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Debian Aims For September Release Date

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the slow-and-steady-wins-the-race dept.

Debian 282

An anonymous submitter writes "Debian Planet has a good discussion of the most recent release update from the new Debian release managers. The most interesting point is the current hard freeze of base+standard and an optimistic but doable release date in September."

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is this the one... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870050)

...that features the new 2.0 kernel?

Re:is this the one... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870086)

I am scared now. please someone read me the "My pet goatse"

Re:is this the one... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870249)

Troll? lol, someone wake up on the wrong side of bed? on their own? then drop their favourite porn mag in their cornflakes?

Re:is this the one... (0, Flamebait)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870259)

Don't exagerate! I'm sure Debian is up to the 2.2 kernel by now.

Re:is this the one... (1)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870423)


Interesting sig for someone calling himself "Cro Magnon"...

A Debian release! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870055)

I think they've decided to use a modern kernel now. We'll finally see a stable Debian with kernel upgraded to 2.0! W0000t!!!11!!

Re:A Debian release! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870075)

u r teh slow!

Debian... (5, Insightful)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870078)

As always, those of you who whine about Debian being out of date have probably never looked at the packages available in unstable and testing. Debian is a very fine distro for even desktop use.

Re:Debian... (5, Informative)

Television Set (801157) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870110)

Debian and Gentoo are similar in that they have a packaging/software installation system that is top notch (apt, portage), making it easiest to maintain, but a wickedly difficult installation method (dselect/tasksel) - however it is my understanding that the newer Debian will have a much easier installation setup. I look forward to trying it out.

Re:Debian... (3, Informative)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870147)

Its about as easy and painless as Slackware now. Which means they've got a user in me.

Re:Debian... (1)

Television Set (801157) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870184)

That sounds reasonable. I may put Debian on the laptop when Sarge's released. I use Slack a bit at work and find the install relatively painless.

Re:Debian... (1)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870215)

Since when? Slackware is text-based and doesn't automate much, but it's straight-forward and relativly easy to install. Debian is a complicated mess to install, far harder than Slackware.

Re:Debian... (1)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870248)

The latest ncurses installer isn't any more complicated than the Slack one. Give it a whirl.

Re:Debian... (1)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870288)

Is that the new Sarge installer?

Re:Debian... (2, Informative)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870323)

No clue.

http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/

labels such as "Woody" or "Sarge" have no real meaning to me since I tell apt to use "unstable" anyways.

Stable = Stale, unless you seek stability... or somthing.
Unstable - Latest packages. NOT unstable but high quality releases. They HAVE been tested.
Testing - this is the latest really unstable stuff. Installing from here will screw up your system eventually.

Re:Debian... (3, Informative)

Dasaan (644170) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870389)

Almost but not quite.
Stable = Stale, unless you seek stability... or somthing. [correct]
Unstable - Latest packages. NOT unstable but high quality releases. They HAVE been tested.[inncorrect - this is testing]
Testing - this is the latest really unstable stuff. Installing from here will screw up your system eventually.[incorrect - this is unstable]

To recap its stable then testing and finally unstable.

Re:Debian... (1)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870427)

Ok, I am stupid. Granted. Unstable worked pretty well for me though. I did manage to screw up my system with "testing" once though...

Re:Debian... (1)

lubricated (49106) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870404)

actually if that's wrong. Testing has been tested and is slated as the next stable release, unstable will eventually break your system(one time it broke pam so bad you couldn't login or su). experimental will break often.

Re:Debian... (3, Informative)

JPDeckers (559434) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870410)

Euhms, since when did testing and unstable switch ?!

Stable = Stable = Woody
Testing = Stuff not in stable yet, but in the queue = Sarge
Unstable = Living on the edge = sid (and will always be sid)

http://www.debian.org/releases/ [debian.org]

Re:Debian... (2, Informative)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870275)

I've never installed Slack, but I can tell you a bit about the old Debian installer.

It doesn't automate much more than keeping track of what stage of the install you're in.
It figures out the most likely two or three things you'll want to do next, and puts them at the top of your list of options.
Its questions are fairly straightforward (How do you want to partition your drives? What FS do you want? What partition should go with which mount point? What kernel modules do you want to install? DHCP? What IP address/netmask/gateway? etc.)

Granted, a lot of people won't know what kernel modules they'll need the first time they install...

Re:Debian... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870269)

Debian and Gentoo are similar in that they have a packaging/software installation system that is top notch (apt, portage), making it easiest to maintain, but a wickedly difficult installation method (dselect/tasksel) - however it is my understanding that the newer Debian will have a much easier installation setup.

Well, if you're willing to pay bucks, there's Libranet.. and if you're not, there's Mepis.
Both are great distros based on Debian.

Re:Debian... (3, Informative)

Malc (1751) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870395)

Dselect and tasksel? I bypass that step of the installer and just apt-get things as I find I need them. Obviously I realize that this doesn't work for everybody ;)

Re:Debian... (1)

ratamacue (593855) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870620)

I've been using Debian for years and have never touched dselect.

Re:Debian... (4, Interesting)

ron_ivi (607351) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870178)

End just as importantly, Debian Stable has been the one distro I could count on to have all the security patches and _only_ the security patches so I didn't have to mess with any incompatable changes in any libraries affecting my stuff. IMHO, Debian Stable has been the lowest maintanence OS I've ever encountered.

Re:Debian... (3)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870228)

Yeah, it's pretty delightful to only have to make sure your apt sources are good and include the security patches, then apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade every night.

On a side note, is Debian's attempt at creating a source package distribution still chugging? I was looking forward to having the option to get anything as a source package, a la Gentoo.

Re:Debian... (0, Troll)

Gabey (18874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870318)

it's pretty delightful to only have to make sure your apt sources are good and include the security patches

Yeah, because it's so difficult to have security.debian.org in your sources list, and it's not like it gets put in there for you when you install...oh wait...it does that? Imagine that.

There's no need to apt-get update/upgrade "every night" if you're on the security mailing list...which any competent Debian admin would be anyway

Re:Debian... (0, Offtopic)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870465)

What the hell are you talking about? Did I say it was difficult to change your sources list? And why would I, an admin only in my own house, bother to subscribe to the security mailing list? It'd be spam to me. You must have had some terrible childhood experiences to feel the need to make up reasons to criticize my post. How old are you?

You mods must be ovulating... (1, Offtopic)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870445)

Flamebait? Ridiculous.

eh? (4, Insightful)

theantix (466036) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870246)

I think Debian is a fine project, but to be fair you have to admit that the unstable and testing distributions break far too often to use on a production machine. Of course, I've heard that Lindows^H^H^H^Hare and Xandros do a fine job of producing a quality stable release from those packages, but that's not really the same as pure Debian. Using pure Debian is great if you like to tinker and don't mind when things stop working all of a sudden. But for a primary desktop machine it is too unstable and just doesn't cut it for me anymore since I fully ditched mswindows and rely on my linux installation for everyday work.

This isn't to say that Debian sucks -- it really doesn't suck at all and I love using stable for servers. It's just not a "fine desktop" for people who just want to get work or play done without applications suddenly failing on them.

Re:eh? (2, Informative)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870403)

Testing I agree. But unstable is pretty damn stable. Never broke any of my machines. Testing did though. The name scares people off. "Ooh its called unstable, thus it must be!"

Re:eh? (2, Interesting)

theantix (466036) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870532)

I used unstable for about a year, and in that time disabled X11, and another time it disabled Gnome. And one more than one occasion it broke FirePhoeFox. Those kind of problems can be worked around if you are willing to put in the time, but it's a hassle. I prefer the Fedora Core model of having a new stable platform every six months and doing a major upgrade at that time, so I can schedule and dedicate time to work out upgrading errors instead of having it happen when I need to get work done or just want to play a game or chat with my girlfriend or whatever.

Again, everyone is different and I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't mind the occasional failure and enjoy tinkering to get it all working. I just don't think that describes the average user though.

(eh?)^2 (3, Informative)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870450)

I think Debian is a fine project, but to be fair you have to admit that the unstable and testing distributions break far too often to use on a production machine

Maybe the grandparent does, but I don't have to admit any such thing on my testing system. Been running testing since... Geez, I can't even remember. Sometime around when RedHat 7.0 came out. No more or less stable than any other distro.

I'm sure that unstable is... wait for it... UNSTABLE. But testing? No problems.

(/me knocks wood)

Re:eh? (5, Interesting)

Peaker (72084) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870453)

Huh? Debian unstable doesn't break often at all. In fact it hasn't broken anything for me in more than 6 months, and I do it at least weekly. Lower frequency updates obviously break things even less frequently. I have other Operating Systems break far more often when tinkering with installed packages or upgrading stuff.

Re:eh? (4, Interesting)

robochan (706488) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870530)

It's just not a "fine desktop" for people who just want to get work or play done without applications suddenly failing on them.

I have to ask - have you actually even used the current Unstable release?
I'm not trying to insulting you, it's just that I've talked to many who've "heard that it's that way" without actually trying it. Can you provide some examples? I'm sure there are plenty, but as far as my own experience goes, I've used it for the last couple of years without hesitation. I'm not a developer, maintainer, nor a coder for that matter. I personally use Unstable on 3 machines for desktop systems, and install it for others, and have very rarely had anything break. I'm curious to hear some "real word" examples versus those who've "heard it's not for a dekstop".

Re:eh? (1)

theantix (466036) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870612)

Yeah, I've used Sid up until about eight months ago. Since you probably won't read it I'll paste in what I replied to another guy:

I used unstable for about a year, and in that time disabled X11, and another time it disabled Gnome. And one more than one occasion it broke FirePhoeFox. Those kind of problems can be worked around if you are willing to put in the time, but it's a hassle. I prefer the Fedora Core model of having a new stable platform every six months and doing a major upgrade at that time, so I can schedule and dedicate time to work out upgrading errors instead of having it happen when I need to get work done or just want to play a game or chat with my girlfriend or whatever.


Again, everyone is different and I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't mind the occasional failure and enjoy tinkering to get it all working. I just don't think that describes the average user though.


The last straw for me was when Gnome broke on me, KDE refused to install because of dependancy errors, and my laptop was in for repairs so I was stuck with nothing. I mean, I could have installed an alternate window manager, but it was just too much for me -- I just wanted to use my computer and not fight with it any longer. Now I have that and I'm a lot happier. If Debian would stabilize their platform every 6 months to a year I would probably switch back, since they have such a wonderful range of packages to choose from... but that's just not going to happen anytime soon I think.

By the way, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to stop using Debian -- I'm just trying to explain why I don't anymore. If it works for you that's awesome.

Re:Debian... (4, Informative)

robochan (706488) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870281)

As always, those of you who whine about Debian being out of date have probably never looked at the packages available in unstable and testing. Debian is a very fine distro for even desktop use.

And to top off including 13,000+ packages, they've even beaten [debian.org] the release times between Microsoft's barebones desktop OSes Windows XP [com.com] and Longhorn [3drealms.com]

Re:Debian... (3, Insightful)

mst76 (629405) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870324)

As always, those who defend Debian point to the availability of Unstable and Testing. Please get a clue, there is a reason that they are called Unstable and Testing and not Debian-New and Debian-Newer. They are not slightly-less stable versions of Stable. They do not always get security updates on time. They may leave major packages like KDE broken for weeks. When you install Unstable, it depends on your luck at the time what works and what doesn't. Near release time Unstable is often pretty OK, mid-release cycles major things may break. And you know why? Because Unstable and Testing are meant for DEVELOPERS, not end-users.

I have great admiration of the Debian project and philosophy, but frankly I think it's a little too ambitious. They basically want to get a huge number of packages all stable across a huge number of platforms for release. The fact that so many users recommend Unstable or even Testing to end-users points out flaws in the development model IMO.

Re:Debian... (5, Insightful)

Erwos (553607) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870373)

"As always, those of you who whine about Debian being out of date have probably never looked at the packages available in unstable and testing."

And for those of us who've used Debian before, we can tell you that, every so often, unstable just breaks. It's not like it's planned, but the fact is, with so many package maintainers, something's bound to go wrong - and it usually does every few months. At that point, you've got to go and uninstall and reinstall packages to make dpkg not complain about weird circular dependency problems - an irony for a distribution that so many claim is the answer to "dependency hell".

You can't test to see how reliable Debian Unstable is, either. I mean, "Debian unstable works great for me" is kind of confusing as a statement. Did it work right a month ago? How about 36 days ago? 67 days ago? That is to say, it's impossible to actually be sure that it's working right any particular day because Debian unstable is constantly changing. Debian stable, SuSE, and RedHat simply don't have this problem, and it's why many people are not enamored of running Debian off the unstable packages repository.

Thus, Debian unstable is simply _not_ what you want for reliable updating and pain-free maintenance. Debian is many great things, but realize that it has big faults once you move out of stable. It pisses me off to no end when people proclaim Debian to be the most stable (in reference to the stable branch) and most up-to-date (in reference to unstable). It's the most stable OR the most up-to-date, not both.

Just thought I'd get that off my chest. I'm a big Debian proponent, but I'm not going to lie about what's going on with it.

-Erwos

Re:Debian... (1)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870517)

I did not claim that Debian unstable and testing were stable.

I did not claim that Debian unstable is what you want for "reliable updating and pain-free maintenance."

I stated that Debian is not sorely out of date as that is the most common critique of the distribution. Why did you extrapolate so much meaning from such little text?

Re:Debian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870602)

Unstable may break. Yeah. I'd NEVER EVER reccomend any use unstable for anything other than testing the latest and greatest, or doing development work in UNSTABLE. That's why it's called that.

Over the last three or so years, I've only had the most minor hiccups in TESTING--things that are easily fixable, or are resolved quickly enough. Testing is just fine for desktop use, IMO. It's the right blend of new stuff, and stability--enough so to keep one from going insane one way or the next. Only a very few packages are not updated regularly.

Re:Debian... (1)

snerfu (43580) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870380)

The debian installer is not out of date, infact its one of the easiest. The debian installer's kernel is however wildly out of date, and you have to jump through hoops to get a reasonably new network card up and running on the net install. A good direction for debian to move is to release an updated installer ISO every few months with the latest drivers or a new kernel.

Re:Debian... (1)

mattrope (212499) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870381)

As always, those of you who whine about Debian being out of date have probably never looked at the packages available in unstable and testing.

I think most of us that actually run Debian use testing or unstable, so we're not the ones complaining. I think most of the complaints come from people who try to switch to Debian, but then find that the kernels on the official CD images are too old to support their hardware (e.g., doesn't recognize their network card). Granted, there are other ways of installing Debian (knoppix, anaconda, sarge install images, etc.), but unfortunately people trying to install Debian for the first time often aren't aware of these. I think that's the real source of the "out of date" complaints we hear so often.

Re:Debian... (1)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870498)

Other ways of installing Debian don't always work right. I've installed Knoppix, but when I tried upgrading to "real" Debian, it borked KDE and probably other stuff too.

Re:Debian... (1)

Espectr0 (577637) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870462)

Still with the "use unstable" rant? I am sorry, debian is just not cut to work as a desktop distro. Too much patent issues, too much packages not available because not all platforms support them, too much old packages, even in unstable. They are still debating if XFree 4.2 should be default. Even if you are using unstable, packages keep changing way too much, and lots of packages need unstable glibc versions and such.

Backports.org is the solution, too bad it's too small yet.
I like debian, but it will never be a good desktop distro. I just would love a stable, i386 fork that keeps the base proven and stable and have packages for non critical, recent user apps.

Re:Debian... (3, Informative)

robochan (706488) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870569)

They are still debating if XFree 4.2 should be default.

huh?

$ cat /etc/issue
Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 \n \l
$ dpkg -l xserver-xfree86 |grep ii
ii xserver-xfree8 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6 the XFree86 X server

Re:Debian... (1)

chunderfest (755217) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870621)

even more to the point, if you want the latest'n'greatest for your i386 Debian desktop before sarge releases, backports.org and its superset apt-get.org are your friends. (They do also cover other arches but not as well; I have put several sparc & ppc packages on apt-get.org myself).

If what you want still isn't there in woody-compatible form, I have a radical suggestion: grab a source tarball and compile it yourself. You're probably just looking for a specific application or three, so it's no big deal; that's what /usr/local/ is for, and debian doesn't touch /usr/local/, so go nuts. Even better, if you're up for it grab the debianised source from unstable, try making your own woody debs, and put them up on apt-get.org for others to enjoy. It is called a community for a reason.

For those who'd say "but [X|Gnome|KDE|Moz|OOo] is waaay too big for me to compile myself": recent versions of those things are all already available for woody, just not from debian.org proper, in i386 form at least. Look before you whine!

WHAT? Sarge might be RELEASED? (5, Funny)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870090)

Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

Let's see... (5, Funny)

wiredog (43288) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870308)

Doom III released... Check

Sarge released... Check

Slashdot works better with Internet Explorer than with Firefox... Check

Walls bleeding...Check.

Yup, it's the End Times.

Re:Let's see... (2, Funny)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870416)

Yup, it's the End Times.

*bzzt* Sorry, you're wrong, thanks for playing. You forgot the perennial favorite:

Duke Nukem Forever... Who the hell knows.

Re:Let's see... (2, Funny)

garignak (611737) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870429)

Close, but not yet. Duke Nukem Forever has not been released, yet. So, we're safe for now. ;)

ode to 503 (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870092)


five oh three
we've seen thee a lot two odd numbers sandwiching naught

seeing a good olde friend
such a grand time
a prime, a zero, another prime

we hope slashdot
doesn't fix their site
so we may enjoy you every night

grub

Re:ode to 503 (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870192)

At least this is Offtopic. That's better than 503 == No topic.

Re:ode to 503 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870356)

They really should replace the 503 message with this text...

Only with Firefox (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870473)

Haven't seen it yet with IE.

Re:Only with Firefox (1)

selderrr (523988) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870514)

Safari is lobotomized too.... Someone suggested killing cookies, but that is against my religion

Re:Only with Firefox (1)

Unnngh! (731758) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870523)

Haven't seen it yet with IE.

You must not be looking very hard...

Nope (4, Informative)

pavon (30274) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870562)

I have seen it with IE, Safari, and Firebird, using Windows 2k, OS X, and Slackware. 503 errors have nothing to do with the browser, just the server.

What is happening? (1)

Barlo_Mung_42 (411228) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870548)

I would be nice if an editor would post something to let us know what is going on. The site comes back up and goes on with no explanation.
And that is text book bad customer service.

Debian Noobie (4, Interesting)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870105)

I know of Debian's aim of a safe, stable distribution as opposed to cutting edge, but don't know how they go about it.

to achieve their aims do they bug fix other peoples' code? do they inform the original authors of a problem? if so, what effects on code ownership does this have - does the Debian team become co-author?

anyone got any interesting stories about the Debian process along these lines?

Re:Debian Noobie (5, Informative)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870160)

to achieve their aims do they bug fix other peoples' code?

Sometimes. Other times, they simply "backport" bug fixes to older versions.

do they inform the original authors of a problem?

Gentoo always sends its fixes upstream when appropriate. I would imagine Debian does the same.

if so, what effects on code ownership does this have - does the Debian team become co-author?

Depends on the author of the original code and the patch. Some will require you to assign copyright to them, others don't really care because it's all GPL'd anyway.

Re:Debian Noobie (1)

Sasha Slutsker (799836) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870197)

You probably know this, but one of the things Debian does to stay as bug-free as possible is have an extensive bug database [debian.org] . It really helps them.

Re:Debian Noobie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870256)

Original (upstream) authors are usually informed of problems while any serious problems with stable packages are fixed by Debian maintainers patching the older versions with some code from newer versions of packages. Almost all packages have Debian-specific patches applied. (These are found in the .diff files in the source trees.) A similar process is used for most GNU/Linux distributions. Debian differs in release schedules; most stable releases (e.g. Potato, Woody, and Sarge) are more than a year apart.

Check bug reports at
bugs.debian.org [debian.org]
for examples.

Re:Debian Noobie (5, Informative)

lems1 (163074) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870364)

To really see the debian process at work one would need to be a member of one of the many mailing lists (depending on what your interests are) and/or participate in the IRC meetings or regular IRC chatrooms for many debian-based or debian-specific pieces of software.
For instance, I usually hang out in the #debian-desktop channel, and i'm subscribe to the debian-gtk-gnome mailing lists. In there I get to help others fix their problems, help developers find bugs and re-do packages, etc.. etc... Usually all bugs reported to the bugs.debian.org bug repository or to the mailing list get sent upstream.
After years of distro-hopping from various Linux distributions, I find Debian to be the one that gives me the most confidence in all senses: from a security point of view, from a non-vendor "lock-in" point of view, and even more importantly from a stability point of view.
Surprisingly enough, I run debian "unstable" as my main workstation at work and at home, and I rarely see a piece of software that breaks (this is despite the fact that I have become an apt-get junkie! Which means that I usually update as soon as there is some new piece of code added to the "unstable" branch).

The future version of Debian stable, code named "Sarge", is a very very solid distro as it is at this moment. I have started to exclusively install this distro on friend's and family's desktops as they move away from other OSes and welcome the Linux beauty into their lives. Out of 20 or so "upgrades" i have done, only one has gone back to the dark side after a month or so using it. Usually after they get to use a very well configured (and stable) desktop based on Debian, they never go back.

My hope is that Sarge becomes a rock-solid, easy to install, modern OS a la Mandrake or Xandros, but totally royalty free. And so far I believe that very goal has been achieve, with a few things missing here and there that might be addressed in the near future. (Like the need for a GUI to the installer, and a way to manage drivers for hardware from a GUI).

Re:Debian Noobie (1)

robochan (706488) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870440)

You might be interested in reading this article [debian.org] on Debian's policies as well as the Debian Policy Manual [debian.org] itslef. They will answer a lot of your questions.

Re:Debian Noobie (1)

emeitner (513842) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870524)

It is a very common for bugs reported to the Debian bug tracking system to be referred to the developers(upstream) by the Debian package maintainer. When 'upstream' fixes the bug the package maintainer packages the new release and submits the package to the repository.

Many Debian package maintainers are also developers on the same project. Other are just packagers.

If a packager fixes a bug in the upstream source for a Debian package,they will send that off to the software developers. If anybody gets "credit" for the work, the packager will.

I'm not sure there exsits an entity called "Debian Team"
See:
Debian Developer's Reference- Managing Packages [debian.org]

Re:Debian Noobie (1)

xeoron (639412) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870534)

Debian is cutting edge if one runs unstable or testing. Believe it or not, unstable is often quite stable and if something is broken during a release, it is often fixed in less than a day.

Let's try to be orderly (5, Funny)

Minwee (522556) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870132)

Okay, this is a Debian thread, you all know the drill. Everybody who wants to make a crack about Debian packages being at least twenty years old by the time they are released form a line to the right.

Zealotous supporters of other Linux distributions over by the wall. If you have no clue how apt works but still want to say that rpm/emerge/tar is far superior, just raise your hand when we call on you.

If you think you're being pretty darn rebelious by railing against the use of "GNU/Linux", then stand over by the wading pool. We'll get to you once the grown-ups have had their say.

BSD supporters can congregate near the exit. We've heard some rumours about you and I want to make sure you have a clear path to the ambulance in case anything happens.

Everyone who thinks Yggdrasil is the one and only true distribution, there's a special thread for you over in the cafeteria.

Doom 3 pirated--news that Slashdot won't report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870242)

Gamespot [gamespot.com] and the BBC [bbc.co.uk] are reporting that several thousands of illegal copies of Doom 3 were pirated over the weekend, shaping up to be one of the most pirated pieces of software of all time. One technology correspondent estimates that Activision and id Software lost up to "$2,749,500 worth of software at Doom 3's $54.99 sticker price." This setback is set to cost Activision and id Software millions. Activision has no comment, but Matt Pierce of PC Gamer has some harsh words. John Carmack is reportedly not happy. The game is legally scheduled for release today.

Best news all day! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870329)

Yay! Sock it to the man!

Re:Doom 3 pirated--news that Slashdot won't report (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870394)

linux binaries...? No, copyright infringement in this case would be the preserve of Windows users, so why don't Microsoft or the BSA report the news instead! Howabout the BSA announces "Windows users are software pirates and software pirates support terrorism"? Yes Slashdot is the most bias newsource known to man - moron!

Re:Doom 3 pirated--news that Slashdot won't report (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870414)

Popular new video game pirated! News at 11!

In other news, popular movies and music files are often pirated on the Internet shortly before their public release.

Major online news site, Slashdot, has remained mum on the issue. When asked for comment, Rob 'CmdrTaco' Malda had this to say:

"Well, duh!"

Re:Let's try to be orderly (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870396)

I won't even ask where us Mac OS X people are supposed to stand. :)

Re:Let's try to be orderly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870439)

You just did!

Re:Let's try to be orderly (1)

larkost (79011) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870501)

We have the nice plush recliners in the living room...

Netinstall!!! (5, Informative)

Douglas Simmons (628988) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870138)

I *highly* recommend doing new installs with the 110meg iso net-installer that you can grab here: debian.org/devel/debian-installer [debian.org]

It's beta 4 of Sarge but I think it lets you throw on Woody as well. Netinstalls are good obviously because it's a small DL, you end up DLing only what you need, and what you do download is fresh regardless of when you burnt the CD.

Also, I'm batting a thousand with this installer as far as getting X video working without a hitch... I can't say that for the sound server, but as they say, if you're interested in sound, you shouldn't be running Debian. :)

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

andreyw (798182) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870180)

Ditto. The new installer kicks some major ass. I've tried both the x86 and PPC versions and they are both smooth. Frankly, unless you're some sort of big-wig deploying Debian in your company, you don't really care about "new releases" per se. As long as the package repository under 'unstable' gets populated hourly with updated packages, all is good.

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

Savafan1 (3969) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870185)

I used this net-installer on my laptop, and the sound worked without me having to do anything.

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870224)

Last time I installed Debian (a month or so ago on VMWare), I did a net install with six floppy images. Is that still going to be possible?

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

Dasaan (644170) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870280)

If you still have those floppies then yes. If not then probably.

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870390)

installers [debian.org]

Just scroll down to the i386 section and you'll find a floppy installer.

Re:Netinstall!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870455)

if you're interested in sound, you shouldn't be running Debian

Yeah. WTF is up with that? I had an easier time finding the Vogons plans to demolish the Earth than I did finding docs on how to get sound working in KDE on Sarge and then figuring out that
aptitude install xmms
shorts you a necessary library. It pains me to say it, but Windows has spoiled me WRT sound "just working" upon install.

Re:Netinstall!!! (1)

Vilim (615798) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870582)

Sound has always worked perfectly for me with Debian (3 boxes, Audigy 2, Crappy integrade Ali POS (laptop), no-name POS integrated AC97 crap). One of your problems may be the use of the 2.4 kernel. I find that it is alot less likely to work (bigger chance of mistake) with the 2.4 kernel due to the lack of integrated ASLA. Give 2.6 a shot

Doom 3 pirated--news that Slashdot won't report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870195)

Gamespot [gamespot.com] and the BBC [bbc.co.uk] are reporting that several thousands of illegal copies of Doom 3 were pirated over the weekend, shaping up to be one of the most pirated pieces of software of all time. One technology correspondent estimates that Activision and id Software lost up to "$2,749,500 worth of software at Doom 3's $54.99 sticker price." This setback is set to cost id Software and Activision millions. Activision has no comment, but Matt Pierce of PC Gamer has some harsh words. John Carmack is reportedly not happy. The game is legally scheduled for release today.

Re:Doom 3 pirated--news that Slashdot won't report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870286)

Why should they report it. Doom 3 isn't getting special treatment by the "pirates".

I'm betting a great many who have already bought the game (pre-order) downloaded it to get it as soon as possible. Others, like me, tried it, found it to be boring, and gave it up.

I'm glad I didn't have to pay $54.99 to find out I thought the game sucked ass.

That's really good... (4, Insightful)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870232)

With all that flame war nonsense about communication (which sucks unfortunately in Debian) and AMD64 inclusion in Sarge, it's great that someone has cleared mind and moved forward. No offence to Debian AMD64 guys, thought. But they should at least understand that Sarge release already TOO late.

September? (5, Funny)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870234)

Did they specify the year?

Re:September? (1)

Scarblac (122480) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870379)

They probably meant the Usenet-september. You know, the one that started in 1993 and that will never end.

Why this obession with release dates? (3, Insightful)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870245)

I've never understod this obsession with debian release dates. Since you can apt-get dist-upgrade every day to keep up to date, "release date" is simply the assigning of a particular date to a set of file versions.

Utterly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, if you ask me.

Re:Why this obession with release dates? (5, Insightful)

MBAFK (769131) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870371)

We use Debian on our production kit. I would not like to 'chase' versions with apt daily, weekly or monthly. To us having a stable set of boxes is extremely important, an official release is a big deal to us and the long term plans for our servers are based on these releases.

I used to do apt-get dist-upgrade all the time on my workstation but it is not acceptable for some computers.

Re:Why this obession with release dates? (2, Insightful)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870526)

You apt-get upgrade the debian/stable boxes regularly to get the latest fixes, right?

I don't see how the set of versions of a debian/stable upgraded continuously up till date X would differ from one installed with a release dated X. So the goal is the same.

Now, since it's the stable branch, updates are safe -- at least compared to not upgrading and being stuck with security issues. So the path is safe.

If you believe otherwise, if being "stable" is so important that you can't rely on [blindly] upgrading at any point between releases, then I don't see how you can [blindly] upgrade at release, in which case again, the actual date doesn't matter since if you're going to "vet" the release anyhow... well, you could do that to any point between releases.

That's how I see it.

Re:Why this obession with release dates? (1)

chazwurth (664949) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870484)

Don't the stable releases also mean new installation CDs with the most recent installer? The last time I installed Debian on anything was just after the Woody release and I remember the installer being somewhat less than excellent. Thus I could see a release mattering, especially to new users who have never installed Debian before. Or do they release CDs with an updated installer more frequently than they do Official Stable New Version releases?

Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not a regular Debian user and I don't know much about how their releases work.

Re:Why this obession with release dates? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870605)

"release date" is simply the assigning of a particular date to a set of file versions.

Seriously.

They don't bother doing a massive feature freeze and bugfixing effort or anything, they just wait till Setember 25th and say "alright, lets call this a new version, it's been a while".

Just go through some of the Debian mailing lists for 30 seconds and you might just notice that making a Debian release is a little more hard work than assigning a number to a set of file version. I think some of those developers might be a little pissed off if you told them it was "utterly unimportant" to their faces.

One possible reason for slow releases (5, Funny)

moberry (756963) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870270)

There are ony SOO many toy story characters, after this there going to have to start naming them after the etch-a-sketch, piggy bank, etc. on the other hand.. there have been 2 sequals since woody was released.

Now all we have to do.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870421)

Is wait for Duke Nukem Forever to be released and wait for the end.

FaiLzors (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870480)

Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870510)

By September, Fedora Core 9 will be out, and will crush your puny Debian! ;^)

503 Errors & ^D HTML (1)

oiarbovnb (728906) | more than 10 years ago | (#9870538)

This is totally off-topic, sorry 'bout that. Didn't know where else to submit this question...

How come I get 503 errors? I've been experiencing this for about 2 weeks now. Didn't seem to be happening before. It'd be one thing if it was all the time, but it's not. Is it slashdot, or my choice of browser (firefox)?

2nd question is: how come sometimes there is text that renders as ^D^D^D^D^D^D sometimes. I think it's when someone tries to use a special character that my browser (again firefox) doesn't support, but I don't know how to fix this. Again, slashdot is the only place I experience this.

Thanks for the help,

Oiarbovnb

Debsux (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9870558)

September when!? 2008? 2009? 2012? What will be some new features? X? 2.4 kernel? You know what folks, instead of waiting for the "new" Debian, go ahead and download and install MINIX. You'll probably get some of the same "bleeding edge" features.
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