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Microsoft Outsourcing High-Level Work

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the saying-good-bye-to-the-middle-class dept.

Microsoft 660

philistine writes "The Seattle Times reports
A Seattle labor group said it has new evidence that Microsoft is shifting high-level work to foreign contractors, including work on the next version of Windows. The evidence is a cache of Microsoft contracts with Indian technology vendors that were leaked to the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers, an AFL-CIO affiliate that has focused on outsourcing in its effort to organize tech workers."

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Come on! (-1, Offtopic)

strictnein (318940) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836190)

Here's the god awful color again. How tough it this to change? Who decided on this horrible, horrible, horrible color scheme? I have no idea, by I'm blaming TacoBoy!

Here's an idea. Next time my dog takes a really nasty crap I'll pick it up, pit it in a box, and send it you. Then you can base the next color scheme change on the colors you find in there.

Sound good? Oh... and I don't want to get modded down so:

Apple good. US bad. Bush evil!

That should do it. +5 insightful here I come.

Re:Come on! (1, Offtopic)

garcia (6573) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836251)

How about we not worry about color schemes and we start worrying about how lame it is that they have put EVERYTHING in "IT". I was much happier when they used more intelligent sections.

Perhaps we also need to suggest that they add ipod.slashdot.org so that we can block out the daily foursome of stories about the stupid bullshit the fucking iPod can do while still reading about MacOS X zealotry.

Let's go Taco. We are subscribers and we are footing at least a portion of the bill. Listen to our concerns.

Re:Come on! (0, Troll)

puffbunny (794955) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836293)


Let's go Taco. We are subscribers and we are footing at least a portion of the bill. Listen to our concerns.

HA whatever! Like you're going to do anything! You'll gripe with your buddies a few times and then give up, quiet down, and resume the role of good little /. addicts.

No matter how much Taco makes /. suck you'll still keep coming back for more! No worries

Re:Come on! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836311)

Me bitching about the RIAA, the MPAA, the practices of our fasicst government, or the education of the moronic public is likely not going to do too much but at least it is out there for people to see.

Re:Come on! (2, Interesting)

torstenvl (769732) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836523)

You know that the entire system is open-source, right? Why not fix it yourself. Make Slashtod XHTML 1.x compliant (DTD of your choice) while you're at it, eh? Thanks a bunch.

Actually, this wouldn't make such a bad project if I didn't work 50 hours a week... Maybe we should do this.

Re:Come on! (2, Interesting)

Sardonis (596687) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836254)

Although the parent is off-topic, I want to support his position. I have no modpoints, so I do it in writing.

Dear slashdot editors, please remove this color scheme.

Thank you.

I for one.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836463)

welcome our creamsoda loving overlords. I'd like to remind editors that as an anonymous coward I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their fiendish color-blindness experiments.

Re:Come on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836494)

I want to defend the color scheme. We're both way off-topic, but it's kinda cool once you get used to it.

Re:Come on! (1, Offtopic)

nharmon (97591) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836256)

Not only is the color disgusting, but how about the logo in the upper left?

"It is what IT is?"

Yeah Slashdot, you really are.

Oh, and Apple Good, US Bad, Bush evil!

Re:Come on! (4, Insightful)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836261)

Here's what I don't get. If you take the URL for this article, replace it. with games. you get the games color scheme.

In other words, all that matters is slashdot.org, the "section" only adds the shitty color scheme.

So why not let users pick a scheme they like in user prefs? Personally I'd rather never see the games. or it. again, though it. is particularly crap-tastic, I honestly thought the games. was as ugly as /. could be.

Re:Come on! (4, Informative)

strictnein (318940) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836315)

hmm... that is interesting. if you just drop the "it." from the front, the color scheme disappears and you get the normal slashdot colors.

Re:Come on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836362)

Cool. Now cum with me.

cool (1)

juggledean (792527) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836394)

And if you just remove the it you get the traditional or if you put in apple you get apple colors


It only seems to work when you have a sid

Re:Come on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836269)

how did that get Insightful? People have been bashing the colour scheme for a while now, and the post is totally off topic...... sorry

Re:Come on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836271)

AMEN BROTHER!

Re:Come on! (5, Funny)

mattjb0010 (724744) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836340)

Here's the god awful color again. How tough it this to change? Who decided on this horrible, horrible, horrible color scheme?

Color scheme decisions got outsourced.

Easy Fix to colour Schemes (4, Informative)

RussHart (70708) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836372)

Simply change your DNS records to resolve it.slashdot, games.slashdot, or whatever colour (yes, I'm British) scheme you don't like, and Robert's your proverbial uncle...

Personally, I've done so, except of apple.slashdot, which I quite like...

Re:Come on! (0)

bedouin (248624) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836373)

While you're petitioning for a change of the IT color scheme I'd like to bring attention to this [slashdot.org] purple monstrosity.

And to those saying the parent is offtopic, this color scheme is the equivalent to a 14 year old's Geocities page with white text on yellow background. It's just a bad design choice.

Re:Come on! (2, Interesting)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836401)

The problem now is that because someone has now complained about the color scheme, the "editors" will never change it. Ever. Because someone complained. That would be seen as giving into "lame complaints" and a big no-no.

It's a pattern that repeats itself every time the "editors" dick around with the fucking productions servers like this was still their little blog running on a 486 under their desks instead of a "serious" site that sells subscriptions and advertising and is supposed to make money for a company.

Well, at least now they can't use the "you're more than welcome to ask for your money back" witty retort because some people (like you) actually pay for it. Hey, if anything you do have the right to complain - except that there is nowhere to do that. So I think you'll be modded down "offtopic" (or better yet, overrated) and put in one of their blacklists.

Welcome to Slashdot!

Re:Come on! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836504)

None poo-poo-color link [slashdot.org]

MOD THIS WHOLE COLOR THREAD OFFTOPIC. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836522)

Next time my dog takes a really nasty crap I'll pick it up, pit[sic] it in a box,... I don't want to get modded down

Then don't post offtopic drivel talking about your dog's shit.

Re:Come on! (1)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836547)

I'm surprised no one has come to its defense, but I actually like this color scheme. I think it is much better than that lame standard green slashdot scheme.

I don't really see why this is worth talking about anyway. Who cares what it looks like as long as you can read it?

two questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836195)

1) Who cares?

2) See question one.

Finally (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836197)

Some quality code into Windows

Re:Finally (2, Funny)

Slowtreme (701746) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836545)

It might have Quality but I'll never be able to understand the error dialogs when they pop up.

Maybe this is a good thing... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836199)

All those hard working Indians are less apt to have bugs in their software!

What's with all these outsourcing stories lately? No wonder why this site is called "slash-DOT"

Re:Maybe this is a good thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836459)

Indians...um...Feathers or Dots?

Thank goodness RedHat is coded in America (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836205)

Linux will be free off all those foreign contributions.

FP (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836207)

First Post

HELP: NEED PIX OF KATHLEEN MALDA TO JACK TO (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836209)

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Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Terrorists embedding code, no more secure rating! (4, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836211)

Does this mean that MS Windows is now a security threat threat [slashdot.org] too? Because afterall, we could now have terrorists embedding code into Windows that is malicious!

Re:Terrorists embedding code, no more secure ratin (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836252)

Good point, but it will not be heeded. After all, the Department of Homeland [IN]Security uses Windows.

Re:Terrorists embedding code, no more secure ratin (2, Informative)

Cred (754775) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836260)

That's what I was thinking about. Really interesting to see how Microsoft responds to that question, here's one of their previous respond http://www.securityfocus.com/news/191 [securityfocus.com]

Re:Terrorists embedding code, no more secure ratin (2, Insightful)

strictnein (318940) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836384)

Best quote:

"Review is boring and time consuming, and it's hard," said Steve Lipner, manager of Microsoft's security response center. "Simply putting the source code out there and telling folks 'here it is' doesn't provide any assurance or degree of likelihood that the review will occur."

And if somethings hard, we just shouldn't do it, right? And "boring"! Like testing software is ever "fun".

So, MS's suggestion seems to be that, since it's kinda tough and not super fun to look through source code for problems, we just shouldn't bother having the source available at all. Great logic!

Re:Terrorists embedding code, no more secure ratin (1)

DeepDarkSky (111382) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836520)

Please, like there can't possibly be any terrorists in the U.S. who could do the same, or for that matter, criminals who would compromise code for evil purposes other than terrorism.

check this (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836213)

If you think chickens are stupid, try planting vegetables!

Outsourcing is evil.. (2, Insightful)

Ckwop (707653) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836215)

For all I know the Indians might be better programmers but working on the law of averages the problem solving ability of an indivdual is probably independant of their location. So it really is about the cold, hard dollars. The thing is capitalism isn't any more free than communism. What good is being able to criticise your government when there is only a choice of two parties?

If you took Joe Six-pack and actually took the time to educate him on the fact that he can't mess with the chips in *HIS* playstation 2 legally because of some weird-ass law called the DCMA then I bet he'd see the onimous tone to it straight away..

Out sourcing is an evil plain and simple. Why should a company's profit be at the expense of an individuals welfare? Who has the most votes after all.. the individual or the company? Government should serve you and me before the MD

Simon

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (1)

mblase (200735) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836270)

Why should a company's profit be at the expense of an individuals welfare?

Absolutely. Companies in this country should make the same profits regardless of how many employees they have to pay every month.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836280)

You, sir, win the prize for dumbest person on the internet today.

Outsourcing is not evil. Outsourcing is the only logical result of overregulation and overtaxation in the US.

That nobody saw this coming is what is truly evil.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836303)

Do you have the same view of outsourcing when it is factories in Pennsylvania losing jobs to South Carolina? Is that wrong?

My hunch is that you value the well-being of a random American more than that of an Indian, and that is why you care about MS outsourcing.

Jesus taught me to love everyone.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836400)

Jesus taught me to love everyone.

So what? Jesus built my car. It's a love affair. Mainly Jesus and my hot rod. Ding dang a dong bong bing bong.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836317)

Obviously, there are most likely both good and bad programming houses in India, but one that we used to outsource some embedded work for an 80960 processor was terrible. We were directed by upper management and about 1/2 way though, the Indian company gave up and said they couldn't complete the job.

Of course, the VP already got his bonus from all the money he "saved" outsourcing.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836374)

Joe Six-pack

What about us Joe 12-packs?

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (4, Insightful)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836392)

> If you took Joe Six-pack and actually took the time to educate him on the fact that he can't mess with the chips in *HIS* playstation 2 legally because of some weird-ass law called the DCMA...

You have a strange idea of who "Joe Six-Pack" is. Joe six-pack is shooting squirrels with his 12-gauge while he spits chewing-tobacco into a coffee can which is overflowing onto his shoes, staining them the color of this god-awful Slashdot section.
I don't think he has had much luck soldering hacked chips into any consumer electronics lately, and he surely isn't worried about the DCMA.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836497)

he spits chewing-tobacco into a coffee can which is overflowing onto his shoes, staining them the color of this god-awful Slashdot section.


ROTFLMFAO!

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836537)

A applaud you for working in the color-scheme dig in a nearly-on-topic rant. I just lost my mod points, sadly, and this hideous color thing is burning my eyes out. What was wrong with good old slashdot green?

Oh, and Joe would probably shoot 'em with a .22 or maybe a 410, but a 12 gauge just makes too much of a mess. Um...not that I'd know or anything. And he'd use a Pepsi bottle. And wearing faded camo pants. And apparently I know waaaay too much about rednecks...

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836476)

By my count, you've managed to jumble seven mostly unrelated issues into a single ball of illogic. I was working up the strength to untangle and explain subtleties like the difference between 300 million and a billion, or between one and two, when you jumped to PS2 mod chips! I'll leave it to someone with a stronger stomach.

Re:Outsourcing is evil.. (5, Insightful)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836486)

They "outsourced" cars too... Or would you rather be driving a Pinto? The company's profits go to the owners of the company, shareholders. You know, the people getting $75B in dividends from Microsoft (Bill Gates once famously said $640K should be enough dividends for any company). Now, I disagree with the DMCA because it is anti-capitalist. But capitalism in itself isn't cruel. It sucks for some people, but it's better than socialism, where it sucks for everybody.

(This is gonna get me modded down for sure).

Help me out here.. (5, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836228)

Are they outsourcing high-level work, or work on Windoze?

-jcr

Ha Ha... He said Windoze (1)

so1omon (577498) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836409)

That makes it funny!

Re:Ha Ha... He said Windoze (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836525)

ha ha. you're still a dork.

Re:Help me out here.. (0)

Osty (16825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836411)

Are they outsourcing high-level work, or work on Windoze?

Well, considering that Microsoft doesn't make a product called "Windoze", it must be the former.


Huh? What's that? Oh, you were trying to be cute. Ah, I see. No, you're just a moron. Thanks.

They have to pay people! (1)

ron_ivi (607351) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836462)

What amazes me is that Windows is so much of a pain in the neck someone actually has to pay people to work on it!

If it was really cool/interesting/good to work on Windows, wouldn't the best hackers just voluntarily contribute their free time to improving it for free?

Money is the heart of the matter (1)

Datagod (613152) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836232)

It just goes to show you that Microsoft is only interested in making as much money as possible, in whatever way they can. The worlds largest company, flagship of US captitalism, but not interested in keeping the jobs at home. How unpatriotic of them.

Re:Money is the heart of the matter (1, Flamebait)

strictnein (318940) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836246)

The worlds largest company, flagship of US captitalism, but not interested in keeping the jobs at home.

That's Walmart.

Re:Money is the heart of the matter (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836339)

Unpatriotic? Are you high?

If a person leaves a New York, which has a state income tax, and moves to Texas, which has no state income tax, is he being disloyal to New York, or is he being smart?

Where is it written that American corporations have an obligation to hire American workers?

Microsoft has only one obligation, and that is to make money. The government, with its litigation, regulation, and taxation, has obviously made it hideously expensive to hire American workers, so the companies are outsourcing to India.

Sheesh.

Re:Money is the heart of the matter (2, Interesting)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836415)

Would this be the same Microsoft who receives military and political protection from the US Government. The one who's US employees pay taxes, and whose family members serve in the military?

Microsoft has no written obligation to hire only American workers, I'll agree. But there is a certain "nationalism" which one expects a company to have.

As for Texas, I can't imagine anyone voluntarily moving to Texas being labelled as "smart." :-)

More workers (4, Interesting)

Klar (522420) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836234)

Are these new jobs, or taking away from current jobs in the states? Maybe this will speed development up on Longhorn... or maybe not..

Re:More workers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836513)

New jobs. Microsoft is hiring adding up to 3000 new jobs in Redmond at the same time.

Re:More workers (1)

malfunct (120790) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836532)

Consdering that the employment level at MS stayed close to flat (a few lay offs and "reallocations") these are probably new jobs. It sucks that american workers aren't getting them, but being in a position where I'm trying to hire competent people right now, its easy to see why they might be looking to other countries for workers. We have looked through hundreds of resumes and there aren't any qualified to do the work we have at the level we need.

Great, great news! (1)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836235)

Now we accuse Microsoft of being insecure as foreign saboteurs slip destructive code snippets into the programs they're working on.

Of course, what was their excuse before this?

security a non-concern (4, Insightful)

mblase (200735) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836239)

I was going to say something about the government taking issue with Microsoft outsourcing Windows code to non-Americans... how it might make it possible to introduce dangerous code, backdoors, security exceptions and all sorts of potential disasters.... ...and then I realized, well, how much worse could it be?

Outsource Our Security (5, Insightful)

slashrogue (775436) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836241)

Are these outsourced workers going to be working on the same Windows code that Microsoft claimed would be a national security risk if it was ever exposed? Anyone else remember that [discount-e...inator.com] ?

Yes, the very same (1)

phyruxus (72649) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836421)

I also remember when their case was before the DOJ and they said that remedies against them would hurt the economy. Well, I guess we don't have to worry about that anymore. Phew!

Well, profitability IS more important than abiding by ethics or laws. And outsourcing is good for our economy, right? Let's give them a tax break.

woo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836248)

microsoft creating advanced technology... that's news!

so this is GOOD news (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836263)

Wow, first time I've been GLAD to hear about out-sourcing. Those Indian cats really know how to program! I'm glad to see the next version of Windows will have few bugs, a better UI, and actually be released on time...

*yawn* (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836272)

A Seattle labor group said it has new evidence that Microsoft is shifting high-level work to foreign contractors

That's hardly surprising really, they're a multinational corporation, and everyone's foreigh to someone.

I donb't begrudge Slashdot working up a bit of controversy for ad hits, but stirring up racism is immoral imho.

Re:*yawn* (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836533)

It's not racism. It's basic economics. Over the past 20 years, the tax burden has been shifted from corporations to individual citizens, on the premise that corporations create jobs for people who can then support the government with income taxes. Microsoft pays NO taxes, IIRC. Now, Microsoft want to continue their tax-free status, yet the benefits will go only to Indian tax payers and share holders (most of which probably do pay capital gains in the US, but only when/if they sell their shares.) Microsoft is just doing what any capitalist would - taking advantage of a loophole in the laws to maximize their profits. What we really need to do is change the tax laws to tax the hell out of Microsoft Corporation, while releiving the tax burden on it's employees.

This is capitalism, get used to it. (5, Insightful)

5n3ak3rp1mp (305814) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836274)

The key to not getting bumped as a tech wage slave by outsourced labor is to not just learn a TECHNOLOGY, but learn a BUSINESS alongside it. Then your value will lie in the combination of business knowledge and tech know-how that you have. The kind of work value that this results in is not nearly so easily exported.

Re:This is capitalism, get used to it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836350)

Hooray - the U.S.'s last bastion of secure employment is being a PHB.

Do you guys know how to use a web browser??? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836282)

You click on the link and read the article and then you try to create a reply.

Instead we have "Write snarky remark, read article never - obviously the headlines tell the whole story.".

If you actually read the article, you'd see that the stuff being outsourced is 'glamourous' stuff like migration guides and testing tools - nothing relating to the kernel or even Avalon/UI.

This is just WashTech beating the union drum trying to scare people. If that's the best thta they can do, then there's a good reason there aren't techie unions.

Re:Do you guys know how to use a web browser??? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836349)

Thank goodness it's nothing critical. Since the testing tools they use are probably just gathering dust anyway, it won't have any real impact on the final code.

Of course, I'd prefer a native speaker to write the migration guide for each language version, but since they're full of useless stuff anyway I guess nobody cares.

Outsource My Liver (4, Funny)

webword (82711) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836287)

I want to outsource my liver functions to India, that way I could drink all day and all night and my own liver would be fine.

I don't understand this.... (4, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836302)

It's bad for MSFT et all to outsource programming work to cheaper labor markets.

It's good for corporations to expect Open Source zealots to write it all for free.

Cheap software takes away more jobs than free software?

I thought the whole point of the OS movement was to make the programmer completely irrelevant.

Re:I don't understand this.... (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836428)

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.


--Deteriorata

Good for Microsoft! (5, Insightful)

tabdelgawad (590061) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836306)

I'll say it until people understand it or refute it: you cannot be both for free trade and against outsourcing. They are the same thing. There is no difference between importing computer hardware and importing software services (outsourcing) except in the particular sector affected.

Perhaps the ranters should send back all their hardware to Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, etc. and buy American!!

Re:Good for Microsoft! (1)

Maestro4k (707634) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836469)

  • I'll say it until people understand it or refute it: you cannot be both for free trade and against outsourcing. They are the same thing. There is no difference between importing computer hardware and importing software services (outsourcing) except in the particular sector affected.
I won't argue the point, after all largely you're correct but there's more to consider in this case.

Microsoft has (supposedly) dedicated itself to security and making their code more secure. If they're outsourcing all/part of the coding for Windows to another country the difficulties in finding and fixing bugs and security holes are going is going to go way up. Now not only do they need to go through miles and miles of legacy (likely) spaghetti code, they'll have miles and miles of new spaghetti code introduced by programmers who's native language isn't English. Yes they may know English but since they're not located in the US they'll likely be using another language to communicate in their local workplace.

Other companies have found that the cost savings evaporate when they start outsourcing to other countries and the difficulty of fixing things across countries/cultures/languages rears its head. I suspect this will lead to worse security and more bugs without even considering the potential for deliberate security hole insertions.

So in this case free trade and outsourcing will likely lead to a much HIGHER cost of development. They'll probably have to retain all their current developers just to find and fix the bugs introduced by the outsource firm. If I was a stockholder I'd be really pissed.

I question the wording (2, Insightful)

Politicus (704035) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836322)

Yet a Microsoft spokeswoman said none of the company's core intellectual property is being developed outside the company.
I think this was a glitch. The article meant to say
A Microsoft spokeswoman said none of the company's core intellectual property is being developed outside the company, yet.

The Puzzling Reality (4, Interesting)

Eberlin (570874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836326)

You know, the strangest thing that struck me about outsourcing is that a lot of the companies doing so are doing well BEFORE outsourcing. They do so in order to save money and increase profits. In turn, that translates to "growth" and better eyecandy for investors.

Not a lot of these companies are hurting for cash. They outsource for more money. I wonder if people would support such companies if they knew where the workers were from. I mean sure, the consumer saves a buck or so because of the cheaper labor...but will they be willing to pay that extra buck knowing they're supporting a competing but an absolutely "Made in the (insert country here)" product?

Re:The Puzzling Reality (1)

greymond (539980) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836450)

"I wonder if people would support such companies if they knew where the workers were from."

No one cares where things are made, thats why more people own Nintendos+Playstations than Xbox's, drive more Honda Civics than Ford Mustangs, and download pron from .jp more than .us....

Consumers want higher quality products for less. But that won't stop them from complaining about jobs being outsourced while they're playing with their Aibo.

Re:The Puzzling Reality (1)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836456)

You know, the strangest thing that struck me about outsourcing is that a lot of the companies doing so are doing well BEFORE outsourcing. They do so in order to save money and increase profits.

So you mean that companies that focus on saving money and increasing profits are the sort of companies that are already doing well? I'm sure none of us would have predicted that.

Re:The Puzzling Reality (1)

dgagley (468178) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836514)

The problem is that if you outsource the consumer's jobs then that consumer can no longer afford the product even though that product will be a dollar or two cheaper.

The real problem is the cost of living in this country is so out of whack with the rest of the world not only is the pay more the cost for everything is alot more. There are not many people in other countrys including the other powers that can afford $300,000 for a house and $30,000 for a car plus food, utilities, clothes ect. India and other countries with a workforce that can work for 1/3rd what we do will continue to get our jobs until there is some kind of ballance. With our success came high costs of living and EGO.

this will be either very good or very bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836341)

this will mean either teh quality of MS code wil be either very very good or drastically bad which may end MSFT dominance., Indians are good programmers but not good designers. they how how to write code, but not why to write it this way vs some other way. they are truly a CHINA of software market. IF u send say a chair to be manufactured in china with a spelling mistake in installation guide, the chinese will send u 1000 of those chairs done as u want with the same spelling mistake,. they wont try to see or verify if there is a mistake,. they are a machine - input - output matters - whats in input doesnt .. Same with indian programmers - they can work day and night and code something - it most prbably will be bad design and in efficient - but it will work ..

India again? (5, Insightful)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836346)

The evidence is a cache of Microsoft contracts with Indian technology vendors

Isn't it strange how Slashdot's outsourcing stories are always about India and China?

They're never talking about shocking evidence of contracts with e.g. Canadian or Irish technology vendors.

Not that I'm suggesting that this is barely veiled racism. You can get modded down for being honest about that.

Re:India again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836482)

Isn't it strange how Slashdot's outsourcing stories are always about India and China? They're never talking about shocking evidence of contracts with e.g. Canadian or Irish technology vendors.

Duh. Maybe that's because Canadians and Irish don't work for a nickel per annum. It's a simple matter of illustrating by picking the most flagrant examples.

Canada and Ireland aren't significantly cheaper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836544)

You aren't seeing Canadian or Irish outsourcing stories because it doesn't happen. This isn't a racial thing. Jobs go where salaries are low, and right now that means the far east.

Tech Support Jobs or a hole in the wall! (1)

snower1313 (801399) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836351)

This is what happens when you want to keep your tech support jobs from being outsourced--they outsource upper level employees--they don't deal directly with customers.

outsourcing.. (1)

maximus21 (594825) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836358)

well the sad part of the cycle is that--- coding is being outsourced overseas.. but then they enter into the yahoo chat rooms and ask questions from the american programmers.... I don't quite understand that part

Borderless world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836388)

Unfortunately this is a byproduct of the Internet and a borderless world it created.

Is it painful in the meantime? Yes, I was laid off before, it sucks. But I found work again and started over - you can too.

Can it be stopped? Yes, but not through government regulation, protectionism or trade barriers - these will fail, just like internet censorship and halting file sharing.

Will things change? They already have and we (the US and other countries affected by outsourcing) can either join the herd or turn off all the power in this country and start training people to be blacksmiths and farmers because the rest of the technological world will leave us behind.

Will I find a job? Finding a job has nothing to do with outsourcing. You are merely looking for a scapegoat for your inability to change.

Will I flip burgers? In ten years there will be a massive shortage of educated and experienced professionals worldwide. Global employment will be the only choice left. Flip burgers only if you want those meal discounts and the smell of french fries in the morning.

Re:Borderless world (2, Insightful)

mrtroy (640746) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836530)

Unfortunately this is a byproduct of the Internet and a borderless world it created.
Is it painful in the meantime? Yes, I was laid off before, it sucks. But I found work again and started over - you can too.
Can it be stopped? Yes, but not through government regulation, protectionism or trade barriers - these will fail, just like internet censorship and halting file sharing.


Yes, unfortunately America can not stop the balancing of wealth around the globe. The US better do something quick, or soon people in 3rd world countries will be eating 2 meals a day and have shelter and clothes.

Remind me why outsourcing is bad? Global employment looks pretty good to me. Give the job to who can do it the best, at the lowest cost. Even if this means a few less Americans can afford their Lexus payments.

The downfall of Microsoft (1)

NaCh0 (6124) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836410)

While Washington state may be a nice place to live, the infestation of west-coast liberals will be the downfall of Microsoft. Enter the AFL-CIO... Hello corruption and pricing your labor out of the world market.

I guess, perversely, this is good news for Linux.

saying-good-bye-to-the-middle-class dept. (5, Informative)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836444)

saying-good-bye-to-the-middle-class dept.

Forget the many economist that make arguments like this one [economist.com] , stating that outsourcing will ultimately benefit consumers...

Forget government data that downplays the significance of offshore work...

Forget the fact that companies like Microsoft sell millions of dollars worth of software to foreign countries around the world...

...and just jump to the conclusion that the entire US middle class is doomed.

Nice!

Re:saying-good-bye-to-the-middle-class dept. (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836507)

Sure, because apparently everyone in middle-class America is a mid-level programmer or tech support drone.

Don't you see, those are the only jobs there are!

Don't pay much heed. This is just thinly veiled racism. See any stories about outsourcing to Canada, Ireland, Germany, or the UK? It happens. But those are white people getting the jobs.

It's only offensive when one of those races, whom we've been raised to feel superior to, starts to compete with us.

Reason for delays? (0, Troll)

moojin (124799) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836470)

Could this be their reason for delaying Longhorn and 64 bit Windows XP?

Does this prove that Microsoft is no longer a software development company, but a monopolistic corporation that cares nothing about security, quality, release dates and focuses entirely on how to harvest the smallest penny of profit from their cash cow?

Andrew

by any other name.. (1)

spirit_fingers (777604) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836487)

I just love the name of that union - "Washington Alliance of Technology Workers". As if it weren't 99.99% about organizing Microsoft's employees. Coy. Very coy.

Microsoft Union? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836488)

Will this accelerate the formation of a Microsoft union? When MS outsources, the pickets go up?

This explains things! (0, Troll)

jo42 (227475) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836521)


This explains why WinXP SP2 has been delayed. Why Longhorn (aka cowpies from Redmond) has been delayed. Why 64-bit versions of Windows XP has been delayed. Why Windows 2003 Server SP1 has been delayed.

What happens with these FUD headlines (2, Insightful)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836539)

Quoth the article (which very few people will bother to read):
Much of the work involves testing, preparing user guides and building specialized tools. One of the Infosys projects is a guide for customers switching from an Oracle database to a Microsoft database.
Now, here's what happens:
  • d00d did you hear the latest about M$?
  • what?
  • they're outsorcing most of their development work to Inidia d00d!!
  • really???
  • no shiet. I saw it on Slashdot. Windoze is being written in India and like .NOT and Yukon and stuff!!
  • OLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!
Selective quoting and intentionally misleading write-ups. FUD, plain and simple. You whine when Microsoft does it to you, but you have no problem whatsoever in doing it to them.

Shortsight, stupid companies (2, Insightful)

bot (235273) | more than 10 years ago | (#9836540)

What Microsoft, and all these goat cheese for brain companies dont realize is, once most high paying jobs move out of US, who is going to buy their overprice crud? Do they see Chinese or Indians lining up to spend 300+ dollars to buy Office?

Outsourcing: An Urgent Threat to National Security (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9836546)

Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
sdff
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
strdgtfgette
asdf
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.sdsfdf

sdfrsf
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

esdfgdsg
sfds
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

sf
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
fsedrss
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

gt;lk;;ls
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.

sfdws;l
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.;';lad
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
sffsl;klkFelching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.'l;'sfd
Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.Felching is a sexual practice in which a person sucks semen out of his or her partner's vagina or anus.

Some people use the term for the act of inserting animals into an anus or vagina, which is a form of bestiality. This usage is considered incorrect by many.
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