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Peter Gabriel: Digital Music Downloading's Future

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the world-according-to-gabe dept.

Music 99

securitas writes "CNN International's Becky Anderson interviews musician and OD2 online music service co-founder Peter Gabriel about the future of digital music downloads. The interview covers Gabriel's motivations in starting OD2, how technology has changed the music industry business model in the favor of artists and away from the big record labels, and where the small, independent artist fits in. Gabriel's words have weight because of his insights as both a musician/artist and a businessman who guided a digital music on demand distribution (OD2) and download service to success."

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99 comments

Last hope for the independents (5, Insightful)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788641)


Gabriel: That's always the question. There are deals being done now where the independents are going to get screwed again, I think. Where they're told they're on a level playing field but actually the big boys are. And again, I think it's only by staying together, and consolidating as a lump, that has some leverage and some power, that the little guy can have a chance to compete. The great thing about the economics of the digital world is that it's much cheaper to do everything and to reach people.


I think that this is something that everyone outside of the time/warner, sony, etc cartels who want to be in the music industry need to take heed of. If the big boys are consolidating, then maybe the smaller labels and distributors should put aside their personal ambitions and look at the larger picture...before they're written out of it.

Re:Last hope for the independents (2, Insightful)

stilist (753415) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788691)

This does seem to be one of the big problems, as he mentioned a couple times in the interview - the little guy (independent, or just an artist) gets run over in the mad dash for power. Independent labels and artists are simply too diffuse to have an real say.

Re:Last hope for the independents (3, Interesting)

proj_2501 (78149) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788704)

That's what's nice about things like Submerge [submerge.com]

Basically, a bunch of small Detroit techno labels got together and put all their resources together for their own distributor.

Lots of hope for the independents (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788936)

What the big guys fear is that ANYONE can simply record their music or video's and put it on line and bypass the cartels. In fact, the whole monopolistic industry of entertainment is shaking in their boots.

Why? InternetTV. Forget HDTV, cable TV, DVD and other, I want InternetTV where I get to choose what I watch and what I subscribe to.

The industry pouncing on companies like ICraveTV show how desperate they are to control what we see (and we thought it was just Outer Limits).

See http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,51303,00 .html?tw=wn_story_related [wired.com] for more on icravetv.

On consolidation. (1)

Draconix (653959) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789327)

Unfortunately, consolidation often leads to far more problems than one might think. In about as close to ideal in a given social system (yes, an industry is a social system) the safest system is one in which there is little, if any consolidation. It leaves room for differences, such as varying music styles. However, once people start consolidating under major groups, something interesting starts to happen.

The smaller entities start getting shoved out of the big picture. You are no longer dealing with the industry as a whole unless you go digging to find the smaller labels, and thusly those who prefer the types of music these smaller labels produce have much more trouble finding what they want because of the overbearing Main Groups.

Now, most of this is based on my studies of web-society and the parallels to real-life society (it's really quite fascinating; I recommend it to anyone who enjoys understanding groups of people better) and I've seen these things happen over and over, and there's something else I've seen as well, which is the main point of this post.

When the smaller entities stay apart, the larger entity will only try to surpass them. The larger does not view them as a threat. However--I've seen this time and time again--when the smaller entities try to form a large consolidation of their own, and actually succeed... then they become a threat. Not only do they become a threat, but the larger entity may feel them dangerous enough to warrant attacking them in various ways until they've been brought down. (And they almost always succeed in such ventures. It's very rare the people in power don't neutralize threats completely.)

I do not believe that the consolidation of indie lables at this time would be a good idea. The big companies have to be drastically weakened before they could stand a chance of surviving the attacks... and if they consolidate, it is more than likely they will end up going the same way the other record companies did: clinging to a small face of music, and shafting everyone else.

Gabriel is unaware of the real problem (2, Interesting)

Morgaine (4316) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789415)

Unfortunately, Gabriel has missed a key point. Everything he mentions would be true and would provide a great way forward for musicians in the digital era, if only it weren't for one collosal problem.

Musicians live within an extremely complex community embracing music production, fandom, distribution, a major hype machine, journalism, radio and television, thousands of associated forms of business, professional institutions of various kinds, and a strong legal environment, all parts of which sustain each other and exclude anyone who does not play by their rules.

The vast vast vast majority of musicians *want* to play within this cozy hyped up environment, they want to get signed to major labels (it's a right of passage), they want to get interviewed by the label-owned magazines, they want to be on first-name terms with the best producers. With extremely few exceptions, they will NOT even consider going it alone, because that is tantamount to self-exile from their own community.

This is why we almost never hear any dissenting voices when the RIAA decides to shaft another few thousand fans. Musicians don't care, because all they see is their mother defending them, and nobody else complains apart from a few loons, so it must be OK.

Gabriel will get nowhere because he is being very careful not to rock the boat in which musicians lie peacefully asleep. The fans are not asleep, and that is why he has had some business success getting music to them. In contrast, the future about which he is now talking requires the musicians to awaken first from their slumbers (or maybe it's a total coma) and recognize that the values of everyone in their community are badly distorted and somewhat evil, and hence to want out. That however is not happening.

Re:Gabriel is unaware of the real problem (1)

reezle (239894) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790274)

Sounds like he's well aware of the situation to me. Also if some artists are too dumb to see the situation they are quite in their rights to allow themselves to be owned....

"Gabriel: Well you see, I think that a lot of artists aren't very good when it comes to marketing or accounts or doing a lot of the jobs that record companies do, so we're going to want somebody to do that. And probably the people we will look to do it are probably those who have the experience. But what I fundamentally believe is that the relationship should be a partnership. It shouldn't be "we own you therefore we do what we want with your work." Those days should be gone, and if artists aren't smart enough to get off their arses and change that now, then we deserve what we get, because we have the opportunity [to change that]. It's quite hard talking to artists sometimes to get them motivated because there is not a lot of money in it at this point. But I think there will be and it's more sort of a power balance and I just think people in record companies now are a lot more willing to consider power-sharing deals."

Re:Last hope for the independents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789780)

it's only by staying together, and consolidating as a lump ... that we can form yet another big record label.

Where do you think they came from in the first place? No doubt the average Slashbot thinks they were spawned fulled formed from the mind of Satan. But they're really just organizations that started handling the common chores of marketing and promotion for the individual groups.

"Being indie" is not a rejection of marketing, it's just another marketing angle.

Re:Last hope for the independents (1)

celimage (719446) | more than 9 years ago | (#9794261)

If your an independent artist or on a small label your not going to get on Itunes and these other services. It doesnt matter how good your music is! Peter is dead on with his assessment and it is happening now. Technology has leveled the playing field somewhat but the labels and media companies hate that and are taking over content control. It took them awhile to adjust to the new scenario but now they have the upper hand. RIAA is now creating the Golden download award but dont expect any surprises here. It will be the same artists that get promoted in the media and have corporate ties. The concept that a musical group or individual can put their music on the internet and make a living off the merit of the music marketing directly to the public is fading fast. Dennis Jennings Celestial Image http://celestial-image.com

advice needed... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788650)

can anyone recommend a good mid-priced hooker?

No. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788655)

We're all virgins here (except for the gays, natch).

Re:advice needed... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788733)

Doing some sport fishing, eh? If you're around lake superior, how about the Hooker Too [fishduluth.com] . On the other hand, perhaps you're more interested in historical replicas. I'm sure you can get a mid-range replica Galway Hooker for a few tens of thousands of Euro in Ireland. Worth every penny. Superb handling, distinctive traditional Western Irish design. Plus you could attend the Portaferry Galway Hooker and Traditional Boat Regatta [mediaireland.com] and show off.

Re:advice needed... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788760)

Yes, the Galway Hooker is a visually stunning boat design [google.com] , and fun to pilot too.

Re:advice needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788796)

Interestingly, people have sailed across the atlantic in a Galway Hooker (the St. Patrick, built 1911). While not quite up there with sailing across in a curragh (an Irish boat made from cow. Yes, cow. Cowhide stretched across a skeletal wooden frame...), still pretty impressive.

Re:advice needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788825)

No, the Curragh is a big flat bit of land just west of Dublin. You mean Currach [google.com] . Easy mistake to make, though.

Re:advice needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788848)

Ya' know what? This thread almost makes me believe there is some remote hope for /. The moderation system (sic), on the other hand......

Re:advice needed... (1)

fishing (206255) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788876)

This is almost as off-topic as the parent, but now seems like a good time to quote William Burroughs:

Beware of whores who say they don't want money.
The hell they don't!
What they mean is they want MORE money. Much more. These arre the most expensive whores money can buy.

Re:advice needed... (1)

blue trane (110704) | more than 9 years ago | (#9792056)

I want a realdoll.

Female or Shemale? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9790043)

Can you be a bit more specific, please?

listen to the man (4, Informative)

jacquesm (154384) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788654)

Peter Gabriel has always been one of the music scene's most technologically advanced members. For instance with Genesis he pioneered the use of lasers during concerts.

Re:listen to the man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788664)

hahahahaha

Brillant? Sorta, I guess. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788668)

But it's not like he's Linus Torvalds or Bill Gates.

So, if I need tips on how to wear a fox head on stage; I'll ask pete. If I want advice on the internet, I'll ask someone who knows (such as the men I mentioned).

Re:Brillant? Sorta, I guess. (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788780)

If I want advice on the internet, I'll ask someone who knows (such as the men I mentioned).

erm.. Like an expert in Kernel design and a businessman who completely failed to see the internet coming until after it became big...

Might I suggest Sir Tim Berners Lee, or Jeff Bezos would have been better examples.

Do you bite on all trolls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788829)

Or just the most obvious ones?

Re:Do you bite on all trolls (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789278)

I try.

It's discouraging for them not to get any bites.

Re:listen to the man (1)

holden caufield (111364) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789187)

Gabriel has always been into technology, but I believe Genesis' involvement with Vari*Lite http://www.vari-lite.com/index.php?src=gendocs&lin k=Company&category=Main [vari-lite.com] came long after his departure.

Re:listen to the man (3, Interesting)

jacquesm (154384) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789479)

I'm not aware of 'varilight', but I do know that a friend of mine used to tour with Genesis and did their first laser shows (they *built* their own stuff, hardware, software and so on, practically between gigs). This is way back when Gabriel was still in charge.

Re:listen to the man (1)

Basehart (633304) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790711)

Varilite were one of the coolest lighting companies to work for in the eighties (and maybe the 90's too). Not only did the engineers get to play with some of the most cutting edge robotics technology, but also got to make lighting designers dreams come true on a massive scale. I was in Spain for a show in the mid 80's that was part of a summer long festival series put together by a TV company, and they had rented a Varilite rig for the summer to handle the higher level lighting work. The engineer, who aolong with all the gear was shipped out from their HQ in London, not only got to spend the summer in Spain but also got to show geeky musicians like me just how amazing the lighting system really was. Apart from the lights themselves, each of which stood about four feet high and capable of putting out thousands of colors and moving in any direction, there was a also trailer sized box full of computer gear and the massive control board. Sitting up in the control booth while he did his thing for the other bands was an amazing experience. I walked by their workshop a few weeks after I got back home, I think it was in Notting Hill Gate or Bayswater, and looked through the windows after hours and saw all the lighting systems in various stages of construction, and also some I'd never seen before that stood about six feet high.

Re:listen to the man (1)

Basehart (633304) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790752)

I forgot to mention that one night I asked the Varilite guy (I can't remember his name - sorry) if he could make the lights do the same epic display that Genesis used to do for the end of one of their songs (Los Endos?) which is featured on the front of their a live album Seconds Out but he told me that was one their signature displays and no Varilite engineer worth his salt would risk using it in the same way. He did make them do it during a rehearsal a few days later, with the smoke and everything, and I get goosebumps to this day thinking about it. I guess I'm more into lights than I realize!

Also... (1)

Vinnie_333 (575483) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789211)

He also pioneered the art of wearing big bulky flower costumes during performance! Gabriel's Genesis days were bizarre, indeed.

Seriously, Gabriel is one of my favorite musicians. He defitely brings a feeling of originality to each record with new instruments and arrangements. He was one of the first musicians to use samplers, world music, and the Chapman "Stick [stick.com] " on his records. Now, if only he would put out more than one record a decade!

Let's play Quote Spotting! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9791525)

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual.

And now he wants to laser-lance your rights ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9798384)

"Consumer rights under the Microsoft DRM can be configured at label, product group or product level. This means that the rights holder can control what the end-user is able to do with the digital product. For example, a label may wish to allow a customer to make a CD copy of one product, but not another."

Oh yeah, he's really in this for you and me folks, oh yeah -- need I remind anyone that DRM is not representative of any actual laws in any jurisdiction on this planet? So, Defender of the Musicians Peter Gabriel wants to slip DRM into every machine? Oh, yeah, that will sure help the little musicians, especially those little guys like poor Disney-Juke Gabriel.

Peter Gabriel (1)

danormsby (529805) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788656)

When I was younger I was sooo much a fan of Peter Gabriel I'd tape his songs off the radio.

Was still Analog :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788670)

Tapes that is .... :)

Also a musician carries more weight than any other guy ..

Like in human testing - "you have to be willing to do it yourself"

Re:Peter Gabriel (2, Funny)

balloonhead (589759) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788802)

You pirate! People like you make the internet a bad place. The RIAA will be subpoena-ing Slashdot to get your IP with evidence like that so freely available.

Re:Peter Gabriel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788827)

Home taping is killing music... so is Venom.

From the article... (4, Funny)

k4_pacific (736911) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788660)

Peter Gabriel was quoted as saying, "I'd like to hit the RIAA with a SLEDGE-HAMMER dunt-duh. After all, I've kicked the RIAA habit, (kicked the habit, whoo)"

How disappointing.... (3, Informative)

Asprin (545477) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788662)


Sorry guys, OD2 is Win/IE only. No Mac, no Linux, no Moz.

Re:How disappointing.... (1)

AndyElf (23331) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788697)

Yep:

The site you have tried to enter requires Internet Explorer 5 (or better) with Windows Media Player 7 (or better) on Windows XP, 2000, Me or 98. Click Here to use our Doctor Download application to help you check your configuration alternatively Email Dr Download.

Please try again.



As seen on MacOS X with Safari. Same result with Konqueror. UA spoofing does not help.

Re:How disappointing.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788739)

If you try the www.mycokemusic.com site from Mac OS X/Safari, you get a red page that looks like written in 10 seconds, that says that you need Windows and that if you are using Mac, the Windows media player for the Mac does not support the files that they have.

They seem to say ... Sorry but you cannot listen to our music ...

Re:How disappointing.... (2, Interesting)

wrf3 (314267) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788834)

To add insult to insult, look at the pop-up window that is displayed to "Launch the Shop". It features a screen shot of IE on Mac OS 9.

Re:How disappointing.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789064)

Hmmm ... I had not troubles in Linux+Firefox ...

Re:How disappointing.... (1)

Chemicalscum (525689) | more than 9 years ago | (#9792107)

It gave me the windows only page. But I am only using 0.8 without spoofing.

Strange... (1)

Dog and Pony (521538) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790309)

...exactly where did you encounter this? I surfed around extensively and everything just worked.

No UA spoofing, no nothing. Gentoo with: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040703 Firefox/0.9.1

Re:Strange... (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 9 years ago | (#9791717)

Aside from any webbrowsing barriers, the files themselves are in Microsoft Windows Media DRM format. So even if you get the website to work you won't be able to use the service.

Not that getting locked out of the service is exactly a big deal. Who the hell wants to buy a DRM crippled product anyway?

-

Re:How disappointing.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9790864)

Yep, that's what amazed me about the whole musicians rights thing. Gabriel is basically a Windows Media Format pimp.

Too Bad. (1, Interesting)

OS24Ever (245667) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788682)

I'm addicted to the iTunes Music Store, and since I have an iPod I'm not really going to switch to OD2. Though I really respect Peter Gabriel's work and music, he needs to get OD2 and iTunes together I'd think since they only support Windows from what I can tell, and that pretty much locks me out on my desktop or server OS platform of choice.

Re:Too Bad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789249)

....he needs to get OD2 and iTunes together ...

You know, I think he has. Reading between the lines in the CNN interview, he welcomes ITMS, it matches the philosophy behind OD2, and I wouldn't be surprised if OD2 is subcontracting content to iTunes.

To determine otherwise, you would have to talk with indie labels that may have switched from one to the other, possibly breaking exclusivity agreements. There may NOT have been any contractual non-compete clauses. ITMS doesn't seem to work that way (They just want access as a provider for a given time, to prevent the inventory from being yanked willynilly, except for those songs they DO promote as exclusives)

Is ITMS hurting OD2? I don't think so. Gabriel has happy face on.
You might check out old Robert Fripp Blogs to read his thoughts on OD2....

peter says (1)

hoborocks (775911) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788689)

He'd like to be our sledgehammer... wait, that joke was already made....dagnabit...

YOU FAIL IT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788736)

BIG TIME!

gnod's gnoosic (1)

david_benton (792793) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788690)

'...how do I actually filter the stuff, how do I really get to the stuff that means something to me? And that you can only do with an intelligent filter systems... It's something that interests me a lot because you have limited time, and you don't want, like with e-mail, you don't want all of the junk, you just want the bits that have some meaning for you.'

This statement, made by Gabriel in the article, reminded me of a project called gnoosic [gnoosic.com] (part of gnod) that I haven't thought of in some time. The premise is that people enter artists they like or do not and gnoosic creates spatialy represented relationships based on the preferences of a group of people.

OD2 still here, yea, but a success? (3, Insightful)

JasonUCF (601670) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788698)

a businessman who guided a digital music on demand distribution (OD2) and download service to success.

Durrr... I dig Peter Gabriel, and I dig this concept, but, uh, success? Can we have any stats to back that up?

In January, it seemed [slashdot.org] like the store had varying rights per label, delivering only Windows Media songs. Varying DRM'd files with fine print? Ok, I guess people were buying [slashdot.org] into it when they introduced that penny per streaming song thing.

Outside of that I've seen no press releases or 3rd party sites talking about OD2 as a "success". Are we qualifying it by the fact that they're still here after 6 months? The submission just feels weird to me.. I couldn't even find any stats thru google [google.com] .

(again, I dig Mr. Gabriel, and I appreciate him and Mr. Eno coming up with a new concept. It's nice for iTunes to have competition.. but I need to see some numbers to endear a service with only DRM'd WM9 files servicing 3-4 countries of the EU as a "success". Even the BBC [bbc.co.uk] calls them a success with no numbers!)

Re:OD2 still here, yea, but a success? (3, Informative)

glenstar (569572) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788840)

Check out the story on Loudeye acquiring OD2. Towards the bottom is this:

"For the quarter ended March 31, 2004 on a UK GAAP basis OD2 generated approximately $2.5 million in revenues, which represented over 80% sequential growth from the quarter ended December 31, 2003 and over 250% growth versus the prior year quarter."
Not outstandingly successful, but not terrible either.

Re:OD2 still here, yea, but a success? (1)

JasonUCF (601670) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789046)

Yay! Thank you! You found a metric! Woohoo! I'm such a nerd for statistics

Re:OD2 still here, yea, but a success? (1)

glenstar (569572) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789198)

Ooops... the URL for the story is here [yahoo.com]

Re:OD2 still here, yea, but a success? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788904)

"(again, I dig Mr. Gabriel, and I appreciate him and Mr. Eno coming up with a new concept. It's nice for iTunes to have competition."

If this is the same article I read last week, Gabriel and Eno have nothing to do with the service anymore, and it was sold to a company that considers itself to be a partner to companies like Apple and its iTMS as opposed to a competitor.

As for every motherfucker claiming Apple is ripping motherfuckers off, I have several friends that 'own' a label -- they share in the cost of a full time person to deal with distribution and marketting, and they take all the money for their songs sold past what it takes to employ their distribution people. Apple takes in a lot less than these guys are getting -- and now that the Indies are slowly signing on, I expect to see their European distribution (slightly different persons / artists -- the core group is the same, not all have the buy in for US & Europe, the same idea though) -- they will be making a lot more.

Why does the iTMS need competition? They provide a great service with little in the way of DRM compared to the other companies. What I'd like to see is a company that sells a type of media -- maybe on aluminum plated plastic discs -- that sell 'full quality' audio is 44.khz 16 bit audio, or maybe even taking a 96khz 24bit version of the same audio selling as a Super Audio - Aluminum Plated Plastic Disc...if there was a company (or maybe in the future an entire industry built around this), *THAT* might actually be competition to the bastards at Apple. They might be able to sell this in stores OR have a mail order company (maybe one of those places that sell paper media) where you can get the audio delivered as quickly as overnight.

Again, I only wish there was some fucking competition...then we'd show those smarty pants bastards up...

Won't work, unless..... (4, Insightful)

tenjinzan (799758) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788719)

This won't work for any artist other than mainstream artists, unless the indie artist gets airtime. Radio stations are still owned by big corporations, and like to shove thier music down your throat...until there are more places like IRL [indieradiolive.com] , then this model will probably not work for small artists. What Gabriel is suggesting is alot like communism...looks great on paper, but in the real world, other things need to change, not just how you buy the music. He is suggesting a change that will alow ANY artist to sell thier own works, but that really does need alot of help in the "Gabriel: Well you see, I think that a lot of artists aren't very good when it comes to marketing or accounts or doing a lot of the jobs that record companies do" area....and that doesn't necessarily mean that the RIAA can still have a job. Fsck the RIAA! I want to choose the music that I want to listen to!

Re:Won't work, unless..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788919)

I think the magnatune [magnatune.com] model could work. I can stream entire albums in decent quality for free and get a really good idea of whether or not I want to shell out for even better quality sound files. I think that's important when the artists aren't well known, and potential buyers might not take the chance based on a poor quality little snippet of a couple of songs.

Internet radio had to go... (1)

xixax (44677) | more than 9 years ago | (#9793317)

Unlike broadcast, anyone could set up a radio on the 'net and reach all over the world. I could tune into a number of stations that played exactly the kind of music I like, and more importantly, hear music I'd not have heard otherwise. As large as my jukebox is, it's still only got music I own (or not, depending on RIAA's PoV) in it.

Nowadays, I look at play-lists from clubs and look at what's being played and try find samples of artists who get mixed in with stuff that I like. The only radio I listen to is the local community radio (when DJs I like are on). As well as play-lists, I follow links pages from the web pages of artists I do like, and now have bought more CDs online than I have from stores. The web offers many ways of letting people discover the music they like, and for musicians to find people who like their kind of music. I'd even say it's more discerning and efficient than the broadcast model. We need to make such discovery tools easier to find and use.

To use market-speak, everything between the artist and the "consumer" is an overhead and an inefficiency.

Xix.

sellfone's suicide... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788738)

is it good or is it teh whack?

Re:sellfone's suicide... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788746)








Re:sellfone's suicide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788756)

replying to the empty post; and feeling particularly zen about it.

Re:sellfone's suicide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788786)






Re:sellfone's suicide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788843)








0
|\__o
> > \

Re:sellfone's suicide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788759)








lol jews

Re:sellfone's suicide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788749)

what is that some sort of geekspeak?

LOLJEWS (1)

Dikky (613893) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788778)


Re:LOLJEWS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788797)








HY DiKKY

This has nothing to do with music. AC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788752)

Please remember, people...
This has nothing to do with the creation of music.
It has nothing to do with us musicians or artists.
It has nothing to do with what it is about music that moves us.
It won't make music better.
It won't inspire, educate or enlighten anyone.
It has no sound of it's own.

It's a computer file distribution thing, and only has to do with audio in so far as it uses a codec that compresses audio effectively, albeit a little mushily.

Humans make music, not computers.

Re:This has nothing to do with music. (1)

pedantic bore (740196) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789890)

I don't think your model is quite right. How the music gets to the market does matter. If it can't be marketed why would it be created? (Studio time ain't free.) Whether it can be used to make money matters a lot to the artists -- if they can't make a living off it, they'll need to spend more time doing other things. (Even starving artists need to eat.)

It is as if you are arguing that theatres have nothing to do with music, so who cares if a few corporate conglomerates own all of them and never let anyone else perform there?

Re:This has nothing to do with music. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9791585)

"If it can't be marketed why would it be created?"

You have no idea how sad it makes me feel to hear that. I know yadda yadda money, tax, making a living etc...
But, it used to work the other way round. People used to write music, play it, enjoy it, and then *afterwards* the possibility of making money would be discussed.

Pato Banton and Elton John went for a songwriting session. I was making tea and patching stuff.. no recording.
Elton was targetting market sectors while writing the damm song, indeed as part of the song writing process. Pato was shocked, I was shocked. Nothing came of the session. My first rude introduction to how the music business at the moment really works. I always was kinda cynical, but I never guessed people really did that kind of thing.

You don't need studio time to create music by the way. People go to the studio too early nowadays with half baked ideas and the fucking engineer has to do the arrangement because the song has so little substance that without ladling on a pile of samples it is revealed as the weak derivative crap it really is.

Most people would be better off laying it down to a tape deck and rewriting till the thing works as just a few simple parts.

"It is as if you are arguing that theatres have nothing to do with music, so who cares if a few corporate conglomerates own all of them and never let anyone else perform there?"

No, that would be sad. My argument is not coherent, I'm just pissed off that some data in a file has become 'music' rather than a discourse between the musician and audience. You can get away with so much in a recording, I can make anyone sound great, it's just a long tedious process rather than starting with real talent and a decent song to start with.

Music used to be made like films. You'd point a mic like a camera, and it would record the scene. Nowadays it's often like a bad cartoon, built a frame at a time, lots of repetition of samples (cos that's cheaper than "redrawing" with real players) and totally disposable.

Some people like aphex, or tom (his twin), use the new medium to explore music, others just make cartoon music.

rant rant rant

Re:This has nothing to do with music. (1)

pedantic bore (740196) | more than 9 years ago | (#9793570)

I apologize for pissing you off.

What I should have written was "recorded" instead of "created". Nothing is going to stop musicians from making music. However, in order to record music and get it to the outside world you need to record, package, and distribute it somehow. This makes it possible to hear and learn about musicians who live on the other side of the world, for example, instead of just the ones perform at the local coffeehouse.

Re:This has nothing to do with music. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9795103)

Fair enough.

It's a bit of a confusing time for music at the moment. We have to ability to share songs from a personal website with a virtually unlimited audience for pretty much no cost, and you can get equipment to do very high quality stereo recording+multitracking for less than $3000.

And yet, making a record still seems to turn into a very expensive task.

Perhaps I'll get to hear the players at your local coffeehouse sometime over this file distribution thing. I'd probably find better music there than is being pushed in the charts anyway. :)

google too cheap to buy froogles.com? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788799)

instead, trying to steal it from some disabled shop keeper.

fauxking corepirate nazi wannabe billyonerrors in the making?

liltigate your way into the hell of payper liesense stock markup FraUD gangsterism if you must?

That's a mighty big word for a ten year old! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788820)



lolf

Re:That's a mighty big word for a ten year old! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788821)








google more like jewgle

Only IE and Windows Media Player (2, Informative)

jvkjvk (102057) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788847)

Tiscali Music Club: System Check

In order to enter the Tiscali Music Club you must have the following on your PC:

* Internet Explorer 5.0 (or better) - Click here to download the latest version
* Windows Media Player 7.0 (or better) - Click here to download the latest version
* Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP

Re:Only IE and Windows Media Player (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9788953)

Where is the link ? ;)

* Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP - Click here to download the latest version

Re:Only IE and Windows Media Player (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789032)

I think it needs to be mentioned that Tiscali sucks at most things including customer service ("we cut your phone off because of a billing mistake that _we_ made, we didnt give you a number to call, theres no number on any of the bills, and even when you find a number you wont be able to call it because we cut you off. However when you finally do call.. and get through (peak rate on your mobile) we will fob you off to as many departments as we can until we tell you that you owe us money but we cant take your payment over the phone, but 3 months later you will find out that we just took it out of your bank account anyway. The only helpful thing we will tell you is that we suck and that you should switch to another company like most of our customer support staff have")

so this doesnt surprise me

(yeah that was a cheap way of getting an off-topic rant out)...

Re:Only IE and Windows Media Player (2, Funny)

lavar78 (573962) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789193)

Internet Explorer 5.0 (or
better)
IOW, Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Omniweb, Opera...

Downloading and the small artist (4, Interesting)

Phoenix666 (184391) | more than 9 years ago | (#9788971)

Downloading takes the critical distribution link in the music delivery chain away from the big companies. That alone gives the artist the biggest chance to break free that they've ever had. P2P file-sharing, not iTunes-style pay-per-download, weakens the promotion link in the music delivery chain to some extent as well. That is, it doesn't cost you anything to experiment.

Big promotions via radio and ad campaigns are a different matter. Pretty tough for the small artist to negotiate with ClearChannel for airtime. Also pretty tall order for them to finance a billboard in Times Square. But that's the case now, so perhaps we're looking at a future where small artists starting out have to look to viral marketing to get their name out there.

What must go is the big labels acting like dictators, oppressing artists and dumbing down music to fit their marketing models. They should shrink and shrink until they're like specialized ad agencies, marketing a product like every other firm on Madison Avenue does. Then successful artists can hire them just like they'd hire an accountant, retain a lawyer, or any other sort of specialized service.

It's still not easy for small artists to accomplish what a label does now, but with home-recording studios more affordable than ever, P2P file-sharing for free advertising, and accounting software like Quicken it's more possible now than it ever has been for the motivated indy artist to DYI their own success.

Re:Downloading and the small artist (2, Interesting)

gotpaint32 (728082) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789084)

P2P has always been touted as a method of promotion, but in reality it isnt. P2p technology by nature only serves as an outlet for distribution, not a method of promotion. Sadly brick and mortar promotion channels still have the most clout in getting the word out to a broad audience and this is why the current industry is model is king. They know it, and I think most slashdotters sorely fear its true. Think of the dot coms, why would these companies spend millions to advertise on tv and radio when their target audience is so readily available to them online. Pretty simple, tv and radio comprise a huge segment of the population, plus they are a captive audience, they see what you tell them to see. So in the end the matrix has you, after all you can't find what you don't know exists.

Re:Downloading and the small artist (1)

lakeland (218447) | more than 9 years ago | (#9796023)

Personally I get more from iTunes than from bricks & mortar. Possibly this is an age thing -- going into a music store makes me feel old so I don't just go in and browse. To be honest, I'm pretty lost in a music store now, even on the top 20 I wouldn't have heard of 19 of the artists.

I also find p2p helps somewhat. I hear something and thing, hmm that sound ok. I then download more from p2p and see if I like it before getting the CD. Though this is really just a backup for iTunes.

An offering to those interested in online music (2, Informative)

pmaccabe (747075) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789083)

I recently discovered AllOfMP3 [allofmp3.com] , a Russian music store, because I was trying to find music by Eva Cassidy [evacassidy.org] online and neither iTunes [itunes.com] or Napster [napster.com] carry her music [washingtonpost.com] .

This site offers pay by bandwidth download of digital music, $10(US) per 1GB, and even allows you to select the bitrate and format of your download (including MP3, Ogg Vorbis, WMA, etc).

I was a bit wary at first, and I carefully reviewed the legal info [allofmp3.com] provided on the site. I was reassured by the fact that they accept PayPal and are PayPal verified among other payment methods [allofmp3.com] , I decided to risk $10.

I have been greatly pleased with the results.

My questions for the Slashdot community are: Can you see any legal problems with using this site? If so what are they? This is by far the best deal I've seen in digital music, and seems to be legit as far as my understanding goes, so I keep looking for the catch. If there isn't one, well enjoy the music!

And yes I know... in Soviet Russia digital music plays you.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789167)

Knowingly giving money to Russians is like giving money to Floridians. You're gonna get fucked. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life!

OK maybe that last part was an exaggeration.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789197)

As far as I can see there is nothing illegal about downloading from AllofMp3. Just like you could download music from a licensed distributor in Canada or Europe, you can download from a licensed distributor in Russia.

AllofMp3.com is licensed by the MOR(?), I think it's the Russian equivalent of RIAA. So your downloads are perfectly legal and the artists do get paid, I believe, and paid fairly.

5 cents a song, if they a sell a million songs on that service it's roughly $50,000, which seems fair to me for producing a great song.

Also, they have a preview feature which lets you preview the whole song at radio quality. So what I do is queue up a whole bunch of songs to preview and listen to them while at work, if there is one that I particularly like, I mark it for download.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (1)

nyseal (523659) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790396)

You were "reassured" by their acceptance of PayPal? Please pay special attention to the three letters in that word that are listed concurrently.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (1)

Tonytheloony (462274) | more than 9 years ago | (#9791223)

The site is most probably illegal. It is allowed to operate because of a "legal loophole" in russian legislation (information taken from some computer magazine).

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (1)

intradink (799852) | more than 9 years ago | (#9791459)

I doubt that this site is legal. The main issue facing global digital services is territorial distribution rights. This is why iTunes (and others) launched in the US and were unable (not allowed) to distribute content to Europe.

AllofMP3 have a catchall disclaimer in their T&C's saying that you will only use the service if it's legal in your country to do so (thereby placing responsibility on you).

I can't believe for a minute that this site has managed to get round the legal issues faced by every other player in the market.

Although it does challenge the industry and also offer quite an innovative model.... they might be legal in a few years.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (1)

vonFinkelstien (687265) | more than 9 years ago | (#9792467)

Great, just what the Russian maffia needs, another sucker to buy their black market goods.

Re:An offering to those interested in online music (1)

clifyt (11768) | more than 9 years ago | (#9792813)

You know why they can offer this so cheaply?

Because they are paying almost solely for bandwidth.

Unlike those of us that make music, these guys take the content and sell it without paying us. I know for a fact several of my friends are listed on that site and they aren't getting paid for it. Hell, some of the music isn't even sold in Russia nor is it licensed for play there. I know one guy that sells in the US, UK and Germany solely and charts regularly, but since he only uses he labels as a distribution source and as such, has to arrange these deals in each country (it was part of his agreement to get out of a major label contract -- and it worked out better for him) -- his stuff is there.

So buy from them if you want to pretend you are one step past Napster of the old days, but you are still ripping off the artist. At least with things like iTMS, musicians are getting paid. Every professional artist I know (and heck a few nonpros though different services like CDBaby) want their stuff there and happy to see it up -- they are making money on this. AllofMP3 -- not a single dime.

Virus Free Music ? (1)

bayerwerke (513829) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789125)

OD2 apparently has "virus free music". Is that something new and innovative or what?

Re:Virus Free Music ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9789274)

KaZaA sez:

britney_spears-toxic.mp3.exe
BritneySpearsChris tinaAguilaraShakiraThreesumXXXcu m.mpg.exe
britney_spears-xxx-video-rare.mpg.exe
BRiTneySpEARS-nekkid-porn-goat.wmv.exe
SpearsBrit neyPron.exe
Download_Britney_HOT_XXX_NUDE_PHOTOS. jpg.exe

Yes! (2, Funny)

natrius (642724) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789225)

Now I can hold up my MP3 player in front of my girlfriend's house and play In Your Eyes to win her back!

But if I actually had a girlfriend to win back, I wouldn't be posting on Slashdot, would I?

still the same original problem... (1)

acroyear (5882) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789576)

how does one GET successful using these new models.

many of the models for independent records, such as those created by King Crimson (DGM), Marillion, Peter Gabriel, Phish, et al, all work for those artists because they already have a large fan base from their days when they WERE on major labels, with major promotion budgets (or at least major touring budgets).

the independent approach (whether independent labels or downloads) can sustain an artist once they've reached a certain success level, but simply doesn't seem to work to actually GET one to become a national level (or even regional level above touring the same city or state) success to the point that the income from the music alone is self-sustaining. and by self-sustaining, i mean both in terms of the artist's own expenses and the cost of making the next recording.

Re:still the same original problem... (1)

nyseal (523659) | more than 9 years ago | (#9790473)

What you state is the primary difference between a "garage" band and a "studio" band. The bottom line is: if, as an artist, you want to make it big, get your name out there. How does an indie do it? By playing locally to start with. How does an RIAA puppet do it? Go to the studio. The fact of the matter is, actually WORKING is what brings in the cash; not some pseudo-moronic suit in California or New York telling you what you need to listen to. I think that concept has left the US; that one actually needs to work to gain financial independence. The kids have no clue; the 20-50 crowds are still looking for a lottery level salary position and the elders just plain play the lottery. Meanwhile, the other 95% of the planet get up in the morning and go to work; most grumbling along the way. What a sad state of affairs.

On OD2 (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 9 years ago | (#9789584)

I compliment this man on finding a good business idea. Create a music service "package", and sell it to everybody else. Kind of like how the people who really got rich during the goldrush were the people selling shovels.

However, for work I did some research into online music services, and really have to say that I am not happy with the quality of OD2. Lousy selection, high price for what you get, and it has restrictions up the whazoo.

So while he gets kudos for being intelligent enough to start the business and is indeed helping online music sales become big, his service sucks and should be recognized for that.

Requires Internet Explorer - No thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#9791151)

I tried to check out some of the music download sites - all gave me the same red screen telling me that I must use Internet Explorer.

Whatever.
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