Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Native American Wireless ISP Launched

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the neat-stuff dept.

Wireless Networking 301

babynerd writes "On Tuesday June 1st the Coeur dAlene tribe unveiled the Turbocharged Broadband Geek Project. The scheme, organized by project head Valerie Fast Horse and funded by a $2.8 million dollar grant from the USDA Rural Utilities Service and a 15% in kind match from the tribe itself, will help build a community technology center (CTC) with 40 computers, and a wireless broadband ISP that will provide high-speed wireless access to anyone living on and near the reservation at a price comparable to that of any other DSL or Cable Internet providers - there's currently no broadband Internet access of any kind available."

cancel ×

301 comments

pf (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360273)

fist porst?

Free Porn in efnet #politics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360274)

In an effort to get more people into our failing channel, we have set up several XDCC bots to bring you the latest in high quality gay/straight porn, warez, mp3z and romz. All hosted on a 100mb line by #Politics mainstay FreeTrade.
To gain access to this you must do the following:
1. Join #politics on efnet
2. wait to be voiced by our bot
3. make use of the following triggers -
!picklesex for the latest porn
!picklerom for roms
!picklewarez for warez
!picklemp3 for mp3s

And be sure to enjoy your stay at #politics, efnets premiere warez and boylove discussion channel
This message was brought to you by Pickle`, a #politics opper who is happy to serve.

Re:Free Porn in efnet #politics (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360290)

Hah...your feeble fp attempts are no match for my own, lewser.

what are those mini-Vegas' for? (3, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360275)

My biggest complaint about this is that the non-natives are funding this venture through the USDA Rural Utilities Service... Why doesn't their own tribe [cdacasino.com] fund this effort? I have a feeling that they making more than enough money there to foot the $2.8 million bill themselves. Isn't that what those things are on reservations for? To build better Native American communities?

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (4, Insightful)

themaddone (180841) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360294)

Oh, gee, you know, trivial things like roads and schools, stuff the Gov't doesn't really fund.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360405)

Oh so you are claiming that they spend ALL their money on other infastructure and are non-profit thus they don't have the 2.8 million for this venture.

I can't speak for this particular reservation but the ones I have seen in WI and MN certainly are not helping build roads and taking care of their people as well as you infer that they are.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (4, Informative)

irokitt (663593) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360581)

I live within driving distance of about 4 reservations, 3 of which have casinos. 2 of those are less than 10 minutes from me.

By and large, those two casinos send most of their money to out-of-state banks that fronted the money to build the casinos in the first place (and those banks are connected to Vegas). That will taper down once the casinos have paid most of the debt off. Some of the money gets sent to the state in the form of "taxes" (that's right, in order to have a casino the tribes do pay the state money). The rest gets split up amongst the reservation, tribal members, and employees (not all of whom are tribe members).

In my community, the nearby casinos have paid millions of dollars (about 4 million total) to widen roads and improve the traffic situation-things which have been needed for a long time (a decade and a half) but didn't start to happen until casinos were built and the money became available. Both nearby reservations are undergoing environmental cleanup, since years of mis-management have made them polluted, dangerous places to live. Schools desperately needing rebuilding have been rebuilt.

There are a lot of things that are bad about the casinos. I personally don't like to gamble and blame the casinos for the surge in DUI activity that I've seen around here. But at least here, where I am, some of that money is being very well spent and the tribes, who were historically shown the finger by both state and local governments, are worlds removed from the state they were in just a decade ago.

You stoopid white boy. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360481)

We "Native Americans" love you naive foreigners.

Can you open or operate a casino? No! But I can.
Can you get US Government grants? No! But I can.
Can you siphon off massive amounts of money from your "own people" as well as a bunch of ignorant "foreigners"? No! But I can.

I can do all these things, right in your face. And I can make you think that it is all for the better good. I love you man.

Silent Bear

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (1, Flamebait)

TheGavster (774657) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360548)

At least in Connecticut, the state pays for the roads, and the neighboring towns cover the schools and the extra police to keep their out-of-control gangster children from killing people (they actually beat someone nearly to death outside a school, and assaulted a police officer on the grounds of a school). The millions that they roll in each day pretty much go to the weekly pair of hundred-dollar Nikes for the aforementioned kids, and of course the large number of congresspersons that it takes to keep such an operation tax free.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (1)

jrl (4989) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360685)

But you can't have it both ways.

I argue for the right of the "sovereign nations" in California to not pay taxes on their gambling enterprises. This is mostly because of the agreements we've made with the tribes in the past.

However, based on the doublestandard and greed I am seeing by those who run the casino's I'm changing my tune. You can't argue for receiving money from taxes and not pay taxes. If you want the freedom that comes with being a sovereign nation, you get the responsibility too.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (3, Insightful)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360345)

Why doesn't their own tribe fund this effort?

Because the tribe, as are most casino operators, are good business men. They know a good investment when they see one and they know how to take advantage of an opportunity to make more money.

Looking at it from a business perspective, it isn't very attractive at all. However, looking at it from the perspective of using someone else's money to provide yourselve's with services is quite attractive. Hence, the casino avoids such investments and the tribe benefits. It's sort of the same way that government grants support crappy research projects that the private sector wouldn't touch.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (2, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360577)

Who's We?, and why isn't "They" part of "We". I was strangely under the impression that so called "native americans" were citizens of this country and have the right to vote.

I also don't recall killing anyones ancestors, and I don't know anyone who did. This "we" and "they" crap is missleading. There's no we, and there's no they.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (2, Informative)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360380)

If they're anything like the Indian tribes in California, they're simply spending too much money bribing politicians to have anything left for useful stuff.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (4, Insightful)

Saxton (34078) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360432)

Have you ever driven through a Native American reservation? If we're compensating them, where did we go wrong? Seems like we sent some people into the top 5% tax bracket and left the rest of the tribes in the lowest levels of poverty. Not as nasty as killing their ancestors and forcing them into the worst parts of the country, but it's still pretty bad.

-Aaron

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360478)

Seems like we sent some people into the top 5% tax bracket and left the rest of the tribes in the lowest levels of poverty.

Oh, so WE sent them there now? In your opinion, do these people not have any ability to shape their own lives?

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (3, Insightful)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360532)

Given that they're living under a Soviet-style planned economy, they aren't free to shape their own lives.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360554)

Given that they're living under a Soviet-style planned economy, they aren't free to shape their own lives.

They can leave the reservation, or try to organize a better economic structure for their tribes. No one's forcing them to run things that way.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (4, Informative)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360650)

They can leave the reservation,

Many have, my ancestors included. Others are trapped by economic circumstances. Still other don't want their culture to die.

or try to organize a better economic structure for their tribes. No one's forcing them to run things that way.

Ah, another ignorant AC. Actually, the Bureau of Indian Affairs pretty much requires a planned economy for the tribes. A couple of tribes have gotten permission from the BIA to have a freer economy, and they have succeeded. But in general, the vast majority of tribes in this country are forced to have 5 year economic plans by the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360437)

Oh I see you white man come and destroy all the Native American land and you complain because you have to pay for some benefit to the people who lived here before you. Remember what really made America great was all the resources and people it destroyed to build it. That's why America is slowly declining now- because it's almost drained it's native resources of land, air and water and people.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360565)

Yeah, this nation sure is running out of land, air, water, and people.

Go elsewhere, you cockmongering choad loader.

With thier own ISP... (2, Interesting)

haute_sauce (745863) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360545)

They can enter into the on-line gambling business ! And look at the advantages: It will not go off shore to Singapore !

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (1)

mstanisl (766265) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360568)

I am so incredibly sorry that you, someone completely unaffected by this instance in every possible way -- is angry at the correct allocation of funding. Perhaps you should do a little more research into a tribe such as the Coeur d'Alene before you start getting 'angry' about non-native funding and making pot-shots about their usage of casions to provide money for their lives. No, they are not on the reservations to build better communities. If you new a single thing about ACTUAL native american culture, you would understand that the Native American commumities as they stand are mostly in shambles. And yes, it is all of our fault from past instances. (Need I jump into Pratt and Carlisle, PA?) Please don't get all upity about people funding projects which actually enrich the culture (without forcing it) -- I am always watching for such acts to occur... as does my former Native American studies teacher loves in college.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360700)

Then don't be a soverign nation. The tribes should not have the best of both worlds. They should not be considered under a rural fund out of American tax monies when they are their own nation.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Re:what are those mini-Vegas' for? (0, Troll)

dustinbarbour (721795) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360734)

I agree! It has been how long since the evil white man destroyed their way of life? I for one, respect the fact that they lived here prior to the American expansion, but modern native americans need to get with the times and realize that their way of life is freakin' dead. As such, they need to quit holding to these reservations and join the real world. If some poor Vietnamese kid can come to America and be a millionaire in a decade, natives can do the same thing. I'm getting tired of all the handouts and special treatment. They shop in stores jsut like me.. not kill their food like they used to. And even then, I'm tired of this noble savage image that they've taken advantage of. I mean, when their ancestors moved into this continent they caused the extinction of numerous large mammals (mastadons and such are the msot well-known). Sure, they didn't have guns, but once white man brought 'em from Europe, the natives were all about using them to slaughter each other. They are no more noble than any other race of human.

Back to the point, though. Get with the times folks and quit depending on government handouts. Better yet, America.. take away the nipple everyone is suckling on!

Here comes the -1 Troll!

Smoke Signals (5, Funny)

Greenisus (262784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360277)

...very slow bandwidth . . . .

Re:Smoke Signals (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360295)

Yes, but the smoke signal version of 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes' was recomended by Monty Python.

Re:Smoke Signals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360362)

I vote funny for you, but I vote annonymously because I'm a coward...

now they can say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360674)

...All your teepee are belong to us.

Re:Smoke Signals (4, Funny)

owlstead (636356) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360691)

Yes, but if you tend your fire carefully you can achieve an always on connection. During daytime, that is...

Wi-Fi Power (3, Insightful)

cgrayson (22160) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360281)

If there's ever a sequel to Smoke Signals [imdb.com] :

"Hey Victor! Your mother makes the best wi-fi!"

Seriously - great movie, set on the Coeur d'Alene reservation in present day (well, present day six years ago). You'll laugh, you'll cry, it'll become a part of you.

Re:Wi-Fi Power (1)

acariquara (753971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360624)

Interesting title... Well, Wi-Fi does have a strong power, if well implemented and they get the protocols right.

I for one saw mini revolutions happenning when communications go wireless. Think "third world", or maybe better, "Developing Nations".

As many of you already know, I live in Brazil and while there are areas with technology comparable to NY/California/etc, the largest area of the country lives behind a chasm of difference and exclusion.

Nevertheless, TV has a large penetration (ugh) here. Think GloboTV (reaches over 99% of the Brazilian Territory). The single most important factor that allows this is, well, the wireless nature of aerial TV signals.

Wireless is not just a trend. I am sure it is the key to provide cultural integration and I am not saying that just to sound pretty... Look what happened to cell phones. You do not have to be in the center of the Amazon rainforest to perceive the benefits of going wireless (and yes, there is GSM coverage in some cities there).

Apart from the recreative side of the 'net, there are important uses for it ranging from the everyday internet banking to emailing or IMing a fellow MD seeking for help with some rare tropical virii. I know, I was there (that's the reason of the nickname Acariquara, it is the name of a particurlarly resilient tree that grows there).

$2.8 Million? (4, Insightful)

tmasssey (546878) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360306)

Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of money for 40-computer technology center and a wireless ISP contained for a community?

That seems like enough for a *heck* of a buildout and, what? 10 years of expenses? How can I get a piece? :)

Re:$2.8 Million? (4, Interesting)

Cat_Byte (621676) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360449)

I used to work for a company (which will remain nameless) that installed networks for public schools. You wouldn't BELIEVE what they charged. It was way up in the 6 digits just for the cat-5 runs. Then they would have their $15,000 router I was supposed to install with no WAN. I was supposed to "make it blink and serve DHCP or something". Needless to say I quit when I was repeatedly asked to lie for my boss about why they had a million dollars worth of hardware for a grade-school lab. My guess is someone did the same thing to this tribe after they found out how much the grant was. Inflat x% until you use up the whole amount.

Re:$2.8 Million? (2, Interesting)

ElForesto (763160) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360551)

It wouldn't surprise me on that. Contractors have been ripping off government agencies on projects since... well... whenever. Here in the Las Vegas area, the school district has a mandatory furniture replacement policy. Regardless of wear and tear, all the furniture is ripped out every 2 years for new pieces. And yet, somehow, we are told there isn't enough money for schools...

I think a good moral to this story is to keep a watchful eye on government spending, and don't be afraid to speak up.

I just realized this had little to do with the original story, so... I wonder if they're using WiFi or WiMAX?

Re:$2.8 Million? (1)

stimpleton (732392) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360689)

Cat Byte has encountered a little known fact of life in (community) funded IT work.
A friend of mine works in a funding agency for the government. He has this to say:

"Community based funding schemes create a Land Grab mentality for key stakeholders. We know that the real target for the funding miss out or recieve sub par service. However, the political reality is that it must be seen that:
1) The funding is available.
2) The funding has been distributed
Often the key requirement is that balance sheets and reports show X amount of funding this year.
Post accountibilty is often low due to the target organization".

Now we get to Cat Byte's situation, and one I've been in. We, as IT workers, are often in the front line trenches. We are involved in, and often expose existing(often manual) systems through requirements analysis, systems analysis, and development.
We often expose more than any audit.
What we expose is not pretty, and often embarrasing to managers and stakeholders.
But it is a community based scheme. No one wants to expose faults in the system: from funding eligbilty to post approval accountibilty.
We can often not stomach "sleeping with dogs".
We leave, integrity intact.

Re:$2.8 Million? (3, Insightful)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360466)

Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of money for...

2.8 Mill may seem like a lot of cash to you and me, but realistically, it doesn't buy a lot of IT these days. My guess is that building the facility and purchasing the 40 computers and associated equipment don't actually leave a whole lot for the wireless ISP end of the deal, which itself could consume 2.8 mill, easy. It's sad, but that kind of money is relativly minor for an IT investment of this type.

Re:$2.8 Million? (1)

taniwha (70410) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360607)

err - look at the photos they will answer at least part of your answer ..... back-hoes .... they aren't just buying 40 computers .... they're building a building to put them in ....

Internet (0, Troll)

Agret (752467) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360309)

The native American's may have internet but they got it through the central American government, can't they afford to pay for it themselves rather than paying a government for internet access...

You can call me... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360316)

Dances with Packets :)

Jesus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360393)

Smoke signals, ok, flamebait but the parent is *supposed* to be funny.

Remember, this is Slashdot, not exactly PC...

"organized by project head Valerie Fast Horse" (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360321)

Valerie Slow Horse prefers a floppy disk for data transfer...

Re:"organized by project head Valerie Fast Horse" (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360701)

I don't know, but an ISP headed by Chief Fast Horse has some positive chime to it.

Coeur d'Alene (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360331)

Isn't that where all the right-wing neo-Nazis hang out? Or am I thinking of somewhere else in Idaho?

Just one more thing for the medicine man... (0, Troll)

Caedar (635764) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360337)

Whenever their broadband line goes down, I'm sure that everyone in the village will ask the local shaman to revive their connection with his medicine bag.

Re:Just one more thing for the medicine man... (1)

Caedar (635764) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360474)

What, you people can't spot a joke when you see it? Do I have to add a little smiley or [THAT WAS A JOKE] tag at the end?

Mod: -1 Offtopic

Re:Just one more thing for the medicine man... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360617)

No, you just need to get a decent sense of humour. That was slightly offensive but more importantly, not remotely funny.

Maybe they will compete with white men's ISPs (4, Interesting)

prostoalex (308614) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360341)

I live in Spokane, 15 minute drive from CdA, and hopefully this project, if it succeeds, will bring more wireless into the area.

Right now the greater Spokane area is pretty much monopolized by Qwest's DSL (available some places) and Comcast's cable (available pretty much anywhere else). For a city with 300K plus total population it's a shame.

Re:Maybe they will compete with white men's ISPs (1)

ElForesto (763160) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360582)

We've had a LOT of wireless ISPs come and go in Las Vegas, and I think it proves that low-range 802.11 isn't going to cut it. The cost of deploying so much equipment is staggering, and with excellent service (and superior advertising) from the local cable company plus DSL being offered by the local telco yields very few customers to choose from. It's also fixed to your location; no roaming laptop access for you! Until WiMAX (802.16) is hammered out, I doubt that many wireless ISPs will flourish. The cost of starting the business is just too high.

Re:Maybe they will compete with white men's ISPs (1)

prostoalex (308614) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360692)

This guy totally agrees with you [alwayson-network.com] , except for the WiMAX part - he thinks that even WiMAX will commoditize the industry and not allow for startup companies.

Netcraft confirms it.... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360347)

Too bad they ain't running [netcraft.com] Apache... maybe they've had bad experiences in the past?

Re:Netcraft confirms it.... (1)

sulli (195030) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360428)

The White Mountain Apache Tribe [netcraft.com] does run Apache, however.

I'm going to try and buy it (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360349)

For a handful of beads!

Posted Anonymously, because I don't want my tribe to know...

About time. (2, Funny)

Blue Eagle 26 (683113) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360365)

The old smoke signals had terrible throughput!

Re:About time. (2, Funny)

acariquara (753971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360453)

Yeah, but that was not because of link reliability as much of extra bits that were unneeded. The ancient PoS (Packet-over-Smoke) protocol was *really* a POS.

When SSNeP [getrealistic.com] was introduced the overall performance reached full potential.

Out-sourcing Call Centers? (2, Insightful)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360702)

The parent probably is flamebait, but funny none the less. Given the lack of humor show here in the modding, I should probably keep my mouth shut about the possibility of out-sourcing call centers to them (ducks...)

Great... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360397)

Now homeowners associations can keep Indians from putting antenae on thier tee pees

Real Free Community Wireless Networking (4, Interesting)

tomwhore (10233) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360413)

Want to see what you can get from donations and volunteer efforts?

http://www.personaltelco.net [personaltelco.net]

2.8 million would be nice to have, do not get me wrong. Given what we are doing for what we have it would mean a heck of a lot of coverage.

I want (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360416)

...a wireless network in my teepee too!

All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360424)


The monetary grants handed out to native Americans does nothing but promote laziness. I've been on reservations before, and seen what goes on. I've known people on the reservations, and seen the attitudes.

Why in the world do we spend tax dollars to let native Americans surf porn and do email? If the idea was to give them a better quality of life, maybe we should offer them education instead.

Oh, wait! We do! If you're a native American, you're virtually guaranteed a scholarship to go to college. Chances are that you won't pay a single dime out of your pocket to go - IF YOU WANT TO. Those who go rarely stay on the reservation, they go make their way in the world. Those on the reservation are the ones who won't even bother to take a FREE EDUCATION to improve their lives.

How, exactly, is this connectivity to the Internet going to help them?

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360472)

let me guess, you are white ?
its good that American Natives are doing this, makes a change from the white squatters that enslaved them and gave them virus infected blankets

i guess MLK taught you nothing, not suprising really white americans never where the sharpest tools in the box

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360506)

You, sir, are an idiot.

First, what is it that the American natives are DOING, according to you? Getting $2.8 million to set up an ISP? The post you replied to had an excellent point but you seem to be in support of endless welfare for individuals who have repeatedly demonstrated their lack of will to change their lives for the better.

Yes, the native Americans did suffer greatly at the hands of the expansionist Americans. Does that mean that the ones alive today aren't responsible for their plight? Come the fuck on, you moron. If your life sucks, it's because you suck.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360564)

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360600)

Too bad you couldn't respond to him with a valid argument in your defense. Good job at avoiding a debate you couldn't possibly win!

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (-1, Troll)

spacecowboy420 (450426) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360726)

I am not a racist, bigot or a hater of any kind and I am simply tired of living with this fucking white man's guilt.

America's ancestors were wrong. You can never be completely compensated and neither can the African Americans. But there is one simple fact your missing:

I didn't do it. My family wasn't even here when the pricks did their nastiness. I didn't enslave anyone either.

I sure as hell pay for your ass and the other minorities to go to fucking school though.

I even fought for this country, got the GI bill, and I am still $45000 in debt from school. So to you fucker, *your* ass wasn't poisoned, massacred, and I didn't do it to your ancestors. These reparations are fucking ludicrous. Your ancestors deserve compensation from those of that era, but *you* don't deserve a dime from me. Should we imprison Jeffrey Dahmer's family?

Quite playing the fucking victim and tell your people to get off of their asses and get a job instead of living off the gov.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (1, Insightful)

slow train (683508) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360492)

All handouts tend to increase laziness. This is the reason why the economies of continental Europe severely lag behind that of the US.

Without incentive to work, people work less. Simple economics there.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360543)

uhm Europe now has a bigger GDP and more people than USA
so it is USA that is lagging

The EU as presently constituted has a bigger share of world trade than the USA. That difference has increased with EU enlargement. However, while the US runs an international trade deficit, the EU runs a trade surplus. The fact that the USA now has to negotiate on international trade with the EU as a single entity and can no longer pick off individual countries is a source of irritation in some US quarters.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (0, Offtopic)

radish (98371) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360725)

Severly lag? You need to check some facts. According to wikipedia [wikipedia.org] the US and EU have basically the same GDP. How is that "lag"?

i smell a jealous white boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360495)


you steal their land and then you complain ?
LMFAO
you aint even begun to pay back what you did to them

Re:i smell a jealous white boy (3, Insightful)

el-spectre (668104) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360612)

Wow, I didn't realize that we had posters that were around in the 1800's. They should really be ashamed of themselves.

The natives got screwed royally. No one denies that. This does not mean that white people are evil for the rest of time. Funny how people decry racism until it fits their needs...

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (4, Insightful)

jjjefff (525754) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360537)

Maybe the idea here is that by giving them a handout with potentially limitless educational value, we increase the odds that at least a few more of them will be motivated and have the resources to get out there and make it on their own.

I suppose you think fertilizer encourages laziness in plants...

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (1)

mstanisl (766265) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360596)

Did you go on these imaginery reservations in your dreams? I found it astounding that you are speaking about the laziness of Native Americans without so much as mentioning the cultural differences between us and them that may keep them on their reservations. More so the reasons of family and loyalty that would rather have them try and provide food for their families then go off to college. But thank you for your insight into a false reality.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (1, Insightful)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360597)

Why in the world do we spend tax dollars to let native [sic] Americans surf porn...

and...

If the idea was to give them a better quality of life, maybe we should offer them education instead.

First of all, what makes you think their plan is to use WiFi to surf porn? Is that your primary Internet use other than trolling on Slashdot? In many rural areas (you must be a city dweller), educational opportunities are in fact taken advantage of over the Internet.

As to your other comments, of course they are pure bullshit, too. You seem bitter. Get turned down for the party school of you choice and have to go to Community College instead?

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (1)

wahsapa (767922) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360610)

when your 'native american high school' is a half-assed day care facility like the rest of the public schools in the us(native americans are to poor for private k-12 schools) then maybe the 'higher' education complaint becomes a little more apprant that free or not, you have to value education and poor public schools do not teach this. the bases for higher education is lacking on indian reservations. how much easier and faster have you learned things on the net? maybe they wouldnt have the health and welfare statistics they have if reservations were in the middle of cities(ie: l.a. and latios) and not in the middle of nowhere america(with no jobs). lazy is lazy, but they'll kill the shit out of a bear. but seeing as how you TOOK there LAND to BUILD YOUR CITIES and killed them all while doing it might have a little to do with their current situation

-1 American racist (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360619)


thats what USA is good at right ?
slavery, persecution, xenophobia are all great american traditions, just dont mention the Jews

Re:-1 American racist (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360672)

Maybe you can go visit a reservation and learn that what the parent talks about is a very real problem. These people have ample opportunity to change their lives; this has been ensured by the many freebies they can take advantage of, courtesy the US federal gov't. Why aren't they taking advantage of these freebies? Why do they choose to remain poor and uneducated when there are government programs in place specifically for them so that they can improve their situation?

Oh that's right... expecting people to improve their own lives doesn't jive with the "let's blame the white man" liberals, so it is some kind of backward, redneck way of thinking.

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (1)

notchcode (747923) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360631)

Grants in and of themselves aren't a solution...but grants directed into something that enriches both the community and the individuals within that community, like, say, an internet-enabled community center, and offering internet service (that the users will still have to PAY to use, by the way)...well, what the heck is wrong with that?

If you object to this, then perhaps you also think that opening up an after-school youth activities program in a predominantly african-american or hispanic urban community?

The values are the same: Bring people together, give individuals something to do other than self-destructive behavior that pervades much (but not all) of the culture of places as diverse as the urban street to the rez....help more people become internet-literate (just as written literacy was so important in the 19th century and visual literacy was so important in the 20th century)...

I could go on. But I won't waste my breath. You're either baiting this thread, or just ignorant. either way, you're entitled to your opinion, even if you're wrong ;)

Re:All right, this will get me flamed, I'm sure. (4, Informative)

jestered1 (537899) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360705)

"Why in the world do we spend tax dollars to let native Americans surf porn and do email?"
For the same damn reason we use tax dollors to let every Tom, Dick and Harry surf porn and do email from almost every public library in the U.S.. Fedral grants are handed out $millions at a time to put desktops in public schools or fund a new program at univeristies. Why does a tech grant to a tribe raise your ire any more than them?

Furthermore, how much do you know about tribes' "per-capita" payments, or scholorship programs? They're not simply tax money diverted from your pocket to their account. Many are the result of interest from trust-fund-like accounts, large lawsuit settlements against the gov't and income from tribe run organizations. And before anyone complains about a tribe's right to have those types of funds, realize that they are from treaties that the government signed, or lawsuits where the U.S. justice system found the government in fault.

Anonymous coward, indeed.

/. humor (1)

wahsapa (767922) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360427)

-insert lame indian joke here-

Re:okay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360690)

How?

This is really wierd! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360441)

I'm starting to think my history teacher is psychic. Today, we watched Smoke Signals in class and now there is this in the news. Last week, we finished talking about Ronald Reagan, now he died. A while back, we talked about Elia Kazan in the 50's, within a week, he died. Wierd...

I should get him to talk about Bill Gates...

Re:This is really wierd! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360530)

...or better yet, yourself.

Re:This is really wierd! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360536)


No! Bush and Cheyney!

Gambling... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360444)

Does that mean I can gamble over wifi now?

How! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360457)

Pale face come bearing insecure protocol.

doh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360460)

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a fast horse carrying a big bag of mag-tapes...

(No insult to Native Americans implied, just using the opportunity for a pun)

What about north of the lake? (1)

MycroftMkIV (197922) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360508)

This takes care of broadband south of Lake Coeur d'Alene. What about north? Coeur d'Alene and Hayden (where I live) are both north of the lake. Would be nice, but I think this is probably just for the tribe, not nontribals like me.

Mike

Re:What about north of the lake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360594)

You mean that they don't have broadband at your neighborhood white supremecist compound?

Re:What about north of the lake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360640)

This project is intended to benefit non-tribal community members as well as tribal members. You might want to contact the tribe to see if there will be any coverage for your area.

USDA Rural Utilities Service (5, Informative)

Scottm87 (689558) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360510)

Intresting the history behind this organization... It started as one of the "alphabet soup" programs under Roosevelt during the Great Depression to help provide both employment and electrify the Nation's rural farms. The program was very successful, and established rural "electric cooperatives" that allowed a number of individuals to form their own electric substation at a fraction of the price of the major electric companies. It recieved a lot of flak along with other New Deal projects because it evoked a socialist-like image, and the "red scare" was part of the period. Later, the Rural Electrification project got squished together into the a small piece of the USDA. I wonder if this is the future of the project - if so, it will play a major part at bringing the nation cheap broadband access.

Re:USDA Rural Utilities Service (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360587)

just another damn social program buried thousands of pages deep in some huge appropriations bill.

meanwhile, tax and spend liberals cry "we can't afford a tax cut". what a fucking joke. how about spending on some legitimate priorities first, before complaining that the gov doesn't have enough of our money to operate (currently, they steal roughly 50% of our income).

and on a side note, since these indians are now high tech, i wonder if they will start using tech names like "man with much storage" or "woman with gigabit ethernet"? they really need to update their names to reflect modern times.

Re:USDA Rural Utilities Service (0, Troll)

nomadic (141991) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360668)

The sheer success of FDR's programs tends to throw libertarians into fits of impotent rage. That's why its fun to talk about.

Darn- nothing about the tech (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360535)

I wasnted to know if they had stolen my idea of placing Cell/802.11x antennas inside of totem poles...that would have been interesting given the number of environazis out here in Oregon who do not like to see cell towers in rural areas but might just go for a totem pole.

No such thing as a "Native American" (0, Troll)

SensitiveMale (155605) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360593)

No indigenous humans on the Americas.

Everyone that is here either walked, floated, or flew here.

Re:No such thing as a "Native American" (4, Funny)

brulman (183184) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360654)

actually several of us were born here.

Re:No such thing as a "Native American" (1)

ecloud (3022) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360694)

Well, native X'an means "born in X". So I guess I'm a Native American, 'cause I'm not an immigrant. (And my parents were not either, FWIW.) Nobody has any problem with me saying I'm a native Arizonan, or a native of the Phoenix metro area.

Regarding "indigenous", what does that mean exactly? People on most of the continents probably didn't evolve there. Well, they evolved a little, maybe, but they became Homo Sapiens much earlier, and somewhere else. Isn't it just one place in Africa or some such (or maybe the garden of Eden, wherever that is) where Homo Sapiens emerged? So everywhere else, they walked, floated or flew. Anyway I think "indigenous" probably has a narrower definition than "native", and neither word is meant to be so narrow as "having lived there since the dawn of the species" because that would rule out almost everybody in every place.

Cory Doctorow predicted this... (1)

ElAurian (133656) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360628)

...in Eastern Standard Tribe [craphound.com] .

SF future-prediction strikes again!

I wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9360653)

Is Slashdot going down hill, or does nobody care?

this is the same tribe (1)

drgroove (631550) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360666)

that poet/author Sherman Alexie [google.com] (ever see 'smoke signals', or read 'the lone ranger and tonto fistfight in heaven'?) is from... i wonder if he had anything to do w/ this, or what his thoughts on it are.

I can just imagine his next story ... "and thomas builds the fire had taken over the computer lab, and was passing out frybreads to all of the children, who before the lab was built would have been out playing basketball"

:)

Coeur d'Alene has an apostrophe (2, Informative)

CoughDropAddict (40792) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360704)

The apostrophe isn't a mistake: it's "Coeur d'Alene" (it's French).

I live there, and it's really annoying when web forms try to "correct" it:

Coeur Dalene
Coeur dAlene
No.

Coeur d'Alene (I really meant it).

second time's the charm (4, Funny)

sacrilicious (316896) | more than 10 years ago | (#9360727)

the Turbocharged Broadband Geek Project. The scheme, organized by project head Valerie Fast Horse

A previous attempt by a different group of native Americans failed to crystallize into an actual broadband offering. That group's spokesman, Eddie Slow Turtle, had no explanation.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...