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Manhunt Violence Story Sees Updates, Threats

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the sigh dept.

The Courts 115

Thanks to Blue's News for covering the latest developments in a UK videogame violence story, in which the Rockstar North-created game Manhunt was very allegedly implicated in "a grisly murder" - it's revealed: "The game was present in the victim's home, not the killer's... This may present a problem for those looking to turn this case to their own ends." Nonetheless, previously mentioned attorney Jack Thompson is jumping straight on the case, even from an continent away, according to GameDaily, as he rages: "We are going to destroy Rockstar, you can count on that... [ESA head] Doug Lowenstein makes Saddam Hussein look like a post-reformed Pinocchio." Finally, Gamesindustry.biz injects a thoughtful note into the mayhem, arguing: "Rockstar do not emerge from this affair smelling of roses... game makers could help the case a lot by trying to push the boundaries in terms of gameplay, rather than gore."

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"Pushing boundaries of gameplay instead of gore" (4, Insightful)

gabec (538140) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875644)

I don't know about you guys, but I for one consider GTA to have been revolutionary in its gameplay experience. That's all GTA is about! The gameplay! They immerse you in a wild world with, it so happens, moral ambiguity.

Feel free to jump on the morality bandwagon (or create one if you can't find it). I for one will continue blithely on, cackling with glee at a world that lets me do everything I would never consider doing in my own.

Re:"Pushing boundaries of gameplay instead of gore (1)

gabec (538140) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875674)

Uh, I meant "Rockstar's games, such as GTA, Max Payne, Manhunt, etc." rather than "GTA", as, well, the article is specifically about Manhunt and I only managed to reference GTA. Tee hee.

Re:"Pushing boundaries of gameplay instead of gore (2, Interesting)

sni (801877) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876269)

First off, I never had a problem with gore in games and still don't, and I don't think it "hurt" me having seen it as a kid, either. I'm just not "into it" for the sake of it myself.

I have however seen a fair amount of people who no doubt enjoy the violence first and foremost and to lengths that can get fucking creepy. PERIOD. I just had such an encounter a few days ago, a 25 year old who kept attacking corpses lying on the ground in gta3:vc, making noises with his mouth. (later on I realized he does the same with movies heh!)

This is not the fault of the games, to the contrary, the game is a harmless way to signal you have issues.. but I'm sure these people would say the same thing, "I don't play it for the gore". If I had to guess at reasons for liking violent media, then this particular person seemed to be fascinated by the fact that others had "such sick ideas" (quoted), he even seemed to daydream of taking revenge on people who hurt him etc. and this stuff made him feel better about having such daydreams. Okay, really creepy extreme example of a person with issues - but those people play these games too, and of just making a buck off them and otherwise sweeping their underlying issues under the rug is what I can't stand. Pointing fingers would be counterproductive, I don't have any real suggestions or solutions - but don't ignore it.

Re:"Pushing boundaries of gameplay instead of gore (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877379)

manhunt though is an average stealthpuzzle game, nothing to be proud of.

not really that violent either on what it shows, the violence part is pretty boring after a while and you just kill a bunch of criminals anyways in the game(that beg you to kill 'em).

it's a trendy excuse though("it's all due to damn videogames"), and people need excuses(they could just as well be books or movies.. ).. but blaming something that was found at victims home??? that's just fucking lame.

Re:"Pushing boundaries of gameplay instead of gore (2, Insightful)

ALeavitt (636946) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878116)

The amazingly revolutionary thing about GTA was that it was just as violent as you were. If you wanted to hop in a car and drive around, completely obeying all traffic laws, and not participate in any violence, it was possible. Granted, there were some missions that required violence, but the missions themselves weren't required to actually play the game. Sure, you have the freedom to grab a baseball bat and beat a hooker to death, but you also had the freedon not to. The game is only as violent and depraved as the person playing it. So many of the heinous acts that people complain about in GTA weren't a necessary part of the gameplay, they were simply not prohibited by an artificial set of rules. It isn't the violence that people are afraid of, it's the freedom to commit violence and what the absence of restraint allows them to do when they don't feel like restraining themselves.

Important information! (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879604)

Ok, this is me being vaguely serious here, although with my usual truth-perceived-as-racism perspective.

Here's some facts.

1. Both the victim and murderer were NIGGERS.
2. The victim was murdered with a Claw Hammer.
3. In Manhunt, you are a White man killing White supremacists.
4. A Claw Hammer is not one of the weapons in the game.

Clearly, this is yet another example of Black on Black Violence (my four favorite words) being used as an excuse to demonize the 'evil white man'. Of course, they wouldn't take any responsibility, as it's clearly Evil White Man's fault that the game was written. And it's clearly Evil White Man's fault that they permitted their children to play with games which, understand this here, THEY ARE NOT LEGALLY ENTITLED TO PLAY! And obviously, it was an Evil White Man who picked up the hammer and de-brained the victim, using the murderer like some kind of chocolate flesh-puppet.

Maybe if the Pakeezahs bothered to take the fucking bone out of their noses and used a bit of common sense, they'd realise that Nigger culture, with it's perpetual fixation on 'popping caps' in 'asses' is far more evil than anything a computer geek could invent.

Once again, poor parenting seeks to blame everyone else apart from themselves.

There is a solution to this, and that is the reinstatement of Apartheid. If Evil White Man's culture is so wicked, then they don't deserve to be a part of it.

Bah to idiots (5, Insightful)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875645)

If someone wants to play a game about killing Hell spawn demons (Doom 3 refrence : check), eating babies (Dunno :check) or stabbing old ladies then they should be able to. It's not their fault if some nutter goes off the rails and ends up killing someone.

I'm sick of hearing "GAMES DID IT!" because it's a cheap excuse for a fucked up society. You can't blame the car makers for a drunk driver so lets not blame the Playstation for the fucked up little kid.

Mod me troll if you wish, I don't overly care for karma compared to my opinions on this topic. I think the world is fucked up and blaming my hobby, I can earn Karma back but I can't earn back ignoring my opinions and staying silent in a discussion I feel important.

Re:Bah to idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9875874)

I'm sick of hearing "GAMES DID IT!" because it's a cheap excuse for a fucked up society.

What are the components of a fucked up society? Could fucked up entertainment sources be one of the components?

You can't blame the car makers for a drunk driver so lets not blame the Playstation for the fucked up little kid.

In this analogy, the Car is really like the computer, whereas the alcohol is more like the video game. But you can lay some blame on the liquor companies. If you doubt me, what about when we hold drug dealers responsible for drug violence? The Drug Dealer didn't kill the tourist and steal their money, the junkie did it!

Re:Bah to idiots (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875907)

You can't in any of these cases. We live in a free society and we can do as we wish. We just need to know what is acceptable...

I've played many banned games (Mortal Kombat, GTA etc.) and yet I've never commited a single crime, looking at the sales figures seems the same can be said for most fans. You can pick out just about anything and find a few people involved with a screw lose.

Remember all this crap aimed at movies a while back? Same thing but gamers don't tend to speak up so much and find it harder to get alot of people to go "I played it, didn't do me no harm", where as movies will do this easily.

Re:Bah to idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9875991)

eating babies (Dunno :check)

Scientology: the video game!

Re:Bah to idiots (1)

saden1 (581102) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876005)

The parents of the kid who committed murder really screwed up. They should be blaming themselves rather than the game.

I do think, however, a better system of not allowing minors to purchase these highly violent games in order. These games should be sold at the counter with photo id checks.

Re:Bah to idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9876195)

Or maybe the kid was just fucked up on his own right? Why is it necessarily the parents' fault?

Re:Bah to idiots (1)

saden1 (581102) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877984)

because kids are kids and they should know what their kid was doing. They were clueless in terms of what their kid was up to.

Re:Bah to idiots (1)

adam.skinner (721432) | more than 10 years ago | (#9882118)

The parents of the kid? How about the kid?

"Save the whales? What about 'save the tuna'?"

If the kid were to drop a piano on someones head, would Warner Brothers be to blame?

Punish the guilty. If you were this kid's parent, and this hit you out of the blue, how would you feel? "I'm at fault because I'm not as in touch with my kid as I should have been?" Join the club.

It's not an "either-or" kind of thing (2, Interesting)

JavaRob (28971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876258)

First, to clear up a few things -- apparently the fact that the victim owned the game isn't really meaningful, because they (killer and victim) played the game together (so where they played doesn't really make a difference). Second, the police investigating the crime *are* saying the reason for the killing was "robbery", not "videogame induced psychosis" or some such nonsense -- it seems like mostly this lawyer who's demonizing the game.

Okay, now onto the interesting part of the discussion. It's nuts to say that the game "caused" the murder. But it's also short-sighted to say that it couldn't possibly have been a factor. Yes, the movies you watch and the games you play affect your state of mind, and your thought patterns. Not necessarily permanently... but they affect it. If they didn't, what would be the point? That's what's cool about a good action flick or videogame -- you get involved; you get an adrenaline rush and a feeling of power. After playing a really immersive game you walk around for a few hours seeing the *real* world in such a different light. Now, most of us have a decent enough moral compass that we know how much of that world you can actually recreate. One of my friends went a little far when we were 10 or so, and shot me with his BB gun, which hurt like hell, and he felt bad (and didn't do that again). That's normal, right? Sure, the "shoot the running target" popped into his head mostly because of the videogames we played -- and he had a lightning-quick trigger finger in the games -- but it was still well in the range of kids learning "that will hurt your friend, and we don't want to hurt our friends". He could just as well have carelessly kicked a soccer ball into my face. Our videogame experiences were balanced off with a lot of normal social interaction, with adults around, where we could learn about peaceful conflict resolution and so on. We didn't solve arguments with hammers.

So the games are not inherently "evil". HOWEVER, if your only role model for living life and resolving conflicts is Manhunt, you're going to be one screwed-up kid.

Bottom line -- with decent parenting, there's no question that a kid can survive any kind of video game... but I suspect a part of decent parenting would be keeping your kid from playing these kinds of realistically violent games, especially where the game requires acting out behavior that is so totally against the morals you're trying to teach them. Yeah, they're going to have to sort out their own way in a morally relative world when they're older (and choices are more complicated); but they'll have a much easier time if they've got the basics down already by the time they get there.

Adult gaming... Personally, I don't play modern shooters (since the first DOOM, really). They make me nauseous. The spinning walls, the gore, the unrelenting tension... I just don't find it fun at all, and I do wonder how good it is for one to frequently engage in virtual brutality like that. But adults gaming is a different animal -- most of us already have basic habits for interacting with others that are pretty worn in. But kids who don't have those habits yet (and the worse their parents/peers/teachers are, the older they may be) just don't need that.

Here's a quasi-parallel situation to think about -- why is it that mothers teach their daughters to be "nice" to their dolls? ("No, honey -- you'll hurt baby's arm if you pull it like that") Because it's practice for dealing with *real* babies, and real other little girls. Pulling hair is bad, soft patting is good, etc.. And in reverse, children of abusive parents often beat up their dolls or toys -- they're just practicing what they've learned (and sadly, they'll frequently abuse their own kids the same way, years later).

Just my thoughts -- sorry if I started rambling a bit. :)

Re:Bah to idiots (1)

johnek (740814) | more than 10 years ago | (#9880068)

You know I'm starting to believe that these people are right. Maybe videos games are the cause of all violence in society. I mean it has to be right. And I have a perfect example. I heard that billy the kid had a bootleg copy of GTA III and thats why he killed all those people. It's time for America to wake the f*&K up and realize that we are responsible for our actions. We have to stop blaming everyone and everything else. The day the happens, the entire world will be a better place.

Jack Thompson.... a lawyer? (3, Interesting)

CMiYC (6473) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875663)

I read the Gamebiz interview and I'm pretty surprised that Thompson is a lawyer. Any decently competent lawyer knows better than to say "we are going to destory the other side" and throw out name calling. Until the last half of the interview, I thought the article was a joke... At least he'll make this whole affair entertaining to follow.

Re:Jack Thompson.... a lawyer? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9877128)

I know! I mean, isn't calling someone a "pathological liar" just slightly slanderous?

It's not as if Jack Thompson himself has quite got all his marbles.

Re:Jack Thompson.... a lawyer? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877391)

but if you're out there just to extract few bucks from the victims family and for fishing some possible money out of the publisher then it makes perfect sense because it isn't about who would win in court.

Re:Jack Thompson.... a lawyer? (1)

joper90 (669321) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877439)

link.. ? theres no search on www.gamebiz.com.au

Re:Jack Thompson.... a lawyer? (1)

BobTheLawyer (692026) | more than 10 years ago | (#9883418)

It is a joke. There is no basis for a lawsuit against Rockstar in the UK. Note it's not just that he'd lose: there is no cause of action under which he could sue.

Well... (5, Funny)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875682)

At least they didn't show a breast! Now THAT would have been evil and would have corrupted the minds of everyone that saw it.

Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (4, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875701)

"Thompson: There have been dozens of murders that have been tied to their products throughout the world, so it's just a matter of piling on, and we will do that. "

IF their have been over 24 murders that can be linked to rockstar why doesn't he name ONE?

THis is just like the crap people like this pulled concerning D&D and Heavy Metal.

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (2, Informative)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875761)

Should Playboy be sued for creating rapists? Discuss.

The game in question was M18 or R or whatever. Neither of the boys should have had access to it, and any parent noticing that they did should have been able to make an informed decision to remove it from their possession.

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876072)

Some Insane 'religious' people in the US feel that those that read Playboy (which they consider hard core porn) should be sent to prison.

I WISH I was joking.

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (1)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876433)

And there are places elsewhere where looking at a Playboy is grounds for decapitation.

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876207)

"IF their have been over 24 murders that can be linked to rockstar why doesn't he name ONE?"

Remember when those kids blamed GTA3 for sniping a car that drove by? That just stank of "Uh oh, how can we get out of trouble? I know, my mom is afraid of me playing violent games, so..."

Why do I have the feeling that most if not all of those 24 cases fall into that category? I mean, seriously, if games could control peeps like that, then why not more serious in-game advertising?

Stupid Universes... (1)

FreyarHunter (760978) | more than 10 years ago | (#9880399)

What do the societies afraid of? Mind Control from an alternate universe? This has been said multiple times (Too many in my opinion) but it still needs to be said. "Video Games Do NOT cause these problems."

Everyone before me has said that it's is the parent's decision to choose whether or not it should be in the possession of thier child. I am not of legal age, but I know that I should not blame a Video Game for my screwed up life. What screwes it up is high-school and Junior High...

I play a game like True Crimes, or GTA and I would occasionally think like, "Ooooh nice bike... I wonder..." but I never do it because I know what would happen if I did (one of them is having it crush one of my legs, I'm aswesome in games with motorcycles but I have no REAL experience with them).

It's like some of the story in Metal Gear Solid 2. The idea of a giant walking machine to filter out internet data to "spur" the evolution of the human race. Why should information be filtered? I have a need to know an NO ONE should make it impossible for me to find out.

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (1)

LSD-25 (676562) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876857)

IF their have been over 24 murders that can be linked to rockstar why doesn't he name ONE?

He doesn't even include all of the suicide bombings in Israel. Those are all obviously inspired by Rockstar North's earlier game, Lemmings. ("Oh no!")

Re:Shades of the D&D AD&D witch hunt (1)

ThePilgrim (456341) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877767)

There have been milions of deaths caused by cars, why doesn't this monky of a lawer do somthing about that!

Everytime these stories come out... (1)

NaugaHunter (639364) | more than 10 years ago | (#9880839)

First it was science fiction.

Then it was comic books.

Followed by Dungeons and Dragons.

Next was heavy metal and rap.

Now it's video games.

And those are just the ones we care about as nerds/geeks. Don't forget mini-skirts, hula-hoops, the Twist, the Beatles, birth control...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's all about control and subservience; anything that might allow or encourage others to think for themselves is feared and belittled by the overly conservative & powerful.

Mod Down if you Must, But... (0)

Ieshan (409693) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875750)

Mod down if you must, but... they're right.

Rockstar looks awful. This game is awful. I couldn't stand it. You get points for murdering people in gruesome ways, with weapons like "the plastic bag", with which you strangle, snap necks, and break noses - all in a live-motion cutscene EVERY TIME you kill.

It's awful. I wouldn't recommend the game to anyone.

Not that this should prevent the publication of said speech, but it's still not anything Rockstar's going to look pretty over.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

gnovos (447128) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875891)

You get points for murdering people in gruesome ways, with weapons like "the plastic bag", with which you strangle, snap necks, and break noses - all in a live-motion cutscene EVERY TIME you kill.

Unlike, say, hollywood movies... how?

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

Goldfinger7400 (630228) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878846)

In even the most gory Hollywood movie, I doubt you'll find the star being a serial killer who's mission is to kill innocent people. That's what I think is most fucked up with Manhunt. GTA let you role-play a gangster, and though you have to whack some guys sometimes, it's not like you're playing a character who enjoys killing people just for the heck of it (anything along that lines is what YOU bring to the character.)

Yet more cry-baby bullshit (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879645)

One of the first things that you're told in the game is that the victims are "Scum, just like you." The people you murder are as equally blood thirsty as the character you play. Vicious gang members the lot of them.

Or perhaps you consider White Supremacists to be 'innocent', a thought which should untie the threads your liberal Michael Moore perspective until you realise what a complete fabrication your entire concept of morality is.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

mink (266117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881187)

Seems you didnt play the game in question, or pay any attention to the stuff outside of the act of killing.

Your character is a cold killer who was to be put to death. This character is grabbed while his execution is faked so a rich man can create snuf films using some gangs of criminals as killers for the prey he brings in.

There were virtually no innocent people involved (the reporter, your family, cant recall any others), even the cops you run into for the most part are on the masterminds payroll. All the "innocents" who get killed were killed at the hand of the gangs or the guy running the place, if you follow the events in the game.

The game via the Mastermind and plot forces you to kill ,and the only excessive thing I can think of that Rockstar might be guilty of is the more graphic your kills are the more you unlock of special stuff. Most areas are set so the next will not become accessable until you get rid of everyone in the current area.

I dont think it was the best game ever, it had it's moments, and frankly I enjoyed The Suffering much more for story.

As for your hollywood movie example go rent Natural Born Killers and get back to us about how hollywood wont make a movie like that.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

Goldfinger7400 (630228) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881380)

Okay, you caught me. I don't have a Playstation so I haven't tried the game. From what I saw of the game from Rockstar's publicity and from kids playing it in the stores, I looked pretty messed up though. Gratuitous violence in my opinion should be okay as long as it's strictly gratuitous, so that it's over the top enough that you don't get the impression that it's real.

Some might argue that itself to be the problem, but what do you think is worse, a society brought up to be able to tolerate comically excessive violence, or one that can watch and even play at realistic, brutal violence without batting an eye?

Realistic violence and suffering should, IMHO, exist in media to ward people away from doing awful things, like war and whatnot. It troubles me greatly to see kids laughing at how brutality a guy gets tortured or shot up, when the producers make it obvious how much it hurts. From what I read about Manhunt the producers took great lengths to make sure the guys you were strangling reacted just like real man would. I'm not opposed to videogame violence, people have a natural propensity to conflict, but I just don't want a generation of sadists growing up.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (2, Insightful)

toddhunter (659837) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875896)

They may look awful, but looking awful and being responsible are two completely different things.
You wouldn't recommend the game, thats fine. (Either would I, but only because it was so boring imo). But everyone should have the right to decide if they want to play it or not. Just the same as parents have the right to let their kids play the game or not.
If the parents in this case let their kids play the game, they are the ones responsible. (Assuming some link between violent games and real life violence can be established). Simple as that.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (3, Interesting)

ph4rmb0y (711836) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876068)

I am a parent of an 11 year old boy and a pair of young girls.

We have an XBOX, and have been playing PC games for years. Personally, I like violent games. My boy is not violent, nor have we had any problems with his Video game playing, so I don't mind if he plays games like halflife, Quake, Doom, etc.

I draw the line at games like Manhunt, GTA, Carmageddon, etc. I am simply exercising my right as a parent, similar to deciding what movies I want him watching.

The problem I have is that other parents don't do the same. These are decent parents of decent kids - but I think that they just don't realize what kind of games are out there (they are obviously not supervising their kids video game playing). My boy has played these games at friends houses.

Its very easy to blame the parents but the truth of the matter is that nowadays parents are very busy, both parents work in most families, and they don't realize that these types of games exist and that their kids are playing them.

Personally, I was quite surprised at manhunt. It is very violent, and doesn't seem to have much outside of that. Boring ..

I don't believe that banning violent video games is the answer (censorship is rarely the answer), however parents must be re-educated that the video games of today are very different from the ones that they remember.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (2)

Fredrik Leijon (609309) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876073)

And that is so different from say carmageddon who?

the problem isn't the games, the wast majority of us play them without any toubles, the problem is in the retared people that can't tell reality and fiction apart, banning videogames while allowing violent hollywood movied won't do any good.

Mod Parent Offtopic (2, Insightful)

MMaestro (585010) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876103)

It's awful. I wouldn't recommend the game to anyone

Well, whats your point? Yes I've played the game myself and yes I think the game is just plain awful, but that doesn't mean Rockstar should get sued because someone killed another person. Could you imagine the implications following after that? We'd have to sue car companies because someone drove their car while drunk. We'd have to sue steak knife companies because some kid ran around with it and stabbed his little brother. Etc etc.

If the game went around saying 'kill people, kill people, its all just a game' I could see why people would start pointing fingers at Rockstar, but when you consider the context "con gets pulled off deathrow without permission to play a game of cat and mouse" why not? When you think of it that way, you could say the main character is acting out in self-defense.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

phrasebook (740834) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877784)

You get points for murdering people in gruesome ways, with weapons like "the plastic bag", with which you strangle, snap necks, and break noses - all in a live-motion cutscene EVERY TIME you kill.

There's not really anything unique or new about that. It sounds like you just didn't like the presentation of the game, which is fair enough. It doesn't come across that well.

Personally the only thing I found disturbing about Manhunt was what a crap game it was!

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (2, Interesting)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878254)

no dont mod this down... your EXACTLY right....

I loved Mortal Kombat... it was bad, but it really was tame compaired to this game... the violence presented in it was like KillBill.... it had pretty blood, it was comical since i have yet to see someone rip a spine out with their bare hands...

Manhunt disturbs me like that Nicholas Cage movie with the snuff film disturbed me... yeah the storyline might say you have to kill or be killed... but its killing for killings sake. And instead of going Doom or even Wolfenstien, they make it EXTREAMLY realistic... like they studied how people die when these things are done to them....

I liked the old GTA (not thrilled with the newer ones) but this game was just sick... and worse its VERY easy for little kids to get their hands on it, even with the M rating. Do I think that Rockstar should be destroyed... no not really, thats stupid. Do I think this game was a VERY dumb move on their part... yeah.

What surprises me more is that this game has barely made the news while BMXXX was all over it.... its so stupid that the US STILL has problems with tits but cutting a guys throat is cool.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

Hwaguy (253509) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881396)

What surprises me more is that this game has barely made the news while BMXXX was all over it...


Hey man, I don't know where you are from, but here in America, it's ok to rip an enemy's spine out and strangle him with it: just so long as nobody is looking at titties.

Re:Mod Down if you Must, But... (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881633)

I know and its sad.... sometimes I wish this was Japan.... I would rather jerk off to girls in schoolgirl uniforms than rip out peoples spines....

Oh well

A new slogan (4, Funny)

BortQ (468164) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875782)

Guns don't kill people, videogames kill people.

Re:A new slogan (5, Funny)

Bwerf (106435) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876834)

Videogames don't make people violent, lag does.

Literally true in this case... (1)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878293)

> The game was present in the victim's home, not the
> killer's... This may present a problem for those
> looking to turn this case to their own ends.

Your slogan seems to be literally true in this case.

SKOOOORE! (4, Funny)

gnovos (447128) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875876)

Aw MAN he disses Rock Star HARD! I mean like, some guy who murders tens of thousands of people with nerve gas and, like tortured ethnic minorities for fun is, like, way less evil than those fucker trying to make a game. DUUUUuuudDDe!

We are going to destroy you make your time (3, Funny)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875974)

I'd like to make fun of this guy, really I would...but how? He already sounds like a stereotypical villain from an Ayn Rand novel.

In other news... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9875977)

FACT:
Slashdot a famous blog is being forceibly shut down by its parent company OSTG (formally OSDN). Herme's quotes "It was alot of fun, and we had a good run but frankly everyone who is not a troll complains about our editing proccess so, fuck'em". Slashdot has actually been in the proccess of shutting down for weeks. What was labeled as a "code update" was actually a killpoc script But since Mr Taco wrote the script in perl he could not get it to propigate across all servers. CmdrTaco quotes "Its the damn password protection, they are all based on the word CowboyNeal with each character shifted a different way on each server. But I can't find a way to quickly go through each iteration so i'm stuck doing it by hand" Little by little Slashdot is being eaten away as Taco discovers access to another cluster node a user is sent the goodbye letter titled "503". It has been along time but frankly I was getting smarter watching TV. The constant misspellings and duplications are found even more harmfull to brain development then geico commercials.

This is AC signing off. 503 good buddies.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9876253)

Okay, WTF people, /. is not a BLOG, I repeat, NOT A BLOG. Under no defintion I can find it would fit the catagory blog, so I wonder what kind of drugs you are using, but would you mind quitting them.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9879249)

OHHHH... thats right, its a news site. With journalists and reporters. Or maybe its an e-commerce site with goods or services produced. Or maybe its just a collection of quick blurbs and links to interesting places where people can post comments. Yea, that aint no blog, yes sirree.

With a lawyer like that... (3, Insightful)

Phleg (523632) | more than 10 years ago | (#9875989)

With that guy representing the other side, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Insinuating that Doug Lowenstein is even lower on the moral scale than Saddam Hussein is all but a dead giveaway that the man possesses no faculties for logic, reasoning, or intelligent discourse.

The lawyer made me do it! (1)

urbaer (778997) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876489)

After reading the article 50 times in one sitting I decided to take up arms against all video game developers and publishers. As Jack Thompson says: "We don't need luck. The vectors are locked in, these people are dead meat."

I remember I first saw Jack Thompson in Breaker Morant [imdb.com] ... although I can't remember if he won the case or not...

Why am I not surprised..... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9876013)

I look at it this way: Jack Thompson further proved himself to be an opportunistic scumbag. I'm surprised he didn't take the first flight to London as soon as he heard about it. But then again, we are talking about a total loon who would slit his mother's throat and/or sell his soul to the devil just to prove his asinine theories. Not to mention that he originated hearse-chasing(just like ambulance-chasing, except the destination's the funeral home) and he may be a necrophilliac. Let's analyze this scumbag, shall we?:

1) Thompson may be considered a racist since he helped lead censorship attacks against 2 Live Crew and Ice-T.

2) Thompson was ordered to take a psychological evaluation as part of a restraining order filed by Miami DJ Neil Rogers(IIRC, The Florida State Bar Association called Jack Thompson's sanity into question TWICE). In fact, Thompson can't even mention Rogers by name as part of that order, which came about when Thompson tried to have Rogers arrested over something he said on his radio show that Thompson didn't like.

3) Thompson has lost every case he started up involving the video game industry(the Paducah school shootings come to mind). When he tried to become Dustin Lynch's attorney last year(the case in Ohio where Thompson tried to blame(GTA3 for the murder), Lynch refused his services, so the judge banned him from being involved in the case, saying that Thompson had no right to defend a client that didn't even want him as his attorney; Lynch would later plead guilty anyway and in blood-stained letters sent to his victim's family members, he claimed he did it for "his own personal enjoyment" and that the game didn't make him do it. The prosecution even scoffed at Thompson's claims, saying that they had an open and shut case.

4) Thompson even enjoys calling HIMSELF a wacko(If you remember, he called himself "Wacky Jack" in a newspaper article about him joining the Haitians' lawsuit aginst Vice City).

Now about this particular case, Police officials don't even believe Thompson, the victim's parents or the British tabloid media. Officials have stated that robbery was the motive(The 17 year-old murderer killed the 14 year-old to rob him to pay off drug debts), and that the game was found in the VICTIM'S OWN BEDROOM!! Sounds to me like somebody has some explaining to do.

Jack Thompson has no credibility left, whether because of his own actions or because the federal courts continue to reject his claims. Yet the only reasons he's still around is 'cause of an apathetic news media(i.e. Anderson Cooper 360) and because he's an psychotic attention whore who's in need of mental help. And until a modern-day Edward R. Murrow questions the tactics of Thompson and his ilk, he'll continue this crap.

== BearDogg-X ==

Re:Why am I not surprised..... (1)

urbaer (778997) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876198)

See, I find this amusing:
Thompson: ... I warned them [Rockstar] almost two years ago that if they didn't do more to keep these games out of the hands of minors, then there would be a push to ban the games all together.
Followed by:
GD: Is there anyway to find out how Warren Leblanc acquired the game? Or is that not the point here?
Thompson: It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter how he got it? What if he nicked it from the high street (I mean someone who mugs to support a drug habit could do this).
Why is it that the more guilty you are, the more your lawyer(s) feels s/he has to make you a victim?

Re:Why am I not surprised..... (1)

homeobocks (744469) | more than 10 years ago | (#9882543)

On that same quote, how is it Rockstar's responsibility to ``do more to keep these games out of the hands of minors''? They just develop the games. The ESRB rates them. The stores sell them. Should Xerox be sued for people forging money?

Re:Why am I not surprised..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9877145)

You can lead a censorship attack against a black man without being a racist. It's the whites who go around crying "racism" at every excuse that worry me.

Re:Why am I not surprised..... (1)

MojoFraggle (733001) | more than 10 years ago | (#9884428)

I found this response great.. so much in fact that I e-mailed Mr. Thompson at his jackpeace@comcast.net account.

Found it on some website asking people to Join Jack in attacking the gaming industry.. anyways.. I sent your post in full to Mr. Thompson.. He actually responded..

His Response:

Jack Thompson <jackpeace@comcast.net> Wed, Aug 4, 2004 at 12:07PM
To: Mojo Fraggle <mojofraggle@gmail.com>

wow, do you have any neurons left since gaming? apparently not.

----

Funny stuff eh?

Manhunt? Pfeh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9876025)

I'm pretty sick of all the bullshit hype about Manhunt.

I've finished the game, and it's barely at the level of a good Peter Jackson movie. OK, the thought of some of the executions is horrifying, but the graphics in the game are pretty far from realistic. Certainly not bad enough to disturb anyone older than a small child.

Another good quote (5, Informative)

ScarletEmerald (717076) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876111)

And of course, another nice quote from the story [mcvuk.com] posted on Blues News [bluesnews.com] :

As for the link between Manhunt and the crime, the police are clear. Pooni said: "We haven't connected the game with the murder and we've already made that statement, but some sections of the media chose to ignore it...the motive was robbery."

I can't believe... (1)

Brakz0rz (773616) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876166)

..that he played Manhunt enough to become violently affected... it sucks.

Boring, repetitive and repetitive.

This from a guy that loved GTA3 and Vice City.

Re:I can't believe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9881426)

Please don't troll. Manhunt was an amazing game.

ah yes (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876370)

Well, I dont know about you guys, but I think its about time for video games to reach the high moral standards only lawyers have attained!

Re:ah yes (1)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879580)

Off topic:

Ferion: Like Master of Orion, only played against other people.

Did you notice MOO had a multiplayer option?

maybe he should get a rabies shot (1)

wyldeone (785673) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876459)

We are going to destroy Rockstar, you can count on that...

He sure seems rabid enough. Hopefully some judge will shut him up soon.

Rockstar (1)

black mariah (654971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876554)

If Rockstar has a ball in their pants they will be suing this motherfucker for libel before the week is out, and asking for his disbarrment as well. It is quite obvious he has a personal problem with them, and can not be trusted to act professionally. When you say shit like "We're going to destroy them" before there even IS a fucking WE, you have no claim whatsoever to being a lawyer. You do NOT say shit like that and expect to keep your job for long.

Weak logic on both sides of the fence. (1)

Thedalek (473015) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876563)

It seems people have a hard time coping with singular labels.

Gamers aren't violent. Gamers aren't pacifists either. Gamers are (drumroll) gamers. Anything more is a premature conclusion and a gross generalazation.

It is probably true that some people can be influenced to commit violent acts through exposure to violent media. It is also probably true that some people can be influenced to commit violent acts through exposure to calm, tranquil media, or through media deprivation. Even so, "influenced" does not denote a causal relationship.

I've said it before many times, and will probably continue to say it long after it's forgotten that I started the phrase: "Every disease has a patient." There are more than six billion people on this planet, and any concievable deviant act or lifestyle not only probably exists, but likely has a thriving community online.

Meanwhile, back on the topic, it should be noted that Jack Thompson, while still quite mad (in the stark raving sense, not in the angry sense), was previously calling for stricter controls on preventing games of this type from getting in the hands of minors, which wasn't all that unreasonable a request. Calling for "destroying Rockstar," however, is.

Re:Weak logic on both sides of the fence. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9877153)

Weak logic when you sit on the fence too.

It is probably true that some people can be influenced to commit violent acts through exposure to violent media. It is also probably true that some people can be influenced to commit violent acts through exposure to calm, tranquil media, or through media deprivation.

Yes, but you disingenuously hide the difference between these two "probably"s.

The first "probably" has some experimental evidence for and against. The second "probably" came off the top of your fat head.

This is your attempt to sure up the weak logic of others, is it?

Boredom leads to anger, anger leads to hate... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9877306)

or through media deprivation

You haven't seen "Big Brother (tm)" have you ?

Boredom leads to anger... anger leads to hate... hate leads to the dark side.
KILL, KILL, KILL!!!!!!!!

Re:Weak logic on both sides of the fence. (2, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877427)

I got some impenetrable logic for the 'the game is not to blame' side of the fence.

the killer was a drug addict and doesn't seem to have ever even touched the game, which was found at the *victims* home.

18 certificate - where are the parents? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9876670)

The game has an 18 certificate... the kids weren't 18.. And the parents don't want to accept any small portion of responsibility? WTF?

"Oh, he's in his room on his computer" .... once again, the computer is seen as a modern replacement for proper parenting...

dear lawyer... (2, Funny)

Prowl (554277) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876739)

if you do destroy rockstar, please do it *after* the release of GTA: San Andreas, and preferably GTA 4 if there is one.

thank you

Rockstar (2, Interesting)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876744)

I do have a good bit of sympathy with the main point of the gamesindustry.biz article. I don't believe in outright censorship or banning of games (although I don't object to an age-based classification system), but I do recognise that there is an argument over this which needs to be won and that games like Manhunt really aren't helping the case.

The Grand Theft Auto games were at least innovative in terms of gameplay (or at least, GTA3 was... Vice City perhaps less so). With Manhunt, by all account, the only selling point are the buckets of gore and the explicitely sadistic objectives. I saw a news article the other day saying that American Magee was intending to make "the most violent game ever"... but why? If you look at the world of movies, you'll find plenty of violence. However, the movies at the Manhunt end of the spectrum tend to be relegated to the straight-to-video category of "video nasties" and you don't normally get well known directors setting out to make "the most violent movie ever" (well... maybe Quentin Tarantino does, but at least his movies have other qualities, a la GTA3).

Ultimately, the great "videogames are evil" argument still has a couple of years to run. These arguments are inevitably won from the middle-ground. While I would support the right of developers to make whatever games they want, it would be nice if they had the common sense to keep things a little more low key for the time being. Right now, the only good news is that the anti-video-games crowd haven't done a good job of grabbing the middle-ground either.

Re:Rockstar (1)

AlexMax2742 (602517) | more than 10 years ago | (#9880155)

The Grand Theft Auto games were at least innovative in terms of gameplay (or at least, GTA3 was... Vice City perhaps less so). With Manhunt, by all account, the only selling point are the buckets of gore and the explicitely sadistic objectives.

Manhunt, in my opinion, was a great open ended stealth action game. Very tense and nerve wrecking. I almost didn't care about the gore (though I was grossed out by some of the higher level execution, some of them were just plain sick). You're right, it wasn't revolutionary, but it was still pretty fun for other reasons other than OMG EXCESSIVE GORE.

Will find this nonsense harder before UK court (4, Interesting)

prentiz (565940) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876799)

Not to flame the US judicial system, but thank god Jack Thompson will find it a lot harder to peddle his nonsense in this country! Firstly British law does not allow a lawyer to take a share of damages recieved, which removes the profit motivation for this sort of ambulance chasing.

Secondly our judges are appointed, not elected, which reduces the chance that a judge will play this for the crowd, and support this boneheaded action to garner favour with the tabloid press.

What it does show is how poor the lobbying strength is of the videogames industry in the UK. Given that videogames make more money in this country than the music industry and the film industry times 2, Members of Parliament are still prepared to take cheap shots at it because this hasn't been made clear to them. If videogames don't put more money into schmoozing our policymakers they will continue to be seen as an unimportant minority interest, vulnerable to the vaguries of the tabloid press.

real or not real, that is the question. (1)

Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | more than 10 years ago | (#9876888)

What annoys me is that these anti-violent-game lobbyists want everyone to understand that violence in games is not real. Yet at the same time they belive that playing them creates real world effects. So which is it?

Anyway, I liked "Postal 2" because of the moral ambiguity of that game. The fact remains.... you can actually win that game by not having to kill anyone.(stealing and doing drugs to avoid death from the game's assailants is a different matter though)

Re:real or not real, that is the question. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9877172)

It's the latter. You won't find any of these anti-games lobbyists talking about how the violence in these games is not real, because they clearly think it is real.

"Destroy Rockstar" (1)

thegodling (700061) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877257)

Hopefully there arent' any Haitians working for Rockstar, Jack Thompson might have to sue himself.

stats.. (2, Interesting)

joper90 (669321) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877326)

Now i read somewhere the other day that the average number of children killed every year in the uk is about 7 (even though people polled thought it was anywhere from 5 to 400) and this has been stable since the 50's. So what does that tell us? Soz for no link.. will have a look.

Parents Opinoun? (1)

Devalia (581422) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877695)

As i understand it the victims parent blamed the game - not exactly a qualified opinoun especially when you consider the fact that they were aware they played the game together - its an "18" game, any parent letting two 13year olds play such a game, especially if they take the time to look at it themselves are, in my eyes, negligent. All i can see here is media hype as a result of a parent trying to blame someone other than herself. I cant see how the two kids could be quite "right" either..

Re:Parents Opinoun? (1)

Ayaress (662020) | more than 10 years ago | (#9882444)

Beyond negligence. This isn't like your kid doing drugs when you're not around to suprvise. This is like buying drugs for your kid because the dealers won't sell to them.

The most important point... (2, Informative)

paulcammish (542971) | more than 10 years ago | (#9877747)

(Id already moderated here, but it looks like nobody has pointed this out, so ill post and burn the mod points - sorry modded people)

What seems to have been overlooked here, and something far more important than the game itself, is the BBFC Clasification of the game in question.

Over here in the UK, its Illegal (and pinishable by a big fine at least) to sell a BBFC rathed game to someone under the rated age. In this case, the game has an '18' certificate, which meants it is illegal to sell it to anyone under the age of 18 - something with retailers are typically very careful about.

Its the same system as used by the video/dvd retail industry, and not a requirement for games. if i remember correctly, only games which contain live action footage (which Manhunt does not) must be rated, but titles can be submitted for classification, which is something Rockstar do with all their titles.

The GTAs are 18 certificate, as is Manhunt, and if I recall correctly, MGS2 has a 15 certificate, while Eyetoy and Singstar have U (universal) and PG (Parental Guidance) certificates.

What is comes down to, is if the game DID have anything to do with the murder, then what were under-age children doing with a game that they cant buy, which is clearly labelled for adults?

In fact, to make matters worse, I remember hearing a quote somewhere that the favourite movie of the kid who comitted the murder is Scarface - something else that is 18 rated.

Its not like the rating system is new (its been in place for the last 20 years or so), or can be missed (distinctive red circle, which you see all over) - this is simply the case of the parents not paying attention at all.

Someone over 18 must have purchased the game, and someone was letting them play it, even though one of the first screens you see is a warning that it contains scenes of violence, and should not be viewed by minors!

This is fairly irrelevent now, but wither way, theres no excuse at all for it to be the game alone that is the cause here - its clearly lack of parenting.

Re:The most important point... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9881209)

You could have logged out and post anonymous to not lose the points.

Settle down there, killer (1)

illuminatedwax (537131) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878053)

"We are going to destroy Rockstar, you can count on that..."

Sounds like he's been playing a little too much Manhunt.

--Stephen

maybe he got reaaally frustrated at their game?

Ban Ideas (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878213)

So let me get this straight. The argument is that the game gives the killers ideas on how to murder their victems and should be banned. Otherwise, they would have killed the victem in a more traditional way?

Why don't we ban the news, everyday I turn it on and I see how someone kidnapped some 16 year old and raped and killed her, or how some people left their kid in a dumpster, or how some woman drove all her kids off a bridge in the family car. I never thought of that, I can mass kill my family by telling them we are taking a rode trip, then pushing them off a bridge! I can get rid of my kid by leaving him in the trash rather then facing embarassment at an abortion clinic!

Get this slashdoters, YOU CAN HAVE SEX WITH A HOT 16 year old! All you have to do is kidnap and have your way with her, THEN THROW HER IN THE WOODS WHEN YOU ARE DONE!!! AMAZING!

To think, I would have never come up with any of these things if I hadn't watched the news. They gave me all these great ideas for crimes. THANK YOU NEWS 11!

So very typical (1)

Llevar (788850) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878225)

Parents who can't take the time out of their very important and busy schedule to find out what it is that their own kids are doing. Hey, let the TV and the PC be mom and dad, meanwhile we can have a life. And when they don't know real life from a video game, because they have had images of goatse implanted in their brains from the age of 5 and because every time you die you hit Continue, we'll go and blame someone else because we fucked up in bringing our kids up to be decent people. Of course those kids went guns a-blazin' into their school because they played Doom, why else? And now this guy too, the statements these parents make are pathetic - "Our 17-year-old son seemed to be obsessed with ritualistic killings, there was nothing, nothing we could do!".

Aiming at the wrong people (1)

(trb001) (224998) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878635)

Thompson: Right. The Daily Mail explains that even with this story on the front page of the newspapers in the U.K., they took a kid and were able to walk into retail outlets and buy the game. So everybody knows that the restrictions are a joke.

Okay, right there, you've named the appropriate target for any and all lawsuits. Video games, just because they USED to be aimed at children, aren't necessariliy in the domain of the 12 and under group. It's like periodicals, nobody is going to say (anymore!) that Playboy, Penthouse or Hustler shouldn't be sold at stores. The stores are supposed to be responsible for making sure that nobody unde 18 gets their hands on them. How are MA17 games different?

--trb

Re:Aiming at the wrong people (1)

Llevar (788850) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879611)

The rating system is voluntary not enforced!

Remember we are dealing with grieving parents (1)

AngryScot (795131) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878869)

I for one belive that it is acceptable to blame the games industry for the death of their son while they grieve. But as happens everytime, it will blow over and sales of manhunt will continue. What I do not belive is acceptable is a report in yestardays Metro [metro.co.uk] . Their article says that the parents are going to sue rockstart games as well as sony.

Can't find the quote... (1)

Scorchio (177053) | more than 10 years ago | (#9878961)

"The game was present in the victim's home, not the killer's... This may present a problem for those looking to turn this case to their own ends."

I've trawled through most of the links but I can't find where this quote was taken from. I've seen contradicting quotes stating that a copy of the game was removed from the killer's home by police. So which is it? Have I just gone blind?

Gameplay rather than gore? (1)

AzraelKans (697974) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879138)

I think rockstar has added a lot of creativity to all their games including manhunt, theres a ton of games about stealth but manhunt (and mgs) allows you to attract your pursuers by using "sound" (not a stupid sound system in which you lose if you are too loud!) you can even use your mic if you have one. GTA was a complete revolution in gameplay and they are extending it in every volume, they invented "free roaming" for crying out loud they deserve awards not lawsuits! Society is completely hipocrite in this terms, if people want so much nonviolent games how come they sell so bad? try to pull any game without a known license that doesnt use any violence and or gore and you get an instant flop in the shelves if any publisher grabs it. Has anyone considered game developers do this because thats what gamers want? a lot of people complaint about GTA:SA has any gamer complaint with them to tone down the violence?

Always someone else's fault (1)

toolshed7 (756496) | more than 10 years ago | (#9879813)

A game, movie, or whatever does not make someone violent. I have played games like this for years, and watched the most violent movies. I mean take account for your actions, but lawyers have to eat to. Remember we have freewill, if anything or anyone is to blame it is probably the parents. Living in a blame first society well, it is not my fault. But not to name names..more like SCO i guess.

Jackass Thompson (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 10 years ago | (#9880427)

Doug Lowenstein makes Saddam Hussein look like a post-reformed Pinocchio.

That's almost as ridiculous as when that NYT writer said that GTA3 was worse than child molestation. Here's hoping that this guy gets disbarred.

Rob

Nothing new in this game (1)

FuzzyDustBall (751425) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881340)

If your going to ban violent video games you better ban those peskey books.... Lets see Running Man comes to mind as the same theme as the game. I think books are actualy worse for you because you have to visualize the violence yourself! Books are even unrated any kid can go and pickup a book about violence and sex, oh wait they are made to read those books by school. Anyway everyone thinks its dumb to ban books its also dumb to ban video games.... if you cant tell reality from fantasy youll be dropping anvils on your friends heads after watching the Road Runner! Im rambling but this whole subject pisses me off because it is just a repeat of past events Books, Rock and Roll, Pen And Paper roll playing games.. All these things have been blamed on kids killing each other. When one becomes more exceptable or a better target comes out stupid people jump all over it I mean who today thinks that areosmith is the Devil?

No time to read all the posts, but .. (1)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 10 years ago | (#9881904)

this is hilarious :
"Rockstar do not emerge from this affair smelling of roses... game makers could help the case a lot by trying to push the boundaries in terms of gameplay, rather than gore."

As we all know that GTA3 wasn't revolutionary at all, and didn't break -any- boundaries in terms of gameplay.[/sarcasm]

Mod me redundant if the obvious has been said allready ;)

Btw, Manhunt sucked donkeypooh.

Stupidest. Thing. Ever. (1)

MyDixieWrecked (548719) | more than 10 years ago | (#9882195)

This lawyer cat (and any bastard who blames video games, movies, books, tv, or any other media for problems with youth and other people) is a complete idiot.

Similar to the assholes that think that just because these rave kids dress in colourful outfits, wear candy bracelets and suck on pacifiers, they are doing so to attract children to the Ketamine and Ecstacy laden nights of drugged out psycodelic dance parties. completely not true. It's part of the spirit of the event. Depictions of donald duck, pokemon, and cell phone brands on the pills? It's for the fun of it.

The same goes for video games. Anyone can get obsessed over any thought. Some people get obsessed with washing their hands until they bleed. Some people have disorders where they scream all night, or try to remove imaginary insects from their body with razor blades (GET THEM OFF MEEEEEE!). Does that mean we should ban soap? Should we ban sharp things? Should we live in a world without entertainment?

What's good to one person can be a complete detriment to another. Look at firefighters. Some people are completely phobic of fire, others don't mind it. Most people lie somewhere in between.

No one's going to little Johnny's kindergarten class with posters of GTA or Manhunt or Doom3 and saying "tell your parents you want this!" Hell, I don't think video games are marketed ENOUGH. They're still pretty underground, it seems.... for the most part...

You know something... I think I'm gonna start obsessing over Darwin's theory of natural selection. Maybe I should go around putting bullets in the heads of every stupid person who blames media for problems in the world. I should go on a killing spree and take out every person who is horrified by my actions. You know, that's what I'll do....

My defense... well, that's easy. Jack Thompson inspired me. I'm doing it for him. He's my idol. My god. He'll get me off. He tells me what to do in my dreams...

That's the ticket.

Argh! Jack Thompson annoys me! (1)

homeobocks (744469) | more than 10 years ago | (#9882602)

He better hope that I don't roll a 14 after entering the plains of Azkar: a +1 Gelatonous Cube!

Oh my god! I've become one of them!
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