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New MusE Release, A Step Toward The Linux Studio

timothy posted about 10 years ago | from the gee-look-at-all-the-little-black-dots dept.

Music 250

spamatica writes "In these times when multimedia on Linux seems to be on a roll, it's my pleasure to break the news that one of the most powerful midi/audio sequencers on Linux, MusE, has just had a new release. This release is a major milestone featuring things such as Jack-transport and win32/VST-Instrument support. Moreover it has been much improved concerning usability, stability and functionality. The Linux-based studio is looming ever closer -- in fact, it's here!"

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FIRST POST (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736610)

YEa bitch, come suck me now, and like it too. GNAA SUX!

Spam (-1, Offtopic)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 10 years ago | (#9736614)

spamatica writes "In these times when multimedia on Linux seems to be on a roll, it's my pleasure to break the news that one of the most powerful midi/audio sequencers on Linux, MusE, has just had a new release.

The submitter has a fitting nickname indeed...

Re:Spam (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736698)

Come on mods, it's offtopic but it's funny. I laughed...

Exciting.. (2, Insightful)

superhoe (736800) | about 10 years ago | (#9736615)

.. all I need now is to get my professional audio card to actually work under Linux.

Re:Exciting.. (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736672)

The unix based professional sound studio is here.

www.apple.com

I hate to sound snide, but why settle for linux when you can get fantastic hardware support, incredible OS audio implementation and decent GUI for all unix OS audio packages and for all the real pro gear like logic.

Re:Exciting.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736686)

He is heterosexual.

Re:Exciting.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736769)

rofl

Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.

It's been 19 seconds since you hit 'reply'.

Re:Exciting.. (0, Offtopic)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | about 10 years ago | (#9736707)

You don't sound snide at all, getting sound cards to work in Linux isn't exactly a science, and every other kernel seems to break them.

Re:Exciting.. (1)

mirko (198274) | about 10 years ago | (#9736790)

I switched to Mac because the following award-winning cards were NEVER recognized under Linux (I highly doubt they will, BTW).



Of course, it's nice for the /. crowd that there now is a sequencer that looks like Cubase VST before Y2K (this is not intended to be a flamebait, it's just a personal constatation) but I do not think there will be a product as well done as Logic Pro [emagic.de] or at least as Reason [propellerhead.se] before they once again elevate the standard.

Re:Exciting.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736884)

The SW1000XG appears to have the same degree of support on Mac OS X as it does in Linux, ie none.

Maybe you should have bought a card with specifications that are open, or at least made available on reasonable terms, in order that it might continue to be supported after the vendor loses interest.

Re:Exciting.. (1)

gallir (171727) | about 10 years ago | (#9736720)

It's free soft^W^Hdom, freedom, stupid!

Re:Exciting.. (1)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | about 10 years ago | (#9736729)

agreed, free^H^H^Hdom is all well and good but if it involves crap software that is hard to use and doesnt perform as well as commercial software then I will spend my dollars.

Re:Exciting.. (4, Informative)

abe ferlman (205607) | about 10 years ago | (#9736825)

My Delta 1010 works just fine, as does my Turtle Beach USB MIDI adapter.

Your Echo Darla, Gina, Layla or RME Hamerfall card would be supported by ALSA as well, among others. Linux audio may have issues, but a lack of professional sound cards that work is not one of them.

Re:Exciting.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736912)

Of course you are not going to tell us the model, are you?

Finally, (4, Insightful)

Lispy (136512) | about 10 years ago | (#9736617)

I can put my old Atari 1040ST to rest. No, seriously, this is another killerapp that kept some of my friends from switching to Linux so far. I am really curious if it is competitve enough and easy to use for all those Apple switchers.

Re:Finally, (1)

CdBee (742846) | about 10 years ago | (#9736639)

I suspect if it's really that good it'll get ported to OS X anyway, many othr GPL apps of this kind (Think AudaCity) get ported eventually.

Re:Finally, (2, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 10 years ago | (#9736643)

I can put my old Atari 1040ST to rest. No, seriously, this is another killerapp that kept some of my friends from switching to Linux so far.

I'm curious: you do know that Cubase exists on Windows and Macintosh, right? Heck, you even have the choice of using Cakewalk or DP on those platforms.

What's this Atari ST nonsense? I can't decide whether you're trolling, or you're such a hysterical Windows and Mac hater that you're willing to not use anything but your Atari until something's available for Linux...

Re:Finally, (5, Interesting)

Threni (635302) | about 10 years ago | (#9736709)

> What's this Atari ST nonsense?

So you know little about audio software, right? Cubase on the ST was more stable and usable 12 or more years ago than the same software under Windows. I gave up trying to get accurate, fast hihats on my PC, instead using Cakewalk (which is inferior to Cubase in practically every other way). Cubase on the ST is rock solid, with out-of-the-box midi support, and many studios still use it. You're suggesting people upgrade from STs just because they're old? Why? That's just not how things work once you get out of the PC industry. People upgrade because there's a point to it, or because they have to, not just because they can.

Atari ST and Sequencing (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736741)

Actually the Atari ST is still pretty popular for MIDI sequencing ... something about the basic operating system providing for no unexpected behaviour when sequencing, unlike Windows that can decide to halt suddenly when it decides to mess with RAM, hard drive caching or another task messes up everything.

Re:Finally, (1)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | about 10 years ago | (#9736750)

I agree with the poster, I owned an Atari ST and an Amiga, and now both are rusting away in the Garage because everything they can do can be done on modern hardware with modern operating systems faster and better.

If you really insist on booting your OS off a 720k floppy and waiting another 3 minutes for your application to come up, then being limited to 100k for a sample then who am I to stop you...

Re:Finally, (2, Interesting)

tolan-b (230077) | about 10 years ago | (#9736756)

The Atari ST has very low MIDI latency. Also, the OS is on firmare, so you don't have to boot off floppy.

Re:Finally, (1)

LizardKing (5245) | about 10 years ago | (#9736785)

limited to 100k for a sample

Some of us aren't totally enamoured by software synths and samplers. I'd rather use hardware devices (analogue preferably), and just use the computer as a sequencer and patch editor/librarian.

Re:Finally, (1)

Kiryat Malachi (177258) | about 10 years ago | (#9736834)

If you do that, then why do you need the kind of timing ST owners blather on about? There are outboard sequencers that would do you just fine.

Re:Finally, (1)

LizardKing (5245) | about 10 years ago | (#9736885)

If you do that, then why do you need the kind of timing ST owners blather on about? There are outboard sequencers that would do you just fine.

I don't need anything out of the ordinary when it comes to latency. The main reason I use the ST instead of a hardware sequencer, is the better interaction via mouse, monitor and keyboard. Saying that, I do have an ancient Roland MC-300 sequencer that I use for live stuff (it's a rugged little beastie).

Re:Finally, (5, Informative)

LizardKing (5245) | about 10 years ago | (#9736770)

What's this Atari ST nonsense?

I still use Steinberg Pro-24 (the forerunner to Cubase) on an Atari ST. It is far more stable than any version of Cubase that I have used on a PC. I don't own a Mac, but I do hear that recent versions of Cubase have been rock solid on that operating system. So if I upgraded that would be they way I'd go. Then again by the time I can afford a decent Mac, Rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/) may have reached a stable release ...

As for the poster below who talks about booting from a 720Kb floppy, my ST has a SCSI hard drive, and boots in seconds.

Re:Finally, (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | about 10 years ago | (#9736675)

I would Band in the Box, a crappy old tool that does what the musician *really* needs. From a usability perspective it may be bad, from a usefulness perspective it is unrivaled

It looks fully functional but.. (2, Insightful)

alex_ware (783764) | about 10 years ago | (#9736623)

if they made a live distro outof it, then it would help people change. do people want to dump windows before even trying the software: no

Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736627)

..... where's the .tar.gz at?

Re:Interesting (2, Informative)

Tarential (662979) | about 10 years ago | (#9736838)

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/lmuse/muse-0.7. 0.tar.bz2?download .tar.bz2 - good enough?

This is where Apple has traditionally worked (4, Interesting)

Saven Marek (739395) | about 10 years ago | (#9736629)

This is where Apple has traditionally worked, and it's been a strong position for them.

While the market isn't big, it is fiercely loyal and worth money to them. Now that Linux based solutions can compete and strip away that advantage, Linux too will embed itself more concretely in the mindset of Yet Another Subculture.

Heh. Why would you now spend $50k on a mac recording studio when you can get a Linux based one for the cost of cheap 2nd hand hardware?. Revolutions baby...

The Nets Biggest Adult Anime Gallery's [sharkfire.net]

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (3, Insightful)

proj_2501 (78149) | about 10 years ago | (#9736642)

well, there are reasons to avoid cheap 2nd hand hardware for a studio. if you can't get low latency or a low noise floor out of your sound card, or if you can't get linux drivers for the card, what's the point in saving money?

also, there's no ableton live for linux, which is key in my book :)

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (0)

Saven Marek (739395) | about 10 years ago | (#9736651)

or if you can't get linux drivers for the card, what's the point in saving money?

But that's the biggest advantage of Linux!!!. If you cant get the drivers u have all the infrastructure there in front of you and the tools to write the driver, and a driver that works how u want it to. If it were a propritary system you could be waiting months or years for support that might not come. It might take a little longer to set up but then u have a system that you can trust because you built it!.

The Nets Biggest Adult Anime Gallery's [sharkfire.net]

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736673)

I think the key there is the phrase "If it were a propritary system you could be waiting months or years for support that might not come". On all systems with a large enough base of users, there will be people willing to offer advice and solutions, that is not the a situation peculiar to Linux.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

winchester (265873) | about 10 years ago | (#9736684)

Some people actually just want to use the software to create, not tinker around with deboggers and compilers, learning how to do driver development under Linux.

Interesting though it may sound to develop your own drivers, I just want my machine to be usable as a music production tool, not as a tinker device in a perpetual state of change.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

doofusclam (528746) | about 10 years ago | (#9736690)

Rubbish. I'd like to know just how many people in the world are capable of writing a proper low-latency driver for sound card which takes full advantage of any hardware assist built in.

Having less drivers is *not* an advantage. Much as i'd love to use this programme, it's going to make little difference to the poor state of Linux sound support.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

burnttoy (754394) | about 10 years ago | (#9736703)

Man! That's a good one! All I wanted to to was record some sounds but first I have to spend 6 months tracking down hardware specs (that might not be available) and writing (AND debugging) a bunch of low level, machine mangling driver code. I write drivers for a living, music helps me relax!

Note... it's very easy to get the MS DDKs.... very easy... WDM has worked well as a driver model. MS wants to replace it with Longhorn. I DON'T think this should (be allowed to) happen. WDM is supported across multiple (windows) OS's and I really don't see why some clever coders can't encapsulate that functionality.... hint, hint.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (5, Insightful)

Dylan2000 (592069) | about 10 years ago | (#9736710)

Here you are, Mr. Bowie, your studio is finished, you can start recording your next 'Space Oddity' now!

"How come I'm not hearing any sound?"

Oh yeah, I forgot, here's the manual. And a copy of 'How to learn C++ in 21 days'. Don't forget to recompile your kernel once you've written the driver.

"Colonel? Chauffeur??"

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (0)

myster0n (216276) | about 10 years ago | (#9736865)

Now this is totally off-topic, and maybe I idolize Bowie too much, but I think that he'd at least be interested in it.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

EachLennyAPenny (731871) | about 10 years ago | (#9736721)

The same person cappable of writing such a driver for Linux could as well write it fo Windows or MAc OS X. I fail to see the advantage of Linux.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (2, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | about 10 years ago | (#9736737)

If it were a propritary system you could be waiting months or years for support that might not come.

I'm not sure quite how to break this to you, but the essential problem is that the architecture of professional sound cards is a propriatary system.

You cannot write a driver worth a crap against a secret spec. If the card manufacturers will not release those specs you are stuck waiting for support that might not come.

It isn't enough for your software to be open source. Your hardware must be open spec as well.

KFG

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736689)

If you cant get the drivers u have all the infrastructure there in front of you and the tools to write the driver, and a driver that works how u want it to.
I can understand what you are trying to say, but you know, it's a really crappy thing to tell someone to write their own driver for a device which is not supported under linux. you know, not all of us are programmers who write all of our own stuff on linux. i just think it's annoying when someone will tell someone else that they might as well write their own driver for a device which isn't currently supported. pretty much, it comes off like you are telling them "tough shit".

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

Threni (635302) | about 10 years ago | (#9736687)

> Now that Linux based solutions can compete and strip away that advantage

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's a long way to go before it's accurate to describe Linux as a suitable choice of platform for the professional musician.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

wulfhound (614369) | about 10 years ago | (#9736733)

Most of that $50K is hardware - DSP accelerators, fast external drives, high quality AD/DA convertors. Yes, you can get equivalent performance with cheaper hardware, but we are still talking about rather more than a $500 secondhand PC.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (1)

Saven Marek (739395) | about 10 years ago | (#9736791)

I was under the impression none of this is really necessary. After all ur working digitally, and can do all ur audio straight from what ur working on into a CD ISO.

Burn it to CD and their is the master, no AD/DA necessary

The Nets Biggest Adult Anime Gallery's [sharkfire.net]

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (4, Informative)

pesc (147035) | about 10 years ago | (#9736848)

After all ur working digitally, and can do all ur audio straight from what ur working on into a CD ISO.

You need a professional soundcard because:

1) You may want to record good quality audio. Maybe from several sources simultaneously.

2) You may want to listen to what you are doing before burning a CD.

3) You need a professional soundcard with latency of a few ms (and good drivers) so that you can play a note on a MIDI keyboard and not having to wait half a second to hear it from your softsynth and effects.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (2, Insightful)

Kiryat Malachi (177258) | about 10 years ago | (#9736890)

Your impression is wrong.

First, you need good A/Ds if you have *any* external instrumentation. If you're using hardware effects (and pros do) you'll need good D/As as well. I have *severe* doubts that the free plugins available will necessarily sound as good as some of the really nice ones from people like Waves or Universal Audio, and many still won't use those plugins, preferring to use outboard hardware (how much is an LA-1 going for these days? Anyone? Bueller?) And those plugins go for damn near as much as the hardware they replace. You can count on a couple grand here; even if you wind up using RNC's for all your compressors, they're still gonna cost you a couple hundred per, and you need more than one if you're doing multitrack.

Many studios provide some instruments to customers; that cost isn't going to change.

You'll need outboard compressors, and outboard mixing, in order to do real multi-tracking (especially of vocals), because you'll have serious dynamic range issues trying to track them without at least a little bit of compression available. You could, I suppose, go straight into pre-amped A/D inputs, but then again, that hardware isn't cheap either.

Good monitoring hardware is important, and you'll need to spend around $1000, minimum, to achieve acceptable results. Most studios will spend more, acquiring multiple pairs of monitors in different price ranges, as well as some typical "home" speakers for final checkout.

And of course, we're forgetting the most expensive, most often forgotten, and in many ways most important part of a studio - the room itself. It can cost a metric ass-tonne in order to properly treat a room, and god forbid you have to knock down/rebuild/move walls to make it sound-tight and to eliminate nasty room modes.

Sure, if you want to do a computer-only studio, which is pretty much useful only for totally synthetic music (you've pretty much limited yourself to non-vocal electronic music with no real instruments and no outboard anything), you could use a Linux solution with spare hardware, but most of that sort of studio wind up spending a bunch on their computer because *everything* has to happen inside of their computer and they don't have enough processing for it all to happen at once.

$50,000 is a reasonable figure for a low-to-mid end studio; of that, exactly how much is the OS, computer software that could be replaced with Free, and computer hardware (not audio hardware) cost? About $5,000, tops.

Re:This is where Apple has traditionally worked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736913)

$50,000 studio!? Just what the FUCK would you be spending $50k on for an Apple studio that you wouldnt need in a Linux studio? I'd love to know.

I checked this software out, and its so absurdly far behind apps like Logic, Digital Performer, Protools and even Cubase in terms of features and ease of use that I cant help but laugh. It looks like even more of a joke when you factor in Linux's appalling soundcard support.

Linux cannot compete, not yet anyway. Seriously, theres a reason why software like this sells for $$$. Ive tried a lot of Linux software, and without exception its been far below the quality of what they are trying to immitate.

felonious payper liesense execrable hypenosys (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736630)

WANing, again? the fruition of trustworthycomputing.com, at long last?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Mi cr osofts-Security-Struggles.html

yikes almighty? haveN'T we seen enough? lookout bullow.

all is not lost?

consult with/trust in yOUR creators... conveying stuff that really matters... since/until forever. see you there?

Thats nice (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736634)

How about some of these super-star coders make things like simple audio work properly on Linux? Hands up if your soundcard doesn't work properly with ALSA, or aRts doesn't work properly, or you can't get Real Player to use the correct audio device.

Audio on Linux is a joke, and anyone suggesting for a second that it could be used in a professional studio must have a serious brain injury.

Re:Thats nice (4, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 10 years ago | (#9736679)

How about some of these super-star coders make things like simple audio work properly on Linux? Hands up if your soundcard doesn't work properly with ALSA, or aRts doesn't work properly

I have a shiny sixpence here that says you have a VIA, i8x0 or other such insanely bad integrated sound device.

I mean honestly, ALSA is usually nothing but flawless with any decent soundcard. Even the $15 SBLive works great. Granted, ALSA isn't the easiest thing to set up, but once it's done, it works. As for aRTs, well hmm,.. it's aRTs you know, but at least with a soundcard that supports hardware mixing, it won't tie your audio out.

Audio on Linux is a joke,

Traditionally that's true. But fortunately, some people want to improve it instead of just whining about it like you.

Oh and also, just so you know, your post was OT, since the article is about a MIDI sequencer, not PCM audio through the soundcard.

Re:Thats nice (1)

mccalli (323026) | about 10 years ago | (#9736752)

Oh and also, just so you know, your post was OT, since the article is about a MIDI sequencer, not PCM audio through the soundcard.

Not in this case - the article specifically references VST instruments. VST will be played through the sound card, so Linux sound card drivers and latencies are very important indeed in this case.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Thats nice (1)

superhoe (736800) | about 10 years ago | (#9736782)

I mean honestly, ALSA is usually nothing but flawless with any decent soundcard. Even the $15 SBLive works great.

Exactly, but let's go a bit further. Even the $15 card works fine - but $500 card doesn't. That's the main problem. There is a need to support the pro cards (with all features) until you can go pro with Linux audio.

I can definitely get my SBLive working with ALSA, but that's unfortunately not the card I produce with :P

Ok, ok, it's the manufacturers..

Re:Thats nice (1)

DavidChristopher (633902) | about 10 years ago | (#9736829)

You do realize that a Soundblasters are not considered "Professional"? They're not even "Prosumer".

Until my MOTU interfaces are SUPPORTED (by MOTU, I need a throat to choke) my DAW will remain Windows.

Sorry, we're not yet ready for Primetime.

D

Re:Thats nice (2, Interesting)

13Echo (209846) | about 10 years ago | (#9736852)

Agreed. And anyone that says that audio on Linux is a joke needs to have their head checked. Not only is the latency lower than Windows, but the ALSA/Jack subsystem is becoming more functional than DirectX in many respects.

If people would stop buying crappy integrated chips, they'd realize that Linux audio is certainly not a joke. It may not be perfect yet, but in a few years it will be THE system for audio. The framework is already there. We simply need more support from hardware manufacturers.

Re:Thats nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736901)

I have a shiny sixpence here that says you have a VIA, i8x0 or other such insanely bad integrated sound device.

Nope, but thanks for the shiny sixpence. Heres a thing though; if I did have a VIA, i8x0 or other such insanely bad integrated sound device Alsa would be a damn sight easier to setup and work, because it supports crap integrated hardware much better than it does pro. or even highend consumer stuff. Case in point: who else but Alsa could take a perfectly functional emu10k1 driver and break it? I'll even contradict myself with a counterpoint; the au88x0 drivers.

it's aRTs you know, but at least with a soundcard that supports hardware mixing..

You mean drivers that support hardware mixing. There is a lot of hardware "supported" by Alsa that has voices but the driver only supports a single stereo PCM voice.

Re:Thats nice (2, Interesting)

ignatus (669972) | about 10 years ago | (#9736855)

Audio on Linux is a joke

No it's not. Allright, not every soundcard is fully covered. And yes, that's mostly the manufacturers fault for not revealing the specifications and refusing to implement a driver themselves.

But on the other hand, unlike windows, linux has a lot more configuration options. Some year ago, i usually argued that my live! soundblaster just sounded _better_ in windows. Until i discoverd i could costomize the build-in 5-band equalizer in linux (i didn't even know it was there because windows didn't mention it). Hell, you can even root the mixer inputs to the card's output yourself if you want to (which is very neat if you want to fully exploit /dev/dsp2 capabilities).

Yes, it's not allways as user friendly. But i rather have the ability to costomize than none at all. Normal users aren't going to bother anyway.

Great... (1)

burnttoy (754394) | about 10 years ago | (#9736635)

Now... where's the drivers for more synth cards?? Oh... there aren't any.... oh well.... Linux sound is fine for the desktop (mostly onboard or Creative) but many important cards are not supported.

Re:Great... (1)

localekko (587362) | about 10 years ago | (#9736766)

Agreed. Show me solid, complete Linux support for a Yamaha DS2416 and Emagic AMT-8, then I will ditch Logic.

still no vst support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736636)

until Linux DAW's are able to support VST's with low latency (which could rule out the possibility of using WINE for compatibility), I don't see how Linux DAWs can make much headway.. Perhaps for tracking only, but certainly not for mixing. Not too many people will be willing to shelve their hundreds of dollars worth of VST effects to switch to Linux... *sigh*.. all in due time though I suppose.

Re:still no vst support... (2, Informative)

Queuetue (156269) | about 10 years ago | (#9736650)

Why would the use of WINE prevent low latency use? One more time, WINE is an implementation of the same win32 spec as MS Windows is - not a slow emulator. It therefore can and often does run just as fast as windows - and in some cases, faster.

Is the latency an educated userspace vs kernel space issue you can expand upon, or just a personal bias against WINE?

Re:still no vst support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736674)

you could say "personal bias"... I have not used WINE within the past year, but past experiences I had with WINE the applications seemed much less responsive on the same machine then running within windows natively.. However, because I am not a WINE expert, I said that wine COULD be a problem in low-latency VST plugins.. Based on your comments, apparently it is not a problem, so bring on the VST support..

Re:still no vst support... (1)

wulfhound (614369) | about 10 years ago | (#9736754)

It's not a big problem. WINE is slower than Windows API calls, yes, but VSTs shouldn't be making Windows API calls from the low-latency parts of the code anyway (and indeed, the vast majority do not).

Re:still no vst support... (1)

sigaar (733777) | about 10 years ago | (#9736866)

Well, see, that's the only problem with WINE. If your app of choice is not completely supported, it might run slower or not at all.

In all fairness, it wasn't Steinberg's intention to have Cubase run on Linux, nor was it Linus' intention to write a kernel that would run Windows apps.

As for speed, some completely supported apps are really much faster. When Return to Castle Wolfenstein just came out, I couldn't play it in Windows (Celeron 500, 256mb, TNT2 16mb) - only got about 3-5 fps. Playing the windows binary in linux under WINE (the linux binary wasn't out yet) gave me a bout 9 fps on avarage, which made it *barely just* playable.

Re:still no vst support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736725)

vst support has been around for ages. where have you been?

Re:still no vst support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736762)

that depends on what you consider to be support.. If by support you mean that your expensive TC Native plugins will have part of the GUI missing, and you have to click around on empty portions to get sliders to show up, then sure.. Its well supported.. And before you buy any new plugins you need to go check a compatibility page to see what caveats are going to stand in your way.. It's just not there yet. And I suppose that really it is more of a WINE problem then a muse/ardour/jack problem, but there were a lot of reports of stuck notes on the VSTi plugins as well...

Re:still no vst support... (2, Interesting)

nmoog (701216) | about 10 years ago | (#9736801)

I dont know who you were addressing that initial question to, but I do agree that VST support is (almost) essential to anyone wanting to do pro audio.

There are a couple of really decent attempts at using vst plugins under wine. Check this excellent tutorial from Dave Phillips [djcj.org]

I have got all my favourite VSTi and VST plugins going a treat thanks to this.

Now quit whinging.

Re:still no vst support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736826)

what plugins do you have successfully installed?. Are they freeware or pro plugins?/..

Have you tried the Timeworks, TC, Waves, PSP plugs?

Can you get ACID, Fruity Loops, HALiON, or Kontakt going?..

just curious if its worth the time looking into this or not.

Re:still no vst support... (1)

Kiryat Malachi (177258) | about 10 years ago | (#9736902)

I'd worry about the Waves authorization method breaking; last set I used was still dongle-authorized, I don't know if its changed since then, but its probably something equally noxious.

ardour? (3, Interesting)

MancunianMaskMan (701642) | about 10 years ago | (#9736637)

anyone know how this compares (quality-wise, cpu-hunger-wise, functionality-wise) to ardour [ardour.org] .

I can't try it out because my pII-233 is a bit weak...

Re:ardour? (3, Informative)

JohnWilliams (781097) | about 10 years ago | (#9736691)

Ardour is a hard disk recorder. Muse is a MIDI sequencer with some support for audio tracks. They are not competitive, but complementary.

Re:ardour? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | about 10 years ago | (#9736696)

There is only one tool to compete with: http://www.pgmusic.com/bandbox.htm It is a user-centered product, not for professionals, for musicians. It features everything musicians really need.

Re:ardour? (1)

JohnWilliams (781097) | about 10 years ago | (#9736724)

I find this comment difficult to believe. Band in a Box is a bunch of preset sequences and samples. This person's definition of "musician" versus "professional" is very strange. (I am an amateur musician, but I believe there is such a thing as a professional musician.) Perhaps ElektroSchock can tell me where I'm wrong?

Re:ardour? (1)

wulfhound (614369) | about 10 years ago | (#9736749)

Nice advert :p - sure, Band In A Box isn't bad at all, and is the ideal app for a great many people - BUT, there are plenty of things a musician could legitimately want that it doesn't do.

Re:ardour? (1)

Pecisk (688001) | about 10 years ago | (#9736786)

Ardour is more Pro Tools, sound tweaking tool, as MusE is full audio/midi sequencer. I guess in future Ardour and MusE could be in battle for good meaning, but Ardour is more really for sound tweakage. I'm really getting more and more excited about Linux pro audio, as I have Ice1712 based (ALSA drivers fully support this cipset) sound card from Terratec EWS88MT. It rocks. And Jack and Ardour shows big improvements. Of coarse, there are still long road ahead for fully user friendly Linux audio studio which could be used for low and medium level pro audio studios, but it's getting there. And it WILL get there.

yah but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736641)

it might seem pedantic but the thing is still hideous.. which sounds like a minor complaint but theres a reason cubase et al keep goin throught redesign.

it might work great, but if u cant use it its still worthless

va larIE/robbIE to tell it all? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736653)

don't hold your breadth on that won?

still, keep it simple, don't ask about the monIE, gnu online dating, or the moon/mars/bars shots.

tell 'em robbIE?

Pushing for multimedia power in Linux (4, Insightful)

Zorilla (791636) | about 10 years ago | (#9736654)

We can all troll that Linux still has trouble supporting sound, decent system-wide hardware MIDI beyond KDE's aRTs MIDI (or a really nice software wavetable synth like WinGroove's), more-than-2 channel support for sound, and difficulties playing DVDs and WMV9 systems (which still seems impossible for the video portion even if the WMA2 stream plays), but I think this could be a push for improvements to all of the above.

(Wow, that was just one sentence)

Re:Pushing for multimedia power in Linux (2, Insightful)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | about 10 years ago | (#9736718)

I'm happy to troll about it, I spent 2 days trying to get my soundcard working in Linux and eventually gave up and switched to the onboard sound chip, which breaks every other kernel release.

Re:Pushing for multimedia power in Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736789)

Watching a DVD of Star Wars Ep2 in Linux with 5.1 surround rips through most of your arguments pretty quickly.

Indeed it's hard to comprehend how, if you're right, I could have sat playing with a USB MIDI portbox and a Linux (ALSA) system, happily recording 8 channels of external synths through a decidedly pro-audio RME card and a semi-pro desk - a year or more ago now. That doesn't seem to jive with your concept of the "trouble" with Linux multimedia.

OTOH the Mac freaks here will doubtless react with uncontrollable rage to my next observation...

when I plugged the USB MIDI portbox into an iMac, it took 2 hours (including downloading 3rd party add-ons) to get the thing to sort-of work, and even then I couldn't do some of the fancy MIDI routing tricks which worked straight out of the box in Linux.

What's that? Mac OS has since caught up with Linux on this? That's nice, welcome to the multimedia party, don't forget to hand in your superiority at the door.

muse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736682)

This new release just goes to show that soulless is everywhere.

(if you dont get the joke, search for "soulless muse" on google or something)

Linux + Guitar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736695)

Well, I took a look at the feature list (http://lmuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/New_F eatures [sourceforge.net] ), and it looks pretty impressive. I'm new to home recording in general, so not all the terms were familiar to me.

Muse doesn't look like it can provide everything I need in one package, however. I play guitar, and have been looking at windows software packages such as Cubase. In addition to the audio/MIDI editing stuff that Muse now has, I'm looking for some decent guitar-oriented analog effects. Does anyone know if there's a linux package that does meets this need?

Also, for the couple dozen linux guitarists that are out there: what does everyone out there use to reduce hiss in the incoming guitar signal? For that matter, is anyone doing anything more exotic than just running the guitar cable to your soundcard's line in?

Re:Linux + Guitar (3, Informative)

ptaff (165113) | about 10 years ago | (#9736735)

In addition to the audio/MIDI editing stuff that Muse now has, I'm looking for some decent guitar-oriented analog effects
This would have to be pipelined in Jack. As you'd put your pedals between your guitar and your amp, you'd put a software soundeffect program between the input source and MusE, via Jack. One of the available pipeline filters is JACK Rack [arb.bash.sh] , which does what you want.

Re:Linux + Guitar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736799)

Depends on what your hiss is from. If you standing in front of your CRT without noiseless pickups, your going to get some real nice buzzing. Get yourself some decent noiseless pickups (checkout www.billlawrence.com), or replace that CRT with an LCD.

Is for sending the guitar into the computer, I use a Behringer ULTRA-G direct box connected to my mixing board, then into the sound card.. Gives the computer a decent signal...

For fun, checkout Native Instruments Guitar Rig.. Thats a sweet piece of software...

For Windows-based home recording, checkout www.ntrack.com. Much cheaper than Cubase, much easier to learn, and it just works!

Good luck!

Re:Linux + Guitar (2, Informative)

ScottGant (642590) | about 10 years ago | (#9736867)

Also, for the couple dozen linux guitarists that are out there: what does everyone out there use to reduce hiss in the incoming guitar signal?

I'm a traditionalist and just mic it off my Twin Reverb and I'm really not standing anywhere near my monitor when I'm playing anyway. But then again, I'm usually playing the LP which has the buckers on it so there is no hum....but when I strap the Tele on I practically have to stand in the next room. But you can't beat that twang!

As I said, I'm a traditionalist and prefer tube to transistor and analog to digital. I just use digital for recording and mixing. But there are SO many different ways you can skin this cat to make the sound you want it's not even funny. I'm getting more and more into it, little by little because too much will blow my mind. I get side-tracked into tangents that go nowhere and waste time...so I try to keep it as simple as my simple mind can grasp.

can anywon please eXPlain (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736697)

how there is still such a thing as 'software piracIE'?

who would sell that whoreabull nazi krud?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/19/technology/19p ir acy.html

either yikes, or yuk, will do, eye gas? lookout bullow.

Copies of the changelog (3, Informative)

djcapelis (587616) | about 10 years ago | (#9736700)

The slashdot effect is starting on the poor site and the database only allows 32 connections at one time... so I figured it would be best to post a copy of the news summaries that it digs out of the database: .7 and .7-PRE4 don't have much changed in the way of news. .7-PRE3

# Configuration and customization

* Shortcuts for 'arrowing around' in arranger added
* changed default start behaviour to open default.med template
* Lots of new icons ;-)
* A proposal for MusE logo (tell us what you think!)
* Autodetect of browser for help system

# MusE general:

* FluidSynth: added support for drum patches
* MusE now will not start if RTC is not available.
* show one more measure in pianoroll and drum editor
* list editor: implemented input mode for program change messages

# Fixed bugs:

* fixed: pitch bend handling and import fixed
* fixed: 'edit - delete track' hangs MusE - bug
* fixed: routing for stereo LADSPA plugins used in mono strips
* fixed: midi import problems
* auxSend chorusSend and reverbSend enabled in midi mixer strip if corresponding controllers are added
* implemented 'Add New Controller' in list editor / edit controller
* midi controller values now saved in .med file
* updated roland-XP30.idf instrument definition
* And a number of other bugs fixed (and added?)
* Also check the TODO for currently known issues. .7-PRE2

# Custom guis for plugins work again
# Splash screen
# LADCCA/LASH support updated
# Cleaned up shortcuts
# Single key shortcuts for edit tools
# Update marker list on tempo change
# Allow adding markers from the ruler with shift-click
# Metronom now sends proper note off events
# Clip list editor deaktivated
# After loading of template, treat current project as 'untitled'
# Song format changed due to bugfixes
# Shortcuts to bug reporting tool and homepage from help menu
# Updated AboutBox
# Fixed QT version check in m4/qt.m4
# And a number of other bugs
# Check the Changelog for a complete list of changes.
# Also check the TODO for currently known issues.

you guys don't know jack... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736715)

because Muse is Jack-aware, it will do sample accurate synch with other Jack-aware apps such as Ardour. Really cool.

Me alone? (2, Insightful)

ceeam (39911) | about 10 years ago | (#9736728)

Who else has read the title as SusE? This miscapitalization is silly.

Re:Me alone? (1)

wulfhound (614369) | about 10 years ago | (#9736914)

Not to mention, I have a feeling these guys -> www.museresearch.com - (who, by the way, are doing some great work in getting VSTs to run on a custom Linux-based PC) might feel that this infringes on their trademark just a little.

Competition is good (1)

tezza (539307) | about 10 years ago | (#9736738)

This can act as a fomenting gorund for new ideas that don't rely on expensive outlays to get equipment. Some of the best sound coders I ever worked with did their best stuff at 15/16 years old. Where you gonna dig the cash out for the professional stuff??

These youngsters, or just destitute people with a passion need the access to tools such as this. The barrier to entry of closed source and cost prohibits these people from expressing their genius ideas [if any I accept].

So if they code a brilliant idea here, the big players will take that and commercialize it. Stuff like open standards are all helped here.

Keep up the good work!

I've been waiting for MIDI... (3, Informative)

no longer myself (741142) | about 10 years ago | (#9736764)

I've missed messing around with MIDI since I left MS Windows, but this still looks a little too tricky for a convert like me...

~~~ Requirements (paraphrased)
- QT: Qt 3.2.0 or above
- ALSA 0.9.x or newer (cvs)
- gcc 3.x.x
NOTE: you _must_ compile MusE with the same compiler you used to compile QT
- libsndfile 1.0.1 (current 1.0.4)
- Linux kernel with rtc (RealTimeClock) driver (device /dev/rtc)
- JACK
- fluidsynth-1.0.3 (formerly known as iiwusynth)
- of course: a soundcard and/or some midi gear
- (if you compile from cvs:) automake 1.7 and autoconf 2.54
~~~~

I don't even know "JACK", and just looking over these things I'd have to update every single one of these requirements except for the ones I don't even have installed in the first place. I guess I won't be installing this for a while... :-(

Sadly all my boxes have that on-board AC97 audio, and it has no hardware MIDI support at all. Otherwise, ALSA does a great job, and I never needed to configure anything for wave output. Just no MIDI.

(Side note: I never could get things like TiMIDIty to work right either... Guess, I'm just not quite geeky enough... yet.)

Re:I've been waiting for MIDI... (1)

infolib (618234) | about 10 years ago | (#9736898)

Wait till it comes out for your distro. Proprietary software is often written and packaged in the same company and they release nothing until installer etc. etc. is ready. Open source programs are often written and packaged by different persons, and the first person considers the program "released" when the tarball's ready.

Midi really ought to work though - even if you're not "geeky". What distro are you using?

Linux-based studios have existed for quite awhile (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736771)

..in Japan.

Rosegarden (3, Interesting)

javilon (99157) | about 10 years ago | (#9736781)

How does Muse compare to Rosegarden [rosegardenmusic.com] ?

Re:Rosegarden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736822)

muse doesn't have the stink of K desktop all over it.

Re:Rosegarden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9736906)

This is totally subjective, but I find that Rosegarden looks nicer than MusE.

Soundfont support? (1)

crivens (112213) | about 10 years ago | (#9736837)

Yes but does it support loadable and selectable Soundfonts with my SBLive! Value?

VSTi support?? (1)

soliptic (665417) | about 10 years ago | (#9736859)

win32/VST-Instrument support


This is a very, very, very big deal. Does this only apply to VSTis whose manufacturers supply a native linux port (ie, essentially none), or with the wonders of WINE (or similar) can I now run all my favourite gear from Native Instruments, Ohmforce, TC, etc?

Yes, but... (3, Funny)

Ed Avis (5917) | about 10 years ago | (#9736909)

Does it run on SuSE?
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