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Using P2P To Make Gov't Documents Easy To Find

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the whaddya-mean-for-once? dept.

United States 171

Trinition writes "Kim Zetter wrote for Wired News that "While legislators in Washington work to outlaw peer-to-peer networks, one website is turning the peer-to-peer technology back on Washington to expose its inner, secretive workings." For once, we have a concrete example to point to when citing the merits of P2P."

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CORY DOCTORCOW AM TEH FAGORT | BOINGBOING = GHEY (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747077)

Hrm... (5, Insightful)

canwaf (240401) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747078)

Wouldn't "exposing secretive inner workings" make the US government want to shut down p2p even more?

Re:Hrm... (4, Insightful)

Erpo (237853) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747126)

Wouldn't "exposing secretive inner workings" make the US government want to shut down p2p even more?

Of course, but it's a lot easier for your elected representative to read "We're legislating against p2p networks to stop criminals from stealing music," off of a 3x5 card given to them by the RIAA than it is to say, "Here in D.C. we're doing things we're afraid you might find out about."

Re:Hrm... (2, Interesting)

Evil Adrian (253301) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747596)

Um, why can't you just post stuff to a web site? Why do you need p2p to post documents?

Re:Hrm... (5, Insightful)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747739)

because that web site can be taken down.

because it can be altered.

we have seen many, many examples of the U.S. gov't altering published data to support political motivation.

using p2p, where there is -no one single point of control- would actually be a far more Democracy-supporting protocol than FTP or HTTP, both of which are like the "fascist dicatorships of transfer protocols"...

Re:Hrm... (1)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748088)

we have seen many, many examples of the U.S. gov't altering published data to support political motivation.

Name one instance where a private party altered its website against its wishes due to the U.S. Gov't for political reasons.

Re:Hrm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9748436)

Isn't that like saying "Name one instance where an individual has been dissapeared?" It certainly happens, but by it's very nature it's pretty damn difficult to prove.

Re:Hrm... (1)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747831)

You don't. It sounds like a horrible idea - multiple versions of multiple documents in the wild.

CVS sounds like a much better idea.

That's Why It Won't Work (1)

Mad Bad Rabbit (539142) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748336)

It sounds like a horrible idea - multiple versions of multiple documents in the wild.

Re:That's Why It Won't Work (1)

Mad Bad Rabbit (539142) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748428)

Sorry -- post seems to have submitted itself before I
wrote anything (bug in new slashcode?). Anyway:

Governments could trivially discredit such a channel,
by having a few Winston Smyths constantly generate fake
(and easily disproven) leaked documents. Articles found
on P2P nets would soon have about as much credibility as
random articles posted to "alt.kooks.tinfoil".

Re:Hrm... (1)

darkonc (47285) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747304)

Hell, this site could possibly be the real reason why they're looking at putting this law in place! They might be tired of brown-noseing the music industry, but stopping something like this might be enough to get them going again.

Hopefully, we can get the courts to strike down this law as banning a type of speech.

Re:Hrm... (0)

Otter (3800) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747430)

Wouldn't "exposing secretive inner workings" make the US government want to shut down p2p even more?

No, in the sense that nothing "secret" is actually being exposed here. Yes, in that in that tying yet another juvenile bit of Sticking It To The Man posturing to P2P certainly reinforces the stereotypes about the technology.

In fact, that seems to be exactly what's going on here, as FTP or HTTP would be a far more sensible way of doing this.

Ok... (3, Interesting)

nuclear305 (674185) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747083)

"For once, we have a concrete example to point to when citing the merits of P2P."

Maybe, but this also gives the government one more reason as to why P2P is evil and should be banned, don't you think?

Re:Ok... (1)

hookedup (630460) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747151)

Exaclty what I thought, this gives the anti-p2p crowd some more ammo to use when trying to get legislation passed..

Re:Ok... (1)

dave1791 (315728) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747230)

It does not give ammo; quite the opposite, but it would still give politicos MORE reason to want to do away with p2p. They are not going to say, "we don't like you trading government documents that are supposed to be public domain anyway". That won't cut it, at least in public. But I think this could make it more fashonable to talk about the evils of downloading music and that those pirate netweoks should be closed.

Re:Ok... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747231)

nathan, i just looked at your comment history, you dont seem a fly by night troll so I'm gonna send you a gmail invite :)

hope I get the right addy tho.... (dont like unmunging)

Re:Ok... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747276)

thank you good sir! I'll have to check that account when I get home, no pop3 at work..

Re:Ok... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747649)

I'm not THAT anonymous, you will find out who I am later on lol.

Glad to cheer you up though.

Re:Ok... (2, Insightful)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747774)

it also exposes their intentions... if p2p is proven to be an effective, democratic process for publishing government documents, and yet some right-wing republican fascist attack squad tries to pass a bill that outlaws all p2p use, forever (lest the terrorists attack), then it really truly exposes the intention of that party to confuscate and continue to keep government from answering for its responsibility to The People.

quick, everyone, get behind this effort to p2p'ize gov't documents and the public record. to fail to do so would be to let the Terrorist-Haters win...

Re:Ok... (3, Insightful)

fuzzix (700457) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747239)

I don't think "For once" is a fair phrase myself. I have been using peer-to-peer technology for a few years now legitimately.

I use bittorrent to download Linux ISOs. I use ED2K to get community films and videos (Like the Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years [google.com] for example.) Even my home network could be described as peer to peer as I have no server for 4 client machines.

All legitimate uses, no "For once" required.

Re:Ok... (2, Informative)

TyrranzzX (617713) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747457)

Peer to peer networks often remind me of one of my favorite bible verses (hey, it may be corny but :P);

"Rev.6: 2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him and he went forth conquering and to conquer. "

That verse reminds me of peer to peer networks because the white horse represents truth and purity and that truth goes forth and conquers unstoppably; once a file hits a peer to peer network, and a few people find out and begin telling their friends, there's no stopping it. I put out an image file that was named to spread a year ago, and stopped sharing it about 4 or so months ago; it's still on gnutella on around 500 hosts last I checked. Just look at what happened to diebold's emails, heh. You can STILL find them on gnutella.

Once a government file hits the network, and it gets posted in a news story, you can kiss your control of that information goodbye. The entertaining part is that the governemnts can't stop it; isp's have tried, colleges have tried, I'v even seen powerpoints of companies that want to stop p2p traffic on their network but can't and try to talk it over with their people to find a way to do so.

Re:Ok... (2, Insightful)

adam mcmaster (697132) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748047)

Maybe, but this also gives the government one more reason as to why P2P is evil and should be banned, don't you think?

Exactly, how long do you think it'll be before we hear about 'terrorists' trading secret government documents over P2P?

Re:Ok... (2, Funny)

Oddly_Drac (625066) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748370)

"Maybe, but this also gives the government one more reason as to why P2P is evil and should be banned, don't you think?"

Yeah, time to finally close down that 'freedom of speech' loophole that the fags and pinkos have been hiding behind all these years.

I'll bet Bush. (0, Flamebait)

solarmist (313127) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747093)

If Bush ever finds this website I'll bet he has the Department of Homeland Security shut it down on the grounds that terrorists could possibly thinking about consider using it for terrorism.

Re:I'll bet Bush. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747738)

you're an idiot

Bittorrent (2, Interesting)

kyhwana (18093) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747100)

Hmm, there's no bittorrent tracker/seed.
Does anyone have a tracker/.torrent of all the stuff? Or would be willing to host one..

Not so much secret as hard to find (5, Informative)

Mant (578427) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747106)

The site doesn't actually link to anything secret, it is all available to the public. What it does do is make it very easy to find, particulalry compared to getting this stuff of government websites.

Re:Not so much secret as hard to find (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747234)

Isn't it easier to get stuff from, say, www.Cryptome.org?

What does it matter...? (4, Informative)

Glock27 (446276) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747110)

When the government can use reasons like this [msn.com] to avoid releasing the data in the first place.

The mind boggles...

By the way, isn't this type of thing the raison d'etre for Freenet - how many Freenet nodes are up these days? Any DHS visits to Freenet node operators/sites?

Re:What does it matter...? (4, Funny)

Bendy Chief (633679) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747353)

Sounds to me like the agency was doing its job admirably when it wrote that database:

"This database will self-destruct in five seconds..."

Mr. Phelps would be proud.

Typical US overly high-tech solution... (4, Funny)

iapetus (24050) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747113)

Over here in the UK, the government uses the more reliable low-tech approach of real paper documents available from laybys [bbc.co.uk] to spread information about its secret inner workings.

National security vs. P2P. (4, Interesting)

Confused (34234) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747118)

I'm certain, that as soon as the first secret or confidential documents appear on the network, this will be used as pretext to apply all kind of national security and anti-terrorist laws to the network.

Then we'll see, how anonymous, secure and resilient the P2P-network really is.

As a whole, the concept is interesting, as much as watching mice baiting a cat.

Re:National security vs. P2P. (2, Insightful)

mwood (25379) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747527)

"Pretext?" As in, "I'm certain that as soon as someone drags a passerby into an alley and whacks him in the head with a brick, this will be used as a pretext to apply all kinds of anti-mugging laws to the city streets?"

As in, "as soon as somebody uses the network to commit a crime, the police will feel moved to enforce the laws they swore to uphold?"

Re:National security vs. P2P. (2, Insightful)

Steve B (42864) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747720)

Er, no, more in the sense of "as soon as some criminal finds it easier to commit armed robbery with a gun rather than a knife, people will use it as a pretext for more gun control".

The basic issue is that laws directed at inanimate objects rather than at specific behavior are generally a bad idea.

Re:National security vs. P2P. (1)

mwood (25379) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748161)

I see what you mean. Some of our hired help in D.C. are lazy and want to just ban the tools rather than train people to use them responsibly. Fortunately a number of contracts are expiring and there's a job fair coming up in November. :-]

Re:National security vs. P2P. (1)

Atzanteol (99067) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748287)

The basic issue is that laws directed at inanimate objects rather than at specific behavior are generally a bad idea.

Like the way you put that. Sums up many bad laws very nicely. "But *I* didn't kill anybody, the *gun* did!"

Re:National security vs. P2P. (1)

StressedEd (308123) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748752)

the *gun* did!

The bullet surely? Maybe that's it. Don't ban guns, ban bullets! Genius!!! :-/

um... (4, Insightful)

AmaDaden (794446) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747123)

" For once, we have a concrete example to point to when citing the merits of P2P."

Um...What about Bittorrent? Last time I checked it was the best way to download large files like Linux distros. Plus it makes it better to have more people downloading not worse, a big problem for huge servers with popular files. I can remember it taking FOREVER to get my first fresh Linux dostro downloaded

Re:um... (3, Funny)

po_boy (69692) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748045)

...my first fresh Linux dostro downloaded

It was bound to happen sooner or later. Another "i" in "distribution" finally succumbed to the temptation of becoming an "o". I knew that once "distri" became "distro" we were on a slippery slope to destruction. Pretty soon, all we'll have left are "dostrobutoons". Mark this day.

Attract the wrong kind of attention... (3, Funny)

syrinje (781614) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747132)

Having gone through a gifted infancy, a troubled toddlerdom and an uncertain childhood, p2p is now officially adolescent. The kind of testosterone-driven head-butting that this represents cannot be accounted for in any other way. This is a case of nose-thumbing while jumping up and down screaming "I dare ya, nyaah na na nyaah na" to a Confirmed Texan(TM) who roams a mean praire...

I am guessing this is one site that will have reason to be thankful for being ./ed.

Re:Attract the wrong kind of attention... (1)

untaken_name (660789) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747194)

It's amazing that all of you people think Bush is somehow sitting around in the White House in a ten-gallon hat and Deputy Dawg underoos scheming to take out your favorite thing. It's just not likely, people. I doubt President Bush thinks about or cares about P2P programs these days. You know, what with tiny things like war and re-election campaigns and stuff, I'm sure he has time to make it harder for you to get Brittney Aguilerra mp3s. (Don't bother correcting me on the name I used. That's my generic term for shitpop.)

flaw (4, Interesting)

MarsDude (74832) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747149)

If people download these documents from kazaa or some other p2p network, who is to tell if the information in these documents hasn't been tampered with ? For fun or evil...

You can get weird stories into this world this way.

Re:flaw (3, Informative)

alex_ware (783764) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747193)

with bittorent an MD5 sum of the file is held on each peer and if one doesnt add up he is a bad peer stoping tampering

Re:flaw (1)

Simon (S2) (600188) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747199)

If people download these documents from kazaa or some other p2p network, who is to tell if the information in these documents hasn't been tampered with ?

MD5 exists, and can easily be integrated in any p2p client.

Re:flaw (1)

MarsDude (74832) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747243)

ok... so I take a document, modify it anyway I want, make an md5 for it.

There's a document that has the same name as the original, AND there exists a MD5sum for it to check against.

A better solution would be to have a PGP signed document. But then again... Almost no Joe Average uses PGP or GPG... so no one checks the source of the document.

Re:flaw (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747359)

Uh huh, and in the case of 'government secrets', where do you look for an accurate MD5 checksum? Also, are there actually any clients out there which use MD5 yet? It's a good idea, in principle, but it's certainly not present in either Soulseek or Kazaalite.

Re:flaw (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747233)

If people download these documents from kazaa or some other p2p network, who is to tell if the information in these documents hasn't been tampered with ? For fun or evil... ...which is why the outragedmoderates.org site gives explicit instructions to search for their username and download those files (in pdf form), and they only guarantee the accuracy of files hosted by them.

How can you judge if documents have been tampered with? Take a random sampling and find the originals (all are public documents) and compare.

Frankly, this is no more insecure than trusting everything Fox News has to say.

Re:flaw (1)

MarsDude (74832) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747391)

True... but to many people have the tendency to trust everything and everyone without checking what it is (examples? how many people you know open attachments from unknown sources on a windows machine?, how many people have spyware installed with some application because they never checked if the software is 'clean'?)

So even though it IS possible to deliver documents that are 'original' and check for it... that doesn't mean that people actually pay attention.

Re:flaw (1)

Skavookie (3659) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747957)

These people are not likely to be the ones who are interested in such documents in the first place :)

pre-flawed from the source (4, Interesting)

zogger (617870) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747499)

you can't tell, same as with the "original" document that the government produced. They could start out pre-tampered. all you can do is find enough of them and compare them to look for inconsistencies. Unless you wrote it and signed it and released, you have no idea that any random government document is accurate,or is in the same form it was originally written in,you have little to no idea if anything in it is accurrate or purposeful disinformation or just busywork or a CYA effort for some reason. None of the above. Look at the way the reasons to invade iraq were presented, as "fact", based on "intel" from "multiple credible sources". Remember the pictures of the "mobile bioweapons labs" the regime was waving around that eventually were proven to be helium weather balloon "mobile labs"? That's just one example, there are probably thousands if not millions more when you think of all the projects government has been into over all these years. Pick any subject, any topic, any government agency, any year, any regime, you can probably find a lot of screwy documents that wouldn't past the honesty criteria.

The system has been broken for a long time. I have yet to meet any civilian or military government employee, willing to talk about matters off the cuff and off the record, who isn't aware of illegal or questionable shenanigans going on, and the system never gets fixed, it just gets more complex and they get better at keeping the bad stuff hidden.

I'm a skeptic, and based on decades of looking and seeing that this vague thing called "government" is just as apt to obfuscate and lie as tell the truth and be open, I am forced to assume anything they say-or release in document form, even so called "leaked" documents-should be treated with a high degree of incredulity. So the best you can do is compare it with some known data, and check multiple and diverse sources.

Re:flaw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9748166)

If people download these documents from kazaa or some other p2p network, who is to tell if the information in these documents hasn't been tampered with ? For fun or evil...

If a site you trust for whatever reason provides a link with a hash of the file you are downloading then your P2P client will tell you excactly that. This trick is avaiable in edonkey and gnutalla. Bittorent and freenet have it by design and even kazaa can be hacked to do it(sig2dat). It is great to think that software developers care so much for the integrity of our mp3, movie and porn files... and democratic process ofcourse ;-)

You can get weird stories into this world this way.

You don`t need P2P files for weird stories. I was taping my windows shut all day, turns out the UN didn`t receive an anonymous letter detailing plans for a terrorist attack. That was just the interior minister talking shit. (Hoe voorkom je nou zo`n aanslag? Goed flossen!) He had taken a question by a tv station about this letter so serious he ended up acknowledging the excistence of the letter... Probably in an attampt to show the goverment was taking serious all evidence that led to the terror warning.

Also, I was reading this paper by some student somewhere about saddam husein and his chemical and biological weapons. I didn`t trust the paper, I mean what does a student know about these things? Well he knew enough apprently, his paper got "integrated" into a british goverment file and rubber stamped with the joint intelligence commity sign of approval. It even came with extra nuclear weapons "evidence", cool satalite pictures of saddam`s palaces, a handy guide comparing said palaces to buckingham palice in size (which may be a hint what this war I have been hearing from is really about, size does apparantly matter ;-) and last but not least a 45 minute bonus analyses of saddam command control and comm`s capabilities for said weapons... boy was I thrilled. You can think of these stories what you want but they are without doubt, weird...

This Will Never Work (1)

deutschemonte (764566) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747158)

Lately the government has been reclassifying documents that have been previously declassified.

I don't think they would support this and may even attempt to quash it because it would remove the controls the government has over their own information.

Oh the times we live in.

Re:This Will Never Work (1)

Denyer (717613) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747286)

The thing to remember is that it isn't their own information. Governments are transitory... and then there's that whole "elected by and responsible to the people" thing. In theory at least.

Re:This Will Never Work (2, Insightful)

mwood (25379) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747602)

Exactly. It's not "their own information" because there is no "they". It's *our* own information; we just hired some people to take care of it for us. (Yes, I do remember that there's a world outside of the U.S. borders, but this story ain't about you.)

If some of our hirelings sometimes act as if they don't see things that way, all the more reason for the rest of us to make sure that we act as though we do.

Controls over information? (1)

Orne (144925) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747388)

As opposed to officials of the previous administration, who just take the classified documents home [myway.com] with them and "lose" them.

What this tells me is that there aren't enough controls (chain of custody) over documents...

Re:This Will Never Work (1)

Analogy Man (601298) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748132)

There are few things in this world that make LESS sense than classifying something after it has been released in the public domain.

Unless what you are trying to do is manipulate public opinion and spin the "liberal media".

Remember when Bush said Lay was a good man?...remember that he was one of the gang on Cheney's little energy task force?

In the short term this cynical manipulation of information may pay off in November, but in the long haul I do not think historians will paint a pretty picture of this administration 20...50...100 years down the road. Historian researchers have access to old Russian documents down to Stalin's love letters. Maybe this administration wants to out fascist him? Yikes!

Concrete examples? (3, Informative)

erroneus (253617) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747160)

You're kidding right? How about software distribution? Even though there is lots of software being distributed that shouldn't be, there is a lot of free software out there that is perfectly okay to share that way. Many people get their latest [favorite_linux_distro] ISO images this way. It's very legitimate and has been going on long enough to show it's not an exception to the rule at all.

Maybe the poster didn't think it through when he made the assertion, "For once, we have a concrete example to point to..." P2P is quite legitimate.

Re:Concrete examples? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747192)

I wouldn't download software from a P2P network.

Too easy for some crackpot to put up a compromised copy, wait a while, then sell his new spamming network to Ralsky or someone like him.

Re:Concrete examples? (1)

fuzzix (700457) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747296)

Too easy for some crackpot to put up a compromised copy, wait a while, then sell his new spamming network to Ralsky or someone like him

Not easy at all. He'd have to sort out a tracker, have a decent amount of bandwidth to get seeds out there and get his md5 sums and torrents onto a trusted source. That's apart from creating a version of a Linux distro with a spyware/spamming component that nobody will notice. How many slackware users do you know who don't notice massive increases in processing or traffic?

If you don't go to official sources for your distro you take this very small risk, but then why would you be getting your distro from ED2K or suprnova? There are legitimate, free sources!

Re:Concrete examples? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747913)

For a Linux distro, it's not a large risk, I'll grant you. Slackware users can be expected to pay a little attention to what their computer's doing.

That doesn't generalise to more commonplace software, though.

Re:Concrete examples? (1)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747628)

Actually, I think the poster had it right.

Sure, Linux distros and similar large software downloads is something you can point out as a legitimate use of p2p to sell the idea... to geeks. You don't need to sell p2p's legitimacy to geeks, though. That's preaching to the choir. You need to sell it to legislators. For that purpose, saying "Here, it helps the government do something it needs to do cheaper, easier, and better!" might be effective in ways that the software distribution example never could be.

Peer to Peer is already banned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747161)

...in Japan.

No files (1)

kyhwana (18093) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747168)

Hmm, there arn't even any of the files being shared, at least on fast track and gnutella (and openft)
At least if there was a BT tracker, you could tell if it was up or not..
I'd start a tracker, or seed the files somewhere, if I could just GET copies of them, but I can't..

Has anyone sucessfully downloaded/mirrored the site?

help censor the Amercian media (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747171)


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Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.

Part-time vacancies available
We are currently in construction [bbc.co.uk] of the world record breaking apartheid wall [stopthewall.org] surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.

The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners [commondreams.org] and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, [stopthewall.org] but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.

Do it today.

P.s.
if anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.

It worked for the Liberty. [usslibertyinquiry.com]

Emule? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747179)

The man should try using a network that isnt broken by design. Like eMule. Then he could just post the hashes for the files.

Telling people to download kazaa and linking to kazaa.com is just criminal.

what about google (5, Informative)

dncsky1530 (711564) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747180)

we all love google, however their search technology allows any one to find out anything about the government. one of the special searchs primarily searches US government [google.com] documents. Not to mention peoples personal information [google.com] can be found just as easily.
Please don't get me wrong, I love google, and use it, and I especially enjoy these types of searches

help censor the Amercian press (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747204)

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press! [honestreporting.com]
If you are at an American University or further education college we are currently recruiting active censorship drones [israelactivism.com] to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.

We can actively stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression.
-But only with your help!

Free housing.
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state [greenleft.org.au] by demolishing existing homes in Palestine [informatio...house.info] and building new houses on top!

We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers [ccmep.org] with a large western bank balance [cnn.com] to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.

Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!

If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them! [lnreview.co.uk]

Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your future residential developments on occupied land
with fully experienced snipers [apfn.net] in full body armour and appropriately armed
Apache helicopters [endtheoccupation.org] kindly donated by the American public.

If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and a view of the
Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 [wrmea.com] (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated every year by American tax payers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction [thirdworldtraveler.com] our economy is unsustainable and we require your contribution and support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs a fortune to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons [bbc.co.uk] , spy satellites [defense-update.com] and attack submarines. [globalsecurity.org]

Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.

Part-time vacancies available
We are currently in construction [bbc.co.uk] of the world record breaking apartheid wall [stopthewall.org] surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners [commondreams.org] and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, [stopthewall.org] but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.

P.s.
if anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty. [usslibertyinquiry.com]

Re:what about google (4, Informative)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747266)

Search Uncle Sam [google.com] for "il duce" and you get this:
Mr. Waxman. I only have another paragraph. And as in 1982, the administration is once again taking its cues from industry. While industry lobbyists are asked what they would do if they were Il Duce, environmental groups, the States and the public are shut out of the process.

Perhaps this is one reason they don't like P2P... (4, Insightful)

carcosa30 (235579) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747218)

Some other comments are saying "But they will just want to ban it all the more!"

In fact, if we use P2P to broadcast all kinds of government dirty laundry, their attempts to ban p2p will look like an attempt to crack down on freedom of information.

It could very well be that free flow of information, anonymous and universally available, is a huge reason why world governments don't like p2p. Of course, the record industry's huge donations to Orrin Hatch don't hurt any either.

I say dump Cryptome onto p2p sites. Dump whatever you can. We have a loophole right now; better try and widen it while we can. We might even give pause to some of the criminals on capitol hill while we're at it.

P2P and terror (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747258)

How typical of liberal slashdot. All emotion, no logic. "but I love P2P, whah- whah! I don't care if terrorists use it".

You liberals just crack me up - you don't believe in free speach, do you? Your all just sticking your hands in my pockets to steal my hard earned paycheck thru your high taxes.

This is EXACTLY why I'm voting for Busch in the Fall.

-Tim

Re:P2P and terror (1, Flamebait)

Random_Goblin (781985) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747532)

"free speach,"

"Your all"

"Busch"

Is it because you like Dubya's views on education?

Re:P2P and terror (2, Funny)

mwood (25379) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747658)

"This is EXACTLY why I'm voting for Busch in the Fall."

Next /. poll:

Your pick for President of the United States:

o Busch
o Coors
o Blatz
o Guinness
o Cowboy Molson :-)

Re:P2P and terror (3, Funny)

Frequanaut (135988) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748361)

Ah, I sea buy yur speling that you too ar a produkt of the know child left behind.

Alert! (1)

c0ldfusi0n (736058) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747275)

KaZaA users with government documents?
Someone should raise the DEFCON level up a notch.

Zer0 day (5, Funny)

minus9 (106327) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747281)

I'm downloading AGrikulturalPolicyNOCD+crakz.zip right now.

The point (0, Troll)

laserbeak (794029) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747282)

Micheal moore exposes government 'secrets' and the government will hate him even more, but the point is that although they will want to shut down his operatoion even more so, he got them where it hurts ;)

the government will want to shut down the P2P ever more, but they made a fool of the government and brought on some media attention which is a bad thing for them.

I guess there is more to it, such as a moral debate, but meh i just sctached the surface :)

Neat, but... (1)

kleinux (320571) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747305)

I fail to see how or why p2p is important here at all. If he put together a website with these documents on it they would be evan more accessable. Or better, perhaps torrents if he cannot host directly. Not having google to search for stuff usually doesn't speed finding documents. So neat, but I think his energies could have been better spent to get these documents out there in a more accesable way.

Re:Neat, but... (1)

mwood (25379) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747701)

Yeah, publish something only on P2P and I'll never see it, nor will anyone else who thinks it imprudent to trawl through a mountain of medical waste bare-handed in the hope of finding a nice gold ring.

Scofflaws have been far more effective in suppressing the potential of P2P than "the government" will ever be. I don't want that stuff anywhere near my computer.

Poisoning? (1)

Smidge204 (605297) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747307)

With the nature of P2P networks, what safeguards have been taken against "poisoning" the documents? Seems it would be too easy to take a document and modify/censor it then place it back into the network. Neither the article nor the website of the people doing this seem to address this possibility.

=Smidge=

Re:Poisoning? (1)

ryanmfw (774163) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747562)

Unfortunately, they can't do something like public key encryption. It would work, but it would make the person's identity known, which might not be desired ;-).

Re:Poisoning? (1)

ryanmfw (774163) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747589)

Also, the original person could have modified it. What about making a website with some cgi on it, that you pass a website address to, and it checks to see if it's a .gov or .mil site, and if it is, appends the file with that file encrypted with that website's private key. Then gives the person a copy of that file. It keeps the original person anonymous, it allows for verification of accuracy, and, the website most likely can't be taken down for just making it easy to verify government documents.

Concrete example of P2P's merit? (4, Interesting)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747309)

Nearly all game demos and patches are made available through bittorrent. The game publisher saves some bandwidth and gamers don't have to sign their souls over to fileplanet.

Some may argue that Congress wouldn't consider gaming worth of protecting. But just remind Congress that gamers are a billion dollar business, and that'll pique their interest.

Ironically (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747336)

Slashdot has/had a duplicate article in the 'Search' results.

When clicked, it said:

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

Ernest Miller wrote about this... (4, Insightful)

e6003 (552415) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747395)

...at The Importance Of... [corante.com] - basically he makes the very sound point that this obfuscated distribution system is entirely unnecessary. All US Government documents are public domain (non-copyrighted) so any web site could put them up for static download without fear of DMCA attacks. It would make them far easier to find just by using Google. Instead "I go to the outragedmoderates.org website, go to the "Government Document Library," look up the documents I want, ignore the fact that I could download them from the website, start a P2P program, enter a search for the document name and/or outragedmoderates.org user name, and then download the documents, remembering that if I don't download the documents from outragedmoderates.org I might be getting inauthentic files."

Re:Ernest Miller wrote about this... (2, Insightful)

number11 (129686) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748262)

All US Government documents are public domain (non-copyrighted) so any web site could put them up for static download without fear of DMCA attacks.

Are you under the illusion that the DMCA is the only possible way the government could attack a website?

Re:Ernest Miller wrote about this... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9748367)

That might be true, but I have yet to find a way to get the president's speeches burned to a CD so I can listen in my car. I tried Google. I tried P2P. I tried whitehouse.gov and they only provide streaming real media which is possible to "hack", but a requires running gray market software.

You would think the White House would want people to hear the state of the union, but not from Bush it seems.

complete support from me (3, Insightful)

davek (18465) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747463)

This is exactly what so many people should be doing in the open-source and free-software communities. We need to prove that many of these tools are only considered "evil" because they take away money from corporations. They are not, by themselves, tools of the devil.

This type of idea can be applied to many more things which can encourage social reform. Not just spreading information and accessing it easily (P2P and the Internet are doing just fine), but with opening tools and software/hardware solutions into the public domain. We need to figure out a way to develop software without fear of piracy (by making it free), and which still compensates those who spend thousands of hours toiling over it.

We should apply this idea at all levels. Move out of the dark realms of piracy and software cracks, and prove that we really DO have better ideas than the current industry.

-Dave

this guys got mad skillz (2, Funny)

uniqueCondition (769252) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747465)

"It took Anderson about four hours and 2,000 mouseclicks to download more than 13,000 documents related to Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force" 2,000 clicks for 13,000+ documents?? via an html interface.. now that impresses me.. i map ~ 1 click : 1 document "Pornography, for example, had a role in pushing broadband into more homes." just giving you guys a reason to rtfa

Isn't it obvious to you yet ..? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9747469)

They'll be using this new "law" against all the "criminals" and "pedophiles" and "in-hiding gay men" (which they have no proof that that is true) that ONLY use p2p for obviously(joke) nefarious purposes just so that they can blanket control the entire internet... like they've been trying to do for decades.

DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES!the govt is afraid of the Internet.
They have been for decades.

It's something they can't control.

unless this law get's passed through your not so innocent eye's.

Due to the bank end way the Net works.

AKA - PEER TO PEER.

That's how the whole internet works!!!

SHOCK HORROR!

And that's EXACTLY what they don't like.

If this law get's passed through i'll be willing to bet anyone a million US bucks it'll be done in an "open" and ubitious manor whilst cosying up to financially based corporations such as the RIAA (to feed there ill minded ad campaings on why P2P should be banned) with a result that end's up being almost exactly the SAME as the Nefarious DMCA law - that they sneaked in and used against you because you're a bunch of lazy ass armchair activists that just like to moan and don't do - until it's too late.

Congratulations GOVT!

You've finally found a suitable scapegoat that'll allow you to control the entire internet.

Sound like a conspiracy theory?

Think again.

They did it with the DMCA ...

Got the thirst ..

now they're trying to do it with the whole internet. (and they'll do it again - and again - and again) - (it's called false negatives).

Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction.

Don't let this complete and total eradication by using FALSE NEGATIVES as they do .. tactic fool you until the same happens all over again..

We, the innocent, must fight against this..
or it's the end of the internet and all the fun..

as you know it.

Contact me on dvchaos@hotmail.com

if you're interested in setting up an anti-ban P2P protest campaign... before it's too late..

you'll only have yourselves to blame if you don't.
or do you really want - only corporate controlled channel like internet(with intersertials the size of your whole screen). that we - the hackers - worked so hard to fight against.

contact me .. if you're interested in putting up a protest fight against this ludicrous damnation of your free speech.

Because that's exactly what it'll be.

if you lie back and let yourself get fucked by your oh soo friendly(lying) govt.

anybody up for a mass hack?

I am .. because this is just plain wrong ..
and yes you CAN .. make a difference ...

if you act now and VOICE your opinion ..
Loud ..

Before it's too damned late.

the cloak of secrecy.... (0)

zxflash (773348) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747543)

the cloak of secrecy must now be refreshed with the blood of p2p users...

wow (1)

ewe2 (47163) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747567)

it's the perfect disinformation channel!

Re:wow (1)

TheDredd (529506) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747734)

it's the perfect disinformation channel!

Sounds just like the American news channels

Secretive Workings? (1)

StateOfTheUnion (762194) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747788)

The documents are a matter of public record . . . . how does this shed light on "secretive workings" The only difference here is that this website does is try to shed a little light on the documents and reduce the "practical obscurity"* of them.

I'm not saying this isn't without value, but come on . . . I thought that responsible editors were supposed to make sure that such ridiculous exaggeration never make it to press.

* Practical obscurity . . . a term used by courts to indicate that documentation that is a matter of public record, but cumbersome to find (e.g. going to city hall and having to search records to find a specific document). The practical obscurity due to the the effort needed to find the documents affords some level of privacy in and of itself. Putting documents on internet reduces their "practical obscurity."

A proper sub-title for this story would have been (2, Insightful)

azaris (699901) | more than 10 years ago | (#9747824)

Using P2P To Make Gov't Documents Easy To Find,
Using Gov't To Make P2P Operators Hard To Find

there are plenty of legal P2P (3, Informative)

asv108 (141455) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748010)

Networks and research projects out there today. Bittorrent is probably one most widely use protocols for public domain content distribution. Furthur [furthurnet.com] is a 100% legal P2P music sharing network for bands that allow taping.

In the academic community, there are quite a few interesting projects going on. I work on a project called LionShare [psu.edu] , which is integrating services like authentication, authorization, and directory in to a federated P2P network.

For once?! (2, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748247)

Ok, reasons to use P2P:

Software downloads - I get all of my Linux ISOs from Gnutella and BitTorrent
Photographs - Yes, 99% of what's shared on Gnuttella in the way of images is porn. That 1% can be DAMN interesting.
Video feeds - Back when the towers fell, the Internet was slow, but usable. Major news sites were effectively dead, though. Gnutella was klunky then compared to now, but was still your best bet for getting video of what was going on.
Rare music - bands that have yet to make a name. Rare recordings from over seas that have never been for sale in the US. There are just so many GOOD things to listen to after you wade through the mainstream garbage.

P2P is a healthy, vibrant community of free speach. That means that a lot of the speach is the sort of thing you'd hear out of the average high school student, true, but that doesn't make the rare, considered speech any less valuable!

Other Examples (3, Informative)

Bob9113 (14996) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748422)

For once, we have a concrete example to point to when citing the merits of P2P.

Let me offer a few others that have been around for a while:
- Distributing FLOSS. For example, Linux [tlm-project.org] .
- Distributing music with the copyright holder's permission. For example, eTree [etree.org] .
- Distributing internally developed software to employees in a large enterprise. For example, LANDesk [landesk.com] and Marimba [marimba.com] use peer to peer distribution.

Eclipse (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748516)

Just yesterday I downloaded Eclipse3 with bittorrent, I just wish more companies/organisations would over their large downloadables over bittorrent; saves them bandwidth, saves us time.

Website (1)

malthusan (127694) | more than 10 years ago | (#9748757)

For those who can't be bothered to read the article or click the link in the article, there is a website where these documents are collected. In addition to being available on the website, the documents are available via P2P.

http://www.outragedmoderates.org/ [outragedmoderates.org]

Drop me a postcard... (3, Funny)

autophile (640621) | more than 10 years ago | (#9749023)

Thad Anderson, a second-year student at St. John's School of Law in Queens, New York, said he was driven to launch the site by what he says is the current administration's disregard for fundamental democratic structures and its increasing practice of withholding information from the public.

Drop me a postcard from Guantanamo, "Thad"... :)

--Rob

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