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UserLinux Releases First Beta

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the luserunix-also-available dept.

Debian 316

MohammedSameer writes "According to DesktopLinux, UserLinux has released their 1st beta CD, based on Debian. The project, led by the long-time open source advocate Bruce Perens, aims to provide businesses with freely available, high quality Linux operating systems accompanied by certifications, service, and support options intended to encourage productivity and security while reducing overall costs."

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316 comments

User vs. Business (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213630)

So, if it's oriented to Businesses and support-conscious people, why is it called *User* Linux? Wouldn't BusinessLinux be more appropriate?

Re:User vs. Business (5, Insightful)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213665)

It comes from user-supported, because anyone can participate in Debian, the development organization we base our system upon. So, if a user doesn't like something about the system, they have the ability to change it directly.

Bruce

Re:User vs. Business (4, Interesting)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213750)

How is that different than Fedora?

Re:User vs. Business (4, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213870)

IMO, fedora is way too Red Hat Corporation centric. RH management sets its governance. Any other partner is always going to be a second-class citizen. We can do better than that. Focusing development in a legal non-profit, Debian, with 10 years of history of successful work is better.

Bruce

BUT... (0, Flamebait)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213911)

But there are only 2 legit version of linux for corporate use, Suse and redhat.

Simply because they are the only linux distros with HBA drivers that can have it sit on a storage area network. Before you run any giant App, you need storage.

Re:BUT... (2, Insightful)

Mr. McGibby (41471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213994)

Simply because they are the only linux distros with HBA drivers

A lot of corporations don't even *use* SANs. Not every corporation needs em. Just because other distros lack a certain feature X doesn't mean that they're useless for corporations. That's just narrow minded thinking.

BTW, at my corporation, we use Gentoo because we know what we're doing and don't need or want the hand holding that RH and Suse provide. It's amazing! We're a corporation and we're successfully using a distro other than red hat and suse!

Re:BUT... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214038)

In this corporation we use Debian Stable for servers, because it's the only distro that has reasonably long support cycles for security related bug fixes for the low-cost version.

Redhat and SuSE's upgrade cycle seems much more disruptive than Debian's. Our main frustration with them is that each of them seem to want to do a complete re-install when doing a major upgrade.

Re:User vs. Business (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213944)

Redhat has 500 Million in the bank.
Debian has been around for a long time.

What guarantee is their that UL will be around in 2 years? After all what happened to UnitedLinux?

Re:User vs. Business (3, Interesting)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213971)

How do you plan on getting the closed source software venders to certify their products to run on UserLinux so I can get support on those apps from the vendor?

Marketing Image (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213778)

While that may be why its named that way, i agree with the first poster that it should be renamed..

Remember its not 'us' that need to understand, its the rest of the world.. And its all about effective marketing..

Poor naming ( regardless of accuracy ) is NOT good marketing.

Re:Marketing Image (3, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213890)

Why do so many people object to business people being referred to as "users"?

Bruce

Re: Marketing Image (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214013)

I do agree that it should be called something like "Business Linux" or something similar. "UserLinux" just is not a well thought out name as far as marketing goes.

It may suprise you, but something as simple as a name can make a world of difference to business people, you know, the types that you want to purchase "UserLinux?"

Re: Marketing Image (3, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214082)

I do have some marketing experience. Hey, my name is a trademark for a successful series of books. I am attempting to appeal to the people who sit behind the computer. They do have some influence upon their management.

Bruce

Re: User vs. Business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213883)

Please don't take this to be me just mindlessly trolling, as I do in fact respect what you are doing. However, I just can't see too many businesses latching onto something so new, untested and with such a *dumb* name.

Is there any chance of getting that name changed before the actual release?

Maybe? (5, Funny)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213632)

Maybe I'll get first post :-)

Bruce

Re:Maybe? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213671)

what a karma whore you are ;P

Re:Maybe? (5, Funny)

kundor (757951) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213672)

Hmm...leaving your "more mature forum that slashdot" to indulge in some puerile first-post attempts, eh? ;-) Just goes to show it happens to the best of us.

Congratulations on the release.

Re:Maybe? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213674)

Got extra karma to burn today eh? :-)

YOU FAIL IT YOU FAIL IT YOU FAIL IT YOU FAIL IT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213682)

OMFG FAILAR LOL

props to gnaa lsdjflskdjflaksjdflskj alskdfjsldkfj

you = teh suxx (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213686)

You fail it, you'd better answer the first poster's question, asshole ;-)

Re:Maybe? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213689)

How the hell does this get mod points?

Would you fucking moderators stop sucking this guys dick? All he's got is a big mouth and shares your viewpoint.

cocksmoking teabaggers, all of you. I don't know why the hell I even bother to show up.

Re:Maybe not. (4, Funny)

hugesmile (587771) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213695)

wow, if you are Bruce Perens and have a low slashdot id, you get modded up for "First Post" messages?

I am impressed.

not Bruce

Actually (2, Informative)

zantispam (78764) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213768)

if you are Bruce Perens and have a low slashdot id, you get modded up for "First Post" messages?

Yes.

Re:Maybe not. (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213772)

wow, if you are Bruce Perens and have a low slashdot id, you get modded up for "First Post" messages?

Come on, it's the real Bruce Perens ;-).

Re:Maybe not. (1)

deego (587575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213807)

> sarcastic comment about Bruce getting +funny.

I don't understand what your problem is. Yes, first of all, being Bruce is big. And you are not him.

Second, it is modded funny because the mod found it so and thought others would find it too. I sure did.

Now, a side-effect of it being funny is that Bruce's karma improved, and that makes you jealous? because you think it is undeserved? Jeez, why is karma-score so important to some extra-competitive scores?

finally, note that +1 funny doesn't actually improve your karma (see slashdot faq's for more).

Ref: also read slashdot faqs, and how they ask you to not fret too much about the "karma"..

Re:Maybe not. (2, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213916)

For those who worry about karma whoring: There is a karma cap of 50. I have made 48 moderation points in one day, commenting on one story that concerned me. So, there would be no point in my doing anything for karma. I have more of it than I can use.

Bruce

Re:Maybe not. (1)

Gherald (682277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214064)

+1 Funny moderations do not count towards karma.

RTFFAQ

Re:Maybe not. (1)

deego (587575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214083)

> RTFFAQ

and so i mentioned in the parent too. WYFP?

Re:Maybe not. (1)

deego (587575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213908)

> wow, if you are Bruce Perens and have a low slashdot id, you get modded up for "First Post" messages?

there's another reason, the primary one that made the post funny and was apparently lost on you and the mod that marked you insighftful-- the story was about userlinux, which is brought to you by Bruce.

Your forgot something. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213706)

You forgot to include you name in the first 45 characters of the Wiki. Please do this as we do not want you to miss any of the consulting revenue that you derive from this.

Hell, we all know that that is about the only reason you do anyting involving linux these days.

Prove me wrong by listing 3 major things you have done to help linux in the past 3 years that where not directly related to bringing you consulting revenue.

Re:Your forgot something. (1)

EightBits (61345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213721)

You have a problem with a man making money?

Re:Your forgot something. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213738)

You got a problem with your wife renting out hoagie space in her ass?

A whore is a whore. Simply put, one who trades their morals for money is a whore.

Re:Your forgot something. (1)

EightBits (61345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213784)

LOL!!! No, I don't have a problem with that! :) Hahahaha! It's a good thing I don't have morals to trade or you might be right about me! :) Still LOL!!!

But, I would like an answer to my question, but I'm going to rephrase it after your last post. Do you have a problem with a man making a living from doing consulting, especially with regards to Linux? If not, then I don't understand what the problem is. I guess what I'm really trying to say is: please verify what you really mean by your statements.

And thanks. I'm not being sarcastic. Your last post made me laugh and made my day a lot better!! Despite not liking your point, it's funny nonetheless! If I were a moderator I would give you a 1: Funny

Re:Your forgot something. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213814)

No: But I think that someone who says they are in linux to help people should show what he is doing to help people.

It appears he is now riding on the effort and work of others.

Re:Your forgot something. (2, Insightful)

EightBits (61345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213914)

But that's ok. Riding on the work of others is done by everyone. Do you know Ohm's Law? If you do, did you develop it yourself? How about Calculus or, computers. Did you invent the microproccesor? If you are using these tools to make a living, then you are also riding on the effort of others. This is why humans form societies. It makes life easier for each individual and for the whole collective.

As for helping people, by merely helping linux grow in popularity in businesses willing to spend money on Linux, he is helping the linux community grow. Let's face it, while Linux can do just fine on it's own, it can do even better wth money. If I didn't have to worry about money, I would contribute a lot of time to Linux. So, if I can make money while helping Linux, both I and Linux win. By helping Linux in this way, the demand for Linux and Linux apps grows. The more this demand grows, the better the product will get due to more development. He IS helping the community and like everyone else, he is riding on the effort and work of others but still contributing to that effort and work.

Not even being Bruce Perens saves you from... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213813)

YOU FAIL IT!

OMFG BruZe Perens it TEH SUX0rZZz!@!!!1!1!11one

(laugh, it's a joke!)

Re:Maybe? (1)

Codifex Maximus (639) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213849)

Funny. :)

I'd like this thrown in: LSB Compliant. After all, LSB has pretty much the same goals.

Re:Maybe? (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213935)

You get *paid* to hang out on Slashdot and discuss Free Software? No fair...

Re:Maybe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214020)

Unfortunately, your attempt at "fristage postage" fails it. I'm sorry

Don't worry too much, though. I failed it about 5 times before I got my GNAA fp, and you can succeed it if you try harder.

Please consider joining GNAA. http://www.gnaa.us/ [www.gnaa.us] contains instructions on how to join. -- Goat-see (GNAA)

I liek it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213653)


i instaled userlunix and my puter runs fastr than evar! Evan fastar that wit FleaBSD and OwepenBSD.

UsarLinucks r0x0r5 and is only $699!

Darl McBride

Torrent (5, Funny)

anandpur (303114) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213657)

Do we need torrent for 4.5 megabytes iso image?
http://userlinux.com/installer/netboot.iso

yet another distro? (4, Insightful)

bwy (726112) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213661)

Personally instead of seeing 100's of distros I'd like to see some serious work poured into maybe a handful of popular ones to make them more serious desktop contenders. There is a thin line between "choice" and "fragmentation".

Re:yet another distro? (5, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213713)

Then you will be happy with UserLinux. We do all of our technical development within the Debian project. Our value-add is support and certification. The only packages in our own repository are configuration, like selecting a list of debian packages and debconf settings for them, and patches that we haven't been able to get into Debian's release (none of those yet).

Bruce

any provision for... (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213840)

... a floppy based install instead of a mini cd? Reason is old machines with just floppies and smaller hard drives.

Like some of mine for instance.... like my old laptop still running 95.....and no way to attach a cd to it.... and stuff

Re:yet another distro? (1)

techmuse (160085) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213843)

Bruce: What are the advantages of this particular distribution over the other ones currently available?

On a semi-related note: I recently tried to install Debian, Knoppix, Mandrake, and Gentoo on my laptop. Of those, only Mandrake installed (mostly) successfully. Well, ok. Knoppix installed (to hard disk - I want a permanent environment), but had some serious bugs that forced me to keep re-creating user accounts. I also ran into a problem with Debian and Gentoo attempting to download packages, but not being able to get through our proxy firewall. (If only there were some way to get them to read the proxy.pac file...) In Debian, if I made a mistake in certain places, there was no way to go back and undo it. Does UserLinux have these issues?

Re:yet another distro? (5, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213969)

Well, first look at the advantages of Debian over other distributions.

  • 15,000 packages in one repository with no cross-dependency issues. 3 times Red Hat, 5 times SuSE.
  • 11 architectures (12 if you count AMD64, which will not be "official" for this release but exists and runs fine).
  • Open to participation by all. If you want something in the system and it's free software, you can be a Debian developer and get what you want done.
  • Over 1000 active developers. One of the largest Open Source projects.
  • More than 10 years of successful history. It's older than RH or SuSE.
Now, add what Debian hasn't been able to do: Commercial support, application vendor certification.

Regarding your installation issues. Please try the UL installer, which is based on the new Debian installer. It has a "go back" feature and asks for a proxy URL.Bruce

Re:yet another distro? (3, Interesting)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214070)

Looking at the web page, I wasn't really able to figure out what User Linux is. I mean, I see that you're doing commercial support and certification, but the impression I got was that the distribution is just Debian. (Especially comments like the best way to try out UL is to install debian and switch to unstable. If that's it, I've been running UL for years.)

I assume that's not everything, given that you have a seperate release and everything. What is the difference between the User Linux distribution and Debian? In other words, why aren't you just doing "Debian support" rather than creating a new project?

Re:yet another distro? (2, Interesting)

sydb (176695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213979)

If only there were some way to get them to read the proxy.pac file...

Interesting idea, would require a javascript interpreter somewhere though.

Failing that, why not just wget the pac file and read it to get an address, the set http_proxy and/or ftp_proxy environment variables?

And of course that could be be stuck in a script if the pac file is simple enough.

Prodigy Also (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213951)

They also work closely with Debian, especially since Ian is runing the place..

Not faulting UL, just another 'closely knit' option..

Re:yet another distro? (2, Insightful)

kundor (757951) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213714)

Ah, you're missing the point.

The strength of OSS is that the more different projects, and the more users, the better, because the core programs and libraries that everybody uses have their bugs fixed, features added, and generalizations taken care of even faster.

It's not fragmentation, because all the work of the different distros migrates upstream and benefits the entire community.

And it's been made clear many a time that having a choice of OS's specialized to your needs makes for a more satisfying experience than a "one-size-fits-all" OS that tries to be all things for all people and ends up being mediocre at all of them.

Re:yet another distro? (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213836)

"It's not fragmentation, because all the work of the different distros migrates upstream and benefits the entire community."

I don't think that's necessarily true. There's no requirement for changes to "migrate upstream" in the GPL. You are required to distribute the source when you distribute the application. If you don't distribute "upstream" then your changes may never be incorporated there.

Re:yet another distro? (2, Insightful)

archen (447353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213860)

You base that off of the assumption that people want to work on another distro when it many not meet their needs or goals. Some people work on a Linux distro because it's THEIRS, or they signifcantly contribute towards that distro's direction. You just aren't going to get that level of control or experimentation in Gentoo or Fedora. Probably 90% of Linux is concentrated in the top 10 distros (offical made up statistc!) anyway. Why stop at a handful? Why not go towards ONE distro for all?

Linux will come down to a handful of distros when everyone is actually happy with those distros. Those who try their hand at a new distro aren't just sitting on a mailing list bitching, they're actually working at making their own improvments their own way. And that's not such a bad thing either.

Hmm... (3, Insightful)

SavedLinuXgeeK (769306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213683)

I honestly don't think that the cost will have much of an effect on the success of this project. I mean, IT managers willingly pay $xxx to M$ for so much, anything remotely less than that is always a good deal. And then again, most people are apprehensive to the word free. Normally associating it with lower quality, hidden costs, etc. Honestly they could have charged $50 a licesnse, and it would probably increase its use. People like to pay for things they rely on, its just wierd.

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

4minus0 (325645) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214067)

Good points but the landscape with regards to budgeting is beginning to change. The company I work for does a mix of installations; fileservers, email, web...the usual. When given the choice, most businesses now like the sound of free.

It's basic economics...here's how we sell our open source services:
Companies are used to paying for a software license and support. It makes more sense to their bottom line to just pay for the support. Why pay more than you have to if somebody (in this case my company) will stand behind the product and support it?

Don't underestimate the power of free. We are beginning to deal with a lot of governmental type organizations (counties, city govts, etc) and they hate paying for a server license for Exchange, a CAL for the workstation and someone to support it. They simply do not have the funds for this kind of frivolous spending. If they aren't using the neat stuff of Exchange like shared calendars why not drop in a qmail|postfix|exim server and just pay for the support? Our backlog of contracts says that people will do that.

It comes down to this: the software is free for the taking...the support can either be absorbed in-house or outsourced, just like it always has.

Bruce Hating Troll from Linuxtoday.com/NewsForge (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213698)

Please post your messages as replies to this one.

Bruce, how about Canonical (3, Interesting)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213699)

Bruce Perens, now that you are around, what's your take on the Canonical project? On the surface, it would appear to be along the lines of what UserLinux is supposed to do... not forgetting that neither is "final" yet, of course ;-).

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (2, Insightful)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213758)

Is that the outgrowth of KDE-Debian, or something else? Give me a URL.

Bruce

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (2, Interesting)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213810)

Is that the outgrowth of KDE-Debian, or something else? Give me a URL.

No, it's a company (quite secretive so far) founded by Mark Shuttleworth. It's quite a bit in the stealth/rumour mode ATM, but you can see some buzz by googling for it.

The only url I can come up with now is http://no-name-yet.com/ [no-name-yet.com]

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213867)

you can see some buzz by googling for it.

Forgot to say that "canonical debian" is probably a good starting point for the googling.

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (3, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214015)

I spoke with Mark about it a while ago, before it had a name. It is much closer to my original business plan for Progeny as a Debian support company, than UserLinux as a non-profit core with an organization of multiple competing support companies around it. Progeny didn't implement my plan, by the way. Then wanted to be a shared filesystem developer, and that didn't work out.

Bruce

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213984)

Bruce Perens, now that you are around

...says UID 200914 to UID 3872. Bruce isn't exactly the new guy around here (well, to most of you ;-) ).

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214090)

Bruce isn't exactly the new guy around here (well, to most of you ;-) ).

I was assuming that Bruce isn't reading & posting to all the articles that appear on slashdot. I just saw that he was reading and posting to this one. I apologize for the damage done by the phrasing in the original message.

Wow, Something New... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213702)

YALD Yet Another Linux Distro.

So its "fixed"? (-1, Flamebait)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213707)

Have they re-worked the kernel and driver model so that normal people can add hardware?

No?

Never mind then, its YALD (yet another linux distro).

Re:So its "fixed"? (5, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213781)

The kernel is 2.6.8 at the moment, from the Debian package. It is so fully modular that it loads the IDE driver before it mounts the root drive - IDE isn't compiled in to the kernel, it's a module. Discover and hotplug are used to detect hardware and load drivers. As far as I can tell, it addresses the problem of normal people adding hardware.

Bruce

Re:So its "fixed"? (1)

chill (34294) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214036)

Is there an alternative kernel? 2.6.8 has problems as noted at http://k3b.plainblack.com/index.pl/news2.

This affects the dvd+rw-tools and not just K3B.

-Charles

motherhood, apple pie.... (4, Funny)

eludom (83727) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213709)

> he project, led by the long-time open source advocate Bruce
> Perens, aims to provide businesses with freely available, high
> quality Linux operating systems accompanied by
> certifications, service, and support options intended to
> encourage productivity and security while reducing overall
> costs."

Did I hear "buzzword compliant" ?

---eludom

Re:motherhood, apple pie.... (1)

Briareos (21163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213892)

Did I hear "buzzword compliant" ?

No, but you'll get a buzzword complaint from me for quoting all that...

np: Mouse On Mars - Send Me Shivers (Radical Connector)

Re:motherhood, apple pie.... (1)

jbr439 (214107) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213917)

Nothing is buzzword compliant without the use of the word synergy (or one of its derivatives such as synergistic).

Re:motherhood, apple pie.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214017)

Obviously not.
They left out "web services", "paradigm shift", and "excellence".

Collective Yawn (2, Insightful)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213728)

Userlinux is an answer to a question no one was asking.

Re:Collective Yawn (1)

gclef (96311) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213809)

Except for that guy the other day [slashdot.org] , who was looking for support for Debian. 'course, he was looking for more than that, but support would have helped his case.

Re:Collective Yawn (2, Informative)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213921)

Userlinux is an answer to a question no one was asking.

Umm, it's an answer most of people in the Linux-using IT industry have been asking for a few years - "where's the free-beer enterprise-grade Linux we've been expecting?"

I don't like the anti-RH attitude some less mature Linux enthusiasts seem to have, but boy, do I love to see the competition it will be getting from free alternatives (i.e. not just Novell/SUSE).

Re: Collective Yawn (1)

er_col (664618) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214069)

I wish I had points to mod you up.

Show them! (2, Interesting)

Bull999999 (652264) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213737)

freely available, high quality Linux operating systems accompanied by certifications, service, and support options intended

Best of luck to you and show them that it is quite possible to make money off of supporting open source softwares.

Re:Show them! (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213846)

Best of luck to you and show them that it is quite possible to make money off of supporting open source softwares.

It's already been shown. Remember Cygnus, Redhat, etc.

Re:Show them! (1)

Bull999999 (652264) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213928)

More the better as most non techies still thinks that OSS are free as in beer and also believe that you can only make money in the software business by selling them.

I don't get it (5, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213739)

...freely available, high quality Linux operating systems accompanied by certifications, service, and support options

Why a distro based on Debian? Why not just certify, service and support Debian itself?

I know there has to be a seperate distro for every ego in the OSS world, but from a technical point of view, why is a new distro needed?

Re:I don't get it (1)

Too Much Noise (755847) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213817)

Probably to standardize on a (small) subset of Deb that can be kept simple. The better question would be, if Deb releases a new stable (yeah, I know, before Duke Nukem Forever, yada-yada), how will this distro fare?

Also, if anyone would care to explain the broad "accompanied by certifications" statement - do these guys hope for some sponsorship in getting official certs?

Re:I don't get it (4, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213845)

Why a distro based on Debian? Why not just certify, service and support Debian itself?

We would end up certifying Debian, at least a specific subset of Debian packages, because our policy is not to do development outside of Debian except for configuration and temporary fixes.

Regarding service, we need to be outside of Debian to operate for-profit enterprises. Debian is part of a legal non-profit. So, we created a separate brand, and we will certify service providers to that brand and market the brand with funds from those service providers. But it makes sense to put the free software development in the non-profit, and that's where it will stay - in Debian.

Bruce

Re:I don't get it (1)

phreakv6 (760152) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213920)

From the FAQ on UserLinux Q: Why another Distro? Why not work on the Debian (Desktop) project and installer? Is improving an existing distro not better than creating a new one? A: [Jeff Waugh] The easiest way to answer this for yourself is: UserLinux is not a new distro. It *is* Debian. It just happens to have a different - or arguably more - focus. Concentrating on business and enterprise users and concentrating on what they want/expect rather than trying to be a general Linux ditribution.

Userlinux is weird (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213775)

Their wiki states that UI consistency among administration tools is a big problem in Linux. And then they choose Gnome, the environment which CAUSED that inconsistency with their HIG.

Freely avaliable... (1, Troll)

demon_2k (586844) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213832)

Freely available hight quality product with support? Who's paying for the developement?

UserLinux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213874)

Pfft, where's my RootLinux?

advantages of UserLinux (4, Informative)

phreakv6 (760152) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213882)

From a FAQ on UserLinux

Q: What will be the advantages of UserLinux?
A: [Brock Frazier] Key UserLinux distribution advantages:

1. Streamlined: UserLinux is a streamlined distribution with one key application in mind for a given piece of functionality. One web browser, one word processor, one mail client, one web server. This reduces support overhead both for users and for maintaining security.
2. Standards compliant: UserLinux encourages cooperation with other open source organizations, and values compliance with open standards.
3. Designed for business: The UserLinux distribution is specially tailored towards the needs of business.
4. Professional Services: The third party network of UserLinux affiliated commercial Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) allow for choice in professional services and custom application design options. The separation between the UserLinux organization and the ISVs is a win-win proposition allowing both the support advantages of a service provider network and the neutrality advantages of an operating system not tied to a single company.
5. Flexible: While each UserLinux configuration is designed to support common functionality as shipped, the systems are also open for expansion beyond the standard UserLinux set.
6. Disclosure: As a not-for-profit organization working with software developed in the open, the UserLinux organization as well as the development process for the UserLinux distribution are in the open. Critical system updates are clearly and promptly announced so systems remain properly secured.
7. Lack of lock-in: There are no licensing fees for the UserLinux distribution or related development tools. Service is available from your choice of service providers, but is never mandatory.
8. Free to obtain: ISO images and the source code are freely available.
9. Inexpensive to maintain: The streamlined nature of the UserLinux distribution assures less software to update. There are no per seat charges or OS licenses to be tracked and audited.
10. Secure: Leveraging from the power of open source, the code used in the UserLinux distribution not only has thousands of hours of development but thousands of hours of peer review.
11. Certifications: Hardware, software, support and professional certifications will be available.

More info, please? (1)

kollivier (449524) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213885)

I realize this project isn't at the "released" stage yet, but the web site and even the article linked here don't really provide much info on what makes UserLinux "special". Not only is there little to market specifically to suit types, but to me as a geek there's no info on the site that shouts "here's why we're different!" Specifically, information like: how does it intend to improve the Linux "desktop" initiative? This really needs to be fixed, IMHO, if people are to take a serious interest in UserLinux. To me, it's looking like "yet another distro" which is more upsetting then anything, because I'm getting tired of having more and more similar but slightly different choices that leave me wondering why so many distros are considered to be a good thing. Maybe if everyone decided to work together, rather than all start their own distros, the Linux platform would be in better shape than it is on the desktop.

So, why will UserLinux not be just another one of the pack?

Human DDOS attack on Slashdot by Pruce Berens (5, Funny)

mdproctor (74927) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213904)

It has been reported the Pruce Berens, from the KickMeInTheGooliesILikePainLinux fame, is attempting to bring slashdot down by furiously typing at his keyboard to reply to every single slashdot post creating a human DDOS attack. Luckily slashdot has survived this onslaught and he's on his way to achieving a world record for the most number of posts on slashdot for a single article, as long as his smoking keyboard withstands the punishment.

Re:Human DDOS attack on Slashdot by Pruce Berens (2, Informative)

flossie (135232) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214001)

It has been reported the Pruce Berens is attempting to bring slashdot down by furiously typing at his keyboard to reply to every single slashdot post creating a human DDOS attack.

LOL! :o)

It certainly looks that way. According to his user page [slashdot.org] , he has only replied to 10 so far. He certainly does a good job of getting noticed!

Watching with interest (3, Interesting)

Skraut (545247) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213932)

As "The computer guy" among other things in a small office, I'll say this is something that definately interests me. As more and more of my day gets consumed with cleaning systems ridden with viruses and spyware (Yes I have scanners and all the usual crap up there, but this isn't my "full time" job here and shouldn't have to be) I've been contemplating just making the whole office switch to Linux.

Obviously that's a huge jump and the right distro is important. I've been strongly considering Gentoo mosty for keeping the systems up to date and secure (leave everyone in the stable tree, and cron a nightly GLSA to patch all known security holes, and emerge -uD world)

As "administration free" as it seems right now in thought, I am a bit concerned of the nightmare it could become if things get unorderly.

With Red Hat abandoning the business desktop a dedicated business desktop with the open source community behind it is exactly what I am looking for. I admire Sun's Java desktop and Xandros' Business desktop, but I guess I'm just too spoiled by the Debian and Gentoo forums. Both are very active with loads of people helping out. For me I'd much rather get my help that way as apposed to waiting on hold to talk to the next know nothing tech support person.

Kernel Versions? (5, Insightful)

JHillyerd (13209) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213938)

I love Debian on servers, that's the one place where packages not changing often is a good thing.

One big frustration I have with debian-stable is that the kernel gets so far out of date, that it doesn't support newer hardware properly. Will UserLinux try to keep more up-to-date with kernel versions. I don't need bleeding edge, but 2.4.18 is two and half years old!

Don't tell me to use debian-testing, I've tried it and it replaces too many packages too often for a production machine.

Re:Kernel Versions? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214012)

I suggest you look a bit harder. Debian has the current kernels individually listed.

Re:Kernel Versions? (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214021)

Don't tell me to use debian-testing, I've tried it and it replaces too many packages too often for a production machine.

Umm, use Debian testing (==Sarge). It will be released Any Day Now (my guess - 2 months), so it's not changing much anymore, at least not in disruptive fashion (like Sid).

So go change those apt sources *now*, or download the debian-installer netinstall image. Just be sure to get 2.6.7 kernel if your Linux partition will be on a SATA disk (the latest, 2.6.8, doesn't work).

Wow! (0, Flamebait)

NessusRed (710227) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213939)

This is really really great. Another distro. Whats this make like 50000000 distro. We need this like another hole in the head. The linux community needs to concentrate on a single good distro as opposed to a million crap distros.

A little off topic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10213963)

I know it's a little off topic, but while we're talking about free distributions, what about PowerPC64 compatible distributions? Userlinux is x86, so that's no help. Fedora, the have a couple of files in the dev branch, but no ISOs. The best I can find are RedHat AS and Suse Enterprise Linux, but both of those are not free. Yellow dog claims to have a distribution, but not if you don't give them some money.

Is the PowerPC 64 completely deviod of free linux distributions?

Re:A little off topic (0, Flamebait)

NessusRed (710227) | more than 9 years ago | (#10213999)

People care about MACS even less then they do about linux. Switch to a real system and stop asking stoopid questions. k thx hand.

Re:A little off topic (1)

Lank (19922) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214005)

I think Gentoo has a PPC ISO. I'm not 100% on that, though. I figured I'd install Linux on my Mac just to try it out, but then I found Fink. [sourceforge.net] It was really all I needed.

Giving Back (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10214022)

Bruce, one major thing you haven't talked about on your wiki is how you are going to give back to us developers who work on Debian, which is the core distro. So far, no of the distro vendors have been willing to support us monetarily (unless they hire us into their corporations). What is the plan on redistributing some of that consulting/support income back to us?

BusinessLinux makes sense (2, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 9 years ago | (#10214047)

And the first person who gets a serious distro using that name will do VERY well. It's a name that makes sense and we know that everything is in the name... or at least the people who make decisions think so.

Here's my wish/hope list for a business [client] oriented distribution:

Network Login Service Support for:

* Novell NDS, Microsoft Domains and of course your NIS and all that.

* A nice email + swiss army software thingy (like Evolution with support on the server)

* MS Office compatible office suite and/or an ass-kickin' wine configuration that REALLY works especially for brain-dead admins who expect to double-click on SETUP.EXE.

Of course there will be other apps that will need to complete anything beyond the basics listed above, but once those basics are done, it's 90% there.

And when I mean MS Office compatible, I mean REALLY stinking compatible for importing and exporting MS Word docs and stuff. So far, nothing's been perfect yet though it keeps getting better.
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