Technology Review Profiles Miguel de Icaza 231
prostoalex writes "Technology Review has a feature story on Miguel de Icaza, currently Novell VP of Product Technology, but more known as the leader of Gnome and Mono projects. Miguel is the man Don Box would like to see joining Microsoft for his "amazing amount of raw energy". If you read through the Technology review article, you will see that de Icaza was actually turned down by Microsoft at some point."
de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever met (Score:5, Interesting)
We chatted and I quickly found he was more than just a Rob Malda or Rusty Foster, guys who talk the talk and get all the fame but can't back it up when it comes to lines of code per hour counts.
Miguel simply AMAZED me with his knowledge and skill. He ever opened up a digital projector and messed with the PROM or jumpers or something and fixed it within 20 minutes, just in time for his talk.
de Icaza is nothing short of amazing. I DO however question his judgement to kind of jump into the MS camp with MONO/.NET emulation, but I know that since he's smarter than me he must be doing the right thing.
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:5, Insightful)
i'm picking on you because you exemplify superbly what's true of most of this thread, and half the posts on this story: intense fanboyism. you deduced that he was a great coder from a short conversation? what'd he do, spend the whole time reciting the Mono headers? great coder, lousy conversationalist. you can't figure out how good a coder someone is without looking at their code ! and we'll ignore for the moment this flatly stupid idea that LoC/hr is some measure of a coder's skill. all the "he's nothing short of amazing" stuff just doesn't "take" without some rationale behind it, all of which is totally missing from most of the fanboy posts. "he's smarter than me, he must know what he's doing" is triangulated somewhere between funny, stupid, and dangerous. reserve judgment for people with a proven track record, but even Ken and Dennis make mistakes.
and, speaking of track records, anyone know what the current score is for people or organizations that try to "play nice" with our "friends" in Redmond? (hint: it ain't pretty)
i'm amazed by both the number of "he's the only one that gets it" (c'mon, the only one? there's an awful lot of bright people out there) and "he just doesn't get it" posts. people on both sides seem really animated. i've never met the guy, but most people i know who have ended up kinda violently opposed to him. what is it about the guy that inspires such strong emotion? is it just the fact that he's working on topics that touch on sensitive areas for many FS/OS folks (MS, and playing nice with them)? or is de Icaza the new RMS (people seem to have mostly mellowed about him)?
i've got mod points, and i was gonna try to even this thread out some, but i couldn't figure out where the -1 Fanboy rating was.
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the single most retarded things I've ever heard.
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:3, Funny)
This coming from a guy who's Name is Adolph Hitler (713286) [slashdot.org].
Re:Godwin's Law (Score:2, Insightful)
Ian
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you are actually someone hired by Microsoft to spread FUD on slashdot!
Miguel's a leader of the community who deserves our respect. I think it's become clear over the years he could have made as much money as he wanted but chose to do what he felt was right.
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:3, Interesting)
de Icaza might have good intentions (Score:2)
MS are defining all the data formats. If one of them is wrapped in encryption, it will be a DMCA violation for us to write software to read that data format.
Mono may be useful - if MS.Net dominates the world, Mono may make it easier for people to migrate to free software, but MS are going to make that as hard, and as illegal, as possible.
I think I'm glad it exists, but I hope we never need Mono.
Re:de Icaza is one of THE best coders I've ever me (Score:2)
I wasn't pissed at your first post, nor am I pissed now.
I find it amusing that Microsoft users/supporters troll Linux threads in some vain attempt to make points with their other MS users/supporters.
Complete waste of time, from my perspective. But it is your time to waste, so by all means, waste away.
hrm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Many a
Clippy might have sucked and annoyed many of you, but think about those moments when grammy was looking about for a movie of the grandkids.
i know, i know...stretch, strech, but ponder for me your grand parents for a sec: what do they read/write/view email with? Yeah, l33tz as you may be, gramps needs some some help from time to time: Gnome does that. Period.
Gripe and bitch on the 'spatial this' and 'spatial that'
Save the zealotous mass, either is good, but Clippy has helped many a folk get "email"...your ub3r ass needs to realize these are not the folks that care for or about your sendmail/qmail/rfc gripes....they want the pics of the little grandkids.
Rip on Miguel as you like, but recall, this is a man that wants the linux desktop to prosper, regardless of what fanboy, ub3r wannabies latch on.
Let the quote go....listen to the spirit...you do want me to listen to the open source spirit don't you?
Re:hrm... (Score:5, Interesting)
RMS was both at the start of his career - and, interestingly, he started fading out when he seemed to have lost the pragmatism (GNU/Linux, Hurd, etc.). Hopefully Miguel will avoid making a similar mistake.
To me, at least, it seems like he's got the world's best job: get paid to produce Free software. Not a bad gig.
-Erwos
Re:You can't be both. (Score:2)
Miguel was Gnome until recently. (Score:3, Insightful)
The man is founder of Gnome and his claim to fame was dissing KDE for not having the right ideals. Now its time to diss Miguel for doing something which is even more threatening than using the QT license.
Re:You can't be both. (Score:2)
That is your conjecture, and it's not at all supported by the article. The article talks about how Miguel lectured Microsoft about FOSS at his interview. If Miguel was working at Microsoft, it would seem to me that he'd only be doing it because he could write Free software.
-Erwos
Re:You can't be both. (Score:4, Informative)
The blurb here makes it sound like he was begging on his knees for them to take him on. Not quite what the article describes. He's not the least "confused on what side he's on".
Re:hrm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Rip on Miguel as you like, but recall, this is a man that wants the linux desktop to prosper, regardless of what fanboy, ub3r wannabies latch on.
I have no desire to rip on Miguel; however, I think Miguel may have underestimated Microsoft.
My opinion is that .NET is a trojan horse: The "best" and "most up-to-date" implementation will always be on Windows, which will give Microsoft a great deal of marketing strength, even if Mono can run a large number of .NET applications (which seems a long ways off: Windows.Forms isn't "standardized" by ECMA, and it's very Windows-centric. Mono needs Windows.Forms in order to run GUI-based .NET applications).
And if the Linux/Mono combo ever becomes a serious threat, Microsoft can just beat Mono into submission with a fist full of patents.
Even though Java is proprietary, Sun has bent over backwards for years to get the community involved and keep the community involved. The ubiquity, robustness, and maturity of the Java Virtual Machine makes Java ready right now for what Mono may be ready for some day.
Don't be paranoid, but at the same time, don't dismiss Microsoft's pattern of abusive behavior over the years. Before you commit to Mono, think through all the alternatives first, and be sure you're not opening the city gates for a trojan horse.
Re:hrm... (Score:4, Insightful)
I always wonder what's going on with Microsoft and Mono. I don't think it's any secret that Miguel is pretty enamoured by MS. Microsoft has said some pretty nice things about him too. I know MS seems to be changing a little bit to not be quite the evil empire it was, or at least that's the perception their trying so hard to make, but.... You've seen the movies where one of the cool kids asks some homely, nerdy girl to the prom, only to find out it was some big joke at the end. If I was Miguel, I wouldn't spend too much on a dress.
Re:hrm... (Score:5, Funny)
Words of wisdom for very nearly everyone named Miguel.
Re:hrm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
I wonder if things like this happen in real life.. it seems to me that "cool" people stick with cool people and "nerdy" people stick with nerdy people... I even went to a Math and Science high school and it was like that so I'd imagine that it's even worse in a regular school...
Going back on topic.... uh... anyone that like clippy should be shot. Or be employed by M$. I don't really like Miguel myself, so I
Hold on thar, city boy! (Score:2)
I think Miguel may have underestimated Microsoft.
That would be MIS-underestimated.
Re:hrm... (Score:2, Informative)
Yes. But face it:
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
And people are also using Windows, eating McDonald's hamburgers, and driving Fords. That doesn't mean that I have to as well.
There is a need for Mono, simply because there will always be stupid ass PHBs who believe the Microsoft promises. But we don't have to drink the Microsoft Kool-Aid.
Re:hrm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Good. Because noone said you did, either.
Sheesh.
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
The opensource community hasn't the resources to put out a dev enviroment nor langugae like C#/VS.NET (I'm sure 1,000+ people at MS are full time on it).
Quite frankly the opensource community hasn't came up with anything as quick and as newbie-friendly as Visual Basic. It needs dev enviroments like this to thrive - look at PHP and mySQL. It now has the domanince over the small to medi
Re:hrm... (Score:5, Informative)
http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/tmp/two-stac
One is the Microsoft compatible one.
The other one is where we are pouring our energies:
An ECMA core with the following on top:
There are quite a few of other open source stacks
for the ECMA CLI today that range from research
to practically useful.
Miguel.
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Two stacks means two platforms.
As many people warned you at the outset of the Mono development, chasing Dotnet compatibility would be hard. But then if you didn't chase it, giving up at only 90% API coverage for example, the missing 10% would be enough to prevent the vast bulk of Dotnet applications from working on Mono.
So we've ended up with exactly the scenario predicted by some of us three years ago with Mono unable to deliver on its key differentiator.
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
The future of the desktop programming and programming in general is in managed code and in frameworks / readily available stacks.
Before Mono, Linux did not have open-source stack to develop managed code. Productivity of someone armed with C# will be loads better than one with C.
To me, that is where the value of Mono is. Compatability with MS
Thank you Miguel and Mono team. I hope Novell wil
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Re:hrm... (Score:5, Informative)
(I should update that graph with the latest version
where we point that out).
Windows.Forms will be available in a few months.
Re:hrm... (Score:4, Interesting)
I am a total vendorlockin-phobe, I do "small-time" webapplications - and people come to me with their
I really shudder at the mere thought of
As long as MONO is still infant (or is it adolescent by now ?)
There is a lot of speculations around about whether MONO is playing a realistic game. Will M$ just strangle MONO if you get too close etc... and I have very little knowledge to help me judge on that.
Is there any where I can read the MONO viewpoint on this issue. I would love to see a FAQ type document addressing these concerns.
For instance: I know not enough to understand the implications of the ECMA thingie, but I can't help thinking that Javascript has an ECMA spec (ECMA script I believe) and that MS does not adhere to it fully.
Does the MONO community believe that MS will stick to the
So in short:
Did the MONO community consider 'worst-case-MS-behaviour' and the following worst-case-scenarios ? And if you did, is there some where I can read about that ?
Re:hrm... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well consider it this way. If Microsoft decides to break
Re:hrm... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Of course. Just as it is with C, C++ or even PHP.
One sure thing is that the existence of Mono does not add to vendor lock in. No matter what differences there are between the MS and Mono implementations the fact that Mono exists means there is less lock in than if there were only one vendor in the first place.
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Well, there are no guaruntees. It will presumably only "guaruntee" it to the extent that developers care. Novell is probably as good an example as any, a "best case" if you will. They are clearly indicating their intention to capitalise on .Net related technologies in a platform agnostic way. Other developers may at least have a reasonable migration path to Mono if they need/want it even if it isn't a drop in replacement
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
You could do the exact same thing in Linux by writing a bunch of libraries that will only work on Linux syst
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Either way, Microsoft adding a language feature is no worse than Open Source languages creating forks, each with their own language extensions that are mutually incompatible...
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
If your fork became very popular, yes it would matter because the effect would be the same: there would be two (or more) forks of the same program that are both regularly used and incompatible with one another on some level. You don't have to be a monopoly to accomplish that.
Microsoft and backwards compatibility (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Microsoft and backwards compatibility (Score:2)
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
In the end, it comes down to trust. If you have bought in to the whole
Re:hrm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Given the sheer size of the API, the breadth of its features and the fact that nearly all "real" .NET apps I've seen P/Invoke and use handles heavily, I think that's a severe over-estimate. I'd think it was more realistic to say we'd have a "good enough to run complex apps" with a bit of hacking in a few years.
Dropping Wine wasn't a smart idea either IMHO, the most common kind of .NET app on Windows is not likely to be a pure .NET app but rather an extended version of code that already exists. Certainly, native code will be reused. So I don't think there's any way to make a useful duplicate of the Microsoft stack without Windows emulation being involved at some point.
Novell. Energy. (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft are certainly a competitor but the open source community will only be doing itself a disservice if fear of what Microsoft might do is an overriding principle. If you want to avoid treading on Microsofts toes you may as well just give up now.
If they want to control something they should be made to fight for it.
For me it is difficult to put my finger on exactly what has hampered Java's uptake in the general open source community. Java certainly has an open source community (as is evident from Apache projects etc) but it seems almost completely disconnected from the general open source community.
In part it must come down to Sun. It seems insane to me that sheer force of enthusiasm seems to striding towards making Mono an attractive and viable platform for GNOME/GTK development while years of Sun involvement in that project has done no such thing for Java. Quite a lot of posts say "Why not Java?" as an alternative for GNOME. I wonder the same thing, there just doesn't seem to be any energy for it. It's ludicrous to think that some sort of epiphany is going to suddenly divert Miguel or Novells energy towards Java. That energy will have to come from somewhere else. Simply standing there and saying "Look, Java!" isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
Re:Novell. Energy. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's unlikely to be only one reason. These issues are big, complex with many aspects, and every developer that has made a choice in this field probably have their own unique blend of reasons.
For me, it has come down to a few things, but these hase tended to change as well.
I started playing with Java looong ago, like 1995ish, and actually wrote a small app as part of a summer job (which didn't really go anywhere). It was pretty horrible at the time. A big problem was that we were doing client-side apps, with an UI, and with Java and its UI libs, our then modern machines ended up with the performance of a CBM64, but with far uglier user interface. I still have dreams about that experience after a night with too much beer and rich food.
Today, the performance is better. Using Swing (is it? I mix them up), it tends to look better as well. But: any UI is still uncoupled from the rest of my desktop. I have my nice AA fonts everywhere - except in a Java app, which uses its own font settings and no AA. Controls, cutting and pasting and so on also reinforces that the app is just a free-floating guest on my machine and is not integrated one bit. Also, the runtime takes a _lot_ of resources - on disk and in memory. There sould be no need for that, really - all other VM:s I have (mono, perl, python) seem far less resource hungry.
Oh, and the install is also "too good" for my machine, and plonks down itself in its own private directory, not deigning to play nice with the rest of the machine. If all my other apps can have common resources in
OK, this sounds like a litany. It's not that bad, but you wanted to know why people aren't enamoured with Java the way they seem to become about mono, and this is my personal (partial) answer. In short, I write a GTK# app in mono, and it feels like a natural part of my desktop. I write it in Java, and it feels like an intruder.
Re:Novell. Energy. (Score:2, Interesting)
You should maybe look into IBM's SWT. I'm using Azureus [sourceforge.net], a Java bittorrent client using this toolkit, and it integrates fairly well with my Gnome desktop. It even puts an applet in the notification area.
The flagship SWT app is of course the Eclipse IDE.
I also hear Java 1.4.2 includes a GTK look & feel for Swing. Hopefully the Jedit texteditor I use for coding will be updated to support this.
Re:Novell. Energy. (Score:2)
You may also want to check out the java-gnome bindings which let you address GTK/GNOME libs right from your Java code.
Re:Novell. Energy. (Score:2)
As an Open Source Java developer (<shameless-plug>The jSyncManager [jsyncmanager.org]</shameless-plug>), I'll tell you what the problem is: it's that end users don't like to run Java applications.
Here is my take on why this i
Driving users to windows, where the tools are best (Score:4, Insightful)
Development tools are one of microsoft stronger suits. Its going to be hard to get development tools that good for linux, so in the end more users will end up developing on windows.
I looked at mono for development, and ended up at java/eclipse. Eclipse is one of the most impresive open source projects since apache. I wish sun was more open and every linux distro would come with java preinstalled.
You can't win with either java or mono(c#).. Maybe its time ffor python/perl/php/ruby.....
Re:Driving users to windows, where the tools are b (Score:2)
Well, with IronPython [ironpython.com] mono is Python. Alternatively, you can always use Jython [jython.org] and have Python being Java. The real benefit here is this: There's no need for constant updates to the pyGTK and pyGNOME libraries every time GTK of GNOME changes if you're using IronPython, because IronPython automatically gets the latest GTK# stack through mono - your bindings are always automatically up to date.
Of course, you can alw
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Microsoft is such a thieving monopoly, they wouldn't even cough up an extra p.
Damn you Bill Gates!
Re:hrm... (Score:2)
Miguel's great, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Miguel's great, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
In my strictly personal opinion, Miguel fell in love with the .Net framework - almost literally. It's never a good thing when a programmer falls in love with a tool: he'll try to make everything work with that tool, even if it's not the right one, or if there already is an implementation based on something else. You know, the hammer/nail thing...
Not that choice is bad: I do prefer two or more similar implementations of an idea, in order to chose for the best one.
Re:Miguel's great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, it's not like FOSS programmers just allot time to whatever the masses care about. They program to scratch their itches - and Java is obviously not Miguel's itch.
Don't view Mono as time taken away from kaffe/gcj/Parrot, because chances are, the time put into Mono wouldn't have gone into any of those.
-Erwos
Re:Miguel's great, but... (Score:2)
Here's [google.com] why [ximian.com].
"I do not like Parrot" [ximian.com] (second paragraph after OSCON subtitle)
-Miguel
Whats better about Java? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do so many people around here seem to think that Java is more free than .Net? This is far from true.
Java is just as patent-encumbered [sun.com] as .Net is. Hell, Sun sued *Microsoft* over some Java patents shortly ago. Who is to say they wouldn't do the same to gcj if it served their interests?
In fact, it is argueable that it is moreso since a single, commercial body controls it (Sub) whereas with .Net at least you have a standards body (ECMA) who has ratified the spec, which means that an independant implementation of the spec API (Mono) is less likely to have problems than an independant implimentation of the Java API.
The reality is that everyone is against .Net soley because it is made by MS. Yay for groupthink!.
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:3, Insightful)
This academic argument gets trotted out over and over again, and its just as unconvincing every time.
Back here in the real world, where MS holds sway, the way things go is that if you write your code to run on an MS platform, then every single time someone runs it, MS's cash register gives out a big KA-CHIIING !!!!
But if you write it to run on Java, then that does not have to happen. It may do, but
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:5, Insightful)
Java is just as patent-encumbered as .Net is. Hell, Sun sued *Microsoft* over some Java patents shortly ago. Who is to say they wouldn't do the same to gcj if it served their interests?
You have a nice bundle of assumptions there, but when picked apart, they don't hold.
Just an addendum...
For my part, I do Java when I have to, and Perl the rest of the time. (C for interfacing with DBs, modifying code, whatever.) Perl's absolutely the best kept secret of development. I have Perl running in a couple top-100 sites. and many more instances elsewhere. Ask Amazon (I mention them because I've never done any work for them, and they use Perl -- HTML::Mason, actually). Desktop Perl is getting traction, too, lately... I built a Windows installer for a Perl desktop app the other day that, so far, the client is thrilled with. I expect this to be cheap growth for my company. So, from my perspective, please - keep writing PHP and VB. Please make my consulting gigs that much easier to land! The gaggles of people who hate Perl are my company's best competitve advantage.
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:4, Insightful)
The difference is that Sun has generally played nice with others, wheras this is a rarity with Microsoft, who have a history of stabbing its own partners in the back when it suits them to do so.
Sun isn't in a monopoly position. Sun is practially forced to play nice with Java, because if it doesn't then Java developers will simply go elsewhere (don't forget, Sun has licensed their code and specifications to a number of other companies).
Microsoft, on the other hand, does have a monopoly on the underlying operating system that .NET is targeted towards, and they can (and in the past routinely have) played bait-and-switch by changing APIs mid-game just to prevent compatible versions from other companies (think Windows 3.1 errors when run on DR-DOS, constantly changing Win32s only to break Win32s applications from running on OS/2, and Microsoft's contract violations in modifying their Java implementation to prevent Java apps written on Windows from running correctly (or at all) on other platforms). They can afford to play "screw the developer", because they know most applications developers are trying to target Windows. Do it the Microsoft way, or get locked outt of the vast majority of systems.
And don't think for a minute that ECMA ratification of the language syntax is any saving grace. Microsoft can break that specification whenever they want to, with the only detriment to them being they can no longer claim to be standards compliant. Considering how often Microsoft has been willing to break standards to suit their own needs, I certainly wouldn't hold on to any sense of security just because the ECMA has ratified a standard. If Microsoft breaks that standard and stops claiming its .Net complies with the ECMA standard, every implementation that does comply with the standard will be hosed.
Sun doesn't have the same luxury. It wouldn't make any sense for them to go around breaking licensed implementations of Java, as it would only hurt themselves. Sun doesn't control all the underlying Operating Systems that Java runs on, so they don't have the same monopoly power. Sun needs to be on the ggood side of its developers, as it's the developers (and not the users) that make Java a popular platform. Users make Windows a popular platform (or, more correctly user ignorance), and if you're trying to target those users, you have to dance to whatever tune Microsoft decides to play.
Java may not be free, but you're not selling your soul to the devil by developing against it.
Yaz.
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
The main argument people seem to use against
Aside from that, you can't really compare the JBoss/Tomcat servlet containers to
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
Let's compare apples to apples, let's talk about application servers.
J2EE is an appserver standard with multiple implementations, from open source ones to very expensive containers.
What's the standard for the
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2, Interesting)
absolutely agree on that point. If that is the primary concern for someone, then they should use perl, parrot or python. The comparison is apples to oranges, but the type of services is not that different. Both currently support webservices, a framework to build dynami
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
> JBoss/Tomcat servlet
You probably already know this, but JBoss is way way way more than a servlet container.
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5188012.html [com.com]
I googled for "Sun microsoft patents". First hit.
You should probaby look at this as well:
http://meh.ogreboy.org/google.gif [ogreboy.org]
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5188012.html I googled for "Sun microsoft patents". First hit.
Perhaps you should read the URLs you google? Nothing in there says anything about Sun suing Microsoft over Java patents.
You might also consider reading this [sun.com].
Don't chastise people for spreading Microsoft .NET FUD from your high horse while you go about spreading Java FUD.
Re:Whats better about Java? (Score:2)
Re:Miguel's great, but... (Score:2)
she's been a windows user for over 10 years now - and, like many other older professionals, doesn't use Windows by choice but basically because its there and everyone else uses it and it is what she is used to.
put her in front of a brand new mail client and calendaring system and it would take her some time to adapt. she cannot afford this time, her "switch" needs to be as seemless and as comfortable as possible.
this is why i think its great
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:4, Insightful)
However, Python, which bears little resemblance to Java, runs very nicely on the JVM thanks to the Jython project, and can import and use Java's class libraries and so forth. So maybe the JVM (and Java byte code) is more generalised than you thought.
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:3, Interesting)
I mentioned how prolific scripting languages had become, that some very large and revenue-generating systems were built on scripting languages. I asked given the industry-wide move toward virtual machines, what each of their products would be doing to facilitate scripting languages targeting the VMs.
John Montgomery admitted that the CLR did not really handle dynamically type
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:2, Informative)
Finally, there seems to be no reason to suppose that Java is somehow more flexible than
I'm not advocating the use of Mono (and I'm certainly n
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:2)
I do understand that there are several languages targeted at
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:5, Informative)
(the same developer that did Jython now has
a very fast implementation called IronPython that
was unveiled and demostrated at OSCON).
The problem is with languages that require pointers:
Fortran, C, C++ and some extra support is convenient
for some functional languages that the CLR
provides.
I mean, nothing really ground breaking, but the
CLR had a chance to learn from Java's limitations.
The new MS C++ compiler generates pure CIL executables
when using the
way of integrating existing C/C++ codebases with
managed codebases.
Miguel.
The CLR had a chance to learn but didn't take it. (Score:2)
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:2)
Personally, I have no problems at all with ditching pointer-oriented languages (full disclosure: I'm currently employed as a C and Python programmer) in favour of fully managed code, and indeed, I believe it's the future. This is especially true for the future "utility companies" of software (Microsoft is an obvious one), who will stream cod
Re:Miguel has told you why (Score:2)
SmartEiffel [loria.fr] (the GNU Eiffel compiler) is also able to compile to JVM bytecode (besides its more usual mode, which produces C code).
Why he is important (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not fair. What he is, is a realist. The fact is that as long as Microsoft has a vast majority of the desktops out there, any competing system has a choice: between creating their own 31337 world where only the initiated may play, or instead creating systems that work and play well with others. By paying close attention to what system and paradigms users are used to - that is to say, that Microsoft ships - Miguel helps furhter the rapid adoption of Linux as a viable Windows alternative.
Why he is imporant is not just that he realizes this, but that he does something about it. Real hackers write code for their beliefs, as he does.
Re:Why he is important (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why he is important (Score:2)
Gnome is certainly coming from the single user desktop direction, while most of linux has come from the *nix server direction (even KDE started from ideas of what could be done to improve CDE - not from what could be done to emulate win98). That has proved to be a bigger stength than weakness so far - it generally only pisses of those that are aware of system resources (low end machines or constantly busy machines) or those that want to use the system
Bravo, Miguel (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bravo, Miguel (Score:2)
Until Mono came along I'd never even heard of Java.
Re:Bravo, Miguel (Score:2)
Wrong tactic? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they should have just used a stunt by Steve Ballmer instead?
Steve (onstage): "Miguel, you're a great developer... DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!"
- sm
Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:2, Insightful)
I was just perusing the comments, and it seems a good bit of you folks are convinced that Icaza is a visionary and Microsoft
And the people that aren't "getting it" seem to be these people. If you really want to "get it" see the Samba project. That cat and mouse game has been going on for the better part of a decade.
Mono is a bridge to
Re:Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, by that blowing up truckloads of existing
Re:Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:2)
Assuming that Mono ever got to be 100% compatible (which is questionable) the carrot would be jerked away again. Think of a spanish donkey with features resembling Miguel's.
Re:Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:2)
Yes, changes might happen. But if the changes
break compatibility, existing applications also
stop working. Microsoft does a terrific job of
keeping backwards compatibility on their platform.
For instance, they are still maintaining
in addition to
to it. A simple answer would have been `upgrade
all your apps to 1.1', but they realize more than
anyone else that to keep people using their
platform they can not piss o
Re:Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:3, Informative)
That's pure FUD, and shows a complete lack of understand of the issues involved.
Samba has had problems with SMB because SMB was an undocumented protocol that changed as new features were added. Not because Microsoft was making changes just to screw them.
Re:Major Tom to Ground Control (Score:2)
Actually a lot less. Only C Sharp and the CLR are standardized, not Dotnet.
That's about 120 classes out of the 1200 or so in the 1.1 platform.
Welcome to the Dotnet-is-a-standard standard rebuttal btw, I suspect this won't be the last time you see it.
Miguel interview at Microsoft? (Score:2)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/05/explain _ yo urself_miguel_demands_rms/ or http://www.mexicobusiness.com/archives/julaug00/ed itorial/icaza.htm claim wasn't hired by Microsoft only because he would get the necessary visa.
I somehow doubt Microsoft would be willing to hire (and probably would, if it wasn't for the visa) somebody for who the interview w
RTFA! (Score:2, Interesting)
We are talking long term. In 10 years will 90% of windows software be written in
Has miguel ever had an original idea of his own? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now I'm not bashing his managerial skills (he got mono done very quickly) or his coding skills, but open source needs idea people, not the "me too"'s of this world.
Re:Has miguel ever had an original idea of his own (Score:2, Insightful)
OS in full of ideas, but lacks strong managers to give solid directions.
Re:How old is he ? (Score:2)
This clown posts this whenever Migue/Mono comes up (Score:3, Informative)
This clown has been posting the same drivel on slashdot since time immemorial and I don't believe a word he says.
Re:This clown posts this whenever Migue/Mono comes (Score:2)
Funny that you spend so much time questioning my motives and integrity when you could simply call the folks at Novell and ask them about the matter.
That would certainly put it to rest once and for all, wouldn't it?
But that would take all the fun out of getting your panties ballled up in a bunch, now wouldn't it?
The fact is, if you say you will arrive for a sales meeting and then don't bother
paradox of choice (Score:2)
Re:The other side of Miguel (Score:3, Informative)
I have never been detained, its a shame, because
the legend is a lot more interesting than the real
story
Miguel.