ofcourse) would be the next way to share music, what with Kazaa etal becoming extinct. Ofcourse, Bittorrent, and these webcast stations have the same problem - they need to have an index page to publicize the tracker/links.

Re:A quick question (1)

TheSync (5291) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357277)

Just FYI, to be fully legit, Webcasters must pay fees to copyright holders BMI [bmi.com] , ASCAP [ascap.com] , and SESAC [sesac.com] , as well as to the RIAA [copyright.gov] .

Re:A quick question (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357394)

have you tried station ripper or streamripper?

station ripper seems to miss many splits... streamripper was told to FOAD by live365.com.
For shoutcast, many/most places have fades between the end of the previous and next -- so the splits are messy, at best... you get (1) missed beginnings, (2) missed ends and (3) fade outs and talk overs at the begining and ending of songs

On the other hand, if you don't care.. then you can get most of the stuff. For things like ambient, it doesn't matter... it seems to only be an issue for short files -- such as rock, etc.

I do find it amusing that live365 thinks that no one is recording its streams.

Re:A quick question (1)

Chanc_Gorkon (94133) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357522)

ASCAP and BMI were wanting extra fees. The attack had nothing to do with BIG R. Clear Channel wanted to stream all of their stations, but now only stream Talk Radio and insert different ads over the local ads (THIS item is mostly a BIG R thing....local mom and pops did not want to pay the extra ad money to be streamed).

Re:A quick question (1)

sirshannon (616247) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357675)

for $10 a month, I already prefer Rhapsody over Kazaa. It is MUCH faster, has more selection, and higher quality. It is streaming, but on demand. There are also stations that I occassionally listen to, but the on-demand is the deal.

P2P Webcasting? (5, Informative)

lharmon (786097) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356524)

Sounds like Konspire2b [sourceforge.net] , but not open source, and only for windows.

Besides, the guy who wrote konspire is also the guy who wrote MUTE [sourceforge.net] , so I think he knows a thing or two about P2P.

Re:P2P Webcasting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357226)

Error. It is like PeerCast, www.peercast.org

Re:P2P Webcasting? (1)

IdntUnknwn (700129) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359308)

Er, the guy who wrote Mercora wrote Shareaza and designed the Gnutella2 protocol, so I'm pretty sure he knows a thing or two about P2P as well?

Re:P2P Webcasting? (1)

IdntUnknwn (700129) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359363)

Actually, I wasn't sure if Mercora was actually written by the same guy who wrote Shareaza, despite what it says in the Slashdot summary. So I looked at the Company Info page and found this: "Mercora has been founded by an executive and technical team that previously was instrumental in building companies such as Netscape and McAfee.com, and developing innovative products using peer-to-peer protocols and web based security services." So supposedly they should know the P2P stuff as well :P

legal ? go read the small print on your CD (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356553)


All rights reserved of the producer and of the owner of the recorded work reserved. Unautorised Copying, Public performance, Broadcasting, Hiring or rental of this recording is prohibited

APublic. (noun)

1. The community or the people as a whole.
2. A group of people sharing a common interest: the reading public.
3. Admirers or followers, especially of a famous person. See Usage Note at collective noun.

now IANAL but it seems pretty clear to me its illegal

Re:legal ? go read the small print on your CD (3, Informative)

karmatic (776420) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357442)

First off, the small print on the CD doesn't mean anything, it's Copyright Law that matters. The small print simply tries to explain it (while conveniently neglecting to mention fair use).

Second, the Mercora people have a contract with SoundExchange, AZCap (royalty clearing house), etc. Note: it says Unauthorized. They are paying royalties on it, so it's legal.

Re:legal ? go read the small print on your CD (1)

Dibson (723948) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358167)

uh oh, i guess we better tell all the radio stations to stop broadcasting now

Excellent (4, Interesting)

thedillybar (677116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356562)

I listen to music (usually with Shoutcast [shoutcast.com] ) at work everyday. Some of the best stations I have found are often small and full during the day. I've always thought it would be nice if I could lend some extra bandwidth to keep the station going. The station itself should only stream to users who will re-broadcast the stream. And whoever will rebroadcast using the most bandwidth has the highest priority. If you can't rebroadcast, you simply end up somewhere farther down the food chain, but in the end more people get to listen.

It seems like warez channels have been doing this forever. Once someone gets something, it spends a few days getting passed around all the high-bandwidth providers before it goes to the "public."

I'm glad to see more legal, but free (as in beer) music available. But how long before someone writes a "MyTunes" (or something similar) that allows you to download music (illegally, I'd imagine), off of this service?

Re:Excellent (2, Insightful)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356610)

Then the MyTunes software is illegal, not the broadcasting software.

Re:Excellent (1)

thedillybar (677116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356641)

Oh, no doubt, but that doesn't stop people from getting pissed off and the RIAA going after the company that distributes the broadcasting software.

We've seen this before. The threat of a lawsuit from the RIAA can often shutdown an organization like this long before it gets to court.

What's the catch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356571)

It's run by some corporation, and all corporations are only in it for the money, so what's the catch here?

and the difference to the RIAA is? (1, Interesting)

Bog Standard (743863) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356601)

So transmitting an MP3 for this legal, but transmitting an MP3 for sharing purposes is not? Even thought the contents of the data stream are the same? I can't really see how this is going to work. BS

Re:and the difference to the RIAA is? (2, Insightful)

karmatic (776420) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357521)

"I can't really see how this is going to work."
Maybe it's because you are an idiot, or maybe you didn't RTFA.

The reason this is legal is because they are licensing the music. For every song that plays, they pay. For example, ASCAP is one of the big licensing groups. To play 1,000,000,000 (1 billion) songs, of which 1/3 are theirs, only costs $40,200 if you use fee schedule C.

The question remains, how do they plan on making money? Do they?

Wonder how long this will last.... (3, Insightful)

karlandtanya (601084) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356607)

How do I share pictures on Mercora?
You share pictures on Mercora right from your local directory on your computer. You "tell" the Mercora client about which pictures you want to share and with whom (people on your friends list, etc.) and those pictures can then be viewed by those people when you are both online on the Internet. People who have the permission to view your pictures will also have the ability to download those pictures.


Hmmm...look--somene is sharing Harry_Potter_the_Everlasting_MoneyMill.jpg.


This should be interesting.

Re:Wonder how long this will last.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356712)

If all you can complain about is the spelling, everyone assumes you support the content.

Actually, I assume it means the reader couldn't get far enough past the technical failures of the post to even consider the content. Spelling is important, despite popular belief on Slashdot.

Rules of Webcasting...it's basically useless (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9356619)

The website gives you the impression that you can webcast the files you have to your friends. However, the restrictions on this (to be legal) make it basically useless to how the majority of people would use this anyway. Read below for the restrictions:

You are not allowed to do any of the following things:

* Publish advance program guides or use other means to pre-announce when particular sound recordings will be streamed or the order in which they will be streamed (this is because we are a non-interactive webcasting service)
* Webcast specific sound recordings within one hour of the request by a listener or at a time designated by the listener
* Webcast audio content for which you do not have the legitimate legal rights for use (music you have ripped from CDs that you own or music you have downloaded from a legitimate online music store like Apple iTunes is considered legitimate, music downloaded using file-sharing programs like KaZaA are not legitimate)

Re:Rules of Webcasting...it's basically useless (1)

CrosbieFitch (694308) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356814)

But someone could do the following:

1) Publish the fact that they possess a particular CD.
2) Accept requests to stream this CD no sooner than 60 minutes after it's been requested.
3) Declare that it's a CD they legitimately obtained.

So this is just like Kazaa except guaranteeing you won't get your stuff sooner than an hour.

Very little difference really.

Re:Rules of Webcasting...it's basically useless (2, Funny)

Rick.C (626083) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357504)

You are not allowed to do any of the following things:
* Webcast specific sound recordings within one hour of the request by a listener or at a time designated by the listener

So at 14:00 I'll request, "Please play Song-A at any time ~except~ between 16:00 and 16:05. TIA" and I'm legal, right?

Like Peercast (5, Informative)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356622)

This sounds something like PeerCast.. is that true?

I've tried PeerCast before -- neat idea, but it simply isn't practical -- not many people have enough bandwidth to relay a 128kbps stream realiably, and every time I tried it I got nothing but stuttering and skipping.

How is this different from PeerCast? (4, Informative)

Kaimelar (121741) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356627)

The maker of P2P Client, Shareaza, is working on a new Radio P2P project called Mercora. This network gives users the ability legally webcast music to other users on the network.

How is this different from PeerCast [peercast.org] ? I glanced at the Web site, and didn't see anything that was revolutionary -- looks like PeerCast combined with IRC to me.

Though, perhaps they have fixed the problems PeerCast seems to have with bandwidth -- I've used it off and on, but it seems to always suffer from lag. Perhaps that would go away if there were more users, or perhaps it's just inherent in the design of the network -- I've never bothered to look at the technical details.

Anyway, I think the more exposure Webcasting has, the better. More variety, smaller players that can appeal to niche audiences, and lack of corporate interests playing to the lowest common denominator for the highest advertising profits are all advantages Webcasting has over traditional, ClearChannel-dominated radio. At the moment, at least. :-)

Its not a new network or technology. (3, Informative)

Adolph_Hitler (713286) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356679)


The network is nice, I admit I use it myself but its not new technology. This also is not a new network because I've been using it for a while. I don't know why this site decides to post this to the top of the page when other P2P news far more important is not posted.

Did you know MUTE developer Jason Rohrer will be speaking at the 5th International Free Software Forum in Porto Alegre, Brazil?

View some slides Slide1 [sourceforge.net]
and notes Slide2 [sourceforge.net]

Lets also not forget that Shareaza is open source now.

The Most Important Question! (3, Insightful)

Cpt_Kirks (37296) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356737)

Can you get pr0n off it?

What's Needed for Licensed Broadcasters... (3, Insightful)

infofreako (194212) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356796)

At this point there is giant void between 'hobby' P2P webcasting solutions like this and PeerCast and P2P-Radio (http://p2p-radio.sourceforge.net/) and the professional applications like Abacast, ChainCast and the others. The hobbyist applications fail to deliver the counting tools needed for us to report our listenership numbers appropriately to ASCAP, BMI and the others and still have some flaws in terms of functionality. The proprietary options have these tools available but they are currently not much of a savings compared to the traditional bandwidth options.

What's needed is something like Shoutcast which provides a professional means of distribution, but built on a P2P architecture. To my knowledge that simply doesn't exist, but I have my fingers crossed. As a new webcaster who sees his listenership growing week after week, there may come a time when I can no longer afford to be popular without a REAL P2P webcast solution.

-pjc

Re:What's Needed for Licensed Broadcasters... (1)

CrosbieFitch (694308) | more than 10 years ago | (#9356855)

Check out RawFlow [rawflow.com]

radio broadcast (2, Interesting)

vmircea (730382) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357056)

This is definitely a promising idea, but it would get really complicated, I for one at home only have about 30kilobytes a second upload, which is barely enough to radio one song to one person, and would also severely lag me. This kind of thing would probably end up having the people with larger connections all serving the people with smaller pipes, and the people with smaller pipes not giving back (mostly because it is hard). And also, the media industries will probably jump on the legality of this because they don't like these kind of things... because noone will actually serve only music that they legally own, they will also serve music that they downloaded from kazaa and other variations, because not that many people use itunes compared to the people who get songs illegally.

How these people get money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9357337)

How these people get money?

Are they using spyware or adware, or what?

Re:How these people get money? (2, Insightful)

jtids (786024) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357387)

I dunno. I don't think the program contains Ad-ware or spyware though. Perhaps they are just decent people ;D

Related Links (1)

BiggyP (466507) | more than 10 years ago | (#9357409)

Here are some Projects that may be of interest to readers.

Streamer P2P Radio [streamerp2p.com]
AudioScrobbler [audioscrobbler.com]
Last FM [www.last.fm]

mod 0P (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9358001)

Was after a long over the same the channel to sign time i'm done here, The project is in

An internet within the internet ? (1)

siyavash (677724) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358227)

What a lame stupid fucking program... "they can broadcast music, chat and use forums"... You guys are so dumb and the ones making the app are even more stupid !!!

JUST USE THE GOD DAMN FUCKING INTERNET !!! I can broadcast Radio, Chat and use forums on the fucking Internet !!!

Stupid stupid stupid... !"#@$@

The edna project. (2, Interesting)

Koatdus (8206) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358353)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/edna/

Edna is a py script that will stream MP3 files over a network or the internet. It has a nice web front end and if you scan the cover art and drop it into the directory it will display in the web page. The main difference though is that there is no easy way to find your edna server on the internet ... you have to know where it is.

At home I have ripped almost all of my and my kids CD's and can listen to them on any PC in the house. Streaming 2 or 3 songs at once doesn't seem to tax the network.

One of my future projects is to put together a (silent) media room PC so that I will be able to pipe MP3's through my main stereo and play them on the speakers in the back yard. (Pool Party!) Right now I have to go inside every once in a while and feed new cd's into the changer.

I can also listen to my entire collection at work, ether by opening up a port to my home network DMZ or by tunneling via SSH or VPN.

It works pretty well. My DSL connection can stream a 128mb MP3 file ok. If I try to stream 2 files however at the same time my DSL line can not handle the upload without pauses. Downloading 2 streams at once though the DSL

One of my co-workers set up an Edna server at home. Listening to 2 streams at once over his cable modem connection works just fine, no pausing.

I also know someone who is putting together a wi-fi enabled system to go in his car. When that is done he will be able to park in his driveway and sync his MP3 collections between his car Edna server and his home Edna server. (hopefully he is reading up on iptables)

All "Hey Ya", All The Time? (1)

writertype (541679) | more than 10 years ago | (#9358800)

Are there provisions to prevent "microstations" from springing up? If I don't take requests, but people know they can listen to "Hey Ya" or some other dreck all the time, it's essentially peer-to-peer file sharing, right?

For example, if the client is small enough, I may be able to run five instantiations of the server through different ports, playing five different songs over and over. Then, if someone could come up with an intermediary service to check what songs people are advertising that they have available, users could be "assigned" to broadcast songs, theoretically providing one or several songs to each person to continuously broadcast all the time.

Which might be kind of cool.

"Hey, who are you on Mercora"?
"Dude, I'm "Smells Like Teen Spirit"!
"Sweet! I landed "Tangled Up in Blue."
"Steve, who are you?"
"Batdance."
"..."

Super Annoying Program. (1)

crhylove (205956) | more than 10 years ago | (#9359445)

It runs every time Winblows starts, and there's no turning it off short of uninstalling. That's a deal breaker for me. Now I need a reformat. *sigh*
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