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ClearCase for Linux

HeUnique posted more than 15 years ago | from the another-big-one dept.

News 109

An Anonymous Coward sent me an email he got "...It is not Rational's policy to disclose future plans on this mailing alias, But, we want you to know that we do listen to your requests, and have heard loud and clear your need for ClearCase to support Linux. The ClearCase team is currently working on supporting Red Hat Linux in a future ClearCase release". Keep them coming...

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IRC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999829)

IRC == "fun"? How? When did that happen?

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999830)

what the hell is clearcase? or am too stupid to know?

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999831)

I'm thinking its a version control system.
Matt Bohnsack and I prefer CVS.

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999832)

ClearCase is a product that provides a means for code version control, configuration management, as well as developer private "views".

Sweet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999833)

I used ClearCase on Solaris at my last job. Hands down one of the best configuration control systems there is, free or proprietary.

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999834)

Yes, you might be too stupid to know.
Clearcase is a version control system that
uses a virtual filesystem. It is quite elaborate
and feature rich. Many unix software houses use it. We may discover that clearcase will be the final pebble that starts the landslide of linux support because a great deal of commercial unix software is under clearcase, thus the barriers of producing linux ports of existing unix software will be lowered.

Linux - support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999835)

Wow. That's a _really_ ugly web page. For another ugly web page, see http://www.faincoauction.com/ [faincoauction.com] .

Is this Rational Systems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999836)

Is this Rational, as in Rational "in-bed-with-microsoft-we-like-to-sleep-with-bill" Systems? I used their program (Rational Visual Test) a while ago. It's nice but they are a VERY Microsoft-centric company.
I've decided that more proprietary software for Linux is no good. We need more freed software; we don't more of the problem. This is yet another example of this...

No Subject Given (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999837)

Jump on the Bandwagon! There's pleny of room for more! Just don't think we'll remember your name 'cause there's so darn may of you.

Is this Rational Systems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999838)

Rational is pretty MS-centric, however, ClearCase was one of the products they got when they acquired Pure Atria, along with Purify, Quantify, etc. Pure Atria was a pretty Unix-centric place, and ClearCase was, and still is a Unix-centric product. Which isn't to say it doesn't suck donkey nuggets - it does. Just not due to excessive MS-isms.

MS and Linux? Lookalike, Or Power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999839)

now don't get me wrong - i love linux and would like to see MS go down in a ball of flames, but realistically if linux becomes as big as everyone wants it and IS the desktop/server/xxx OS of choice, won't it be just another Microsoft for some other up-and-coming OS to topple?

i say keep it simple, let the people who WANT to run linux run linux and leave the lemmings with their windows - as long as all of the software vendors have to port linux apps to windows. :D

-tae

Like GNOME or KDE? Whatever.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999840)

I'm sorry to break it to you, but Apple and Microsoft are the only companies that have a clue about UI usability. Yes, that is a sad statement! GNOME and KDE are no better than Windows 3.1.

MS and Linux? Lookalike, AND Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999841)

I'm personally in the process of migrating my NT box to linux, because the damn thing crashes too much. One of the only reasons I'm doing it is becuase of products like Star Office- things that do what I want, like I want, except with a stable base under them.
Once I get that down, then I might start trying to figure out the new OS a little more.

Negative Posts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999842)

Is anyone tired of negative posts when companies port products to Linux? Yes they do it to make money. Good for them.

Clear Case is a good thing. I'll tell you why!

I work for a company that has a very large Clear Case setup. Recently we added NT to our supported platforms (I know it sucks). Linux is starting to be considered but somethings are still missing. One major part was Clear Case. I feel like this will be a big push for Linux.

On a side note the Linux port runs 34% faster than the NT version on the same machine. :>

we want rational rose not clearcase!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999843)

i would kill for some good design tools on linux!

Is this Rational Systems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999844)

Because if you are an MIS department and you have to support 2000 users and the software product looks and works exactly the same on Windows or Linux, it is MUCH easier to support. The ID-10T users will not have to care which platform they are running on, everything will look, feel, and work exactly the same for them.

Ever try to support a house with 20 different user mail clients, 15 different word processors, 4 operating systems, and a partridge in a pear tree?

It is a royal pain in the hips.

Ok, we get the idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999845)

seeing as half of the posts are yours, and they all say the same thing, poorly, it's time to back off.

we want rational rose not clearcase!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999846)

Aagh. I hate that program. We tried several versions of the Java tool. It was so promising but it never quite worked right.
I really hope they have improved it.

MS and Linux? Lookalike, Or Power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999847)

Hey! You forgot to say you have FREE webhosting, just $50 signup, at http://www.vhosts.net/ [vhosts.net] !

'Big Tent' OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999848)

Isn't Linux big enough for all of these possibilities? I mean what's actually the point in limiting what kinds of 'looks' are available or whether 'Microsoft-centric' programs are ported to Linux. I say, the more the better! After all, you still have the choice to buy/not buy, install/not install whatever you want.
The only thing better than being able to 'unleash' the full potential of the computer (which Windows doesn't) is not HAVING to unleash it if you don't want to. It seems like some people believe the mere presence of Windoze-like software leeches the intelligence out of Linux as a whole like some kind of virus?!?!
Don't worry, be happy...
Have fun

Chris Kuhi
christopher.kuhi@stud.uni-muenchen.de
(err, I seem to have misplaced my password...)

Easier for Linux users than Microsoft users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999849)

I'm developing an app and have chosen to use the typical windows key-bindings. I figure it's a lot easier for Linux users to change to Ctrl-c for the copy function than the typical windows user to change to Alt-c.

Let's not be too religous here, folks!

Michael Doherty
http://top.monad.net/~vsi/

I want Rational DOS/16M! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999850)

When do we get that ported to linux?

ClearCase is too heavyweight! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999851)

ClearCase is basically the big all-encompassing approach to source-code control. It is not a very good product, IMO.

If you want something fast & small, take a look at Perforce [perforce.com] . They have a very interesting comparison between their product and ClearCase here [perforce.com] . And they've been supporting Linux, FreeBSD, & BeOS (amongst others) from the start.

I am not an employee of Perforce, but I work for one of their bigger customers. Switching to perforce was one of the best things we ever did.

What I'd really like to see from Rational is a port of Purify! That's the most useful piece of software they produce.

What about CMVC ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999852)

Does anybody use CMVC - that's IBM's source/defect/etc management system.


There's an internal Linux client for this.

TogetherJ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999853)

Worked for a year with Rose, then switched to TogetherJ. Although, written in java, kics Rose's ass from here to San Jose.

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999854)

I used to administer ClearCase on the 64-bit Sun UltraSPARC and HP 9000 Servers (Also CMVC on the RS6000s). These are probably two of the most widely-used (commercial) version control software packages in the industry. If a Linux port is forthcoming, GAME OVER... There will be no more excuses for IT departments not to try (use) Linux.

Clearcase? UGH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999855)

Gimme a break. Clearcase shows versions of source code as file systems. In order to see MVFS file systems, your kernel needs to support it. Simple, eh?

I guess NFS is stupid because it requires kernel support too? How about procfs?

--jrp

rootin holes in clear case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999856)

Install this on your box and any user can get root. L0pht posted advisories on this and our response from them was "who cares".

You have been warned.

weld@l0pht.com

No, no, no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999857)

Proprietary software on Linux is a BAD thing. We should not encourage this. By encouraging proprietary software to be developed for Linux and the GNU system, you are undermining the goals of the operating system you are running. If people start to run more and more proprietary programs on Linux, the whole underlying principle of freedom will be lost. We need to keep fighting for freedom, and that means we should not be supporting proprietary software.

Wooooohoooooohh :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999858)

YES ! they're finally doing this :) I use clearcase all the time at work and because they dont support linux yet, I have to export my clearcase views from a slowlarich machine and its SLOW. This one will really be a major help for me :) Not that I had not used and abused their bug system to ask for a linux port anyway :)

RE: MS and Linux? Lookalike, Or Power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999859)

Do you sell free webhosting? Why don't you tell us about it? Come on, don't keep it a secret!

What is FiP?

Is this Rational Systems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999860)

Doesn't Staroffice use a win32 port by Cygnus or some other company to run on an X system? Doesn't it actually run a little version of windows inside itself and take 30 megs of memory to do it, or something?

Like GNOME or KDE? Whatever.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999861)

I dunno -- but fvwm from '94 works fine for me if you stick a background on it.

Easier for Linux users than Microsoft users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999862)

You should seriously consider making the keybindings customizable. Think of the Macintosh users!

3 commercial, 1 free... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999863)


Yup.

And in the end, debian wins. Because it is free. Really free. Pure. It will keep all of commercial unix vendors honest. I said unix. Not just linux, all commercial unix vendors.

Really, without a purely free distribution, its gonna be deju vu all over again. As in same old song and dance.

What about CMVC ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999864)

Oh God please no.

CMVC has some okay features (I've never used ClearCase so I can't compare, but I'd still bet ClearCase is better). But I remember the interface of CMVC to be a joke. Dog slow too.

Give me ClearCase, give me CVS, but don't subject me to CMVC again...

Good coincidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999865)

Just today we had a discussion over lunch what it would take to move one of our established products to linux. One of the major problems from a development standpoint was the lack of CC and Purify (all our existing code is in CC). So this would clear one obstacle to move to linux.
Could be cool, really cool, to have CC (and Purify).

You mean like a brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999866)

No, we mean like "tools professionals use in their work".

WTF does that have to do with M$?

'Big Tent' OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999867)

Hahaha, you said vb.

Starting to feel a bit uncomfortable ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999868)

With all the newly discovered hoopla surrounding Linux, are you really suprised that people are going to exploit it to make $? ClearCase in particular is a *very* expensive tool. Don't expect to see source anytime soon.

If the bar must remain at "free" in order to be "acceptable", the rush of companies announcing Linux support will quickly dwindle down to nothing. You can dislike the business model associated with IP, but it ain't going away anytime soon.




You know when you need it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999869)

If CC feels "heavy" for your organization, then it probably is. There are lot's of solutions which work just as well (or better) for smaller organizations.

This is a "very big league" tool, which really shines when there are hundreds of architects, developers, testers, etc. spread out around the world all trying to work from a controlled base of code.

It's especially valuable for people that have to maintain lots of separate branches for different versions/iterations/customizations of the same underlying system.

If Rational deploys reasonable support for Linux at a reasonable cost, this will be a *big* win in the larger development organizations. This is right where Linux needs a win right now(IMHO).



Clearcase? UGH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999870)

ClearCase sells for a reason. It rocks! Seriously, the cool thing about ClearCase is that the filesystem is the database. It's like "the network is the computer" but better.

Sweet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999871)

1) Why would any commercial company write tools to help lose business (I.e, extract to CVS)? It's like why Redhat hasn't implemented an RPM tool that keeps users upgraded like Debian or, gasp, Win98. Redhat wants you to buy their disks, not download every new upgrade for free, even though they have to let you, by license.

2) The virtual filesystem is slow on a slow machine or network. On a fast machine (read low-end Ultra Solaris box) or well configured network it's peachy. At least it has been everywhere I've used it.

3) The virtual filesystem is powerful. Sure, it may be confusing, but if you take advantage of it, it becomes natural pretty quickly. If you're not taking advantage of it, you don't need ClearCase anyway. Believe me, lots of people use it because CVS and other tools DON'T provide the bang thay they need.

ClearCase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999872)

Slashdot posted another story which sums up the reasons why they likely only support one distribution, I think. To say you support "Linux" means you support some combination of libraries, shells, utilities that are common to all Linux systems. Since there is no such combination, commercial developers have limited options. Read the article to see what the issues are:

http://www.calderasystems.com/news/features/9902 26.LSB.html

I want my Purify (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999873)

I want my Purify!!! Purify is the thing I miss most about commercial Unices when I program on Linux. I'd even pay for it. Really! Not what they charge for it on Solaris or HP, but actual cash money.

Do you hear me Rational? Purify for Linux NOW!!!

Sorry, I'll calm down now.

TogetherJ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999874)

Sorry to post another me too but Rational Rose sucks compared to Together.

Well guess am I in pain.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999875)

I'm working as an usability engineer and every app I evaluate pains me as I must give advice that leads to Microsoft-copying: People know how to use Wröd and they don't want to learn nothing new.. so I give them Wröd, but it kills me. Well Someday I'll use all the great ideas I have inside me.. Muhahahaaa!! -- Anonymous Usability Engineer

promises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999876)

if they were going to port it, why haven't they? the reason is that they wouldn't be able to make money on it, would they be able to now? ask yourself, you willing to buy it?

I want my Purify (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999877)

Yeah, I agree... It must be the best bug-finder
I've seen... Too bad I can't afford it :(

Wake up: Clearcase is the best RCS ever conceived (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999878)

a virtual file system that dynamically serves
up directory and file revisions based on
user-defined rule sets - brilliant!
nevermind the automatic dependency creation of
clearmake - another feather in its cap.

nothing even comes close

please don't spread your Not Invented Here nonsense.

+ or -? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1999879)

I use Slackware myself, by choice. Does that answer your question?

ClearCase (1)

Patrik Nordebo (170) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999887)

Perhaps because CVS is free and ClearCase is not.

Like GNOME or KDE? Whatever.. (1)

Patrik Nordebo (170) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999888)

How come you people always just say "Windows/MacOS is better" but never explain what is lacking in Gnome/KDE/whatever?

ClearCase & branding (1)

TopSpin (753) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999889)

Feeling a little overhyped?

  • FreeBSD = Welcome Home

F*ck all that... (1)

jabbo (860) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999890)

CC is kind of bogus. What would be nice is Purify, as someone mentioned. Especially for, say, MySQL ;-) heheh...

Anyways, if there are UML goombahs out there that haven't heard of Dia, LOOK AT IT. It's VERY raw right now but one of my favorite special-purpose tools. I started working on getting it to make diagrams from SQL scripts (just simple create table foo (YourMom varchar(255), Foo int); type stuff) and got distracted, but it doesn't look like it will be harder than necessary. The output format is XML and there's an active user community. Here is the homepage:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/dia.html

I think version 0.40 will be coming out soon.

Okay, let's try that again: (1)

jabbo (860) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999891)

Dia Homepage [lysator.liu.se]

+ or -? (1)

Nick Mitchell (1011) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999892)

Is this supposed to be a disparaging remark or is this, somehow, the rallying call of Slackware users?

bleh (1)

kfort (1132) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999893)

just what we need, another proprietary software company exploiting linux. Don't act like they are doing anyone besides themselves a favor.

sarcasm? (1)

kfort (1132) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999894)

This company isn't interested in helping linux grow. linux will grow with or without them. They are porting their software to linux so their company can grow. They want to make money, and linux has come to a point where they feel they can make money off of it. It is still proprietary software, with no freedom. They aren't "supporting" linux, they want linux to support them.

Superior to any other... (1)

ChadG (1680) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999895)

You can look at one little thing of the many that makes ClearCase so superior to any other system of its kind, and it all becomes clear:

> clearmake
mkdir -p objs

Wink in derived object "objs/path_util.o"
Wink in derived object "objs/string_util.o"
  • .
    .
    .


"In true sound..." -Agents of Good Root

Why are they porting to "Red Hat" Linux?? (1)

sheldon (2322) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999897)

It's called Configuration Management.

You don't port an application to Linux, because Linux is just a kernel. You need to port them to a specific version of the OS, or rather distribution.

Otherwise how are you going to know if the application is going to work when you developed it on RedHat and someone installs it on Slackware 1.0?


I want my Purify (1)

caolan (2716) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999898)

I agree, Purify is the only reason i even go near solaris, as its available there. It's one of the few things i think id throw some money at if it was available. I have to say i really like it.

C.

ClearCase & branding (1)

goon (2774) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999899)

I reckon you'll find this happens more and more. Think about it,
developers are going to target the company that gives them the
greatest exposure, marketing clout and market.


Who's to bet that RH is going to win hands down in the developer market.
An article in the local rag (www.it.fairfax.com.au - article not online)
explained how Caldera (www.calderasystems.com) is aiming to the busines
market, RH has like 72% of the 18-24YO developer market (how they make
these claims I do not know?)
So watch for the software companies
targeting the various L*nux brands along the following lines
  • Red Hat = developer tools,games?
  • SUSE = euro, might miss out, home users, first time market
  • Debian = choice of hackers/purists, no market there
  • Caldera = biz users, hence applications

what I would like to know is which of these distributors is going to best
support game s/w,RH?

I want my Purify (1)

Digital Commando (2881) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999900)

You could always help fix GNU Checker [gnu.org] , which provides similar functionality in gcc. Unfortunately, Rational has a bunch of obnoxious software patents on Purify that they will defend.

Is this Rational Systems? (1)

Prothonotar (3324) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999901)

I've worked with ClearCase before (as recently as a week, actually). I've never heard of a Windows-based vob server (vobs are where the versions are stored, like a the CVSROOT in CVS). I'm sure they exist, but no one in their right mind would use them. ClearCase is available for Windows (9X/NT), Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, AIX and probably other unices. The best part about it is the MVFS (the filesystem); although it is probably not suited well for remote development, where a local copy of the source tree is preferable to a shared filesystem. They do have a version called Attache which I think does use a local copy, like CVS; but if your development is going to use this extensively, you might as well use CVS or Perforce or something, which is considerably cheaper.

The best thing about ClearCase on Linux is it is one less obstacle for maverick employees to install Linux on their workstations at work ;-)

Now if they would only port Rose 98....
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.

when you actually... (1)

Prothonotar (3324) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999902)

What version? How's it compare to the Windows version (in terms of features and compatibility)? I worked at a co-op where both ClearCase and Rose are the main obstacles to 100% Linux development. If Rose for Solaris worked good, then it could run on the Linux display. A native Linux version would still be good, because then the astronomical server resource consumption can be distributed to the workstations.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.

ClearCase is too heavyweight! (1)

Prothonotar (3324) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999903)

I too worked at a place where they switched from ClearCase to Perforce. Actually I like the MVFS concept, although I do admit Atria's (now Rational's) implementation in ClearCase is very slow and bandwidth intensive. ClearCase is much more robust than Perforce, but if you don't need that robustness, then there's no point in paying for it. Perforce also has a Linux client (which can be downloaded for free, separate from the server), so that's a plus.

Despite the Linux and Unices clients, though, Perforce (last I used it, which was last summer) did not seem very interested in those of us developing *on* Unix workstations. There was no graphical tools, which are almost necessary for complex branching (which of course, they tell you not to do, but branching is necessary in a large project) and other complex operations. The company I worked for had to write a Tcl/Tk interface for it. Of course there was a win32 interface already.

I didn't use Perforce much (I left the company during the transition), but I don't see it as much but a upgrade of the functionality of CVS. I doubt there is much Perforce can do that a relatively simple frontend for CVS could do. And CVS is free software.

That being said, if there was a VFS interface for CVS, then most of what ClearCase is good for would be co-opted as well.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.

Easier for Linux users than Microsoft users (1)

spitzak (4019) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999905)

I agree with the earlier comment that Ctrl+C alienates Macintosh users.

But hey, why not have BOTH Alt+C and Ctrl+C do a copy? This is the sort of solution ideas we need.

(really in my code I use Ctrl+C for copy, for the same reason that MicroSoft does: I don't want to interfere with the use of Alt+C to copy other data (like graphics) and was too lazy to write the program to analyze what you selected last.)

All i wanted was... (1)

spitzak (4019) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999906)

I think the "taskbar" equivalent is more the Apple pulldown menu off the icon in the upper right that shows which app is current, not the finder.

I am quite glad Windoze has those individual menu bars, as otherwise we would be stuck with click-to-type because of people copying the one-menubar interface... Right now Point-To-Type support is probably Linux's #1 User Interface advantage over other systems. (the fact that you can click on a window without raising it under both click and point to type under most window managers is perhaps #2)

I do hate both of KDE and GNOME for not figuring out a way to provide users with the controls without wasting the screen space with a "taskbar". I personally would like to see both the "taskbar" and "start button" combined into a single pop-up menu that takes ZERO space when not being used.

Clearcase? UGH! (1)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999907)

any source code control/configuration management system that requires KERNEL MODS to run is right out in my book
And, as has been discussed to death in another article here, if they require kernel mods (rather than just an installable module), they will have to supply the entire source code of the kernel components of their system in order to meet the requirements of the GPL.

Clearcase? UGH! (1)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999908)

Oh, please, let's not start this up again!

A kernel module has to be linked to the kernel in order to work. The process of linking is the creation of a derived work.

Linus has explicitly granted permission (beyond the scope of the GPL) for distribution of binary modules that install into the kernel, provided that they don't require any other kernel modifications.

If you want to distribute a binary-only kernel module for Linux, and you need to modify the standard kernel code to make it work, you're SOL.

We don't want proprietary crap in the kernel, and allowing binary-only modules at all is a big concession; allowing that to be combined with arbitrary hacks would allow anyone to make arbitrary amounts of the kernel proprietary.

Rational Rose (1)

Bilbo (7015) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999909)

Now all we need is for Rational to port over their "Rose" UML tools, and I could FINALLY dump that stupid NT box I've got chained around my neck at work!

Amen! Long Live CVS! (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999910)

The place I had been at for about 4 years had several different software departments (yes, we talked to each other :-) Our dept used CVS, another one used RCS. The RCS one's management decided they had to get a real ($$$) system; they bought clearcase for who knows how much money. It required its own SunOS server, it crashed several times and took them a day to recover. I refused to use it. CVS is great.

Long Live CVS!

--

You mean like a brain? (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999911)

Unix lets you use the design tool you were born with. M$ forces you to use ONLY m$-brand of canned pre-digested mis-design tool.

--

Why are they porting to "Red Hat" Linux?? (1)

SimonK (7722) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999912)

Because they have to know what system configurations they are supporting. That is why LSB is important. Its very naive of those who do not want a single company to dominate to oppose it.

Thank you rational (1)

SimonK (7722) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999913)

I'm not a massive clearcase fan, but at least this might let us stop using the evil NT port. It really sucks.

Clearcase? UGH! (1)

Rob_D_Clark (8341) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999914)

Well, those kernel mods let you use non-clearcase aware tools to do development. If you have ever used clearcase, you would appreciate it despite the required kernel mods.

The kernel mods needed should be pretty minimal, because as I understand it most of the work is done by a daemon. With linux's VFS layer in the kernel, it should not be too hard to implement the kernel support. In fact I even volunteer to help, if they are looking for help! (It would be a fun project, I think...)

I have to say that ClearCase is the coolest thing since sliced bread! With clearcase for linux I would be able to use my linux box for more than just an x-terminal!

bleh (NOT) (1)

Rob_D_Clark (8341) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999915)

No, actually they would be doing me a favor... and I am sure I am not the only one who uses a perfectly good linux box as an X-server half the time because we need solaris to use clearcase.

Like GNOME or KDE? Whatever.. (1)

Plasmoid (8367) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999916)

I'm sorry but KDE 1.1 is *way* better than *anything* M$ has shown me to date.
3.1- not bad, not good, but more on the bad side
95/98- Better, actually not than bad, but unstable
KDE 1.0- pretty damn good, about par with 95/98
KDE 1.1- much better, lower mem usage, much prettier...

More useless M$ words.... (1)

NikoDemous (8992) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999917)

As a person who has actively studied UI design at a graduate level, I doubt you've seen REAL UI.
One of the projects we're working on currently is a ergo-design station area with extremely enhanced UI's including 3d fully rendered FS plots, app. manipulation with retinal/nuero resistive reponse etc.

Let's look at words like "discoverable", "UI enhanced experience", "inititiveness", and a thousand other made-up M$ words lack have no substance but have thousands of sheaple that follow it.

First of all, M$'s interface is nothing new. They stole much from the X-Windows of Unix, not to mention much of the NT code is most likely a clone of some OS2 stuff... badly mangled at that.

GNOME & KDE represents power and configurability that doesn't talk down to the end user.
Are they the end-all of UI? Of course not but we have to have some familiar ground to get the sheeple using windows to Linux and allow them to feel comfortable in an environment with familiar objects. GNOME & KDE are also much more stable and functional than the MS-Windows UI and considering the fact that these UI's have been around for 2 years or less and have this much functionality says much for the OSS development process and less for Microsoft.

You may wish to refer to the GTE study of 1998.
A call-center of 733 people all of whom were using MS-Windows based workstations were chosen.
In this center down time cost approximately $480,000 USD$ per half 20 minutes. (when you call GTE you are calling this center) when these people were switched to Linux based workstations, with only 1 day of training, their productivity went up by 36%. This is a gain of over 3 Million dollars per week.

Don't tell me about UI usability. Prove it!


Nick
Linux Systems Group



Linux UI's have much more power/potential (1)

NikoDemous (8992) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999918)

As a person who has actively studied UI design at a graduate level, I doubt you've seen REAL UI.
One of the projects we're working on currently is a ergo-design station area with extremely enhanced UI's including 3d fully rendered FS plots, app. manipulation with retinal/nuero resistive reponse etc.

Let's look at words like "discoverable", "UI enhanced experience", "inititiveness", and a thousand other made-up M$ words lack have no substance but have thousands of sheaple that follow it.

First of all, M$'s interface is nothing new. They stole much from the X-Windows of Unix, not to mention much of the NT code is most likely a clone of some OS2 stuff... badly mangled at that.

GNOME & KDE represents power and configurability that doesn't talk down to the end user.
Are they the end-all of UI? Of course not but we have to have some familiar ground to get the folks
using windows to Linux and allow them to feel comfortable in an environment with familiar objects.

GNOME & KDE are also much more stable and functional than the MS-Windows UI and considering the fact that these UI's have been around for 2 years or less and have this much functionality says much for the OSS development process and less for Microsoft.

You may wish to refer to the GTE study of 1998.
A call-center of 733 people all of whom were using MS-Windows based workstations were chosen.
In this center down time cost approximately $480,000 USD$ per half 20 minutes. (when you call GTE you are calling this center) when these people were switched to Linux based workstations, with only 1 day of training, their productivity went up by 36%. This is a gain of over 3 Million dollars per week.

Don't tell me about UI usability. Prove it!


Nick
Linux Systems Group

Linux UI's have much more power/potential (1)

NikoDemous (8992) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999919)

For those who say that Microsoft has the lock on UI design, I say this. As a person who has actively studied UI design at a graduate level, I doubt you've seen REAL UI.
One of the projects we're working on currently is a ergo-design station area with extremely enhanced UI's including 3d fully rendered FS plots, app. manipulation with retinal/nuero resistive reponse etc.

Let's look at words like "discoverable", "UI enhanced experience", "inititiveness", and a thousand other made-up M$ words lack have no substance but have thousands of sheaple that follow it.

First of all, M$'s interface is nothing new. They stole much from the X-Windows of Unix, not to mention much of the NT code is most likely a clone of some OS2 stuff... badly mangled at that.

GNOME & KDE represents power and configurability that doesn't talk down to the end user.
Are they the end-all of UI? Of course not but we have to have some familiar ground to get the folks
using windows to Linux and allow them to feel comfortable in an environment with familiar objects.

GNOME & KDE are also much more stable and functional than the MS-Windows UI and considering the fact that these UI's have been around for 2 years or less and have this much functionality says much for the OSS development process and less for Microsoft.

You may wish to refer to the GTE study of 1998.
A call-center of 733 people all of whom were using MS-Windows based workstations were chosen.
In this center down time cost approximately $480,000 USD$ per half 20 minutes. (when you call GTE you are calling this center) when these people were switched to Linux based workstations, with only 1 day of training, their productivity went up by 36%. This is a gain of over 3 Million dollars per week.

I believe that the next two years will have KDE and GNOME working on their wonderful desktops, coming out with much increased functions/features and others coming out with radical new UI's like those mentioned above. Linux lends itself naturally to these improvements by it's file system layount and it's OSS design paradigm.



Nick
Linux Systems Group

TogetherJ...Where to find this tool? (1)

NikoDemous (8992) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999920)

What are the advantages of TogetherJ over Rational Rose? What things is it best suited for?
Where can I find it? Does it run on Linux?

Thanks,

Nick
Linux Systems Group

Clearcase? UGH! (1)

xyzzy (10685) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999921)

I'm sorry, but any source code control/configuration management system that requires KERNEL MODS to run is right out in my book. That kind of stuff DOES NOT belong in the filesystem/kernel. CVS all the way!

Clearcase? UGH! (1)

xyzzy (10685) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999922)

The two ain't hardly equivalent. The job of the file system is to provide you with files, pure and simple. If you're going to start down that road, why not put all the baggage into the filesystem that Windows has? You could certainly make an argument for it. Why not put a C compiler in there as well? The philosophy of Unix has always been "keep it simple".

I would also add that while it might not be a problem vis a vis Linux, supporting Clearcase with commercial *nix systems (Solaris and Irix) is a royal pain in the patoot. You are STUCK at whatever rev of the OS that Clearcase currently supports, and until they release a new version, you CAN NOT MOVE FORWARD. And heaven forbid you let your support contract lapse. I think you get the picture.

Clearcase? UGH! NOT! (1)

dreamt (14798) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999923)

I would have to agree here. ClearCase is an amazing piece of source code control software. We use it where I work, and I am always amazed at what it does. To be able to view files in source code control, then CD into that file, and view all of its revisions as a different file, and be able to use any u*ix command on the files is amazingly useful.

We are already looking into a linux port at my company (those of us in development who hate the NT port (native Solaris)) and this will only simplify things greatly (we had been thinking of NFS exporting the source code, which clearcase also supports)

Is this Rational Systems? (1)

dreamt (14798) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999924)

I don't know about the rest of the company, but the part that makes ClearCase knows very little about NT. We use the Solaris version of ClearCase, so they wanted to use ClearCase under NT as well. We had to have several visits from people from ClearCase out on site to work on the NT install, and it still doesn't work nicly. The ClearCase portion is very definatly a unix house...

Why are they porting to "Red Hat" Linux?? (1)

fnorky (16067) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999925)

I've noticed a disturbing trend of commercial software being ported to specific distributions of Linux. I run both Red Hat and Debian, and will be setting up a Slackware before much longer. I would prefer that any port of Rational's software be for "Linux", not a specific distribution.

ClearCase (1)

fishCannon (17545) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999926)

I know it sounds like Pointy-Hair-Boss speak, but if you are going to dedicate yourself to producinr reproducable results you need more than just a tool. If you work on a large project you need a plan that involves periodic merging of branches and advance of a common baseline. Otherwise you end up in just the situiation you describe.

Freed software (1)

frobozz (19428) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999927)

I don't care what kind of software is coming to linux. Freed or not, the more the better. Some vertical market stuff isn't going to attract enough interest amoung the linux open source developers. Myself, I am REALLY looking forward to Codewarrior/linux. I use it already on my Macs and PCs, and love it. It's a natural for use with linux. Even though it's not free.

Yes, (lack of) CC support is a Linux showstopper (1)

turtle (91015) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999928)

There isn't a major software development project
within a large company that doesn't use CC.
If the company is serious about their sw development, then they eventually find their way
to CC. It does so much more than CVS or RCS is even capable, and is much better at what it does
than anything else out there.
There's no problem with them porting to Linux, and
there's no problem with them making money from it.
This is a product that companies are already spending 100s of 1000s of dollars on, in addition to the money they spend for the HW/OS platform to begin with. Let them port to Linux, and let me save $5k per hw platform so I can put a real OS on
people's desk! That will only help us show others
the real power of freed sw!

that reminds me... (1)

Detroit (165885) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999929)

I want a clear case to mount my mb and cards in. Does anyone make them?

jeff

Linux - support (0)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999930)

That really cool, It's about time more and more people started supporting linux! (RedHat) we run them for our servers, We do web hosting for $50.00 one time fee, no monthly cost, this link [anvdesign.net] is to anvdesign.net, or vhosts.net there both on linux redhat servers. But hehe don't ./ us. We just want people to know :) We just want people to know we support linux fully, And if you need help with linux our support team support@anvdesign.net can help most of the time with most problems!

Linux - support (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999931)

Nope not really, Our ad runs on slashdot at the top.

MS and Linux? Lookalike, Or Power? (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999932)

I want to know why people are trying to make programs look like WinXX software?? I mean look at star office,
Almost a lookalike. Where's the Kickbutt looking software that shows the TRUE power of Linux. I say quit with
the MS lookalike and lets make software for a new age, with more new looks! As you might of guessed Linux is
going to go big!

hehe (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999933)

Sheesh all i'm trying to do is tell people about something that would want to know about. We have had alot of "Real World" problems, Sheesh we was apart of the Linksys tulip fix for linux, for the 10/100 Mb problem, We could of just went with a os that had support, But why? Why not fix the problem .. I mean if there gonna let us use a os thats free of cost, You can get linux for $50.00 at a store for the box, books, cds. I'm just giving back to the world as linux as gave to me. No BS haha.. But before the os can go big the support has to be there, You can work on a car without tools 1st. You can have a os with our being able to help the people with the os 1st. So we give free help to people thu email. And phone calls most of the time. support@anvdesign.net
:)

MS and Linux? Lookalike, Or Power? (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999934)

Hey i happen to love star office, But not because of it's looks, But because it's very stable. I have dem crashing appz.

All i wanted was... (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999935)

Sheesh all i was really saying was that I want apps that have a new look, Something new, not a copy of something I could have on NT or win9x, Get new ideas, MS did. They came up with the 95 look, Why not make a totaly new look for linux to just stomp all over any other os, I mean if we are gonna support it, and make the lit os big time, Lets really go all the way this time. I've been there watching and helping linux grow as much as i could, It's been a long time.. But linux without big names helping it came this far, Now we have Intel, HP, and other helping, It's time to make something new happen, Quit lagassing on it, Lets get this itch going now.. While we can.

Hey, If you like MS, thats fine by me, Just don't try to lay the blame on me, You also have about 100,000+ other sysadmins, and programers to flame also... :)

Hey look it's very simple... (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999936)

Hey it's simple.. If you want crashing apps and sleep statments, Us Windows 9x or NT,

And if you want raw power and a os than can boot up supporting 10,000+ users on a system costing lest that $1200.00 under 30 secs, get linux and a 300a celeron.. it's a great setup for a linux system, Don't forget SCSI drives.. :)

oh, it's *FREE* :) (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1999937)

Well DUH! :) j/j

The only thing i charge for is the setup.
Everything else is free. Our email is totaly free, And hey some people (maybe not you) but most like not having spam everywhere.

I mean c'mon i have to make some money to eat off of.. Same thing with the ads on /.
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