Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Mozilla's Sunbird Reviewed

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the right-on-schedule dept.

Mozilla 208

comforteagle writes "Mozilla Sunbird is the latest stand-alone application from the Mozilla foundation that follows in the footsteps of now revered browser Firefox and email client Thunderbird. OSDir reviews their first public release, version 0.2. Screenshots included."

cancel ×

208 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

It's 0.2, not 2.0. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157146)

Just thought you might like to know, editors. And authors.

Correction -- Version 0.2 (5, Informative)

sessamoid (165542) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157148)

It's not "2.0". It's "0.2". Way before 1.0.

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (-1, Troll)

apikoros (774290) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157222)

And if history is any indicator of the future, it should reach Ver. 1.0 in 2015!

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (4, Insightful)

ScottGant (642590) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157323)

The original submitter of the news also should of said what the fricken thing was...instead of just providing a link. Just say what it is in the piece so people that are interested in what it is can go there, those that don't need/care don't have to follow the link...and contribute to the slashdotting effect...

Journalism 101

OH, and BTW... (5, Informative)

ScottGant (642590) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157332)

It's a calendar application

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (0)

goldmeer (65554) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157366)

The original submitter of the news also should of said what the fricken thing was...instead of just providing a link. Just say what it is in the piece so people that are interested in what it is can go there, those that don't need/care don't have to follow the link...and contribute to the slashdotting effect...
ScottGant (642590) [slashdot.org] should have said what the fricken thing was...instead of just complaining about the original submitter of the news just providing a link. So people that are interested in what it is can go there, those that don't need/care don't have to follow the link...and contribute to the slashdotting effect... Like I just did!

FYI: Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation.

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (1)

ScottGant (642590) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157376)

goldmeer (65554) should have read the fricken reply I had 2 minutes after I made the post instead of jumping down someone's throat because he thought he caught them at something.

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (1)

goldmeer (65554) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157555)

You sir are 100% correct! What do you think are you doing posting a factual post?

(I like the word fricken, BTW.)

It's the weekend, laugh a little. With me or at me, it dosen't matter much.

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157386)

You mean like he did 7 minutes before your post [slashdot.org] ?

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157558)

He replied 7 minutes AFTER the post saying what it was.

Any way you cut it he shouldn't have stuck his nose in it.

Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157557)

also should of said

should have. But otherwise I absolutely agree.

Brain rot! (1, Redundant)

soyuz_2 (810631) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157150)

Pretty colors [slashdot.org]

FP (3, Insightful)

sm8000 (780163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157151)

"as of the moment Sunbird does not integrate with Thunderbird or Firefox." Sometimes this isn't always a bad thing, you know?

Actually... (4, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157168)

..for a Calendar program, it is. However, what you need is a high-level exchange format. Which is slightly differnt than the "deep system call" integration of Outlook/IE/Windows.

Kjella

Re:Actually... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157372)

Who knows what you mean by "deep system call" ... but the Mozilla.org plan is to seperate out the backend so that you can run Firefox, Thunderbird, and Sunbird without loading massive amounts of duplicate code into memory.

Mozilla has tons of infrastructure technology, but right now they are copy-pasting it into every application.

Re:FP (4, Informative)

DarkSarin (651985) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157219)

That may be true, but I remember not too long ago having trouble getting T-bird to open links in firefox if I clicked on them, and firefox wouldn't open mailto links.

That said, there is also a calendar plugin for both of these programs that can be made to use the sunbird calendar (all use the same file format, and you simply point them to the same file). A bit more work, yes, but ultimately useful.

I suspect that now is the time to speak up, and they will be able to fix the problems before a 1.0 release occurs.

Re:FP (1)

ESqVIP (782999) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157324)

The calendar extension is Sunbird's predecessor. Though it is not bad, Sunbird has a nicer look (I wish I could say more, especially if it fixed the silly interface bugs from the extension, if only Sunbird didn't go into an infinite loop here when starting).

But, anyway, what matters is that Sunbird is the next step, and it's more recommended than the calendar.

Re:FP (1)

jrexilius (520067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157402)

offtopic slightly, but how did you fix that, my friend is having same problem cant figure it out..

Re:FP (1)

Soul-Burn666 (574119) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157512)

Set FFox and TBird as the default Browser and MailProgram respectivly, and it should work.

Re:FP (1)

jrexilius (520067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157562)

This is on a RedHat 9 desktop, excuse my ignorance of desktop stuff, is that the same solution?

Re:FP (3, Informative)

Bungopolis (763083) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157580)

In a Linux system you'll need to edit your prefs.js directly at ~/.thunderbird/default.###/prefs.js

Simply add the line:

user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox");

or the path to your desired browser.

Re:FP (2, Interesting)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157415)

I agree. I'm trying it now because I wanted a stand alone calendar app. I may not necessarily have Firefox or Thunderbird open at the time, so this is a nice way to cut down bloat. That being said, 0.2 has some serious resource allocation problems, making it run very, very slowly at times. I'm looking forward to future, more complete versions.

It is what IT is. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157159)

It is what IT is.

Re:It is what IT is. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157256)

It is what IT is.

But is it what is it?

Re:It is what IT is. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157260)

It is, as IT was.

Re:It is what IT is. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157334)

That depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (5, Insightful)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157160)

It seems that if Mozilla were at this stage in its development, say 5 years ago, they would probably be converging into one application. Perhaps Mozilla has decided to learn from the mistakes of Windows/IE integration. With the recent wired article where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox, I would say this move to less integration is definatly a smart one.

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (5, Insightful)

soyuz_2 (810631) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157176)

where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox

Anyone making software would be nuts not to try the competitors product. I mean, surely Audi engineers try BMW's to see what they have to compete against, right?

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (1)

EpsCylonB (307640) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157196)

I waiting for the time when mozilla decide to integrate firefox, thunderbird and sun bird into one application.

Oh wait...

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (5, Insightful)

mantera (685223) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157226)

"With the recent wired article where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox"... I read his interview and it did not indicate that he was using it in any more capacity than testing it. He definitely did not say he was using it for browsing or relying on it. In fact, he said it too had security issues. So, although I'm typing this on firefox right now, let's not get excessively enthausiastic. Microsoft had always had a practice of seeing what's out there, competitors and already implemented solutions, that him having firefox on his computer means very little. He probably has every other browser out there too.

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (1)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157281)

Or maybe Mozilla has decided to learn from the mistakes of Mozilla. Or the mistakes of Netscape Communicator. Once NS3 died out and until Firefox came along the Netscape browser series was just about the archetypical example of detrimental "integration"...

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. [OT] (-1, Offtopic)

soyuz_2 (810631) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157292)

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now ... kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." -- Numbers 31:1-18 (NIV)

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. -- I Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. [OT] (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157393)

Is this an advert for or against the bible?
'Cos if it's for then you have me sold!

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (1)

leonmergen (807379) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157347)

With the recent wired article where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox

He never said he used Firefox as his browser, he merely said he had to install an update that morning. As a security head, I really am not suprised he has other browsers installed...

which planet are you from? (2, Informative)

alphan (774661) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157365)

they would probably be converging into one application.

Everthing actually comes from the mozilla suite which is ONE APPLICATION.

Sunbird is stand alone implementation of Mozilla Calendar (ext), similar to browser (Firefox), or email (Thunderbird)

Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (1)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157499)

I don't think so much it's a move away from integration, but just keeping the actual programs separate. Mozilla Suite was one huge application that had all these little bits and pieces of programs. They were integrated because they shared the same internal structures. However, this led to bloat when you had to waste memory for a program you weren't using. I think mozilla's new strategy is to make the programs totally independent, but work together in a more abstract sense. This is more difficult, but it leads to better and more stable products.

Now if only I could rely on copy and pasting to work on all my linux programs.

that's 0.2 not 2.0 (4, Interesting)

rokzy (687636) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157161)

I tried it, it was okay but crashed a bit. plus I couldn't get it to say that an event lasted from a certain time on one day until a certain time several days later.

if they make it so I can sync with my P900 that'd be a big plus.

Re:that's 0.2 not 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157259)

Maybe you checked the 'this event lasts all day button' by mistake? Otherwise, I can't see how you couldn't specify a starting and ending time on different days...

Re:that's 0.2 not 2.0 (1)

rokzy (687636) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157291)

when I tried 9am Sunday till 3pm Friday it made it 9am-3pm for each of Sunday-Friday which is not the same thing.

For those who don't want to RTFA (4, Informative)

Monx (742514) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157163)

It's a calendar application. That doesn't yet integrate with FireFox or Thunderbird. It's also at version 0.2, not 2.0.

Isn't the text at the top of this page supposed to be a summary?

Summaries (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157401)

Yes, they are *supposed* to be an accurate summarization of the story so people don't have to read the damned articles..

But.. time and time again, the summaries are either inaccurate or important facts are left out.. Seems to be getting worse

What's that name? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157170)

What ever happened to Sunfox??

Re:What's that name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157248)

They decided to use the name 'Foxbird Communicator XL' instead.

Re:What's that name? (1)

Cyberdork (788032) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157276)

Don't worry, the *bird name comes before the *fox name... they'll rename it in a few months.

Re:What's that name? (2, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157474)

It's waiting for the letter from Pontiac saying, "Dudes, wtf is with naming all your software after our cars?"

They'll probably rename it to Sunfire before moving on to Sunfox and I can't wait for the Mozilla standalone download manager: GTO.

Goatbird and Firegoat are really going to suck though.

KFG

Problems with remote calendars (3, Interesting)

manastungare (596862) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157171)

I've had trouble getting Sunbird to work with any Calendar but the default. Also, when downloading and publishing remote calendars, all I get is a blinking icon (of two rotating arrows), with no further progress. Is Sunbird *really* ready for the public yet? :)

Re:Problems with remote calendars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157231)

No, of course not, it's still Alpha - but my experience with Mozilla Alpha software has been good up to this point so I welcome the option to try it out even this early in its development.

Re:Problems with remote calendars (1)

manastungare (596862) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157240)

Exactly, which is why this comes as a disappointment! I've begun to trust Mozilla Alphas many times more than Microsoft's been-through-testing-and-found-OK software.

Re:Problems with remote calendars (1)

AlphaJoe (798014) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157275)

I've had trouble getting Sunbird to work with any Calendar but the default. Also, when downloading and publishing remote calendars, all I get is a blinking icon (of two rotating arrows), with no further progress. Is Sunbird *really* ready for the public yet? :)

Tada!!!!! For those who don't pay attention before downloading and installing...
At the moment Sunbird is in an experimental, though quite stable stage. We offer no release builds at the moment, only builds intended for testing and development purposes.

Re:Problems with remote calendars (2, Insightful)

dn15 (735502) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157327)

Is Sunbird *really* ready for the public yet? :)
No, which is why it is still at version 0.2. It is not being promoted to regular end-users, and few people outside of Slashdot and MozillaZine readers probably know it exists. It is good to have the application available for testing and bug-reporting purposes, but it is certainly not supposed to be used by the general public at this point.

Works great for me. (1)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157355)

I've had it working for quite some time now.

Site's slow (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157172)

Software: Review of Mozilla's Sunbird Stand-Alone Calendar Application
Posted Sep 03, 2004 - 06:58 AM
Printer friendly page Print this story Send this story to a friend Email this to a friend

by Gareth Russell

Mozilla Sunbird is the latest stand-alone application from the Mozilla foundation that follows in the footsteps of now revered browser Firefox and email client Thunderbird. Gareth reviews their first public release, version 0.2.

(screenshots)

Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation. It is based around the existing Mozilla Calendar component and is the latest in a string of standalone applications from the foundation, which are gradually replacing the current Mozilla suite of applications. The aim of the project is to create a standalone calendar for someone who uses either Mozilla Thunderbird or Firefox as their email client or browser. Sunbird hopes to offer a reduced footprint and performance enhancement over the original Calendar component. Sunbird is still in the early stages of development and is certainly experimental software with version 0.2 having been released recently. Nonetheless Sunbird is a promising application for those of you already using Thunderbird or Firefox.

A word of warning though, as of the moment Sunbird does not integrate with Thunderbird or Firefox. It is purely a standalone project, although this is one of the tasks to be solved in the near future.

The most striking difference between Sunbird and its Calendar counterpart is the theme and visual identity. Sunbird has its own logo, which is somewhat similar to Thunderbird's along with a slick visual style that removes a lot of the harshness found in the default Calendar component's theme. If you're running Windows XP then this theme integrates well with the rest of your system. At the moment there is still no option to change the theme if you do not like it, although this should be expected in future builds.

The user interface is essentially the same as the Calendar components, this entails the use of a three or four framed system. A main frame provides an overview of the day, week, several weeks or month, whilst several sub frames provide information about events scheduled and tasks still to be completed. It is a flexible system that allows you to collapse windows to get the style you want but by default it feels rather unwieldy when it is compared to the more simplistic calendar components found in Outlook or Evolution due to the large number of windows on display.

There are some improvements that could be made to the user interface to make it more accessible to new users. Some of the more useful features are only available from the title menus these should be more easily accessible through the toolbar. For example a "New Task" button for the toolbar would be a welcome addition, instead of having to enter the "File Menu" to access it. Currently upon first glance, a user is left wondering whether or not such a function is available and only the task frame alerts you to its presence. The included keyboard shortcuts are of great use and once remembered they can dramatically speed up use of the program. As of yet there is no ability to change the shortcuts or to set up your own, but this is something to be expected from future releases.

Coloured tagging for events would also improve the interface of the application. Currently you cannot assign colours to event categories as you would in say Microsoft Outlook. These allow you to get a better overview of your calendar, as it is easier to relate colours to specific types of events rather than reading all of the available text. Coloured tagging could make the application appear less cluttered because you'd be able to get an easier overview of what is happening in the different windows.

The ability to create and maintain different calendars for different purposes is a nice touch although it does exist in other applications, but it is easier to move between the different calendars in Sunbird. Keeping calendars separate can be very useful especially when you don't want to relay your family calendar to the rest of your work group across the calendar sharing webDAV server.

Although Sunbird is unable to communicate with a Microsoft Exchange server for calendar sharing, it does offer an interesting open alternative with its use of the webDAV server. The webDAV server allows users "to collaboratively edit and manage files on remote web servers." The calendar is hosted on the webDAV server and is simply accessed remotely with the use of Sunbird as a client. Since webDAV is able to be run from an Apache web server with the use of the module mod_dav, it allows for a fair degree of flexibility for work groups. Users will be able to use existing Apache web servers to host their calendars and will not need additional hardware, additionally they will be able to access it from anywhere that is connected to the Internet. It will certainly be interesting to see how this feature develops in future builds of Sunbird, as it could become a pure open alternative to an Exchange server.

On top of the webDAV server support Sunbird saves its files to Apple's open iCal standard which allows for a degree of interoperability between the two applications and platforms. As of yet there is no support for Outlook's closed standard but files can be imported into Sunbird once they've been exported from Outlook as an .ics file.

It must be seen then, that Sunbird is a promising application from the Mozilla Foundation. It is not a perfect application by any means but it has great scope for improvement alongside some already great features such as the webDAV server support. The real test for this application will be whether or not it is able to build upon its already solid foundation or whether it will only focus on quashing bugs to become a pure standalone version of Calendar. I heartily recommend that you give Sunbird a whirl if you already use Firefox or Thunderbird as it may just be what you were looking for.

Gareth Russell is a regular contributor to OSDir and a Student living in Rural Suffolk in England. Gareth has been a Linux and Open Source enthusiast since July 2001 when he discovered Linux, having started out on Mandrake Linux 7.2, Gareth eventually moved on from Mandrake when Red Hat 8 was released and has stayed with Red Hat ever since. Gareth is an administrator of FedoraForum.org an online forum for Fedora Core support. His other interests include gaming, rock music and politics. Gareth's Homepage can be found at www.garethrussell.com and Gareth can be contacted at gareth@fedoraforum.org

two things... (2, Insightful)

mantera (685223) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157193)


1) Open it up for extensions, the way firebird is. 2) until it can sync with mobile devices (palm, pocketpc.. etc), i won't be implementing it.

Innovation (3, Insightful)

Frankie70 (803801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157197)

Screenshots [osdir.com]

Looks identical to Outlook's Calendar, even menu option names etc.

OSS seems to be totally following the MS way, including very little innovation.

It's different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157369)

As a person who uses it daily, I can say that it is different. There may be some similarities to the menus, etc. but the actually calendar part does behave quite differently than outlook.

Re:Innovation (4, Interesting)

jrexilius (520067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157480)

I agree, however, certain applications have reached a sort of commoditized maturity and dont really benefit from further additions.

Not to say that calendars couldn't improve. Sunbird could do things like allow for RSS feeds from public calendar sites such as a theoretical ticketmaster or local band, theater, sports team, etc.

You do a pub/sub thing and when you look at your calendar you can filter through events or ideas and see events that you may be interested in and when they are. Why browse 5-10 different web sites when are trying to schedule a cookout or meeting with clients?

In fact I have been thinking about adding publish/subscribe type features to some of my company's products.

Re:Innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157570)

Sorry but Sunbirds interface doesnt look identical to outlook's.

Dyslexic Version 2.0 - Real Version 0.2 (-1, Redundant)

PetoskeyGuy (648788) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157208)

Let's get it straight.

Re:Dyslexic Version 2.0 - Real Version 0.2 (1)

heptapod (243146) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157370)

Actually that would be dyscalculia not dyslexia.

Thanks for playing.

Re:Dyslexic Version 2.0 - Real Version 0.2 (2, Informative)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157408)

Even when it involves mixing up numbers just the same as a string of characters, making it no different than dyslexia? No crappy calculations occured here to come up with this erroneous result, it was just a typo.

Wait.... (-1, Troll)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157252)

Judging from the screenshots, Sunbird is a complete 100% rip-off of Apple's iCal, (just a lot uglier!)

Honestly, sunbird offers no more, no less than iCal. It's like they're the same program. The ONLY thing I can see that sunbird offers over iCal is that it tells you the number of the week out of the year. That's it.

Not to mention that the UI is ugly as a sin.

Come on, Mozilla, why can't you innovate any more? The mozilla suite is a clone of netscape communicator. Firefox is a clone of netscape navigator. Thunderbird is netscape mail on steroids (basically a combo of Netscape Mail and Apple's mail.app). And now Sunbird is a direct iCal ripoff...

Re:Wait.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157266)

Hmm... One thing it offers me over iCal is that I can actually run it on my PC. Thats pretty big to me...

Thanks for your time though.

Re:Wait.... (1)

FuzzzyLogik (592766) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157341)

Agreed. I love iCal but this gives me the ability to view my calendars on my pc too or other people who don't have a mac to view my calendars on their pc's and subscribing to my calendars.. THAT will be useful for me for sure.

Re:Wait.... (2, Insightful)

kryptkpr (180196) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157283)

First paragraph of TFA:

"Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation"

There ain't no iCal on Win32 nor Linux.

And as far as mozilla ripping off netscape, I think you have it backwards.. netscape is built on top of mozilla.

Re:Wait.... (1)

hermi (809034) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157286)

yeah, and my pc is just a clone of an abacus [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Wait.... (5, Insightful)

FuzzzyLogik (592766) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157304)

good grief man... look at the version number on that.. 0.2 there's plenty of time for them to innovate, let them get the basics done first then watch as the new useful features roll out... sit back and chill.. if you have such a problem why not go help the development... it's really not THAT hard to write some javascript and such for all that.. i guess if you don't program it might be kind of hard but it's fairly easy to pickup if you tried... the thing i'm trying to say though is to provide your input, if it's not what you want, then why not go suggest features or what have you? bitching isn't going to help, you need to provide constructive criticism and possible advancements...

Exactly... (1)

dn15 (735502) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157363)

Parent is absolutely correct. Sunbird is very early in development and it is reasonable that any calendaring app would look like the rest when they are still just getting the most basic functionality in place. Watch future releases and I'm sure a few distinguishing features will appear.

Duh... (2, Interesting)

Mister Transistor (259842) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157309)

If there ever was a need for a "-1 Uninformed" mod this would be it.

You totally have your chickens and eggs backward.

Netscape comes from Mozilla, not the other way around. All of it's functionality is imported directly from the "development version", Mozilla. That's why now that we have a new stable Mozilla platform, lo and behold, Netscape 7.2 is announced!

As for the calendar app, it's a clone of Outlook's calendar page. With 100's of thousands of users already accustomed to using it's UI, there is a lot of sense into trying to make the user comfortable with a familiar look and feel. iCal is probably a similar clone of Outlook, hence the similarities.

Re:Duh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157398)

The OP said "Netscape Communicator" which was the name of version 4 suite.

Mozilla's feature set and UI was 100% decided by Netscape Inc/AOL product managers and the decsion really was to create pure clone of the older version's UI and featureset.

However, I would call Firefox more of an Internet Explorer clone ('tis smarter to clone a popular product than an unpopular one)

Re:Duh... (1)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157424)

As for the calendar app, it's a clone of Outlook's calendar page.

And before anybody bitches about Mozilla copying Microsoft in this regard, one needs only to take a look at Evolution.

It's version 0.2 (1)

Halcyon-X (217968) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157310)

Version 0.2 and you expect them to have the complete implementation of all planned 1.0 features? It's natural in an early version to have your application resemble what inspired it.

If they have the complete functionality of a completed application by version 0.2 I think they're doing pretty well...

Re:Wait.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157315)

Come on, Mozilla, why can't you innovate any more? The mozilla suite is a clone of netscape communicator.
That's because it is!

Firefox is a clone of netscape navigator.
have you tried the extensions?

Thunderbird is netscape mail on steroids (basically a combo of Netscape Mail and Apple's mail.app).
what part of steroids are not innovative? The filters? Or maybe the e-mail thread view?

And now Sunbird is a direct iCal ripoff...
it's also a version 0.2. so, perhaps it's just
starting out on solid ground.

Re:Wait.... (1)

poulbailey (231304) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157316)

> The mozilla suite is a clone of netscape communicator. Firefox is a clone of netscape navigator.

You have never used Mozilla or Firefox, have you?

the award for most ridiculous comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157319)

goes to...

"Firefox is a clone of netscape navigator."

Re:Wait.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157353)

The mozilla suite is a clone of netscape communicator. Firefox is a clone of netscape navigator. Yeah, well M$IE is a clone of Mosaic. At least the Mozilla people rewrote the browser code. M$ simply stole Mosaic code and built upon it. Kinda like what they did with the BSD networking stack.

Re:Wait.... (1)

igrp (732252) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157379)

Well, Mozilla is not Netscape, as you obviously know. But they are related (in the sense, that Firefox, Sunbird, etc. are the next iteration and not just merely single components of one big suite).

Mozilla grew out of Netscape's decision to release the Navigator source code in '98 or '99. I won't go so far as to say they share the same codebase but they they are related.
Hence, it's not really fair to call Firefox a clone.

Regarding the GUI, I must say that I agree with you, at least in part. It's neither the worst nor the best I've ever seen and I can see why people (especially those who are used to the OS X interface) would consider it sub-par. I hope that will change Sunbird becomes skin-able.

The one cal/time management application I personally liked the most was the original Palm Desktop (the one that came with the old Palm IIIs). One nicely designed, fast, relatively small application that just worked.

'Sunbird?' (4, Funny)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157254)

I dunno. I think it'll need at least three or four name changes before 1.0 gets released... :P

My $.2 (or is it $2.0?) (2, Funny)

KRzBZ (707148) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157282)

1) Release early Beta, numbered .2
2) Wait for overeager slashdot submitter to make typo, bumping version a factor of 1.8
3)???
4)Profit!

Obligatory anal-retentive criticism (1)

Gramie2 (411713) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157345)

Bumping version a factor of 10

Incrementing version a factor of 1.8

there are plugin versions also (2, Informative)

Artifex (18308) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157294)

The plugin versions work in Firefox and and Thunderbird. Yet they're totally separate from any install of Sunbird you may also have. So you pretty much need to choose one or the other, or risk forgetting some appointments because you have the wrong instance loaded. They can import across, but they don't just share one calendar file, which makes no sense to me.

Also, the biggest problem I have: there is no way to make the alarm trigger a selectable sound? There's a checkbox to "play a sound," but that's it, and if it actually does make a sound, I can't hear it across the room. Sadly, even the alarm clock in Windows XP's Plus pack beats this with a wet noodle. (Except, of course, when the alarm clock just fails to trigger at the time, which is whenever you need it most)

Re:there are plugin versions also (2, Informative)

FuzzzyLogik (592766) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157331)

I'll say it again... look at the version number guys... 0.2 that's FAR FAR FAR away from 1.0 release. like all typical mozilla products it isn't totally usable until it gets around the .5 to .7 releases.. then from there it becomes much more useful from there on out... give it time, provide constructive criticism and give feedback... bitching on here about it (i know you weren't really but others are) isn't going to help, i bet most of the developers aren't going to read the slashdot comments to look for improvements to their product... email one of the developers or join a mailing list or something and provide some feedback.. what do you like? what do you not like? how can you make it better? what features do you think should be in 1.0? can you help out by providing code? there's a lot you can do if you just put a little bit of time into it .. i personally want this project to succeed because i use iCal on my powerbook and the .cal files from iCal work in sunbird which for me would be great for checking things out on my pc when i need to. :-P give it a try and see if you can't help.

Re:there are plugin versions also (1)

Artifex (18308) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157487)

Well, I wasn't trying to complain so much as warn others will be racing to download it.

No, I don't program, so I won't be coding anything :)
I'd donate to Mozilla again, but I just quit my job and went majorly in debt for school. So... what can I do? :)

Re:there are plugin versions also (1)

jdonnis (115371) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157342)

Well, you could just place your calendarfile on a ftp or webdav server.

The main reason for me to use calendar/sunbird is so I have access to my private calendar from work and vice-versa.

Now all I really need more from calendar/sunbird is the ability to accept invitations and calendar bookings from Outlook as quite a lot of people at work use Outlook.

Damn that was quick! (3, Funny)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157313)

I just got .2 last night.. Already up to 2.0!

Sounds like someone was bored last night and couldn't sleep :)

Sincerely (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157318)

I greatly appreciate the effort of these guys in bringing us great software under the GPL. I personally use the browser and the mail client and recommend them whenever I can. I think I will try the calendar application too.

Somebody can tell me how do I filter this stories?

Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (4, Interesting)

amper (33785) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157346)

What we really need is a replacement for the amazing CS&T/Netscape/Steltor/Oracle "CorporateTime" (nee Calendar Server).

Woo hoo. WebDAV. Could I be any *less* excited? WebDAV calendars are not going to replace a *real* calendaring/scheduling system any time soon...

Unfortunately, even open-source project I've seen that has attempted to tackle this problem has very quickly fallen apart.

Please, somebody, take a look at Corporate Time or the older Netscape Calendar Server. *That's* what we need. An LDAP-integrated, replicable, multi-user calendaring/scheduling system with a web client that was pretty much the equal of the full client application and integrated quite nicely with the email client.

Netscape SuiteSpot is what made Netscape Communicator Pro make sense. If anyone out there in a development team would like it, I would be more than happy to provide a copy of my my old SuiteSpot CD for reference/testing purposes...

Re:Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (3, Informative)

amper (33785) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157395)

BTW, Netscape also wrote some fairly insightful white papers and such on what the requirement were for a successful C&S solution. Much of it is still available at:

http://wp.netscape.com/calendar/v3.5/

But someone needs to *run* these servers (1)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157417)

Is the party running the server going to be reliable and capable of handling load? It'll take a Google or a Yahoo adopting truly open calendaring to make this happen. As a stricly client-side app I agree this is useless.

Server-side bookmarking, calendaring, IMAP...where is my open standards serving company?

Re:But someone needs to *run* these servers (1)

rherbert (565206) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157568)

He doesn't want someone to run the calendar server for him. Yahoo! already has one, as long as using their web client is sufficient. He wants to run the calendar server himself.

Exchange Server? (2, Interesting)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157496)

In other words, it sounds like you're saying that Mozilla needs an equivalent of Exchange Server?

Re:Exchange Server? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10157524)

"Netscape SuiteSpot" was an equivalent of Exchange Server (although it sold poorly).

Anyway ... the only reason that Netscape 4 came in a "suite" was to move server licences. Mozilla cloned the client suite, but forgot the Corp Groupware rationale behind it.

Close, but I think I'll stick with Evolution (1)

Shayde (189538) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157371)

I don't quite get where they're going with this. I'll have to assume it's a simple pre-release, run from there.

I use Evolution for all things that folks would associate with Outlook. Contact management, calendaring, and email. It does all of these pretty well, and I'm a pretty heavy-duty email user - going from a curses based mail client to Evolution was a lot easier than I thought, and I haven't lost any functionality (and sure as nuts gained some).

Evolution's integrated calendar + contact management is functional, complete, and works -great- with WebDAV based calendar servers. 1.4.x does not have automatic publishing, but since Evolution uses ical format calendars by default, a simple 'scp foo.ics' up to the webdav server instantly publishes your calendar. (we use phpiCalendar for calendar sharing).

I applaud Mozilla's project, more ical based applications means wider acceptance of the standard, but for now I'll stick with Evolution.

Re:Close, but I think I'll stick with Evolution (2, Informative)

CdBee (742846) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157491)

Please bear in mind though, that until such a time as Evolution will either run on Windows or cleanly compile on CYGWIN, these Mozilla apps are the best OSS PIM app available to many users.

Re:Close, but I think I'll stick with Evolution (1)

rollthelosindice (635783) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157509)

If you are using `scp` to transfer the ics file to the server, you dont need/aren't using webDAV, you are just using a web server. webDAV entails directly writing the file to the server over HTTP.

Serving is the key (4, Insightful)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157377)

Its nice to see more standards compliant calendar browsers out there, but whats key is that server side solutions (Yahoo Calendar) adopt open standards so we can share calendar data, which to me is the entire point. To me this type of application is mostly about advertising when I am and am not available...so sharing with other calendaring clients is crucial.

Palm Pilot. (4, Insightful)

maeka (518272) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157389)

Wake me up when it can sync with my Palm.

Don't forget the extensions for Firefox/Tbird (2, Interesting)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157419)

Don't know if the full functionality is there, haven't tested it yet, but the Firefox extension seems to work quite well.

The Thunderbird extension is a different story, because the extension system does not seem to be in place. I followed the directions to go to tools -> options -> extensions button, and there is no extensions button. :(

A failing of Thunderbird 0.7.3, it seems, maybe it is in the nightlies, dunno.

All I can say is: If Sunbird follows the kick-ass nature of Firefox/Tbird, this seperate "suite" is going to be perfect, IMO.

Heck, Firefox fixed (read: got rid of) the find toolbar, and Thunderbird would be perfect if they added a "Sync" button to avoid the File -> offline -> download/sync -> press enter if setup, but remember it only is available if you've clicked on your PRIMARY ACCOUNT/Folders.

Arugh!
Yet more clicking and re-accessing the menu.

C'mon guys (and gals) I LIKE buttons that make life easier.

Heck, I like blinky lights and shiney objects, too!

OOOoooo!

Where was I?

NOT stand-alone. (2, Informative)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157434)

I'm not sure what these developers are talking about. It CAN install as an extension to either Firefox or Thunderbird, OR you can install it stand-alone. I'd link to the page, but update.mozilla.org seems to be down right now. I absolutely installed it yesterday as an extension to both Thunderbird and Firefox, and stand-alone. Unfortunately, you can install it these 3 ways, and each one is a separate database. ie: Accessing the calendar from Firefox will not show you the same data as when you access it via Thunderbird.

What type of journalism is this... (3, Insightful)

danheskett (178529) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157486)

...I know this might be undue but..

Not everyone knows what Sunbird is. I know from the article teaser above that it's from Mozilla, and it's like Firefox. So it's a browser, like firefox? Or an e-mal client like Thunderbird?

In the future, you may get better response by telling us exactly what it is being reviewed.

Sunbird's OK but kinda buggy (5, Interesting)

explorer (42481) | more than 9 years ago | (#10157490)

Sunbird's OK, I use it. But it's kinda buggy and limited. WebDAV is clunky and doesn't really work well. If you have dreams of publishing your departments calendars on a web server and scheduling group meetings (avoiding conflicts) like with Outlook/Exchange, forget it. It's really only useful for putting your own calendar up on a web server so you can schedule stuff from home, work, the road, etc.

And like I said, it's buggy. For example, I sucked in my old Outlook calendar in ical format using a converter, and it kinda puked on recurring appointments with exceptions. In fact, it appears that if you have a weekly meeting but you try to delete more than 5 or so of the individual recurrences, it starts forgetting about some of them! Pretty annoying. As a result, the old Outlook habit of setting up a weekly dept meeting, and then hitting delete on individual meetings that are cancelled doesn't work with Sunbird.

Still looking for a decent group calendaring app for UNIX users.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>