×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Bulk Data Storage For The Common Man?

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the the-common-man-with-a-tb-a-month dept.

Data Storage 483

Vigyaan writes "Lately, I have been looking into different bulk data storage options available to a common man. My work depends on generating, storing and analyzing a large amount of data -- averaging about 1 TB per month. I would like to have a storage system which is automated, fast, reliable and most importantly does not cost the price of an eye. Right now, I have a 4 node Linux cluster with 10 large hard disks (total capacity 1.6 TB); data storage roughly costs about $0.60/GB (excluding the cost of PC hardware). But long term storage is painful -- DVDs cost about $0.10-$0.15/GB but takes too much human time and leaving data on hard disks makes me nervous because of possible failures. RAID is a possibility, but it increases the cost significantly. I was wondering, if Slashdot readers have any recommendations for a cheap automated way to store and retrieve data."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

483 comments

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616495)

FP

Back to the Future (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616500)

Use Doc's time machine, and you can bring some super-mega-future storage back.

Finally a use for my 1GB Gmail invites... (4, Funny)

anakin357 (69114) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616501)

I'll send you a couple.

Re:Finally a use for my 1GB Gmail invites... (0, Offtopic)

G-funk (22712) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616705)

I know somebody who'd appreciate them ;-)

*whistles innocently*

I have one (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616502)

Floppy disks.

Re:I have one (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616527)

Punchcards

Re:I have one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616595)

Binders full of zeros and ones.

Give Up Now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616504)

"..hard disks makes me nervous because of possible failures." everything can possibly fail. I do not know the failure rate of DVDs, but I suspect it is very low and comparable to other mediums. Anyone have a figure on this?

Re:Give Up Now (5, Informative)

Zone-MR (631588) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616667)

No figures, but I think the opposite. I've had several DVD-R disks which I've written backups to only to discover that they are unreadable a year later. My personal experience has been that HD's are unreliable, but less unreliable than writable DVDs.

Of course higher quality media might be better, but then you can no longer quote the $0.10/GB figure.

FP - Shadowrunner (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616506)

The violation of Rob Malda (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on 01:01 PM November 11th, 2003 (#7441124)
Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda stepped off the bus and was led into the yard of the Main
State Correctional Institute. He had been given ten years for participating in
a stock fraud. Five with good behavior. Years spent basking in the glow of a
CRT had been hard on him. His body was frail, his skin pallid. He knew he could
never make it through ten years in the general population with his virginity
intact. He had to get into solitary.

As soon as the burly guard unshackled him he made his move. Exhaling a feminine
"hmmph" he weakly slapped the guard. He was quickly taken to the ground,
receiving a swift kick to the ribs before being restrained. As he was dragged
to the solitary confinement cell he felt nothing but relief. "At least in
solitary," he thought "I'll be safe." Unfortunately for Rob he had picked the
wrong guard to mess with.

The next few days were uneventful. The time in his cell he spent evenly between
sleeping, reading a "Perl for Dummies" book he had gotten from the book cart,
and masturbating furiously. His self-flagellation was interrupted on the fourth
day. The burly guard he had attacked earlier stepped into his cell. The gleam
in the guards eye and the mean grin on his face made Rob's pecker quickly
shrivel in his hand. "You fucked with the wrong man when you fucked with
Michael Simms," said the guard. "The inmates here call me The Asshole for a
reason. Now come with me, punk."

The guard led him down the hall to one of several empty shower stalls. He
roughly threw Rob in the stall and locked the door. Rob was petrified. His mind
raced as he imagined the myriad of different tortures that could be in store
for him. His worst fears were confirmed when the guard returned. In his hands
were a short black dress, black stilleto heels, and a curly blonde wig. "Strip
down and put this on, bitch." Rob did as instructed and was pleased to notice
that the dress fit well and the heels gave him a nice slimming effect. The
burly guard admired the drag queen. "The GNAA is gonna love you!"

The guard left the shower stall, only to return minutes later. He opened the
door and led 20 large black men into the stall. "Rob, meet the Gay Nigger
Association of America. GNAA, meet Rob. I'm sure you all will get along fine."
With that the guard slammed the shower door closed and walked away laughing.

The men approached Rob, backing him into a corner. The apparent leader stepped
forward. "No matter what I'm gonna fuck that purdy lil' ass of yours. Now I can
fuck it dry or you can lube it up for me." Rob knew he had no choice. He
kneeled in front of the leader, who began to slap his face with his 10 black
inches. Puss from syphilictic sores quickly covered Rob's cheeks. When the
leader was sufficiently aroused he placed his throbbing cock up to Rob's lips.
As soon as Rob opened his mouth the leader violently shoved his manhood to the
back of Rob's throat and exclaimed "Swallow my shit you cracker bitch!" Rob
gagged as he was violently face fucked.

Just when he was about to pass out the leader pulled out, turned him around and
shoved his cock into Rob's ass. Rob began to scream in agony but his cries were
quickly muffled by one of the other gang member's cocks. They rode him like
that for the better part of an hour. When one man finished another quickly took
his place. Just as Rob was getting used to the throbbing pain in his anus the
men stopped. One man lay down on the floor and Rob was told to get on top of
him and take his dick inside him. Exhausted and humiliated, Rob had no will
left to fight. As soon as he inserted the penis another man came up behind him
and began to force his cock into Rob's already filled anus. Again his screams
of agony were muffled, this time by a smelly black anus.

For another hour he was violated in this way. When the men were finished with
him he couldn't walk and his mouth was filled with dingleberries and ass hairs.
Before they all left the leader had some parting words for Rob: "Thanks for
that sweet piece of ass, punk. We'll see you again tomorrow. Oh by the way, we
all have AIDS." It was going to be a long ten years for Rob.

Hard disks (5, Informative)

ConsumedByTV (243497) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616508)

You're always going to get a better rate with Hard drives but you're going to be prone to failure.

If you buy them in bulk you can save.

Burning DVDs is going to take you forever and drive you nuts.

Find a hotswappable set of drives and use that for your offline backups. Use a raid for your current backups.

Re:Hard disks (1)

Rik van Riel (4968) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616537)

My personal option for smaller data sets would be hard disks too. Specifically, hard disks in external fast-usb or firewire enclosures, so they really become hot pluggable.

A friend tells me that 20GB tapes are cheap. With a simple tape changing robot that might be manageable, just put in a new tape container every day...

Re:Hard disks (4, Informative)

littlerubberfeet (453565) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616672)

hard disks are good.

If you want one of those nifty things with robotic arms and whatnot, plan on spending upwards of $3500. The AIT Automated Tape Library goes for that much and holds only 15 tapes. Plan on spending tens of thousands for something like Ampex's DIS 914 for 30 Terabytes.

Your friend is right: tapes or cheap. The equipment needed to support them is expensive, slow and error prone. It gets cost effective once you have enough money for a new Porsche though...

Re:Hard disks (1)

momogasuki (790667) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616639)

My company uses hard drives for backups. We make backups on redundant hard drives, some of which are located off site.

Hard drives are prone to failure, but so are DVDs or any other storage medium. We chose hard drives because they are cheap, fast, and automated backups are easy.

Re:Hard disks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616691)

How can that be modded informative is a total mystery to me. Redundant at best would do the trick.

You are basically re-writing the original story with your own words. How is that supposed to help that poor guy?

4*400Go Sata on Raid 5 (5, Informative)

da5idnetlimit.com (410908) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616695)

depending on the value of your data, you should try having a nice 4*400Go SATA in raid 5 *2, possibly using a distributed file system for redundancy...

Not the cheapest, but fast, simple and saves you the unholy pleasure of having 2-3 DLT boxes to archive/cycle each month...

You already have a linux cluster, so implementing a distributed file system, or even simply a nightly incremental mirror to the target server if you can afford losing one day work/computation...

It would help if you told us what sort of data you work with... from databases and to automated telescope tracking system, both need large amount of storage, but you won't need the same system array for each...

I seem to remember a /. story [slashdot.org] on a rackable Petabyte storage system [archive.org]

You don't need to go to the Petabyte capacuty but you will find some interesting comments on filesystems, disk virtualisation, 1U rack providers and so on....so a 1 Terabyte rack server is definetly possible...

Good luck...

1024 GMail Accounts (0, Redundant)

OrangeCarrot (92462) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616509)

Hook yourself up with as many gmail accounts as you can. Email yourself 1GB chunks of data whenever you need to back up your stuff.

Lots of Gmail Accounts (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616510)

Can't go wrong with Gmail!!

!RAID (2, Informative)

therandthem (602983) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616515)

On the subject of RAID please remember, if it's spinning, it ain't a backup!

Re:!RAID (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616545)

Why not ?

I have a number of drives that are older than many CDs I have burned and that then failed.

Re:!RAID (4, Insightful)

ecalkin (468811) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616563)

because it protects against device failure, not *user* error. if you delete a file from a raid array, it's gone. that's part of what offline is all about.

eric

GMail accounts (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616519)

Okay, so you need a TB of storage... that's 1000 GMail accounts. I hear the invitations are flowing like wine these days, so that shouldn't be a problem. Shouldn't be difficult to automate a process which breaks down what you need stored then emails it off to these GMail accounts. You just have to think outside of the box.

Wirewire drives? (5, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616522)

For long term storage, how do you feel about firewire drives? Maybe not as cheap as you'd like, but you can get them in >160 gig flavors, plus you can hook them up to just about anything. Once you do the backup, which'd be a simple copy and paste, you can just unplug the drive and store it in a safe or something.

Again, I'm not sure if that's as cheap as you'd want, but that's a solution I came up with for a similar problem. My company's going to be 3D rendering some stuff that could end up eating 50 megabytes a frame. (Extra data is stored for future refinement... I can go into detail if I've piqued anybody's curiosity.) We can't afford to lose this data, so the Firewire drive approach is what we're considering right now.

Re:Wirewire drives? (3, Informative)

Rik van Riel (4968) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616557)

For long term storage, how do you feel about firewire drives? Maybe not as cheap as you'd like,

Oh, but they are cheap. Just buy a large IDE disk and a $30 firewire/fast-usb enclosure.

I'm just not sure about the "long term", though. I have no idea what the shelf life of a hard disk is.

Re:Wirewire drives? (5, Informative)

littlerubberfeet (453565) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616619)

Lemme address the firewire thing: I work in a sound studio, and we generate about 5-8 gigs of data a month, mostly music for TV. This isn't a huge amount, but we rely on multiple sets of Firewire drives for backup and then internal hard drives for current projects. This means we have all 400 or so projects at our fingertips. Given how fast we do things, this is important.

Lacie makes their 1 terabyte firewire (943 gigabyte formatted) drive. I we get them for $1,080 a drive (Macmall matched Provantage's price). This is more then the article author spends now per gig, but these drives have done quite well in the studio. You can find cheaper firewire though.

We are at the point where hard drives give the best bang for the buck. The only fault of firewire is that my bosses have burned several bridges. ground yourself before unplugging the drives. The bridges were cheap though. In any case, hard drives are probably the most failsafe and cost effective solution, with firewire being the easiest interface to use those drives with.

Re:Wirewire drives? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616690)

So you have data that you can't afford to lose and you're going to store it on a single disk bought from Target? Sounds like a pretty questionable solution.

Personally I prefer something in a blonde (4, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616525)

I was wondering, if Slashdot readers have any recommendations for a cheap automated way to store and retrieve data."

Although the good ones don't come cheap. I guess this another case of "pick any two."

KFG

1TB a month?!? (5, Funny)

stinkydog (191778) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616529)

Short of launching his own space probe, the only way for this guy to consume a TB a month of storage is a serious porn habit. Just post your 'content' on Edonkey and it will be available when you 'need' it. You likely only watch them once anyway.

SD

Re:1TB a month?!? (1, Interesting)

sandwichmaker (565653) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616552)

You have obviously never heard of fMRI studies, have you?

Re:1TB a month?!? (5, Funny)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616638)

** You have obviously never heard of fMRI studies, have you?**

oh shit! I totally missed the part of the history where FMRI scanners came commonplace for men.

oh wait the whole ask slashdot blurb is twisted, the headline implies asking for datastorage possibilities for the common man - yet one of the first things mentioned that he needs it for his special job that generates tb's of data per month. by that definition he is not a common man, except that he hopes to have a miracle solution - that is quite common.

still, a common man would choose whatever possibility gave the cheapest price per gb(probably harddrive). with dvd-r's he would end up burning multiple dvd-r's per day and it's kind of implied that the data would need to be retrievable so he would have to burn the same disc multiple times, even then it wouldn't be a sure thing.

his needs are quite bigh though still, big enough to warrant for professional help since his likely going to be spending quite a bit of money on the thing.

Re:1TB a month?!? (5, Funny)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616593)

Using this method, I have achieved my life long dream of tapeless ( well, everything-less ) backups.

I simply make a tar.bz2 file with all my important files, filter it through gpg, then post it on edonkey, usually titled, "Olsen twins getting it on", and then usually the date.

Viola, instant backup that is available to me whereever I may go.

Re:1TB a month?!? (5, Funny)

Zone-MR (631588) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616680)

Oh, so that explains why that "Olsen Twins Getting it on - 12 Mar 2003.avi" file I downloaded last week contained a zipped tar archive full of boring spreadsheets and a lot of donkey porn.

Re:1TB a month?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616632)

Sorry, but a 1tb porn habit is almost impossible.

Using my comcast 3.5mbps connection to its fullest 24x7 and subscribing to all well-reviewed porn sites then downloading all the content I can, I've only managed to acquire 1.5 terrabytes of porn in six months at a rate of about 250gb/mo tops.

I store my porn on 200gb IDE hard drives which I stick in mylar bags and then into a mylar lined rack of plastic shelving.

Cheap solution (4, Insightful)

codeguru73 (689454) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616530)

Buy some inexpensive IDE drives with high storage capacity and use a software raid solution. What kind of budget do you have anyway?

Rev Drives (2, Informative)

jtwronski (465067) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616531)

Iomega has a somewhat new backup solution out called a rev drive. Its quite a bit like a hard drive, but removable. Mine holds 90GB compressed, and the transfer speed isn't all that bad. I haven't had the opportunity to test it on Linux, So I can't say it will work with your setup. the drive is under 300USD, and about 50USD per cartridge.

Bulk storage? (3, Funny)

mikers (137971) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616534)

I got a couple of drawers of old floppy disks. $10 takes 'em. Plenty of bulk.

The Sony "lifetime" warranty may still be good on them too!

age old problem... (5, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616538)

Ahh the large amount of data that has X value versus a storage solution...

If your data is worth $20,000.00 then a $2000.00 solution is dirt cheap.

what is your data worth? that is where you need to start and then look at the 10-30% of the data's value to start looking at how must to spend on it's storage.

If 1 month's data was lost forever, how much money would it cost the company? that is your actual $ amount that you should be shopping at.

and that is how I got the company to buy a $20,000.00 1000 tape DLT jukebox.

my data is worth over $100,000 a month and is much lower than yours is size.

That is where you need to start. Justify your storage costs by figureing out what it is worth to begin with.

Re:age old problem... (4, Funny)

D-Cypell (446534) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616558)

my data is worth over $100,000 a month

This 'data' doesnt happen to be a large collection of email addresses does it?

What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616697)

Why would you even think that?

Re:age old problem... (3, Informative)

Servo (9177) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616665)

First of all, don't bother with DLT. It is slow, and increasingly more unreliable as DLT is phased out of production and replacement parts are actually refurbs.

What if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616539)

You build a tower of dual-layer DVD burners. Maybe 8. That'd give you 8x9, 72 gigs per loading session. Although, aren't those 50 gig discs supposed to be out soon? 20 of those would be a TB.

Compression and Redundancy (1)

CyanDisaster (530718) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616540)

I'm not sure if you've already thought of this, but would it be possible to remove any redundant data, then compress what is left, or would the data need to be left intact and as-is, so that it can be accessed without any fuss should the need arise?

Hope be with ye,
Cyan

Re:Compression and Redundancy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616585)

Yes, good point. I would suggest Michael Schindler, www.compressconsult.com [compressconsult.com]--he wrote SZIP. The savings in reduced storage requirements will surely outweigh any consulting fees. From his site:

What we can do for you

Since you came here you have a desire to make your data smaller. Reasons could be cut of storage or data transfer costs, limitation of bandwidth or storage capacity. We can help you by choosing a suitable compression for your needs, or, if there is none, develop one. We will also assist you in evaluating other's compression proposals and inform you of potential problems.

We can also point out to you places where we think a lossy compression is possible. We have had a case where a technically speaking lossy compression is still regarded lossless by the client - the compression could not distinguish 1,2,3 from 3,1,2 but the client did not care for the sequence anyway. The difference in compressed size was 2:1 there.

Why consult an expert?

Compare design of a data compression with building a car: If you just need a low-end solution you can do it yourself. If you need an average solution you go ahead and buy a car; you would use a standard library in compression. Even there an expert could help, or you may end up with a two-seater sportscar to transport a family. If you have unusual needs (a "car" to transport spacecrafts, a racing car,...) you go for an expert. You should do the same in compression.

Well... (3, Interesting)

stonecypher (118140) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616541)

Depending on your budget, the appropriate thing to do may be to get an automated DVD burning system to do scheduled incremental backups in duplicate. We used to do that with CDs at an ISP I used to work at. It's unfortunately difficult to search for while not getting people pirating movies, but this is the first thing I found on Google [ymi.com]; doubtless there's better out there.

Tape? (2, Interesting)

darkjedi521 (744526) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616546)

I haven't seen anyone mention magnetic tape yet. I'm sure it has its drawbacks too, but considering its still widely used for backup purposes in a commericial environment, it can't be too bad. Especially depending on how much a cartridge can hold. Its not the cheapest, but it might be something to look into.

Re:Tape? (1)

dnahelix (598670) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616612)

This company [certance.com] came up after a quick search.
I think everyone imagines a room full of those spinning reel-to-reel things when you mention tape. It's archaic, but viable today!

Buy an older tape drive (5, Informative)

Apparition-X (617975) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616548)

Look for an LTO gen 1 or SDLT220/320 on ebay, with a SCSI connection (some of them are fibre, and I assume you don't want to go there!). Don't forget to pick up some tapes. In general, this sounds like it would work if you plan on doing this for a while, and can leverage the initial investment over months or years.

Capacities are (for the cost of a sub $50 tape):
- LTO1: 100 GB uncompressed
- LTO2: 200 GB uncompressed
- SDLT220: 110 GB uncompressed
- SDLT320: 160 GB uncompressed

If your data is particularly ammenable to compression (i.e. database data) you could easily get 3 or 4 to 1 compression with these drives without sinking your CPU utilization.

Oh, I see... (3, Funny)

spinkham (56603) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616550)

You want it fast, cheap, reliable, easy, and now, eh? Good luck with that.... Sounds like a request from the PHB...

1 TB/Month (2, Insightful)

nikonius (17796) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616551)

It does not sound like your needs are anywhere near that of the 'common man'. You sound more like a power user to me. Somethimes you have to pay for heavy-duty storage as the cost of doing business.

Re:1 TB/Month (1)

nikonius (17796) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616579)

I have actually seen 200GB HDs for US$129.99 at discount wharehouses. Buy 6 and RAID5 it in software using linux and you would get a terabyte with some survivabilty.

Sounds like you need a WORM (1)

Durindana (442090) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616553)

Aren't Write-Once Read-Many solutions ideal for this kind of thing?

If you're not looking for permanent backups, the per-media cost may be prohibitive though.

Cheap and Big (2, Insightful)

guamman (527778) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616556)

Tape Drives - Probably the cheapest way to store large amounts of information. The only drawback is that they aren't fast. However, If your harddrives are large enough to hold the data you are currently working on and tapes are used exclusively for backup then a speed problem shouldn't be . . . a problem.

GMAIL (-1, Redundant)

Konster (252488) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616560)

Sign up for a hundred GMAIL accounts and e-mail yourself your backups!

Let Google handle your backup worries!

Porn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616569)

How much porn can one store?

eh (2, Interesting)

maxbang (598632) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616572)

If you don't have the patience for DVD backups (neither do I), then you're pretty much stuck with RAID. So buck up, spend the extra cash, and setup a storage box or two on the network with one or two terabytes in each. I have a branch of my network setup on gigabit, one box has 250 GB of storage on RAID 1 across two 250 GB (this one's for video projects), the other has 160 GB in RAID 0 (my learning system). Works fine and easy as hell to setup. If I need to add storage I can either add some drives or just add another box. I've thought about using GFS, but I don't know enough about it to implement it, yet. Anyone here currently using GFS?

An IRC conversation with CowboyNeal... (-1, Offtopic)

James A. S. Joyce (784805) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616573)

This is real. I know that I can't prove that, but you'll just have to trust that this isn't faked. Log file opened at: 01/17/2004 5:30:42 AM [5:00:00] ***: You have joined the channel [5:00:15] ***: You are now known as CaptBDick [... some irrelevant lines cut out ...] [5:07:13] AverageMan: I love the united states of america! [5:07:20] AverageMan: NOT!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [5:07:55] ***: AverageMan is now known as AbdullaH [5:08:00] djspides: god who are these people :CowboyNeal: so if someone get's modded down enough times, they cant post above -1 even fi they improve their karma? [... ASCII art and irrelevant lines cut out ...] [5:25:27] CowboyNeal: hey, I hate malda just as much as you guys. If it weren't for him making me work saturdays, I'd be with my gf right now. [... ASCII art cut out ...] [5:25:39] CowboyNeal: yes [... ASCII art cut out ...] [5:25:44] tirel: CowboyNeal: is she fat? [5:25:46] CowboyNeal: stupid, I know, but that's the way it is [5:25:51] CaptBDick: ->CowboyNeal: heh, i never knew that [5:25:51] tirel: hElLo , sri ! xM NAME IS ABdullSH IHrAm MohAMMad bI5n ZuLar KroJAr TEhROHaM Kumr , I am A TErrorOSt . nY FaTHWR WAs On the FiRsT PLANE thaT cRaSHEd in thr woLrD TARDe ceNTEr . i GEz A bOnER everY TIME xNn plays thAR TApe . if YoU wISh tp hELP me nI NY quEst FiR WoR...D slaVEry , plaese pURchaSe A kAlaShNIkoV aT YouR NeARrST KAsAshNikOv StoRe [5:25:54] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: have yuo seen this troll yet? [5:25:56] Newcomer: HELLO! My name is Abdullah Kumr. I AM A TERRORIST. I WANT TO KILL ALL AMERICANS!! My father was on the plane that crashed in to the first building on 9/11, and I am very proud of him. Support Usama Bin Laden NOW!! Help me KILL ALL AMERICANS!!!!! [5:25:58] tirel: heLlo ,, sir ! mY Bame IS5 AbDullah IhRAm moHAmmAD Bin zuLAr kRokAr teHrOHAm kUMR ,, I AM a TeRrORIsT . MY fAThER waS On tHE FIrsT plAN08E T1Ha [5:25:59] Newcomer: It's very popular! [5:26:05] Newcomer: tirel's is an adaptation [5:26:06] tirel: HeLLO ,08 sIr ! mY NamE IS A0bdULLAH IhrAm MoHaMmAd biN zuLaR KrOKaR teHrOham kUMR , I Am a TErROriSt .0 my faTHER EaA on tEh fIR6ST pLaNw Tgs5T CrasHes in thE WOrLD zaRfe Center . I geT s BOnER rveRY tIME CnN PkaY0s thaT tAPE . OF yOu WSIh tO [5:26:07] CaptBDick: ->CowboyNeal: that does seem sort of unfair to me [5:26:09] CowboyNeal: well she's no model, but she's still pretty hot [5:26:11] timecop: Cowboyneels girlfriend, is it good or is it whack? [5:26:29] Newcomer: #caoine. What's it all about? [5:26:29] CowboyNeal: me too, honestly [5:26:36] CowboyNeal: but, not my site, just my job [5:26:39] RandomGuy: SO WHO IS THIS ROB MALDA GUY? [5:27:00] timecop: interesting. [5:27:08] timecop: so what ARE you doing at "work" on saturday? [5:27:26] timecop: writing more hsitcode? [5:27:31] CowboyNeal: posting stories [5:27:38] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: I have a serious question for you. [5:27:42] timecop: CAN SOMEOME PLEASE FOR FUCKS SAKE REWRITE SLASHSHITCODE TO USE PROPER HTML AND CDSS [5:27:44] timecop: er CSS [5:27:46] Newcomer: Why do you have a webcam? [5:27:52] Newcomer: Notice: CowboyNeal: One of the most revealing statements a passive racist can make is that "Some of his best friends" are of a certain ethnicity.You are a fat disgusting fucker. [5:27:54] CowboyNeal: I don't, really [5:28:01] CaptBDick: ->CowboyNeal: also, i was wondering, i wanted to try to implement slash on a site of mine. is the lameness filter open? [5:28:03] CowboyNeal: it's just an iSight I take stills with [5:28:21] CaptBDick: i have an isight too [5:28:29] tirel: you guys are gay [5:28:29] CaptBDick: it takes everything backwards [5:28:31] CaptBDick: have you noticed that? [5:28:38] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: You are a fat disgusting fucker. This is not conducive to having a webcam. [5:28:48] Newcomer: It does not follow logic. [5:28:56] Newcomer: I am seriously trying to figure this out. [5:28:59] timecop: CaptBDick: next time, try removing it out of your ass and turning it right side up [5:29:07] tirel: CowboyNeal: why don't you people rewrite slashcode in xhtml/css ? [5:29:10] CaptBDick: roffles [5:29:12] CowboyNeal: yup, well, for $5 a month the clothes can come off and you can understand it all [5:29:15] tirel: it can't possibly be that hard [5:29:29] timecop: WHY DOES LITE MODE STILL USE TABLES [5:29:34] CowboyNeal: tirel: because malda doesn't see the use in it [5:29:38] CowboyNeal: and he's the boss [5:29:43] timecop: WHERE IS MALDA [5:29:48] CaptBDick: xhtml/css would save a lot of bandwidth... [5:29:49] timecop: GET HIS FAT ASS IN HERE [5:29:50] tirel: MALDA MUST DIE [5:29:55] Newcomer: I say we string Malda up [5:30:02] Newcomer: You in, cowboyneal? [5:30:05] tirel: haha [5:30:20] Newcomer: MAILING THIS LOG TO YOUR BOSS LOL!!!!!!!! [5:30:20] Newcomer: MAILING THIS LOG TO YOUR BOSS LOL!!!!!!!! [5:30:20] tarosic: JUST GO TO A DIFFERENT FUCKING SITE YOU COCKS [5:30:20] Newcomer: MAILING THIS LOG TO YOUR BOSS LOL!!!!!!!! [5:30:20] Newcomer: MAILING THIS LOG TO YOUR BOSS LOL!!!!!!!! [5:30:41] Newcomer: TAROSIC: LET THE GROWNUPS TALK [5:30:58] djspides: CowboyNeal: By the way, saw Aesop Rock, Mr. Lif, Fakts One and Afrika Bambaataa yesterday :) [5:31:01] CowboyNeal: yeah, mail it to him [5:31:02] tirel: does Rob have a job? [5:31:06] tirel: beside slashdot.. [5:31:09] CowboyNeal: but then I'm done talking [5:31:20] Newcomer: FUCKING FINALLY! [5:32:13] Newcomer: [05:51] floodmt is still "PENDING" on freshmeat [5:32:14] Newcomer: [05:51] :( [5:32:15] Newcomer: [05:52] freshmeat is MovableType?! [5:32:16] Newcomer: [05:52] or are you adapting? [5:32:17] Newcomer: [05:52] ? [5:32:18] Newcomer: [05:52] oh, i see, its an article for it [5:32:19] Newcomer: [05:52] hehe [5:32:20] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: What do you think of FloodMT? [5:32:23] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: What do you think of FloodMT? [5:32:38] tirel: it's certainly better code than slashcode [5:33:12] ***: fiend_138 has quit IRC (Quit: fiend_138) [5:33:20] CowboyNeal: I think it's about the same, since it brings those who use and are used by it the same amount of joy, but in reverse [5:33:51] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: If you are trying to sound intellectual, you are failing. Just put it in coherent terms. [5:34:21] tirel: hey if i patch slashcode to use xhtml/css would rob commit it? [5:34:34] CowboyNeal: he might [5:34:39] CowboyNeal: it can use that stuff now [5:34:45] CowboyNeal: all the html is in templates [5:34:53] Newcomer: haha tirel you should do it! [5:34:54] ***: fiend_138 (~fiend_138@CPE0080c6f02913-CM014160000761.cpe.net .cable.rogers.com) has joined the channel [5:35:01] CowboyNeal: the templates just need to be rewritten to use css [5:35:03] Newcomer: the trolls infiltrating slashdot [5:35:22] ***: kyogre has voiced fiend_138 [5:35:23] tirel: trolls make slashdot [5:35:29] Newcomer: yeah [5:35:35] CowboyNeal: it could happen. dudes that trolled us 2-3 years ago now work with us [5:35:41] CaptBDick: haha [5:35:43] CaptBDick: seriously? [5:35:50] tirel: CowboyNeal: that sounds boring, i thought there'd be some perl coding to do [5:36:01] CaptBDick: i guess that means in 2007, the GNAA will be osdn employees [5:36:01] CowboyNeal: tirel: yes, it is boring [5:36:15] Newcomer: never [5:36:31] Newcomer: but GNAA will own the domain [5:36:33] CowboyNeal: like I got to translate slash1 html to slash2 templates. mind numbingly awfully boring [5:36:44] Newcomer: it will be a redirect to lastmeasure [5:36:46] CowboyNeal: if osdn is still around in 2007 [5:37:04] CowboyNeal: they are really good at not making money yet somehow staying in business [5:37:25] Newcomer: CowboyNeal: http://www.nero-online.org/lastmeasure [5:37:40] tirel: CowboyNeal: don't click! [5:37:51] Newcomer: please click that, even though it is shock material... I want to have the honor of saying I lastmeasured cowboyneal [5:37:58] CaptBDick: haha [5:38:08] CaptBDick: CowboyNeal plz go to goatse.cx [5:38:18] CowboyNeal: is it still closed down? [5:38:19] tarosic: goatse.cx is gone [5:38:22] CaptBDick: they have a mirror [5:38:42] CaptBDick: i think taking it down is bad [5:39:09] tarosic: i think it's interesting, it just shows the impermanence of the internet [5:39:24] CaptBDick: yeah [5:39:26] tirel: who said you could talk? [5:39:26] CaptBDick: thats true [5:39:35] tirel: tarosic: plz stfu [5:39:48] Newcomer: Hear Hear! [5:40:11] CowboyNeal: man I sure am gonna miss stuff like this when I go back to school [5:40:12] CaptBDick: ive got a mate, named rainbow jeremey who reject everything to do with science [5:40:17] CaptBDick: he aint even got a tele [5:40:19] CaptBDick: i aint shittin you [5:40:21] ***: Newcomer is now known as RobMalda [5:40:35] RobMalda: Hello everybody! [5:40:38] tarosic: when does school start for you, neal? [5:40:42] tirel: CowboyNeal: can you make sf.net unban my ip? [5:40:49] RobMalda: CowboyNeal sent me here! He said he was under attack by GAY NIGGERS????????? [5:40:52] CowboyNeal: it doesn't, yet [5:41:01] CaptBDick: this is GNAA handiwork! [5:41:05] CowboyNeal: I've been playing with the idea of going to grad school for cs though [5:41:12] RobMalda: Well RobMalda doesn't take shit and neither do his employees [5:41:16] RobMalda: I'm going to fuck you all up [5:41:22] tarosic: sounds like a good idea [5:41:23] CowboyNeal: I was gonna go after college but instead got on the internet gravy train [5:41:42] CowboyNeal: and now with my work experience there's no grad school that would turn me down [5:41:55] RobMalda: And then I'll kill CowboyNeal as well because I'm a crazy fuck like Keyser Soze. [5:41:58] tarosic: that's true [5:41:59] tirel: "slashdot editor" [5:42:07] RobMalda: That's right you'll all eat my special taco soon enough. [5:42:19] tarosic: so does that mean you'll be leaving NYC? [5:42:32] ***: emma is chud@pitpat.hanford.org (your mom) [5:42:32] ***: on channels: @#caoine [5:42:32] ***: on irc via server irc.eris.net (FNoRD?) [5:42:32] ***: emma is an IRC Operator - Server Administrator [5:42:32] ***: emma has been idle 661 minutes [5:42:41] CowboyNeal: I go out drinking in ann arbor, I run into communications profs who want me to come teach their classes, and I've never even had a communications class [5:42:54] tirel: hey neal whats with the "you can't post to this page" message i sometimes get on slashdot? [5:42:57] CowboyNeal: school is easy, which is why I need to be there [5:43:18] RobMalda: Notice: CowboyNeal: WHO THE FUCK ASKED FOR YOUR LIFE STORY [5:43:32] CowboyNeal: oh that means the IP address you are coming from is set to read-only [5:44:08] tirel: hm [5:44:10] CowboyNeal: cannot post comments, or optionally cannot submit stories as well [5:44:15] CaptBDick: somebody should put that in the FAQ [5:44:22] ***: RobMalda has left the channel [5:44:24] CaptBDick: because ive wondered about that myself [5:44:24] CowboyNeal: I think it is [5:44:28] CaptBDick: oh [5:44:28] CaptBDick: hehe [5:44:29] CowboyNeal: it was at one point [5:44:34] CowboyNeal: maybe it got removed [5:44:40] CowboyNeal: I don't maintain the faq anymore [5:45:46] CowboyNeal: I'm trying to decide how to get my saturdays off [5:45:50] CowboyNeal: either not do anything [5:45:52] tirel: slashdot should have better documentation, as it is i have to go browse cvs to find out details about certain things [5:45:54] CowboyNeal: or do it really shitty [5:45:59] tirel: which sucks since the code is painful to read [5:46:29] CaptBDick: i tried the work-badly idea at my job [5:46:32] CaptBDick: they ended up cutting my hours [5:46:34] CaptBDick: more so than i had hoped [5:46:48] ***: Havoc (HaVoC@cliente-217217086048.uBRjaa01.supercable.es ) has joined the channel [5:46:54] ***: kyogre has voiced Havoc [5:46:58] CaptBDick: and intern pay is bad enough [5:47:57] tirel: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=93131&cid=8002 742 [5:48:01] tirel: why is this +1 funny [5:48:09] CaptBDick: ha [5:48:35] tirel: i, as a bsd user, am utterly offended [5:48:44] tirel: i'm even considering leaving slashdot forever [5:49:08] CowboyNeal: if you're really a bsd user, I wouldn't even bother with slashdot [5:49:14] CowboyNeal: the bsd coverage is pretty slim [5:49:55] tirel: it's not that bad [5:50:19] CaptBDick: i've never had mod points, but i have excellent karma, and a 30000 series uid [5:50:20] CaptBDick: whats with that? [5:50:30] CaptBDick: ur, 300k [5:50:58] CowboyNeal: I bet you're low on tokens somehow [5:51:09] CaptBDick: well, i made my account a couple of years ago [5:51:14] CaptBDick: then about a year ago i forgoti even had one [5:51:16] CaptBDick: then logged in [5:51:17] CowboyNeal: that's the only way to not get modpoints, since the rtbl got removed [5:51:38] CaptBDick: so my account had zero activity for a long time [5:51:40] CaptBDick: is that part of it? [5:51:52] tirel: hm my karma is positive again, guess it's time for some reposts [5:51:53] tirel: :( [5:52:00] CowboyNeal: yeah, I dunno the whole system since I didn't write it [5:52:20] timecop: so, back to the original question [5:52:29] timecop: how long will i keep posting at -1 from my account [5:52:34] CowboyNeal: but someone found the moderator rtbl in the code and went apeshit, so it got taken out and replaced with a new rtbl on the sly, because we're assholes [5:52:57] CowboyNeal: I dunno why we couldn't just say "look, there's an rtbl" [5:53:10] CaptBDick: is the lameness filter open? [5:53:14] CaptBDick: or do you guys keep that to yourself? [5:53:18] timecop: oh [5:53:21] timecop: i have a serious question [5:53:25] CowboyNeal: it's all part of the pseudo-democracy front for the dictatorship [5:53:29] timecop: are MIRRA stories on slashdot paid advertisements? [5:53:37] CowboyNeal: the filter code is open, but the filters themselves are not [5:53:50] CowboyNeal: no slashdot story is a paid ad that I know of [5:54:02] timecop: ok. next question [5:54:04] CowboyNeal: we plug a lot of stuff, but usually it's just because we like it [5:54:08] timecop: why were all those stories about demise of goatse.cx rejected? [5:54:13] djspides: t cowboyneal like my comic! [5:54:45] timecop: s/comic/cock [5:54:51] timecop: btw am I the only one who doesnt like userfriendly? [5:55:00] djspides: no, userfriendly sucks [5:55:11] CowboyNeal: no, while illiad is a nice guy, uf sucks, and ufies suck even more [5:55:21] djspides: he's a good businessman [5:55:29] djspides: who has no artistic talent [5:55:37] djspides: and manages to earn a lot of money out of very, very niche humour [5:55:53] djspides: respect++ [5:55:59] CaptBDick: massiv respect [5:56:03] timecop: indeed [5:56:31] timecop: according to a latest market survey, lunix users are less than 1% of the entire computer-using group [5:56:38] timecop: thats one hell of a niche market [5:56:47] CaptBDick: oh yeah [5:56:53] CaptBDick: i read that too [5:57:07] timecop: for 2 fucking years, lunix never moved up even one fucking percent [5:57:11] timecop: that is absolutely amazing [5:57:54] CaptBDick: i think the GNAA had a post about that [5:58:01] CaptBDick: im suprised it didnt get modded up as informative [5:58:36] tirel: this channel seems pretty liberal [5:58:42] tirel: maybe we should relocate here? [5:58:45] timecop: michael probably modded it down while gripping his tiny dick furiously msaturbating while reading groklaw [5:59:52] timecop: when will my "-1 post" issue be solved? [5:59:56] timecop: do I need to open a bugtracker ticket? [6:00:54] CowboyNeal: yes [6:01:31] timecop: I would like it resolved within this year. with slashdot bugtracking system, which keeps ignoring bugs from 2 years ago, this is probably not acceptable. [6:01:51] CowboyNeal: it's not the system so much as the developers [6:02:04] CowboyNeal: like I ignore bugs that are gonna take a lot of work to fix [6:02:07] timecop: why does my posting at -1 have anything to do with developers [6:03:28] djspides: tirel: as soon as an op wakes up you'd last about 5 minutes [6:03:39] djspides: because you are speaking [6:03:45] timecop: djspides: if I wanted you gone, you could have been gone an hour ago [6:03:46] ***: emma has set the channel mode to ÒmoderatedÓ [6:03:47] ***: kyogre has removed the ÒmoderatedÓ channel mode [6:03:49] CowboyNeal: word, and pokemon is gonna be on soon, which means [6:03:51] CowboyNeal: ha ha! [6:03:53] timecop: djspides: if I wanted you gone, you could have been gone an hour ago [6:03:54] djspides: GOOD MORNING EMMA [6:03:54] ***: emma has deopped kyogre [6:03:54] CaptBDick: tirel hasnt said anything in 9 minutes [6:03:55] ***: emma has set the channel mode to ÒmoderatedÓ [6:03:55] ***: #caoine Cannot send to channel [6:04:13] ***: emma has opped tarosic [6:04:13] ***: emma has opped mel [6:04:13] ***: emma has opped toastydeath [6:04:13] ***: emma has opped mike|afk [6:04:13] ***: emma has opped IWIK [6:04:19] emma: or rather [6:04:24] ***: emma has deopped tarosic [6:04:24] ***: emma has deopped mel [6:04:24] ***: emma has deopped toastydeath [6:04:24] ***: emma has deopped mike|afk [6:04:24] ***: emma has deopped IWIK [6:04:25] ***: emma has been kicked off the channel by chris (De-op flood (3 de-ops in 0secs of 30secs)) [6:04:25] ***: emma (chud@pitpat.hanford.org) has joined the channel [6:04:26] djspides: ahahaha [6:04:29] ***: irc.eris.net has opped emma [6:04:31] CaptBDick: haha [6:04:31] ***: #caoine Cannot send to channel [6:04:37] ***: emma has voiced tarosic [6:04:37] ***: emma has voiced mel [6:04:37] ***: emma has voiced toastydeath [6:04:37] ***: emma has voiced mike|afk [6:04:37] ***: emma has voiced IWIK [6:05:04] emma: i need my fucking coffee [6:05:25] emma: i just woke up with a cat on my face [6:05:30] CowboyNeal: yum [6:06:24] ***: emma has opped kyogre [6:06:25] ***: kyogre has removed the ÒmoderatedÓ channel mode [6:06:29] ***: emma has set the channel mode to ÒmoderatedÓ [6:06:35] emma: that's better [6:06:59] CaptBDick: test [6:07:00] ***: #caoine Cannot send to channel

compression (2, Informative)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616575)

First off, if you aren't already compressing that data, start. You may be able to cut the size down dramatically using compression.

Then backup using tapes just like every other place that has to do backups. Generally do full backups once a week and incremental ones nightly or whatever is necessary based on the data you are working with.

spongedrive is best (5, Funny)

cubyrop (647235) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616580)

i am responsible for providing storage solutions for a mid-sized content creation company which, through version archiving, accumulates near 1-200 GB per day. they require access to their media backups on a rolling basis, so tapes are not an option.

i have found that a Teutonium cluster of 6.5 TB Spongedrives (either Cray or SecreTech are fine) fits the bill nicely. housed in a 15-unit rack server, the amoeba-shaped drives utilize BioLas technology to store data on 6-dimensional Moebius Cilia for a slick seek time of 0.00 ms.

a cluster costs about $45,000 USD but the price should come down in 2004 Q4 when SecreTech launches their new 40-platter blackholium SCSI's.

Re:spongedrive is best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616701)

Any mod who rises to the bait should be shot.

Drawbacks, what are you willing to put up with? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616581)

All forms of media/backups have their own drawbacks... but some aren't as bad as others, and the others often are more accessable.

Tape: Tapes break, they wear, they have dropouts, take a while to back everything up, can't always access files if you just want to restore something (Different methods vary, folks)... but ultimately, it's cheap when you use DAT because they're a common media. Swap the tapes twice as often (and throw old ones out) if you're paranoid about tape related failures.

Hard Drive: Most common form of backup I see now, mainly for the 1:1 size factor. Yeah, drives fail, too. Sometimes you have a pretty good warning when this is going to happen, sometimes you don't. (My 13GB Maxtor and 40GB IBM Deathstar drives both went *pfft* on reboot.) Get enough of them at once, you could swap out the logic boards if one does fry out. Ultimately, RAID or just simple 1:1 mirroring is probably the most efficient and easy method. Accessing bits and pieces is also easiest under this method. I personally just use an external USB2 case with a 120GB drive in it. Everything I want to back up goes on that drive, and then eventually... DVDRs. I turn off the drive when I don't need it... hopefully prolonging the life of it when I need it most.

DVDR: Not anymore. If we had these new-fangled DVDR discs (+ or -) say... when 2 to 6GB drives were common.... sure... But in addition to hard drives, recovering selective files is easy under this method too... Unless you use a backup program that crunches everything together on the disc in some spanning format. Burn times can be tedious... but it's not bad if you consider the overall amount of data you're putting on the disc. Cheaper than quality-brand name CDRs, though, in terms of price per mega/gigabyte. Only an idiot would trust $0.01-per-disc spindles for long-term backups. Even the longevity of DVDR has yet to be seen...

CDR: I'm not going to bother.

Network: Well, still relies on hard drives and other components... but good if you don't want to saddle one room with a ton of boxes. Simply for space and efficiency... external drive is probably better anyway.

Old fashioned method: Print everything out and keep it in a filing cabinet somewhere. You could always OCRA the stuff later. ;-)

Idiot Moderator (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616584)

What kind of idiot moderator is handling this article/item - giving Scores of "1" to reasonable suggestions and "2" for stupid/funny ideas like someones posting about his drawer full of floppies that he's willing to sell???

LTO Ultrium 2 Tape Drive (4, Informative)

jeffgeno (737363) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616587)

The drive will run about $4000, but the tapes are only around $0.20/GB assuming a 1.5:1 compression ratio. And keeping that assumption, 1 TB of data should only take 3 200 GB native tapes per month, so swapping wouldn't be so bad with the single tape drive. An autoloading library would be significantly more expensive, but if you really need automation, that's the way to go.

The "Common Man" doesn't need bulk data storage... (2, Insightful)

syberanarchy (683968) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616589)

The best idea I could give you is to just create a sister system, where you mirror all your data. Not cheap, but cheaper than getting a pro-grade solution.

The reason you won't find such things on the cheap is because the average person with a PC doesn't even know what a GB is. He simply goes into the store, the sly salesman says "oh, what do you need it for," and then says "well 60-80 gb should be all you ever need."

Now, contrast that to me - my friends shit when they hear I have a 250 gb drive and a 120 gb drive, as well as an extra 60 gb on a networked machine. They can't fathom ever needing that much space. I know that's probably a pittance by Slashdot standards, but it's true :(

Theft / Physical Damage etc. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616594)

The age old problem I've had with RAID is that:

- If the machine gets stolen, there's no backup.
- If the RAID controller shits out and takes a couple of drives with it (uncommon, but has happened), there's no backup.
- If there is a physical disaster and the machines spontaneously combust then their is no backup.

I don't know if there is a cheap solution for what you want...

If anything I would say plugging in hop swap drives just to backup in to your machines, and then take them offsite when the backup is done, as well as RAID if you can afford it....

Duplication Tower (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616597)

I believe that it would be worth the money to invest in a duplication tower at this point, the ones with the mechanized arms, preferably one you could hook up to your computer.

Why not tape drives? (2, Insightful)

Silent8ob (638046) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616599)

Look at what the rest of the corporate world uses for large scale storage management. It is still ruled by Tape drives.

I don't know how much an eye goes for at the moment, but if you can spring for a Super DLT drive you'll get up 320GB (Compressed) for each tape.

It all comes down to the Quality:Cost:Time triangle.

Easy (4, Funny)

Pedrito (94783) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616609)

I use bioneural gel packs at a cost of $0.04 per teraquad. What is this hard drive of which you speak?

What you want, for price. (1)

Crasoum (618885) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616611)

Well it isn't going to happen, you -HAVE- to drop change for what you want, as a back-up solution. There really isn't any way around that.
There are many plausible suggestions though that won't break the bank totally. One of course is raid as has been mentioned and will be a few times I imagine. But you may also wish to look into hot swappable solutions.
USB 1.1/2.0, Firewire and SATA are all relatively cheap storage solutions if you shop around (Pricewatch [pricewatch.com] is a good place if you are willing.). You can convert IDE drives to USB with an IDE>USB box, and buy a few decent 200 gig hard drive for around $120~$150.
Another could be buy a SATA card and some SATA drive and plug them into the front of your case, SATA 2.0 is hot swappable and the hard drive prices have come down into a decent range.

Now another solution is buy used SCSI, and raid those together, reliable fast and not overly expensive if you don't want 15k RPM.

Another idea is buy another box, place a few hard drives in it, and use that box as your back up, but it's a hassle more so then the rest, but as a plus you can place it somewhere else as an offsite backup and all you have to do is plug it in and your work is ready to go (from the place you most recently backed up.)

With incremental back-ups it may not be too bad.

Then again you are moving terabytes.

One word... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616613)


Paper.

Of course... (1)

etnoy (664495) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616615)

I was wondering, if Slashdot readers have any recommendations for a cheap automated way to store and retrieve data.

Remember the data in your brain, that is much cheaper than buying disks IMO.

P2P Backup (0, Redundant)

billstr78 (535271) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616616)

That's easy. Name your files "Hot Lesbian 4-some[0000-1024].mpg" and make it available to the P2P sharing community. Every horny male in the country will then help to download and distribute your data across the country and when you want file number 5 back, just search for Hot Lesbian 4-some0005.mpg and bingo, 10 available good copys ready for re-use. ..

Tape (1)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616625)

Buy a tape drive.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, but a tape changer, so you don't have to change the tapes.

Hijack Cassini (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616635)

... and program it as a repeater.

It's about 90 minutes away, so at 250 Kbps that's over one terabit in storage on the way out there, and another terabit on the way back.

Worst-case access latency is about three hours, though. Maybe the hard disks are a better idea.

If you send your probe^H^H^H^H^H repeater to Alpha Centauri, you'll get more than 20,000 times the storage capacity.

i know you know the smart ass (1)

nazsco (695026) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616636)

backups? I upload to an ftp server and let the world mirror it for me

Use those HDDs! (2, Interesting)

jsm008us (774007) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616643)

You can get cheap computers from the trash, donations, bulk, etc. You can use that cluster to mirror your data once or twice. I don't know what data you have, but if you have the same data on more than 1 different hard drive, you can be rest assured it will be fine. Or you can just print it all!

The stockmarket is backed up to three (or more?) seperate locations. Look into NVRAM (e.g. flash media) or a cluster with all those hard drives linked together, with a constant backup. With the builtin IDE controller on most motherboards, you can hook up to 4 Hard Disk Drives. If you add SATA, RAID, SCSI, and IDE, you can have lots of hardrives on one machine!

You could also rotate hard drives, so they arent constantly used (making the whole system last a LOT longer!) or replace the drives that are about to fail (which would be at least in 3 years!). Most Hard Drives could probably handle 5 to 10 years no prob (maybe even 20 if they are rotated!).

It all depends on what you have and what you want to do!

Storage solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616645)

Compaq's StorageWorks SSL2020 AIT library is a single or dual drive library that offers 2 terabytes (2:1 compression) of storage in a 4U tabletop or rack configuration. Library modules can be stacked five high for up to 10 terabytes of storage within a 20U space. The SSL2020 is qualified with Windows NT and Windows 2000, NetWare, Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Compaq ProLiant and Alpha-Server product lines.

http://www.aittape.com/

Do what Google does (5, Insightful)

glinden (56181) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616654)

Build yourself a cluster [computer.org] of cheap boxes with cheap IDE disks and replicate your data across them. Because the data is replicated across your cluster, no need for backups or RAID.

Vital information left out (3, Insightful)

dfghjk (711126) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616656)

How many months at 1TB/month do you require access to online? After you are done with data can you discard it or do you need it archived? What is the cost of losing your data set at any given time? In what manner do you expect to access it (read/write mixture and sizes plus aggregate throughput and number of client connections). The answers to these questions could cause the cost of a solution to vary but a couple orders of magnitude.

options options, what is your time and data worth? (5, Insightful)

segfaultcoredump (226031) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616660)

Lets see.... hard Drives are running about $0.50 per GB, DVD's are running about $0.06 per GB (100 pack, "house brand", not something I'd put my data on but this is slashdot, and there are idiots out there who think that it is a good idea), and tapes are also running about $0.20 -> 0.50 per GB (for the DLT/AIT/LTO type, the ones that have enough capacity to not drive you nuts)

So, you can put your data on 4-5 HD's, 10 tapes or 232 DVD's per month. The Cost of doing so will be about $500 per month for the tapes or HD's and $50 for the DVD's (assuming your time cost $0)

At work, we had a need to keep a few TB of data online permanently, so we purchased a few NexSAN [nexsan.com] ATABeast's. At $50,000 for 10TB of usable storage ($5/GB), they may be a bit out of your price range. The advantage is that you can hold almost a years worth of data and it is protected by RAID5. It also makes management a lot easier, since it is very difficult to mount 42 300G drives in a single chassis (and it takes only 4U of rack space).

On the low end, NexSAN has the ATABoy2 or ATABaby (2TB or 1TB) for the $8-$15K range. This will let you hold a months worth of data

On the high end, You have EMC disk arrays (Think upwards or $20+/GB for the 'cheap' stuff from them.

Overall, if you have 1TB per month, you need to either a) get a grant to fund your work, b) hire somebody to swap DVD's for you or b) seriously rethink your data generation.

Any of the "cheap" storage methods have serious drawbacks, and the low cost ones are, well, not so low cost if $15,000 sounds like a lot of money to you.

otherwise, good luck

If its volume you want (5, Informative)

TheUncleBob (791234) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616663)

If you are more interested in volume than speed, then the emphasis should be on the 'ID' part of RAID. Inexpensive Disks. If you used 160GB Drives, which appear to have the best bang for your buck at the moment, and put 6 (yes 6!) in a pc. Just use any old cheap pc (I use 200-400Mhz PII)

Run the disks RAID 5 and you will get about 800GB of storage for $600 . Now get two cheap ata100 cards so you have a total of 6 channels, and mount each drive as a master on each channel. Build a 2gb root partition on the first disk (mirror it if you want) and then set the rest of the space up as a huge raid 5 array.

Et Voila cheap, big server. To archive data, turn off pc, and throw into attic :-)

my solution (1)

stonetemple (97639) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616666)

- Several 80-gig drives
- 1 removable IDE hard drive enclosure
- 1 fireproof safe, preferably bolted to the ground or kept off-site (for the particularly paranoid)

Bulk storage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616670)

Compaq's StorageWorks SSL2020 AIT library is a single or dual drive library that offers 2 terabytes (2:1 compression) of storage in a 4U tabletop or rack configuration. Library modules can be stacked five high for up to 10 terabytes of storage within a 20U space. The SSL2020 is qualified with Windows NT and Windows 2000, NetWare, Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Compaq ProLiant and Alpha-Server product lines.

http://www.aittape.com/hewlett-packard.html

Network Appliance (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9616673)

No I don't work for them, but I work with their H/W & their support is second to none. You can get a recon'd R100 for reasonable money. New, they cost ~$100k for 12TB.

They aren't File servers, as they aren't designed for lots of clients. But they are perfect for storing a 'live' backup of data ! They can the Technology Nearstore, its designed to sit between your File servers & your Tape backups

CD Changer (2, Interesting)

andrebsd (685491) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616677)

Well, I have a cd changer for computers made by NSM... It's scsi (comes with a 2x reader origionaly) so all you gotta do is find a scsi dvd burner (or a long enough ide cable and convert it, since the motors are all powered by a com port anyway) and replace thd drive, (or like in my case, a cd-rw - had the drive for a while, so at the time a dvd burner would have cost to much) then you have 100 dvd's you can burn data to automatically, and when those are full just swap them out for new ones.

Now the problem is, you can only get 430gig's out of one changer using single layer dvd's... Double would bring you to 970gig's per changer.

Assuming you can get the unit for 100 bucks or so, and the dvd drive costing 100 (69 bucks at frys).. Then you have a 200 dollar backup unit that can store 430gigs of information onto dvd's

All depends on retension... (1)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616685)

What are you retension requirements for this data? 2 months? 1 year? Forever? How often do you need to access this backed up data?

If you requirements are rare restores, then I'd go with tape. You can back up to a tape drive about as fast as a ATA disk and you can move the tapes offsite. Restores w/tape are a bit more painful, but then a tape isn't as delicate as a disk drive.

DLT is the way to go (3, Informative)

pastpolls (585509) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616696)

I actually use a DLT with autoloader I got off ebay for under $200. I then bought a lot of used DLT tapes (100) and use them to backup my Video and DVD projects. It is great because when I fill my offline storage (about 1TB) I just fire up the backup software and get the old DLT going overnight. It is done by morning and the shelf life for those tapes is about 20 years.

Ultrium (3, Informative)

7vEn_T_7vEn (794241) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616698)

I'm not sure what your budget is but if your like me you want something that complies to standards so it will be around, is cheap and effective. For this I would have to recommend an Ultrium tape backup drive. The drive is standards based (google it) and the tapes are dirt cheap a 200/400 gb tape pulls up for $55. If you figure (hardware compression) 250gb of storage per tape then it will cost just $.22/gigabyte. The problem is that the drive itself is listing for about $2600, not exactly cheap but it's guaranteed to be backwards compatible with future lto standards and the media is as cheap as you could possible ask for. One more thought, look into an LTO Gen 1 solution (100/200) for a cheap drive, cost per gigabyte is roughly the same, it will just take more swapping.

suck my cock until i'm dry. (0, Troll)

coolgabe (729004) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616699)

that will get your data safe. either you know how to protect data or you don't. jesus fucking christ. please.

Consider Online Backup (2, Interesting)

jp10558 (748604) | more than 9 years ago | (#9616708)

One company that provides massive online backup and storage at reasonable prices is Streamload [streamload.com]. You might want to check them out.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...