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291 comments

Teens4Christ,Inc announces port of Dongs to Gentoo (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738766)

#TEENS4CHRIST EXCITES EVERYTHING

#TEENS4CHRIST knows everything. #TEENS4CHRIST spits everything out.

BUT . . . . . . . . .

HAS #TEENS4CHRIST EVER SPOKEN TO YOU:

About Italy? About accordions? About women's pants? About the fatherland? About sardines? About gay niggers? About Art (you exaggerate my friend)? About gentleness? About linux? what a horror? About heroism? About mustaches? About lewdness? About sleeping with Verlaine? About the ideal (it's nice)? About x? About windows? About odors? About os/2 warp 4? About genius? About genius? About genius? About the eight-hour day? About batman touching your junk liberally?

NEVER NEVER NEVER

#TEENS4CHRIST doesn't speak. #TEENS4CHRIST has no fixed idea. #TEENS4CHRIST doesn't catch flies.

THE MINISTRY IS OVERTURNED. BY WHOM? BY #TEENS4CHRIST

The Futurist is dead. Of What? Of #TEENS4CHRIST
A Young girl commits suicide. Because of What? #TEENS4CHRIST
The spirits are telephoned. Who invented it? #TEENS4CHRIST
Someone walks on your feet. It's #TEENS4CHRIST

If you have serious ideas about life,

If you make artistic discoveries and if all of a sudden your head begins to crackle with laughter,
If you find all your ideas useless and ridiculous, know that
IT IS #TEENS4CHRIST BEGINNING TO SPEAK TO YOU

cubism constructs a cathedral of artistic liver paste WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?

expressionism poisons artistic sardines WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
simultaneism is still at its first artistic communion WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
futurism wants to mount in an artistic lyricism-elevator WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
unanism embraces allism and fishes with an artistic line WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
neo-classicism discovers the good deeds of artistic art WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
paroxysm makes a trust of all artistic cheeses WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
ultraism recommends the mixture of these seven artistic things WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?
creationism vorticism imagism also propose some artistic recipes WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?

WHAT DOES #TEENS4CHRIST DO?

$50 reward to the person who finds the best way to explain #TEENS4CHRIST to us

#TEENS4CHRIST passes everything through a new net.
#TEENS4CHRIST is the bitterness which opens its laugh on all that which has been made consecrated forgotten in our language in our brain in our habits.
It says to you: There is Humanity and the lovely idiocies which have made it happy to this advanced age
#TEENS4CHRIST HAS ALWAYS EXISTED
THE HOLY VIRGIN WAS ALREADY IN #TEENS4CHRIST

#TEENS4CHRIST IS NEVER RIGHT


Citizens, comrades, ladies, gentlemen
Beware of forgeries!

Imitators of #TEENS4CHRIST want to present #TEENS4CHRIST in an artistic form which it has never had

CITIZENS,

You are presented today in a pornographic form, a vulgar and baroque spirit which is not the PURE IDIOCY claimed by #TEENS4CHRIST
BUT DOGMATISM AND PRETENTIOUS IMBECILITY

For all information, apply the keys "/join #teens4christ" - irc.efnet.net

Cool (2, Interesting)

AlexanderYoshi (750291) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738789)

How long until I can get Gentoo for my Xbox?

Re:Cool (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738817)

GentooX. Welcome back to 2002.

Re:Cool (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738823)

there already is a distribution for xbox that is based on gentoo.
its called http://gentoox.shallax.com/ [shallax.com]

-Jonathan

Not true (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739246)

Shallax has been kicked off gentoo because he refused to work as part of a team or commit the xbox patches back to gentoo. At this point in time gentoox has nothing to do with gentoo, and he is violating the "gentoo" trademark by using the name.

Re:Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738831)

approx -1.5 years.

Its been out for some time, though i think that it had to seperate itself from the official Gentoo project at Gentoo's request (legalities).

I think you already can (0)

kev82 (526371) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738807)

Somebody at least made portage for other systems, so you only need xbox with linux and if you add portage, you *almost* have gentoo ;)

Re:I think you already can (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739052)

See above..

It's called GentooX. A simple google would have shown that. It's not just LIKE Gentoo, it *is* gentoo.

Yes! Finally! Optimized MacOS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738810)

Doesn't anyone know the right compiler flags? Does O4 work on a Mac?! AWESOME! I'm going to go recompile my Gentoo in celebration of this huge day.

Oh the, err for want of a better word, 'Humanity'! (5, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738996)

Dear God, No!

All idiotic zealtory of Gentoo with all the, well, mindless zealotry of Mac! A winning combination!

Re:Yes! Finally! Optimized MacOS! (5, Funny)

Antihero77 (602539) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739196)

Doesn't anyone know the right compiler flags? Does O4 work on a Mac?! AWESOME! I'm going to go recompile my Gentoo in celebration of this huge day.

See ya in 6 months.

Full Text (images already /.'ed) (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738815)

Gentoo News
-----------

"Apple, we have a problem" - Gentoo MacOS X Released

Figure 1.1: Derived from Apple's 'Redmond, we have a problem' campaign:
The Gentoo MacOS announcement
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn/200 40719_macos_pr oblem.png

Almost exactly one year after the idea of porting Portage to MacOS X came
up - and the joint Metapkg initiative[1] between Fink, Darwinports and
Gentoo took off - a 20-head-strong developer team around Pieter van den
Abeele[2] (strategic lead) and Daniel Ostrow[3] (operational) is now ready
to release an extraordinary beast into the wild: Gentoo MacOS. They
deliver on a promise no other Linux distribution has been daring enough to
make yet: Portage on MacOS is now fully operational, seamlessly integrated
as a package manager in a non-Linux operating system. It initially serves
the main purpose of an SDK for inclusion of new packages, testing and
patching. Granted, KDE isn't ported yet, but make no mistake: Gentoo MacOS
is ready for consumption by Macintosh users who want, say, scientific DTP
via TeX, something they will now be able to simply emerge in OS X just
like they'd do in Gentoo Linux."Right now it's a tool to install lots of
commonly requested applications on OS X", explains Pieter van den Abeele.
"But in a few months, we'll have a port system that builds Darwin from
scratch, provides a standardised lookup and installation routine for
Dashboard widgets[4], enhancements and tools like the Desktop Manager[5]
and many, many more popular OS X applications." Downloading the Gentoo
MacOS Installer provides users with a patched portage, its tree, and the
Python modules. It sets environment variables and demands a bootstrapping
shell script to be run before the first emerge that detects the operating
system (Panther or Tiger), chooses the relevant profiles and injects every
application it finds already installed in MacOS X.

1. http://www.metapkg.org
2. pvdabeel gentoo.org
3. dostrow gentoo.org
4. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html
5. http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/

Figure 1.2: Taming the Tiger with a double-click: The Gentoo MacOS
Installer
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn /20040719_macos_in staller.png

Since Gentoo's own GCC ebuild for MacOS X isn't ready yet, compiling is
currently done using the Xcode development tools[6] which include GCC 3.3
provided by Apple. "People already on Tiger can experiment with GCC 3.5",
adds Pieter. Tiger, the new release of MacOS X, is due in 2005 with its
brandnew database filesystem Spotlight[7], modernised video services and
many other features. The Gentoo MacOS developers are busy polishing the
knobs (a Cocoa user interface is part of the plan), getting iSync[8]
integration to work (emerge an application on one machine, automatically
replicate onto all other Macs in a LAN), right down to making Catalyst
produce Darwin LiveCDs... "But first the cool stuff, then Darwin",
chuckles strategic lead Pieter. Even though his team is already larger
than the entire Gentoo Linux PPC developer group, they still train new
devs almost daily, and whoever wants to help with the project is very
welcome to get in touch. The public Wiki[9] holds installation
instructions and serves as a reporting tool for packages outside of
Portage that already compile without bombing out. The Gentoo MacOS
Installer can be downloaded from here[10].

6. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/xcode.html
7. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlighttech.ht ml
8. http://www.apple.com/isync/
9. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_MacOS
10. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/
Full size (1024x768) screenshots of the Gentoo MacOS installation
procedure:
* Installer starts[11]
* Detection of OS version and installed software[12]
* Still busy injecting detected applications, 'emerge info'[13]
* First 'emerge --pretend --verbose system' on MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger)[14]
* Pulling in and unpacking sources...[15]
* Configuring...[16]
* Compiling...[17]
* Merged![18]
* Modified make.conf to accomodate the alien kernel and userland
environment[19]
11. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/1.png
12. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/2.png
13. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/3.png
14. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/4.png
15. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/5.png
16. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/6.png
17. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/7.png
18. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/8.png
19. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/9.png

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738938)

Its official, open source kicks ass. Becoming more open source friendly is the best thing that has happened to Apple in years. Maybe Microsoft will see all the cool stuff and open up a little too.

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739119)

I thought the w3 browser and its hack of numbering links went out of fashion some time ago.

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739137)

20-head-strong developer team

I think that's a typo. It should be "20 head-strong".

I kid, I kid. I can't wait to try this.

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (0, Troll)

javax (598925) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739354)


boring...

Whats next? portage for OpenBSD? Well at least OpenBSD could make use of a 2nd port system... instead of Darwin getting the 3rd one.
With DarwinPorts [opendarwin.org] and Fink [sf.net] there is already a source based and a binary based system for 3rd party applications.
Wonder what portage could brings us that isn't already there...

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739427)

Duh to the rescue: When Apple, a
  • hardware company
that just happens to provide software to make its products usable, releases a superior piece of software, they say, "Redmond, we have a problem." "Redmond" refers to Microsoft, a
  • software company
. How exactly is software that runs on Apple hardware a problem for Apple? Example: "Dreamweaver competes with GoLive, both of which run on Apple hardware. One may be better than the other. Superior software running on the platform could generate more hardware sales, thus hurting Apple." Cute "sales" pitch, but it don't make-a de sense.

Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (2, Informative)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739495)

Tiger, the new release of MacOS X, is due in 2005 with its brand new database filesystem Spotlight[7], modernised video services and many other features.
It's not a database filesystem. I wrote an entry in my journal on the subject, and I'd quote it here if /. weren't so laggy right now. But Spotlight is just indexing the same metadata that is in HFS+ under Jaguar, plus data that it pulls out of the file, not out of the filesystem. There is significant improvement in the mechanism and the interface, but it is not a "database filesystem."

Comparing WinFS and Spotlight is like comparing .NET and .Mac - Apple is delivering the features that end users will receive from MS's pie in the sky technology, without implementing the actual technology. (And Jobs actually compared WinFS to Spotlight in the keynote, just as he actually compared .NET to .Mac in the keynote that killed iTools.)

No, I'm not dissing Apple and I'm not dissing Microsoft. I'm just saying...

The eternal question (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738837)

But, does it run Linux?

Great.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738862)

I mean it's not like we've had too much choice already with fink, darwinports, i-installer and what not.

That's why the Metapkg Alliance was formed (3, Informative)

Shinzaburo (416221) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738944)

The Metapkg Alliance [metapkg.org] was formed explicitly to improve cooperation between Fink, Gentoo, and DarwinPorts. Besides, have you actually tried Gentoo MacOS yet? Perhaps it offers (or will eventually offer) a significantly large value proposition over the other port distributors. Only time will tell.

OK, so... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738868)

...where do I download the source code for OSX and what flags should I use when I compile?

Re:OK, so... (4, Funny)

doodlelogic (773522) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738992)

where do I download the source code for OSX?
Uhm... here? [apple.com]

Re:OK, so... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739151)

MacOSX != Darwin.

You may be able to get Darwin's source, but good luck getting the rest of MacOSX source. This shouldn't be called Gentoo MacOS its should be called Gentoo Darwin.

At least the MacOS zealots have something to be zealotishious about, Gentoo zealots only have zealotness to be zealotishius about. Obviously.

Re:OK, so... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739008)

I don't think you'll find the GUI API source anywhere. I have been using these switches for a PowerBook G4

-02 -mcpu=7450 -pipe -maltivec -mabi=altivec -mpowerpc-gfxopt -fsigned-char -mstring -mmultiple

I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (5, Interesting)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738875)

how exactly is this a problem for Apple?

Re:I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738964)

Precisely. Surely Apple would strive for innovation of new desktop technology in order to win over Microsoft customers.

Re:I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (2, Interesting)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739021)

or you could run GNU and other open source software on Windows. There's already a Gentoo on Cygwin [toso-digitals.de] project too.

Yea, and? (3, Insightful)

soybean (1120) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738877)

What does this do that fink doesn't already (for the last few years) do?

Re:Yea, and? (5, Funny)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738923)

This one goes to 11.

Re:Yea, and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739153)

Apple has responded by making their 10 the equivelant of Gentoo's 11.

However, as one Gentoo developer pointed out: "this one goes to 11".

Re:Yea, and? (3, Insightful)

justforaday (560408) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739078)

What does this do that fink doesn't already (for the last few years) do?

Well, this one can compile the packages from source. Oh wait, Fink already does that...Yeah, how does this really differ from the Fink project, other than being based on Gentoo's portage system?

Re:Yea, and? (5, Interesting)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739123)

I could well just be missing something, but I've had a lot of problems with the selection granularity in fink -- e.g. trying to build x-chat without dragging in all of GNOME. USE flags would be a very nice alternative.

Re:Yea, and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739161)

What more do you need? Fink tends to be outdated and load all kinds of crap I don't need. It pretty much fails at the purpose of a package manager; avoiding dependency hell. Portage is a very nice system that handles dependencies better and with more customization than apt can.

Re:Yea, and? (1)

for_usenet (550217) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739200)

One thing I am hoping it can do is integrate better with OS X's application/library packing system. I do a little development with X and Motif, and for a while, I was using Apple's X11 + Darwinports' Motif. However, due to library problems somewhere along the way, I had to switch to fink's openmotif. I was hoping for a way I could keep track of all installed apps and libs. Fink is nice, but it is like having a second independent OS/system within OS X.

Now, for the icing on the cake, it would be nice if folks would think about coding the GUIs in their apps in cross-platform toolkits (wxWidgets, FLTK, etc), so we could have truly native apps and hooks into whatever OS we are using, but alas, I dream ... :)

Re:Yea, and? (5, Informative)

Massacrifice (249974) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739208)

I recently moved bask from Gentoo-PPC to Mac OS X + Fink lately after my Linux HD crashed, so I'll tell you what I am missing the most about Gentoo.

First, there are a quite a bunch of advanced build options in Portage that are not available under Fink (see /etc/make.conf). USE variable, easy distcc, easy ccache, powerful package query... These are things that you can't go without once you've tried them.

Fink is nice, but its package tree is smaller and less up to date than Portage is. Besides, nobody will prevent you from having both.

Apart from Portage, Gentoo offers multiple system management facilities. I don't know if these will be ported, but things like rc-update (init script management) and java-config really help.

Finally, I think that what will set Gentoo-MacOS apart from Fink is the number of developper and community size. That is something that cannot be duplicated.

emerge karmawhore (4, Interesting)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738888)

Gentoo is one of the best distros out there. I use it on x86 and it was easy to install and set up. I had more trouble on mandrake than on gentoo. The best thing it has going for it is portage. This system of automatically downloading and compiling software is only appriciated when you've gone through RPM hell or dependency hell when compiling from scratch. I was using mandrake previously, and this is definately faster. I encourage everyone who uses a distro like mandrake, fedora, or SuSE to look into gentoo.

I've only been using linux for a few months and gentoo for a week or so but I already see how well produced it is. I used to get annoyed at gentoo zealots, but I see what they were talking about.

Oh, and the compiling software isn't that bad. I've spent more time searching for packages and dependecies than typing "emerge k3b". Don't believe all the hype of course, but don't believe the FUD either. Gentoo is where it's at!

Now to make this a little more on-topic, I'm happy that gentoo is trying to make more headway into apple hardware. I think that this will only encourage apple to help and contribute to the OSS community even more. MacOS is probably the most refined modern operating system, but giving it a little more competition can't hurt.

Re:emerge karmawhore (1)

torpor (458) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738967)

I think that this will only encourage apple to help and contribute to the OSS community even more.

Maybe after Tiger, we'll see Apple work to include Gentoo portage scripts in the base install ... Gentoo really is a superlative unix-software management system.

Re:emerge karmawhore (4, Funny)

Bold Marauder (673130) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738983)

Personally, on x86 I had far more problems with setting up gentoo (I have to compile a kernel during the installation? how fucked up is that?) than I ever had with using packages under mandrake (particularly when using easy urpmi [urpmi.org].

I mean, different stroke for different folks, certainly. But gentoo's strenth is its' ability to squeeze 0.0008 percent more processing power out of your 2.4ghz computer; not ease of use or installation. That arena is where (imho) mandrake really shines.

Re:emerge karmawhore (5, Interesting)

Joseph Vigneau (514) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739056)

gentoo's strenth is its' ability to squeeze 0.0008 percent more processing power out of your 2.4ghz computer

Actually, that is not Gentoo's primary strength. Its strength is from the amount of flexibility that portage provides for package dependency. With binary-oriented distributions, you are forced to use the same configuration settings that were chosen by the package maintainer. Portage has the concept of "USES", which is basically a list of flags that the build uses to figure out what options to use during compilation. For example, many packages can be integrated with GNOME. I don't use GNOME. With other distributions, if the package was built with GNOME dependencies, I'd be forced to install GNOME. If the package was built without GNOME, some GNOME user wouldn't be able to take advantage of GNOME-specific features. With Portage, you can specify via the USES variable whether or not you want to have a dependancy on GNOME or not. As a side effect, you get the CPU-optimization "for free".

Re:emerge karmawhore (1)

Sesse (5616) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739199)

No, you would not be forced to install GNOME, you would be forced to install a few GNOME libraries, which would occupy a few megabytes and basically not be in your way otherwise. That is not really a big problem unless you make it one.

/* Steinar */

Re:emerge karmawhore (2, Informative)

Mr.Ned (79679) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739417)

While in a binary distribution you are forced to use the ./configure settings of the maintainer, that's not always incompatible with compartmentalizing part of software. For example, on Debian, if I look at postfix packages, I see this:

postfix - A high-performance mail transport agent
postfix-dev - Postfix loadable modules development environment
postfix-doc - Postfix documentation
postfix-ldap - LDAP map support for Postfix
postfix-mysql - MYSQL map support for Postfix
postfix-pcre - PCRE map support for Postfix
postfix-pgsql - PGSQL map support for Postfix
postfix-tls - TLS and SASL support for Postfix

In Gentoo I would put LDAP, MYSQL, POSTGRES, or something similar in my USE flags. I can accomplish the same thing with binary packages if they are properly made, as in the example of postfix - if I want to add LDAP support, I can just install that. The same thing goes for desktop packages - there are quite a few -gnome packages in the Debian archives, and I'm sure you'd find the same thing for Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, or any of the others.

It's just a different approach to the same concept. Don't knock binary distributions as inflexible.

Re:emerge karmawhore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739091)

No, you don't have to compile the kernel during installation if you don't want to. You can pick out a pre-compiled kernel and base system if you want. They have many to chose from.

Re:emerge karmawhore (5, Interesting)

bob670 (645306) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739104)

I'm going to agree with you on all points. I bought a Shuttle SK41G, GeForce4, Athlon XP 2000+ and 2x256 DDR a few weeks ago. From out of the box, assembly time and then OS install was about one hour 15 minutes with all hardware recognized correctly, all updates installed and a usable desktop, office suite, Internet tools, etc... A quick install of the nVidia driver updates and some extra software gooodness via urpmi and I was off and running in about 90 minutes.

Compared to a couple days to get the same results with Gentoo, which is an outstanding distro, but not the distro to break Linux onto the mainstream desktop. Any casual PC user who has built a gaming PC or even tinkered around with his Dell could get Mandrake up and usable in less than an hour, Gentoo however is another story. Of course Gentoo wasn't aimed at that market, but the parent poster can't possibly paint Gentoo as easy to install and not expect some rebuttals.

Re:emerge karmawhore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739247)

s/Parent/grand\ parent

Re:emerge karmawhore (2, Interesting)

Zapdos (70654) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739252)

How f..cked up is mandrake in order to install sdl-dev i have to install arts-dev wich of course needs kde-libs-dev etc.. etc..
Now does sdl really need arts? Nope it was a packaging decision made for you by Mandrake. In order to feed the need of the unwashed masses that is what they have to do.

Gentoo's strengths are many:
1. Better optimizations
2. USE statements allow you to fine tune your system libraries
3. Upgrades to the latest version is as simple as using emerge.
4. etc...

Re:emerge karmawhore (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739294)

Personally, on x86 I had far more problems with setting up gentoo (I have to compile a kernel during the installation? how fucked up is that?) than I ever had with using packages under mandrake (particularly when using easy urpmi.

That's true, but once the installation is done, I've found maintaining Gentoo software and services far easier than maintenance on Mandrake. YMMV, but I've never had good luck with any of the RPM-based systems. The speed issues are what everyone associates with Gentoo, but that's mostly illusory.

Yes, Gentoo is nice, but this isn't exactly.... (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739174)

..putting Gentoo on "Mac hardware" - it's putting portions of portage on MacOS. There's a difference there - it probably won't help the Linux community any.

I do like Gentoo, and I use it. There's nothing like installing almost any software I want with a two word command line. And if you're a GUI fan, kportage works great too.

Truthfully, I don't have the time to maintain my three home Linux boxes full time. Meaning, I can't always be re-installing them or upgrading them to the latest version of Fedora, or Mandrake, or Debian, just because I want to install xyz software which requires abc library which can only be found on the new release. With Gentoo, I basically say "go." And it does the rest.

I've only had a small few issues with Gentoo, mostly because of major changes in gcc or what-not. These issues would have you buried in the stink for a long time on another distribution, but not on Gentoo. Just recompile the necessary packages and be on your way.

I use Gentoo because I'm lazy.

Re:emerge karmawhore (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739186)

As an experienced linux user (circa 1997) -- when you were still in diapars -- I say Gentoo users are riceboys. After all the hell I've gone through with the earlier distros, writing my own device drivers, etc., there is one thing that becomes clear:

Compiling everything will take more time than you will ever save by adding a few optimizations!

Sorry, but my time is valuable, so I'll stick with real distributions like Debian or Fedora.

Re:emerge karmawhore (1)

kashani (2011) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739422)

circa 1996 here. Gentoo is not without minor pain on the install, but it's hardly a time waster. Use GRP which includes precompiled packages, add a few use variables, add the packages you need (postfix, apache, mysql, etc) come back in an hour, and you're done. And it stays that way going forward. It's not like you have to sit there and stare at it while compiles.

Figuring out how to use Redhat's moronic RPM syntax, now that's a time waste.
echo "/dev-php/mod_php oracle" >> /etc/portage/package.use
emerge mod_php
and reading slashdot while it compiles is not.

kashani

Re:emerge karmawhore (5, Funny)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739428)

Compiling everything will take more time than you will ever save by adding a few optimizations!

Sorry, but my time is valuable

Your time is valuable, but the computer's time is not. I recommend you use a program called "gcc" to compile, instead of manually translating C into machine language by hand. What this will allow you to do, is have the computer do all this compiling work, while you can do anything you want (write a program, sleep, watch a movie, drink beer, hang out under the escalator at the mall and try to look up girls' dresses, send radio messages to the UFOs to try to get them to return Elvis -- almost anything!), without it taking any of your time.

Linux has changed a lot since 1957. I'm tellin' ya, these fully automated compilers are the shit!!

Re:emerge karmawhore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739439)

Gentoo is about choice. You don't have to compile everything if you don't want to. They have installable binaries too.

Re:emerge karmawhore (0, Offtopic)

javax (598925) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739433)

Gentoo seems to be for people to play around with Linux (which can be good), but if you prefer to work on your Linux workstation, I'd recommend either Debian or Redhat. The bleeding edge aint a good choice if you want stability.
The Gentoo users I know are like wow, 214% faster, cause I compiled dhcpd myself, optimized for my P4! and sometimes like rats, I hosed my productive system with the kernel update again!

Fink? (0, Redundant)

cortez (316233) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738928)

Isn't this need already fulfilled by fink? I mean, you can already build from source, the software still needs to be ported to be used by gentoo, etc etc.

Although I did see one interesting thing about gentoo mac os: future versions will be able to install "regular" apps, which is cool.

Re:Fink? (5, Informative)

Shinzaburo (416221) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739043)

Gentoo MacOS brings the Gentoo Portage package management system to Mac OS X. Yes, it provides functionality similar to Fink and DarwinPorts, and all three solutions have agreed to cooperate [metapkg.org] in the future.

Portage seems to have several advantages over the other package management tools, including the following summary from the Portage manual [gentoo.org]:
Multiple versions and revisions of the same package in the tree, conditional dependency resolution and feature support, fine-grained package management, sandboxed safe installation, configuration file protection, profiles, and much more.

Gentoo MacOS? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738930)

um, isn't that 'Gentoo MacOS' a tad misleading? It's like calling x86 Linux 'Linux Windows'

Re:Gentoo MacOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738941)

It's more like calling Cygwin "Linux Windows." This is a tool for OS X, NOT Linux Gentoo, baka.

Re:Gentoo MacOS? (5, Informative)

Noksagt (69097) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738971)

um, isn't that 'Gentoo MacOS' a tad misleading? It's like calling x86 Linux 'Linux Windows'
No--this isn't an OS (gentoo has run on the Mac hardware for sometime). Rather it is a native OS X port of portage and other gentoo utilities. It would be like calling cygwin "cygwin" (in other words Cygnus + GNU on windows).

Re:Gentoo MacOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739166)

They didn't post the name correctly. It's called Gentoo MacOS X according to the link. Or if you're making reference to the idea that gentoo is an operating system---it's not. It's just a software distribution that sometimes includes a kernel (but not in this case). In the future for the Mac, it looks like they're going to include the Darwin/4.4BSD/Mach3/whatever kernel instead of the Linux kernel, which sounds like a very interesting alternative way to update, modify, and configure the OS. Apple should consider getting in on this one.

Re:Gentoo MacOS? (1)

raddan (519638) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739296)

Well, considering that the only important difference between Gentoo, and, say, Slackware, is the fact that Gentoo has the Portage package management system, I'd say no. Although I would have preferred something more along the lines of "Portage MacOS".

Re:Gentoo MacOS? (2, Informative)

keesh (202812) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739343)

Not really. Gentoo isn't limited to Linux -- the Gentoo/Linux name was dropped a long time ago. There're ports underway for *BSD, OSX and possibly IRIX.

Am I missing something? (3, Interesting)

Moofie (22272) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738934)

I read that blurb, and I still don't know what the significance of this release is.

"Right now, you can use it to install TeX! Someday, you might be able to install some other stuff!"

I mean, I suppose this is kool and the gang, but what is the problem that is being solved here? Maybe I'm just not clear on the concept.

In case you don't get it. (5, Interesting)

torpor (458) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738935)


This means (sorta, as in 'soon') that a Mac-user will be able to rebuild their own OSX box, using the Gentoo scripts, and still be able to maintain compatability with all OSX apps.

In other words, a 'better build system: a public one' has been unleashed on a commercial operating system, so that - separate from the company itself - alternative builds of the OS can be done, publically.

Why is this good? Because with Gentoo you can take personal risks that Apple can't. Gentoo allows you to build a system "Just for You", whereas Apple have to compile/link things "For Everyone".

Expect to see highly-tuned Gentoo boxes running GentooMacOS in the future, smokin' 'Factory OS' setups. I'll be digging into this a bit further, next point release sort of thing, and if I get the same results out of applying Gentoo to my OSX machine as I have with my Linux boxes, I'm excited. I may man I can put off a hardware upgrade or two and just 'Take Things To The Next Level' on my aging Powerbook...

Oh, and in case you think Apple should be 'worried about' this, it seems to me that they already get the point. With all the OS releases they've been doing lately, and the upgrades/improvements in the one area 'open source' is lacking: usability, and it seems to me that they're positioned well to be 'competing with the Open Source Base' ... but thats just my personal opinion.

Re:In case you don't get it. (3, Informative)

mikrorechner (621077) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739070)

In other words, a 'better build system: a public one' has been unleashed on a commercial operating system, so that - separate from the company itself - alternative builds of the OS can be done, publically.
I think you forgot that while the source for Darwin, the system "under the hood" of OS X, is available, the UI is not. That means no Quartz, Spotlight or Core Image technologies, and no applications like the Finder or Expose.

Now, who would want a Mac without all this? That stuff, among other, makes it special. If you want only the underlying system, you can install OpenBSD right now.

Re:In case you don't get it. (3, Interesting)

torpor (458) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739135)


You can still -RUN- all that stuff, its just that Gentoo will let you fine-tune all the goodness (kernel, system /bin's, /usr/bin's, etc) even further, around it, and yet still maintain a fully working properly configured system.

This one really does go up to 11.

And since its Open Source, Apple can instantly turn around, and start using it themselves.

Its not "Apple, we have a problem.", its "Apple, we have source."

They (Apple) certainly get the point...

I don't think you get it (4, Insightful)

Shinzaburo (416221) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739140)

I don't think the parent poster "forgot" that the Mac OS X UI source isn't available for custom compiles. That's not what Gentoo MacOS is about -- it's about being able to easily install and update popular *nix software on Mac OS X.

Who would want a Mac without Quartz, Spotlight, etc? I certainly wouldn't give up these features. But some people might want to use alternate desktop managers on Apple hardware. Just because you're not interested in doing so doesn't mean there is no reason for others to want to.

Besides, you don't necessarily have to forgo the Finder and Exposé to use Gentoo MacOS. It's a package manager, and as such can install a bunch of *nix tools that work alongside Mac OS X without replacing it.

Re:In case you don't get it. (0, Troll)

SphericalCrusher (739397) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739145)

Yeah, I don't feel that Apple should be worried -- after all, they are still using hardware from them. It just makes you think though... what's going to happen when other major distributions port to Mac? I'd like to see what SuSE or Slackeware would look like on a PowerMac G5! Could this be a second life for Linux?

I know this wasn't the first version of Linux on the Mac. What was the one before this? A version of Yellow Dog?

Re:In case you don't get it. (1)

Eravau (12435) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739498)

  • MkLinux was probably the first Linux for the Mac. That lived and died before the G3 came into existence.
  • LinuxPPC was the next up to bat...and was basically Red Hat for the PPC.
  • Yellow Dog is probably the current most popular Linux for PPC processors.
  • Mandrake and Gentoo are also in the game, but relative newcomers.

make sense? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9738956)

So someone is going to buy a $3,000 computer and put Linux on it?

Get real.

Re:make sense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739187)

Why, yes! But the laptop didn't cost anywhere near $3k

My Only Question (4, Interesting)

tunabomber (259585) | more than 8 years ago | (#9738965)

Will it handle the X11 dependency gracefully? I spent many, many hours trying to get Fink [sourceforge.net] either to recognize that I had XFree86 installed as a binary or to compile it from source without getting errors all over the place. I'm not a newbie to package managers like apt and ports, but despite this I eventually ended up giving up trying to install X11 apps with Fink because I just didn't have the time to spend trying to get it to work properly. As a result, I am now using Quicken instead of GNUCash.

Re:My Only Question (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739068)

Have to say that fink's never given me trouble with X11 apps..

I install Apple's X11 via drag/drop (Or, in the case of Panther, during the original OS installation).. then install fink.. "fink install rxvt" is no problem. If GTK+ or something is needed, that gets installed as well.

Just has been my experience, as I remember. Might have trouble if X11 was installed via a different method.

Resistance is Futile (2, Interesting)

Locarius (798304) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739018)

...all your base are belongs to gentoo I can not say enough good things about the direction this Distro is going. Future of Linux, or the future of all OS's?

Re:Resistance is Futile (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739120)

Keep dreaming. How many users do you think will switch to Linux on their Macs?

Re:Resistance is Futile (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739332)

Just the smart ones... on second thought, none.

Re:Resistance is Futile (0, Redundant)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739183)

"emerge openoffice" took 26 hours to complete on a Celeron 2.0ghz. Granted, it failed for no good reason halfway through the first time (a mirror went down and the braindead ebuild just stopped), but even if it hadn't it would have been a good 10 hours at best.

Of course, this is not including the day it took for "emerge kde" to get me a desktop.

Sticking in the MS Office CD (Only need the first for the basics, Word, Access, Excel) and installing takes 10 minutes.

There's other stuff I've never been able to figure out with gentoo. How do I install just the ldap clients, without the openldap servers? Building by source you'd put a .configure flag like --without-slapd and --without-slurpd, but I haven't been able to figure out how to get gentoo to do this. I auth against ldap, and building slapd and slurpd is about another half hour of compile time I don't need.

I still don't have any sound as a non-root user, and can't find any good reason for it.

Gentoo is not the future, at least surely not for desktop OS's. Compiling everything from source sucks ass.

Yes now you can have a bastarized OS (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739114)

Rather then run perfectly good Linux distro or a perfectly good Mac OSX setup on your mack you can have a bastard cross between the two that will probably be badly broken and fully of weird library problems and strange bugs. You can take your darwin binaries from apple and rebuild them from source then use your other binary software from apple that you can't rebuild because you don't have the source and watch for the random segfults. Then you can install all your favorite linux apps and have them be hopeless crippled because you can't meet the deps for the cool features. The icing on the cake is you can use all sorts of X11 apps and enjoy the overhead of running not one of two perfectly good GUI servers but two of them! Yea I see lots of users willing to give up the best elements of both world so they can fully experience the mediocrity of each at the same time.

I love using both well put together linux distros and MAC OS X. If I bought a MAC I am really not sure which OS I would run on it but one thing I am sure if is I really don;t want to try and run both, other then perhaps in a dual boot config or something.

So now... (0, Redundant)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739133)

it's not saying "Oh btw, I run Gentoo on my workstation." that makes you cool, but "Oh btw, I run MacOS X on my workstation."

Oh, wait...

Let's get it straight... (-1, Flamebait)

KZigurs (638781) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739176)

I DON'T want linux software, ease of use and user friendliness on my Mac box. God save me from this! (and take care of the Queen as well, please) I WAN'T MacOS software, it's user friendliness, simplicity, consistency and excelent graphical core with all that eye candy on my x86 machine. Without a loss of speed. Clear enough? Please, oh please, don't ruin jet another excellent operating system.

Re:Let's get it straight... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739308)

..." I DON'T want linux software..."

Is someone twisting your arm to install OSS stuff?

Re:Let's get it straight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739468)

I DON'T want linux software, ease of use and user friendliness on my Mac box. God save me from this! (and take care of the Queen as well, please) I WAN'T MacOS software, it's user friendliness, simplicity, consistency and excelent graphical core with all that eye candy on my x86 machine. Without a loss of speed. Clear enough?
Oh, it's clear enough, all right... clear that you need to lay down the crack pipe. If you want Mac OS X and all the benefits it provides, why not just use your Mac box? Hock the x86 box for whatever you can get for it and then buy a dual-processor Power Mac G5. That will give you all the speed you want and more.

Would it be nice if you could get all the Mac OS X goodness on x86 hardware? Yes. Is it going to happen? Probably not, so quit whining about it.

Apple Legal (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739178)

Lock and load Apple legal team.

how's its hygiene? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739273)

One of the most awesomeliest things about Fink is that it installs everything in root /sw, no exceptions (i.e. /sw/bin, /sw/usr/lib, etc). That means you don't have to worry about contaminating the Apple-controlled parts of the OS, and uninstalling all customizations is just a matter of trashing /sw. I would never even think of installing anything in /usr or /usr/local (because it "belongs" to Apple).

Does Gentoo MacOS do the same thing? If not, why not????

Re:how's its hygiene? (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 8 years ago | (#9739415)

"I would never even think of installing anything in [...] /usr/local (because it "belongs" to Apple)"

Do what? /usr/local is mine, all mine, as _I'm_ the sysadmin on this machine. If OSX touches /usr/local, then Apple are a pretty crap bunch of bodgers. Can anyone verify?

FP.

G5? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#9739328)

What's the best Linux distro for the G5?
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