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New PowerMac G5s: Up to 2.5Ghz, Liquid Cooled

Hemos posted more than 10 years ago | from the making-the-fast-faster dept.

Desktops (Apple) 1009

no_demons writes "Apple have just announced the new, completely dual-processor PowerMac G5 lineup. The models all sport an 8x SuperDrive, whilst new the dual-2.5GHz model also features an 'innovative liquid cooled heat sink,' available in July."

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How to understand an Apple zealot (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376055)

Mac Zealot Translator-o-matic

Apple have come up with some innovative products, but their market share remains tiny. Sadly, though, many buyers have been mislead by the marketing and eye-candy, and desperately try to justify their overpriced purchases to themselves on forums around the Net. Let's see what they really mean...

"MacOS X is everything Linux wants to be."
"Despite the fact that Linux is just code and can't WANT to be anything, I truly believe that it'd love to be a single-vendor, single-platform, sluggish half-proprietary OS with dwindling market share. Linux would love to throw away its impressively growing corporate takeup for that."

"Apple hardware is for real computer lovers."
"It's no hassle to use a plethora of keyboard combos to make up for the patronising one-button mouse. Despite the fact that my hands have FIVE fingers, and multiple-buttons make Web browsing so much more pleasant, I prefer my computer to be treat me like a special-needs child."

"Aqua makes me so much more productive!"
"My non-techie friends drool over the transparency and scaling effects, even though UI research has shown that they add practically nothing to getting real work done. It feels like KDE 2 on a Pentium 200, and I can't change to a light and fast WM, but those drop-shadows must make me work so quickly!"

"OSX shows that Apple is committed to open source."
"OpenDarwin.org and its community of about 27 is surely not just a token gesture by Apple. Pretty much nobody uses pure Darwin, and all the crucial components of the system are closed and require me to spend money just to get major OS updates, but they're really helping the community somehow."

"You get what you pay for with Apple hardware."
"My iBook was made by in Taiwan by AlphaTop and has design and build quality flaws (needing foam sheets jammed in to stop the common problem of the keyboard scratching the screen). Meanwhile thousands of Mac laptop owners are trying to sue Apple over poorly-made logic boards. But it's silvery and cost far more than an x86 laptop of better spec, so it must be much higher quality!"

"...blah blah MHz myth blah..."
"Although there's truth in PPC being more elegant than x86, it's crushing that the top-of-the-range 1.5 GHz chip is slaughtered by the equivalent 3 GHz Pentium 4. However, Steve Jobs showed some vague Photoshop filter benchmarks at the last MacWorld, so being a leprotard, I'm convinced."

Re:How to understand an Apple zealot (0)

carcosa30 (235579) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376215)

Hilarious.

Mods on crack again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376226)

This is obviously an old repost-troll. The top of the line chip is 2.5ghz now, and it's definitely very competitive with intels chips (as opposed to being soundly defeated).

Re:How to understand an Apple zealot (-1, Offtopic)

GammaRay Rob (452271) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376234)

Damn! I just used up my last moderator point. I could have modded this down to (-1) Troll!!!

First post ya know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376056)

Well yeah, first post indeed. :-D

You called? [nt] (-1, Offtopic)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376059)

not first post but most relivent :P

liquid cooled (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376062)

liquid equals water?

Re:liquid cooled (0)

Ghoser777 (113623) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376140)

Yeah, I think water is liquidy. Just like an apple is foodish and such. I'm not really sure what "thing" you're criticizing though. Do you not think that water is a liquid, or that it is inapproriate to use a general term (liquid) to refer to a more specific thing (water)? But no illegal casting is need - no compiler errors, ClassCastExceptions, etc - it's all good.

Matt Fahrenbacher

Re:liquid cooled (3, Insightful)

ePhil_One (634771) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376276)

liquid equals water?

More precisesly, Water is a subset of liquid.

Gasoline and alcohol are also liquids, but will have a distictly different effect on you when consumed...

Wow! (0)

13Echo (209846) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376065)

All I can say is... Wow... UNIX-nerd's dream machine.

Re:Wow! (-1, Offtopic)

Gleng (537516) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376218)

Yeah, they're very nice, but THIS [jamstec.go.jp] is the UNIX-nerd's dream machine!

design is dead (-1, Troll)

Whitecloud (649593) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376068)

it still looks like a cheese grator.

Re:design is dead (1, Funny)

jarrettwold2002 (601633) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376139)

Yes but it IS the first cheese grater that is considered salivary geek porn.

Nothing left for Modders (5, Funny)

puregen1us (648116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376070)

Already liquid cooled, and in a cool aluminium case, enough case fans for a hovercraft. What is left to do?

Re:Nothing left for Modders (4, Funny)

Geek_3.3 (768699) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376131)

Are you kidding??? No cold cathode lights? LED lit case fans?? Still in a conventional (albeit very chic) case design?? 'liquid cooling?' I spit at liquid cooling! LN2 all the way!

Lemee see a round plexiglass SPHERE case w/ enough LED's and cold cathode lights to light up a small-to-medium sized city and enough cooling power to shatter the T1000, and THEN we can talk about 'nothing left for modders' to do... ;-)

Re:Nothing left for Modders (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376153)

its actually not hard to put cathode tubes in the front, They had a MacAddict where they did it with i think blue ones.... looks very cool when seen from the outside becausee of the "cheese grater" look

Re:Nothing left for Modders (1)

aixou (756713) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376184)

enough cooling power to shatter the T1000 toucheé Geek 3.3, toucheé. Impressive job integrating an old villian into new conversation. Still though, I think the original poster was pretty much saying that you can't really get any better by modding. Sure, you can get flashier, but you will just be detracting from the grand design of the new G5.

Re:Nothing left for Modders (5, Funny)

Gleng (537516) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376252)

Could always slap a Type-R sticker on the side of it.

Add a pony (2, Funny)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376260)

I am sure there is a place for a pony in there somewhere.

Re:Nothing left for Modders (3, Funny)

iphayd (170761) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376266)

Neon lights, and cutting out the Apple and putting a window in.

Yeah, neon lights make your computer go 20% faster.

Bastards (4, Funny)

numbski (515011) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376071)

I promised my wife I wouldn't upgrade from my 800mHz 17" iMac overclocked to 900 with dual display to a G5 until they came out with a Dual 3Ghz, and I would get the 23" HD Studio display with it.

Now I have to wait another year.

Bastards. :P

Re:Bastards (2, Informative)

numbski (515011) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376096)

http://www.numbski.net/archive/journal/imac_hack/

There's the upgrade process I've been through, btw. Has a full gig of RAM. Waiting for some downtown to clock the FSB up to 133 to match the RAM.

Meh. I still want my G5! :(

Clock speed (3, Interesting)

barcodez (580516) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376072)

I thought is was widely accepted that clock speed means nothing. Would a G5 2.5 GHz be comparable to and Intel check with the same clock speed or a AMD 2400+?

The dual thing is pretty cool for a pre-build box though...

Re:Clock speed (5, Informative)

ThogScully (589935) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376138)

The clock speed is useless to compare different architectures or even different processor lines made by the same manufacturer. So, A G5 running at 2.5GHz can't be compared to an Athlon running at 2.5GHz on clock speed alone, for example.

But between two otherwise identical G5 chips, it can be assumed the 2.5GHz one will go faster than a 2GHz one. It's essentially the same chip, just running faster.
-N

Re:Clock speed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376246)

Actually, it's probably best compared to an Athlon64 FX-53, but that's just a wild guess (Ath64 being a better comparison than P4 because both are 64-bit.)

cool (3, Insightful)

aixou (756713) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376073)

That's great that new G5s are out, but am I the only one a little underwhelmed by the increase in proc speed? (Especially considering the "3Ghz in a year" when they were first announced).

Anyway, sorry to be looking at the glass half-empty. :)

Re:cool (5, Insightful)

cowscows (103644) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376193)

I'm mostly disappointed that they still haven't announced new monitors. I don't want a sleek aluminum G5 sitting next to one of those dated looking plastic cinema displays, with a three inch border around the screen. New displays!

Re:cool (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376197)

No, you're not the only one. They also put the dual 1.8 in the motherboard comparable to the previous 1.6 model, which means less available ram slots, and no PCI-X expansion.

Not Much Here (2, Interesting)

USAPatriot (730422) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376078)

One year later, the only real change is a 2.5 Ghz, and faster Superdrive. Steve promised 3.0 12 months ago, and didn't deliver. The video cards are ancient. And only 256 MB RAM on the 2000 model?

All in all, a fairly underwhelming update.

Re:Not Much Here (5, Informative)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376198)

1) IBM is having trouble getting the G5s built in big enough numbers. It doesn't help that the first XServe G5s are going to Virginia Tech. It sucks they're not up to 3GHz, but it's probably not Apple's fault.
2) Fast video cards are nice, but if I want a gaming machine I'll get a PS2.
3) Yes, only 256MB of RAM on the 1.8GHz. You need more, buy it from somewhere else. Apple overprices their RAM

The real development here is the liquid cooling. It's a big step forward, because this means that they might be able to put faster processors into the Powerbooks, and they'll be ready for 3GHz and faster processors once IBM overcomes the Voodoo Curse.

I'm a little disappointed, but since I have to save for a wedding, I'm kind of glad they're waiting to release the dual 3GHz. It will be easier to convince my future wife that we need it when we aren't dropping $5000 next week for a payment.

Re:Not Much Here (5, Funny)

foidulus (743482) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376275)

Meh, if you were a REAL GEEK you would settle for a drive-through wedding(while messing with your powerbook) and put off honeymoon activities until you got an FP on your new G5!

Re:Not Much Here (-1, Flamebait)

Binary Judas (775970) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376224)

Most Dell desktops also come with shitty video cards and 256 megs of RAM by default.

OK AMD...lets get with it.... (-1, Redundant)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376081)

Now even the G5 has leap frogged your processer speeds...

Re:OK AMD...lets get with it.... (2, Insightful)

obsid1an (665888) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376211)

And yet AMD64 series has managed to be the fastest out there. For much less too.

So much for "3 GHz by June" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376084)

Jobs originally committed that they'd be up to 3 GHz by now. Looks like IBM couldn't deliver.

innovative liquid cooled heat sink ... (-1, Redundant)

legrimpeur (594896) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376086)

COOL!!!!

Liquid Cooling is, uh, cool (4, Interesting)

neccoant (3345) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376087)

I think the 2.5 model, with the whiz-bang cooling and new chips, is the first next-gen G5, whereas the lower models are designed to clear out old supplies. November will see the real "bump" to 2.5/2.7/3.0 all-liquid series.

Here's a theory: The 2.5 is slated to start shipping in July, so maybe Apple is getting around the new-model-launch-delays bear? Will they announce and ship the "missing" 2.7 and 3.0 portions of the range in September, when they would have shipped anyway, even if they were announced today? "Clearing out the old machines and releasing the typical low-end 'shipping today' portion of the new model range, and keeping mum on the parts we would normally delay two months."

That said, they are still impressive machines, save for the GPU. Also, to the first poster, the top end chips are 2.5Ghz, not 1.5...

Hot stuff! (2, Funny)

CommanderData (782739) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376090)

Now we know what all the extra space [slashdot.org] is for in the new G5 case design, to hold the liquid nitrogren tanks!

Liquid Cooling (5, Interesting)

swordboy (472941) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376092)

I like the idea of liquid cooling but I also like simple systems. There's too much complexity here. So...

I've often pondered creating a sealed aluminum case with integrated heatsink. Stick the components in and fill it with dielectric oil in order to create a huge, passive heat sink (like a big transformer or whatever). Thoughts? I almost got around to this but stopped after submerging an old hard drive in some dielectric - if you seal the breating hole, it works fine (I believe the hole is there to relieve pressure differentials caused by changes in altitude so it should be fine in a stationary location).

Provided that the dielectric has good enough heat transfer, this should work, no?

Re:Liquid Cooling (1)

ArsonPerBuilding (319673) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376144)

too many pitfalls. What if you got a leak in the middle of the night? The idea isn't new; if it could work well enough more people would do it. Submerged computing is really really niche.

Re:Liquid Cooling (3, Informative)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376145)

It's been done...and more. One guy dumped all the components of his PC in a polystyrene tub full of liquid paraffin, which is pretty much what you're suggesting. However, he also stuck the evaporator of a fridge in there and got the paraffin down to stupidly low temperatures. The disadvantages: it looked crap and it smelt bad.

Re:Liquid Cooling And MORE... (3, Interesting)

Zzootnik (179922) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376259)

Actually, the one I saw the guy built a custom styrofoam cooler/case, put in all his goodies except the power supply, then filled it up with some odd and expensive 3m non-conductive liquid...actually I think he used mineral oil first, but that turned out pretty gooey... Then put in a pump and started pumping liquid from the bottom to the top where it dropped over a coolant radiator.

Yeah- that's a long way to go to attempt overclocking, but it was pretty neat.

IIRC, it ended up overheating anyway because the liquid got less viscous (more??--more solid) the colder it got, and created isolated thermal heat nodes around the hot components. Would've been cool to see on an infrared scope...

Re:Liquid Cooling (4, Informative)

TheGavster (774657) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376270)

Actually the breathing hole in the hard drive is critical to maintaining the cushion of air that the drive heads use to float the couple of microns over the platter surface that they need. If you plug the hole, you've got a good chance of having a hard drive crash in the most literal sense of the phrase when the heads dig into the platters on boot.

Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376095)

Apple really starts to flex its muscles, finally. I'm glad to see this as a bonafide Machead. When Intel sees that Apple's G5 chip has finally caught up to the latest P4 chips, the merry go round of hardware upgrades!

Attention to detail... (5, Insightful)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376097)

From the Apple link:

Each of the four thermal zones is equipped with its own dedicated, low-speed fans. Apple engineered the nine fans to spin at very low speeds for minimum acoustic output. Using 21 different sensors, Mac OS X constantly monitors component temperatures in each zone, dynamically adjusting individual fan speeds to the appropriate levels for the quietest possible operation. As a result, the Power Mac G5 runs two times quieter than the previous Power Mac G4 enclosure.

Nine fans and 21 sensors, generating half as many decibels. Now I'm not an Apple fan-boy but that's the level of attention to detail that seperates Apple from Dell, etc.

Re:Attention to detail... (4, Insightful)

cowscows (103644) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376141)

That's not attention to detail, that's just a different methodology. Not going the cheapest way possible. For attention to detail, notice the lack of cables all over the place inside the computer, or how the little capacitors and other components on the boards are colored to match the internal design. It may be silly in some ways, but when designers care enough to try and make the inside of a computer beautiful, I find that kind of comforting.

Re:Attention to detail... (1)

martingunnarsson (590268) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376244)

Yes, and that's one of the reasons you get that warm, fuzzy feeling from the Apple computers. I just love them.

Re:Attention to detail... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376175)

The same Apple attention produced the "wind-tunnel" power mac. This is an attempt to NOT alienate existing customers.

logarithmic scale (3, Informative)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376222)

Its only 3 dB less. Remember that funky math that we said we'd never use? 2x the noise = +3dB. You can get more difference than this by simply switching your ghetto case fan for a good one. Unless of course Apple MEANT 1/2 the dB, which is a meaningless number w/o a reference: 1/2 the dB of a 6dB source is 3dB, or half the volume. 1/2 the dB of a 50 dB source is more significant.

So before we all drop to our knees on this one, lets consider the physics.

Re:Attention to detail... (1)

IIEFreeMan (450812) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376223)

I don't want to nitpick but two times quieter does NOT mean half as many decibels. It means 3 decibels less (it is precisely e less decibels but you get the point) as decibels are a logarithmic scale.

Re:Attention to detail... (1)

krjordan (783374) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376261)

<i>sing 21 different sensors, Mac OS X constantly monitors component temperatures in each zone, dynamically adjusting individual fan speeds to the appropriate levels for the quietest possible operation.</i>

Am I the only one that would rather have a dedicated controller to handle the fans as opposed to during it in software?

Apple? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376103)

Apple and Innovative? Those two words don't ever belong in the same sentance.

IBM introduced PPC. x86 was the first to adopt PCI/AGP.

USB and Firewire technologies were just sold to the highest bidder.

I doubt apple innovated this.

Apple is dieing.

If only I had a bit of Money... (-1, Offtopic)

AbsolutCooter (685538) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376105)

If only I had the 3 grand needed for one of these liquid cooled Bad boys... I'm sure it would run circles around my 867Mhz powerbook. These machines my friends, are what dreams are made of... at least for the mac geek crowd. Wow, that whole statement was quite sad... Damn, i need a woman...

Looks like a heatpipe (0)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376107)

http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html

*The dual 2.5GHz Power Mac G5 features an innovative liquid cooling system that's more efficient than a traditional heat sink. This system provides a continuous flow of thermally conductive fluid that transfers heat from the processors as they work harder. The heated fluid then flows through a radiant grille, where air passing over cooling fins returns the fluid to its original temperature.*

seems like it's the usual heatpipe deal. you could say it's been used in stock pc's for a while now(it has, in the sff form factor computers especially as stock).

Innovative liquid cooling (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376109)

Look! We added something to a mac that PC users have been doing for years! THIS IS INNOVATIVE!

Why must people try and call everything they do innovative? It usually isn't.

Re:Innovative liquid cooling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376151)

Because it is mostly aftermarket add-ons. Only recently have some small producers started coming out with them.

Water cooling... (2, Funny)

Chief Typist (110285) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376110)

Did anyone else notice that the lower processor on this diagram [akamai.net] doesn't appear to be turned on?

Come on, Apple. I want purple and red water coming out of both processors!

-ch

Uh... (1, Informative)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376168)

That picture only shows one processor... Cold water in, hot water out, ya know....

I think it's just a demonstration of the basic principles of water cooling, not an actual in-use G5.

Re:Water cooling... (1)

tweakiegeek (691351) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376267)

could it be because the water is going from the heat-sink to the processors via the bottom tube?
then again, perhaps I am mistake, and paid far too little attention during classes

Graphics cards... (5, Insightful)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376111)

The dual 1.8 and dual 2.0 GHz machines come with an "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra" graphics card. Isn't that card pretty low-end (or midrange at best)? Is it just me, or should a 2,000+ dollar machine come with a decent graphics card?

Of course, the whole point of a tower is that you can replace the card, but when you're already paying 2,500 USD, should you have to?

Re:Graphics cards... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376187)

People that buy Macs are just as stupid as other computer buyers; they see the GHz and buy accordingly, without bothering to check the graphics card.

Re:Graphics cards... (1)

martingunnarsson (590268) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376210)

Games are (almost) the only software that use the full power of the latest graphic cards, and sadly there aren't too many games for Mac. I think a card with good 2D-performance is more important on the PowerMac, since it's unlikely to be used as a gaming computer anyway.
But with that said, I agree with you.

Re:Graphics cards... (2, Insightful)

ioErr (691174) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376236)

Gamers are not exactly Apple's core market. For most customers the current cards should be sufficient.

Re:Graphics cards... (4, Insightful)

entrox (266621) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376238)

Why do you need a 3D graphics monster for Logic? Or Photoshop? If you want to play games, you can also order the G5 with a Radeon 9800 XT built in.

Re:Graphics cards...are important (1)

acomj (20611) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376290)

Considering all the screen rendering in done in 3d (opengl) on the cards [apple.com] . 2d cards are pretty irrelevant.

What a cool machine! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376118)

But how fast does Windows XP run on it?

Re:What a cool machine! (4, Informative)

Slowtreme (701746) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376208)

Macs run Windows XP [microsoft.com] a hell of a lot faster than a PC can run Mac OS X [sourceforge.net] .

Powerbook G5 for the Developer Convention? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376119)

Go Steve! I know, you know, they know that the Powerbook G5 is comming next month :)

Is that lower CPU off? (5, Funny)

m_chan (95943) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376120)

I doubt that the art guys checked with the science guys before illustrating the CPU cooling design [apple.com] , unless that lower CPU is either A)Off or B) Magical.

Re:Is that lower CPU off? (1)

Gropo (445879) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376284)

Or C) the heat from processor #2 is coming out the other (obscured) side?

I don't understand. (2, Interesting)

IncarnadineConor (457458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376123)

I read the little blurb on the site but I don't understand what is innovative about the liquid cooling they are doing? Or is it liquid cooling that is innovative?

Majik Ovarcl0xoring Juice (1)

johnthorensen (539527) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376128)

My question is, does the new G5 implement liquid cooling because of need (i.e. fans aren't enough), or do they just want to quiet things down some.

I really hope that Apple hasn't just become the biggest SUP4R 0verclox0r of them all...

-JT

Still missing something... (1)

yoshi1013 (674815) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376132)

I think what's really going to make the G5 big is when they upgradet the main Feramantel Drive unit.

how much quieter? (2, Informative)

brentlaminack (513462) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376134)

As a result, the Power Mac G5 runs two times quieter than the previous Power Mac G4 enclosure.

If I recall my log scales correctly, "two times quieter" would equal 3db quieter. Not exactly revolutionary, but a step in the right direction.

Re:how much quieter? (1)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376269)

Of course it begs the question of how something could be "2x less" by any scale, unless you're dropping into negative territory.

1/2 as loud seems like a pretty clear way of stating it.

new Display too (4, Interesting)

patrickoehlinger (445411) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376136)

There may come new Displays (20, 23 and 30 inch with the known aluminum brushed metal look) to the WWDC, as reportet here [thinksecret.com] .
Think Secret writes they may even come with DVI port.

PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG! (2, Interesting)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376143)

and that the new machines have more than two drive bays!

I do (very) high end post production for a living and I wanted to replace my G5s with the new machines because I needed internal RAID arrays of more than 2 drives. Two drives will not give you the bandwidth you need for HD or digital cinema formats. I can't use solutions like WiebeTech's G5 Jam because my full length PCI cards take up the space.

I looked on the web site and it looks like the new machines didn't put in new drive bays in front of the CPUs (as was mentioned on some rumor sites). Am I wrong? Is there a way to add more drives?

Bandwidth in my work is more important than CPU speed.

Re:PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376183)

http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/

Re:PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG! (3, Interesting)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376273)

thanks but I need internal drives because I take my machines on set. I've already got some Kingston 8-drive bay SCSI arrays, they are large, extremely heavy and very loud.

Re:PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG! (2, Interesting)

tknn (675865) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376250)

I think they want you to buy an xServe instead. I think that is why they have crippled the number of HDs.

Re:PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG! (3, Informative)

stang7423 (601640) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376285)

Lets see...

Adding more Drives....hmmm

Well there is the firewire route, last time I checked fw800 could handle full DV...

then there is the fiber channel BTO option with an Xraid, I think 2Gb/s of drive bandwidth will do just fine too.

If you want to go oldschool you could also add one of those newfangled SCSI U320 cards which would also do a pretty good job with DV as well.

So I guess the answer to your question is a resonding yes. Since you do (very) high end work then you should be using a very high end storage system like one of the above. If you are a professional and need high bandwidth you shouldn't be relying on apples software raid anyway. But thats just my two cents.

Not very impressive. (0, Flamebait)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376164)

This isn't really that impressive. When they come out with a processor that can beat the Athlon 64 (which by the way, is cheaper), I'll be impressed. But currently, an Athlon 64 3400+ defeats a G5 by over 70% (this is not counting the new chips, this is using the best of the old G5s) in QUICKTIME ENCODING, which is sort of sad. And Apple has the advantage of RISC also--they don't have to deal with the ridiculously inefficient x86 instruction set. Considering how much of an advantage they have over AMD and Intel in creating their processors (they don't have to be forced into Microsoft's standards), I expected something better.

Re:Not very impressive. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376194)

It's Apple. Don't expect anything better.
If it were someone else, maybe.
Apple is still trying to figure out how to keep their power button from breaking under normal use.

Where's Steve? (3, Interesting)

blackmonday (607916) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376172)

I'm surprised that the 2 new offerings from Apple were simply put out on the web without any Steve Jobs fanfare. I like it when Steve shows it first, he allows into his RDF. I guess overall it's not the update I was hoping for, the video card should have been upped as well.

I think it's pretty safe to say we're gonna have an all new iMac at WWDC. It's the other upgrade everyone's been waiting for. Aluminum iMac? We'll see.

Re:Where's Steve? (4, Interesting)

chia_monkey (593501) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376292)

I like it when Jobs does his old "oh, and one more thing..." also. I think the WWDC will have something bigger than new G5s though. I'm guessing it will be bigger than a new iMac. With the release of AirPort Express and such, the low-fanfare announcement of the new G5s, but more importantly the setup of an entirely new division dedicated to the iPod, I'm guessing we'll see a new consumer product. You gotta love the rumors that fly around the Apple camp. I'm taking stabs at what the next unveiling will be also...but it sure is fun. New consumer product...hmmmm...

Major manufacturer doing liquid cooling. (1)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376173)

I'm not sure about this, but I think that this may be the first major PC manufacturer to do liquid Cooling in a consumer PC.

Has any other major PC manufacturer sold PC's with liquid cooling standard? I've seen laptop's and shuttles use heat pipes, but nothing like actual pump driven liquid cooling without having to buy an external kit.

Cooling similar to Shuttle ICE? (3, Interesting)

epexegesis (733596) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376195)

Difficult to tell from the article, but the liquid cooling system looks similar to that found in Shuttle XPCs [overclockercafe.com] The article says that OS X can vary the flow of the liquid though. Very nice though, looks like they have thought about noise, which is good.

Still no ECC RAM (1, Insightful)

HalfFlat (121672) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376212)

They tout it for scientific research applications ... but still no ECC support!

It's hard to imagine any sort of serious scientific computing that is making use of the advertised features - such as 64-bit optimised libraries, 8GB of memory, etc - which wouldn't also feel the lack of any real confidence that the results aren't contaminated by bit errors.

The newest Xserve supports ECC. Whyever do they not support it on their workstations?! It boggles the mind.

Other Older Models (1)

blackmonday (607916) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376216)

I immediately looked at the refurb section to see what's tasty. They have the dual 2.0 at the same price as the new one, so I don't think they've changed those prices yet. I also looked at still-available G4 Power Macs and they are completely overpriced. $1774 for a dual G4 1.5? When I can get a dual G5 for 200 more? Pu-Lease.

To sexy (1)

digitalgimpus (468277) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376225)

Apple's new G5 is just to sexy.

I think the Heat Sink isn't the only thing getting wet ;-)

I'm drooling.

Why PCI-X? (1)

Boone^ (151057) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376232)

PC manufacturers are |___| this close to releasing PCI Express motherboards. ATI and NVidia already have PCI-e video cards, and the standard peripherals are to follow soon. Since Apple greatly controls what 3rd party hardware can be attached to their machines, why didn't they plan for the future with PCI-e instead of causing Apple geeks everywhere to invest in PCI-X for a few months?

Apple's never had a paper launch before, so this machine could have "come out" in July, and by August-September when people start receiving their shipments PCI-e will already begin to have market penetration. Maybe it was just too much risk for Apple?

Liquid-cooling? (1)

puregen1us (648116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376233)

It seems to me that the liquid-cooling system is little more than a fancy heatpipe. These have been around a while in PC systems on heatsinks. I had a coolermaster with one, a silentpipe. The idea being that a slowfan with the two copper liquid-filled pipes could move more heat to the top of the sink and away, than a quick fan. I think it worked. Never cared that much any way. It cost about 30 only, not a lot of song-and-dance, except to be able to say, wow, liquid cooling. Could be the same here.

Of course, the PSU was the noisy thing, so I couldn't tell the difference in CPU fan noise anyway.

Just a thought.

How to understand an Apple zealot. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376243)

Mac Zealot Translator-o-matic

Apple have come up with some innovative products, but their market
share remains tiny. Sadly, though, many buyers have been mislead by the
marketing and eye-candy, and desperately try to justify their overpriced
purchases to themselves on forums around the Net. Let's see what they
really mean...


"MacOS X is everything Linux wants to be."

"Despite the fact that Linux is just code and can't WANT to be anything, I
truly believe that it'd love to be a single-vendor, single-platform, sluggish
half-proprietary OS with dwindling market share. Linux would love to throw
away its impressively growing corporate takeup for that."

"Apple hardware is for real computer lovers."

"It's no hassle to use a plethora of keyboard combos to make up for the
patronising one-button mouse. Despite the fact that my hands have FIVE fingers,
and multiple-buttons make Web browsing so much more pleasant, I prefer my
computer to be treat me like a special-needs child."

"Aqua makes me so much more productive!"

"My non-techie friends drool over the transparency and scaling effects, even
though UI research has shown that they add practically nothing to getting real
work done. It feels like KDE 2 on a Pentium 200, and I can't change to a
light and fast WM, but those drop-shadows must make me work so quickly!"

"OSX shows that Apple is committed to open source."

"OpenDarwin.org and its community of about 27 is surely not just a token
gesture by Apple. Pretty much nobody uses pure Darwin, and all the crucial
components of the system are closed and require me to spend money just to get
major OS updates, but they're really helping the community somehow."

"You get what you pay for with Apple hardware."

"My iBook was made by in Taiwan by AlphaTop and has design and build quality
flaws (needing foam sheets jammed in to stop the common problem of the
keyboard scratching the screen). Meanwhile thousands of Mac laptop owners are
trying to sue Apple over poorly-made logic boards. But it's silvery and cost
far more than an x86 laptop of better spec, so it must be much higher
quality!"

"...blah blah MHz myth blah..."

"Although there's truth in PPC being more elegant than x86, it's crushing that
the top-of-the-range 1.5 GHz chip is slaughtered by the equivalent 3 GHz
Pentium 4. However, Steve Jobs showed some vague Photoshop filter benchmarks
at the last MacWorld, so being a leprotard, I'm convinced."

Too expensive / too big (-1, Redundant)

acomj (20611) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376248)

I like macs. I use a dual g4 daily. I appreciate the software they come with adds value.. however

When a decent PC tower can be had for 1200$ and cheapies for 300$ these new machines seem mainly aimed at pros.

The machines are also physically quite large (significantly larger than the g4 towers.)

If apple wants to sell more computers (like they stated at the beginning of the year), they really should make a reasonably priced minitower. (ideally in the 1000-1500 range),

Computers are not cars. The more you have the more software gets written for them the better/more usefull the machine becomes.

Intel's still saying - (-1, Troll)

aixou (756713) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376253)

All your 3Ghz are belong to us.

One thing about Apple liquid cooling... (5, Informative)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376255)

...and multiple fans: Apple does it because they want to keep the machine as quiet as possible while still as cool as possible (as opposed to being forced to do it, lest the processor become hotter than the surface of the Sun).

(They don't do it because the PowerPC 970 family is "so hot", either; the PowerPC 970, and the 970FX even moreso, run much cooler, and require less power, than even the newest generation PowerPC 74xx (G4) family processors: )

Also, new PowerPC 970FX information from IBM is now available [ibm.com] .

Don't care about apple... (5, Insightful)

sinner0423 (687266) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376262)

...as much as I care about the liquid cooling part. I remember liquid cooling my crappy little celeron, thinking it would never go mainstream because of my belief at the time that water + electricity = bad.

Now, we've got liquid cooled technology backed by Apple. It's pretty sweet, considering you either have to buy a specially designed freon pumping case, or a $500 video card to reap the benefits of this kind of cooling.. Now all you've gotta do is buy a $3000 Mac.

Sarcasm aside, I think this shows that soon, the PC's on the shelves will mostly all be using some sort of heat pipe / water cooling technology.

I'm not a Mac fanboy, don't own one, but this really goes to show that Apple can and does set standards for personal computing. With major backing like this, it's only a matter of time before it trickles down to where everyone can be using it for a relatively cheap price. Way to go, Apple.

awww damn it! (2, Funny)

mikeburke (683778) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376264)

I just orded a Mac II like 3 days ago!!! thanks again Jobs.

One down, two to go (2, Interesting)

mr_tap (693311) | more than 10 years ago | (#9376286)

Powermac G5 updates down - iMac G5 and Powerbook G5 to go!

Liquid (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9376287)

The "liquid" is an organic substance from all the geeks who just excreated it in their pants.
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