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Troika's Fallout 3 Pitch Prototype Showcased?

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the many-fallouts dept.

Role Playing (Games) 28

An anonymous reader writes "The No Mutants Allowed website has gotten hold of some screenshots of a post-apocalyptic RPG that was in development at Troika Games - the news story claims: 'Due to recent developments, [the prototype has] currently been put on hold.' Did the recent acquisition of the Fallout license by Bethesda kill chances of a Fallout 3 made by the game's original development team?" A recent messageboard post at the Troika-based Terra Arcanum fansite also suggests: "According to several unconfirmed rumors... Troika were also in the bidding for the license. In the end though... Troika were simply out-gunned."

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Too bad... (4, Insightful)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 10 years ago | (#9866519)

...Arcanum and TOEE were *much* closer to Fallout than any of Bethesda's offerings. Imagine TOEE's engine with a new fallout game!

But this is what happens in the computer industry - the people with the most money get the better licences. Too bad that Bethesda's going to make the game that we *don't* want - endless, repetitive, computer-generated quests in a desert with Pipboy.

Arcanum had a great story but bad engine. TOEE had a terrible story but a terrific engine. Too bad they weren't given the chance to work with a brilliant francise using their TOEE engine - could have given us the game that us FO freaks wanted.

Re:Too bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9866730)

I don't like bugs in my engine

Re:Too bad... (2, Interesting)

NeuroKoan (12458) | more than 10 years ago | (#9866734)

Hopefully they can find a way to fully develop this game and release it under a different name, not related to the Fallout franchise.

On the other hand, if it is related to the Fallout franchise, I would hope they could find a way to remove all the Fallout IP without either A) marring the game so badly its unplayable or B) make it an obvious Fallout ripoff (ie "this game includes your handy digital assistant Popboy!").

Re:Too bad... (2, Insightful)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 10 years ago | (#9866826)

Agreed. This world really needs more non-fantasy based, non-IP RPGs (KOTOR was good, but how many star wars games do we really need)? Fallout was a breakout success in terms of originality and *fun* - let's see Troika develop some kick-ass intellectual properties that they can take to the bank!

Re:Too bad... (4, Informative)

abandonment (739466) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867168)

which would be funny because fallout started as a gurps game, but they couldn't get the license so they created the fallout 'game system' and it's associated stats etc

for it to move onto a 3rd game/world system now would be amusing - and proves that the fans don't care about the IP - they want good games

Re:Too bad... (1)

DaFlusha (224762) | more than 10 years ago | (#9869666)

Except that Fallout would have been just as successful had it used the GURPS license/IP from the start, the point being that the story and the good game design sold it to people. The fans do care about the IP--the actual setting, backstory, etc., as opposed to any IP related to specific game engines like SPECIAL. So don't say that the fans don't care about the IP...

Re:Too bad... (1)

tohoward (78757) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870340)

Ok, this isn't my recollection of what heppended. They (Interplay?) had the GURPS licence, and Steve Jackson Games was on board about them using it. There was alot of buzz at the time of it being the first "GURPS Powered" game on the market. Then, at the last minute, they hacked the GURPS stuff out of it. Anyone that's played the Fallout series and knows GURPS can tell that many of the game mechanics are very GURPS-like.

Re:Too bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9873079)

From what I recall, GURPS was pulled because Steve Jackson didn't care for the content and excessive violence that was in Fallout 1. So it got pulled at the last minute and replaced with Special.

Re:Too bad... (2, Interesting)

AdamPiotrZochowski (736869) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867133)

TOEE engine? hah, graphically decent, TOEE engine is AD&D
based, and AD&D for cRPG just sucks ass. AD&D has tons of rules
that are originally left for the dungen master to enforce or not.
Further more, AD&D rules are quite limited, especially since they
are for pen & paper, minimizing calculations.

For example, in AD&D you have charisma/likability. If you play
as an ogre you get a penalty hit for charisma, I understand,
ogre deals with humans, charisma is shot to hell, but same ogre
character deals with ogre? Shouldn't the reciprocal be true to?
And then another scenario, you play human, go to a bartender that
is an ogre, should not your human character now get same charisma
penalty as a ogre player going to human bartender? BLAH

Another problem with AD&D is classes. Classes of characters are
MOST stupid and braindead idea ever. If I play as a clerick or
druid or whatever then I cannot wear armour. Its against my
alignment/beliefs, even if I play as chaotic evil. Instead of
giving me a penalty of -4 for wearing armour against my class
I cant even try to put the armour on.

Now, take original fallouts:

1. there is no concept of classes , you build character how you
want. Do you prefer a thief? Choose lockpick/stealth/steal
skills. Do you prefer a brain guy? choose intelligence/repair
Speech skills. Do you prefer fighter? Go with power/agility
and weapon skills.

You are not locked into classes, start with one set of skills
but in middle of the game start upgrading other skills. Maybe
you will notice that what you wanted (thief) needs to change
to another (sniper).

2. npcs npcs npcs... fallout is famous for having npcs written
well with wide variaty of things that change talk options.
Depending on all your actions, karma, perks, skills the whole
game changes.

I just dont see Fallout in AD&D.

/apz, Of all my friends, you are the first.

Oh what a load of crap. Create their own story (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867629)

Geez what is it with license. Fallout did not have a license when it was released. It created it.

But you need a big licensed name to sell you game nowadays. Kindly explain Star Wars Galaxies to me then. Biggest license around and doesn't sell.

If these guys got a nice engine for creating a post-apolyptical world then why can't they create their own story? Nobody "owns" hero must rebuild mankind. No law saying you can't create your own vault-dweller.

Instead of whining let them release their own game set in their own world. It is not like we are being overwhelmed with RPG's set in the future.

Arcanum and TOEE suffered both from one very simple thing. TO BLOODY BIG. There is no fun in walking around a landscape where a shed/building that is empty takes up several screens. Add the bugs to TOEE and they didn't sell because they were crap. It is sometimes hard to figure out why baldurs gate and its succesors worked. Just play some Arcanum and TOEE and it will become clear. Baldurs gate is smaller. Less gigantic areas with nothing to do in and far less walking involved.

On a side note, when are RPG games going to develop some code that makes sure only items are dropped wich I can use. Especially sucks in single player rpg's. Wow, my wizard got a gigantic asskicking sword. Can't use it and is to heavy to carry back. Nice. Usefull. Would it have been so hard to add class specific loot. Tip don't play nevewinter nights as a monk. You will have more money then creoscote and nothing to spend it on.

Re:Oh what a load of crap. Create their own story (2, Insightful)

mbourgon (186257) | more than 10 years ago | (#9868256)

Arcanum and TOEE suffered both from one very simple thing. TO BLOODY BIG.

Actually, that's my wife is still playing it. She's finished it 5 times or so. She's even done the so-called "God's Quest". For her, it's like Morrowwind - she'll eventually finish the main story, but let's enjoy and wander around the world first. If you skip all the side stuff, it goes rather quickly.

Oh, and there's a new TOEE patch, you might want to take a look. My problem with the game is that it's too slow, it takes too long to get to a "wow" point.

Loot: I understand completely. Some NWN modules deal with it better than others. Right now my 30th level monk has dual Kama, one of which does 3D10, the other is Vorpal 18. I've got 3 different sets of Monk "armor", two sets of Gauntlets, two sets of bracers, three sets of boots, and a really nice cloak to aid my "hide" skill. The OC wasn't great about it, but the two expansions had some good stuff. And again, check out some third-party modules. We just got done with MTS2, which wound up with a ton of useful loot.

Re:Oh what a load of crap. Create their own story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870987)

But you need a big licensed name to sell you game nowadays. Kindly explain Star Wars Galaxies to me then. Biggest license around and doesn't sell.

Ah, young one, you've fallen prey to a most devious logical fallacy.

If it is indeed true that you must have a license in order for your game to sell well, that doesn't mean your game will sell well just because you have a license. It only means your game won't sell well unless you do have one. So the sales, or lack thereof, of Star Wars doesn't require explanation.

If you wished to show that one didn't need a license in order for the game to sell, you should instead find a game that does sell well without a license.

This is relatively easy to do. Both City of Heroes (#1) and Far Cry (#5) were in the top ten for PC game sales (in the US) for June. There might have been a couple others in the top ten that were neither sequels or licenses, but I don't know enough about them to be sure.

NMA's screenies look great! (1)

glowimperial (705397) | more than 10 years ago | (#9866711)

Let's hope Troika gets a shot at this one in the end.

Re:NMA's screenies look great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9867030)

One one hand I hope they die, would be a good warning to other companies that rip off their customers with bug ridden untested software like ToEE.

And don't try to blame it on Atari, the postmortem was pretty clear on why ToEE was released like this.

On the other hand, vampire bloodlines looks delicious, maybe they should just fire their management team.

you think there would be doom3 leak news... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9866766)

you think there would be doom3 leak news...

Stop repeating that PR spins. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9867015)

Yea, yea, sure

ToEE was the most bug ridden piece of crap of the last year and had the worst voice acting of the year.

Arcanum was bug ridden and had no game balance at all.

I'm sure the rabid fallout fans will now blame bethesda for "preventing fallout from the original team" - but right now, I'd take any software bethesda puts out (and they aren't saints when it comes to bugs as well) over whatever Troika puts out any day.

The whole "it must be from the orginal team" stuff is hillarious - the original team, black isle, produced more crap or canned software than good software in the last 5 years (lionheart anyone? canned fallout 3? canned van buren/bg3? Icewind Ripoff 2?).

Now there are 3 companies trying to cash in on "by the original creators of fallout and baldurs gate!!" (Troika, Obsidian, Fargo's new company). I don't CARE if one or two guys on the development team of a startup worked on a hit before, as long as you don't put out a hit title yourself, stuff your PR somewhere.

Troika has some good stuff in the pipeline (Vampire), BUT neither ToEE or Arcanum where anywhere close the quality of Fallout ...

And before anyone rants about evil Atari being the reason fallout was bugged - read the postmortem. Troika screwed up big time and tried to pimp Atari for more money and time...

Re:Stop repeating that PR spins. (2, Informative)

AdamPiotrZochowski (736869) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867147)

IIRC Van Burmen project was the Fallout 3, not BG3 as you seem
to elude to.

Another nitpick, or to be overly pedantic Planescape Torment was
also released in the last 5 years.

I have not played Icewind Dale 2 to comment on it, first one I
disliked for same reason I disliked Diablos (1 and 2), both
were click fests and not imaginative, not giving ability to try
to pass the game by just talking out of a problem.

/apz, Power corrupts... Atomic power corrupts atomically!!!

Icewind Dale 2 (1)

mriker (571666) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876070)

I wasn't a big fan of Icewind Dale 1 either (partially because I hated D&D 2nd Edition), nor the Diablos, but after having recently completed Icewind Dale 2, I have to say that I loved it. It was released a couple of years ago, but it's the best game I've played in a very, very long time. The D&D 3rd Edition rules make a huge difference, but there are improvements with every other aspect of the game as well (including story). It's still very combat-centric, but it doesn't feel like a chore. It feels like you're really working towards something. Give it a shot.

Re:Stop repeating that PR spins. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9867724)

ToEE was the most bug ridden piece of crap of the last year and had the worst voice acting of the year.

Arcanum was bug ridden and had no game balance at all.

The bug ridden part also applies to both Fallout 1 or 2, with or without a patch. I'm not advocating that, but it barely hurt them any.

The whole "it must be from the orginal team" stuff is hillarious - the original team, black isle, produced more crap or canned software than good software in the last 5 years (lionheart anyone? canned fallout 3? canned van buren/bg3? Icewind Ripoff 2?).

Lionheart was NOT developed by Black Isle. It was published under their label. It was developed by Reflexive Entertainment. They're NOT responsible for being shut down right before their parent company, Interplay, went bankrupt, and having Fallout 3 cancelled in the process. As already stated, Van buren IS fallout 3.

Let Trioka Die (1)

Karma Farmer (595141) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867328)

Temple of Elemental Evil was released and very clearly not done. If Trioka didn't have able to scrape together the financial resources to finish ToEE, why would they be able to scrap up enough to make another Fallout?

Troika and Bethesda... (1)

Leffe (686621) | more than 10 years ago | (#9867769)

Both have made some of the buggiest games ever... But still, they have made some of the best games ever...

Imagine them working together, will we see more bugs or a better game :)?

I don't know, Bethesda's RPGs are not the same. (2, Insightful)

LiberalApplication (570878) | more than 10 years ago | (#9868571)

...sure, Bethesda has made *good* games, but they focus on entirely different aspects of role-playing. Troika and its veterans put out games that focused on meticulously detailed interactions with the game-world and its inhabitants, with thousands of lines of written dialogue that branched out depending on the player's decisions. Bethesda's were more of an MMORPG randomly-generated randomly-distributed game mechanic. I shudder to think of what Bethesda's rendition of a Fallout game might turn out like. Maybe conversations in this next Fallout game would be like this:

"Hello, Wanderer! I am Andrewbeard Johnsonstein."
"Tell me about yourself."
"I am Andrewbeard Johnsonstein, I am a waste dweller and I earn caps by collecting desert cacti and selling them to the herbalist."
*End conversation*

"Hello Wanderer! I am Jenniferbeard Smithjones"
"Tell me about yourself."
"I am jenniferbeard Smithjones. I live in this community and earn caps by raising brahmin.
*end conversation*

"Wanderer, you must aid me. I am being persecuted by the moneylender Aarondan Axelschmidt. I need 500 caps, but my donkey is broken. Will you give me 500 caps so I can pay Aarondan Axelschmidt?"
"Very well then. There is also a large engine I need, it is outside the town and I can show you on your map where it is. Aarondan Axelschmidt has said that he would be willing to absolve my debt if I bring him this large engine. Will you bring me this large engine so that I might repay Aarondan Axelschmidt?"

Now seriously, the one thing that turned me off of the otherwise techincally impressive Morrowind was the idiotic lack of depth in the randomly generated characters. I might as well have been playing NetHack.

Re:I don't know, Bethesda's RPGs are not the same. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9869326)

How dare you defame NetHack? Can you name any other game that will generate a kobold with a wand of magic missiles on the first level?

Re:I don't know, Bethesda's RPGs are not the same. (2, Insightful)

elendel (229983) | more than 10 years ago | (#9869404)

Quick note: Morrowind did not have randomly generated characters, or randomly generated dungeons, or randomly generated quests. Daggerfall did, with an immense game world - for Morrowind they scaled the world back quite a bit in order to be able to hand design everything.

Morrowind was all done ahead of time, with every little thing placed there specifically. Now, you could complain that they did not put enough thought into many of the NPCs, and failed to flesh most of them out properly, and you might have a point. But that would be due to lack of time/resources/whatever during development, not due to bad random generatedness.

fallout 3 (3, Insightful)

mmmjoy (666918) | more than 10 years ago | (#9869291)

Would anyone else not really mind if fallout 3 was released with the fallout 2 engine and graphics, as long as it had a long, diverse, and involving storyline?

I think that the "original developers" company is a bit much, but maybe just some of the original writers?

Fallout 2 was just Fallout with a few improvements and a new (much longer) story. fallout 3 doesnt really have to be much different to make the real fans happy.

Re:fallout 3 (2, Insightful)

Kingfox (149377) | more than 10 years ago | (#9869985)

I'd still like to see a few minor improvements to the engine, like the changes made in Arcanum and Fallout Tactics. Waypoints, easy stance changes, and more fleshed out vehicles come to mind.

Re:fallout 3 (1)

The Great Hamster (654491) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870599)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing Fallout 3 made with the Fallout Tactics engine. Aside from the mission-based storyline, and (imho) the horrible real-time combat system (I played through the game on turnbased), the interface and the ability to directly control the entire party were good improvements on Fallout 2. However, as the parent post says, the dev team, whomever is is, should focus on creating a top-notch story first, then worry about the interface.

Re:fallout 3 (1)

Ayaress (662020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9872164)

Real fans will be happy, but Fallout 1 and 2 were not big mega sellers. A new release with a now seven or eight year old engine will only bring in the die-hard fans who have stuck with the game since the initial release. If its bargain bin, they'll pick up a few impulse/curiosity buys, and if its free, they'll get all the freeloader tryouts, but they still have to shoot for a profit, or risk submarining themselves for future releases, so they need to make the game look nice enough to draw in new players as well as old players who have moved on to more advanced games since Fallout 2 came out in 1998.
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