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China: the New Advanced Technology Research Hotbed

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the look-what-i-made dept.

Technology 452

securitas writes "The New York Times' Chris Buckley reports that China is the new hotbed of advanced technology research and development for hundreds of global technology companies. The list includes household names like Oracle (which 'opened a lab in Beijing to tailor its Linux operating software to suit its Asian customers'), Motorola, Siemens, IBM, Intel, General Electric, Nokia and others. Microsoft Research Asia hopes Google-surpassing technology comes from a group of '10 researchers ... working on new ways to drill deep into the Internet and select and organize the information found there.' Growth of the R&D sector in China is so rapid that 'within five years China could overtake Britain, Germany and Japan as a base for corporate research, leaving it second only to the United States.'"

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Reg Free Link - No Karma Whoring (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247508)

Reg Free Link [nytimes.com]

OK, now let's argue over whether or not Slashdot counts as a "Blog", and whether or not we should be using the New York Times Link Generator [blogspace.com] to create links so that people can RTFA!

Yes, BugMeNot works too, but if you're going to provide an article to Slashdot, at least make it so everyone can read it without jumping through hoops...

Re:Reg Free Link - No Karma Whoring (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247758)

now let's argue over whether or not Slashdot counts as a "Blog"

Well, this definition [blogscanada.ca] fits, and even mentions Slashdot as an extreme form of blog:

"At the other extreme, the Slashdot weblog, featuring news about technology and tech policy, is essentially written by its audience."

GNAA reactionaries take Condoleezza Rice hostage (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247510)

GNAA reactionaries take Condoleezza Rice hostage
Zeikfried - Associated Press, America

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OSTG [wildlandfire.com] was unavailible for comment, however it has been confirmed via Netcraft that LostCluster [walbran.org] has been given a pre-emptive +5, fellatio from Slashdot editor Michael Sims, several hours before the articles posting.

About l0de:

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Hooray for China! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247526)

All praise to the omniscient chairman Mao and the seeds of China's progress that were planted in the Cultural Revolution!!

Communism in the lead! (-1, Troll)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247531)

This just goes to prove that democracy doesn't work.

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247532)

Foxtrot
India
Romeo
Sierra
Tango

Papa
Oscar
Sierra
Tango

Re:first post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247742)

Yankee
Oscar
Uniform

Foxtrot
Alpha
India
Lima

India
Tango

Any link to China-Linux here? (3, Insightful)

Progman3K (515744) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247541)

China announces massive adoption of Linux.
A short time later, China emerges as a research-leader...

Of course you CAN do research with closed-source operating systems like Windows, but you have to wait until Microsoft ALLOWS you to.

*chuckle*

Re:Any link to China-Linux here? (4, Interesting)

Stripe7 (571267) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247675)

China knows that it is way behind in technology, so it is establishiing technology enclaves where its people can learn and train up to catch up fast. This is opposed to the US where biotech is being squahed by the right wingers, and info tech is being restricted by the copyright holders and the US goverment. The US is also pushing all its high tech manufacturing industries offshore, China is offering really good terms for moving those industries into China. Project 20 years from now, all our weapons systems are dependent on hardware and software from China. Our millionaires will be running to China for longetivity treatments etc..

You didn't listen to Arnold. (5, Funny)

asoap (740625) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247952)

You are obviously wrong here. If you had listened to Arnold at the Republican convention you would already know that this is not a possibility, because... well.. because the Governator said so! If you don't like then your just being an economic girlie man!!!!

Personally, I agree with you, I just don't think Arnie will though.

-Derek

Re:Any link to China-Linux here? (4, Interesting)

Rei (128717) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247784)

China isn't only pushing for software research, though. The country has a huge drive being pushed for involving tech research of all kinds. Back when I worked at Rockwell-Collins, we sometimes read papers about the sort of radio and radar research being worked on in China... pretty impressive stuff, really. One that really stood out to me was a type of radar which broadcasts very broad-spectrum, relatively low-energy, "noise" of the same frequency distribution as background noise, and does a statistical analysis on received background noise to look for unnatural shifts in distrubtion that would represent a reflected signal.

The country has been pushing heavily for all kinds of tech development; if you'll recall, the US and china had a rift a while ago over China trying to force hardware to release proprietary fabrication and design information if they wanted to have access to China's markets. China wants to take the US and Japan's places as the leading international tech powerhouses. It's probably a good strategy, too - they have a large, well educated (at least in urban areas) population. I think they can pull it off.

And, as unpopular as this statement might be... I think their largely totalitarian government - so long as they don't infringe enough on their people so as to reduce their work ethic, their national pride, and the ability for businesses to compete with each other - will actually help them in competition with the US, due to the greater degree of strategic control they can have over their markets. The US would have a lot more trouble trying to do things like force foreign companies to disclose their tech secrets, apart from outright spying.

its about time... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247542)

they offered something to the rest of the world. i can't think of a single thing to date the chinese have ever created that has benifited humans.

Re:its about time... (-1, Offtopic)

gears5665 (699068) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247624)

troll... chess, sun tzu's art of war, numerous works on how to run a government, spaggetti, silk, ...

Re:its about time... (0, Offtopic)

Chess_the_cat (653159) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247687)

Chess? What the fuck are you smoking? Chess is an Indian game. As for "works on how to run a government" maybe the Chinese should read those themselves. And silk comes from a worm! That's like crediting Canadians with lobster! Spaghetti is Italian. You're thinking of noodles. But Art of War is a good book. I'll give you that.

Re:its about time... (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247798)

As for "works on how to run a government" maybe the Chinese should read those themselves.

Umm, their government was totally crooked when the U.S. was trying to find the best way to exploit their workers. They beat the U.S. there.

The war is on. And the Chinese will win. All they have to do is stop shipping to the U.S. and it will hurt the U.S. faster than it will hurt China. They now have the ability to not only raise themselves to first world status, but the ability to lower others from first world to second and third world status. on a whim.

All the U.S. has is nukes. And they'll go about as far as its righteous indignation.

Re:its about time... (1)

gcaseye6677 (694805) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247931)

If China ever stopped shipping to the U.S, there would be plenty of other countries lined up to take their place. Chinese firms have managed to provide products that are cheap and of adequate quality, depending on what your standards are. Other countries have cheap labor too, and as soon as there is demand they will be able to crank out manufactured products in almost the same way.

Re:its about time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247882)

Silk does come from a worm, the same way ICs come from sand.

Re:its about time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247712)

How about Fireworks? And Chinese Food! Love that take-out ;)

Re:its about time... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247761)

fork, spices

Re:its about time... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247781)

Dry Cleaning!

Re:its about time... (5, Insightful)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247849)

i can't think of a single thing to date the chinese have ever created that has benifited humans.
Gunpowder. Rockets. Astronomical records dating back to the supernova that became the Crab Nebula.

Re:its about time... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247928)

And chinese porn [chinadaily.com.cn]

Re:its about time... (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247947)

Let's not forget inventing typeset printing -- that's _actually_ inventing it, not coming up with it magically thousands of years after someone else invented it... COUGH*Gutenberg*COUGH

The first thing off of the Gutenberg press? The Bible. The next thing? Pr0n.
(clean history of printing) http://www.studyworld.com/newsite/ReportEssay/Hist ory/General%5CThe_History_of_Printing-362967.htm [studyworld.com]
(brief mention of gutenberg's rapid switch to printing filth: R-rated link, sorry) http://www.robyncalifornia.com/writing/o_01-06-25. html [robyncalifornia.com]

Is "insourcing" a word? (5, Insightful)

Control Group (105494) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247544)

Interesting - it seems China is engaging in a sort of internal outsourcing, if that makes any sense. The pace of technological development in China was slower than they wanted, so they've farmed the job out to imported companies. Make the country more attractive to foreign investors (no, not the ones from the Hotel Royale), and take advantage of their experience and financial grounding to foster a tech development surge.

What's most fascinating about this, to me at least, is that in Western countries, this would be just a sort of emergent phenomenon, unpredicted and unplanned. But in China, odds are good that this is a deliberate strategy on the part of the Chinese government.

Which, incidentally, is something that a lot of people seem to overlook: China's economy is becoming more and more capitalistic, but China is still politically and socially very much a state-run nation. The increasing captilism is part of the government's plan to bring the Chinese economy to the forefront of the world, and I tend to believe that this surge in R&D is just as much a deliberate strategy on the part of the Chinese government.

Frankly, I find the whole thing fascinating.

Re:Is "insourcing" a word? (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247587)

It seems to me that the Chinese government made a tacit agreement with the Chinese people after Tiananmen Square: you keep your mouths shut about politics (and if you don't, we've got tanks to remind you) and we'll let you get rich. It would be nice to believe that economic freedom and social freedom are inextricably linked, but in fact China (and Vietnam, for that matter) are doing a pretty good job of allowing the first while keeping strict controls on the second. This is a trick the Right learned long ago, but now the Left is catching up.

Re:Is "insourcing" a word? (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247865)

I think it's more, "we don't mind you getting rich as long as we get even richer freom the fruits of your labor."

Re:Is "insourcing" a word? (2, Insightful)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247953)

What all the newcomers will eventually find out is what the early "adopters" already have: that China is an industrial Black Widow. It wines and dines and flatters corporations it has interest in, gets them to commit major resources to China and thus into a vulnerable situation, and then it scavenges them to the highest degree possible for technical know-how and IP. It's happened with heavy technology companies, it's happened with electronics companies, it's happening with car manufacturers. And yet they are still all drawn to China by their money-grubbing little hearts. I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the long run most of these western corporations won't benefit much or any at all from that mythical Chinese exploding consumer and workforce base. But they will lose a lot of their technical advantage in the process, when all of a sudden they find themselves competing in their own home markets with either cheap and cheeky clones of their own products, or with cheap products heavily influenced by IP they so willingly handed to China as the price of doing business there. Of course, in their minds that will only happen to their competitors, not to themselves.

Good or Bad? (0)

feyhunde (700477) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247546)

I'm unsure if this is good or bad. Good for society that there is more research, bad for other first world nations because China will be a major player in the information economy.

Of course I could RTFA and find out what they want me to feel. But this is Slashdot after all.

This should serve as a warning to US lawmakers ... (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247549)

... to lift technology export restrictions. Right now. All of them. (Okay, with the exception of classified military research -- but we should also take a hard look at what's classified, and why, and whether keeping it classified does any good.) Once upon a time, when the US and its European allies were the only source for high tech, this policy made a certain amount of sense on national security grounds. But now, the restrictions only serve to weaken national security, by hurting the technology base in the US -- or are simply annoyances to be worked around by companies like Microsoft and Oracle, which are theoretically US companies but are in fact loyal only to themselves.

The irony (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247550)

The irony of the "google beating search" is that it's being done in a country that heavily censors the internet. I wonder what they might use a powerful search engine for...?

Re:The irony (5, Insightful)

teal (4252) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247629)

That was exactly my thought. Why would they want a better search engine since they would be censoring a lot of it anyways. Maybe the idea is by building a better search engine they can do better censorship.

Re:The irony (4, Interesting)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247662)

I suspect that Microsoft's definition of "better" in search engine terms looks a lot more like the Chinese government's than Google's does. Just a thought ...

Re:The irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247755)

I think it's amusing that Microsoft may build and host this in China where (if done under a different company's name) they might make it hard for Google to chase them for IP infringements, though.

If it works, perhaps this'll change MSFTs view on IP piracy.

Re:The irony: In Communist China (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247779)

It's pretty obvious what a censoring, Big Brother state wants do with an extremely powersul search engine:

In Communist China, the search engine looks for YOU!

Within 5 years? (3, Funny)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247558)

"within five years China could overtake Britain, Germany and Japan as a base for corporate research, leaving it second only to the United States."

And within ten? Maybe we can do their tech support for them. Outsourcing's a bitch, but it works both ways.

Re:Within 5 years? (2, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247639)

More likely, they'll be "outsourcing" to those areas of China which, right now, are effectively still living in the Middle Ages. Coastal China is now very nearly First World, but they've got a lot of Second and Third World inside the country to work with. And they're patient.

Re:Within 5 years? (4, Insightful)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247739)

Not only are they patient, they are controlling resources. They do not have destructive competition as we do here. If competition is good for the economy, they keep it. If it is bad, they simply repurpose a company. There is no redoubling of effort for no perceived gain.

As an additional caveat, they get to completely skip the industrial revolution, but get all the benefits. They didn't have to invent and refine the assembly line, the cotton gin, the milling machine, anything that would increase production. They simply bought them. And when they couldn't buy them, they threw their biggest natural resource at the problem; their population.

It's socialist capitalization, and unfortunately for us, it's quite effective!

Re:Within 5 years? (2, Interesting)

ThosLives (686517) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247886)

It's an odd thing that most "good capitalists" forget: cooperation is actually better than competition. The trouble is, generally it is only competition that drives people to cooperate...go figure, eh?

And, when you're China and can manage to get your billion-plus population to cooperate...you pretty much don't have anone that can effectively compete against you. It is really quite genious houw they worked that out, even considering the social hardships that we consider them to have (for who are we to tell others what is and is not a hardship anyway?).

Re:Within 5 years? (1)

Donny Smith (567043) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247905)

>There is no redoubling of effort for no perceived gain.

Oh, well, it's not all that great. They wouldn't be that way if it all worked perfectly as you say.
Many state-run businesses are the worst effort doublers (at least in the financial sense - they pour money in them) for continued negative gain (losses, that is) because they employ "the masses".
Another category of effort doublers are small family owned businesses - they have nowhere to go - you just put in as many hours as you can, tighten your belt, and you can remain your own boss forever...

>As an additional caveat, they get to completely skip the industrial revolution, but get all the benefits

Well, yeah - many have no professional working attitude, little have clue about the service economy, appreciation of intellectual property is minimal, etc. They also missed out a lot.

Their approach is nothing new - Japan has done the same thing - a lot of perispiration followed by some inspiration. China is doing the same, but they're 10 times the size.

In the end, once they get developed to some reasonable extent, they're gonna hit the wall because the way their society is organized, it can't truly prosper. To make that final step, they'll need good democracy. Even Japan, where democracy doesn't work very well as far as government efficiency and handling of the recent crisis is concerned, hasn't passed that test yet!

Re:Within 5 years? (5, Insightful)

gears5665 (699068) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247681)

do you speak or read chinese?

Re:Within 5 years? (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247874)

I've got ten years to learn. How hard can it be? I've seen children do it for chrissakes.

Re:Within 5 years? (1)

phyruxus (72649) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247771)

China: pop 1,298,847,624.
Britain: pop 60,270,708.
Germany: pop 82,424,609.
Japan: pop 127,333,002.

China has plenty of people. I don't imagine they'd outsource anything they could keep in-house. (IANAEconomist)

Re:Within 5 years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247965)

Actually, in Japan it's: J-pop 127,333,002.

*ducks*

Those damn bits... (1)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247565)

Microsoft Research Asia hopes Google-surpassing technology comes from a group of '10 researchers ... working on new ways to drill deep into the Internet and select and organize the information found there.

...have no business hiding deep inside the Intarweb's bowels. They think they can look all doe-eyed and innocent and get away, but it won't work. I, for one, welcome Microsoft's earnest efforts in trying to drill them out.

I for one welcome ... (1)

CreamOfWheat (593775) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247570)

Our New Communist Chinese Overlords

Research Assistants (1, Insightful)

johnnyb (4816) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247572)

So are you treated better or worse over there as a research assistent than over here in the USA?

Bad news for US (4, Insightful)

CommanderData (782739) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247576)

Growth of the R&D sector in China is so rapid that 'within five years China could overtake Britain, Germany and Japan as a base for corporate research, leaving it second only to the United States.'

Great, and within 10 years they'll probably surpass the USA. That is the direction everything's heading- outsourcing the skilled, high tech, and R&D work is going to hollow out the US economy until it collapses in on itself like a neutron star...

Re:Bad news for US (1)

plasm4 (533422) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247649)

Hopefully by that time the real estate market bubbles even more to make up for the fact that productivity is down so we can still look good on paper.

Re:Bad news for US (USA USA USA) (4, Insightful)

gosand (234100) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247964)

Great, and within 10 years they'll probably surpass the USA. That is the direction everything's heading- outsourcing the skilled, high tech, and R&D work is going to hollow out the US economy until it collapses in on itself like a neutron star...

And maybe then, people in the US will FINALLY realize that the US is not the center of the universe.

And yes, I am a born-and-raised American. I am just so friggin sick of this idea that the USA is the greatest country in the world and that it always will be. It isn't a big surprise that the "rest of the world" will catch up to and probably surpass us in lots of things. Think automobile production in the 70s. Think electronics. Think military. We are so used to being bullies and living in our own minds that we have forgotten the rest of the world. How many times have you heard something like: "France doesn't like our politics? Screw 'em, who needs the French anyway?" I have heard it way too much. The US is probably the least worldly nation on the planet. (that should be)

Not to start a flamewar, but this is what the Bush administration has been basing its entire existence on! And it hasn't just been Bush, it has been our entire government over the last XXX years.

Unfortunately, it will probably take something catastrophic like a shift in the tech sector, or even worse some military shift to wake people up in this country.

Better than Google? (4, Insightful)

tyler_larson (558763) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247578)

...Google-surpassing technology comes from a group of '10 researchers ... working on new ways to drill deep into the Internet and select and organize the information found there.'

Sorry to say it, but I really don't find anything dissatisfying about the way Google selects and organizes information found on the Internet. Rarely do I ever even look at the second page of search results, because the first one always has the information I was after.

If Microsoft wants to beat Google, they're going to have to pick a different venue.

Re:Better than Google? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247733)

Mod parent up. Search technology, as the parent pointed out is a maturing technology. This no longer high-tech R&D.

Once you get to the point where "I search ... it gives me what I wanted" almost every time, you've really reached a point of diminishing returns.

At that point, it's a question of who can "manufacture" their search engine more cheaply, and MSFT and China are both good at that game.

Way to go guys! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247583)

That's good business sense - train your competition, so that native Chinese companies can steal your lunch in a few years.

Typical American crap - since anything past 1-2 quarters is "an infinity away".

*sigh*

Re:Way to go guys! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247692)

Hey, not to worry. Tech workers will all migrate to the service sector. Working for Wal Mart and flipping burgers and such.

Drill down? (2, Funny)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247597)

Is the announcement trying to be buzzword compliant?

This is Good for World Peace (5, Insightful)

tealover (187148) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247601)

Many people make fun of Nixon, but his Sunshine Policy with regard to China has really helped China and the world. Can you imagine China as closed and belligerent as North Korea ?

And the other thing is competition is good for everyone.

Re:This is Good for World Peace (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247647)

Many people make fun of Nixon, but his Sunshine Policy with regard to China has really helped China and the world. Can you imagine China as closed and belligerent as North Korea ?

Yes- because I've dealt with Chinese businesmen. Of course, I find all businesspeople to be closed and belligerent- so that shuldn't be surprising.

And the other thing is competition is good for everyone.

Everyone excpe the guy who used to be on top- who is now homeless due to competition.

Re:This is Good for World Peace (1)

Quixote (154172) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247754)

So.. who's going to apply this "sunshine" policy to Cuba and DPRK ?

Re:This is Good for World Peace (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247802)

Good for world peace how? Are you saying that based on the Balance of Power principal?

Or to put it in terms /. understands?

"The only solution is ... a balance of power. We arm our side with exactly that much more. A balance of power -- the trickiest, most difficult, dirtiest game of them all. But the only one that preserves both sides." -- Kirk, "A Private Little War", stardate 4211.8
IIRC, the MAD strategy did depend on such a ballance.

Re:This is Good for World Peace (2, Interesting)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247904)

Do you know how many of the countries that germany, in WW2, attacked/invaded had major economic ties with germany? Most of them.

It has happend before, and it will happen again.

But they can't even form acronyms! (5, Funny)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247616)

Western languages like English use alphabetical glyphs which are combined to form words, which can recursively combine to form acronyms and abbreviations.

By in China, Mandarin, Cantonese and other dialects are all written using ideographs, where one glyph represents a single word. As a result, it is impossible to form acronyms. And as a result, technological progress is impossible.

Now, where's my company acronym dictionary again?

Re:But they can't even form acronyms! (1)

pommiekiwifruit (570416) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247773)

Good point, but they just use the english acronyms [sunplus.com.tw] e.g. DVI, TFT, LCD.

Figures. (4, Informative)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247617)

In other words, they don't want to have to pay american or european researchers fat salaries.

Re:Figures. (1)

CommanderData (782739) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247657)

Exactly. That and depending on the area of research they may be able to do things that would be considered illegal in the USA.

Where's the whining... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247642)

Come on where's all the expected whining? These are 'potential' American research jobs, aren't they? High paying, cutting edge positions. If this article was about India I am sure all the regulars would be coming out of the woodwork.

Maybe it just goes to show...

Re:Where's the whining... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247663)

Damn, I just bought a house in Silcon Valley at a ridiculous price. Now I have to keep up with the Jones, or would that be the Zhangs, just when I was starting to be in the black again, now I am back in the Red.

Re:Where's the whining... (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247814)

Actually, I was waiting for the usual "why don't they solve all their social problems and get running water to the starving peasants before doing all that good technical stuff" posts.

Re:Where's the whining... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247835)

When you think of a Chinese outsourced shop, you think of millions of agrarian, poorly educated people wearing frustrum shaped hats.

When you think of an Indian outsourced shop, you think of your econ TA.

Let's face it, there's nothing worse than losing your job to a guy who acts like your econ TA.

To be expected (-1, Redundant)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247651)

C'mon... don't make me say it.

In Soviet China Technology Researches You!

Sorry.

Money goes where... (5, Insightful)

Duncan3 (10537) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247652)

All money flows as fast as possible to where it can grow the fastest.

Think you can double you money fast in US stocks? Fat chance. But in China companies are growing like crazy.

The US has peaked because everyone is already consuming at 110%, about set for a complete economic meltdown. China has a billion poor people, just waiting to spend all their money on stuff, and they don't speak English. *gasp*

That and a PhD researcher will cost you like $US 200/month.

Re:Money goes where... (1)

Chess_the_cat (653159) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247747)

China has a billion poor people, just waiting to spend all their money on stuff.

What does that even mean?

Re:Money goes where... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247759)

China has a billion poor people, just waiting to spend all their money on stuff.

Huh?

Re:Money goes where... (5, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247881)

First, most of the poor in china don't have enough money to by more than 3 suits of clothes.

Second, the Banking system in china is flush with bad loans and, if something isn't done, it will colapse. Either way, it will be very painful to fix.

Third, china is in the beginings of a major energy crisis.

Forth, what do you think will happen when all those poor peole realize that their 'leaders' are reaping all the profits?

Fifth, what happens to those stock holdings if China ever nationalizes our investements?

The world isn't a nice place, and neither is China. They do not like the US or Europe that much as, as soon as they can, they will rid themselves of us.

Re:Money goes where... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247912)

But in China companies are growing like crazy.

Is SCOX traded on the Shanghai exchange? [yahoo.com]

Is it really any surprise? (5, Insightful)

FerretFrottage (714136) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247656)

Considering that companies (MS, IBM, et al.) are patent whoring (whether be defensive or strategic in nature) in the US and reverse engineering is now considered to be a crime in most cases, it is stifling innovation. The US is now a sue-society where money talks and lesser companies/individuals are being held back my the corporate oligarchy.

Add to that the "bad stigma" associated with stem cell research here in the US...it's no surprise to me that the R&D in the US is declining and increasing in the world where people are less shackled by legal systems/lobbyist (now shackled human rights saved for another discussion)

Re:Is it really any surprise? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247821)

Newsflash: The Chinese government will have no reservation about stealing IP generated by these research labs. My opinion is that many of these companies are setting themselves up for a double whammy. First, they are gutting their customer base in the US for very low-paid potential customers in India and China that may never exist. Second, they are creating the next generation of low-cost competition and are essentially handing them the IP jewels.

The fact of the matter, though, is that all of this academic and industrial research, in the end, is a huge waste of resources that should be directed at product development. And, there is a difference.

My money is not on IT, biotech, or nanotech anymore. The signal/noise ratio is too small.

Kylin and China development (3, Interesting)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247664)

China Tech News [chinatechnews.com] has great articles about the hotbed of activity there.

And Kylin [chinatechnews.com] is supposed to be a windows, linux, unix and *BSD and MacOS beater ! Interesting stuff!

After the 2008 Olympics people will wake up to a reality, how advanced China is! I think it is great! Lets hope China becomes a huge adopter of linux! :-)

How many Chinese /. do we have? To keep up, I suggest we all Learn chinese characters! [zhongwen.com]

Looking forward to 2008. See you there!

Can I give out PhD's too? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247679)

I'm getting sick of the "Hire 10 PhD's from Elbonia for the price of one here" mentality some countries seem to have. I won't name any names, but it seems like half the countries in asia and eastern europe have PhD farms that are really starting to deflate the prestige once associated with such degrees.

Now I can't complain too much, because these country's high-school kids have better educations than your average college kid here. But it sure seems like this practice is narrowing the gap between a PhD and high-schooler.

I just wonder how many of the companies mentioned in this article are falling for the "everyone in our town has a PhD or two" pitch so many of these cities are selling them.

Re:Can I give out PhD's too? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247782)

I just wonder how many of the companies mentioned in this article are falling for the "everyone in our town has a PhD or two" pitch so many of these cities are selling them.

On the contrary, they're there because the chinese market is the last frontier, and it's the big one. To not be a player in China is to say you're comfortable in your niche until they come and take it away from you.

Sure, there will always be fly-by-night doctoral schools. Heck there are in the USA, where do you suppose John Gray (mars and venus) got his Masters and PhD? [compuserve.com] But that doesn't mean you can't screen them out and out of 1000 candidates find some who really know their stuff (same as in the west, I might add!)

PhD != (Expert || Intelligence) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247907)

The world places too much emphasis on PhDs and "experts". I have a PhD in CS from a name brand school, and people suddenly think you know everything about everything. The reality is that many PhDs do not jack because there is a tendency to push people through to degree, especially if they are funded on big projects at big schools. Academic integrity isn't the most important factor, quantity is. Go read a randomly selected dissertation to understand.

The world would be better off with fewer PhDs (i.e., pedantic blowhards) and more critical thinkers and problems solvers, people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Edison.

China what? (1)

0x54524F4C4C (712971) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247689)



Microsoft Research Asia hopes Google-surpassing technology comes from a group of '10 researchers ... working on new ways to drill deep into the Internet and select and organize the information found there

Can you read the paragraph above without having your eyes and intestines bleed? Oh wait, now I understood it correctly, Microsoft hired 10 chinese "researchers" to keep surfing the internet and indexing it with their brains.

Raise Your Hand (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247694)

Raise your hand if you were surprised by this. Really.

Over a decade back China placed great emphasis on education in technology, now with a large pool of talent to draw from the country is in a great position to harness it's own technology future, as well as that of other countries.

Meanwhile in the US, students care about being cool, having the latest toys and what others think. Only nerds actually study.

Perhaps chinese youth will catch up to the slovenly and egocentric ways of the west. Some chinese diplomat, back in the 1800's said something to the effect of 'China already has everything and needs nothing, what can Europe offer to China?' Well, the answer was Opium. Maybe the next opium craze in china will be western fashion, television and SUV's.

Re:Raise Your Hand (3, Interesting)

currivan (654314) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247866)

One question I've never seen an answer to: Why is China attracting so much more foreign investment than India? To an outsider, they both seem to put the same premium on science and engineering, and they both seem to have large pools of cheaper labor. Yet China has several times the dollar amount of foreign direct investment.

Could it be because India is a democracy and at least partially looks after its rural communities and environment, whereas the autocratic Chinese government can promise businesses protection from labor unrest and environmental regulation? Or are the Indians too protectionist with regard to foreign ownership?

The only cause for concern... (1)

Vexler (127353) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247696)

...is if China views this tremendous opportunity for cooperation and collaboration as a chance to exercise "techno-nationalism". Recall recent technological initiatives by China, such as the E-DVD format, that have been criticized as efforts to strongarm international community to adopt China's own technological standards - standards which even its own manufacturers have trouble meeting and even denounce as unworkable. While other efforts have been more subtle (think "Red Flag Linux"), one can't help but wonder if China's own tremendous potential may be undone by its nationalistic bent. But for the time being, China is indeed in the "zone".

USA advantage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247740)

"The Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida makes it clear that the US is not in danger of losing its innovation and therefore its edge in the international economy ... as long as the politicians don't screw things up worse.

Dont credit communism! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247748)

I saw someone crediting communism in this thread. Here is my reply to all those people:

I would not credit communism in this case. I call myself a communist and in my opinion (and most others) China is absoluteley not a communist nation.

I would credit the totalitarian system in china. If the leader(s) in such a system are working towards a goal, it will always reach that goal more effectively than a democracy (since the democratic process often slow things down - especially if it something that is unpopular - like terraforming a planet). However, more often than not, you end up with a leadership that spends most of its time on quelling resistance or abusing its powers, wich you do not want!

Totalitarian systems are verry bad things - even if it is more effective (like china) in some cases, for obvious reasons.

RIP (0)

anandpur (303114) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247749)

Silicon valley CA USA 199x-200x

Re:RIP (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247898)

Let me help refine that:
1984-2004

Re:RIP (1)

slew (2918) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247966)

> Silicon valley CA USA 199x-200x

What a young'n...

Silicon valley has been around much longer than 199x... That's quite a short sighted dot-bomb perspective.

Not saying that silicon valley does or doesn't have it's best years behind it (maybe, maybe not), but I always find it amusing how people forget about Fairchild/Intel, HP/Apple, and focus on the last business cycle...

The main thing keeping Si valley anchored where it is today isn't technology or technology people at all (there are tech people everywhere), it is the venture capital $$$ from firms based in the mid-pennisula area (eg. Palo Alto). They all seem to want to invest near home. That maybe change slowly (just as it moved from new york/new jersey to boston/route128 to paloalto/siliconvalley over time, money tends to move pretty slowly over time unlike technology...

Surprise, Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247756)

What do you expect from a country that eschews civilization retardants like the draconian intellectual "property" laws of the West.

Wow, who'd have thought! (0, Troll)

lgordon (103004) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247801)

Who'd have thought that slave labor would be so intellectually stimulating!

Gee.... I can't imagine why.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247807)

There isn't that much excitement about R&D in America anymore. Our universities must not be churning out enough bullsh*t history, psychology, and theater majors fast enough to keep up with the Chinese.

Hmm wonder why (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247808)

could it be that every company in the USA and most companies elsewhere is struggling to establish any relation it can with a million zillion chinese prospective customers?

Oh that involves investing a little bit? Well that's the nature of buisiness. What? You want us to put some jobs over there? Sure! How about some research jobs? They are egghead and cool-sounding, but that leaves us with the all-important administrative jobs still here in the west... wouldn't want to outsource ourselves now, would we?

Cheap labor, but no IP protection (2, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247820)

After a few big companies get burned by having their IP stolen by the Chinese, I suspect that the lure of cheap, highly educated labor will wane.

Sweet! Let's help 'em... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247878)

we can just do what we're already doing and keep outsourcing there to help build up their resumes! =)

So what (2, Funny)

Frequanaut (135988) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247894)

We've got FASHION WEEK [bostonherald.com] here in the good old U.S OF FREAKING A!!!!!

Let's see THAT in China!

The immorality of Open Source (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247895)

Having read the article thoroughly, this startling news shows the flaws in the brewing Open Source Zeitgeist that is gripping the software community. Have you considered that providing software for free to countries such as China is essentially tacit support for oppressive regimes?

Far-fetched? Think about it: With MySQL, the People's Army will now be able to do multiple queries on their tables of democratic activists in Olog(n) time instead of lengthy searches in card catalogs. The bureaucratic overhead previously allowed activists enough time to flee the country. How about building cheap firewalls so the people can't get the unbiased reporting that CNN provides? Or using Apache to publish lists of Falun Gong people to their police forces instantly? I doubt that never crossed your minds when you were coding away in your parents' basements. Consider putting that little thought in your mental resolv.conf file.

If that does not concern you ( which it probably doesn't, since the slashdot.org paradigm is publishing articles about how not to pay for things ), consider something else. When China eventually goes to war with Taiwan, we want to be able turn their command and control facilities into the computing equivalent of a train-wreck. One of the advantages of Windows never mentioned in the article is the ability of Microsoft to remotely deactivate Windows XP in the case of a national emergency. Thanks to GNU/Lunix, Taiwan will be on a collision course with the mainland in the near future.

Which throws into question Mr. Stallman's motives. A known proponent of socialism, the Chinese government and RMS are natural allies. Could it be a back door to Stallman's dream of an uber-Socialist United States? We may never know for sure. Next time you consider contributing to an open source project, ask yourself this question: don't you want to make sure your work isn't used for nefarious purposes? Will you risk having blood on your hands?

So what is this "advanced technology" anyway (5, Insightful)

ahfoo (223186) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247910)

I'm not a pessimist about technology, but I'm disappointed in what has passed for technology since, say the 1960s. As they say --where's the flying cars damnit? It was supposed to be like radio, black and white TV, color TV, high speed Internet, holographic immersion, direct neural interface and beyond already. It's 2004! What happened? It's practically the same as the seventies.
You know, when the iMac counts as a technological breakthrough things are slow. No offense to the Mac lovers, but it was more of a design breaktrhough than anything. That's just one of many examples of that same thing where it's a new style as opposed to a radically new technology. Cars get this treatment all the time. The differnce between the new model and the old model is the freakin' plastic brake light reflectors. That's not an advance. That sucks.
The Internet itself is another example. Just because a series of factors made it seem to emerge suddenly, it isn't really the case that it happened suddenly at all. Mostly it was just a matter of merging rather dated defence research into the private sector. Same with a lot of chip designs. It's not really all that amazing or recent. It just took a long time to make it your way.
And as for CMOS process tecnologies and the whole Moore's Law thing. Give me a break, that was not and is not really about pusing the edge of technology as much as it was about markets being controlled by only a few players being able to afford to compete.
Immersion lithography which is part of what is making China so hot was experimented with decades ago and abandoned because it didn't fit the business plans of the likes of Intel or IBM at the time.
So, when I see this stuff about China being the new "technology research hotbed" it doesn't strike me as being all that meaningful. It's the new manufacturing center for chips. So what.
I mean besides CMOS chip technology which is already very, very mature its hard to point to real major technology that has been developed in the last forty years with any serious economic significance. Okay lasers, though for the most part just the small ones, have improved a lot and small motors are more reliable. Anything outside of IT though? Even MEMS is still mostly about IT. There's promises about ultra efficient fuel cells and nanotubes and such but there were promises forty years ago as well. They even had better promises back then. We're still building houses out of wooden sticks for crying out loud.

Technology outside of IT moves unbelievably slowly.
So, if China is where the chips are going to be made then naturally you'll have a lot of designers there making consumer products, but is that really a technology research hotbed? I'd call it more like a designer extravaganza.
I do hope it could be otherwise, but I don't know. Something tells me we're still going to have internal combustion autos a hundred years from now.
However, like I said, I'm not a pessimist. I think the revenge we will get is that we'll live incredibly long lives so we will eventually see the flying cars, space elevators and what-not. We'll just have to be very patient. All I expect out of China is cheaper PCs. As if they weren't cheap already.

One reason: scarcity of women. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10247927)

The "one child policy" coupled with the practice of killing females newborns and fetuses has created a scarcity of women to distract the males. With no women to be chasing, there's nothing to do but work.

Yes, but (1)

doombob (717921) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247938)

Yes, but does Microsoft Really NEED China? I don't think they do. I think with the average consumer (read: American), new features created from research in another country isn't going to matter in their operating system, other software on their computer, or the internet.

funny how I just read something relating to this (1)

xutopia (469129) | more than 10 years ago | (#10247943)

He speaks of China in there somewhere. Do a search but if you want read the whole thing. It's really interesting. http://www.operatingthetan.com/metameme.txt
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