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Amiga Comeback?

CmdrTaco posted more than 15 years ago | from the we've-heard-that-before dept.

Amiga 169

An anonymous reader sent us linkage to a fairly lengthy ZD Net story on Amiga and its "Comeback" (if you're keeping count, this is approximately the 293 thousanth time someone has suggested an Amiga comeback). They talk about Amiga 'net appliances and low cost Amiga PCs.

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Amiga Comeback (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979302)

I have a suspicion that the Amiga is the Elvis
of the computing world, everyone loved it when
it was around, and now that its dead, the faithful
keep seeing it appear in fridges and cars and
stereos etc

Robs sound pissed coz Linux sux ;) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979303)

But seriously, it's nice to read an article where they have actually done some research.

Don't you all think Rob should start complaining about all the posts about M$ downfall or the rise of Linux too, since the are so damn common, and not to forget: boring.

Linux Comeback? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979304)

So after everyone discovers Linux isn't ready for the desktop and the Linux balloon bursts this year, do you think Linux has a chance of making a comeback? Maybe in server appliances?

Apple ][ Comeback? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979305)

Yeah, the oldies sure were great, weren't they? The Amiga and the NeXT did things a decade ago that PCs are just discovering today. Lets bring the Apple ][ back and maybe I can figure out where I stashed all my w4r3z3d Apple software and my good ol' copy of Copy II Plus...

You want ZD NET filters? You are an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979306)

linkage to a fairly lengthy ZD Net story on Amiga

When this is posted, I for one assume that the story will be a ZD Net story! How about that! Now, to ignore the story all you have to do is not take any of the links. Thats right, don't click on the colored text. No! Don't do it! Damn..did it again. Now you will just have to whine for Rob to make a filter since you lack self control and intelligence. Idiots

Recommended URL on Amiga kernel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979307)

Can anyone recommend a URL for a good webpage which might explain the origins of the Amiga kernel and it's relation to *nix?

Enough ZD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979308)

Aren't there other sources of new besides ZDNet? Has slashdot
just become a bulletin board for these jokers, Rob?

This is not news. It's old hat. The Amiga may or may not make
a comeback, but ZDNet is not the place to get reliable, timely
information about that or much else. For Amiga news, how about
stories and links to Amiga news sites. I know of several...

Slashdotting ZDNet just gives the mofus more advetising revenue
based on hits. From the looks of things here lately, Rob must be
getting a cut.

Slashdot sucks, Rob is an idiot .....

Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979309)

ALL of that in a low-cost, extensible, modular little box. You need mucho dinero to get ALL of those features/cards on a PC or a Mac. Plus, you'd likely run out of expansion slots. A revived Amiga will allow people (nerds/geeks and Carl Consumer) to have a decent computer on the level of high-end PC's, at the price point of a low-end Crappard Bell. And don't tell me about the convergence cards (ex: ATI's All-In-Wonder line) because they fit the old adage exactly: a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. I'd like to have a new Amiga that can be easily and inexpensively tailored to suit all your needs. If had to do video editing in a pinch and started with nothing, I'd rather import an A5000 and Video Toaster than buy a PC or Mac. That's just me, but now I will be able to get a spiffy AmigaNG running an extremely stable RTOS with a (hopefully) Video Toaster 2 card, or some equivalent. Perfect for an amateur hobbist who can't afford all that expensive video hardware and software for PC's and Macs, and doesn't want to suffer getting it to work (more a PC problem). So, dear sir, for all those reasons and more, Amiga Inc./Gateway should bother. Of course, this puts them squarely in competition with Be and somewhat with Apple, so I wish them luck.

Anyone seen a pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979310)

68000 series cpu, failure, bankruptcy, attempts to
be reborn, failure again.

Can anyone say

Why bother?/Why avoid bothering,..?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979311)

point me to the common(non-nerd) computer that preemptively handles thread management,...??? that was my first real computer(second if you can count the C64) and still one of my favorite to use and manage. good strong !!no-bloat!!

power to the pupil

The Amiga just might make a comeback. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979312)

For those of you who think the Amiga is dead, check out this article.


If Amiga is still the computer of choice for NASA, then they are far from dead!

(It's too bad the Amiga marketing division probably will never figure out how to exploit this fact to their advantage!)

Future Amiga OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979313)

Although I am not an amiga fan, I have
read off the QNX ( a very good real-time OS )
that future versions of the Amiga OS will be based on QNX. With QNX, even the drivers are
considered seperate programs which implies an
extremely stable operating system.
See www.qnx.com for more info.

I think this could be a nice boost for
this system.

Enough ZD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979314)

fuck you

Ack! oops (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979315)

Same Eponymous Cowled Her, here.

I meant A4000 with the Video Toaster/Flyer.
stoopid me...

Point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979316)

Try this. [amiga.de] (Not really any info.)

You should really get the Amiga RKRM but dunno where you can find them on the web, I bought them.
Any1 can point him to some RKRM place?

So anybody wanna buy my old Amigas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979317)

A3000/16 with 6Mb RAM and Linux 2.0.33 on it.

A4000/40 with 16Mb RAM, a Cybervision 64, a SCSI board, CD-ROM, and an IDEK 17" monitor (that syncs down to NTSC)

Plus lots of other Amiga goodies.

I haven't touched them since I got my Linux Pentium box.

Make a reasonable offer.


So anybody wanna buy my old Amigas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979318)

I'll give you a hundred bucks for everything.

Page Layout/Vector Drawing for Linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979319)

Get these guys:

Soft-Logik [softlogik.com]

to port Pagestream to Linux!

Best DTP program ever written - and an Amiga program to boot!

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979320)

It is dead.Forget it. There is an end to everything.


So anybody wanna buy my old Amigas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979321)

Wow, I'd pay 10 times that.

If I had any money :(

Why bother?/Why avoid bothering,..?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979322)

The only reason you had "threads" on the amiga is that there was no memory protection, hence no real thread/process distinction.

Agreed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979323)

...while ZD can and has published trustworthy articles, the years of not getting it right on a regular basis don't make me want to automatically trust them for any information at all.

If there were a ZD filter, it would be enough for me to start using the filter system ASAP.

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979324)

The system that is most trusted by NASA can't be "dead". (http://www.amigaatlanta.org/AEcastro.html)

Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979325)

How do you know that you can actually get all of that ? Right now, the NG Amiga is total smoke and mirrors. No one (outside of the Amiga Inc/QNX guys) knows anything about it. Arent you putting a lot of faith into a company (Amiga Inc) that has a pretty poor track record ?

Enough ZD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979326)

Wassup dude?
Can't you manage to not click on links for ZD articles which don't interest you?
Does your OS force you to follow every link in here?
Can't you actually decide for yourself not to read an article?

Maybe you need to seriously consider getting away from computers - you obviously can't operate them!

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979327)

Yeah, but the NASA Space Shuttle's computers still use ferrite core memory nad programs must be loaded on reel-to-reel tape. Each astronaut carries an HP calculator that's more powerful than the on-board computer.

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979328)

most trusted


I owned an Amiga back in 89 and it was one damn fine machine. Incredible graphics, 4096 colors, stereo sound with 4 voices. It was incredible. For the time. 10 years ago.

Even though I grew to hate the guru meditation error, I enjoyed the machine. Speedball II was awesome, and in fact I might write a clone of it some day. I liked Word Perfect, and it was very nice to be able to download a program while doing my homework at the same time. Drip was an awesome game too. What a great machine, for 10 years ago.

But it's DEAD 0xDEADBEAF 0xCACAFECE. Get over it. If the "Amiga" makes a comeback, it will hardly have any relation to the original OS and hardware that I used 10 years ago. Commodore is bankrupt. They made a wonderful machine, but frankly, Windows 95 is as stable as an Amiga was back in the early 90's (barely) and multitasks just about as well, plus it runs on a 400 Mhz Intel (although the architecture of the chip sucks, the speed makes up for it). They are marketing a NAME not a machine.

Of course Linux is better (for me). It may not have all the useless frills Windows does, but hey, I don't play video games for a living, I code for a living.

So anybody wanna buy my old Amigas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979329)

You'd pay a GRAND? What are you NUTS?? Go to Ebay.

MOT Semi not a failure. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979330)

At the time of design the 68000 processor series was highly superior to intel's offerings and MOT was a more reliable company, at this point intel was a baby with inovations and didn't really have mainstream support. Most systems designed at this time used the MOT processors. Intel gained dominance through luck. If microsoft had choosen a different OS to buy and IBM hadn't just invested in intel, the IBM PC would be based of a MOT chip or IBM proprietary microprocesser and Microsoft would not be in a place of dominance, Apple would be using MOT's risc chip, Intel would be scraping by if not out of business, their would be no pc's just IBM branded and no cheap systems would exist. If this had happened part of the industry mainly the products IBM made would have been very fast but other segments such as video would not be as good. Overall the computer industry would have been better and more segment not allowing one company or platform to have over 30% of marketshare.

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979331)

I would debate the issue but if you seriously think that "Windows 95 is as stable as an Amiga was back in the early 90's (barely) and multitasks just about as well" then you are obviously clueless and have no idea what you're talking about.

MS competition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979332)

Now we have sound cards, 3D cards, and the idea is to offload everything from the CPU to some other processor

Umm actually, if you've been paying attention to Intel in the past few years, this is the exact opposite of what's going on (MMX, instead of a separate DSP chip; onboard random number generator, etc...)

wrong wrong wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979333)

newtek hasn't been making toasters for pc-based systems for serveral years. they just recently started selling the frame factory for pc's, wich is the toaster equivalent and will soon start selling a flyer equivalent. about a year ago they started selling aura, which is a toasterpaint for pc, and for several years have been selling lightwave for pc's, which was also part of the toaster software.

Amigas & Newtek (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979334)

Actually there WAS a version of it for the PC (never made it into production tho...) just like there was one for the Mac...

It plugged into the SCSI port, and involved a rather large box sitting under your desk that looked suspiciously like an A2000 with the name plate removed...

They abandoned the PC version because windoze kept crashing.

x86 Amiga?! GAH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979335)

it can not, wake up moron

Pull out your SAS/C compiler, compile dhrystone and run it, run it in linux on a 133mhz AMD 486 and you get???

4000 for amiga and 56000 for the amd box

Recommended URL on Amiga kernel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979336)

came from '83 cambridge etc...

I think they wanted a company to write it, it turned out shit, so they looked at the local uni , and they had a prototype taht was way cooler, so they took that, hired them, and remade it better in 4weeks and had it running. Those guys were truly the geeks of time, i mean , locking your self in a room for 4 weeks straight, wearing purple gowns and slippers and coding nonstop and not talking to a single soul, and then opening the door after that, and presto, you have a finished kernel, WOW man! Do we see that dedication today? no, netscape takes 12 months

x86 Amiga?! GAH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979337)

The reason it outperformed your 120Mhz intel is because of the OS it was running... it's a perception thing... (In reality, it takes a 50Mhz 68060 to comete with a pentium - and even then they were passed a long time ago..)

The Amiga OS is a thing of beauty - small, fast, efficient... and for graphics, not even Linux (X is pretty bloated) can touch it... (although I still love Linux - no flames please :o)

Amiga Comeback (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979338)

The schedule has slipped a bit. Note, though, that GNU has been on the Amiga for years - check out www.ninemoons.com [ninemoons.com]

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979339)

Windows 95 is as stable as an Amiga was back in the early 90's (barely) and multitasks just about as well

Oh bullshit!

The Amiga was a fucking AWESOME machine, but it was NOT stable. I could easily get it to crash once a day buy running multiple programs. The 68000 processor (one of which I'm working on right now as we speak - or should be..) doesn't have protected mode, which means that one program can trash another if a pointer is pointing off to lala land which isn't too uncommon to do as a mistake.

To call the Amiga vastly superior in terms of stability in comparison to Windows 95 is quite an overstatement. Windows 95, just like the Amiga, is fairly stable. It's moderately stable. Windows 3.1 was not stable at all. It's ludicrous to think that the Amiga was perfect, because it wasn't, it was merely vastly superior to anything else in its market (i.e. consumer) than anything else at its time.

I'm no fan of MS, but I'm not going to misrepresent them. Their current offering of an OS is very poor considering this is 1999, they run (finally) in protected mode using an MMU (at least most of the time they run with an MMU - not all drivers do :P), and they have thousands of programmers working for them. To say that Windows 95 is as stable as WorkBench was in 1990 is no testament to their ability to produce anything decent. Microsoft, quite simply, sucks. And I say this without any bias whatsoever. NT is crap too, but it wouldn't be if the programers that built it weren't so fucking incompetent. It's a half way decent (and half way bad) design for an OS.

then you are obviously clueless and have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh golly, gee whiz! Your intellectual wit just mauled me there! I certainly can't hold my own in a discussion here! What the fuck, I only work for Motorola, what the Hell could I possibly know about it?? Gee, I suppose you're right, the Amiga is still the best of the best, and MS will never out do it no matter how many decades pass!

Hey, welcome to cold hard objective reality. What should be isn't necessarily what is.

Amiga '68 Comeback Special (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979340)

Wasn't Elvis worth more dead than alive?

Quick! Run out and get a velvet painting then!

The only value that an old Amiga has is antique and novelty value. Invest in an index fund instead, you'll probably get more return on your investment. Of course, the market is (probably) going to crash in 5 years, but antiques are just as worthless as stock during economic troubles.

I still dump money in, whatever happens, the market better recover in 30 years or I'll be pissed.

Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979341)

multitasking OSes, NTSC output, digitizers, paint, draw & 3D apps, and stereo sound for $300! you got tricked into putting $2600.00 worth of technology on your desk, the Amiga did it great for very little money!

windows=barry manilow; ce=backstreet boys? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979342)


Anyone seen a pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979343)

68000 series cpu

You think it's the CPU'S fault?

the reason the x86 is a success is big old gorilla IBM chose it, because it was CHEAPER than the 68000, and then gorilla IBM got in trouble with the DOJ and farmed out work to their front^H^H^H^H^H partner MICROSOFT which IBM made, not Bill Gates. When IBM lost control of the PC market (PS2) it was Intel and Microsoft calling the shots because people wanted "compatibility". Try running a 4 year old program on Windows 98 now, me thinks this may be a long term mistake, but.. Anyhow.

The x86 is garbage. Don't believe me? Program in ASSEMBLY on it. I'd rather shave my balls with a straight edge while on an Amtrack train travelling 80 MPH than work with an x86 again. To call it painful is a gross understatement.

Intel has 1 (count them) ONE product that keeps them afloat and making tons of money, the x86 family of processors. The i960 (they called *that* a DSP) sucked, the i860 sucked, and everyting else they made sucked or died on its own. Name some other products they make. Motorola is HUGE compared to Intel. Want to make bets as to who will survive longer? Motorola is huge in pagers, huge in cell phones, and huge in Cable Modems. Intel can't even define the USB standard well enough to put IP over it, I know, I've been waiting for the fucking spec for over 18 months now. If AMD overtakes them, they are doomed.

Don't blame Motorola for this mess, blame IBM. I do.

The Amiga just might make a comeback. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979344)

That was an eye-opening article. Sooner or later they will be replaced and thrown in the trash though. Maybe they belong on the Smithsonian!

MS competition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979345)

No, actually, the industry is moving more and more to offloading work from the CPU to peripheral devices. Intel doesn't like that. Intel wants to sell more CPU's, which is hard to do when people can upgrade their video card and suddenly have no use for a more powerful processor (well, this is a simplification, but that's the gist of it). So Intel is pushing hard to get people to pull workload back from the peripherals and onto the central processor again. It's not a good technical solution, it's entirely a marketing decision. Thusfar it's been ineffective; the industry has continued moving processing away from the central processor. Fortunately for Intel and AMD there are still some processing requirements which are best done on the CPU. Also, doing everything on the CPU makes the software easier to develop, which is a major consideration for some development companies.

Marketshare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979346)

Frankly, you cannot buy a computer today (PC or otherwise) with the knowledge that it will still be around ten years down the line. The PC of today is a very different beast from the PC of 1989. Just about the only thing that hasn't changed is x86 binary backwards compatability. The IO system has been been patchily replaced over time, the memory and IO busses have been completely reworked, and the software is completely different (and largely the newer OS's aren't even backwards compatible with 1989 software)!

The wise thing to do is to look for the best system for your needs (hardware and software) and your budget, and buy that whether it's a PC, a Mac, a SPARC, an Alpha, an Amiga, or whatever. Three years later you will not be able to upgrade it to use newer processors, memory, or peripherals without also replacing most of the system, and you may not even be able to run the newer OS's on it. So worrying about whether or not the company that made it will still be around ten years hence is kind of pointless.

-- Guges --

Could you answer a question for me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979347)

This is a different person with a serious question, and since you mentioned MMU's and memory protection, could you explain how it works? I understand a little about OS-level memory protection, but where does a hardware MMU come in? Why is it necessary?

Anyone seen a pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979348)

Hey ! Don't knock on x86 assembler. Only real programmers can code it, it require a lot of memory and concentration to remember what each register is holding and which ones can be used to store another variable. Programming in x86 is for REAL men !!! Not this girlie C++ stuff ! Everybody forgot that assembler is still way faster than the bloated code any C compiler does...

I used to have A600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979349)

hehehe, point well made..

Why bother? Why PAY? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979350)

Umm excuse me? Low cost? Doesn't an A4000 still
sell at about $4000? You can get one hell of a lot more PC for $4000.

Enough ZD - use Junkbuster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979351)

Go download Junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com) and stop bitching already.

I am keeping count... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979352)

And it is the 295th time. ;)

You're missing the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979353)

C compilers do not produce bloated code. They compile exactly what you tell them to. Furthermore, C has no runtime presence whatsoever (unlike Basic, Pascal, C++, Java, COBOL, Lisp...)

Anyone seen a pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979354)

That's ok. You can keep your x86 asm. ;-)

I haven't touched anything other than Z80 asm. And I liked it because it was simple, neat. x86 is ooooogly.

Could you answer a question for me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979355)

Writing in read-only memory (or outside your process's memory space) causes a hardware interrupt. The OS complains (core dump, GPF, etc). That's protected mode in a nutshell, and it has to be implemented in hardware.

Windows 95/NT uses this model (though not effectively; drivers are given too much freedom), as does Linux, and any other modern OS.

MacOS does _not_ employ hardware-level memory protection (some say it's not necessary, see MacKido's bullshit rants). In that respect, MacOS is like DOS, Windows 3 or Minix (all of which were designed for bullshit processors like the 8088).

Recommended URL on Amiga kernel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1979356)

Ok, schmuck!

Using a computer isn't about being smart you stupid geek! I'm happy to do a simple click instead of writing a lengthy command. But sometimes you can't accomplish everything with a click and then you have to write that command. But to remember a few commands has *nothing* to do with being smart. Do some advanced algebra or something to determine your real mental capabilities.

Amigas (1)

Ranger Rick (197) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979391)

I went to an amiga convention in St. Louis a couple of days ago. I love the old machines, but it seems like the wind has been let out of everyone's sails.

One of the big things that seems to keep the Amiga alive is the video toaster/flyer. It's great for budget editing, and even more, still. Of course, Newtek told us that they're open-sourcing the flyer software (cool!). The thing is, they've got a new PC capture card/software combo. It isn't a toaster yet, but the guy we talked to (the east coast sales rep) called Amiga a "dead, well... comatose" platform, and then all but said their new hardware is going to be the toaster for PC. He pretty much hinted that the hardware does stuff the software doesn't yet, and with a software upgrade you've got a full uncompressed film quality flyer on your hands.

Bye-bye Amiga. :(

cassette tape storage (1)

Bill Currie (487) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979392)

Actually, I have (at home) a SCSI tape unit that takes standard audio cassettes! The only reson I don't use is the only scsi card I have is VLB and the VLB slot in my computer is taken by my video card (et4k). When I get some more memory (RSN) I'll be able to get my second 486 going and hopefully use that tape drive. Hmmm, wonder what its capacity is....

MS competition! (1)

Enry (630) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979393)

Obv. this proves that MS can't have a monopoly.

Seriously, I never owned an Amiga, but was impressed with the way it had separate processors for everything that went on. Back then, the CPU on an x86 machine did all the work. Now we have sound cards, 3D cards, and the idea is to offload everything from the CPU to some other processor. The Amiga did have an influence on today's technology.

Apple ][ Comeback? (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979394)

Posted by The Incredible Mr. Limpett:

Yeah! I can play a mean game of Karateka...I think I still have that 5 1/4 floppy here somewhere.

What about the TI99/4A in all it's brushed stainless steel glory. That was actually the first one I owned. I know it wasn't the best, but I must've had a hundred cassette tapes with my little basic programs on there. hahaha

Let's bring back cassette tape storage!

"Wars, conflict, it's all business. One murder makes a
villain. Millions a hero. Numbers sanctify."

Recommended URL on Amiga kernel? (1)

Matts (1628) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979399)

There was once a long article in Byte on Exec, however their web archive doesn't go back far enough. Exec is a simple message passing kernel that internally uses exec lists as a common data structure. Unfortunately it relies a lot on a globally shared memory system (i.e. no memory protection) - hence the need for a completely new kernel.

I used to have A600 (1)

Matts (1628) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979400)

Yes. It's true - the A600 is a dead machine. Not upgradable. However other Amiga's are very much alive and well, some of them are even running Linux.

You don't seem to understand. Noone is talking about reviving the A600, or even OS3.1. This is something modern and new.

Why bother? Why not? (1)

bobalu (1921) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979402)

Well, what's the point in Apple? What's the point in Linux? It's another option. Once upon a time you could create innovative computers, now the best we can do is Apple's new colors. The good thing about the net (and Linux) is our tasks don't require a Wintel box. If hardware engineers could get back to playing with some interesting architectures it would be good for computing in general. I think they should just run BeOS or Linux on it this time instead of doing another OS.

Just my $0.02.

What are you talking about? (1)

Ken (3185) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979403)

Without ZD Net, Slashdot wouldn't have any news. ;)

Why bother? (1)

Ken (3185) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979404)

Because it gives us another choice, which is a good thing. Whether or not they'll succeed is the real question. And why would they use Intel chips is another...

x86 Amiga?! GAH! (1)

Mickey Jameson (3209) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979405)

Hell no. An x86 based Amiga would surely put the last nail in the coffin. Even if it's not going to have Motorola inside (god bless them 680x0's!) it sure as hell better not have Intel. Hell, my 14mhz 68020 easily outperformed my 120mhz Intel...

Amigas & Newtek (1)

Mickey Jameson (3209) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979406)

Newtek has been making the Video Toaster for PC-based systems for several years now. They started doing so as soon as they realized that their Amiga-based product lines were not going to succeed if the Amiga was going to die.
Or in the immortal words of the original Amiga developers, "We made Amiga. They(commodore) fucked it up." (found in 1.2 ROMs with some funky keystroke combo upon startup)

Karateka (upside down) (1)

Mickey Jameson (3209) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979407)

Put the original disk if you have it (heh, yeah right) in the drive upside down, then boot. The entire game will play upside down. Of course, the copy of the game I once had, many moons ago, was distributed as a two-sided game, complete with the upside down version cracked with the upside down version of the cracked message from the first side. 'twas cool. br0derbund used to be cool. whatever happened to them?

Amiga '68 Comeback Special (1)

Squid (3420) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979408)

The day before Commodore went out of business, you could get an A1200 for $349 and an A4000 for $1899.

The day after they went out of business, those prices (I witnessed this personally) went up to $549 and $2499 respectively.

Wasn't Elvis worth more dead than alive?

Why bother? (1)

Squid (3420) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979409)

A couple things the Amiga has always offered and will probably continue to offer:

- Nowhere is it written that every OS wants to be UNIX when it grows up - the Amiga is not UNIX and thus brings a fresh perspective to OS design, while remaining robust enough that UNIX apps can be ported to it.
- The GUI is integrated the way a GUI should be - preferences are basically systemwide, not merely toolkit-wide or API-wide. GUI and Shell are given equal billing and don't operate in separate universes. ARexx provides a platform-wide scripting mechanism that lets applications talk to each other. And on and on.
- The Amiga speaks NTSC and PAL, and the proposed next-generation Amigas will speak HDTV. There is a real need in the home computer AND the video pro market for machines that consider television as a native language - allowing software to manipulate video whether the software was designed to or not (like using Workbench to genlock!).

The Amiga has less than 0.1% market share right now, and I don't really see the classic Amiga line making a noticeable comeback - nor do I have convincing reason to believe the current batch of promises any more than the last 173 we've been given - but there really is a place for the Amiga, or some descendant of its spirit (and I don't mean Be, which seems to become more like a closed-source UNIX with each successive release).

it'll use NTO (1)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979411)

amiga will use QNX Neutrino kernel, according to NTO it works on arm/strong arm/x86/ppc, just check http://www.qnx.com there's an "old" press release about amiga and QSSL

News??? (1)

Shrubbman (3807) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979412)

What's so big about this? The current plan has been running smoothly and on track for about a year now (actually, I think it's exactly one year to-the-day the plan was originally announced to the public). The Amiga IS coming, and this time for real.

Why bother? (1)

arielb (5604) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979415)

If BeOS is being compared to a closed source UNIX then I guess Irix is the only candidate I can think of. Good enough for me-I hope SGI would consider BeOS instead of NT on their new visual workstations since they're not porting Irix to Intel.

Karateka (upside down) (1)

arielb (5604) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979416)

They're right here
They sell stuff I'm sure some linux users will appreciate :)

Future Amiga OS & QNX (1)

Mr. Shadow (6994) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979418)

Last night I saw a QNX demonstration on a P133 notebook with 48 megs of ram.....283 jobs running at the same time and the guy pulls the hard drive out. It kept running! Most amazing thing I've EVER seen. I've never had an Amiga but if the QNX/Amiga OS is even half as fast and stable as QNX 4.25, I'm going to be first in line to buy one. I just hope they're cheaper than QNX :^)

Amiga Comeback (1)

Root Moose (8784) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979419)

I have it on good authority that QNX (http://www.qnx.com) is being used as the underlying OS for the "new" Amiga workbench. Not sure if this is old news for this audience.

It was supposed to be coming soon (1st Q) as a beta but I guess that has slipped. I thought their schedule was way too aggressive when I heard about it.

This would be a double win - get all the kewel Amiga stuff ported to Intel and port more of the OSS/GNU stuff to Amiga.

I like it! (if it happens)

Future Amiga OS (1)

Root Moose (8784) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979420)

yep, stable, strong, and fast.

It uses a real microkernel. It's small too: 4kb

Everything else loads as a daemon-like module. The OS itself is message passing based.

Kewel stuff.

Page Layout/Vector Drawing for Linux! (1)

jgalun (8930) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979421)

Wasn't Pagestream for the Atari first (not the Amiga)? Or am I confusing it with something else?

Jim Collas and the new Amiga, Inc (1)

MrT (9608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979424)

This is good news indeed. It seemed as though the only person in the Old Regime (how many Old Regimes have there been so far?) who really gave a shit was Petro T. At last he is in good company. All the Amiga has ever really needed to succeed is dedicated and visionary leadership. It sounds like now we have a chance.

Amigas & Newtek - The PC Toaster (1)

MrT (9608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979425)


Oh that's got to be the funniest thing I've heard all week (OK, so it is only Tuesday). "...Looked suspiciously like an A2000 with the name plate removed" ... BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HA

NO MORE ZDNET - agreed! (1)

MrT (9608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979426)

"Hear hear" as they say in Parliament.

If people want to know what ZD thinks they can go there and find out for themselves. As much as I love discussing Amigas, I don't think this article needed to be posted. Slashdot readers already know the score, Amiga users certainly do, and I don't care what ZDNet thinks about any of it.

As far as general news stories go, they are usually reported in 20-30 different sites on the web and you can often get good info straight from the source or other involved party. WE DON'T NEED ZD NEWS ON SLASHDOT.

Why bother? (1)

Mongolito404 (10752) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979428)

Don't know, but what couldn't the Amiga offer today?
Maybe the Amiga could offer a good standard for all those device (not like MS did with software)
I remember reading in a french linux magazine, that new Amiga-OS or something will be made by QNX... That's a good point, maybe he will be POSIX?
Anyway, Amiga was great and i can't be bad for us if it comeback

The Amiga just might make a comeback. (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979429)

The Amiga is _not_ the computer of choice for NASA. Somebody at Hanger AE likes Amigas and uses them for local processing and displays, that's fine.

Most NASA desktop systems are IBM PC clones running some variety of Windows. There are some Macintoshs, though they seem to be slowly fading away. Some people have UNIX workstations.

For data acquisition, processing and display, many different types of systems are in use. But the trend in new systems seems to be towards IBM PC compatible systems, unless the requirements justify a more capable and expensive system. Many projects don't have the budget to buy expensive VME systems or UNIX workstations.

NASA's current approach is "faster, cheaper, better" with the emphasis on cheaper. COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) is the magic word.

Taka a look at http://www.sewp.nasa.gov if you are interested in what NASA is buying these days. Not a single mention of the Amiga.

I used to have A600 (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979430)

The only correct statement is that the computers are loaded from mag tape. The current computers don't use ferrite core memory. They may be slow by modern standards, but they are certainly much faster than any HP calculator. They don't blue screen or generate guru meditation errors (obligatory amiga content).

What? (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979431)

You act as if Intel was unheard of until IBM came around. Acutally, the very first personal computers (Altair, etc.) were Intel 8080-based.

The IBM PC was just a "16-bit" version of your average CP/M machine in it's day. Just substitute the 8088 for the 8080, and substitute a clone OS (MS-DOS) for CP/M.

The reason the IBM succeeded was that it solved the lack-of-standardization mess for floppy drives, video devices, tapes, etc that existed in the CP/M world. Plus, with up to 640K RAM, it could take 10 times the amount of memory as an 8080-based system.

Early Sun machines used the 68K, as did some IBM machines, but those were big $$$.

Anyone seen a pattern (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979432)

If you've ever seen the "Revenge of the Nerds" PBS documentary, there's an interesting part:

When IBM broached Microsoft to write PC-DOS, they actually thought MS owned CP/M, because they'd only seen CP/M running on an Apple II with a Microsoft 8080 board inside. (But that's actually another story...)

Anyway, the real CP/M guy was too drunk or something, so MS ended up with the DOS contract. They took one look at the specs for the IBM PC and realized that it could be cloned by other manufactures. (IBMs only property was the 4K BIOS, which had open specifications.) They even called up Intel to conspire in this plan.

So, Microsoft brokered a deal where they got paid only $50,000 for MS-DOS 1.0, but they could re-sell it anywhere they wanted. So, the clone market was born even before the first PC was manufactured.

I guess we can draw the conculsion that IBM was either stupid, didn't care if their computer was cloned, or didn't think PCs were going to amount to anything. If anything, the PS2/OS2 initiatives were an attempt to capture market control from Intel and Microsoft that IBM never had anyways.


Comeback? (1)

bog (12897) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979435)

So after you discover that evolution sort of has left you behind, do you think you have a chance of making a comeback? Maybe marketing?

Why bother? (1)

B-Man (18157) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979444)

Really, what's the point? When the Amiga was introduced, it did a lot of things PC's and Mac's couldn't. Nowadays, though, multitasking OSes, NTSC output, digitizing cards, paint, draw & 3D apps, and stereo sound are standard or easily available on any PC. What could the Amiga possibly offer today that can't be duplicated on the computers already on our desks?

Rob Don't you read??? (1)

Spazm[nm] (18774) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979445)

We need to have a seperate place for ZD Net's corporate asskissing articles... that way we can ignore them :0


dawg (18967) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979447)

Why are there more posts from ZDNet than normal all of a sudden? We KNOW that they are a crappy news source! So maybe they're funny because they're so bad, but this isn't the type of news I'd like from Slashdot. By the way Rob, love the new site. -n

Jim Collas and the new Amiga, Inc (1)

Trilobyte (19074) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979448)

I saw Jim Collas's speech at the Amiga99 convention, and had the
pleasure of speaking to him at the party on Saturday. He is truly
a man with a vision, and if anyone can turn their new hardware into
something deserving of the Amiga name, it is he. He understands what
the Amiga meant to people when it was introduced, and how it has
managed to stay with so many people til today.

He believes that there is a place in today's market for non-PC, non-
Windows computers. I believe that, too. This man stepped down from his
position as Senior Vice President at Gateway to become President of
Amiga, Inc. That takes balls. That takes vision. I for one know that
he really is going to work at this -- this is no half-hearted attempt
like what the Amiga has seen over the past 5 years. This is genuine.
There will be new Amigas for enthusiasts (read: nerds) and for end-users.
Jim Collas is not making this stuff up. He really feels strongly about
this. I believe it will happen. Now, whether or not these machines will
succeed is a question that cannot be answered. I believe that there is a
place for them in today's computer market. Other people do too. Gateway
does. Ted Waitt, president of Gateway, is excited about this.

Yeah. So. This isn't just hogwash hype. They're really working on this
finally. No more B.S.

Amigas & Newtek (1)

Trilobyte (19074) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979449)

Uhmmm... what? Point me to an URL to Video Toaster/Flyer hardware for the PC.

AFAIK, there's no such thing, because PCs suck, and can't do anything
cool and innovative like that. >;)

Amiga as Set-Top Box. Yawn. (1)

Cowards Anonymous (24060) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979456)

I'd certainly hesitate to call it an Amiga if it's just some black box on top of a TV. Those can still be found. Try looking on ebay. [ebay.com]

The beauty of the Amiga was how simple and stable it was to go in and fuss with the guts. The user had a high degree of control over the OS, and the hardware had handy features that still aren't available today (like splitting the screen between multiple resolutions).

RTG and RTS were excellent architectures that still aren't well matched in the mainstream world.

The OS had hooks all over the place, it was incredibly straightforward to alter aspects of behavior with legal, sanctioned hooks. This kind of flexibility is only paralleled (badly) by the X model.

A set-top box, without the AmigaOS, isn't exactly something I'd be interested in calling an Amiga, or paying money for.

Bring out one of them PPC based desktops, though, and I'll plunk down cold hard cash.

Marketshare? (1)

oakley (25957) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979461)

Most likely the Amiga will never come close to the number of sold PCs. But how big marketshare does a computer company really need in order to survive today? Is 5% enough, or does it take more?

The PC is not really my dream computer. I would gladly buy a niche computer, if only I know that it will survive for at least some years ahead. (oh, I don't know if the Amiga is intented to be a niche computer or not...)

Debian (1)

sklib (26440) | more than 15 years ago | (#1979464)

Debian already runs on amigas, so apparently getting a good OS wouldn't be a problem if Amigas came back.
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