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Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Express, VS 2005 Beta

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the express-to-impress dept.

Microsoft 541

An anonymous reader writes "At the TechEd Europe keynote today, Microsoft launched Visual Studio 2005 Beta 1. With it, they also released a set of five 'Express Editions' of Visual Studio. These currently free applications offer a student and hobbyist-oriented version of Visual Studio, and are available in C#, C++, VB, Web Developer, and SQL flavors. Each download weighs in at right around 50MB and features tools, documentation, and starter kits. There's been multiple posts and more information on this announcement over at MSDN Blogs, too." Update: 06/29 13:57 GMT by S : A clarification from the Express FAQ: Although the Beta Express products are currently free to download: "We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year."

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559456)

first

Difference between this and full version (1, Interesting)

Mourgos (621534) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559467)

What is the difference between this and the full version of Visual Studio?

Re:Difference between this and full version (1)

ITman75 (671124) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559483)

usually if they release an express it is for just viewing those type of documents.

Like volo view express, it is just to view cad drawing but you can't do anything but view them.

Re:Difference between this and full version (1)

mrwonton (456172) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559590)

That raelly wouldn't apply here. You don't need any special tools to view C++ code, unless you consider a text editor a special tool.

Re:Difference between this and full version (5, Informative)

jeff67 (318942) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559498)

RTFFAQ [microsoft.com]

Re:Difference between this and full version (1)

marnargulus (776948) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559534)

Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition enables you to create Windows Forms- and console-based applications as well as class libraries.

Visual C# 2005 Express Edition enables you to create Windows Forms- and console-based applications as well as class libraries.

Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition enables you to create Windows Forms- and console-based applications as well as class libraries.

Visual J# 2005 Express Edition enables you to create Windows Forms- and console-based applications as well as class libraries.

Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition is focused exclusively on Web development with ASP.NET 2.0. Choose from Visual Basic, C#, or J# languages.



They also released SQL Server 2005 Express (Very nice for web developement) which they say:
SQL Server 2005 Express Edition complements the other Express products by providing database support that is both powerful and easy to use.

So it looks like these are functional development tools, however they don't have all the extras (or dead weight to some) that the others have. I personally think this would be great for those of us who can't afford the full version on our home computers, and would still like to work on small projects.

Re:Difference between this and full version (4, Informative)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559576)

Each download caters to a specific language, one of the coolest features is to have comprehensive support for multiple language projects in a single workspace. Seems to be editor, debugger, GUI designer. Enough to get you started. None of the nice toys like analyser, test center, visio etc come with them. Nice to see they have included refactoring though, a huge ommission from previous versions.

That's cool (2)

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWX (761698) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559468)

It's good to see Microsoft trying to get on board with at least the spirit of Open Source.

Re:That's cool (4, Insightful)

OptimizedPrime (558992) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559490)

No, this may be free as in beer, but they are definitly not meeting the "free" spirit of Open Source. It looks like you can't make commercial products with these, which is certainly not free/open

Re:That's cool (2, Informative)

Murf_E (754550) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559535)

Actually its not free at all M$ says they will release prices next calendar year and they will be "low-cost"

Re:That's cool (1)

computational super (740265) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559627)

It looks like you can't make commercial products with these

Where did you see this? I looked all over the site (since I suspected this would be the "catch") and never found this issue addressed positively or negatively. I sort of suspected that these tools would be tied to some "special" version of the C standard library or something that has some legalese licensing restriction on redistribution.

Re:That's cool (3, Insightful)

mopslik (688435) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559493)

It's good to see Microsoft trying to get on board with at least the spirit of Open Source.

Except that it's not Open Source, just free (as in price) software. Sure to raise some hackles around here.

Re:That's cool (1)

Doomrat (615771) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559501)

It's good to see Microsoft trying to get on board with at least the spirit of Open Source.

You seem to think that anything free has to compete with your beloved Open Source paradigm. You'd be helping the project a lot more if you didn't zealously compare anything free with it. You're just exercising a negative stereotype about the typical geek.

Re:That's cool (0)

melgeroth (726004) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559504)

The spirit of open source, not free software. They are attempting to fight fire with fire, and in the eyes of the common man they are. But this != "free" (libre).

free as in free beer? (0)

Squiddl3 (745702) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559527)

so you mean the spirit of Open Source includes free as in free beer?
I thought always that's exactly NOT the point or any point on open source.

So its a really bad try. The only thing they do is getting news coverage in connection with free. And thanks to you in connection with open source in a positive way. What a mess...

Re:That's cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559556)

Spirit of "warez", you mean. Very, very, very different.

Re:That's cool (4, Informative)

jeff67 (318942) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559564)

It's not free in any sense of the word.

a. It's BETA, meaning not done and unsupported, not free
b. "We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire."
c. as previously stated, there is no permission for distributing apps built with it

Re:That's cool (3, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559581)

Actually this is a move to knock out DevC++, gcc, Eclipse, and Netbeans.
The more you get people to use "windows only" solutions the better microsoft feels.
They know it is all about the developers and want to lock them down as hard and as fast they can.

Hello how about Evolution for Windows to compete with Outlook?

Sweet! (4, Insightful)

Pxtl (151020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559475)

Say what you will about MS, but Visual Studio has always been an excellent product. Nice debugger, and VB is an excellent RAD language (particularly the GUI-drawing system).

Re:Sweet! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559529)

I've found their build system to be nightmarish, but maybe that's just me.

Re:Sweet! (1)

XMyth (266414) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559656)

True. They have begun to address that though. They've included a Nant like build system called "msbuild". They're also releasing a new (and supposedly greatly improved) version of the disgrace that is Visual SourceSafe.

Re:Sweet! (1, Flamebait)

melgeroth (726004) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559555)

Not really. From what i've seen (C++ only really), they have the word optimization routines of any compiler. I agree though that VB is the best RAD language i've seen (though I hear good things about delphi as well).

Re:Sweet! (2, Informative)

110010001000 (697113) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559667)

Actually, MSVC++ has the best optimization of any x86 compiler. It certainly blows away gcc/egcs.

Re:Sweet! (2, Informative)

revin (191651) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559559)

I totally agree... as I am into java-web-coding I was always a bit of jealous on that gui drawing system. I'm glad Sun had a good look to it while building Java Studio Creator (http://wwws.sun.com/software/products/jscreator/)
where you can use the java server faces (JSF)framework to nicely draw your work.

RAD? (5, Funny)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559602)

Interesting ideas, but I would say VB is an excellent prototyping tool.

I wouldn't say it has many advantages in terms of real system development, and I wouldn't want to list any of the disadvantages.

VB does indeed have a fairly nice UI drawing tool, and you can simply link many forms together, some would say you can even program with it! :-)

Don't forget: Devleopers developers developers developers, etc :-)

Re:Sweet! (4, Insightful)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559641)

I gotta agree with you. As a Windows developer, I am infuriated on an almost daily basis by Microsoft, but I have to say I actually enjoy using Visual Studio. It's reasonably simple (if you ignore the next-to-useless, pseudo-CASE tools), flexible enough to let you do what you need, and it works... I've been using VS6 for about 5 or 6 years and it's solid as a rock. I'd like to upgrade, but the project I'm using is staying with VS6 for now.

I will say I have no interest in .NET, "managed code" and all the other well-meaning but ultimately frightening things that they are doing to the tools. I can tell you that every two or three years they regild OLE, tack a new name on it and try to sell it as something other than a hodge-podge of incomprehensible and poorly documented cookbook tools. My philosophy with MS development has always been, the development environment is great, the libraries suck.

feeding the addiction (1, Funny)

bumperbanana (788655) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559478)

This is another example of trying to get people hooked into their products... now if only Linux was available in stripped down cheap versions the world would be a better place *confused*

Re:feeding the addiction (1)

jeff67 (318942) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559615)

It is, and they are not pretending it is not:
"Microsoft is committed to helping you "graduate" to higher-end products "

Stripped down versions & Alternatives (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559636)

Man, I ain't got time to waste on waiting for a cheaper stripped down version, I just ripped the iso off some warez server, erm, I think it was ftp.suse.com :-)

Alternative to Visual Studio:
Eclipse

That is it! You can develop in C++, Python, PERL, XSP, Eiffel and even *gasp* Java :-)

Microsoft do have decent development software, you cannot deny that it is that, decent.

about time (0)

it0 (567968) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559481)

Smartest thing they every did.

Glad I got the Boss to Shell Out (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559486)

Man, and I was already having bad feelings about asking my company to shell out the $15000 for 5 licenses of VS.Net. This doesn't help.

do they.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559488)

stand out side the schoolgates pushing these?

Most important question: (2, Interesting)

Progman3K (515744) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559496)

Does it run under Linux?

Nope, this is NOT a troll; the earlier versions of Microsoft Developer Studio didn't run under Linux, at least nut under Wine.

Since I've abandoned Windows, but must still develop software for it, I am really curious to know if this WILL run under Linux/Wine.

Re:Most important question: (4, Insightful)

AgntOrnge (718563) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559546)

I'm not a software dev but is it common for people to develop on a platform different than the one they are developing for? Common sense to me says it would be a PITA as far as testing etc but like I said, I don't do it so what do I know.

Re:Most important question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559565)

As long as the code works, he doesn't care. He can blame the holes and bugs on Microsoft, and then claim Linux is much better because people really care about the code...

Not really (2, Interesting)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559592)

I develop servlets on my Windows b0xx3n, then deploy 'em to the *nix hardware. Locally WIndows because IT only knows how to support MS, and all the business drones couldn't do without IE ("the internet") and Outlook ("the email"). We Who Know Better use a heavy-duty OS for serving apps to the web/intranet.

Re:Most important question: (3, Informative)

Bazzargh (39195) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559645)

Yes, it's very, very common. Think embedded systems. Think PDAs. Think mainframes.

Re:Most important question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559569)

This would indeed be interesting

Earlier versions av VB ran under Wine so these stripped down versions might once again perhaps be usable under Wine ?

Re:Most important question: (2, Interesting)

gracefool (649481) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559611)

In fact, it doesn't even run on earlier versions of Windows; it requires at least Windows 2000 or XP.

Re:Most important question: (1)

zhiwenchong (155773) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559624)

I doubt it.

It's likely that the IDEs are written for .NET like the current Visual Studio is. .NET programs are more or less runnable under Mono, but the problem is System.Windows.Forms, which most Windows .NET programs use.

System.Windows.Forms support is incomplete in Mono at the moment.

Re:Most important question: (3, Interesting)

Merlin42 (148225) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559637)

Just tried in crossover office v3.0.1 and the installer fails with an extremely obtuse message:
Error:
A problem has been encountered while loading the setup
components. Cancelling setup.

Definitely worried about free development tools (-1, Flamebait)

incuso (747340) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559500)

or, rather, about *x free development tools :)

Way to Go Microsoft (0)

Fenis-Wolf (239374) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559502)

Step #1-Release cut down versions of popular programming environment
Step #2-Get students and home users hooked on Microsoft development software
Step #3-Profit? ....well that didn't work out how I wanted it to.

Just like the old DOS days (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559503)

Remember that part of early MS-DOS's success was the fact that "debug" and qbasic came with it. Granted, they are primitive tools compared to today but it did hook a lot of early developers into that platform.

Re:Just like the old DOS days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559585)

Qbasic appeared with dos5. Hardly "early" MS-DOS; it was a monopoly by then after crushing competitors such as DR-DOS by the usual methods.

debug is an older tool, but the functionality of this was hardly a MS-DOS exclusive. Most devs, anyway, used the debuggers included with their compiler packages because, y'know, they didn't suck.

Free during beta, pricing for release TBA (5, Informative)

damieng (230610) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559507)

Heaven forbid that somebody reads before they submit to Slashdot... from the Express Edition FAQ [microsoft.com] :

Q: "Are the Express Edition products free?"

A: "We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire."

Can you make a commercial product? (4, Interesting)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559577)

Will the EULA allow development of commercial products? Lots of "hobby" or "student" projects end up for sale or as shareware. Will people making that switch then have to buy the real thing?

Everyone should just download Eclipse and MinGW instead. If these aren't up to snuff then fix the problem - you're a software developer after all....

Mod parent up! (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559593)

Parent is right on! Looks like another case where the submitter didn't RTFFAQ.

Thses are not free as in beer (let alone speech). These are free as in 'you don't get paid to test their products for them'.

Re:Free during beta, pricing for release TBA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559622)

They will still be free in Kazaa/Emule/BitTorrent though.

Re:Free during beta, pricing for release TBA (1)

x0n (120596) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559643)

There is one exception: SQL Server 2005 Express. This appears to be free, like MSDE was. Limited to 1CPU, 1GB of ram and 4GB database size. Also has CLR,XML support.

- Oisin

Re:Free during beta, pricing for release TBA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559663)

So what?

ICQ's been in 'free public beta' for years!

For great free, open source IDEs I recommend... (4, Informative)

Glock27 (446276) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559512)

you visit the Eclipse [eclipse.org] and NetBeans [netbeans.org] sites.

As an added bonus, both are cross-platform. ;-)

Re:For great free, open source IDEs I recommend... (1)

treerex (743007) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559634)

Yes, but they do not include the compiler or debugger, so you are still getting more from Express.

Re:For great free, open source IDEs I recommend... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559655)

And for Python, Perl and C++ using wxWidgets [wxwidgets.org] (formerly wxWindows) there is VisualWX [altervista.org] .

Great! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559513)

Now everyone can create secure, robust and reliable software.

gcc (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559521)

A lot of people jump to linux to learn to code because the startup cost for a compiler is 0.

This will likely stop a good number of future linux devs. :(

Re:gcc (1)

Umrick (151871) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559600)

Howso? Various incarnations of gcc have existed for Windows NT/2000 for years. Cygwin [cygwin.com] and MinGW [mingw.org] have both been available for years.

If all you wanted was gcc, then those are a heck of a lot more digestable than a full Linux distribution just to get vi and gcc.

A smart move (4, Insightful)

Albanach (527650) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559522)

This strikes me as a smart move. How many here discovered Linux while looking for a development platform as a student?

Microsoft are attempting to lock students in, probably even before they hit tertiary education.

Most of the big distros come with good development tools these days. Still I bet Microsoft's tight integration is going to present a new challenge to the open source community.

How is Whidbey's C++ IntelliSense? (1)

mattgreen (701203) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559524)

My pet project breaks VS.NET 2003's IntelliSense to the point that sometimes the IDE becomes unstable. Perhaps it is the multiple layers of template instantiation it has trouble following; but regardless I hope they have improved things on this front. At least the compiler doesn't suck as much as it used to.

Smart move (1)

suman28 (558822) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559525)

They saw SunOne and most of the Java IDE's being given away. So, to capture the user base and tie them down to Windows, they are now goign to give it away. Anyone ever notice that this "Express" is for home users only?

Re:Smart move (1)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559588)

Anyone ever notice that this "Express" is for home users only?

I don't really see that as an issue. If you're a professional developer, you're going to want the best IDE for whatever you're doing. A rational craftsman in any field is not going to skimp on his tools.

Granted, I'm not saying Visual Studio is ideal for every project. I almost certainly wouldn't use it for a Java project, for example. However, in some cases, I believe VS would be the right tool for the job, and well worth its cost in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, I still swear and shake my fist at Visual Studio sometimes when I use it -- but no more so than any IDE I've used.

Quotes in wrong place (4, Insightful)

jobsagoodun (669748) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559526)

Should be on 'free', not 'express'.

Isn't this false logic? (3, Interesting)

nontrivial (222436) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559528)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Microsoft on one hand selling customized and stripped versions of thier products (both Visual Studio Express here and XP Starter Edition in Thailand) and on the other hand railing against courts requiring them to do the exact same thing here and in Europe? Furthermore, didn't they say it would be impossible or at least extremely dificult to do what they are doign now in the US court they got out of?

Re:Isn't this false logic? (1)

orion41us (707362) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559601)

I think you are refering to the 1998 anti-trust case [winnetmag.com] where the courts tried to block win98 because it came with IE.

Express Projects not compatible with VS2003 Projec (5, Informative)

buro9 (633210) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559532)


Quote: "When you open a Visual Studio .NET 2003 Web project in Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition, the project is converted to the new, simpler project layout used with Visual Studio 2005. The conversion process also converts existing .aspx pages, .ascx files and other files into a new format; for example, .aspx pages are converted to use the new code-behind model. You can therefore work with existing projects using Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition, but the conversion process is one-way and you will not be able to continue work with them in Visual Studio .NET 2003. Note that the conversion process creates a backup of your project before the conversion begins."

So here starts the next layer of conversion hell!

VB Express? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559539)

can i install it on my linux boxen? .... and imagine a beowulf cluster of these! /think ..great RAD tool yeah so good it takes 48k to say "hello world"

all your RAD are belong to microsoft

Passport required .. (5, Informative)

wazlaf (681158) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559542)

I would have loved to at least give it a try, but it requires you to log in using Microsoft Passport! Bad idea! I think many people are not willing to sign up for Passport - even for goodies like this...

Nice Move (1, Insightful)

ReallyNiceGuy (721792) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559544)

This is a very inteligent move from Microsoft to fight the Open Source movement. Making the tools free for use will (theoretically) create a motivation for writing Open Source applications for Windows. But this was already done by Borland, with its free version of the Delphi/Kylix programming environment. I think that this only shows that the pressure that the Open Source is putting over Microsoft reached the pain threshold.

Free compilers!?! (1)

ObjetDart (700355) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559545)

What a concept!

license (2, Insightful)

abe ferlman (205607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559547)

I understand that this was released under a license reminiscent of the KWPL [pintday.org] , better known as the Kjell Woodson Public License [pintday.org] . Nice to see a little more truth in advertising!

Re:license (1)

abe ferlman (205607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559572)

Correction - that's "Wooding", not "Woodson". Sorry Kjell!

Thank you (1)

fetus (322414) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559549)

Its about damn time. Visual Studio provides some really nice stuff and almost no one knows about it because it's so expensive. Microsoft is finally understanding that free developer tools will bring more people to learn MS languages - tough concept!

(note: don't re: about that Web Matrix CRAP)

Free? (1)

Doomrat (615771) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559551)

It's worth pointing out that only the beta is free, and only for the time being.

"We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire."

It's still a product.

Will this work with the Nokia Series 60 SDK? (2, Interesting)

motown (178312) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559552)

Hmmm...

I've been wanting to try out Nokia's free (GCC-based) SDK for Series 60 Symbian platforms, but it requires Visual Studio, which I'm not prepared to buy.

There was a website out there somewhere that explained how to set up the SDK on a Linux system, but it was quite a hassle. And the emulator (which is necessary for debugging) didn't run under Linux anyway.

Although I'd be disappointed to boot Windows once more after having used Linux exclusively for some time now, I'd really like to do some serious Series 60 development.

Perhaps it will soon be possible to combine Nokia's SDK with both ReactOS and this free Visual Studio version. At least I'd still be working on a mostly open-source development platform, then! :D

By the way, if anybody can give me some pointers on setting up the Nokia SDK without having to rely on Visual Studio (and if possible without having to use any Microsoft software) while still being able to use a debugger, then please let me know, even though this is blatently off-topic. :)

AMD64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559553)

So does this include an AMD64 compatible version of the .net framework, or are we stuck using VS 6.0 to develop on AMD64? Microsoft says they want to support 64 bit extensions, but they sure haven't been making it easy.

Not Sure about free (4, Informative)

Merlin42 (148225) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559557)

***FROM THE FAQ***

# Are the Express Edition products free?

We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire.

# When will the Express products, and the rest of the Visual Studio 2005 product line, be officially released?

The Visual Studio 2005 family of products will likely be released in the first half of 2005. Microsoft will continue to release Community Technology Previews (CTPs) and beta releases of the Visual Studio 2005 family of products until then.

Important to note... (2, Informative)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559562)

...that they have made only the beta versions of the Express products free. There's no mention of whether the final version's pricing. Personally, I expect them to replace the 'Standard' editions of the languages as they stand currently.

Interesting to see SQL Server Express 2005. As it's based on the Yukon engine, that it something I'll be downloading and playing with. I have no idea what edition of SQL Server this would replace, possibly Developer in the long run? It's mentioned that it's installed in a full VS 2005 install...

Great! (0, Troll)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559566)

Now I can finally learn to program! I'll just head on over and get that Visual Basic thing, I hear it's easy to use.

When I was 11, I wanted to learn programming. I had QuickBasic 4.5 on a 386 (Win3.1), a TRS-80 (w/ Basic), and an IBM PC (w/ GWBasic). I tried to get a C compiler, but I couldn't find one on any of the local BBSs and didn't have any money to buy anything. So I was stuck with Basic.

I realize that it's easier nowadays to come by serious, free programming tools. But this is a good thing for future programmers, and a smart move for Microsoft.

Adjectives... (1)

k4_pacific (736911) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559575)

So, how long before Microsoft runs out of modifiers to attach to the word addition? We have:

Visual Studio Express Edition
Windows XP Starter Addition
Windows Millenium Edition
Windows XP Home Edition
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows XP Media Center Edition
Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition
Windows Server 2003, Web Edition
Windows NT 4.0, Terminal Server Edition
SQL Server Developer Edition
SQL Server Enterprise Edition

Re:Adjectives... (1)

marnargulus (776948) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559599)

Don't forget their mac ports:

iVisual Studio Express Edition iWindows XP Starter Addition iWindows Millenium Edition iWindows XP Home Edition iWindows 98 Second Edition iWindows XP Media Center Edition iWindows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition iWindows XP Tablet PC Edition iWindows Server 2003, Web Edition iWindows NT 4.0, Terminal Server Edition iSQL Server Developer Edition iSQL Server Enterprise Edition

Or you can use this... (3, Interesting)

Zepalesque (468881) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559578)

Or you can use this fine dot NET development enviornment.

Free [icsharpcode.net]

MFC not included - again (1)

julesh (229690) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559579)

Just like the free command line tools, the Visual Studio C++ Express edition doesn't include MFC. This severely restricts the capabilities of the system, as almost all sample Windows code is written using MFC.

Although maybe we'll start seeing more applications that don't use MFC in future. That would be nice.

Anyone know of a free MFC re-implementation?

Re:MFC not included - again (1)

GSV Ethics Gradient (779784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559610)

The whole point is to get people writing .NET (i.e. WinForms) based applications. MFC is dead and burried as far as MS is concerned.

MFC missing is a *bonus*, not a *bug* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559623)

I'd suspect most of the bloat in Microsoft products comes from MFC.

Why bother with it?

Re:MFC not included - again (5, Insightful)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559629)

You don't ----neeeeeeeeed----- MFC, and in fact I would advise you to stay the hell away from it.

Use wxWidgets [wxwindows.org] , or some other framework instead. For fun, why not try something like ClanLib... [clanlib.org]

MFC is godawful. Once you've tried a few of the other frameworks that allow you to write cross-platform GUI code for Windows, I doubt you'll disagree with me ...

"Hobbyists?" (0)

kenners (736483) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559583)

Are there many code-writing hobbyist-oriented types (still a funny term to me :) looking to download a free microsoft developer tool? I'd think most of the "hobbyists" would be affiliated with open-source programs and, because I'm an ignorant and generalizing person, alternative development platforms.

Re:"Hobbyists?" (3, Informative)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559662)

You can get Borland development tools under a similar licence (i.e. free-as-in-beer for non-commercial use only).

And Borland certainly have more interest in cross-platform development than M$.

Not "free" (3, Interesting)

GSV Ethics Gradient (779784) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559586)

Note that the Beta is free but the final product won't be:
We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire.
So it will depend on the MS definition of "low-cost". I can't see any distribution limits like the old student editions that cannot be used to create commercial (or even free) software - are they hiding in there somewhere?

At least it is highly secure beta software (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559598)

Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition comes with a built-in Web development server that enables you to build and test applications without a dependency on IIS. The server only accepts local requests and is for build and test only.

yeah... SURE it does...

A Move in the Right Direction (3, Insightful)

barryfandango (627554) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559603)

Note that only the Express Betas are free - the final products will be a low-cost alternative, I suppose, for the hobbyist or beginning programmer.

What I would love to see is a return to the days when a development environment was automatically included with a system (like QBASIC was with DOS.) I think a lot of young programmers would get a good start if some bundled, easy-to-use development tools were waiting for them on install (Like C# Express right next to WordPad in the Accessories folder.)

It's sort of amusing that as Microsoft continually "expands" the concept of what qualifies as an OS (Web Browser, Media Player) they've removed another element that used to be considered primary and indispensable.

Suppose they're afraid (1)

Eudial (590661) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559607)

Suppose they're afraid that if everyone starts out with applications like KDevelop and Eclipse they'll loose ground. I'd be if i were them.

Missing the [share|free]ware scene? (1, Insightful)

Basje (26968) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559620)

A few years back a lot of software was made by hobbyists to scratch an itch. Many of these programs weren't much, but it kept a lot of computer enthousiasts on windows, and made for some very innovative/useful tools.

Nowadays, this niche is largely filled with F/OSS. Thus the MS platform is deprived of free help for home users, and misses out on home innovation. I cannot help to think MS is trying to win back some hobbyists/developers to their platform. This move reinforces that thought.

A + ? = Profit (2, Funny)

syntap (242090) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559628)

We have a rich databinding model in Visual Studio 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0 -- one that supports binding ASP.NET controls against a variety of different data sources. One of these data-sources is the "" control, which is specifically designed to enable you to bind against middle tier object layers, enabling true n-tier databinding using ASP.NET 2.0 controls.

Even the data source control names are in beta I guess.

Avalon/XAML (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559631)

Are these technologies covered by these tools?

May NOT remain free (0, Redundant)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559633)

Read carefully from the FAQ [microsoft.com] :

Are the Express Edition products free?

We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire.

Express Editions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9559647)

I think the express refers to the fact that the compiler in these versions will let anything get compiled even if it doesn't work - now thats express!

how about some free cigarettes? (0, Troll)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559648)

Visual Studio encourages people who don't know what they're doing to go into the biz, then once you're hooked, you have to buy the products... eeww!

Glad to be prgramming in VB (1, Funny)

Zepalesque (468881) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559658)

The guy assigned to use the VB express edition of looks positively ecstatic [microsoft.com] .

Maybe they are trying to find an answer to XCode (3, Interesting)

foidulus (743482) | more than 10 years ago | (#9559670)

XCode is probably more analgous to this release than open source *nix tools. Apple distributes XCode free with Panther(and an updated version will come out with Tiger). It is free as in beer, but not open source. However, the panther release probably isn't as nice as Visual Studio, here is hoping they improve some stuff in 2.0...
However, you can release commercial code with XCode if you so desire. Although it doesn't have BASIC or C#, it does have support for Java, applescript, and more.
Feh, I still think I will stick with XCode.
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