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Slashback: Nigritude, Indignation, Artifacts

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the tomorrow-is-sushiwhore-time dept.

Slashback 181

Slashback brings you updates this evening on a handful of previous and ongoing Slashdot stories: read on below for more on how to manipulate Google rankings, what's wrong with Sun's Java Desktop, Claria's plucky response to L.L. Bean's suit, and a fly in the infinite-twin-primes theory.

How to not make friends and influence rankings. Ben Michel contributes an update to the search-engine optimization (SEO) contest mentioned last month, the object of which was for contestants to create a site ranked highest by google for a nonsense phrase, "nigritude ultramarine."

Michel writes "The first phase of the competition ended last Monday, and the winner was the owner of a forum called nigritude ultramarine--previously known as Merkey.net. According to Brandon Suit, the owner of this forum, the key to his winning strategy was "getting high PR backlinks"--having other websites with high Page Ranks link to him and vice versa.

What impact does this have on SEO, and indeed for the rapidly growing search industry in general? The viability of certain underhanded methods in the pursuit of SEO has been clearly reinforced by many of the results of the contest--both Suit and his closest competitor, Philipp Lenssen, posted links in Wiki Sandboxes in order to better their standing. According to Suit, "If you want to manipulate [Google], you can." While search engines certainly have come a long ways from relevance-based searching, it seems that they still have significant changes to make before they can more accurately order results for any given query. The search engines' creators themselves must make countless revisions in their own, perhaps quixotic, quests to create the perfect tools to retrieve relevant data in the vast, ever-expanding realm of the internet."

However, not everyone is as matter-of-fact about this method of increasing search-engine visibility; May Kasahara is one of the webmasters and wiki users who isn't.

Kasahara writes: "The Search Engine Optimization contest previously mentioned on Slashdot has had a detrimental effect on wiki users and admins (including myself) lately , as the words 'Nigritude Ultramarine' have been showing up in wiki sandboxes across the web. A search on UseModWiki's homepage brought me to this informative entry, which in turn led me to Nigritude Ultramarine and the Wiki Sandbox Effect [note -- mentioned last week on Slashdot] and to these accompanying comments, mostly from very annoyed wiki users."

OK, so maybe "infinite" was a strong word. Prof.Phreak writes "Quoting wikipedia: On May 26, 2004, Richard Arenstorf of Vanderbilt University submitted a 38-page proof that there are, in fact, infinitely many twin primes. On June 3, Michel Balazard of Bordeaux reported that Lemma 8 on page 35 is false.[1] As is typical in mathematical proofs, the defect may be correctable or a substitute method may repair or replace the defect. Arenstorf withdrew his proof on June 8, noting "A serious error has been found in the paper, specifically, Lemma 8 is incorrect"."

What are these dashed lines all over your sacred cow? reifman writes "Slashdot's link to my article in the Seattle Weekly helped generate 175,000 page views and numerous letters and comments. The article seemed to touch a nerve in the Mac and Linux communities. I've posted a follow up responding to people's letters."

Updates from the Academic Affairs Division. zenrandom writes "As Case Western has just recently been reported, we may as well mention the initiative that will be connecting many schools in Ohio. Oarnet, a part of the Ohio Supercomputer Center and The Ohio State University is building a statewide academic and research fiber optic network. Composed of multiple metro-rings and over 1600 miles of fiber."

In unrelated college news, Mirell writes "After the FBI previously investigated an open records request filed for the tunnel blueprints at UT, students decide instead to enter via brute force. Hooligans - 1, War Against Terror - 0."

The problem with opening Pandora's Box. WC writes "The previous review on JDS2 ended with no successful installation so it wasn't very helpful on what to expect from the Sun distro. This new review has got a working installation but with a slew of new problems: more installation woes, unusable networking, buggy Nautilus and Mozilla window resizing artifacts among others. The author concludes that JDS2 is --effectively-- nothing but JDS 1.1 with the added Sun server software on top, but the desktop part has the same (and more) issues like JDS1 had."

Looking innocent is not their strong suit. tbase writes "As reported on News.com.com, Claria, formerly known as Gator, has sued L.L. Bean, charging the retailer with filing a frivolous lawsuit against its advertisers. As covered in a previous Slashdot story, L.L. Bean has filed suit against current and former Claria advertisers for advertising via pop ups over L.L. Bean's site."

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Cool (-1)

RucasRiot (773111) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393550)

Very interesting.

Re:Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393673)

the contest was easily clinched by the GNAA homepage

SCO _slammed_ in Novell case. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393551)

SCO's taking it up the ass.

http://sco.tuxrocks.com/Docs/Novell/Novell-29.pd f

Groklaw: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200406101 83918915 [slashdot.org] .

Nigritude? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393555)

Is that a measure of how black you are?

"I'm a 5.7 on da' nigritude scale, yo. My ancestors fought for my right to attend white schools, but I'd rather eat fried chicken, steal cars, and talk like a 2nd grade dropout."

what about watermelon? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393602)

you can't forget the watermelon. That and KFC.

Mofuggas (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393639)

Flamebait? His comment about illiteracy among blacks is a real issue that needs discussion.

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393821)

The issue that needs more discussion is the culture that treats literacy and knowledge in general as negative qualities in a human being, yet treats drug use and firearm violence as positive qualities.

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394156)

The issue that needs more discussion is the culture that treats literacy and knowledge in general as negative qualities in a human being, yet treats drug use and firearm violence as positive qualities.


That's blacks for you.

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Flamebait)

unitron (5733) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394388)

"The issue that needs more discussion is the culture that treats literacy and knowledge in general as negative qualities in a human being, yet treats drug use and firearm violence as positive qualities."

Bill Cosby just tried that and it didn't go over too well.

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394412)

Drug use and firearm violence are treated as positive qualities? Please tell me you're joking.

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394645)

Whoops, misread your post. NM

Re:Mofuggas (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394715)

The issue that needs more discussion is the culture that treats literacy and knowledge in general as negative qualities in a human being, yet treats drug use and firearm violence as positive qualities.

Drug use is treated as a positive quality? Last I checked most recreational drugs, with the exception of alchohol and caffeine, will land the user with a significant portion of their lives being anally raped. Dosn't sound like a very strong endorsement by society to me.

Google results? (5, Funny)

Three Headed Man (765841) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393557)

Well, I know one way to get great results. All you have to do it be Litigious bastards [sco.com] and you're set.

Darl is a googler. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393625)

Darl let it be known today in the conference call that he uses google to search the net.

Apparently they irony of that, seeing how Darl's position is that ''linux is destroying the foundation of the industry!'', is completely lost on him.

Re:Google results? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393646)

More appropriate for this story: Litigious bastards [claria.com] .

Google stronger than Hulk?!? (1)

xmas2003 (739875) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393700)

Even the Nigritude Ultramarine Hulk [komar.org] entered the contest at the last minute, and despite trying to SMASH Google, he only ended up #518 ... ;-)

Hulk still thinks Slashdot shoulda thrown their hat in the ring, but they declined, saying it wouldn't be proper [slashdot.org] ...

Re:Google results? (2, Funny)

Senjutsu (614542) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393877)

Such an effort is doomed to be a miserable failure [whitehouse.gov] .

OT: Your sig (1)

gooberguy (453295) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394084)

I modded that cambell's ramen post up, not realizing it was plagarism. It was an honest mistake, as I didn't notice the replies. So in conclusion, there's nothing wrong with the moderation system, it's just that most moderators (me included) just don't read all the replies to comments that we moderate.

Re:Google results? (1)

Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394589)

How many others have a sig like mine? Of course, it doesn't help, since it's a link to Slashdot itself.

While we're at it, try Google's I'm Feeling Lucky on miserable failure [google.com] [whitehouse.gov], weapons of mass destruction [google.com] [blueyonder.co.uk], french military victories [google.com] [albinoblacksheep.com], or anti-war peace protestors [google.com] [albinoblacksheep.com].

Re:Google results? (4, Interesting)

akgoatley (787022) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394668)

Actually, if you think about it, what we want is "SCO" to point to "litigiousbastards.com" as people are more likely to search for "SCO" than "litigious bastards". Join the fight! Visit SCO's website! [litigiousbastards.com]

what (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393558)

fyad fyad lol

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

hazy_fakie (781520) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393560)

First Post for nigritude ultramarine!!!

in soviet russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393569)

backslash reports future stories!

A personal message to George W Bush (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393581)

FUCK YOU NIGGER!

You're a stupid yank, Stay out of Australian Politics [news.com.au]

Re:A personal message to George W Bush (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393719)

great. a nigget aussie poppin it's dumbass mouth off.

Re:A personal message to George W Bush (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393765)

I believe the correct term is 'Niglet'.

And I really hope buch loses this election. He's making iraq a terrorist recruiting ground. and wehat about afganastatian?

Lemma? No kidding. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393596)

Arenstorf withdrew his proof on June 8, noting "A serious error has been found in the paper, specifically, Lemma 8 is incorrect".

I guess that Lemma turned out to be a real Lemon, eh?

*symbol crash* ba-dom-bom

Thank you! I'll be here all week!

Re:Lemma? No kidding. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393650)

Thank you! I'll be here all week!

After a joke like that? Not if someone gets you with those symbols first...

Re:Lemma? No kidding. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393712)

So, was using "symbol" in place of "cymbal" part of your riotous math-humor, too?

Re:Lemma? No kidding. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393874)

So they had to eliminate Lemma 8? Lame, mate! That's one proof I wont laminate.

OW!

Re:Lemma? No kidding. (2, Insightful)

RepeatedEigenvalue (787224) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394137)

Some poor grad student isn't gonna be very much liked by his board. They usually have grad students bitch out lemmas like this - but I might be wrong. If I'm right though, some poor schlub is being handed a Master's and shown the door. Piled Higher and Deeper indeed.

Re:Lemma? No kidding. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394181)

As a Vanderbilt alum, I can safely vouch that the whole math department there is quite a lemon. I realized it wasn't just me when I was learning more math in a few lectures of physics, electrical engineering, and computer science than I did in many semesters of mathematics.

Fr1sty PSOSTAS are for widoze lusers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393601)

GNAA Launches Counter-Attack Against FBI-AOL Alliance! The_Mystic_F
June 7th, 2004
Reporting from The Motherland

In the wee hours of Monday morning tireless GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) soldiers were gathering intelligence reports on AOL. GNAA has been at war for some time with the AOL-Time Warner Corporation and recently tensions have risen to a boiling point.

"It was clear that things were about to get nasty," recalls GNAA member penisbird while he took part in a massive gay orgy, "but we never expected this, ah yeah, you give the best rim-jobs Shaquille O'Neil."

While launching some minor trolling raids into AOL territory, the surprise news hit them. The FBI had decided to join the ranks of AOL's dreaded KKK group.

"It came as a surprise, the FBI has always leaned on the side of Whitey, but this is further than we ever expected them to go," reports GNAA member rkz.

So GNAA, never a group to take things lying down, grabbed their ginormous cocks and battled back.

GNAA members Ghostface [perl.com] and Method Man [fox.com] quickly plunged balls deep into AOL's wide open servers. In the ensueing battle AOL proved to be a paper tiger and the gay niggers that they had kept as prisoners were liberated in the pre-dawn raid. All employees were forced to listen to the "You've got mail!" soundbyte until they all committed suicide.

"Wu-Tang Clan ain't nutin' to fuck wit'," proclaimed a triumphant Ghostface.

The FBI has remained on the sidelines during the intense battle that has gone on between GNAA loyalists and AOL catamites. They have yet to even confirm that the alliance exists. GNAA operatives speculate that the move was a bluff by AOL.

"It was a bluff," quoth penisbird.

We will simply have to wait and see how events unfold from here.


About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. (You can download the movie (~280mb) using BitTorrent, by clicking here [idge.net] .

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is Niggernet, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org] .


If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________. fucking
| ______________________________________._a,____ | CmdrTaco
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | will
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | he ever learn that
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA is totally
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | unstoppable? Teamed
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | up with the other troll groups,
| _________#1__________?________________________ | GNAA will absolutely own
| _________j1___________________________________ | the shitty place that is slashdot.
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Just remember, the longer the lines are,
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | the smaller CmdrTaco's penis.
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | This logo is (C) 2003, 2004 GNAA [idge.net]
` _______________________________________________'

(C) GNAA 2004


Here it comes... (0)

Call Me Black Cloud (616282) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393605)

Let the juvenile "nigritude" comments begin.

Start using the word around the office, along with "niggardly [m-w.com] " and then you will indeed be living in interesting times...

Re:Here it comes... (5, Informative)

NoData (9132) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393651)

Except that nigritude actually has to do with blackness (at least the color), whereas the more vulgar sounding "niggardly" has nothing to do with color or race. However, contrast the neologism negritude [africana.com] which is about blackness in racial terms.

Re:Here it comes... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393738)

That, my friend, is some SIRIUS BLACK.

Re:Here it comes... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393669)

Let the juvenile "nigritude" comments begin. ...beginning with your thread.

The Story of Nigritude (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393706)

Sometimes A Tower Is Just A Tower

Once upon a time there was this guy. His name was Nigritude. Nigritude was out riding around on his horse, looking for things to do. Off in the distance he saw a large tower. "That's odd," he thought. "Why is there a tower in the middle of nowhere? It's not like it's a lighthouse or something. It's way inland. I wonder what it could be for." He rode over to the tower. It might have a plaque to tell about it. Then he could find out what the tower in the middle of nowhere is for.

It turned out the tower was for imprisoning beautiful maidens. The beautiful maiden imprisoned here was named Michelle.

"Hey! Hey you!" Michelle called when she saw Nigritude "Get over her and get me out of here! Will ya?"

"Why?" asked Nigritude. He was pretty pragmatic sometimes.

"Why? Why do you think? I'm a princess and you're a prince. You rescue me. That's the way it's done."

"Oh, I'm no prince. I'm just a guy out looking for things to do. Why are you up in the tower? Did you do something bad?"

"No! Some Wicked Witch locked me up in this tower and now I'm waiting to be saved."

"You know, witches usually aren't wicked. That's just a stereotype."

"This one was wicked. She told me "I'm a Wicked Witch and I'm going to imprison you in a tower. Hahahahaha!" That's what she said. Really."

"Weird. Most witches aren't like that. Usually they are really nice. They'll bake you cookies. Most witches are nice."

"Shut up and rescue me already!"

"What's in it for me?"

"I'll show you my boobies."

"Just show them to me?"

"OK, you can touch them. They are really nice boobies."

"Just touch them? That's a lot of work just to touch boobies. There's a serving wench at the tavern I go to, she'll let me touch her boobies, as long as I'm discreet and leave her a nice tip. Rescuing you seems awfully hard just to touch boobies."

"OK, whatever you want. Just rescue me already!"

"OK, OK, calm down. I'll rescue you. Is there a door around here?"

"If there was a door, don't you think I'd have used it by now?"

"Maybe if you let down your hair, I notice you have a lot of hair, I could climb it like a rope and see if there's anything I could do up there."

"Like what? What could you do that I couldn't?"

"I don't know. Smash down you door, then we could explore the tower. Maybe there's a tunnel or something. If not there's always your boobies. No need to waste a trip."

"Shut up and go away."

"What about your boobies?"

"What about them?"

"Do I at least get a peek? C'mon show me your boobies."

"No. You did nothing for me. You don't get to see my boobies."

"Man, that sucks." said Nigritude, and he rode away.

Really, the whole "Nigritude Episode" wasn't a complete waste. It gave Michelle an idea. She could make a rope out of her hair and tie it to her bed. Toss the hair rope down and shimmy to freedom. And no one gets to see her boobies. A perfect plan. That was just what she did. She then hiked out of the forest, this whole story took place is a clearing in a magic forest, to the Greyhound Bus station. She took a bus to Nashville, where she changed her name to "Crystal Gayle" and had a fabulous singing career.

Re:Here it comes... (3, Funny)

Phybersyk0 (513618) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394473)

I'll bite. However I'll prolly get killed for this one..

"Nigri-please?!"

Re:Here it comes... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394477)

You nerds will probably be living in the hospital soon enough.

PageRank. (4, Interesting)

salvorHardin (737162) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393609)

Idea of having lots of high-ranking back-links is most certainly an effective one. I used to have a plain old personal homepage, which was ranked as '1' by google, and then I added a link to my site on my page at h2g2 [bbc.co.uk] , and watched my rank go up to 4 within a week. Sadly, it didn't last...

Re:PageRank. (2, Interesting)

iserlohn (49556) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393732)

And this property is being exploited endlessly. Google needs to find a way to recognize the contribution of a site, rather than just its content and the links. There are tons of sites out there that the sole purpose is to link to other sites and prop up their rankings.

Claria suing another company??? (4, Funny)

The Ancients (626689) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393619)

What is this - a game?

Half time - change sides....

I wonder what the half time pep talk would have been like in the Claria camp:

Now troops, we're going to need to pay for filing motions, and all that other stuff that comes along with suing someone, as well as our defence lawyers.

WADDYA MEAN WE SPENT IT ALL ON REBRANDING???....oh that's right (*fights through the fog of denial*)...we were Gator *blushes*

Annoyance (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393621)

I am a member of the merkey.net forums. While it is (probably) a good thing to have a Slashdot article, it was really annoying to have "nigritude ultramarine" posted everywhere on our forums for two months. All that for an iPod and a monitor too...

Use NOINDEX or Robots.txt for Sandbox? (5, Interesting)

PetoskeyGuy (648788) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393631)

The sandbox is a junk area where users can play right? So change the .htaccess to use Follow, NoIndex and google should be blind to them. Or the robots.txt file to block access.

Is there some reason you would want the Sandbox indexed?

Re:Use NOINDEX or Robots.txt for Sandbox? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394672)

You mean NoFollow, Index, surely?

Dear Slashdot (5, Funny)

Letter (634816) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393649)

Dear Slashdot,

It seems, unfortunately, that comment #9393632, story #110689, is wrong. Simply take v_0=1, r(v):=(1+\cos v)/\sqrt v, \rho(v)=3/\sqrt v, and \phi(v)=v. I imagine that such a mistake has heavy consequences.

Sincerely,
Letter

Mwahahah (3, Insightful)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393657)

OK, so the "Microsoftie" sacred cow follow up quotes this from a Slashdot comment in the story, theorizing that "he couldn't have put it better":
"In his lust to dominate the browser market and bring down Netscape, Bill and his cronies decided to give Internet Explorer away for free. They succeeded in undermining Netscape and getting the lion's share of the browser market, but in the process they got an entire generation of users hooked on getting stuff for free. Once users get a taste of free, getting them to pay for stuff becomes difficult or impossible. Why pay for a browser when I can get it for free? Why pay for an operating system when I can get it for free? Why pay for software when I can get it for free? Why pay for music when I can get it for free? Why pay for movies when I can get them for free? In the end, it isn't just Microsoft that's hurt by this."
Heh. This, coming from the "teh softwarez must be free-as-in-um-actually-i'm-just-cheap" crowd (which unfortunately makes up the majority of the people who use open source) is absolutely hilarious.

In any case, Microsoft has given software away for ages. Suddenly because they gave away IE, the world is on track to become evil purveyors of stolen... things.

If that isn't ironic I don't know what is.

Re:Mwahahah (1)

Grrr (16449) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393756)

I'm in no mood to defend or praise M$, but... okay.

Any quote which contains ...in the process they got an entire generation of users hooked on getting stuff for free. - as if that attitude was somehow new (cf. the difficulty in launching a successful micropayment or online-currency biz, '95 - present) must've been written by a twentysomething.
("Not that there's anything wrong with that"...)

<grrr>

Re:Mwahahah (4, Funny)

PetoskeyGuy (648788) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393766)

No, No - This is good

If I ever get an RIAA extortion letter I can just explain that I have a long standing habit of getting free stuff from the internet and that complaining at this late date is pointless because it's become the established norm. Kinda of like common law marriages or squatters rights.

Re:Mwahahah (4, Insightful)

Minna Kirai (624281) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393880)

Why pay for music when I can get it for free? Why pay for movies when I can get them for free?

The concept is basically right, but it's misapplied. The public is addicted to free music and movies because they've been getting them for free on TV and radio for decades. THAT's why P2P is not viewed as wrong by the public- "because TV is free anyhow"

Suddenly because they gave away IE, the world is on track to become evil purveyors of stolen... things.

That's not what was meant at all. The Slashdotter's theory was that consumers addicted to free software would look for... wait for it... Free Software.

Re:Mwahahah (2, Insightful)

Osty (16825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394200)

That's not what was meant at all. The Slashdotter's theory was that consumers addicted to free software would look for... wait for it... Free Software.

But Free Software doesn't have to be free software! (Thank you, RMS, for that genious naming scheme.) Remember, it's free as in speech, not free as in beer.

Re:Mwahahah (3, Insightful)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394387)

People may point out that most 'free' tv is paid for by watching ads, and that consumers are mistaken in counting that as free. But, what if the consumer is aware of that, and it still gives rise to the current situation? A typical hour long TV program has about 8 minutes of commercials. For a person who makes minimum wage, 8 minutes of time is worth about 75 cents, IF he treats all his time as worth as much as work, and that's itself debatable. If 52 minutes of entertainment has a base value of only about 75 cents, or argueably less, then what's the 'fair' price of a music download? 75 cents for a number of tracks the consumer will listen to for 52 minutes total? A two hour movie watched once? $1.68? For as person making 11 bucks an hour, that "fair" value is more like 3 dollars, by the same reasoning. There's going to be some price points where the 'fair' value of downloads looks about even with the amount a person pays for internet access or a commercial news server, even though none of that money is going to the content producer.

Re:Mwahahah (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394448)

A typical hour long TV program has about 8 minutes of commercials.

What planet are you from?

Can I move there?

-

Re:Mwahahah (1)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394653)

I didn't go into some tangental assumptions in what was already a lengthy post.
In terms of what is only a "percieved" price instead of a real market derived one, it's probably fair to not include "station identification", commercials for other programs coming up (that's perceived as a cost the station has to help it sell commercials to someone else, and argueably many viewers are thinking from the assumption that a broadcasting corporation makes no money airing its own program ads, which is almost but not quite invariably true).
It also seems fair to me not to include "Public Service" announcements, and possibly even those commercials that fall between two blocks of programming, but you might want to refigure for all that and get a ratio more like 13 minutes of ads, 47 minutes of show.
Remember too the viewer often skips some commercials as well. Very few (if any) people think of it in terms of, "I took a bathroom break and made a sandwich, lets see, I guess I have to miss the last 9 minutes of this show, or watch a few extra commercials."
Sorry, but in the interests of keeping it simple, I didn't bother to specify nearly all the conditions that might shove the actual price estimates a bit one way or the other.
I think it's interesting that we could start from a lot of obviously false assumptions that would drive the estimates way up and still not see any matches between these price estimates and actual prices, costs or values. For example, we could make an assumption that people are equally likely to change channels during ads or programs, or one that assumes most advertisers are marketing a product that most viewers of a particular program can afford (Like if we assume that 90% of the watchers of Friends can afford an SUV, since some are advertised there), and then do this analysis for that particular program, and the percieved prices still come out very wonky.

Re:Mwahahah (3, Insightful)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394714)

> one that assumes most advertisers are marketing a product that most viewers of a particular program can afford

Starting to get off topic but anyway -

I don't think that in a lot of cases they are marketing towards people that can afford the item. At least in the case of things like cars or other non trivial or mundane stuff. If someone was in the market for a new car, and could afford one - they'd buy one. They wouldn't see an ad and suddenly decide to. So what the ads are doing, is trying to put the desire for the product in you - regardless of whether or not you can afford it now. Because one day, you might be able to. And you're far more likely to buy a product after having lusted after it for years, seeing the ads wishing that you could afford one, and now finaly being able to, than if you could already afford it, and you saw the ad for the first time.

Re:Mwahahah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393939)

Hey, the Open Sores crowd has never been about consistency. Free is bad if it's not *their* kind of free. But if it IS their kind of free, then writing software for no pay somehow promotes employment.

Re:Mwahahah (1)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394172)

Heh. This, coming from the "teh softwarez must be free-as-in-um-actually-i'm-just-cheap" crowd (which unfortunately makes up the majority of the people who use open source) is absolutely hilarious.
Yep. Guilty as charged. If I wasn't so cheap, I'd not only pay SCO $699 for a runtime licence, I'd post to slashdot telling everyone what a bargain it was.

It makes me wonder: if "greed is good" how come "cheap is bad?" Is frugality only a virtue when practiced by CEOs?

Re:Mwahahah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394600)

Customers deciding what they want? That's just crazy talk! Next thing you know, car buyers will be demanding that we give them all four wheels!

Now that these Open Source commies have revealed that it doesn't actually cost $399 to manufacture an empty box with a CD in it, we're screwed! Say goodbye to 85% profit margins!

Competition SUCKS!

JDS (2, Insightful)

BigGerman (541312) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393676)

kinda interesting to watch the JDS effort.
You would think that someone like Sun has nerves,resources,etc. to pull a decent Linux desktop.
The reasons it is not are probably combination of:

internal apathy of the development group - Linux, desktop, whatever.. Any AC from Sun can comment?

cluelessness of the upper management - there is no marketing plan, they just grasping the straws

wrong marketing (different from cluelessness). Wtf it is called "Java"? To me, JDS would mean a Swing-based desktop shell on top of very thin Linux distro. Now, that would be innovation.

Overall, the JDS just confirms the point that you do not have to be a multi-billion-dollar co to produce major product and when you ARE a m-b-d co, your product may still suck. The innovation is the field owned by talented individuals and hungry startups.

Re:JDS (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393776)

Or more likely an incompetant reviewer. I have had JDS2 running on several machines for over a week now and have not experienced a single one of the problems this reviewer mentioned.

Re:JDS (2, Insightful)

BigGerman (541312) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393804)

This is Eugenia that we all know and love ;-)

Re:JDS (2, Interesting)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393809)

Here's another review [slashdot.org] if you're interested.

Re:JDS (2, Insightful)

neomac (97478) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394192)

According to Sun, they're capitalizing on the Java® brand recognition...

...which is dumb. We, the folks who know what things like "Linux," "desktop," and "Java" mean from a technical point of view, would likely be confused. I know I was before I read into it. My first reaction was, "Why the hell are they building a Linux desktop distro in Java?" (For the record, my second thought was, "How the hell are they building a Linux distro in Java!!?!")

This is a good example of what happens when Marketing wins. Sun would have been branding enough for us and IMHO, a better sell to the execs..

Re:JDS (4, Insightful)

cbowland (205263) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394284)

I have installed JDS on at least 5 machines at work, mostly low end 2 year old pc's, but also 1 v60x (dual booting suse). JDS seems pretty on target for Sun's stated market, i.e. limited functionality/requirements people. Call centers, hospitals, etc.... Basically, people who need word processing, spreadsheets, email, and and a browser. Sun is not targeting Slashdot readers for JDS users, although a some number us will probably end up administrating them. Sun is not trying to create a sexy, leading distribution, but instead is trying to replace (in their eyes) buggy, insecure, virus ridden, expensive windows machines. Of course, all slashdot readers know this, but still insist on judging the distribution on whether it meets their personal needs, including any wingnut hardware combination they may have. Of course its not a perfect distribution, but that's not Sun's pitch. They are going in to companies saying "Look, we have a product that is more secure, less expensive, and provides all the fuctionality your people need. Plus, we will support it, including phone support."

I think the "Java" in JDS is a hint that the linux base is not important to Sun. My guess is that they are trying to get to a Common Desktop Environment ;-) across all their platforms, sparc, x86, and thin client (sun ray). Using the Java name is just a marketing thing now, but it could be more meaningfull (project looking glass, anyone?) in the future.

Re:JDS (2, Interesting)

cbowland (205263) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394320)

Sort of off topic, but JDS is starting to show up in screenshots of linux machines, even when the main focus of the article isn't JDS.

See Windows Compatibility for the Linux Desktop [linuxdevcenter.com] for an example.

Friend of mine... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393717)

The owner of Merkey.net is a friend of mine. I helped him out by linking to him from my site (which has a high PR).

Nonsense Phrase? (1, Funny)

craXORjack (726120) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393742)

the object of which was for contestants to create a site ranked highest by google for a nonsense phrase, "nigritude ultramarine."
I was picturing a black supersoldier, kinda like my old drill instructor at Fort Benning. That guy was freakin scary. He was six foot five and hard as a rock in both physique and attitude and had those crazy looking eyes like Bernie Mac. Once out on bivouac he actually opened up a bit and told us about his days in Vietnam when he was a seventeen year old private.

Re:Nonsense Phrase? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394104)

You're not talking about Lawrence Fishburne, are you? Anybody?

My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (5, Insightful)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393747)

"It's a Homeland Security issue," he said. "We've been aware of the security aspects of the tunnels for a long time. We became more conscious of the security needs after 9-11."

Jesus, does everything have to be a Homeland Security issue and tied to 9-11?

Whatever happened to harmless breaking and entering? Really, what the hell is the impotent Homeland Security department going to do? Guard the tunnel entrances? Overreact and send the students to Git-mo?

Terrorism is old and busted, and is nothing but a political tool and soundbite op.

Those who respond, "tell that to the victims of 9-11", I submit that if all those people were here today they would be pretty fucking pissed at all the unconstitutional bullshit that has been done in their name.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (4, Insightful)

Grrr (16449) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393773)

...does everything have to be a Homeland Security issue and tied to 9-11?

Only so long as it works...

Remember It's for the children! ?

<grrr>

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393862)

Indeed, as a non-american and certainly someone who's not inside (except for my girlfriend living in the states), I can say most actions taken in your country by government are considered absurd and childish here in Europe. Using the people that were dying at 9/11, .... I agree totally that 99 % of these people would get angry if they see how they're used by the capitalist and political market

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (4, Funny)

orthogonal (588627) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394174)

Indeed, as a non-american and certainly someone who's not inside (except for my girlfriend living in the states)

Dear Reichsminister Ashcroft,

As you can see from the above, the terrorists -- or foreigners, hey, no real difference -- are stealing our pure American women now.

Please arrest this self-admitted anti-American woman-poacher and send him for some non-torture (because it's not illegal even if it breaks a law if the President says it's ok) "mechanical persuasion application" in Guantanamo, so that real Americans like myself can date his girlfriend.

If you do this, I promise not to do anything with her than you think is immoral, like dancing or criticizing the government, and to make her my submissive wife in accordance with God's desires as explained in the Holy Scriptures.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394198)

that's OK. americans consider things that european countries do to be absurd and childish.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393889)

Whatever happened to harmless breaking and entering?
You mean like, what it clearly states the students were charged with at the beggining of the article?

Really, what the hell is the impotent Homeland Security department going to do?
Nothing, I'd assume, since the article makes no mention of the Homeland Security department, the FBI, the Austin Joint Terrorism Task Force any other government organzation, and that quote was made by the "associate director of utilities and energy management" at the college, not a government official.

Guard the tunnel entrances?
Perhaps they're going to do the only thing that they feel they need to do to make secuirty adequate, which is seal up all the tunnel entrances.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394070)

I submit that if all those people were here today they would be pretty fucking pissed at all the unconstitutional bullshit that has been done in their name.

Why, because you are pissed now?

If those people were here today, it'd be 9/10/01. But it isn't, and the world changed when they left us. Radically.

I will concede that you have a point, but stick to facts. Make your point based on what you see now and can prove. There's plenty there.

I'm going to walk away now before my outrage hits this keyboard. You just can cast those that died that day to sell your point. That's just fucking wrong.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (1)

psykocrime (61037) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394287)

But it isn't, and the world changed when they left us. Radically.

The world did not change just because 9/11 happened. What happened was horrible, tragic, and saddening.. As a firefighter myself, I was very disturbed by losing so many of my brothers... BUT, what happened still does not justify radically altering our way of life, and saying that "the world changed."

It's not like we didn't know there were terrorist groups dedicated to attacking our country, before 9/11, ya know...

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394519)

...cast those that died that day to sell your point. That's just fucking wrong.

He's got lots of company... [google.com]

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (2, Interesting)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394417)

"Terrorism is old and busted, and is nothing but a political tool and soundbite op."

In a political sense, yes. In a practical sense, not on your life. Just like "the war on drugs" was mostly a political tool, there was a REAL underlying problem that existed (and still exists). Just because some polish up phrases and use them as soundbites doesn't mean the root cause isn't important.

There's some very real people out there that want to do some very real harm to our very real civilians. Are they as numerous as people say? No. Are people be incorrectly persecuted in this country for it? Yes. But taking away the injustices, there's STILL a core group of real people wanting to mass murder US civilians. Ignoring the issue just because it's a political soundbite is almost as dangerous as ignoring the injustices.

Re:My turn to use '9-11'! My turn! My turn! (3, Interesting)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394617)

I'm glad you brought up the 'War on Drugs' - I agree that there are problems with drugs, terrorism, piracy, poverty, illiteracy, and many other things.

Why is it that every time that a 'War' is declared, we end up fighting the symptoms of the problems and not the root causes?

We'd probably be somewhat safer from terrorists if we'd stop training them and giving them weapons...

Glad I did this before 911 (2, Interesting)

quinkin (601839) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394623)

Uni of Queensland [uq.edu.au] has a tunnel network underneath it's central buildings aswell. I am told that it was originally designed to be used by the army in emergencies, but I can't find any record of that (although I believe this is a picture [uq.edu.au] of the tunnel construction).

After a few years mapping what entrances were visible, we found a grate that had been left open, so those of us who dared went for a jaunt.

They must have had silent alarms aswell (I saw the sensors) so I knew we wouldn't have long. The group split in two and went opposite directions (the central tunnel is a large ring circumnavigating the great court). A couple of security guards came noisily blundering along the tunnel towards my girlfriend and I, but then they heard they other group and took off after them, not noticing us lurking in the shadows of an alcove.

The other group made it to a service entrance before the guards caught up, and we scurried back out the original grate. All in all a fun day at Uni.

Note for law enforcement: This is an ENTIRELY FICTIONAL account of something that NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Q.

For the Wiki Sandboxes (4, Informative)

LuYu (519260) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393789)

Why do they not just disable links to outside pages entirely? It is experimental, right? So why have links to other websites at all?

Links could create a bogus page like:

You have linked to the URL: http://somesite.wherever.net
Internal links within the wiki could be preserved.

Re:For the Wiki Sandboxes (2, Insightful)

arlandbayes (770479) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393839)

Someone learning might want to test ceating outside links. I think the noindex option is better so that sandboxes are invisible to the google bots.

Not so great an idea. Don't follow Phillip. (2, Insightful)

twitter (104583) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394028)

Why do they not just disable links to outside pages entirely? It is experimental, right? So why have links to other websites at all?

Links could create a bogus page like:

you have linked to the URL: http://somesite.wherever.net

That's not very helpful because it would be difficult to test the link that way. The idea is to encourage legitimate users to actually make and edit pages.

It is unfortunate that Wiki site administrators have to do anything at all. Phillip admits that he does not get it:

I still don't understand why something like a newsgroup alt.test could possibly be hurt from anything (spam, backlink-postings, whatever) but I guess I still don't get it.

Phill, baby, it's rude to use other people and expect them to clean up your mess. As many of the posters stated, Wiki administrators did not set up their service for your purposes and you caused them grief. I can't believe you said this after apologizing.

He also insults Wiki software itself:

In any case it seems Wiki software is not up to handle these things.

Bad attitude, Phill. You bragged about how clever you were, how about comming up with a solution instead? Someone might even give you an ipod or something.

Re:Not so great an idea. Don't follow Phillip. (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394244)

It's a sandbox. It's there so that people can experiment there instead of messing up the other sections. Did he use up inordinate amounts of bandwidth? Did he use up tons of CPU? I doubt it - they weren't even complaining about that.

If you say "Please test here", heck why complain if people actually do so?

Based on the complaints by Wiki owners it's a fact that at either Wiki software is not up to handle these things or Wiki owners aren't.

If people bring to attention flaws in code (in this case inadvertently too), they're not necessarily expected to fix it. And don't shoot the messenger.

Some ppl on Slashdot recently tried to convince me that the Wiki was spammer proof and said a research mentioned on IBM's site stated that most vandalized wikis were corrected in a short space of time.

I gave email spam as an example and said that wikis won't be safe if they were really popular, but they insisted that Wikis were up to it, blah blah blah. Naive, I let them live in their illusory world of sugar and spice, let someone else break the bad news. Now it looks like someone inadvertently woke em up.

If some guy messing about with _sandboxes_ can annoy so many wiki owners, are they really prepared? I doubt it.

If some idiot worm writer writes a mass worm that spreads or exchanges messages using wikis they're in for big trouble.

The Wiki owners/creators are the ones not getting it. Wikis should at least phase in captchas and similar defenses if thresholds are hit.

Re:Not so great an idea. Don't follow Phillip. (1)

May Kasahara (606310) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394583)

Based on the complaints by Wiki owners it's a fact that at either Wiki software is not up to handle these things or Wiki owners aren't.

It's the format of wiki that's partially to blame-- most wiki owners want to keep the things open to the public at large. This is assuming that the best way to control the content of a wiki (including the Sandbox) is to regulate its users, and require registration/passwords.

The Nigritude spam is a nuisance, one that I shouldn't have to deal with. It's not that I'm not up to it, as it doesn't take very long to revert pages to their previous versions and/or edit the source itself (I do this latter bit of business to avoid having the previous pages show up in Google-- not giving 'em the pleasure, in other words). It's that I feel that I shouldn't have to close off huge chunks of the site to users, nor should I have to make my site invisible to Googlebots, just because of a bunch of spammers.

Much wiki software is revised and modded constantly. The defenses that you hint at may figure more in the future-- but I hope it doesn't do so at the expense of keeping wikis open.

Re:For the Wiki Sandboxes (4, Insightful)

AnotherBlackHat (265897) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394180)

I think a better option is a meta tag that lets search engines know that there's user contributed content on the page.
(Or maybe something in robots.txt)

Google could still index the page, but weigh links on the page lower.

-- not a .sig

More Googlebombing (5, Interesting)

Bios_Hakr (68586) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393829)

Recently my local computer user group's blog was spammed with user registration. The same user registered about 200 times with slightly different user names and all his home pages linked to the same website. The user never needed to post a single comment in our forums, just the registration page alone gave him 200 links to his home page.

If you wanna read a more detailed account of how this works, read here [britecorp.co.uk] .

Lemma 8 (0)

king-manic (409855) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393833)

Lemma 8: If there are a unlimited number of prime pairs implies there are a unlimited number of prime pairs.

Wiki Sandboxes exist to TEST! (1)

callipygian-showsyst (631222) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393842)

I don't understand what WIKI site owners have against people putting links in sandboxes.

The sandboxes are there for users to PLAY IN and test Wiki commands. Nobody is harmed with some silly links in there. The next person in wipes them out (usually). Also most sites clean their sand daily.

--
3D Photography [callipygian.com]

Nigritude? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393850)

What did you just call me? You racist son of a bitch! I'll fucking kill you and your fucking family.

Re:Nigritude? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394632)

Don't be such a niggard, you selfish bastard. I hope my Nigerian friend doesn't renege on his promise to pay ME THE SUM OF $5,000,000 (FIVE MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS). Fo' shizzle mah nizzle. Now pass the vinegar, good man.

JDS = poorly implemented (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9393879)

JDS is a nice PREVIEW of what's to come from SUN, but simply modifying an old Suse distro, throwing in Star Office, a clunky configuration GUI and a crappy default theme (I mean c'mon purple?!) is not worth the $50 "special price" I paid for it. I'm calling Sun tomorrow and requesting a refund or one of those nifty new SANs....

JDS is cool for about 20 minutes once you have it installed...try doing anything beyond writing a paper or Googling for the Paris Hilton tape and you'll be crying for Fedora or Windoze.

Meh...if I were google i'd have... (3, Funny)

Phil John (576633) | more than 10 years ago | (#9393960)

...made all searches for nigritude ultramarine return results in a random order, shouldn't be that hard for them to do, would have been side splittingly funny as well, hah...SEO spammers...take that, and heres another one for your pointless competition ;o)

So where can we find the old Lemma 8? (2, Interesting)

sixpaw (648825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394047)

With the author having withdrawn the twin primes paper in the wake of the discovered flaw, arXiv no longer has the original up so we can see what went wrong. Does anyone have a mirror?

Re:So where can we find the old Lemma 8? (2, Informative)

fizbane (747950) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394140)

Withdrawing from arxiv.org doesn't mean the original version goes away: math/0405509v1 [arxiv.org]

Re:So where can we find the old Lemma 8? (1)

sixpaw (648825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394157)

Mea culpa, I saw the '0kb source' in the updated version and assumed that meant it was no longer available. Mod parent down for idiocy on my part, please. :-)

Links (1)

Sinful_Shirts (784047) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394306)

I know that links to your site from other sites, high ranking sites in particular, is very important. In fact, many popular sites that I visit have traffic exchange programs. Funny thing is that they often offer to send more traffic than what they receive from you. Seems odd until you realize that they are also in it for the page ranking on google.

PlayingWith Fire (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9394546)

Nigritude, ouch...

Playing with fire. Expect the wrath of the NAACP
anyday now. Remember the guy who actually got
fired for using the word niggardly?

Real Security, re: tunnels (1)

morcheeba (260908) | more than 10 years ago | (#9394693)

UTPD officials say the current security system is adequate. "I think we've got a good system in place, and I think the apprehension of six individuals shows how the system works," Stalder said.

So, they caught the perps. That's fine for simple vandalism, but if they continue to hide behind "homeland security," I would demand that they actualy provide that level of security. Specifically, the system failed in three ways:
- They don't know if all intrusions resulted in capture. I suspect not; it's the criminals that don't get caught that you need to worry about.
- There is no proof that these kids didn't do any damage. They could have planted a dozen bombs set to go off in a year, and by that time they will have served their probation and fled the country. The tunnels allow unsupervised access to anyone, just for limitied periods of time.
- In the era of disposable terrorists, the act has often been commited before their body parts can be arrested.

Sure, keeping the maps secret could make it more difficult for someone, but won't deter someone who's serious. These kids did it _for_fun_, and the lack of maps didn't deter them. I say release the maps, because this information could be valuable to people who live and work in the area. The poison you might find may have been placed there by the government and not 'terrorists'. [american.edu]
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