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On Gay Themes In Videogames

simoniker posted more than 9 years ago | from the de-lovely dept.

Games 164

shadowcabbit writes "Gamespot's most recent GameSpotting covered a wide range of topics, but probably one of the most intriguing among them is the examination of homosexual themes in video games. The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?', but oddly focuses on male homosexual relationships, claiming them to be a way to entice female players; and mentions that while the main purveyors of homosexual content in games are Japanese companies like Squaresoft and NEC (who made the infamous Chou Aniki series), U.S. producers are starting to slip in some risque content, citing Temple of Elemental Evil's 'gay pirate' Bertram, and Will Wright's The Sims not balking at same-sex couples adopting a child character." We've previously covered another article on a similar subject.

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164 comments

who ... cares.... (4, Insightful)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678644)

More than movies or TV, games are about being fun. So while you might see an otherwise unejoyable tv miniseries get acclaimed for discussing some kind of social issue like pedophilia or AIDS, you are not going to find a game that tries to make a social issue it's theme cause it won't sell.

There is no market for 'artistic' games. Only fun ones.

Re:who ... cares.... (4, Insightful)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679028)

I don't know why this has been modded off topic. You are clearly trying to say that making a "gay" game for the sake of it being a "gay" game is "artistic."

In that sense I agree with you. As with anything else, there is no point in creating entertainment featuring a particular segment of society unless it adds to the entertainment value.

My biggest problem with this whole idea is that unless it is handled properly, I would think that any "gay" game would probably turn out to be one big stereotype reenforcing gay joke.

Honestly, it shouldn't matter if a character is gay or not. Just as it usually doesn't matter if they are straight (I would think Duke Nuken would probably have been a very different game if Duke was gay). Most games don't really have that much sexual content in them anyway.

Re:who ... cares.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679053)

It was modded offtopic because it violates the constraints imposed ny GroupThink.

Re:who ... cares.... (3, Insightful)

spike_gran (219938) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679629)

Have to agree with this one. Games are supposed to be about fun. And since games are expensive to make, it only makes sense that that there is a need to appeal to the widest possible audience.

I think you can draw a distinction between highly scripted games with strong characters and less scripted games with more abstract characters. For the strongly scripted games (FFX), one needs to tell a story that will play to the big audience, which probably means being low on the explicit male homosexual behavior, because it might alienate some of the core audience. But for more abstract games, a sexual preference could be just another option in the avatar customization menu.

Since gays make up a small fraction of the audience, primarily gay-themed games will have a similar market to primarily gay themed movies. They will, by financial necessity, have smaller budgets, smaller scope and smaller development staff. Currently the state of game development tools means that it is still very hard to make a home-grown game (as compared to a home-recorded song or movie). But I think where the tools are mature and development is simple, gay games will pop up.

Re:who ... cares.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9680118)

"But I think where the tools are mature and development is simple, gay games will pop up." ...So to speak...

(tee hee)

Re:who ... cares.... (1)

irc.goatse.cx troll (593289) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679941)

"There is no market for 'artistic' games. Only fun ones."

I have to disagree. Take Shenmue for the Dreamcast. Beautifuly artistic, and I don't regret buying it-- definately got my moneys worth -- but really, it was nothing more than a real life sim. It wasn't anywhere as 'fun' as it was artistic, and yet it was on most peoples must buy lists..

Re:who ... cares.... (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680000)

It was? I don't think I've ever heard of it. I had friends with Dreamcasts too.

Re:who ... cares.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681294)

oh, it definately was
your friends might just be losers

i considered getting a dreamcast just because of the games graphics

Re:who ... cares.... (5, Insightful)

Chasuk (62477) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680452)

A game with "gay" content is not an artistic one (necessarily).

I'm gay. I also happen to be artistic, but that has nothing to do with the type of content that most of my community would like to see.

What would we like to see? Gay-blindness, really. Game mechanics which make no distinction between hetero or homo avatars, and no gay characters who are stereotypes.

Ever heard the joke about the trick-or-treater who dressed as a serial killer? The punchline was that he dressed the same as the everyone else, because serial killers can be anyone.

Gay people can be anyone, and frequently are not whom you would expect.

If I can speak on behalf of the gay community, I would guess that this is our collective wish: to be depicted and treated in games exactly like the hetero majority.

From the main article:

U.S. producers are starting to slip in some risque content,

Gay content is not risque content. See above if you don't get it.

Re:who ... cares.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681383)

i am also gay, and I agree wholeheartedly with your opinions.

People/media try to turn homosexuality into an issue, when I personally believe it to be a "non-issue". It doesnt matter except in the context of my own home, who i am attracted to.

Especially the difference between how lesbians are treated verus how gays are treated in the media in general

HA HA HA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9678646)

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Morrowind (5, Informative)

yoyhed (651244) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678671)

In Morrowind (2002), Crassius Curio, in one instance, demands you give him a kiss for him to give you what you need, and another instance, demands you remove all your clothing (and you actually have to go into your inventory and remove everything you're wearing).

Re:Morrowind (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679020)

That was a dialogue tree for female characters. It turned out to be a bug, as evidenced by some digging around in the resources that turned up an unused dialogue tree that should have been applied for male characters.

That only happens if you are female or you played (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679339)

That only happens if you are female or you played with a patch (or perhaps you had a bug (he didn't ask my male char)) but morrowind was hetero. Meaning females and males had different love interests. Of course since morrowind was designed to be easily patched by users this was quickly altered so that you could do all the love stories regardless of your characters sex.

Wich might suggest that the game playing audience is a lot more ready for this then the game makers or the game reviewers or the game raters.

In morrowind when you where naked you were still in your undies. In a prequel I think when you where naked you really where naked. This was removed to appease goverment regulators in the USofC(ensorship).

Re:That only happens if you are female or you play (1)

Ayaress (662020) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680642)

What version do you happen to be playing? I've had the same thing happen with and without the patches, and eventually went into the editor and changed the dialog myself to fix it (got a bit tired of Uncle Crassius calling me "sweetie pie" every time I did a quest). I don't have the GotY edition, so maybe its fixed in that, but I do have Tribunal, Bloodmoon, and the latests patches, and I've gotten the wrong dialog tree ever since the game came out.

Re:That only happens if you are female or you play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681062)

homophobe

stupid lameness filter

Re:Morrowind (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681241)

Though Deus Ex 2: Invisible War sucked ass, there was one funny moment in it.

You had to get into a penthouse in a classy hotel. The obvious way was to sneak in and "pick" the locks.

The second was was to "pick up" some male ambassador and agree to become his "chamber boy" or something like that; I think there was another layer, like you had to meet his old boyfriend of something. But in the end, you got the key to the apartment.

While it was a chuckle, it was so worthless since breaking into the penthouse was very easy and required little skill / tools.

Rating (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9678680)

The ESRB will have to come up with a new rating for these gay games.

I suggest "RF" for Rampant Faggotry

Any thought on this?

Re:Rating (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679155)

Actually the offical rating has been released:
FAGS: Frequent Ass Grinding Sex

It really wasn't envisioned as a warning. It is more of a selling point to all of you gay slash fucks.

Why? (5, Insightful)

JavaLord (680960) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678689)

The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?',

How about when a game comes out that has a story where the character is gay, and the characters sexuality adds something to the storyline? I'm sure it won't end up being like that, some game developer will do it just to be 'edgy' and it probably will have no bearing on the game whatsoever.

but oddly focuses on male homosexual relationships,

Of course, because they are more shocking/disturb more people.

claiming them to be a way to entice female players;

Not....likely. It's more likely that you can entice male players with female homosexuals.

and mentions that while the main purveyors of homosexual content in games are Japanese companies like Squaresoft and NEC

Of course, because their culture is more open (or depraved, depending on your point of view) when it comes to sex.

and Will Wright's The Sims not balking at same-sex couples adopting a child character."

Why not, it's only someone else they can market the Sims to. Personally I hope when the first "gay" character comes out of the closet it actually has something to do with the storyline of the game, rather than it be just window dressing.

This article is way behind the times. I play CS and all I ever here are people telling each other how gay they are. Maybe that is what all those terrorists and CT's are fighting over. It's all pent up homoerotic sexual frustration.

Re:Why? (5, Informative)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678764)

In an american context you're right, but in Japan, homosexual male relationships do indeed entice female players. Just look at anime and manga geared towards the femenine audience, almost all will have pretty-boy characters, many of them engaged in at the very least flirtatious behavior with other male characters. I agree that's unlikely to draw American females, but in Japan its a proven tactic.

Re:Why? (1)

c (8461) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679500)

It's worth pointing out that homosexual characters and themes abound in North American science fiction literature. Off the top of my head, Jeter's "Bad Voltage" (from early 80's), Scott's "Trouble and Her Friends"... Darn, if I was in my library I know I could read off a dozen or more. If a game developer's been reading sci-fi most of his/her life, gay characters wouldn't be such a strange concept.

Dunno about the marketing folks.

c.

Re:Why? (1)

May Kasahara (606310) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681270)

I agree that's unlikely to draw American females, but in Japan its a proven tactic.

I don't know. There's a pretty strong contingent of American female gamers who are into the bishounen boylove (I can direct you to numerous fansites, fanfics, and whatnot as proof). Probably not as many as there are in Japan, but still a sizable number.

Re:Why? (1)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681305)

well i guarantee you its not as big as Japan. Sizable number is a vague statement. I agree its definitely a non-zero number (I've known a few gals myself who are into it) but I don't think its anywhere near the size of the Japanese contingent, by any metric you can think of.

--% of females age x to y
--% of females who play, or are interested in playing, games
--% of gaming community
--on and on.

Is the community growing? Yes! I've seen it grow a lot in the past 5 years especially -- but I'd still consider it a VERY underground segment of the gaming, anime, and manga communities in the US.

Re:Why? (2, Informative)

rsadelle (719824) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681299)

Ever hear of slash [wikipedia.org]? Slash is to western fandom as yaoi (mentioned in TFA) is to Japanese fandoms, and it's very definitely a woman dominated, woman oriented piece of fandom. Granted, we're a relatively small demographic in the larger scale of things, but that doesn't mean we don't exist. The last slash con I went to even had a panel specifically directed at getting women's ideas of what they want to see in mainstream gay porn.

Re:Why? (1)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681324)

I have heard of it. I never meant to characterize the US population as zero, but only to point out that as a marketing component, boylove themes are much more common for female audiences than here in the US. I think its growing here, but its still nowhere near the popularity level of Japan, and I would be surprised if it approached that kind of popularity anytime soon in the US.

Re:Why? (2, Insightful)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678812)

Personally I hope when the first "gay" character comes out of the closet it actually has something to do with the storyline of the game, rather than it be just window dressing.

Personally, I don't. Just as a character being straight doesn't need to have anything to do with the plot of a game, a character being gay doesn't either.

In regards to the "how much longer" question, I thought Solid Snake seemed pretty fruity. Maybe that was just my fantasy life getting out of control.

Re:Why? (5, Interesting)

david.given (6740) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679023)

How about when a game comes out that has a story where the character is gay, and the characters sexuality adds something to the storyline? I'm sure it won't end up being like that, some game developer will do it just to be 'edgy' and it probably will have no bearing on the game whatsoever.

You may be interested in Graham Nelson's interactive fiction game, Jigsaw [wurb.com] (reckoned to be one of the best text adventures ever written).

There are two main characters, working against each other: White, you is the player character; and Black, the major NPC. Black is trying to change history, and you are trying to prevent it. Mostly.

One of the major plot elements is that you and Black fall in love. This makes things a little complicated, as you can imagine, and is extremely significant to the storyline.

However, the interesting thing is that Jigsaw never mentions what sex you and Black are. Clever wording means that the text never even uses pronouns to refer to the two of you. All you know is that you find Black highly attractive. This means that you're free to project any sex you like onto the two characters. Different players will have different mental images; some reviewers saw White and Black as both being male, more tended to see them as being a heterosexual couple, of various combinations. (If you're at all interested, I saw White as being female and Black as being male.) It's a remarkable piece of work.

(Must try replaying it... I never finished it the last time I tried; it is fiendishly hard.)

Re:Why? (-1, Offtopic)

JavaLord (680960) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679102)

(If you're at all interested, I saw White as being female and Black as being male.)

Then you would definatly love blacksonblondes.com [blacksonblondes.com] Wait until you are home from work/school to check it out though.

Re:Why? (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679207)

That's not an example of sexual orientation adding something to the storyline; it's an example of the author avoiding the issue of gender. Which isn't a bad idea in an interactive medium like video gaming.

Rob

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679435)

Some examples of gays or homoerotica appealing to a female audience in the USA:

Queer as Folk
Queer Eye for the Straight Guy
Anne Rice's novels, including the vampire series, Cry to Heaven, etc.
Mercedes Lackey's fantasy fiction.

As for female homosexuality in media/games, I think most males are more into "girl on girl" (ala porn), rather than "lesbians" ala Rosie or Ellen.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9680755)

claiming them to be a way to entice female players;

Not....likely. It's more likely that you can entice male players with female homosexuals.

Awesome, you quote the summary without even reading the article and get modded up. Let me help you out a little, fuckbag: They aren't talking about the USA.
"In Japan, homosexual pairings--particularly those between men--are a way to entice the female youth demographic."

Re:Why? (1)

DaphneDiane (72889) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681802)

claiming them to be a way to entice female players;

Not....likely...

I wouldn't be so sure of that. A lot of the other girls I know enjoy such stories/games. Japan has yaoi, America has slash. (IE Kirk / Spock). Actually that gives a whole new meaning to the name of this website...

Does this mean... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9678724)

... we'll be seeing a GNAA game coming out soon? :)

Put gays in games... (-1, Troll)

MalaclypseTheYounger (726934) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678782)

And allow me to capture them, imprison them, torture them, and kill them.

I'd buy it. :)

I'm joking, you bastards, don't mod me as flamebait. I'm just sick of Queer Eye this and Will and Grace that and everything gay is being shoved down the mainsteam into my home. I'm sick of it. That's why there is the WB and BET, for african american shows. Put these 'gay' shows on the 'gay' channel (Pick one, I don't care which) so I can just not watch that channel. But don't start piece-mealing gay themes into my video games cuz I won't buy it. Design and market the games to the people that will buy them.

end rant

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678832)

I wasn't aware that buffy and angel and the like were african-american shows....

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679025)

And allow me to capture them, imprison them, torture them, and kill them.

I'd buy it. :)

I'm joking, you bastards, don't mod me as flamebait. I'm just sick of Queer Eye this and Will and Grace that and everything gay is being shoved down the mainsteam into my home. I'm sick of it. That's why there is the WB and BET, for african american shows. Put these 'gay' shows on the 'gay' channel (Pick one, I don't care which) so I can just not watch that channel. But don't start piece-mealing gay themes into my video games cuz I won't buy it. Design and market the games to the people that will buy them.

I see they modded me flamebait anyways... oh well :)

True, Angel and Buffy aren't African-American shows, but the WB is well-known to contain a majority of shows that cater to that audience.

I watch Comedy Central, cuz I like comedy. I watch Cartoon Network, because I like cartoons. Put the correctly themed product to the correct audience. I.E. don't put a gay person in Grand Theft Auto, or Gran Turismo, or Doom 3. It's not what is expected/wanted.

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679193)

not expected or wanted...by you. are you sure you speak for the entire audience of those games?

and of course there won't be a gay character in Gran Turismo...unless you know how to tell the sexual orientation of a car.

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

Neo.Anderson (139705) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679245)

hehe I would love a flamboyantly gay character as the lead in doom3. but then that wouldn't really be for the sake of story so much as the comedic antics associated with overly flamboyant homosexuality in america....but would still be hilarious...kinda like replacing warcraft sounds with sweatin' to the oldies clips

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

Boglin (517490) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679302)

unless you know how to tell the sexual orientation of a car
And thank you for the disturbing mental images of Herbie, The Love Bug

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679094)

Is Bravo even mainstream? I've heard about Queer Eye for the longest time. And this only because South Park had an episode on it. But I didn't even see the show until this last weekend. And I only caught a few minutes of it.

The only way I can imagine homosexuality being "shoved down mainstream" is if you watch TV all the damn time or you watch Bravo all the damn time (who the hell watches Bravo besides for Celebrity Poker?) Or maybe you are unable to push a button on your remote control to change the channel when something "gay" comes on.

You have every right to be a homophobe. But that doesn't mean that we should force shows with themes you are incapable of accepting/understanding to a channel that you can skip (in order to continue your ignorance).

Re:Put gays in games... (-1, Flamebait)

MalaclypseTheYounger (726934) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679206)

I'm not a homophobe, really. I work with several gays. I have one good friend that is gay, and several 'acquaintances' that are gay.

Will and Grace is Mainstream. Six Feet Under is mainstream. Simpsons is mainstream. (Smithers, anyone?)

Here [umanitoba.ca] is just a short list (read:hundreds) of gay characters that are on TV. Yes, I can change the channel. But I have to change the channel a lot. If my preference was to have sex with donkeys, and I made a group of people that thought likewise, and we wanted to have programming on TV reflect out lifestyle CHOICE, you may be a little more upset. (I now await to be modded flamebait again because I'm a straight white male and my opinion in this world no longer matters)

Re:Put gays in games... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679342)

You liberal pieces of trash love to throw around the term "homophobe", don't you? First of all, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy has appeared on NBC and Will and Grace is on NBC so - yes - homosexual characters are becoming quite mainstream. In fact, their appearance on television shows a much higher percentage of gay characters than in the general population. That's right people, homosexuality is devious and not normal. Less than 3% of the population is gay. Don't forget that even if the liberals try to trick you into thinking you are somehow wrong for being a heterosexual.

The fact is that changing the channel is one thing but children are seeing shows with gay characters all the time. This is an attempt by homosexuals in the media to make homosexuality appear as something normal. You know, just a choice. Tim likes decaf. Roberta likes bagels with garden vegetable cream cheese. Rob likes to receive a dick in his ass from other men. Just a choice, right? Wrong - it is filthy and no matter how the media tries to clean it up, it is disgusting. When someone tells me that they watch Will and Grace, I ask them what they think of the male character engaging in sodomy. If that doesn't deter them, I lay it out on the line - DICK IN THE ASSHOLE, SHIT ON THE DICK, DICK IN THE MOUTH. Any responsible parents will educate their children and let them know that homosexuailty is disgusting and wrong.

Finally, let's get to your label of someone as a "homophobe." I've seen you attack someone for labeling people with "liberal" yet there you go with your labels. Homophobe means there is a fear of homosexuals. Most people who speak out against the rampant evil going on are not afraid of homosexuals. God instructs us to love all but that doesn't mean I have to allow my children to be exposed to men fucking other men in the ass and then licking the shit off of each other's dicks. Perhaps that is your idea of a good time Cornflake917 [probably it is] but I find it highly disgusting and evil. I hate the sin of homosexuality.

Tell me, do you accept bestiality? What about polygamy? There's no difference between those sins and the sin of fucking another man in the asshole and then licking the fecal matter off of his dick.

ATTENTION: CORNFLAKE917 IS A LIBERAL FRUITCAKE.

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679445)

God instructs us to love all but that doesn't mean I have to allow my children to be exposed to men fucking other men in the ass and then licking the shit off of each other's dicks.

You can't prove there even is a god, so stop trying to justify your hatreds on one. Get over yourself you self-indulgent asshole.

As for your other point: I've never engaged in anal sex, and I don't plan to. I find it hard to believe that anyone doing so would lick shit. I'm sure most people would clean themseleves off or something. Don't be insane. If all gay couples were regularly doing that they probably wouldn't live very long.

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

th3space (531154) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679654)

And really, you don't have to be engaging in homosexuality to participate in anal sex...straights do it, too. And yes, there is cleaning involved after the fact...I don't see the point in bothering to anon-cow myself on this topic, either.

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679507)

When you make a large angry post like that. It's obvious that you are afraid of and don't understand homosexuality. "Homophobe" maybe a label, but it's describes you and the parent ALOT more than the word "liberal" describes me.

Re:Put gays in games... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679604)

Typical liberal response. Rather than taking on any of the points I made, you attack me personally and call names. Why don't you answer some of my points? And what don't I understand of homosexuality? If a male homosexual couple wants to have penetration, do they not fuck one another in the asshole? Is that not how it works? Come on - you're the resident homosexual here, educate. What do you and your boyfriend do? Do you suck his dick? Does he suck yours? Do you fuck him in the asshole?

You offer no proof that I am "afraid" of homosexuality. Why don't you work on this. Furthermore, having a misunderstanding of homosexuality has little to do with being a homophobe or not. A misunderstanding could lead to a fear but merely having a misunderstanding does not mean such a fear exists. Where have I demonstrated that I am afraid? I hate the sin of homosexuality and I am willing to tell this to anyone. How is that a fear?

Tell me, do you hate what the Nazis did in Germany? I will assume yes. [Perhaps a poor assumption since you are a Muslim-loving liberal.] Does that mean you are afraid of Nazis? You liberals love to pervert the language just like you pervert everything else.

ANSWER MY POINTS! DON'T GIVE MY BULLSHIT NAME-CALLING!

Re:Put gays in games... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679772)

Your constant focus on the act of homosexual anal intercourse leads me to belive that you are probably filled with hate for one reason: You secretly fantisize about anal sex (perhaps gay, perhaps straight), and yet you think it is a sin, and only by forcing yourself to hate it, can you keep yourself from engaging in it.

Why else do you hate the act rather than the people? Do you hate straight people who engage in anal sex? How about straight people that engage in oral sex?

Re:Put gays in games... (2, Funny)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679834)

The reason I don't answer your points because doing so would be like trying to explain something like the birds and the bess or the Theory of relativity to a very young child. It would take too long and be very frustrating.

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681825)

The reason I don't answer your points because doing so would be like trying to explain something like the birds and the bess or the Theory of relativity to a very young child. It would take too long and be very frustrating.

He/she does have a valid point. If it isn't deviant behavior then why are you avoiding the subject? Do you penetrate your partner's asshole during the course of your homosexual relations? Do you wash his penis before then sucking him off or do you like the taste of his feces?

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679889)

You made points?

You must have some pretty low standards when it come to judging your own work, so let me bring my response it down to your level:

You is wrong cuz you U is a poopie H3d

If I used to many big words let me know, I would be glad to clarify it for you. Thanks

The AC is the only true non-Karma Whore

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679736)

I'm sure you have no problem watching your lesbian porn as your wife is out shopping.

Give me a break. Heterosexual couples have anal sex too. Is that how far your small little brain can go? Gay=anal sex + poop licking. I feel sorry for your kids having to grow up with such a closed minded person. Who in their freaking right mind would want to be gay in a society full of you assholes?

Cornflake wasn't crying about labels. You bring it up and become a total hypcorite by crying about labels yourself. If they are so horrible, then maybe you shouldn't throw the out too, huh? But your small little mind can't figure that out yet.

You see, we are at a time similar to that of slavery. People were beginning to realize slavery was wrong then, people are beginning to realize attacking people based on their sexual preference is wrong too. By far, the bible has more in that condones slavery than condemns homosexuality. I don't see you fighting for slaves. You Christians are such an embarassment to real Christians, you take some far spread out quotes in the bible to force your own views on people. And sadly, you are too stupid to realize it.

I hope you are old, because the future is tolerance. Soon, you bigots will die off and the world will be filled with a lot less hatred. You are no better than terrorists, spreading your hate and pain. I don't know how you can live with yourselves, but have fun voting for Bush to screw up the America for four more year.

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681847)

You see, we are at a time similar to that of slavery. People were beginning to realize slavery was wrong then, people are beginning to realize attacking people based on their sexual preference is wrong too.

So where does your quest for justice end? Once gays are afforded the same rights as heterosexuals will you march for the NAMBLA people? Pedophiles are people too you know. Man-boy love is just another expression of a healthy relationship between two caring individuals.

Re:Put gays in games... (4, Insightful)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679402)

I have a problem with all the "gay shows" on TV now-a-days not because they have gay characters, but because of how the gay characters are portrayed as having that be their only character trait. It's like homosexuality is a gimmick that executives use in order to get higher ratings.

Anybody remember Ellen DeGeneres' old self-titled sitcom? It was actually pretty funny until Ellen came out of the closet, then every episode became centered around how gay she was. All of the humor was gone and the show got canceled pretty quickly after.

Rob

Re:Put gays in games... (1)

CVaneg (521492) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680683)

I just can't believe that. You mean to tell me that there are shallow characters on TV who lack any sense of nuance? That's just crazy talk.

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681906)

I have a problem with all the "gay shows" on TV now-a-days not because they have gay characters, but because of how the gay characters are portrayed as having that be their only character trait. It's like homosexuality is a gimmick that executives use in order to get higher ratings.

What I would personally like to see is a sitcom that revolves around pedophiles as the central characters. It'd be all in good fun. Have the old-fashioned country boy sheriff pop in every show to snoop around looking for young boys being held captive while the main characters (a group of 5 male pedophile housemates who share an apartment in Texas) roll their eyes at the intolerant old fool. That'd be great fun. Homosexuals seem to distance themselves from their pedophile cousins for some reason though. It's all a big brotherhood of love that intolerant hetersexual homophobes just don't understand.

Re:Put gays in games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9680294)

On all of Slashdot, you, sir, are the least deserving of his own user name.

yeah great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9678787)

'Cause there's just not enough gayness in popular culture.

guess richard dreyfus probably approves...

Re:yeah great (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679471)

And yet, there isn't nearly enough gayness in your rectum... yet.

About FF7... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9678804)

Of course Cloud is gay! He spurned Aeris for a date with Barret! It's like turning down Jessica Alba for Mr. T! I mean, like WTF?

Re:About FF7... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679316)

haha you failed it then!

I made out with a date with Tifa. How do you like them apples biotch? I'll take here 44EE any day.

Please don't be an event (3, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678819)

" The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?"

I can't wait for the day when a new 'group' can be represented in video games on tv without making an event out of it. If I'm playing a game, and it turns out a character is gay or whatever, cool, no prob with that. As a matter of fact, that made GTA3 kind of funny. But if I'm supposed to run out and buy a game BECAUSE it's revolutionary for putting a group of people in a spotlight.. then, geez, what's the point? Am I supposed to buy this game to prove I'm not a bigot?

Eh sorry for the rant. I just have trouble imaginging that this isn't offensive to gays. In an effort to prove they're not any different from anybody else, they're made out to be uber special in some grand glorious event. It reminds me of that episode of South Park where the nurse had a fetus on her face.

Re:Please don't be an event (2, Insightful)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9678889)

Hey I totally agree with you, but its just not going to happen until EVERYONE sees [group x] as just regular people too.

I'd only buy the game because its good, not because of its social value (if the game was crap, but had a [group x] character, you're right, so what?) but when a game is good and it treats the character of [group x] just like any other character, mission accomplished in my mind.

Re:Please don't be an event (1)

Apreche (239272) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679420)

but its just not going to happen until EVERYONE sees [group x] as just regular people too.

Um, give up now then. First of all, some people are racist/sexist/*ist and wont be different no matter what you do. Second of all, people have a right to be *ist if they want. I'm not, I believe people are people and that's that, and I think that is the right way to be. However, I also believe in freedom. So if you want to believe that gays shouldn't be, you go believing that. And as long as you don't actually hurt anyone else I have no problem.

On the issue of the fanfare I think it works like this. People strive to be accepted in society. They want to stay in line and conform. I think that many people, deep inside, have a *ist feeling. Like the people who are afraid of black people they meet on the street. They might not be KKK material, but they have a feeling that is instilled inside them for whatever reason. So these people in their mind, think, logically and in-line with society that race, gender and sexual orientation to not determine the good or bad of a person. But because they have that feeling inside they need to proclaim loudly "look at me I'm not *ist!".

It's like when someone accuses you of doing something that you did and you try to lie your way out of it. You have this need to claim very loudly that you didn't do it. Whether you did it or not you have a small amount of guilt in you. To rid of this guilt you need to make sure other people know for sure that you are innocent.

People who are actually innocent just brush it off. People who are actually *ist will tell it to your face and say "yeah, what of it?" But most people have a very slight tendency to feel uncomfortable regarding social issues like this. And since in their minds they conform with society in being against *ism, they must proclalim loudly their beliefs. Just like all the TV/Radio stations who need to be sure to specifically wish happy every holiday from every religeon and culture on the earth.

Get over it. Things are the way things are and that's that.

Re:Please don't be an event (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681370)

Really, you don't have a problem with racism unless it goes as far as violence? You would be okay with, say, a neighbor who loudly and frequently complains about how the black family across the street is ruining his property value? What message do you think your tolerance of that kind of speech might send to that family, and to everyone else on your block?

Freedom is a wonderful thing to defend, but do not mistake a denial of obligation to your community for love of liberty. Racism, sexism, and homophobia need to be vocally denounced wherever they appear.

Re:Please don't be an event (4, Insightful)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679058)

In an effort to prove they're not any different from anybody else, they're made out to be uber special in some grand glorious event.

You mean like Gay Pride street parades?

Re:Please don't be an event (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679143)

"You mean like Gay Pride street parades?"

It's a little different when a huge group of them voluntarily gets together, but I get your point.

Re:Please don't be an event (3, Insightful)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679160)

Or St Patricks Day parades for the Irish? Or maybe you'd like to tell African-Americans not to have Black History Month Parades or Civil Rights marches because they shouldn't make an event out of trying to prove they're just like everyone else.

Re:Please don't be an event (1)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679539)

And anyway, now that I think about it, why shouldn't it be an event? Imagine you're a certain type of person that has never, or almost never, seen a positive representation of yourself in popular media. Why shouldn't you be excited that now there is?

Re:Please don't be an event (1)

jeeryg_flashaccess (456261) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679826)

my faith in humanity has been restored. Thank you for your insightful comentary.

What you mentioned really is the heart of the matter. Just make a damn game, let the player discover the plot, meet the characters, and enjoy the game.

I live in Seattle, sometimes my groceries are bagged by somebody who is obviously gay. I don't grab the announcement microphone and declare that I have just met a homosexual. It's not that big of a deal.

Of course if gay nude beach volleyball comes out that will probably make headlines :)

Well... (5, Interesting)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679024)

I'm openly bisexual myself and I just hate it when they make a big thing out of homo/bi/trans sexuality, like it's supposed to be sensational or chocking or something.. Get over it, it's no big deal..

That said, I love seeing gay love (I'm not talking about sex this time) in movies, when it just happens and they don't make a big thing out of it.. It's unfortunatly very rare in the westen world, but in asian movies (at least japanese and korean) you sometimes see gay/lesbian lovers and it's just there as a part of the plot and they don't focus on it anymore than they would have done with a straight couple. Beautiful!

I'd really love to see a fun lovestory adventuregame like Monkey Island but where Elaine is a guy (or even better, a transsexual) but they just ARE without making it a "gay-game"...

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679289)

bisexual == greedy, just pick one!

Re:Well... (3, Insightful)

cephyn (461066) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680065)

Of course, its normal and common over there, so of course they dont make a big deal about it. Here, its not like that. Once a big deal is made, it will be normal and not a big deal after. Just look at civil rights for a historical context. A big deal was made when women fought for, and won, the right to vote for the first time. Now, its not a big deal, its normal for women to vote. What would be a big deal is if you say, lowered the voting age to 16 or something like that.

Re:Well... (1)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680224)

Sure, gay rights is a big and important political question right now because gay people are being politically opressed but homosexuality in itself is not a big thing, that's what I meant.

Re:Well... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9680692)

You're an AIDs infested fag. What do you need games for?

Re:Well... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681399)

Hi, Anonymous Coward here again. I'd like to apologise for my comments in the above post.

It's true; the only reason I made those comments was because my repressed homosexuality made me uncomfortable, but now I've come to accept it.

Jeez, what an asshole I used to be. Please forgive me.

Try XBL! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679076)

Gosh, the author obviously hasn't played Xbox Live very much. If I'm to believe what everyone I've played against says, nearly everyone on XBL is gay.

There are already games that focus on gayness (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679139)

Just go play some Unreal or Quake or Enemy Territory or whatever, and see how long it takes before someone calls you a fag...

Who Has Time? (0, Flamebait)

blunte (183182) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679247)

Who has time for gay video games when there are so many gay pride marches to attend!

Mod parent up!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681120)

Put it through the roof while wearing angel wings and a see-through codpiece!

Because that's how you earn respect for your sick and twisted sexual practices, right? Start yourself a public butt-train and the world will see how wrong they were about you!

As someone from Amsterdam, bleeeeeeeeh (2, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679252)

From what little I know from japan from the media (and how much does anyone of us really know about the world except through the media) they are even more homophobic then Americans. It is just that there is one segment of the entertainment media that makes money off selling stories about guys in love with guys. Why? Ask a yaoi reading japanese girl :P then ask her for her phone number and take an upskirt photo (perhaps that is the reason. It has been suggested that to women gay men are safe. A gay man will not harress, rape or peek at them.) As a guy I like some ecchi anime but some of it crosses the line where you start to wonder when the girl will just punch the guys teeth out.

Anyway that is my theory about yaoi.

In most games where relationships take a role I don't like it when I am forced to "only" take the approved hetero option. The sims was a very welcome exception. I can tolerate that the love interest in Planescape torment are only girls, I am a guy with strong hetero feelings (translation: Oooh bouncies!!!!!) but I can imagine that a hetero female or gay male or gay female wants to have a wider choice then angel succubus and boiling devil girl.

Same with the otherwise excellent KOTOR. Why can't I whoo balista with a female char eh? (and people that choose to finding out that the mandolorians were like the spartans eh?)

As someone whose family was closely affected by the holocaust I am extremely nervous about people that suggest that certain life styles are less worthy. You just know that people that say gay people should have lesser rights then hetero's want to say the same thing about differently colored people or people with different religions.

So good luck to The sims 2, a courageos decision if they really leave it in in the current american climate. Peter Molyneux if you finally allow me to play a lesbian (and anyone who wants to a gay) paladin I might even forgive you for Black & White. (note it got to be a love story not toee was not a love story)

As to the gamespot story, well it is clear its author still needs to learn a thing or two about homosexuality. Picking out high-heels and lipstick for your female avatar doesn't make you gay. If anything picking a male character and making his looks just right and hunky makes you gay. Creating a sweet hot perky female avatar just makes you pervert. When gay rights have been achieved world wide the human race will have made a step forward but when the rights of perverts have been regonized we will have arived at nirvana. Oh well back to getting balista to play the b-side. (as a side note do female players of KOTOR like the way the male comes on to their character? As the male I played the "50's" movie banter character constantly teasing balista but playing as a female I just found him tiresome, is that my testosterone talking or does the estrogene crowd feel the same?)

Re:As someone from Amsterdam, bleeeeeeeeh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679421)

Gay/lez Paladin never! However, a homosexual druid would prob. make sense.

Re:As someone from Amsterdam, bleeeeeeeeh (2, Insightful)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680906)

Same with the otherwise excellent KOTOR. Why can't I whoo balista with a female char eh?

I'd have to hazard a guess that balista simply isn't attracted to women. If the designers were really clever, they'd have a few male charcters that can't woo her either, on account of her not liking them.

Oh, and most of your post is very close to trollish. While I agree that homosexuals deserve a plethora of rights, it's wrongheaded to think that there are no "lifestyles" deserving of scorn. Serial killers and abusive rapists are two that come easily to mind as very much scorn-worthy.

There are lots of reasoned and intelligent arguments for gay marriage and accepted homosexuality--and the world will not accept either of those things until their proponents raise their level of discorse from ill-formed arguments and ad hominem atacks.

(Ill-formed argument: an argument not thought through. For example, if you say "it should be enough that they love each other" as your argument for gay marriage, then by the same token incest, polyamory, and possibly even pedophilla are all worhty--with the same argument. [My preferred argument for gay marriage is "if we allow a sexual union to happen legally, we should have a mechanism to give it legal standing." Nice and keeps out incest & pedophillia, too.])

(The ad hominem attacks I'm referring to is the unfortunate tendancy to call someone who is opposed to gay rights a "homophobe." Mental disorders aside, there are at least two logical if not entirely convincing arguments against homosexuality that have nothing to do with fear. [ask me and I'll relate them.])

mod (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679257)

this story as gay

Will Wright (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9679275)

Is it really suprising his game includes homosexual elements? Doesn't he fly the pink flag at home?

Hasn't Homosexuality been Common in Video Games? (0, Flamebait)

dancingmad (128588) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679853)

Wait, what about Mario and Luigi? Haven't they been around for a while? ;)

Let's not even mention Toad...

Re:Hasn't Homosexuality been Common in Video Games (1)

Ayaress (662020) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680690)

Mario wasn't gay. He had several women over the years, most particularly Princess Toadstool and whoever that girl in Donkey Kong was.

The jury's still out on Luigi, but Toad was about as straight as Richard Simmons.

Homosexuality in Japanese games... (2, Insightful)

dancingmad (128588) | more than 9 years ago | (#9679950)

...comes from the presence of it in Japanese culture. The Japanese are much more open about sexuality on the entertainment level than Americans are: Janet Jackson shows one so so breast and the country freaks out. One of the most popular doramas (an hour long sitcom / drama) in the last few years was GTO (based on anime and manga), which should characters watching hardcore porno (and showed the porn). That sexuality has been a part of Japanese culture since the explicit Tale of Genji and later explicit wood block prints.

This extends to homosexuality; it's no secrect that priests and samurai often performed homosexual acts. Beat Takeshi Kitano was in a film about this, Gohatto, which presented members of the Shinsengumi as homosexual.

As mentioned Yuri and Yayoi are popular manga genres exploring lesbian and gay themes respectively. Even other popular media can have references to it; I remember in Final Fantasy VII Cloud getting his HP restored after visiting a brothel and being fapped (nothing is shown) by another guy. A lot of it can be done jokingly.

Re:Homosexuality in Japanese games... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9681749)

...comes from the presence of it in Japanese culture. The Japanese are much more open about sexuality on the entertainment level than Americans are

One guy fucking another guy's asshole is NOT, in any civilized nation, "sexy". It's disgusting sick deviant behavior. I'd rather watch a horse fuck a woman than two guys go at it. The thought of it makes me want to vomit.

if you want to be serious (1, Troll)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680197)

There are many movies and games that had hidden gay characters. For example, Tom Cruise plays a homosexual character in top gun the movie. There are clues everywhere. Though they made it so that it was hidden / acceptable in the 80s.

Other homosexual game characters include Don Flamingo in Mike Tyson's punchout. Many more.

Trolling on topic you bitches (-1, Troll)

m_evanchik (398143) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680302)

Finally, a slashdot thread where the Gay Niggers From Outer Space are "on topic". You can google it yourself, I'm too lazy to post links.

Life is good.

How often does it matter? (1)

Belgand (14099) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680528)

The problem is that in many games it really isn't a relevant issue. Often this becomes more of an issue in role-playing games or other games where the storyline may involve romantic subplots and such, but much of the time it's irrelevant.

Quite frankly I think that this is probably the preferable option as well. It's far more realistic whereas making a character explicitly homosexual would make that a central aspect of the character. Does it matter whether the commandos in Contra were homosexual or heterosexual? It just isn't an issue as far as the game is concerned and either option would be equally acceptable. The majority of the population, however, simply assumes that anyone not explicitly stated to be homosexual is heterosexual.

Queer Eye (2)

NedR (701006) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680544)

For the most part, the article was relatively interesting, but it touched on one small pet peeve of mine. That is to say, it is absolutely necessary to mention Queer Eye for the Straight Guy in every single public discussion of homosexuality in the media? It seemed out of place in the article, which just made it irritating.

Hey, what about the pioneering character in this (1)

foidulus (743482) | more than 9 years ago | (#9680751)

field? The writeup makes no mention of Gary Fairy, the towel man in LSL 6! He was a pioneer, treat him as such!

umm duh (1)

shaitand (626655) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681117)

"but oddly focuses on male homosexual relationships"

Probably because the largest audience for games at the moment is straight men and straight men are turned on by bi-sexual, lesbian, and straight women? Most straight men would not however be comfortable playing a game with a gay male theme.

Most women I've known on the other hand, just want there to be pics of naked studs as well as bimbos, and wouldn't be uncomfortable regardless?

Of course their answer might be different in a forum asking their opinion publically where they feel they "represent" the female view, as opposed to what they'll tell you one on one eating pizza and talking about life.

Star Trek: Elite Force (1)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681176)

I saw this in a game once. Anyone ever play the game Star Trek: Elite Force [gameinformer.com]? It's a standard FPS, but they throw some cutscenes at you. The interesting thing was you could play as a male or female member of the Elite Force.

About halfway through the game, a female NPC hits on you in the ship's bar. I think this part of the script was written assuming you were playing the male character. My first time playing through as the female character, it was surprising for me when I realized that a female character was coming onto another female character in a videogame (and a Star Trek game, at that.)

Trekkie lesbian action. Cue the cheesy jazz music .. that's a video I'd like to watch. :-)

They're Already Here! (0)

Deadguy2322 (761832) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681334)

The Super Mario games are blatantly Gay! Just look at the mustaches, not to mention the very Penile-looking mushrooms!

Of course it's male homosexuality... (1)

gamgee5273 (410326) | more than 9 years ago | (#9681875)

We've seen female homosexuality, at least alluded to, in games for years now: Grand Theft Auto III, Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, Fear Effect, Enter the Matrix...

I'm sure I could go on. For a while.

As for the argument that homosexual characters could be used to bring in female players, I think that's on target. There have been more than a few essays written about the fact that most of the Kirk-Spock erotica out there is written by women for women. A lot of the male-on-male sexual encounters in Japanese pop culture are designed for women. It was only a matter of time before, in the game companies' driving need to grow their audience, this began.

In all honesty, I'm waiting to see if any Japanese dating sims are brought over here in the next few years - maybe for the PS3 (or even the Nintendo Revolution, if they want to go that route).

As far as I'm concerned: it's not my cup of tea, but as long as stores don't go selling soft-core videogames (straight or gay) to kids, I could care less what markets the game companies go after.

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