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Fedora Core 2: Making it Work

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the sad-that-you-need-a-tutorial-for-this dept.

Red Hat Software 220

Joe Barr writes "Linux.com is running a followup article by Ken Barber to his initial review of Fedora 2. This time he explains how to tame the GNOME and Fedora 2 problems he noted the first time around and get them both in working shape.."

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220 comments

EAT SHIT SL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620601)

dsf

BEST BUY ATE MY BALLS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620780)

I have posted here before about store 107. I had quit BB and wanted to blow off some steam. I just wanted to say how mych Best buy can change a person. I remember I was about 19 when i started BB. I was so inspired to work hard that I even worked on My birthday. I thought it would show the managers that I was dedicated. WRONG I WAS. They didn't give a damn i worked on my B-Day. I didn't even get a thanks for coming in. Anyway, working at that placed changed my life alot. It changed my life so much that I dont even listen to rap anymore. How did that happen you ask? Well I was doing one of those BS overnighters. I did it for a whole week. 12 am - 8 am. I thought i would get some kind of recognition. But no I did not. The only thing that got me through "one of the hardest week's of my life" was one of my local adult comtemporary radio stations. That is the only station I listen to now. It made me pick up some habits too. Not that having a beer is bad but after realizing that i was working for nothing at best buy i started drinking beer and mike's hard lemonade everynight after work. It's a funny situation but hey I was stressed. Hell, me and some of my best buy buddies were talking and one had even taken up cigarettes and the guys only 16. I worked my ass off there man. The only thing I learned from best buy was that when selling, leave your emotions at the door. Now at my current job, I get commission and an hourly. And my god I am loving it. I have a Nice ass apartment, a fine ass girlfriend, and I just bought myself a brand new maxima. I even got my girlfriend hired where I work but at another location. Life is good outside the big, gayass blue box. Life is damn good. But I will still be purchasing my plasma TV from there. I can afford one now. Brothers and sisters at best buy I just want to let you know that I once were you, and I am you in a sense cuz i have felt your pain.

Install Debian (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620616)

In my experience, the best way to get FC2 to work is to delete it and install Debian. It is quite possibly the buggiest distro I have tried this side of a Mandrake .0 release.

Very Cool (4, Insightful)

XeRXeS-TCN (788834) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620624)

That is the best way to do things imo. Don't just complain about the problems that you encounter, like it's some sort of major flaw in the system, which discourages people from adopting it. Instead, work through your problems, and let people know that there are ways around the issues that you encountered. Every system has problems, but it is reassuring to people to know that many/most/all can be fixed, and that there are resources available to help.

Kudos to Ken Barber for writing this follow-up.

Re:Very Cool (4, Insightful)

mccalli (323026) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620670)

Instead, work through your problems, and let people know that there are ways around the issues that you encountered.

Most particularly, make sure you let the maintainers of the relevant package know your problems and also the solution if you found one. That way, the next iteration of the system might well have these problems sorted.

I've been taking that approach in a number of projects I submit feedback to, not all of them open source, and it seems to work well.

Cheers,
Ian

Very uncool: slashdot's editors (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620706)

Ever notice the "beat the rush and see it early" link at the top of slashdot when a new story is about to come out?

Sounds good, doesn't it? To be able to view the pages linked to in the article before the tens of thousands of other slashbots click to view them.

Did it ever occur to you that you're taking part in cyber-terrorism?

That's right: Slashdot's editors are cyber-terrorists. They coordinate a DOS against small websites, and they attempt to collect moeny from people who wish to be spared the effects of said DOS. Terrorism, plain and simple.

You can fight this and other crimes by slashdot's editors by joining anti-slash [anti-slash.org]. Anti-slash is committed to forcing the editors to own up to their numerous crimes against the geek community. Until our demands are met, we will relentlessly discredit them as a news service through trolling and other means.

Also, props to poopbot and the alan thicke troll. We remember your accomplishments.

In sacred jihad,

jihadi_31337

| _ __ | |
_) |_|_)__/_| |
(_) o

Re:Very Cool (1)

linsys (793123) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620844)

I totally agree.

I know that if it wasn't for people posting simple things like "You need xmms-mp3" in FC2 I would have never guessed that on my own...

Since we are the open source community (well most of us) it does NO good to just complain about a problem , if there is a bug report it, if an app needs some crazy setup let the community know..

Another problem I see is that people will encounter a problem complain about it for weeks on a newgroup, mailing list etc... fix it and NEVER post what the solution was for other users...

This is a great article covering some of the main "FEATURES" we will call them of FC2..

Re:Very Cool (4, Interesting)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621148)

Don't just complain about the problems that you encounter, like it's some sort of major flaw in the system, which discourages people from adopting it.

But if the "default" install is messed up to the point where someone's going to have to boot back to Windows to get to the Internet to dig through numerous Google searches to just have to boot back to FC to start working on basic issues, isn't the adoption of "Linux" already blown? If the people that work on Fedora are "expecting" Joe Sixpack to use it, but the person can't even play an mp3 without "yum xmms-mp3" (not that that is hard, but how would Joe Sixpack even know how to do that without booting back to Windows and running a bunch of searches)?

I propose your logic is 100% backwards. Yes, it's REALLY DAMN NICE that the info is "out there", but should someone have to resort to digging through all that just to get their machine simply working when 90 bucks at the local Target later, they have a operational XP system? (assuming that they had a blank machine, of course, which they most likley did not)

ECFA AND GNAA ARE CONNECTING INTO ONE E4AA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620629)

The ECFA (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) and the GNAA (G** N***** Association of America) are connecting into one E4AA. Stay connected. The only association dedicated to Euthanasia, Eradication, Extermination, and Erasing of dogs. Both the ECFA (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) and the GNAA share one common goal - A HAPPIER MANKIND! Members of the combined group, which will be called E4AA (Euthanasia, Eradication, Extermination, and Erasing for canus familourous Association of America), will not be required to change their skin color or practice homosexuality as previously required to be members of an EVIL ORGANIZATION. The motto of the combined ECFA will be to protect our oxygen supply, to clean up our streets and sidewalks, and to curb noise pollution. The combined organization will be headed by the current leader of the ECFA and will be headquartered on EFNET. Employees of the GNAA will be able to apply for new jobs at the combined E4AA (Euthanasia, Eradication, Extermination, and Erasing for canus familourous Association of America) headquarters. We will be taking all existing GNAA content OFFLINE FOREVER on "ECF-day", when the two organizations will be merged into one. "We are expanding to target a much larger demographic, not just the homosexual and colored population," the CEO of ECFA's (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) parent company was quoted as saying. While the GNAA trollers will continue, their message will be changed. The chatroom, movie, and illicit images will not be a part of the new organization, as it doesn't fit the new demographic.

About GNAA:
The GNAA has a vast membership of slashdot trollers who claim to have dark complexion and have a perverted sexual lifestyle. By harnessing the powers of the GNAA, the ECFA will be able to spread its message throughout slashdot much more effectively.

Are you G**, Are you a N*****, Are you a G** N*****? If you answered "yes" or "no" to any of the above questions, the combined organization is for you!

About ECFA:
The ECFA (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) would like you to do one thing - KILL A DOG. By KILLING A DOG, you will ELIMINATE one USELESSLY RESPIRATING animal from this planet. Are you TIRED of having your TAXES increased? Humane Societies cost our country over $100 million annually. By eliminating DOGS, this money can EDUCATE OUR KIDS. OVERPOPULATION of DOGS is RAPANT in this country. Take a stand! Help rid this INFESTATION. KILL A DOG TODAY!!!!

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Are you MAD? [apa.org]

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If you answered "YES" to any of the above questions the ECFA (Euthenasia for Canus Familourous Association) is for you! Why change your sexual lifestyle or change your skin color to join an EVIL ORGANIZATION when you can simply INCREASE OUR SUPPLY OF O2! Did you know that DOGS turn BENEFICIAL O2 into CO2 simply to gain their energy to bark, drool, and howl? They LITERALLY BURN OUR OXYGEN SUPPLY!!! One dog can waste 2 moles of O2 PER HOUR! This country has MANY UNWANTED, ABANDONED DOGS that WE ARE PAYING MONEY TO KEEP ALIVE. We are FEEDING them our food supply while making the homeless STARVE! By using a Dog Killing Gadget, a dog can be turned into beneficial food, helping us all. We let children go hungry yet feed our **UNWANTED** dogs like royalty.

Save Our Oxygen! One dog can easily use the entire oxygen output of ten full size trees. One dog can output over 20 lbs of droppings daily. One dog can aggrivate the allergies of untold numbers of people with its fast growing hair. Kill a dog today!

Do you own a dog? Are you tired of its mess? Don't feel like planting ten trees and waiting 10 years for them to reach maturity? Then get it euthanized. Euthanasia is a painless way for a dog to... terminate. However, it can be too expensive to buy these drugs for the LARGE NUMBER of DOGS in the HUMANE SOCIETIES. It is thus proposed that these dogs be turned into food for the homeless.

We are connected with the GNAA to form one organization, called E4AA!

WANT TO JOIN THE ECFA? You can either get a First Post! on slashdot (a popular news for trolls website) or create a new movie for membering new recruits.

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==This post brought to you by proud dog killers PickaBu, MadDogKilla, and ECFAGuy on EFNET.

5 GMail Invites (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620635)

I've just recieved 5 GMail invites that I'd like to give away. If you'd like one, please reply, leaving your unobfuscated email address. I don't have the time to try to decode them.

Re:5 GMail Invites (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620721)

ulluh uckbuh!

Getting it to work? (4, Insightful)

blanks (108019) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620672)

"This time he explains how to tame the GNOME and Fedora 2 problems he noted the first time around and get them both in working shape"

Am I the only person who dosen't want to "get them working" and just want them to work out of the box?

for fedora developers (1)

millahtime (710421) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620688)

Am I the only person who dosen't want to "get them working" and just want them to work out of the box?

maybe the best way is for the fedora developers to take nhote of this and fix it. he is even telling them how.

Re:Getting it to work? (1)

nwbvt (768631) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620890)

It does seem like that would be the expectation for a distro billed to be easy for newbies.

is it really for newbies? (5, Informative)

zogger (617870) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621075)

I more think of fedora as a distro more for advanced or intermediate hobbyists than for newbies. It's close to being ready out of the box for joe everybody, but not quite there yet, and even then, if they follow their roadmap, will always have testing/unstable aspects to it, done on purpose. It's for people who don't mind and want to be beta testers, people in the linux enthusiast community. It's supposed to be one step ahead of the official redhat "stable" version, and even the redhat stable version is just now being touted officially as suitable for a corporate desktop with professional IT admins on staff, not for the home user, not yet anyway. I use fedora, and I know I'll have to tweak some stuff when I get it and install it. It's still pretty dang good though, I haven't run into any show stoppers yet with it,any that really concern me anyway, and I'd consider myself only barely above newbie status, especially on the command line and being able to diagnose and repair/modify things. Media playback for all the formats gives me the most grief. Fixing the MP3 "problem" was easy, geting other propietary media formats to work cleanly is another issue entirely. I don't have a lot of USB or wireless, etc, so I can't comment there.

Re:is it really for newbies? (1)

nwbvt (768631) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621134)

Maybe not, but if you ask someone for a good entry-level distro they will most likely respond with something along the lines of Mandrake or Red Had/Fedora. Maybe we should find a new desktop to recommend.

Re:Getting it to work? (4, Informative)

thenextpresident (559469) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620910)

Yeah, but it's not as easy as you think. Heck, even Microsoft can't do this with Windows. About the only company that does this is Apple.

Re:Getting it to work? (4, Insightful)

FlyGirl (11285) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621124)

About the only company that does this is Apple

Yeah, but to be fair, it's comparitivly easy to get software to work out of the box when you pretty much control all the hardware as well.

Not to say that that isn't a valid business plan, just wanted to be sure we're not attacking the fedora people compared to the apple people for failing to succeed at what is clearly a more difficult job.

Re:Getting it to work? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621335)

That used to be MS argument about Windows flaws. "We don't control the hardware". Well, how about Pocket PC? MS controls the hardware spec and their software still sucks!

Re:Getting it to work? (1)

next1 (742094) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620916)

Am I the only person who dosen't want to "get them working" and just want them to work out of the box?

understandable, and no i'm sure you're not.

but really, if you find these problems with fedora then the answer (at least for mean time) is simply to install a different distro instead.

i very much doubt you would have any significant issues installing mandrake 10 community/official for example.

Re:Getting it to work? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620934)

Notice, that "getting it working" primarily were about selecting his preferences instead of the system preferences. KDE instead of Gnome, "Windows explorer"-mode instead of spatial.

In this sense, Windows doesn't "work out of the box" for me either. It needs just as much selecting my preferences instead of the system ones as any Linux system does. Like changing the stupid explorer.exe to open new windows when I double-click on an icon, instead of overwriting the current one. Like changing the colors, damn I hate that blue screen.

Re:Getting it to work? (1)

next1 (742094) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621001)

that's very true as well.

sure it doesn't take you long to install a new system, but i'm usually tweaking things for days/weeks after a fresh install.

Relativity (4, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620680)

I liked this part:
Getting FC2 to a state of usability in a home or office environment requires a great deal more labor than I believe should be required. However, my complaints were put into perspective last week when I visited a classroom to start getting it ready for summer term. I walked in on a cursing, overworked desktop support tech who was griping loudly about the inordinate time it takes to install and patch Windows on a roomful of computers -- in an organization that will not pay for disk imaging software or an in-house Windows Update server. "You don't need Microsoft Office installed on these, I hope?" he asked through a fog of sweat and frustration. I acknowledged that I did not. Then he wanted to know if I needed HP printer drivers installed, with a cynical groan about how it would "only take a few more hours." I used to supervise people who support Windows on the desktop. I had forgotten how bad Windows really is. Suddenly my gripes about Fedora seemed petty

Absoluteness (0, Redundant)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620809)

"X is good because Y is no better" is really not much of an argument. People should really stop using it and create absolutes instead, which are good no matter how bad or good the competition happens to be.

Re:Absoluteness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620959)

All software sucks. All hardware sucks. All OSes suck. The only relevent questions are "How much does this product suck?" and "Does it suck more or less than this other product?"

In this instance, Fedora Core 2 sucks but it sucks less than Windows.

Re:Relativity (2, Insightful)

transient (232842) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620834)

in an organization that will not pay for disk imaging software or an in-house Windows Update server

His complaints should be directed at this organization, not Windows. Switching operating systems will not fix their support tech's apparent inability to present a cogent argument to his budget people.

Re:Relativity (1)

blane.bramble (133160) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621070)

His complaints should be directed at this organization, not Windows. Switching operating systems will not fix their support tech's apparent inability to present a cogent argument to his budget people.

Except many companies would much rather their tech support go around in circles doing repetitive boring tasks (hey, they already pay your salary, right?) then spend money on something that is not seen as strictly necessary (it only saves the tech supports time, after all...). That's if you even have a seperate budget for IT, there are still many places that don't and so ALL expenditure needs individual justication.

Re:Relativity (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621302)

I'm thinking that a Linux boot disk + 'dd' + a CDRW drive would do wonders for their tech support problems. Of course, it only helps if they have one or two types of computers. If all the computers are different, then I'd suggest they start looking at some of Microsoft's (yuck) Zero Install tools.

The problem being? (4, Insightful)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620686)

So....If I understand the article right, to make Fedora Core 2 good, you need to install packages, change some gettings for gnome, and adjust the sound properties? If you use Linux, you have to expect that you'll need to add programs, and change settings, just the same as windows.

Re:The problem being? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620790)

You don't just change the setting for gnome, you delete it. Then you use KDE. And all is well ever after.

GNOME supporters should get a clue from the fact that its lead is now a Microsoft shill, helping to spread .Net through Open Source means.

Re:The problem being? (5, Interesting)

moorg (537751) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620889)

So....If I understand the article right, to make Fedora Core 2 good, you need to install packages, change some gettings for gnome, and adjust the sound properties?

As long you don't quit on the spatial mode Nautilus as quickly as the author you don't need to make any changes.

Personally, I always rearrange the GNOME panels from the default Red Hat/Fedora layout to the default GNOME layout (Applications, System menu on the top panel). But that's my preference, and certainly not something I should shake a stick at the Red Hat/Fedora guys.

Perhaps the author would enjoy reading The Spatial Way [bytebot.net] then debate the merits rather than pull a "my desktop doesn't look they way it used it, it must be broke".

wow, quite a statement (5, Funny)

BigGerman (541312) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620687)

" the best way to mitigate the myriad problems in GNOME 2.6 is to include KDE in your install"
Article with a built-in troll!

Re:wow, quite a statement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620719)

Well, KDE should be a temporary solution. Gnome is much cleaner. KDE is for ricers.

Re:wow, quite a statement (0)

chegosaurus (98703) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620740)

It's not a troll if it's true. Is it?

I just don't get GNOME these days. Every release seems to be slower, buggier and with less features than the one before. I don't know how deep Sun's involvement is, but it segfaults so much on Solaris that a less charitable person might call it unusable. KDE, on the other hand, is rock solid.

What happened to you GNOME? YOU USED TO BE COOL!

Re:wow, quite a statement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621216)

It's not a troll if it's true. Is it?

It might be true with FC2, but I've not had any problems with Slackware 10 having Gnome and KDE loaded simultaneously.

I just don't get GNOME these days. Every release seems to be slower, buggier and with less features than the one before. I don't know how deep Sun's involvement is, but it segfaults so much on Solaris that a less charitable person might call it unusable. KDE, on the other hand, is rock solid.

It really makes you wonder about the quality of the port. I've had no problems on the Intel side of the house so far. As far as execution speed goes, Gnome 2.6 has not been a problem, but I admittedly have a monster of a box on which to run it.

For the most part it seems as though one must be EITHER a KDE person or a Gnome person. Personally KDE drives me nuts, and the only reason I keep any of it on my drive is that I love k3b and its DVD writer support. To each their own.

Re:wow, quite a statement (4, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620768)

Indeed, but I'm starting to see the wisdom in this. Keeping KDE around is good for the user, but it's also good for Gnome. KDE came first, and from day one has always pushed Gnome to BE and to BE BETTER.

I like Gnome a lot, but I really hope KDE sticks around for the forseeable future.

Re:wow, quite a statement (5, Insightful)

YankeeInExile (577704) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620777)

I think it was a pretty low-level barb at the GNOME community from someone who prefers the "other" religion. And his quote, "I find myself far more productive in KDE than in GNOME these days." makes me think that he might actually move back and forth between the two camps based on the current feature-to-wart ratio.

Neither GNOME nor KDE are perfect. You pick the featureset that coincides with your personal philosophy or needs or free help-desk fount.

For years, when Unix newbies asked me, "What should I run, *BSD, or Linux, or ... " I would always answer the same: "Find a nearby knowledgable friend, and run what s/he is running. The ability to get advice from someone who has done it is orders of magnitude more significant than the fine details of OS internals.

Re:wow, quite a statement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620782)

Not just that, but he bitches about changing the default desktop.

How hard exactly is "switchdesk kde".

I mean I was a 1st time Redhat/Fedora user (coming from mandrake) and I found that in under 30 seconds using man -k.

Re:wow, quite a statement (4, Informative)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620836)

No, that is not a troll. If you want to have an easy to use Linux system, then with Fedora, you have to select the 'Install Everything' option. With Mandrake, you have to select all available desktop managers and games, network client and network server options.

The reason for that, is that you then get all the libraries on your machine, making future installs much easier.

It is also important that you plug everything you got into the machine before you begin. If you want USB support, then you have to plug some USB device in before you start the installation.

All of that is pretty obvious to old hands...

Re:wow, quite a statement (4, Informative)

pyros (61399) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621213)

Wow, you're totally wrong. All three available systems (system-config-packages, yum, and apt) resolve dependencies, so installing 'Everything' just to make sure you have all the libs you might need is complete overkill and a waste of space. If you can't convince yourself, then you could just manually select every lib, and leave out all the stuff you don't need on a home desktop (like all the rwho, rdate, rdist, rsh, rlogin, ypbind, NFS server, etc). If you don't have any Qt/KDE libs installed, and use any of the three mentioned installation systems, you could just, for example, run `apt-get install quanta` and it will install all the Qt/KDE libs for you.

Regarding the "plug everything in first" command, I haven't seen that hold true in a while. I haven't had anything connected to the USB bus on my laptops the last few times I've installed RH/FC, and plugging in a USB mouse later on always works (in fact I can hotplug it and have both the external mouse and the touchpad working simultaneously, with full wheel support and everything). Plugging in a PCMCIA WiFi NIC always seems to cause boot problems after the install because it tries to bring it up but it can't because the PCMCIA stuff hasn't been loaded yet. What difference do you think it would make anyway? The installer uses Kudzu for hardware detection, which is what is used every time the computer boots (unless you manually disable the service, in which case it's your own fault that hardware detection doesn't work after install).

Fedora Core 2: Making it Work (-1, Flamebait)

swagr (244747) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620694)

To play on an older joke:

1. reformat.
2. install Debian.

Ah, the sweet smell of a flamewar in the making (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620708)

If you intend to work in the GNOME environment I have some suggestions to mitigate some of its problems. You will need the gconf-editor package to do this, so if you're installing GNOME (I do, just in case some of its libraries are needed) be sure to include that package. You can also save yourself some time by installing nedit, in the Applications/Editors package group, as an alternative to gedit. But frankly, the best way to mitigate the myriad problems in GNOME 2.6 is to include KDE in your install, and make it the default environment at your first opportunity to do so. I find myself far more productive in KDE than in GNOME these days. It is wise to install KDE before creating any non-root users, in order to get KDE's goodies onto their default desktops.

I agree with him, but I have the feeling others will not.

Let the flames begin.

*Sitsbackandopensbeercan*

Up2date (2, Informative)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620717)

FC2's up2date utility is vastly improved from prior versions, and no extra configuration is required to begin using it.

Well he's right about one thing. Up2date dosen't need any extra configuration as it does not in fact work, at all. It just connects and crashes. Bad Newbie!! It's back to the command prompt for you!

Re:Up2date (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620841)

ehehe I also noticed the gui updater crashes *every* time.... just use apt and/or yum like a normal person

Re:Up2date (1)

pyros (61399) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621307)

Did either of you search bugzilla.redhat.com or file bug reports? The up2date tools work quite well for quite a large number of people.

Re:Up2date (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621300)

run up2date from the command line. Whenever you see the "throbbing icon" switch to an exclamation point from a check mark, go to a console, su to root, type up2date -u then mash enter then go about your business,. it works great then. I agree the graphical version sucketh, but the cli version works perfectly fine. For new stuff, I added some repositories to my apt sources, use synaptic front end to check them out every few days,pick out whatever new and shiny I might want, then go back to command line to run apt as well. And I do NOT know why the gui versions are buggy, but they are, but the cli version always work on my old coal burner box and dial up connection. I just last night tried out the GUI front end for yum from cobind based on a link I saw on another thread, it's still sitting here with a blank window that is unreadable. it apparently started downloading stuff I picked last night, but it won't display to tell me what really happened, it's doing the same thing that up2date gui used to do to me, just not finish rendering it's window. So, back to cli for me with yum.

GNOME / KDE flamewar (4, Informative)

scarolan (644274) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620723)

Not to start a Gnome / KDE flamewar here but we have twelve users on linux workstations and they all do just fine in the custom Gnome environment provided with FC2. They all came from using Windows and there was not a steep learning curve at all. I personally find the nautilus spacial browsing really annoying though, and even moreso that the only way to turn it off is to dig way down in the gconf editor.

Re:GNOME / KDE flamewar (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620826)

Wow, big props to GNOME for that - it's just like Windows, eh? Gosh I'm just desparate to switch now...

Fucking Stallman... if he ever had an original idea the shock would probably kill him. Even back when 2400 baud was a luxury he was copying others, stealing their ideas and "making them free" (distributing work-alikes without permission).

On the topic of out of the box (3, Insightful)

emo boy (586277) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620732)

I would like a partition manager built-in like Mandrake and Suse. Is that too much to ask?

Re:On the topic of out of the box (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620805)

Yes because Fedora is unsupportable crap, plain and simple. If you want a distro that works use RHEL or one of the others like Mandrake or SuSE. Fedora is for ex-RedHat Desktop users living in denial that RedHat took their desktop out behind the barn and put a bullet in it's noggin.

awesome timing (4, Interesting)

BitchAss (146906) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620734)

I literally *just* finished installing FC2 on my lappy. I'm running 'apt-get dist-upgrade' right now :)

I'm pretty happy for the most part - it's more responsive than FC1 - the menus are very snappy. I'm having a weird problem - none of my mail clients will check an IMAP account - weird, non?

broadband arrogance... (3, Funny)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620840)

> I'm running 'apt-get dist-upgrade' right now :)

I wish people would stop gloating over their broadband connections...

Re:broadband arrogance... (1)

BitchAss (146906) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620863)

Hey - I'm at work. I'm moving into dial-up country in 3 weeks.

Re:broadband arrogance... (1)

falkryn (715775) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621097)

that's funny. Like I mentioned in another post, I just finished installing on my home box about an hour ago or so. Like you however, I'm doing it at work. My 56k dialup just can't compete with what they have here.

(in case your not using it, check out dag wieer's apt repository, very nice, and it cross links with others such as freshrpms.)

Unimpressed by Fedora 2 (1, Interesting)

suso (153703) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620742)

I was rather unimpressed with Fedora and felt justified in my switch to Gentoo when encountering this horrible bug [redhat.com] with fedora and parted upon installing it on my wife's machine. The first time I've ever had Linux futz up a Windows installation. How could they be so careless.

Re:Unimpressed by Fedora 2 (2, Informative)

falkryn (715775) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620813)

And here's the fix:

http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/

Not mentioned here also might be setting your drives in BIOS to use LBA, instead of Auto, which rather makes sense anyhow.

After having SUSE 9.1 miff up my windows partition for me (yet another reason to sour that distro in my taste), installing Fedora Core 2, just a few minutes ago, no problems here. that is, in combination with following the steps above.

Re:Unimpressed by Fedora 2 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621047)

Seems a bit of a troll to me, but there other similiar compliants for other problems...

That issue is not isolated to FC2, other distros with kernel 2.6 have also suffered from that problem. (Comment #27 in your link shows this)

FC2 cops so much crap, most likely because it is most people's first look at a 2.6 kernel distro.
(And an early version at that)

IMHO the jump from FC1 to FC2 was too big, for the amount of testing that happened. You can't expect to make large changes _and_ have an accelerated testing schedule.

Re:Unimpressed by Fedora 2 (1)

suso (153703) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621093)

Maybe it was a problem with other distros, but people testing Fedora before releasing it should have done the dual boot and windows test. Since most people using Fedora and RedHat distros are running a dual boot machine.

There comes a time when distrobution makers have to realize that they are partly responsible for the image (perceivance of quality) of OSS to the public.

That dual boot problem (1)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621076)

I was about to install FC2 when I read about that. I can't lose my Windoze installation. I also never could figure out if it's a problem when installing FC2 on a second drive as opposed to a second partition on hda. I also got the impression this will affect all distros once they upgrade to the latest kernel.

Kerry chooses Edwards to be his VP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620753)

Just heard that Kerry has chosen Edwards to be his running mate/future vice president.

Bush hasn't a hope. The Republicans haven't a hope.

quote of the article (4, Funny)

next1 (742094) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620760)

And with all of the work, it's still a lot less annoying than keeping a Windows system running

classic.

Re:quote of the article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620922)

What's tough about 'keeping a Windows system running'?

Not trolling, just curious. I've had XP installed for six months with no problems... not one crash come to think of it. No virus attacks or the like - I regularly check Windows Update.

neat (5, Informative)

falkryn (715775) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620776)

Nifty timing, since I just finished installing Core 2 on my box a few minutes ago. Not much in the article that informed me as such though.

I seem to notice an emerging pattern with Fedora releases though. RCs, avoid them all, they won't work properly, unless you really do want to do bug testing (not a bad thing). Final releases, avoid them too, at least for about a month or so. Let the updates filter in, and then you should be good. Plus, that gives a good amount of time for the 3rd party apt/yum repositories to starting filling up, which they seem to be doing rather nicely lately (though of course not on a par with debian, but good none the less).

Fedora 2 - Slow DNS problem (5, Informative)

fforw (116415) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620818)

After installing Fedora Core 2 I had the problem that DNS queries out of Mozilla e.g. were rather slow (several seconds) while
nslookup www.google.de
seemed to work okay.

the solution to this problem was that FC2 enables IPv6 by default which led to the noticable delay. After adding:

alias net-pf-10 off
to /etc/modprobe.conf to switch off IPv6 everything was fine.

Re:Fedora 2 - Slow DNS problem (1)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620873)

Sounds like a dns server problem, IPv6 shouldn't make lookups slower. You should probably also stop using nslookup.

Re:Fedora 2 - Slow DNS problem (1)

fforw (116415) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621020)

Sounds like a dns server problem, IPv6 shouldn't make lookups slower. You should probably also stop using nslookup.
I don't think it's my provider's DNS server (I tried different DNS servers ). I suspect my cheap DSL router to be the cause. ( I only used nslookup for testing purposes. )

Re:Fedora 2 - Slow DNS problem (1)

hey (83763) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620970)

I am not sure IPv6 can explain show DNS but for nearly everyone disabling it is a reasonable idea.
At least until your ISP gives you a IPv6 option. It just makes sense to disable stuff that isn't needed - saves memory, simplifies, better security, etc.

Re:Fedora 2 - Slow DNS problem (5, Informative)

molarmass192 (608071) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620994)

FYI SuSE 9.1 users, ipv6 is also enabled by default. Follow the parent poster's recs if you want to disable it.

KDE advocacy (4, Informative)

Alioth (221270) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620821)

I note how he says 'switch to KDE'. Since RedHat 8's 'Bluecurve', I've always preferred KDE - the 'Bluecurve' theme seemed to work really well with it (and at the time, KDE had some vital features that Gnome didn't - for example, it gave you feedback when an application was launching: I tried my Dad with the default RH 8.0 Gnome install and he'd double-click large apps a dozen times and get many instances because Gnome didn't have the little application loading feedback that KDE has).

I don't know whether Gnome still lacks this UI feedback, but if it does I'm not surprised that little touches like that made the article writer use KDE instead. And of course, Konqueror is an excellent browser.

Re:KDE advocacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620911)

Gnome still has this problem with launch feedback. I think apps that adhere to the freedesktop.org specifications give you feedback, the problem is, that most apps don't. Btw., the truely amazing thing is that even some apps that come with gnome don't.

Though there may be a right way to do it and I can understand the reasoning behind wanting all apps to do it the right way, I still think that gnome should give lauch feedback for all apps, as this is obviously possible, as kde shows. And for Christs Sake, even xfcec4 has it.

Re:KDE advocacy (1)

Telex4 (265980) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620981)

Well, yes, I think it's nice that both GNOME and KDE have got to the point where now the only reason one can give for a choice one way or the other is going to be along the lines of "it feels nicer" or "I prefer the icons" or "it has this one minor feature I really like".

Having played with GNOME on a fresh Debian set-up over the past week, I still prefer KDE, though only because I prefer the feel of it, and I've got my KIOSlaves working nicely for working on remote systems.

Re:KDE advocacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621131)

GNOME has it as of 2.2 I think (but I could be wrong on the version number).

Installing FC2 (2, Interesting)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620839)

One day, I was drooling over the screenshots of Bluecurve from Fedora Core 2 and finally decided to install it. After using Mandrake 10.0 (and currently SuSE 9.1), it seems I still can't get used to the extremely fragmented set of config tools that come with GNOME and the system.

I swear, there's three different menus synonymous with "preferences". Not that you could reorganize the menu to make more sense to you, it won't let you change it. I hope the system-config tools adopt a layout such as YaST and hope GNOME gets their act together and come up with some kind of control center application to replace the fifty bajillion different small config tools.

It's nice to see that the NVIDIA drivers are 4kstacks compatible. When I installed FC2, I had to use some custom kernel RPM from Joe Blow that used 8k stacks. ...I couldn't adjust tone controls on my emu10k1 sound card...

I think the straw that broke the camel's back in making me get rid of FC2 was that it powered both my hard drives off when doing a warm reboot, which basically means the disks spin down, the computer restarts and the disks spin right back up again. I couldn't find a single entry on a Google search on the topic. I even mucked through the rc scripts myself.

At least it looked good....

What _is_ the Fedora Core? (1)

BlindSpy (772849) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620843)

What is the Fedora Core made up of? I'm a Gentoo user and I'm trying to understand what is involved in other distro's and what would make it not work with Gnome.

VMware client (1, Informative)

Burb (620144) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620851)

I'm not overly impressed by FC2, if only because I tried to install it as a VMWare 3.2 client operating system, and WMWare completely died. So naturally I'm blaming FC2 :)
However if anyone has a fix for this....?

Re:VMware client (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620913)

Its not specific to FC2 its a kernel 2.6 problem.

I've version 4.0 and while it runs, it does so in stop motion. There is a newer version of vmware available for download that fixes this issue.

Re:VMware client (3, Informative)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620983)

Yes, 2.6 is very slow under VMWare (even in version 4.5), but the problem I ran into trying to run it was that FC2 selected a 16 bit color depth by default when VMWare won't accept anything but what matches the host desktop, which in my case was 24 bit (even if you're using 32 bit color). After editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf to make it run in 24 bit color, it started right up, as did the purty boot screen which also uses the same settings.

MP3 support (3, Interesting)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620856)

I understand the reasons they do it, I respect the reasons they do it -- but in all honesty, I think it's a pretty silly idea to make users jump through hoops so they can listen to their MP3's.

We complain about Microsoft bundling stuff within Windows -- but it's got to the point where a user expects a certain number of applications to come with the Operating System and I would consider MP3 support to be one of them.

Sure, I know it's a no-brainer to install it afterwards but if Fedora's goal is to encourage mass market adoption, then they should consider that an individuals first impression counts - even more so when something they take for granted isn't there from the beginning.

Re:MP3 support (3, Insightful)

Extrema Type (173543) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620929)

If I am not mistaken, OGG support is default on installation. RedHat isn't afrait of the RIIA, only of the MP3 patent holders.

Re:MP3 support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621293)

If I am not mistaken, OGG support is default on installation.

Which is useful if you're one of the 0.01% of the population that use OGG.

Re:MP3 support (1)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621074)

Red Hat 8.0 was the very first time I used Linux, and the fact that they didn't even preconfigure XMMS to play back MP3s left a bad impression. However, I was a Google search away from fixing the problem.

Of course, SuSE (my current Linux OS) has its own issues. Its video playback is crippled for some reason and I was only able to get xine to play more than just MPEGs through some third party xinelib package I found. CSS decoding is also not there, but I haven't bothered with that yet. I watch DVDs on an actual player appliance.

Ill give you another problem (2, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620865)

... how about Fdora Core 2's boot disk image is 6MB... how the HELL am I going to fit that on a floppy?

I bet I pulled in a few "Floppy's are useless" goers... I have a couple of PPro machines that neither have USB or can boot from a cdrom. Thanks.

Re:Ill give you another problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9621106)

Boot from a floppy with a CD driver on it?

MOD parent up! (1)

alex_tibbles (754541) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621187)

netbook/pxe? good point tho. Windows 2000's boot disk is larger than a floppy and spans several. Perhaps you could figure out a way of spanning across 4 disks?

Scanner troubles in FC2 (1)

Jeedo (624414) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620868)

One thing that was very annoying for me in FC2 was getting the sane scanner interface working. I eventually found out that the interface for my type of scanner (canon iirc) was the only driver commented out in the autoload of a list of about 15-20 drivers being loaded. I discovered this by pure chance and it's these kind of things that made the system not work out-of-the-box on numerous occations.

Article is a troll; move on. (1)

mapnjd (92353) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620897)

What an awful article "Here's how I installed KDE on Fedora Core 2 (Duh) and a couple of other things".

I'm using Fedora Core 2 on three machines with GNOME and I can't see the problem. Sure Mandrake 10 has a nicer GNOME menu structure, but that's it - it has no other improvements over FC2.

I'm using a few extra repositories but I don't write an article on linux.com about it. (I just googled for other people's less egotistal and more useful advice). Because it is a piece of cake.

There is nothing of any use or interest in this article and to state that the author "had to do a lot of work" is ridiculous: what was it half an hour or an hour?

tubgir/7 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9620971)

PaRts of you are in any way related Metadiscu5sions We'll be able to EULOGIES TO BSD'S

Desktop readyness? (4, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620975)

More like, how to get FC2 to the state this particular individual prefers it. Certainly some of the stuff in there is little more than personal taste and is definitely not a reflection on Fedora or Gnome.

I quite like spatial mode, for instance. I actually use graphical file managers now. Before with non-spatial Nautilus and Konqueror, I thought they were cute but never actually used them. The command line was far faster.

review? what review? (5, Insightful)

doktorstop (725614) | more than 9 years ago | (#9620998)

First and foremost, I am totally in favour of review, comparisons or anything that gives an insight into the different distros, compares them of just plain discusses them. With this said, does any half-page with a couple of screenshots deserves to be called a "review" and being widely advertized on Slashdot? Dont's think so. The author took the time to install FC" (great!), had a couple of problems (dont we all), did not even test anything else than Gnome and made this into an article? Now give me a break! Mentionning NVidia drivers was nice... a couple of allegetly missing programs - great! And ... that is all? I teach 7,8 and 9 grade students... any of them could write something like that, and to be fair, they wouldnt get more than "good" for this. For an article in LinuxMagasine.. this is a disgrace. "This time he explains how to tame the GNOME and Fedora 2 problems he noted the first time around and get them both in working shape.." (from Slashdot)... where are the explanations? Ask ten "Joe SixPacks" to install FC2 and run it for half-a-day.. you will get a noce combination of non professional users opinions... summarise the discussion going on on FC2 newsgroups.. you will get a long list of problems, complains and solutions.. but, for God's sake, don't just post a page of non-interesting, plain stupid "experiences" and call this a review! "

system bell problems (3, Interesting)

pomakis (323200) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621065)

I upgraded to Fedora Core 2 just yesterday (from Core 1), and encountered and resolved some of the known problems (such as IPV6 being enabled by default, etc.). However, there's another problem that I haven't managed to resolve yet. My system bell no longer works. If anybody else has encountered this and knows the solution, please let me know! I'd appreciate it very much. FYI, I'm using fvwm as a window manager, so KDE-specific solutions such as "Control Panel --> Sounds --> ..." are useless to me.

(Oh, and "xset q" shows "bell percent: 50 bell pitch: 400 bell duration: 100", so that's not the problem)

Re:system bell problems (2, Informative)

Queuetue (156269) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621114)

Add "pcspkr" to /etc/modules.conf. It's a2.6 thing, not necessarily a fedora one - the pc speaker is now a loadable module.

I have one beef with big distros these days (3, Insightful)

zaqattack911 (532040) | more than 9 years ago | (#9621291)

It would be really nice if all of these 5cd linux distros agreed to make sure a "minimum" but useful install can be had if one were to only download the first bootable CD.

I'm not interested in downloading every single linux app that was ever conceived. Christ... look at knoppix! Pretty much has everything I need, on one CD. If I were to install linux for the purpose of being a production server, i'd be sure to download and compile everything from source anyways.

Love,
Zaq
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