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Make Something Unreal Gets Next Phase Winners

simoniker posted about 10 years ago | from the not-phased dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 143

AskedRelic writes "The winners in Phase 3 of the previously mentioned 'Make Something Unreal' mod contest have been released. Big winners in this $1,000,000 prize pool Unreal modding contest include Red Orchestra for Best FPS Mod and Alien Swarm for Best Non-FPS Mod, as well as Clone Bandits for Best Vehicular Mod. Phase 4 entries close on August 20th, and the grand final entries, awarding $50,000 for the best overall mod, close October 1st." Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?

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Frist Phost (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909345)



Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909349)

See above!

Half-Life 2 (1)

Tiberius_Fel (770739) | about 10 years ago | (#9909350)

IMO the big modders will move on to things like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 now that they're out. This will make for great gaming. :-)

Re:Half-Life 2 (1)

SpootFinallyRegister (787720) | about 10 years ago | (#9909611)

i wouldnt be surprised if doom 3 didnt get a big mod following. apart from the network code being so-so, the engine probably has a lot less to do with doom 3's beauty than the artwork does. the models and levels in doom 3 have a mgnificently low polygon count, and art that doesnt stack up to the masterpieces in doom 3 will probably look shabby or use more polygons than the engine is designed for.

We made a Doom 3 mod already (5, Interesting)

Real Troll Talk (793436) | about 10 years ago | (#9909354)

The multiplayer issues with Doom 3 were disappointing, so myself and some friends put together this mod that allows up to 32 players in a multiplayer networked game.

See here [] for info and download kits.

Tools (-1, Flamebait)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | about 10 years ago | (#9909361)

Unreal has by far the best tools, why would people suddenly switch to Doom?

'sides, unless you are making a mod for Doom that involves dark rooms and monsters teleporting in behind you the options are kind of limited.

It depends (5, Insightful)

Myrmi (730278) | about 10 years ago | (#9909366)

The Ut2k4 engine is very versatile and easy to mod - as can be seen from the sheer quality and abundance of the mods that have been entered. With so many people who already have experience with the UT2k4 system, they may well stick to it if the Half Life 2 / Doom 3 engines are much more difficult to mod. The lower system requirements might be attractive, too.

That said, I'd love to see Natural Selection on Half Life 2.

Re:It depends (3, Interesting)

jeffskyrunner (701044) | about 10 years ago | (#9909509)

Well, someone said that all regular HL mods will work in HL2, because the engine is backwards compatible...But i would love to see NS2 on the HL2 engine :). Who knows, Maybe Flayra is working on it as we speak..or type...yea..

Re:It depends (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909744)

Flayra has started a company ( and is apparently working on something (though they wont say what, just that he isnt working on the latest patch). He was looking for some investors/publishers, and didnt seem to have any preference for an engine (valve didnt go down so well or something.)

Re:It depends (2, Informative)

GT_Onizuka (693787) | about 10 years ago | (#9909840)

Q: Can I play HL modifications with Half-Life 2? A: The original and sequel use two very different game engines and it's not possible to play mods from one game with the other. I got this from the FAQ []

Re:It depends (1)

Zakabog (603757) | about 10 years ago | (#9909514)

Have you ever actually tried to create a server side mod (mutator) for UT2K4? The stuff that's possible is very weak. The language is very basic which makes it easy, but the stuff you can do is very limited. The Doom 3 engine doesn't see to difficult to mod, don't know why it would be, the only difference would be like the language, and map editors or whatever. Someone can make the map editors very similar so then the difference would just be the language.

Re:It depends (1)

mdwebster (158623) | about 10 years ago | (#9909569)

What does the fact that mutators only have limited power have to do with anything?
Almost any mod is going to include new models/textures and therefore need a client-side install anyway. Why the focus on mutators?

Re:It depends (2, Insightful)

Mia'cova (691309) | about 10 years ago | (#9909884)

UnrealScript is hardly a "very basic" language. It's responsible for the entirety of the entire game code (with a few things written in c++ for performance). That means that the vehicles, weapons, networking, player movement, menus, HUD, console, bot AI, and pretty well everything is written with this language. If what you can do is "very limited" I'm thinking it might not be the language.

As a side-note to those who're curious, UnrealScript is a bit of a cross between Java and c++. It also has replication (networking), states, and time built right into the language. This, IMHO, makes it an extremely powerful language for game design.

(and yes, I have created server-side mods before :)

If it ever gets released... (4, Interesting)

DesertJester (803191) | about 10 years ago | (#9909367)

If HL2 ever gets released it spawn some very intresting mods. As for Doom3, we have seen the first of what I hope will be the next gen. of mods...things that help the game. But for the time being keep working on Unreal...

Re:If it ever gets released... (1)

slughead (592713) | about 10 years ago | (#9909520)

Doom3 has mulitplayer, half-life2 is going to be Counterstrike + physics (the engine not really being HL2, but an upgraded HL1).

At least, that's how I understand it, anyone have any definitive info?

Re:If it ever gets released... (1)

one4nine4two (683126) | about 10 years ago | (#9909766)

I sincerely doubt that the Source engine is an upgraded HL1 engine. The HL1 engine is based off the Quake and Quake 2 engines, which are eight years old. At this point there probably needs to be some major changes in the core architecture of the engine to take advantage of all the new graphical technologies since 1996.

Re:If it ever gets released... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910247)

After looking at Source's source (no pun intended) as was leaked, I for one will stand to confirm that it is indeed merely a revamped Half-Life 1 engine.

I would like to add... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910537)

That having closely examined God's anus, I have undeniable proof that hyper intelligent extra terrestrial life does indeed exist... and that they call themselves Alice.

Trust me... I know what I'm talking about and the only reason that I am posting this as an AC is that, well I mean, HOLY SHIT! IS THAT ELVIS?!?

How about best installer? (2, Interesting)

British (51765) | about 10 years ago | (#9909368)

I remember wanting to try one popular ut2004 mod, but installation involved somewhat vague instructions to copy over a bunch of files(with subdirs) into your ut directory.

I didn't even bother, not wanting to screw up my pristine ut2004 install for some mod.

Re:How about best installer? (2, Interesting)

selderrr (523988) | about 10 years ago | (#9909435)

ermh... so you prefer an installation application without instructions to copy over a bunch of files (with subdirs) into your ut directory, screwing up your pristine ut2004 install for some mod ?


Re:How about best installer? (4, Informative)

Hi_2k (567317) | about 10 years ago | (#9909474)

Most UT mods come in the UMOD format, essentialy a zip file with some special instructions for the UT installer program. I dont know where you've been getting your mods without it.

Re:How about best installer? (1)

Fallen Andy (795676) | about 10 years ago | (#9909590)

You shouldn't fear installing anything because it might hose your pristine UT. It isn't like you have to reinstall XP. Unreal in all forms is very light footprint in terms of stamping over the reg etc.

My own sys has UT classic (reinstalled from scratched CD's don't ask how) and many other things and *not* by the usual install. Mine has maps stolen from the DA mod and much other stuff simply because I thought it was a fun idea.

It works. It's written by people who don't like f*king with your registry or anything else. You copy the maps to the maps dir, the music to the music dir etc. and if you don't like them, trash them...

Not at all painful. Not at all what you'd expect. But then again UT never is...

(Right now I think I could fall in love with onslaught - if only I'd not decided to use a 1.5G P4 with 32MB card as my engineering+programming box...). Still my colleague isn't here so I can borrow *his* machine. Ah. The pleasures of living in one's own office... Just hope my Cretan friend doesn't notice the cig ash and (shit) burn mark and (shit) dent (???) in the machine... Oh my god, he's going to kill me. (Didn't happen).

Really - D.O.N.T. P.A.N.I.C

The new -mod switch (1)

Mia'cova (691309) | about 10 years ago | (#9910138)

UT2004 introduced a way for modders to contain their entire mods within their own directories, using a -mod switch to launch into the mod. You can switch between mods once you've loaded the game too, of course. There's a listing of these TC-type mods in the community section of the game.

Small mods or maps, etc tend to clog up your directories as they're treated no differently from the retail content. That integration is nice in its own way but I probably still agree with you.


Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909383)


bobhagopian (681765) | about 10 years ago | (#9909396)

Your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but it also suggests that you don't click over to /. nearly often enough. Check out yesterday's article about SP2 [] . There are plenty of reasons to yell and scream about Slashdot, but this is not one of them.


Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909439)

Well before you get your panties in a twist bub, recognize /. did post this, yesterday [] . Dork.


DesertJester (803191) | about 10 years ago | (#9909469)

I normaly dont waste keystrokes on items like this but, I do have one question...were you on another planet yesterday?

No (5, Insightful)

wviperw (706068) | about 10 years ago | (#9909387)

"Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?"

Absolutely not. We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909399)

pls, mod this up, tyia

Re:No (0)

asdfghjklqwertyuiop (649296) | about 10 years ago | (#9909610)

We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

Huh? For starters, Ut2004 is the first unreal game to have vehicles (land, air, space). Neither UT or Q3 had them.

Re:No (1)

qbwiz (87077) | about 10 years ago | (#9909657)

There are mods for UT that have vehicles, so the original engine worked with vehicles.

Re:No (5, Informative)

wviperw (706068) | about 10 years ago | (#9909702)

I'm not speaking of trivial things like vehicles. There is nothing inherantly special in having vehicles, as both UT and Q3 did in fact support them through mods. I am speaking of the fundamental characteristics of the core game engine. Doom 3's revolutionary new light/shadow rendering system (yes, I believe it is revolutionary), in addition to D3's utilization of DX9 features and its complex scripting languge all contribute to making D3 a next generation engine. Similarly, HL2 also takes advantage of DX9, as well as having a very robust physics engine, making the HL2 engine next generation as well.

Re:No (4, Informative)

Mia'cova (691309) | about 10 years ago | (#9909843)

The difference between UT/Q3 and UT2003/2004 in vehicle support is that the latter has Karma physics built in. When you're modding, the physics engine is just one of those things that makes a huge impact on the end result. Physics is *NOT* trivial in the least.

For example, some friends and I built some big walking mechs as UT2004 vehicles. The coding, while tricky and a little finicky, is actually pretty simple to understand. We're able to subclass an existing vehicle to get all the player/vehicle interactions. Over-ride one or two things and change the DefaultProperties (part of the UnrealScript language) to get rid of the few aspects that didn't work. Then we'd just set things up with karma so that the feet "repulsed" the ground (no floating feet on hills). The repulsors are attached to the animation's bones. Time the animation to the speed and add in the weapons and you've got something very new without too much work. And in this case, you don't even have to worry about networking; it just works.

I'm really just trying to say that there's a big difference between possible and practical. Vehicles are not in the least bit trivial. I think with all the modders currently working away at UT2004, the question to ask might be what will be the big new modding draw offered by Doom 3 or Half-Life 2? I know UnrealScript and UnrealED.. what can Doom 3 or Half-Life do that I can't do in UT2004?

I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as Doom 3 goes. For a start, it doesn't use DX9. It uses OpenGL. While I completely agree that the lighting is revolutionary, I don't think we're going to see a revival of Dark Match (remember in Unreal 1, all those years back, the dark levels with flashlights? Yes, in Unreal 1. It has been done again and again in the Unreal engine but has never taken off.) The gameplay wasn't there then and I'm not sure how it'll pan out now that proper lighting is truly available. In any case, Doom 3's modding is crippled by a 4-player multiplayer limit and lack of vehicles (afaik). I'm not sure how that will evolve or if it's not applicable to interested modders but it has me worried.

Half-life 2 looks promising for modding. Valve is a strong supporter of modding, the engine seems solid (nVidia issues asside) and sufficiently advanced, and there's an existing mod community that's thriving. But perhaps most importantly, people love realistic mods. Why does that make a difference? Well, when you're starting off you can pull content from the game. It helps tremendously when you can just use an existing explosion effect with your own grenade model. Existing content is a HUGE draw to modders and perhaps one of the most important considerations. The only downside to half-life 2 is that we really don't know how it'll run on older hardware. Counter-strike, for example, is insanely popular because it combines attractive gameplay and low system requirements. I don't know about you, but I've seen a whole lot of LAN parties degenerate to counter-strike because it's the only (popular...) game that EVERYONE can play.

Anyways, that's just how I feel about it :)

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910279)

the one thing i didnt like about ut2004 was the lack of a decent realistic mod, maybe an upgraded CS. RO wasnt my cup of tea (gameplay issues)... and the lack of new content vs ut2003 seemed really bad. Of course they didnt change 54$.... as to developing. the vehicles are nice in some ways, but clearly first generation, and that's frustrating at time, especially with everyone building crappy race maps with movers that dont collide correctly or physics volumes that dont work with svehicles. i'm hoping that hl2 will provide better vehicles, but i doubt it. I'm gonna hate waiting for the unreal 3 engine to fix those problems...

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909821)

You're right that the engine is fairly dated now (though it is a significant improvement on UT... look at the vegetation for instance). However, Halo had a fancy new graphics engine and the Halo mod scene is not exactly massive. It depends how much support is given to modders by the designers, and the UT2004 team do that in spades. iD will presumably also be good to the modders, but we will have to wait and see.

Re:No (2, Insightful)

HeLLFiRe1151 (743468) | about 10 years ago | (#9909875)

You are an idiot, how the hell can you compare the Unreal 432 with Unreal 3236, do you have any idea what those numbers mean? . You are comparing a 2 year old engine with a 2 day old engine? The only reason you think the Doom 3 engine is all that is because of how pretty it is. Well, take another look. Your precious doom 3 engine is all indoors, id has never made a decent engine that can handle longer distances, the engines have always catered to close quarter combat. The Unreal engine is under constant redevelopment, handles long and short distance. Unreal sets the standard and others follow.

Re:No (1)

asdfghjklqwertyuiop (649296) | about 10 years ago | (#9909931)

Absolutely not. We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

And the other thing is, if mod developers are so interested in new engine features, why has half life 1 modding been so popular? Halflife 1 is what, 6 years old now? People have been producing new mods for that long after that engine became dated (see natural selection). If mod developers were concerned about the latest graphics features, you'd think they would have moved on from the half-life 1 engine by now.

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910184)

> why has half life 1 modding been so popular?

Installed base?

Look at it this way -- if CounterStrike wasn't still so popular, would anyone be doing new HL1 mods?

mapping != modding, and ut is better for modding (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910218)

I don't like the ut2004 engine for very specific reasons, but I use it, and I may move to source instead of doom 3.

1) Unreals vehicles suck, but at least they exist. Where does doom stand here?
2) unreals outdoor environments are a pain to generate. But, where does doom stand?
3) Unreals scripting language is easy to use, but somewhat counter-intuitive/odd due to the way objects are passed/they do replication. I haven't coded with doomIII or source, but it would be hard to be more friendly to new modders. My problem with uscript is that it's too primitive for my taste.
4) Unreal's gametypes provide a great deal of AI and game development support. Onslaught, assault, domination, bombing run? The breadth of classes and functionality is outstanding, and makes variants of standard types and innovation much easier, instead of your basic FPS w bigger weapons mod.
5) Doom 3 isn't older-machine friendly, and that's a big deal considering many modders arent rich and many long-time players and mod supporters arent wealthy. the final doom III build doesn't run on gforce mx 440, despite what the reviews say. Hell, the intro screen wont run on my 440 and i can run ut2004 with max settings on most maps. I love carmack, but that's just poor coding/optimization/release [and no, i wont buy an nvidia card ever again].

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910282)

And how is this "+5 insightful"? It offers no insight at all and summarizes to "Doom 3 is new, UT is old".

The 12 year olds must have all the mod points.


Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910333)

please read the more thoughtful replies to this troll. some people put some effort into their posts.


Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909400)

Three days EARLY! []

Whats the matter slashdot? Another attack of news censorship on your part eh?

ut2k4 (2, Interesting)

barcodez (580516) | about 10 years ago | (#9909401)

I bought this game sometime ago when I still have a Windows machine at home. However I haven't played it since ridding myself of the windows machine. Is it possible to get it working on Linux? Any good howtos?

Re:ut2k4 (2, Informative)

thryllkill (52874) | about 10 years ago | (#9909416)

I believe it comes with Linux binaries on it. Yup, that's what my box says.

Re:ut2k4 (1)

barcodez (580516) | about 10 years ago | (#9909430)

Stupid me I have ut2k3 - will certainly buy ut2k4 ASAP - does it work just as well on Linux?

Re:ut2k4 (1)

thryllkill (52874) | about 10 years ago | (#9909450)

ut2k3 has linux binaries on disc three as well...

as far as how well it runs? I don't know. My linux box is a pretty old P3 with a Radeon 8500 LE, so I don't bother putting games on it.

Re:ut2k4 (1)

Crizp (216129) | about 10 years ago | (#9909779)

I've got a Piii 667 with Radeon 7200 64MB VIVO (old half-assed crap radeon) and Utk3 runs smooth, utk4 ok smooth (got no fps count, but no skipping).

In Linux though I don't know.

I had to try Doom 3 on this box, and I was surprised I even got it started! The Radeon didn't understand much of vertex lighting and some of the other new features - they turned into black polygons. And the frame rate? 3-4 fps if there was no action, 0,5 fps if I moved around a bit and had other people in view.

That's with no advanced features and 640x480 low quality. In two months I'll be getting an Athlon64 based machine with Radeon X800.

Doom 3 is the only game in a few years I have bought, and the only one that made me want to upgrade my computer for the game only - just by looking at those first videos.

Re:ut2k4 (1)

Omestes (471991) | about 10 years ago | (#9909834)

From my experience with every UT game, is that they run very well, even with less than minimum hardware requirements.

It should run great. With my poor little 2000+(ish) box, with 512ddr, and a Radeon 7500, I could run it one high graphics at highest resolution. You should be fine.

ut2k4 on Linux (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909616)

It runs *beautifully* on Linux. Even voice chat and text-to-voice is working. But make sure you get the latest patch for it, as the retail version had an annoying Crash-To-Desktop bug that has since been fixed.

Re:ut2k4 on Linux (1)

GT_Onizuka (693787) | about 10 years ago | (#9909813)

I can vouch for this, my system isn't the best and UT2K4 runs without a hitch both on Linux and Windows. P4 2.2 GHz 256 MB RAM GeForce FX 5200 128MB And I was wondering why my install at the LAN would crash. Looks like I should pick up a copy myself!

Re:ut2k4 (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | about 10 years ago | (#9909772)

Mine's got a installer script right beside the WIn32 Setup.exe.


Re:ut2k4 (2, Informative)

dj_paulgibbs (619622) | about 10 years ago | (#9909431)

It works with linux out of the box (although, as of course you'd do with a Windows game, you'd want to patch it to the latest version after you've installed it).

There's a .sh script on the last CD/on the dvd that you run which should launch the installer, IIRC.

ut2k4/linux (5, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | about 10 years ago | (#9909537)

UT2k4 works better on Linux. On identical hardware I get about 30% more FPS. If you have the CD version, run the shell script on CD1. Some caveats:

  • The installer only works in X
  • You'll need the driver installed for your video card first
  • Some distros use an obnoxious method for automounting CD's that conflict with the installer. Open another window to unmount and mount the CD's in this case
  • The installer writes to a number of directories including /usr/local/games/ut2004, /usr/share/applications, /usr/share/applnk/Games and /usr/local/bin. You'll need write access to these, so the installer may need to run as root. Once installed you can run as a normal user.
  • Some Mods are not available for the linux version
  • There is no linux version of the editor
Happy fragging!

As long as you've got an Nvidia card... (1)

leathered (780018) | about 10 years ago | (#9909890)

UT2k4 works better on Linux. On identical hardware I get about 30% more FPS.

UT2004 runs poorly on ATI hardware. No doubt due to their pitiful excuse for Linux drivers. Where you see a 30% increase in fps, I see a 30% slowdown at the very least with my 9600 Pro.
ATI are said to be rewriting their OpenGL ICD and not before time. I wish I held on to my Geforce 3.

Perhaps I can explain. (1)

SlashdotTroll (581611) | about 10 years ago | (#9910317)

Glad to help you out with some information on ATI's drivers: they are designed for the "Prophesional" visualization developers in mind; CAD, 3D Modeling, etc. ATI continualy conveys to the public and private that their unsupported closed-source Linux drivers, consisting of the GLX implementation and X server (IIRC) are designed for the FireGL models of their graphics accelerators which were near identical and compatible to the retail consumer available models with exception that they are of'course furlongs much more expensive.

Please don't ask me why ATI doesn't properly engineer their drivers for the consumer chipsets; it just so happens that the Fire GL Z1 and X1 models of ATI's graphics accelerators are the new hotness of "High End" shenanigans and their ilk. I remember back in the day that my Elsa Gloria XL with 40MB of blessed EDO RAM was the New Hotness and "SHab00m High End", but alas it is a cadillac with a long-lived useless soul in terms of recent openGL improvements beyond ARB openGL spec 1.1.

ATI can do better, but their way of you paying for it is to go visit CmdrTaco's come-on-baby-light-my-fire-department to purchase a US $800.00 FirGL ZX1 revb T-2016 graphics accelerator.


Re:ut2k4/linux (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910100)

Not to be a Gentoo Zealot but there is a Gentoo Live CD with UT2k4

Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (3, Interesting)

gfecyk (117430) | about 10 years ago | (#9909406)

Windows game authors are the laziest when it comes to designing for security... ok, they're second only to travel software companies.

My vote for Best Mod would be the one that lets me play UT without requiring Power User or Administrator access on XP or Win2K. That way I could set up an internet cafe / LAN party place without having to worry if the customers wreck the machines.

I mean come on. If I can fix Quake II [] , then the makers of UT can fix UT. Or a talented mod author can.

Re:Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (3, Insightful)

Omicron32 (646469) | about 10 years ago | (#9909421)

Or you could just let them play on the Linux version of UT2k4 and lock down the machine.

Re:Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (4, Interesting)

blowdart (31458) | about 10 years ago | (#9909440)

That's usually because they install into c:\program files and require write access. Lazy programmers won't use the profile directory, or (in the case of C&C generals, dump stuff into My Documents instead of the Application Settings directory)

Install them into c:\games and away you go.

Re:Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (2, Informative)

timothv (730957) | about 10 years ago | (#9909667)

Except the license prohibits you from running it in an internet cafe, and you can install only one copy per computer for your LAN party. By the way, I'm reporting you.

Re:Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (1)

MightyPez (734706) | about 10 years ago | (#9910532)

Except the license prohibits you from running it in an internet cafe, and you can install only one copy per computer for your LAN party. By the way, I'm reporting you.

Sounds like someone has never heard of commercial liscensing. Most companies have some sort of liscensing agreements either from themselves (Like Blizzard) or through third party entities. The owners subscribe to these and can use the software ina commercial enviroment.

Re:Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 10 years ago | (#9910520)

Or you could use some software like DeepFreeze to restore machines to a given configuration if they get hosed up somewhat.

Given that you're running Windows, commercial software is the official answer.

Far Cry modding (2, Interesting)

Wm_K (761378) | about 10 years ago | (#9909417)

Actually Far cry has some excellent mod tools (especially their sandbox editor is great). With the SDK available at [] I expect their will be some excellent mods coming from this game. Far Cry seemed to be quite ahead of Half-life 2 and Doom 3 at the moment of release.

Mod Makers Moving on (4, Interesting)

frostbane (660953) | about 10 years ago | (#9909444)

Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon? Its up for grabs, Epic was able to attract lots of modders with their contest and because they had the newest engine at the time. Now they no long have the 'sexiest' engine and people are moving on. Some of the devs from Red Orchestra are now working on a HL2 mod Insurgency.

Re:Mod Makers Moving on (2, Informative)

frostbane (660953) | about 10 years ago | (#9909461)

Left out a '"' in a tag and it dropped the link. Links are below:

Insurgency Mod [] [] - Great coverage of HL2 mod news

Re:Mod Makers Moving on (1)

asdfghjklqwertyuiop (649296) | about 10 years ago | (#9909626)

Some of the devs from Red Orchestra are now working on a HL2 mod Insurgency.

How did they decide to start using HL2 when it hasn't been released yet?

Re:Mod Makers Moving on (1)

Crizp (216129) | about 10 years ago | (#9909794)

These modders are obviously quite 1337 and have surely attracted attention from game developers. Most likely they're working on a beta supplied by the company.

Re:Mod Makers Moving on (1)

Wm_K (761378) | about 10 years ago | (#9910012)

A mod has lots of predictable elements like models, textures, sound. All those can be made already without the need for any version of the game.

Re:Mod Makers Moving on (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910139)

I have experience with coding/modding/mapping in Ut2004, and while it's easy to mod with its scripting language (unrealscript), but it's not all that great in terms of functionality--especially the vehicles and physics system.Those issues may move people over to newer engines, more than anything...and because the scripting language basically passes copies of objects (though there are some caveats), it can be a pain to develop in (i'm not sure about other engines). As for Red Orchestra, i was really not impressed with it and I'm very suprised they won--the mod scene for ut2004 just hasn't impressed me much at all.

I can't take it anymore! (1, Troll)

necronom426 (755113) | about 10 years ago | (#9909456)

Can someone PLEASE tell me what that weird red and silver icon is that gets used on FPS articles?

Everytime I see it I stare at it, trying to work out what scale it is (2cm long? 2 miles long?) and what it could possible be.

It's a red thing, with a sort of pin and trigger type thing and a silver tube thing, with a thing stuck to it. Arghh!

Someone put me out of my misery!

Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

Wm_K (761378) | about 10 years ago | (#9909464)

it's the rocket launcher from quake.

Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

necronom426 (755113) | about 10 years ago | (#9909516)

Thanks mate. I haven't played it, so I didn't know.

Shees, someone called me a troll for asking a question that's been bugging me for ages. What's wrong with some people. I'll go and do a search for some Quake pics.



Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

robotoperasinger (707047) | about 10 years ago | (#9909466)

It's the rocket launcher from Quake 3 Arena.

Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

necronom426 (755113) | about 10 years ago | (#9909532)

Thanks for that. I'll go and look for some Quake pics. I played Doom 1 & 2, but never got Quake.

(OT) Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

ca1v1n (135902) | about 10 years ago | (#9909581)

I accidentally modded you down. Not quite sure how that happened. Anyway, replying here ought to undo that. It would be nice if we had a way to undo our own mods without requiring a post, wouldn't it.

Re:(OT) Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

necronom426 (755113) | about 10 years ago | (#9909670)

Okay, no problem.

I thought someone thought that I was pretending I didn't know what it was because they expected everyone in the world to know what a Quake 3 rocket launcher looked like.

I've found some pics of it now. It's an odd looking thing :-)

Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

Neophytus (642863) | about 10 years ago | (#9909662)

On the off chance you're serious it's a rocket launcher (the Q3 one?)

Re:I can't take it anymore! (1)

necronom426 (755113) | about 10 years ago | (#9909680)

Yep, I was serious. Thanks.

Re:I can't take it anymore! (2, Funny)

dumdeedum (150099) | about 10 years ago | (#9909718)

Someone put me out of my misery!

The icon does in fact represent the perfect tool for this.

nah, the chicken launcher can't be beaten... (1)

tommeke100 (755660) | about 10 years ago | (#9909457)

And that was from Doom 1 !!! Chicken Launcher rulzzzz.... One chicken launcher to rule them all !!!

Re:nah, the chicken launcher can't be beaten... (1)

HFXPro (581079) | about 10 years ago | (#9909554)

The doberman launcher was even better. It even had target seeking abilities.

Mod mod mod (3, Insightful)

JediDan (214076) | about 10 years ago | (#9909577)

Modders will mod just about anything for the sake of modding. The fact that it's easy will attract some while repel others, and vice versa. The fact there is money tied to this particular competition puts it in the headlines but doesn't necessarily draw out anything that hasn't been seen elsewhere.

Viva la Mod!
(posted with a ten-foot bamboo pole in a treehouse made from legos)

Re:Mod mod mod (2, Interesting)

abandonment (739466) | about 10 years ago | (#9909754)

exactly. the sheer amount of effort that goes into mods just boggles my mind - these wanna-be developers spend years of their lives trying to make a game, and in the end, only end up making something that they can't sell, can't publish, can't make money on - the big 'reward' for being a mod author seems to be that you might get hired as an employee at one of these companies...

i teach at a school that used to exclusively teach unreal modding as a substitute for learning game design...i'm slowly trying to introduce other engines into the mix - and the school is slowly waking up to the fact that having students spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition so they might make a few thousand in a mod-contest is NOT the way to go...

why not check out one of the many engines that will actually allow the students to publish their games afterwards? at least then they might get something out of their 20-grand-a-year tuition that most of these schools charge...

anyways, [/end rant] ;}

Re:Mod mod mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9910375)

posted with a ten-foot bamboo pole...

let me guess...
you're running NetBSD?

flav-o-matic (-1, Troll)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 10 years ago | (#9909620)

You know it baby. The frosty mods know the flavor of COCK!

Red Orchestra?? (3, Interesting)

madatmetoo (794327) | about 10 years ago | (#9909621)

How is Red Orchestra above and beyond any other UT FPS Mod? In the opinion of many UT gamers, Air Buccaneers [] is the best FPS mod created for UT.

Re:Red Orchestra?? (1)

tommeke100 (755660) | about 10 years ago | (#9909693)

I checked the site impressive indeed!
Flying around in hot-air balloons...
It actually just looks like a new game, only using the UT 3-d engine.

Re:Red Orchestra?? (1)

Mia'cova (691309) | about 10 years ago | (#9910107)

Air Buccaneers was considered a NON-FPS mod. That's a separate category from FPS, where Red Orchestra resides. AB took 2nd place to Alien Swarm, which probably won out based on the incredible amount of polish put into it. You could be fooled into thinking Alien Swarm was a retail product the way it looks.

Why mod a single to 4 player game? (1)

Fallen Andy (795676) | about 10 years ago | (#9909640)

Uh. Doom 3 is probably out. HL2 we cannot speculate about. The unreal engine has shown good longevity and moddability so you go figure. I don't see anyone queueing up yet and in any case do we yet have a nethack mod or a dungeon keeper or . Nope? Just more stinking mod's to make you look like alice cooper on acid? Oh he is ? Not even a good research trick or joke (like psdoom?). Nope. Boring. Really. (runs off and runs UT classic and DA-fastfoodwar as a DM).

Re:Why mod a single to 4 player game? (2, Interesting)

MightyPez (734706) | about 10 years ago | (#9910543)

You do realize that Doom 3 is limited to 4 players only in the Doom "mod" itself, right? It can be changed to however many players to mod creator likes (within the limits of the engine). As for Half-Life 2, Valve announced they will be releasing mod tools before the game was released.

KillBillyBarn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#9909644)

best original content map in a long long time. the details in this map are amazing, as is the playablity. Teddie is the man.

Of course.. (4, Insightful)

sinner0423 (687266) | about 10 years ago | (#9909704)

It will be half life 2, which mod makers will embrace. UT2k3 is great, the dev tools they offer are completely up to par. Developers are doing crazy things with the unreal engine, and I give them full credit for their endeavors.

However.. there is a certain modification [] for HL1 which was so good, it was the first game mod to garner extreme commercial success. I have yet to see a mod for a game which has had the attention & the impact that CS did.

Gooseman & the CS dev team did this without the incentive of a million dollars, too. It was out of sheer enjoyment of one of the best PC games, in my opinion, that has ever been created. Perhaps Valve will learn from Epic, and decide to offer some cash prizes to mod developers. This would, in my mind, push the community even farther than it's already gone.

Re:Of course.. (2, Interesting)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | about 10 years ago | (#9909915)

"Perhaps Valve will learn from Epic, and decide to offer some cash prizes to mod developers. This would, in my mind, push the community even farther than it's already gone."

VALVe said that one feature of their Steam content delivery is that they will allow mod makers to put their stuff up there to be sold.

Some people might not justify, that in the future one might have to pay a (small) fee for a mod ; but this is all in the hands of those same mod makers, which will hopefully also be able to release their mods for free (if they prefer too).

I myself don't mind too much, as the market will decide what it thinks is worth its money ; And there have been plenty of occasions i would have loved to pay a small fee ; let's say five dollars, for a few Mods i've been playing and enjoying in the past

I hope VALVe , after HL2 is released, will release some more info on their future Steam plans.

Q3A, BF1942, BF:V, UT2004, DOOM 3, & HL2 (4, Insightful)

antdude (79039) | about 10 years ago | (#9909725)

I bought UT2004 recently on DVD because of Alien Swarm [] and Red Orchestra mods. I didn't care about its regular UT2004 game. The playable demo didn't impressed me except the pretty graphics. The mods were the big stars for me.

I bought BF1942 for its game mostly, but I was surprised to see mods coming out like Forgotten Hope [] , Battlefield Pirates [] , Desert Combat [] , Galactic Conquest [] , etc.

I hope the same is for DOOM 3 for mod support. I would love to see Aliens-type of game with DOOM 3 engine and with co-operative play. How about System Shock 2 type of game? I loved that game! It was scary.

I sold Quake 3 Arena a few days ago and uninstalled Half-Life a few months ago because it was time to leave their engines and their mods.

Re:Q3A, BF1942, BF:V, UT2004, DOOM 3, & HL2 (2, Funny)

Obiwan Kenobi (32807) | about 10 years ago | (#9910001)

How about System Shock 2 type of game? I loved that game!

Oh, they already included that one in the box for you. They just renamed it.

Unreal engine physics. (1, Interesting)

leathered (780018) | about 10 years ago | (#9909832)

I enjoyed the original UT and very much liked UT2004 but the thing that stops me getting into them seriously is the overall 'feel' of the games. This is somewhat of a grey area but veteran fps gamers will know what I'm talking about.

Game physics is what id has always excelled at, not only with movement but with the feel of the weapons. The Q2/3 railgun is a classic example, there has never been a UT single shot hitscan weapon weapon which, in the hands of a skilled player, can be consistantly used with deadly accuracy. In UT you often hit thin air when you are certain you have your enemy in your crosshairs, possibly due to poor prediction in the netcode.

Movement also tends to feel unnatural in UT. I could never set up the mouse sensitivity to my tastes. It's too sensitive when you make small movements, as if there is in-built mouse acceleration, with id games there is a specific setting where you can adjust this along with mouse pitch and yaw. Air control is virtually none existant, when id first introduced air control with Q3, they got it spot-on.

The UT engine certainly looks very pretty, but if I was a modder and I wanted maximum exposure I would write it for Enemy Territory like the next version of Urban Terror (a great CS alternative). After all ET is free and is very popular.

Re:Unreal engine physics. (5, Insightful)

Mia'cova (691309) | about 10 years ago | (#9910071)

I've got to disagree with you on a few points here. While I'm a huge fan of the Q2/3 physics (rocket-jumping, strafe-jumping, plasma climbing...), that's not to say the feel to your movement in the Unreal camp is lacking its own advantages (dodging, lift-jumping, higher air-control). There's a vastly different feel and strong players in one camp really have a tough time jumping back and forth between the two. I think I'm one of the rare people (honestly) who's used to both sets of physics. I can strafe-jump my way around a huge RA3 map and then happily move to 2003/4 and lift jump from the bottom to top of DM-compressed without even thinking about it.

I mention air control as a plus for the Unreal camp. I say that because there's more air control for Unreal games. Unreal 1 had air control. I'm not entirely sure but I doubt that Q3 was the first id game to have air control. I thought Q2 and maybe even Q1 had air control. Maybe someone could clarify this for me. U1 came out (slightly) before Quake 2 though so Q3 was certainly not the first game with air control.

The feel of the weapons is more in the hands of the artists and designers than the engine coders. There's some interaction with the physics but if they say to add this much momentum in some direction, it doesn't really have anything to do with the physics engine. Maybe because you slide more in Quake you prefer that feel. Everyone loves the railgun though. It'd be hard not to :)

As for poor netcode. Sorry but it's just not true. There is a slightly different feel to the two games' netcode, eg I find leading more helpful in Quake though I might just be insane. But when you say the good UT players can't use a hit-trace weapon consistently, you're just wrong. Drop by and download some recordings of pro players. I think you'll find that if they're playing Q3 or UT, they're making their shots with deadly accuracy.

And one last point about the mouse... UT seems just as configurable to me. Finding UT too sensitive for small movements would seem to imply mouse acceleration in Quake, not UT. But that aside, UT has a bunch of options for you too. Pitch, yaw, and master sensitivities, obviously those are there. There are a bunch of options to configure the mouse smoothing as well. You can set it to whatever level of sensitivity you want. There's also some mouse accel, separate menu-only settings, and force-feedback you can toy with if you're interested.

I really believe that these days it comes down to knowing your game, rather than who does what better. Differences exist for good reason. Maps in Quake are designed to accommodate their physics. They know you can strafe-jump and rocket-jump. In UT, they know you can lift-jump and dodge-jump. I think these differences make for different games and add to the variety we all get to enjoy. I'd hate to lose any of that because people start believing that one physics implementation becomes considered the best.

Hopefully GTK Radiant D3 will be out soon :/ (1, Offtopic)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | about 10 years ago | (#9909846)

"Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?"

With the current Doom 3 support regarding ALL facets of making game assets ?


I trust id for releasing better documents later on ; but still : I played my ass off, only to get busy with editing later that night.
The official default Radiant editors that are released with id-engined games tend to be very suck compared to ,for instance, GTK Radiant.
I am seriously wondering how the mappers were ever able to comfortably create maps with this current build :/

The current editor is filled with bugs, and only people with knowledge of the previous Q3 way of working know how to start off (since there are very few (official) tutorials released).

I can go on and on ; i love the game, love the engine. But man, when will id learn and release the proper tools (thinking of a decent map editor, GUI documentation, and something they defenitely have overseen ; A Machinima interface/tool with it :/)

Yay, AirBuccaneers (2, Insightful)

istewart (463887) | about 10 years ago | (#9910054)

I'm glad to see that mod still in the running, even if it is in second place. It still needs a little bit of polish, but I think it could make it as a standalone game. It's basically a pirate mod with balloons instead of ships. Sadly, the number of players and servers has been decreasing since their last release. A lot of people also didn't seem to understand that the game pretty much forces teamwork. Really, really good players can sometimes handle all 3 stations (steering, cannon aiming, cannon loading/lighting) on a balloon at once, but oftentimes people would take off with only a 1- or 2-person crew. However, when you have a full crew complement, it becomes one of the most fun games i've ever come across.

But the rope used to get on board a balloon in the air is a bitch, especially when your ping is through the roof like mine usually is.

Date is wrong... (1)

xactoguy (555443) | about 10 years ago | (#9910529)

Epic has moved back the dates for Phase 4 and the Grand Finale. They are September 10th and November 15th respectively. More details here []
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